Behind the Numbers: How Players Are Trying to Stand Out in the Commerce Media Universe
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Hey gang, it's Friday, April 11th. Sarah Ariel and listeners, welcome to Behind the Numbers, a new marketer video podcast. I'm Marcus. Today, we'll be discussing the latest moves in commerce media. Join me for that conversation. We have with us two people. Let's meet them. We start with our principal analyst who covers commerce media for us based in New York. It's Sarah Marzano. Hi, Marcus. Thanks for having me. Who hasn't been on the show in years, apparently. I'm waiting for this call.

Welcome back, Sarah. It's good to see you again. It's been like a week. Also joining us, one of our senior analysts who hasn't been on this show before, but is a staple in the Reimagining Retail show. She's also in the same city, same studio currently as Ariel Fager. Yeah, it's me. I'm here. Happy to be here. Hello. Today's fact.

Cleopatra lived closer in time to the first moon landing than to the construction of the Great Pyramid of Giza. I hate these types of facts, Marcus. Because they mess with my head. I'm like, what? How am I going to position that in my head, in my timeline? It was either this or it takes 12 honeybees...

a lifetime's worth of work to make one tablespoon of honey. Wow. And that felt sad. But now you've made me say it. Sorry. Can I share my own fun fact? Oh, yeah. I was going to tell you more about Cleopatra, but please go ahead. No, you go ahead. I said weigh in in this section, not hijack the section. No, I was hijacking it. Go on. I have nothing to add for Cleopatra. My fun fact is today is my mother's birthday and I wanted to say happy birthday to my mother. And yeah, thanks. Happy birthday, mom.

That's so good. So much better. But I've already did the research. I'm sorry. Please tell me more about Cleopatra. But happy birthday to Mrs. Ariel Sr. I don't know if that's her name. Mrs. Ariel Sr. Yeah, correct. So, yes, the pyramid was completed.

2,500? 2,500? I don't know how you say it. BCE. While Cleopatra ruled from 51 to 30 BCE. And she also wasn't Egyptian. Shut up. Yeah. Famously associated with ancient Egypt.

Cleopatra was of Macedonian Greek descent. She was actually the last ruler of the Macedonian Ptolemaic dynasty, the line of rule established in 323 BC following the death of Alexander the Great. Wow. Feels like a Mandela effect, you know, Cleopatra. Huh? Mandela effect? Do you know the Mandela effect? Nope.

Okay, well, it's this thing. So a lot of people believe that Nelson Mandela died when he was in jail, but that is not correct. He lived after that. And so it's called the Mandela effect when people misremember a part of

history or just anything like that. I think a good example is Berenstain Bears. It's spelled with an A-I-N instead of an E-I-N. Berenstain Bears. I think it's still pronounced the same, but anyway, Mandela Effect. Isn't that going to be applied to everything? Yes.

Okay. I feel like that's most people's lives. It's just misremembering. Yeah, but it is a fun, you know, coin term. I mean, we're all marketers here. We love to coin a term. We do. It's too much marketers. Calm down. Last thing I'll say, we've been going real long. I'm so sorry.

That's okay. It's half you, mainly Sarah. No, it's mainly me. I'd spent a lot of time on this, which I shouldn't have. It's not my real job. She was 18 when she became the queen and ruler of Egypt. Most folks at that age are like, I'm off to college to learn how to do laundry. Pray for me. A lot of pressure. Cleopatra was more like, you're now in charge of Egypt. Good luck with that. Wow. Anyway. Perspective. Today's real topic. An hour later. Commerce media. Commerce media.

All right, we're talking retail media. Retail media ad spending will reach $60 billion this year in the US, according to our estimates. Amazon's most of that.

might shock nobody. 76% to be specific of that money is Amazon. So they're kind of in charge of steering the ship, so to speak, on retail media. But Walmart has a significant slice, 8% all by themselves.

which leaves 16% for all other players, of which there are a lot. And we thought we'd start today's episode by talking about a few of the most interesting ones.

