Behind the Numbers: The Explosion of Sports for Brand Engagement with Nielsen’s Vice President of Inclusive Insights
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Hey gang, it's Monday, April 14th. Paul, Paola, Charlene and listeners, welcome to Behind the Numbers, an eMarketer video podcast made possible by Connective Media by United Airlines. I'm Marcus. Join me for today's conversation we have with us. Three people, let's meet them. We start with our analyst covering demographics based in New York. It's Paola Flores Marquez. Hi Marcus. Hello everyone.

Hello there. We also have our VP of content living up there in Maine, Paul Verner. Great to be here. Thanks for having me. We also have with us the VP of Inclusive Insights at Nielsen. Based in Maryland, it's Charlene Polite-Cawley. Hey, everybody. How's it going? Hello. Very good. Very good. Welcome to the show. So when external guests are on, we quickly get to know them with a speed intro.

60 seconds on the clock. Let's do it. Three questions. Charlene, you are based in Maryland, as you mentioned, but where are you from? I am from a one light town down south called Hollister, Florida.

oh cool very nice um how long were you there how long have you been in maryland oh my gosh i've been in maryland now since 2013 um yeah a couple different states but love it here shout out pg county very nice very nice um paula are you from there no i lived in silver spring for like six years yeah it was great i miss it yeah very nice paul probably lived there at some point

Paul's like a thousand years old. You've had that a million times. - I am. You can just tell by looking at me. But yeah, I've been around a bit. - What'd you do in a sentence, Charlene? - In a sentence, I use Nielsen data to center historically excluded audiences and highlight the growth opportunities

for players across the media industry based on really not just reaching us, but connecting through content, through campaign and messaging and really tapping into identity, how that can drive loyalty and engagement and all the things we need to continue to make businesses grow. Very good. Final question here, because we're talking some sports today. Favorite sport to play growing up? And as you were saying before we recorded the recording, I'm assuming that you've played sports and or were decent.

I did participate in sport. I don't know if you would call it being very good. My answer to the question is baseball. My family's going to think that is hilarious because fun fact, when I was a T-ball center fielder, actually took a book into the outfield and just stood with my glove in the air and read a book while I was playing. So did no one, was no one like, where are you going with that? They just let,

they just let the game continue? No they did not. There was definitely intervention but like a big baseball family my older brother went on scholarship to you know it just it was yeah. It's a great it's a great idea though. I am a cheerleader and scorekeeper however I will hype you up for days.

Also, Charlene, it seems like you were combining academics and sports and analytics. True student-athlete. Right from the get-go. Right. Those who cannot do, I think there's something in there about those who cannot do research. That's part of my life. That's our way of life here at Marketer.

But super competitive, love to talk the facts and the stats and again, how it impacts culture and just kind of brings so many different kinds of people together. But yeah, love some baseball. Very nice. Paola, how about you? I also read a lot of books as a child. It's my favorite thing to do. But I did do kickboxing for a really long time. My dad is a natural athlete. And so he's like, you got to do one sport, at least one. And it has to be consistent. Yeah.

And so, yeah, I still think about how I uppercut a kid so badly one time and I still feel bad about it like decades later. And Joe, if you're sorry, if you're out there, I'm so sorry. So bad. Oh, Joe. I know he's probably like, finally, an apology. Yeah. He's been watching for years. Paul, how about you?

Well, being a southerner from the real South, as in South America, of course, I grew up playing football, a.k.a. soccer. Very nice. Very nice. He reminds me about it, that they won, Argentina won the World Cup daily. Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that, Marcus, because I haven't actually mentioned it in a while.

You have an opportunity for redemption coming soon. I know. I know. Thank you. It's very optimistic of you, but we probably will probably lose. Today's fact. Let's get on with that real quick. Major sports championships by North American City. So I thought this was quite fitting. And then so it's a great article and it's very interesting. But I realized that they're including it's a visual capitalist article and they're including sports.

a lot of different sports which folks might not include as the major sports if you think major sports in America you're normally going with um the uh the MLB the NFL uh NBA NHL they're including um the AAFC the AFL um we've got the ABA is counted in here the Grey Cup

Winners Canada, I've never heard of it. I'm sorry. But that's the thing. So they're including a lot here. New York has the most, though. 65, about 40% of those are from the Yankees.

