Alexander Skarsgard — on imposter syndrome and channeling a kinky gay biker
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Today on the show, you know him from True Blood, Big Little Lies, Succession, and as the star of the new Apple+ show Murderbot, it's Alexander Skarsgard. They start this BDSM/subdom relationship, and it's a love story, but it's also kinky and weird and... I don't know. They had me at BDSM. Yeah! You had me at BDSM. This is Dinners on Me, and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson.

So I have never met Alexander Skarsgard, but I have been a big fan of his for quite some time. I loved him on Succession, on Big Little Lies, but I was really impressed by his new TV show, Murderbot, which I just started watching. In Murderbot, Skarsgard plays a self-aware security android who has hacked into his own programming to gain free will.

It's so weird and strange and bizarre and funny and fresh and new. It blends sci-fi action with workplace comedy somehow. I don't know how they do it. It's miraculous. It has a great cast and, of course, Skarsgård in the middle of all that. He's an Emmy and Golden Globe award-winning actor for his role on Big Little Lies, which was also such a surprise performance for me.

He was incredible in Succession. I mean, one of the greatest TV shows of all time. He comes from this iconic filmmaking family, which I'm so excited to talk with him about. I'm so excited that he's in London while I'm here. He's passing through. He's doing press for Murderbot. And I'm grabbing him, I believe, before he hops on an airplane to go off to someplace else. And so I suggested we go to this restaurant, Boca de Lupo, which apparently he's also a really big fan of.

Bocca del Lupo is like a love letter to Italy. It's loud and it's joyful. It's carb loaded in the best ways. It's tucked away in Soho, which is the neighborhood that I usually would always stay in when I was traveling to London as a tourist. So I know this neighborhood pretty well. It has one of those perfect marble bar countertops for having dinner for one at or eavesdropping on conversations over espresso martinis.

I love this place. Alexander's dad apparently also really loves this place and he's a regular here. So I think he's just on his way around the corner. Hello. Hi. I heard your voice before I saw you. That is a very recognizable. Do you live here? No, I live in Stockholm. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Moved from New York to Stockholm two years ago. You did. I assume you love that.

Yeah, I was born there in my entire family. So I left for the States about 20 years ago. Yeah. And then I've been obviously like popping home to see friends and family as often as I can, but I haven't had a base there since the early 2000s. And it was just...

It was time. I was ready to kind of relocate and have my base back home. What's it like going back to Stockholm with a career under your belt now? And it must be different 20 years later. Yeah, but also not really. We still kind of... My two brothers live in the apartment we grew up in. They split that into two apartments. Oh, no way. So they live there with their families, and my dad is a block away. My other brother is a block away. So everyone lives in like...

in Södermalm in South Stockholm, pretty much, yeah, where I grew up. So I love it because it feels like coming, I mean, it is coming home, but in my heart, it feels like coming home. I'm landing there and I'm just like walking around the streets where I grew up and like my childhood friends still live in that neighborhood. So it's like, it really is. Yeah. And you went to a military school, right? Yeah.

Not a school, but I was in the military. Okay. Yeah, in Sweden. And this was after you had been acting for a while in Sweden, right? Well, not really. I did a couple of things when I was a kid, but with no intention of ever becoming an actor. It wasn't like I was...

a child actor in the kind of the Hollywood sense of like, oh, here's my agent and here's my headshot and I can tap dance. It was like my dad's friend was a director and needed a seven-year-old kid for his movie and I happened to be around and he's like, hey, do you want to do this? And I had no idea what I was talking about. I was like, yeah, sure. And then I did that and then that led to something. So I did the occasional film or television job between like seven and 13. And then

I quit when I was 13 and was just, I wanted to be like focused on. Retired. I retired as a 13 year old. I felt like I'd done it all. I've proven myself. Yeah. Yeah. Hello, good afternoon. Hey, how are you? Very good to see you. I'm good, how about you? I'm very good, thank you. You've got some bread and focaccia. Thank you. Thank you. Are we going to have some water to begin your meal with?