Sarah, I'll start with you. You're going to give us a couple, but I'll start with one. Which of these other guys, so to speak, are making some of the most interesting moves so far this year? Yeah, first of all, I love this topic. There are like 80-some-odd retail media networks operating in the United States, and that's according to research firm Mimby. And they're all sharing about 16% share of retail media ad spending. So it's fascinating to watch how these players are looking to

diversify their offerings in order to scale and succeed in a really competitive landscape. Is that share that's growing? Even slightly? The pie is growing, right? And the share is growing just ever so slightly as well. So they're sort of chipping away. So even though throughout the timeframe that we forecast out the individual retailers, even though we have Amazon set to continue commanding more than three quarters of the share, there are like

you know, tenths of percentage points shifting there, which is a lot when you think about, you know, we're dealing with like north of $60 billion. Yes. Right. And the dollars are still going up because the pie is getting bigger overall. Yeah. So, and I think this year has been really exciting. We had a flurry of retail media announcements starting with the CES conference this year. And one that caught my eye was Albertson's launching an API that enables their advertising partners to incorporate campaign results directly into their own measurement models.

So measurement is this really big pain point among advertisers when it comes to scaling their retail media spend, because right now there are not widely adapted standards for measurement metrics. And advertisers find it quite hard to compare the efficacy of their spend across multiple retail media networks.

which is one of the things that slows down advertiser adoption. So I loved this move from Albertsons because it's sort of specifically geared at a real concern that advertisers have and sort of addressing that in a way that sort of meets them where they already are. On the measurement side of things, I was going through your, so you've got your Commerce Media Trends Report 2025 report.

What are we expecting to happen in the world of measurement this year? Because I didn't see anything. I don't think you broke out measurement as one of the big milestones for this year, correct? Yeah, I mean, because measurement is something that we've been talking about for sort of quite some time within retail media. And there's been some important moves from sort of industry organizations towards setting the guidelines for what would make up industry retail media measurement standards. So the IAB finalized their guidelines

I believe it was last year, but it takes time for retailers to sort of digest those guidelines and sort of think through how they're going to adhere to them. I actually wrote an entire report on the state of measurement in Retail Media that published, I think, in January.

And there's a lot of nuances, right? There are some defendable reasons why retailers might measure certain metrics in a specific or customized way that reflects their own business model. And I think for retailers, they rightly don't want that to get lost in the shuffle if they are to adhere just really rigidly to standards.

So there's this sort of push-pull between standardization and transparency in order to help enable advertisers to make really informed decisions. I think we're seeing retail media networks take some...

different steps into their own hands. Like with this API, I think Albertsons is really, you know, not only looking at kind of the bigger trade industries like, you know, the IAB, but also, you know, what can we do on a smaller scale to help make measurement easier? They also, I believe, partnered with TransUnion to make media mix modeling a little bit more accessible, which I think is another thing. So we're seeing kind of these

partnerships start to appear with ad tech companies to help kind of maybe not necessarily make it more standardized across network to network, but help at least translate results from one campaign into kind of

a brand's own model. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's really important to mention that, like the thought of addressing these measurement challenges that advertisers are having is something that is going to be much more beneficial for that fragmented long tail of retail media networks than it is for the big guys who command so much share of ad spending already.

and maybe feel a little bit less pressure to adhere because the advertisers they work with are already so dependent on the results of those ad spending pieces. So I love all the work that Albertsons and some other companies are doing to really push this conversation forward because that's really what's going to solve

for a lot of this fragmentation. Totally agree. We'll throw a link in the show notes to your measurement, your retail media measurement report and also the trends one as well. So eMarketerPro plus folks can click those links and go straight to the reports for more detail on those. They're brilliant. Arielle. Wait, I have someone more than the same at Albertsons. I wasn't.