The city has won at least one championship in every major league. They're kind of cheating. They have two teams in every major sport for the men. So that's kind of cheating. But Toronto is second. Shout out Canada. 13 from hockey. Most a ton from the CFL, which no offense, Canada. I don't know if that counts. And then Boston is third with two fewer championships than Toronto. But this is for, these are all for men's sports for the women's sports.

I mean, if you count in college, you probably go in. Where's where? Where do you come play Hartford? Yeah, I think you got to go with that one. Right. If we're talking women's basketball. Yeah, it has to be. Yeah.

Then maybe somewhere in Tennessee, maybe after that? Maybe South Carolina and Tennessee as well. Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, which is quite fitting because we're talking NCAA today, the men's and women's basketball tournaments, how they did. We'll talk about some viewership.

uh, numbers. We'll talk about how, uh, women's sports has exploded. Uh, and if that's been a sustainable, uh, because of the Caitlin Clark effect, uh, last year, and we'll talk about some of the demographics that are driving all that engagement. Uh, today's episode, all about the explosion of sports for brand engagement. All right, folks. Um,

let's get into it we've got Nielsen here which is amazing because uh you guys track very closely uh the viewership the numbers of the March Madness uh basketball tournament and it just finished uh congratulations to who beat so was it Florida who beat South Carolina uh UConn took it from South Carolina for the women's tournament Paige Beckers okay very good yes and then Florida on the men's side

On the men's side, go Gators. They are back on top for the men. And so another great showing for the conclusion of the men's tournament. Very good. Let's talk some numbers. Let's go men's first because after the women's, I want to get into some other stuff. So let's go men's first. How...

was viewership this year? Starting with the men, a great showing. Again, Go Gators coming out on top after four number one seeds took to the tournament. And like you said, the Florida and Houston game really showed out with it was up 22 percent compared to last year with over 18 million fans tuning in.

Wow. That is a market increase. About 15 million last year, close to 80. So you said about 18 this year for the men. That is quite a significant jump and quite surprising because they're not big. Sorry, Houston or Florida, if you are. But they're not, you know, the typical kind of basketball schools, you know, Duke or UConn. They're not the kind of big program. So I'm surprised that those numbers were so high.

Yeah, well, remember, again, the fandom around these schools and colleges in general. Florida has actually taken that tournament a few times. It's been a while. Oh, OK. But Gainesville, it has a little bit of a Titletown reputation. So I'm sure all the Gator fans are happy to be back on top. But I think, you know, part of what makes the entire March Madness culture special

so empowering. It's not just about the viewership. A lot of times it's about the storytelling that drives the viewership and getting to that final. And I think both of these teams had such really fascinating stories around their programs that also drove a lot of engagement to show up and see who was going to come out on top. Okay. Probably helped too, that incredible comeback by Houston against Duke. Yes. And then by Florida against Houston in the fight. Like, I think that sets up even more interest for,

Not probably on a regional fandom level because those fans are going to tune in no matter what. But just in terms of the attention and people wanting to, you know,

see what happens next. I, yeah, I was at a, at a bar on Saturday. I was at a dance party, a Taylor Swift dance party. I wasn't, I am not a safety, but my friends are. And so we were there, we were dancing and, uh, they had the game. Oh, there was like, they had the game on the big screen and there was like a bunch of like guys just sitting there watching it. And,

all of the girls dancing stopped to watch Houston come back and the whole crowd went wild. And yeah, one of my friends was like, yeah, I'm not, I didn't go to Houston, but my, I like, my school is the arch rival of Duke. So by default, I'm like rooting for Houston. It was exciting. It was great. Okay. I guess the men's game as well. Um, it does see, I said, Duke kind of says, um, was it North, North Carolina, Kansas,

I think of those as the big schools and the ones that win over time. And it's probably because of Mike Krzyzewski and some major coaches, but they don't. I remember looking back. So men's college basketball in the last 20 years, it's quite a range of teams that have won. UConn five times. This is, I maybe did this a year or two ago, so I might've missed the most recent championships, but UConn five, North Carolina three, Villanova two, Kansas, Duke, Florida. They all have two, Louisville, Kentucky, Baylor, Virginia all have one. On the women's side, it's,

It's dominated by a few teams. In the last 20 years, UConn 7, South Carolina 3, Tennessee 2. The last 30 years...