I would love some sparkling water. Yeah, I'd do the sparkling too. Thank you. Are you hungry? Yeah, I'm hungry. I'll eat. Are you on a diet? No, absolutely not. No, no. Are you in the middle of a press day today? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we've done... It's been kind of a whirlwind of... I was in New York last week for Murderbot Press, and then...

Went to Cannes for three days. Yes. Oh, I know. I saw the boots. High thigh boots. These thigh high boots that you were wearing. Yeah. They were fantastic. Oh, thank you. You made quite a splash. I mean, my husband sent me the Instagram post. He's like, will you please talk to him about these? Yeah. Kinky fisherman. Yeah. Yeah. Is that what you called it? Yeah. Yeah.

I loved it. I've never seen anyone pull that off. Yeah, I think we're ready. He came at a great time because he was just having to talk about thigh-high boots. I'm going to have... You go first. You go first. I'll do the Seabream Carpaccio. And then the...

the entree size the big one spaghetti with spider crab and a large spaghetti with the crown yeah beautiful yeah sounds good like a good plan thank you very much you're welcome i'm gonna do the octopus tomato celery basil salad and the ravioli

with butter and sage. Beautiful. Would you like any side dish or a salad on the side, maybe with your pastas? We got the salads on the bottom here. We got the lettuce. Or maybe some of the asparagus, the grilled asparagus. Yeah, quite nice. Lovely. Your pee is going to smell so bad. I know. On the airplane, people are going to love that. All right.

I think asparagus is good for me. I don't need salad salad. And in case you like any wine, piri, or something, I'll send you so many other things. Thank you very much. Enjoy your meal. Thank you so much. Buon appetito. Is it fun? I've been to other film festivals, but what's different? I feel like Cannes is like, I mean, it's a whole other thing. I mean, it's like a really fancy affair. It was the first time I had a movie there. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, well...

I've been in a movie that premiered at Cannes, Lars von Trier's Melancholia. But I was shooting True Blood in L.A. at the time and they couldn't get me out, so I missed it. So this was the first time I was there with the movie.

I was there like years ago with some friends during the festival, but had no business being there really. You were festival crashers? We were festival crashers. Yeah, we were able to kind of through a friend of a friend of a friend get into like a big Lord of the Rings party. And this was like back in the day when they would spend like, you know, $3 million on a party. So they turned like an old...

up in the hills into Middle Earth. It was incredible. But yeah, again, I had no business being there at all, really. So this was my first experience to be there with a film. Yeah, it was extraordinary. This is the festival I feel like anytime something premieres there, we get a timed standing ovation. Yeah.

Like, this movie received an 18-minute standing ovation. I find that so ridiculous. It's so weird. Because it's also, like, most of the people in the room... It's a combination, obviously, of people that aren't associated with the film. But a lot of people in the room, you know, worked on the film. They know someone who worked on the film. So, like...

quite mediocre film can get a really... Yeah. So, like, if I ran a studio, I would be like, I'd pay 20 people to be like, you know what? Go to this and then just stand and keep going for 25 minutes. Just keep going. Can you imagine?

I mean, people will be feel awkward and they can be like, I can't stop whenever like these 20 people are screaming and clapping. So, all right, great. I mean, if someone was clapping for anything for 20 minutes, I'd be like, what's wrong with you? Yeah. We have to stop. No, I mean, there's a life to live, but that to kind of gauge how good a movie is by that is that it feels very, very off. Cause it's, you know, I, it's just a little sidebar about just that type of behavior. You know, I'm on stage now here in London and like, I've, I've,

done theater a lot in New York. And I feel like in America, people stand for everything. They love to applaud. They feel like if they've gone and they need to show that they've spent their money well and they need to applaud and they need to stand up. And standing ovations sort of, I guess, even though you're upset when you don't get one, they kind of stop meaning something. It doesn't feel genuine. And here, I feel like the Brits really...

It's not that they refuse to stand, but they really won't do it unless they want to. And our show, the show that I'm doing right now, is very polarizing. It's surrealist. It's abstract. It's strange. Some people really love it. Some people really hate it. And I have seen people in the front row...

stay in their seats while everyone stands around them or like pockets of people stand around them and they're like, nope, I'm staying. I'll clap. Like, I know you worked really hard, but I am not standing up. And I kind of love that. Have you seen people leave? Some people have left at intermission. I don't think anyone's left during the show. But I think I've seen, I've come back and seen some seats empty. But most people...