I wasn't done. Oh, you did? I thought you were going straight on to your next one. No, I'm talking about measurement, but I'm not done. Please. So one other thing I was going to mention is that Albertsons has a new VP of Media and Measurement, Liz Roche. And I read a fascinating interview with her that The Drum published in which she was talking about the possibility of Albertsons actually acquiring

media and publisher properties and sort of incorporating some of those spaces that right now exist on the open web in the form of off-site advertising into their owned and operated properties, which is, I think, such a smart sort of thing to be thinking about because a company like Albertsons is only going to get so far by monetizing their owned and operated channels. Grocery is still...

penetrated way deeper in terms of physical brick and mortar buying. And by moving off site in this way, Albertsons is able to better scale the value of their first party data. If they're actually acquiring these properties and incorporating them into their owned and operated portfolio, they're also able to avoid a lot of the challenges that come with moving off site, right? Things like brand safety and measurement and attribution getting harder are now sort of solved for as well as the margins they're able to earn.

So it's not something they've done yet, but I love the fact that they're sort of eyeing that as a next move. Yeah, that's really exciting. Did they mention who? They did not. Okay. Interesting, though. Ariel, who'd you have for us? Yeah, so kind of in the same, very similar vein in terms of what we were just talking about, the move on to...

Offsite Best Buy ads has launched something called Social Plus, which is basically helping brands to leverage Best Buy's first party data for social media campaigns. Right now, the tool is only available for

meta on Facebook and Instagram, but the plan is to expand to other social media networks in the future. And I think that this is just a really smart move because, you know, as we say, there is more movement into off-site, and I think being able to connect the data to the inventory is going to be, it just really helps keep things a lot more seamless. And, you know, being able to kind of

keep everything in one place helps with measurement. And I just think it's a it's a really smart move. And I'm curious to see kind of what other platforms it expands to in the future. Yeah, that's a good one. So we've got Albertsons, Best Buy. Sarah, what else do you have? Yeah, so I had DoorDash on my list as well. I feel like I talk maybe ad nauseum about the unique position that commerce marketplace intermediaries like sort of hold within the commerce media landscape. They are

typically sort of cross-industry, so they have visibility into multiple verticals. They have cross-merchant purchase data, but they also have really granular data, sort of down to a SKU level, which helps them bring value to their advertisers and really understand customer behavior. So I'm always keeping a close eye on them, and they had some announcements recently that caught my eye. The first is a rollout of a few new types of post-purchase ad inventory.

that are geared at the types of purchases they know customers make even after they complete a purchase on DoorDash. And what I like about it is that they're sort of integrating it into their service model. So it's something called Double Dash. And if you buy something off of one of these promoted slots, you're able, like within a certain amount of time, I presume, you're able to add them to your existing order for free.

And I think this is such a I've been fascinated by sort of the post purchase part of the purchase funnel for a long time. And I think it's a great opportunity for retailers of all types to get more utility out of their customer engagement. One of the things that we've seen a lot of retail media networks activate on in this space is by enabling non endemic advertisers to buy ads in these slots.

But I love that DoorDash is thinking through ways to keep customers in their own ecosystem during those moments where they know they have high engagement. Because presumably if you place an order on DoorDash, you're going to linger a little bit on that post-purchase confirmation page to see when your order is going to be delivered and sort of how that's going. So

So I loved that. And then the other piece that they announced sort of within this flurry of announcements is a partnership with a company called Top Sort that is going to open up the ability for DoorDash's advertisers to buy inventory on DoorDash as well as other retailers all within the same media buy. There weren't

announcements about specifically which retailers were going to be incorporated. But I think it's safe to assume that these are retailers maybe with smaller presences or don't have existing media networks of their own. The advantage to advertisers, of course, is being able to scale their ad buys in a really simple way.

And then the advantage to those retailers, right, is that they have access to that infrastructure and scale of demand in terms of advertisers that DoorDash is able to connect them to. It's like a little bundle. Yes. So nice. Yes. And I think that's an exciting way to sort of, again, address some of this fragmentation, right, and give everyone more options without making it a ton harder. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm also really interested in the post-purchase process because I think it's something a lot of retailers forget, not forget about, but something, yeah, it's a neglected space. And I think, you know, being able to like immediately retarget customers with really relevant offers or data or ads is just such a win. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Very nice. Arielle, one more from you. So I am really, really interested in what Dollar General Media Network is doing. So they have partnered with an experiential retail media platform, Recess. And so what they're doing is sampling outside the store within local communities.