UConn 11, Tennessee 5, South Carolina 3. So they win. Those three schools win more than half the time. So women's is dominated by a few programs. What was viewership like on the women's side? Yeah. So again, talk about the storytelling. I think there's been so much momentum in the last several years around the women's game as they continue to just expand access to be a fan, right? We've only been in an official March Madness era for the women's game for the last few years. But I think

one of the biggest takeaways from this year's performance really is that last year with the Caitlin Clark effect was just so impressive. But this year still is breaking records. So the final or on the road to the final, there was a lot of

second and third most ever across the tournament. So ESPN said four of the top 10 Elite Eight games to ever air were placed this year. And then you have stories from Juju, Paige, Flage, Malaysia, and AZ. So many stars and their stories all across the tournament to watch. And I think that just helped fuel consistent fanship showing up. And so they had the second most watched Elite Eight ever, averaging about...

2.9 million viewers and then showing up to the final with over 8 million viewers and I think it peaked at 9.8 million. So again, I think the overall theme here for me is that there is still

so much growth available for women's collegiate ball and professional. There's a lot more access to the games and we're seeing that the fan base is consistently showing up to that. But it also shows how many fans of Caitlin Clark showed up last year as well. Yes, but it sounds like that number has gone down, but it hasn't gone down past the year before.

And so, yeah, it's a staircase growth, but with a few years or one year of an anomaly jump. Yeah. So if we call last year an outlier, so to speak, and so there was a lot of comparison between this year's tournament and like 2023, the games were up, I think about 34%, the networks were saying. So still showing, you know, increasing,

growth in the right direction or movement in the right direction, if you will. And I think as continue again, it's a lot of it is about access, not just to the games themselves, but the storytelling around the players, the programs. There has been a lot of, to your point, dominance around certain schools taking the tournament. And I do think that those are elements that we haven't fully kind of examined where you've had LSU show up recently.

You've had a lot of Cinderella's comeback stories and, you know, programs for the first time. I think it was UCLA's first time to the dance. So there's a lot more folks who are breaking through and the strength of programs across more than just a few schools. Yeah.

And there are just a lot of numbers that suggest things are going in the right direction, right? This is just one number, one tournament. There are a few other ones I found. Deloitte expecting global revenue for women's sports to reach $2.3 billion this year. That's up from about $700 million.

three years ago uh collective and rbc found tv viewership for women's sports expected to grow 32 for the wmba 24 for the for professional soccer for women by 2027 and that's the other thing the caitlin clark effect um and angel reese as well coming through and them joining um

the WNBA that gave WNBA a bump as well a huge bump I think over 200% the 2024 WNBA regular season grew to 200% versus the year before that so it's now close to a

million people in terms of average audience per game. It was closer to three, four hundred thousand the year before. So you've seen that carry through. Yeah. And another add on to the W's growth is we've also just come off the first season of Unrivaled. And so seeing their first time out as a three on three league really show up with consistent amount of viewership. I think they averaged over 300 viewers across their games, record compensation for the athletes and broke even.

which is like unheard of for a new league in their initial season. So I think another part of this for me is I look at these viewership numbers that are technically down from last year, which, you know, that's the math. But I think what it's still pointing to is like, again, the access.

There's actually a lot of competing places to see and engage with women's basketball in particular. And so following like, hey, if I'm an Angel Reese fan and she's not in this tournament, I'm tapped into what's coming ahead in the WNBA season or her coming off a winning unrivaled

season. There's just so much more ways to engage and tap in. And then the other way to look at it too, again, as we try to kind of make sense of what happened this year, but we saw the same matchup with UConn in South Carolina a couple of years ago, the audience numbers are up 75% compared to that same matchup in 2022. So again, the momentum is going in the right direction.