Why? I mean, I kind of love that it's like polarizing and it's pushing the boundary and like, you know, I don't know. I like that it's causing people to feel uncomfortable. Yeah. I remember I did, I think it was Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf in Stockholm 20 years ago.

one of my first jobs and definitely one of my first theater jobs and did you you did that play yeah okay so you play as nick the the kid what's the guy's name nick and honey yeah yeah i think it was a pretty decent production i think so i mean this was a long time ago but i remember like being a young very insecure actor and

One night, like someone saw two, like a couple whisper to each other and you could tell like they were just like, should we, should we not? Should we, should? And then they like started getting up and it was enduring intermission. It was like, as we were trying to like, I had like had this moment and they snuck out and that kind of just crushed me. Like my self-confidence, I was like, oh man.

Yeah, it's hard. Yeah, it's hard. Yeah, if someone's like in the front row, you know, with their arms crossed and not feeling it, like all my energy goes, like all my focus goes to that person. Everyone else could be having a great time, but for some reason, like how do I win over that guy? Yeah. I'm a people pleaser. But does that give you, does that crush you or do you go the other way? Because that person is still in the room, so you can still win him or her over. So that could also go in a different direction where he gives you more energy to be like, you know what?

You're bored, but I'm going to... I'm going to try harder. I'm going to entertain you, my friend. By the end of the night, you're going to be standing screaming. Nothing's better than an actor pushing for someone's approval. Yeah. You know? The desperation. No, I mean, it's just... I have a pretty thick skin with that stuff just because you have to be if you're going to be on stage. But did you always, even when you started out, when you first started out? I've gotten better at it. I think I used to let it really upset me. I remember I was doing this show...

about a spelling bee on Broadway. It's called the 25th Annual Putnam County Spelling Bee. And Jason Schwartzman came to see the show. And he's just like, I think, programmed to like be like very stoic. And like almost like a garden gnome, like just like no expression at all. And he sat in the front row and he was, I mean, he's also famous. And like I knew who he was. So we all were like kind of looking, checking in on him. And he was just like not giving us anything.

And we started to get the giggles about it because it was like, how do we make Jason Schwartzman smile? And so we were all trying really hard. And, you know, he ended up loving the show and, like, actually giving us a standing ovation. Oh, really? I think he sent a note back afterwards and saying how much he loved it. But it just, like, goes to show, like, you know, we can't judge people on how they're enjoying something. Like, maybe that just was him. Like, he was internally laughing hysterically.

You know? You can't hear smiles, Alexander. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Alexander tells me about befriending a BDSM biker gang and how he relates to his robot character on his new Apple TV Plus series, Murderbot. Okay, be right back.

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You know, back when Modern Family ended, I was suddenly managing my own projects. One of those things I was also trying to manage was my calendar. So I will double book something so fast, don't even test me. There are times when I actually literally had recordings for this podcast, and then I would like double book a lunch with someone on the other side of town, or like forget to pick up my kids. I didn't forget. I just, you know, put it in my calendar that I was supposed to pick up the kids. They got picked up, don't worry. Okay.

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So anyway, how was it being at camp with the film? Now, let me tell you about the standing ovation we got and how sincere it was.

How many minutes we got. Yeah, yeah. No, it was incredibly special, and it was definitely very memorable and an experience I'll never forget. The film I was there with is called Pillion, and it's one of those low-budget films by a first-time filmmaker that I was just lucky to find. Sometimes when you have incoming offers, they're projects that your agents aren't really interested in.

haven't read or are that familiar with. And this was one of them that came, was like, hey, here's a bunch of things. And so it was like five scripts attached to one email. And I remember like glancing over the others and it was just nothing that piqued my interest. And then at the end of it was pillioned by this like Harry Lighten. I'd never heard of him, but it was something about the log line. It sounded so, because it was like, oh, there's like wallflower,

named Colin goes to the local pub and meets Ray and who's there with this like motorcycle gang and they start this like BDSM sub-dom relationship and it's like a love story but it's also like kinky and weird and I don't know they had me at BDSM yeah you had me at BDSM I was just like