So Recess works with local community members and they also work with retail media networks like Dollar General. And they are distributing samples at schools, at community events, anything that's kind of happening on that local level. And I think it's just such a wonderful opportunity to encourage trial outside of the store when, you know, sampling in the store is great. It's you're right there at the point of purchase.

But I think sometimes when you are in a different place, you might want to try something new. You might be, oh, your friend's trying it. I want to try it. So I just think that there's an element of in-person community that's really exciting. And then, you know, being able to also kind of

Use that to complement other you know retail like online in-store campaigns It's just like a really beautiful version of in-store retail media. I love exactly it So I'm just I'm super excited to see where this goes nice Aria wins that round Was it not a comfort no, did you know get it even we both win I

sure the audience knows whoa that's probably true uh what do these moves um and kind of retailer initiatives what are they telling us about the state of retail media is there kind of a common thread is there something that i mean we mentioned four there are a lot of others happening what's what is what does this all mean i think there's a common thread that sort of knits all

retail media networks that we just talked about together, which is this recognition that on-site advertising and on-site inventory, which are really have been the backbone of retail media ad spending, are inherently finite.

Right. You're sort of limited to the scale of your digital footprint as a as a retailer. And so I think more and more retail and commerce media networks are sort of recognizing we need to sort of think outside of the box of our on site digitally owned and operated inventory for how we're going to further scale our programs. And I think there's so much opportunity because

And the reason Amazon has been so dominant in the space is because retail media again has really revolved around those on-site ads. And Amazon has an e-commerce dominance that no retailers can even come close to matching. But when we think about retailers taking their really valuable data and activating that away from their websites,

in a way that still allows customers or sorry, advertisers to reach that retailer's customers and then understand the outcome. That's a really exciting proposition. And it's very cool to see all different types of commerce media networks and retailers sort of realizing this and sort of feeling out like what's the unique way I can sort of pursue this. Yeah. I think it also shows, you know, to put it in kind of dramatic terms, these smaller, you know, you know,

players are not going down with a fight. You know, they're willing to kind of try new things, try different ways to kind of make their offerings unique or more curated. So I think, you know, when we obviously talk about retail media, Amazon and Walmart, you

they're going to dominate because of a lot of the reasons we've already said. But I think that, you know, what these smaller networks can bring to the table are these like kind of unique, more experimental or, you know, kind of different ways to help solve pain points. Yeah. Yeah. There was a quote, Sarah, in your research

You said the Amazon retail media playbook is only repeatable to a point. Retailers have modeled on Amazon, but few can hope to achieve a similar scale by following the same steps, which I think sums up really nicely. Very true.

There was a recent presentation that you had put together and in it you wrote advertisers invest in three to five media networks on average. Is this number going up or down or staying the same and why? Yeah, so this was a fascinating new survey that Digiday conducted in partnership with Vantage.

retail media ad buyers across agencies as well as brands and when they asked those survey takers about how many retail media networks they invested in in 2024 they found that the sort of overwhelming answer was between three and five networks but when they asked the same group sort of what their future plans were they uncovered a couple

things that gave me a lot of reason to feel very optimistic, which is that not only were advertisers saying they were planning to spend more overall, but they were saying they were planning to spend across significantly more networks. So 65% of the survey respondents said that by the end of 2025, they were planning to spend between six to nine networks.

which is a significant jump over the three to five. And I think gives a lot of hope to that fragmented segment of the industry that we've sort of been talking about and alluding to. But I don't think that's going to come easily, right? I think that retailers are going to have to continue innovating and addressing advertisers' challenges because six to nine, let's face it, is still a quite small chunk of that 80 plus number that we

Yeah. And the other thing, which I don't mean to be the rain in the parade, but the other thing that I think is important to think about is,

They're not just competing. Retail media networks aren't just competing with retail media networks anymore. They're competing with commerce media, right? They're competing. I mean, everyone has, you know, launched something. You know, we've got everyone from Remax to Expedia to Chase launching media networks. And of course, they all do very different things. You know, we've all, you know, discussed kind of the strengths and weaknesses of each. But I think as...