Yeah. And the ad dollars too, this number, really impressive. ESPN seeing ad sales for women's college basketball tournament nearly 200% higher.

higher than last year. Um, it's just a remarkable figure. Um, we talk about basketball, um, but there is mentioning there, there are a ton of other sports as well, um, that are seeing a lot of growth. Uh, Jeremy Goldman, who writes for our briefing was noting, um, the college, college volleyball, women's college volleyball, uh, women's gymnastics, NCAA, women's college lacrosse as well, and making some great points as to why these are great, um,

places to put your ads, not just going to the bigger audiences of basketball and soccer with women, but saying they're less cluttered and environments than mainstream sports. They're highly engaged, passionate fans. They're lower cost entry points. They're seasonal complement to some of those major sports like basketball or soccer for women and growth potential tied to Olympics exposure as well, which leads me to this next point, which is

you know, there are so many other sports that people are watching on the women's side. Um, LG had some numbers. Um, Olympics is the most watched sport for female athletes, about 32% according to their numbers. Uh, then you've got pro basketball, college basketball, uh, and a close kind of second place tennis as well. But then you've got hockey, auto racing, golf, uh, baseball, softball. So there, there are just a ton of opportunities here. How, how have you as a women's sports different, um,

than viewers of men's sports and also the same. I think Jeremy summarized it pretty well, right? That it's like incredibly passionate group that's already like invested. I'm like, can I say misogyny on the podcast? I feel like that plays a huge role in it, right? Like I think it's people who are willing to like set aside their prejudices about how women are- Change their views. Yeah, yeah. About how women are expected to perform or should perform.

I think the Caitlyn Crollick effect is so interesting because it really speaks to this level of appreciation for talent. It just, it's, I think it's unfortunate that it takes like something so, I don't know, individual or like outstanding to make people pay attention because women like that exist all the time, right? Like the women's, like the USA women's soccer team is always kicking butt, like constantly, consistently. The way that the men's does not. So it's like- Same with English football as well. Yeah. Yeah.

So I do think that plays like a really, really good role. Not a word, Paul. I know you're going to say something about Argentina winning. My lips are sealed. I could just feel it.

It's a great point though. Please, Charlene. No, I was just going to jump in there. And I think you are so right around part for me, part of the Caitlin Clark effect is also the divine timing about the era that she showed up in because, you know, there have certainly been those generational players before, but between social media, but between the change in access and games, you know, the rivalry element and just the amount of conversation around it. But,

really the zeitgeist was just there. And I think had a different era of a couple of players had that same coverage, we may have also had a breakthrough moment. So it was a combination of her incredible talent with an incredible rivalry narrative, with an incredible media coverage across platforms. And so all of that kind of sparking the fire that we're continuing to see. And so I completely agree with your number around the global opportunity for investment.

What's interesting that I'm also watching, too, is how college continues to be a launchpad into professional so people can continue to support female athletes and their sport. In addition to Unrivaled, there's also a new women's pro soccer league that has launched in the U.S., new pro softball league that has launched.

So there's now places for these athletes to land. So you can actually, thanks to the NIL era, they can get compensation in their college era and then go into a professional career that audience can grow along with them. So we're excited to see how that continues to grow. But as I like to say, if you're just now paying attention to the WNBA, the price of the bag has gone up.

And so you might need a different price point. And fortunately, there's a lot of options for brands to choose from. And what we've seen is actually, to Powell's point, the payoff for not just fan loyalty, but brand loyalty. When you show up and support those leagues and stars and teams that fans care about, our data actually shows that they're more likely to be an advocate for your brand, to make a purchase, to engage.

We've seen that heavily with women's basketball. And, you know, it's interesting that, you know, there's just so many opportunities now. And I think sports will continue to be one of the safest places for brands to show up, but also to really demonstrate their values because they just bring everybody together, so many different cross-sections of life. Yeah.

I was reading a Nielsen article actually from this from last summer, and he was saying exactly what you're saying. The WNBA fans much more likely to engage with the brand online, talk about the brand with friends and family and actually make purchases as well.

I think audiences are really responding to empowerment and very, very strong figures in women's sports, whether it's Serena Williams or Simone Biles, or now you have Alona Amir, the U.S. women's rugby player, just totally stirring things up in Europe. And in general, I think there's a sense of

these very powerful women are resonating with audiences, even when they're showing vulnerability, which is something that is a very slippery slope in the male-dominated sports culture that we all live in. But I think that goes along with the

The team loyalty, the brand loyalty, it's just inspiration from these amazing stories and how women have to balance a lot more things to be successful in really any field, but definitely in sports.