I was hooked. It was just such an unconventional love story. It was funny, but also genuine and heartfelt and sweet. And then...

let's begin here thank you thank you you're welcome there you go the sebring carpaccio rosemary oil and orange zest beautiful thank you thank you very nice so pretty yeah um that's how i got involved i i was like i want to talk to this guy harry and he was at the time like 30 years old and had done a short film called ren boys

that I then watched and was really impressed by. And I was really impressed by him and his approach, his vision for the movie. And so that's how I got involved. And we shot it here in London last year and it was just the most fun, incredible experience we had. So the rest of the bikers were from GBMCC, Gay Biker Motorcycle Club. So they were real gay bikers. And

And they also, speaking of the experience at Cannes, like they drove down and came down to Cannes. So they were there at the premiere. On their bikes? Yeah. A bunch of them, a bunch of them flew down. And I love those guys. And I'm also so grateful for how they kind of invited us in and kind of showed us their world. Yeah. So to share that moment at Cannes with them at a big party the night after the screening was...

It felt really special because, again, it's like a movie that when I signed on and even when I shot it, I was like, I believe in this guy, but...

I can't say that I was cocky enough to be like, I think we're going to go to Cannes with this. Right, right, right. You don't really expect that. Well, talk about that leap of faith because I think that's really, you know, it says a lot about you as an, I hate calling people artists, but it does say a lot about you as an artist, that you are willing to take a chance on someone who hasn't necessarily proven themselves. But we all have been in that place where we want someone to take a chance on us. Well, I'd be more insecure and scared if it was a project that,

by a very established director that I didn't emotionally connect to. That, to me, would be scarier. I'd be like, I don't feel this. I don't feel like I don't jump out of bed super excited in the morning to be like, oh, you know what? I'm going to go work on this one. I just, again, fell in love with the script and the character of Ray. So I was just so excited to take that on. And obviously you have to have...

trust and feel confidence in the person at the helm, the director. But I just really felt that with Harry. In our conversation, I was like, yes, it's his first film, but you clearly know how he wants to tell this story, and I believe in his vision of that. So to me, it didn't feel brave. I was just like, you know what? I'm going to have a blast on this, and I really think that it'll be an incredible experience to collaborate with this guy. And it really was. Yeah.

I know you're on a press tour for Murderbot as well, and have people, because I'm so aware of this one, I have to do a junket. Are a million people asking you about the thigh-high boots? Well, it's a kinky gay biker movie. BDSM sub-dom, you know. My character wears a lot of black leather and white leather and cream leather in the film, so it just felt appropriate to kind of...

I have a little bit of leather. Yeah. Or a lot. Or a lot. On the carpet as well. I love it. Yeah. It's so great. I was able to watch a few episodes of Murderbot, and I really, really love it. It's so... I've never seen something in that genre with that tone. It's... I mean, I want you to sort of describe it, but...

It's almost like a workplace comedy, but it's also about, it's like futuristic and it's sci-fi. I've just, it's very unique. Yeah, I'm glad you enjoyed it. It was, I, I wasn't, it's based on a book series called The Murderbot Diaries by Martha Wells that I wasn't familiar with when I was sent the scripts. Just prior to that, I'd done The Northman and Infinity Pool, two quite intense shows.

tonally quite dark project. Yeah. So I think I was ready to do something a bit more, not lighter necessarily, but slightly more comedic in tone, I think. So I was like, this might not be for me right now. Like, this feels like really intense. And maybe it's also like just the name Murderbob. I was like, is this going to be like Terminator or Robocop? Like, is it that type of guy? You know, great characters, but definitely like more...