advertisers think about, you know, exploring kind of a more holistic media portfolio, we might see the kind of share of retail media networks maybe lessen, possibly, and we might see a little more experimentation with, you know, financial media, travel media. But to Sarah's point, I mean, I think that, you know, it's

a really good sign that the advertisers really want to keep experimenting, to keep seeing what networks can offer them. So I think all in all, we're going to see an increase. But I do wonder about kind of the mix. No, I think you're absolutely right. And I would take it one step further because we've talked a few times in this episode about the growth of off-site. And I think as retail medium networks move off-site, they're going to find their competitive set is now not just their retail peers,

but it's going to be the likes of media giants, right? So, you know, entities like Google, entities like Meta. And retail media is really growing up as a format. And the consequence of that is that advertisers are going to start judging it as a more mature marketing activation, right? Advertisers' expectations are set by really sophisticated companies. And that's going to come for retail media, right? Where there's not the excuse anymore that this is an emerging channel. We're figuring things out, right?

So I think that's going to be fascinating to watch as well. Absolutely. Yeah, just because you move from three to five, from three to five networks to six to nine doesn't mean that they're just going to fall into your lap. You're still going to have to compete for those. And our Karen Jacobs had a really good quote. I thought it sums up nicely saying, quote, brands are becoming more selective about where they invest as the demands for better measurement, improved audience segmentation and clear visibility on ad performance rise. Attendees of this week's inaugural Commerce Media Brand Summit in Atlanta noted, close quotes.

Let's end with this, folks. Ariel, I'll start with you. Some of the main challenges slash top concerns for advertisers when it comes to retail media at the moment are what? I mean, we've mentioned it. It's no surprise. I would say measurement and standardization is pretty much one of the top issues. I think, you know, advertisers are squeezed and they've really just...

need to prove that the dollars they're putting in are worth the dollars they're getting out. So I think, you know, that's really going to impact how retail media networks kind of build out their offerings. Like I said, we're seeing kind of partnerships emerge for better measurement solutions. So I do think that that's a big challenge, but also a big opportunity. I like to kind of be, you know, glass half full in that way. There's definitely opportunity there. Very nice.

Sarah? Yeah, so I think like to Ariel's point, we've talked a lot about the top challenges and a lot of them have to do with just how difficult it is to scale retail media buys across more networks. In that same Digiday and Vantage survey, they asked the ad buyers who were taking the survey about their biggest challenges when it came to

buying and scaling their retail media strategy. And I think what was fascinating as I reviewed those survey results is that I wasn't remotely surprised by the top challenges, right? They're things that I think as an industry we're recognizing and maybe finally coming around to addressing in a really meaningful way. But I think what really stood out to me was where ad buyers were saying they weren't struggling really clearly. So I have a few of those sort of written down to review.

because I thought they were fascinating. Fewer than two in 10 brand marketers said that they struggled with a lack of leadership or internal buy-in behind retail media efforts.

And fewer than 1 in 10 said that retail media had an unclear value proposition. And when advertisers were asked about whether they felt overwhelmed by the abundance of choice in the market, just 3% of them said that that was like a really meaningful challenge to their strategy, right? And so I think for me, it paints this really clear picture of ad buyers that feel actually sort of

all in on retail media, but are just begging us to make it easier for them to buy it and scale those buys across more networks and report on it and understand it. So there's this sort of really clear call to action that only the retail and commerce media networks can answer. Yeah. Yeah. Very nice. Well, that is all we have time for for today's episode. Unfortunately, that's where we'll leave it. Thank you so much to my guests. Thank you first to Aria. Thank you so much for having me. Yes, indeed. Thank you, Sarah. Thanks for having me. I missed you guys.

We'll give it a while. We'll see Sarah in 2026. Thanks to the whole editing crew, Victoria, John, Lance and Danny. Stuart runs the team and Sophie who does our, what she do, social media is what she does. Thanks to everyone for listening into Behind the Numbers show and eMarketer video podcast. We'll be back on Monday discussing the explosion of sports for brand engagement. Happiest of weekends.