Yeah, so true. I did not know that I was a rugby fan until I came across Alona's TikTok feed. And I was like, now I'm a rugby person. Don't ask me any rules, but I know about her. And I'm sure a lot of people who may not be huge basketball fans were swept up by the Caitlin Clark, Angel Reese effect and are continuing to do that. I think it also raises a lot of really interesting questions

tangential questions, right? Like when we talk about mental health too, and Simone Bialin's taking that break a couple of years ago, like, um, and was it Naomi Osaka? Um, yeah, as well. And I remember I was in conversations with people who follow sports regularly and I had older, uh,

sports fans being like, well, you're an athlete. They're paying you to just stick it out. This is your job, blah, blah, blah. And like younger people in the conversation being like, no, like they are human beings who are like, you know, we should respect that they have limits and like they cannot perform at their best if they're not taking care of themselves.

Absolutely. And it's been so interesting, particularly around Simone Biles and the conversation between her and Dominique Dawes and the difference in their experience where they were, you know, I remember the Carrie Strug incident where everybody celebrated the one foot landing that she did to get the gold and whatever. It's like, that's probably not...

the best, the way that we should have celebrated. So again, through sport, especially when you think about Black culture and Black communities, specifically to see these Black women saying, you know what, I need to rest. I need to take care of myself first. And then I can come and perform at my best. And if there's ever a case study in doing that, I mean, Simone coming back and dominating in last year's Olympics is proof that that is okay. And I love how one of the magics of sport to me is a

ability to really have some of those conversations, but to model that behavior and healthy behaviors at that. Just speaking of, again, the cultural connection and impact, our latest Nielsen Diverse Intelligence Series report around Black audiences showed the

Not just for black sports super fans to show up for the game, but we over index in the sports commentary. So I want to I want to tune into the game, but I also want to tune into the conversation around the game. And so that makes how we talk about the athletes, how we position, you know, women as caddy or whatever, and not just competitive. Those narratives really matter. And folks are tuning in and paying attention.

And so our data actually supports that the commentary around the game, the coverage and the storytelling around the game can be just as important as the live event itself. I think Yuga reports that like younger age groups are reporting that top sports, sports is not in their top interest at a lesser rate than like older age groups.

But they're much more engaged with it in social media and like getting it through other digital channels. So to just echo Charlene's point about there are so many different avenues through which not just to reach these sports fans, but like people who are just scrolling through their feeds, right? And like they will get invested in it if they know the general story. Like I was a thousand percent more invested in like Houston winning once I heard my friend, like my friend's little chains, transitive property issues. So I think, yes, that is just echoing the level of like...

uh opportunity there yeah yeah that's an excellent point um i want to end just by mentioning this because i thought these numbers are really important it kind of speaks to that the stereotype of you know men watch men play sports and women watch women play sports nielsen these numbers are from nielsen uh global fans of women's sports uh 43 percent of women's sports fans are male mm-hmm

And then this other number from a Forbes article from Brad Adgate, overall, the performances of female Olympics and Paralympics athletes in 2024 inspired over 40% of boys. And so, you know, it just, I just think these are really good figures to explain the crossover of men being inspired by women, by women athletes, female athletes and vice versa as well. And also being inspired by and watching. And yeah, yeah.

things are really changing and it seems like that momentum is, has absolutely kept up, um, from what we've seen from Caitlin Clark and Paul, you mentioned, uh, you know, a host of other female athletes as well. Uh, that's what we've got time for, for this episode. Thank you so, so much to my guests, uh, for talking with me today. Brilliant, brilliant episode. Thank you so much to Paula. Thank you so much, Marcus. Thank you, Paul.

Thank you. And thank you to Charlene. Thank you so much for having me. It's an absolute pleasure. Thank you to the whole editing crew, Victoria, John Lance, and Danny, Stuart who runs the team. So if he does our social media, thanks to everyone for listening to Behind the Numbers, an e-marketer video podcast made possible by Connective Media by United Airlines. Sarah will be back on Wednesday for the Reimagining Retail Show talking about the French department store that's trying to change US retail. ♪