testosterone filled, you know? And I was like, I, again, having just done The Northman, which is like pure testosterone, I was like, I need a break from that. Yeah. So I was just so pleasantly surprised when I started reading it and, you know, you meet this character who's like socially awkward and,

zero amount of adrenaline or testosterone and just wants to be left alone to watch soap operas. Yeah. And there's just something really sweet about that awkwardness and the interaction with the space hippies that it's been assigned to protect. It felt like, you said, a little bit of

workplace comedy set in space. Yeah. And there was something really different about that. So that got me quite excited. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I really related to just, like, the social awkwardness and, like, wanting to, like, be left alone. Mm-hmm. I have been known when we're throwing, like, house parties, I will, like, disappear to the bathroom in my bedroom and just, like, sit for, like, 15 minutes and hide. Sit and breathe. Just breathe. And then I'll, like, come out

refreshed having meditated a moment. I kind of just need to unplug for a minute to make my way through the night. I just can't be on all the time. Right. Well, Murbot never wants to be on. No, I know. That's right. Coming from a huge family, we didn't really have that luxury. It was like

non-stop like constant noise and people and chaos so yeah yeah to me that's kind of you kind of have to find somehow peace within that chaos in a way like yeah you know yeah um i don't know some people find a lot of comfort around having tons of people around and i i do like like i remember when i was a kid i i loved like going to bed and hearing like a party in the other room

You know what I mean? Like, I love knowing that there are people around. That sound still to this day, like, that makes me, like, so happy and comfortable. My favorite was when I wanted the door to be open, and my parents and grandparents would often play cards, and that was my favorite sound of them, like, talking, having a good time playing cards out there. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Alexander tells me about the hit music video that haunted his childhood. And he unpacks the dark, complicated dynamic he built with co-star Nicole Kidman on Big Little Lies. Okay, be right back.

Hello, everyone. We're Jamie and Sophie. You may remember us from Nearlyweds and then Newlyweds. But now, guys, things are about to get even wilder as we take on our biggest adventure yet, becoming parents. Yeah, that's right. Newlyweds is now Nearlyparents.

and we're bringing you the same honest, heartwarming takes on our journey to parenthood, I guess. Join us as we find out what it really means to become a family while trying not to kill each other. Get ready for Nearly Parent, your favourite new podcast.

And we're back with more Dinners on Me. We have something in common in that we both...

have been in music videos by very popular artists all right i did taylor swift's you need to calm down video with a lot of people i mean it wasn't just me it was like you have a very featured role in lady gaga's paparazzi video like and so much so that your names and they're like the opening credits of the i'm i'm not i was like in this uh you need to come down video with like every other like the queer eye guys were in it alan degeneres was in it it was like

What's the storyline? What did you get to do with it? It's basically like a gay anthem for her. Okay. You know the song. You need to calm down.

You're being too loud. I've heard the song, but I haven't seen the video. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I never—I used to watch music videos. MTV, by the way. Yeah, exactly. And that just doesn't really exist anymore. I had a VHS of MTV. Because I didn't have MTV growing up. We had a VHS of music videos that we would sit and watch. And I loved it. And then there was Thriller. Michael Jackson's Thriller was on it. And it scared me.

so much. Yeah, it's terrifying. But I was, I remember watching the four-hour VHS music video with my uncle who was like at the time maybe like in his early 20s and his then-girlfriend and I loved it but then when the Thriller video came on I could not stay in the room but I also didn't want to be like a little kid who's like, this is scary so I was like, keep watching guys I'm just going to run to the bathroom. Yeah.

And then I went out, and it's a really long video. It is. It's like 12 minutes long. It's like a movie. I was like standing outside the living room going like...

"Damn, this goes on forever. I told him, 'You're gonna run pee. I'll be right back.'" I was like, "I can't come back in until it..." It turned into a poop. Yeah, I remember hovering outside waiting for the video to end and it never did. That's so funny. But I do love the paparazzi video. I mean, that was like Lady Gaga. I mean, obviously she's incredible and she has such an astonishing career already.

But that was off of her first album when she was, you know... I didn't know who she was, really. Really? No. I just remember... So Jonah Zuckerlund, the director of the music video, is a fellow Swede and an old friend. I had just started shooting True Blood. I think we had just started the second season of the show. Hi, gents. Oh, that was delicious. Are we happy with it? Yeah, very. Thank you. Do you want to try some of this? I'm good, thank you. Thank you so much. So, yeah, he...

called me, we both lived in LA at the time, and he was like, "Hey, I'm doing this music video for Lady Gaga." And I was like, "Who?" But I love Jonas, he's a dear friend. And it was like, you know, he's like, "It'll be one day, it's a weekend, we're shooting it in Malibu, do you want to come have fun?" I was like, and he told me the premise of the story, it's like, you know, I try to kill her and then she kills me. - Yeah, yeah. - And, you know, it's like a really weird, twisted love story. - Yeah. - And he just thought it was super fun, so of course I said yes.

It's fun to think about because she was so new at that time. And like, I don't think anyone imagined, you know, that she'd be like an Oscar nominee a few times over. Like it's, you know, she's very talented. Incredible. I also had so many friends in True Blood.

Everyone that I know who did that show with you speaks so highly of you and says how incredibly sweet you are. Dennis O'Hara was just telling me stories the other day about how every time you'd finish a take, you'd be like, fuck yeah! Sounds very humble. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Would you consider that sort of like the thing that...

That's when I first, like, I knew who you were, but that was the first time I sort of saw you in something mainstream. Oh, yeah, no, I, for sure, that was the first thing that I did that kind of hit the zeitgeist in a way that, and I don't, my credits prior to that were, it was basically two scenes in Zoolander,

That's what I mean. That's how I do it. My very first job. Which is a great movie. Great two scenes. Two great scenes and a great film. So that was a great start. But then after that, I auditioned for everything, but I couldn't get a job. I couldn't book anything. Until 2007, when I got Generation Killed, which was a limited series for HBO, by the guys who did The Wire. Yeah. David Simon and Ed Burns and...

So that was an incredible experience and incredibly scary because throughout that, I thought they were... Because it was such a prestigious project, you know, with those guys, HBO, and it was one of the lead roles. It's about the war in Iraq, and I was so convinced that they were going to fire me that I was... Like, it wasn't like I was slightly worried. I was like, they are going to... Why did you think they were going to fire you? Because I was like... I think, like, after...

Between Zoolander and Generation Killed, I auditioned for a lot and not booked anything. And then the one project I booked is Generation Killed. It's like such a prestigious show. And I was like, surely, you know, they're going to want someone else for this, you know?

So I remember like the first month, every day of the shoot, I was like waiting for them to come knocking and be like, yep, you can go home now. And I remember starting to calculate how much money HBO would have spent, like how much would it cost to replace me? Because I was like, they're going to reshoot. And then we had a couple of big battle scenes and I was like, my thought coming out of those wasn't like, oh, wow, that went well. That was great. I was like,

Okay, that's a lot of money spent so maybe they're they can't afford to replace me now walking on eggshells for like I think we were deep into the show maybe like three months into the show before I started kind of Finding my stride and settling in and be like, you know what? I think it's like I think thank you the problem. I can erase you Oh beautiful. Thank you very much Thank you

They're probably not going to reshoot four full episodes of this show. It's interesting that you had that moment of self-doubt while you're working. Did you ever go back and watch Generation Kill? Do you watch your work ever? If you don't have to? I mean, obviously, if you're at a screening at Cannes and you want to count how many minutes your generation is. I'm not like...

Jesse Eisenberg, who's like, he doesn't want to watch his work at all. Yeah, I know that. He did an episode of Modern Family because he was a fan of the show. He's like, I really want to watch this episode, but will you cut out my scenes? Yeah. So we sent him the episode he was in with his scenes cut out so he could watch it. So I don't know what he... Because I did a movie with Jesse, and I adore him, and it was an incredible experience. But at the premiere, he would be like, you know, do the red carpet, walk in, introduce the movie,

Get the hell out of there. And then come back two hours later, you know? Yeah. It's like, how was it? But now that he's directing and he's in his own movies, like, how does he... He has to watch himself. He's like, ah! Yeah. No, I can watch. And I, like, watching Pillion at Cannes was an incredible experience. I'm really glad I was in the room and stayed for that. Did you watch Generation Kel? Do you, like, see yourself being not confident? Or is it something that was completely internalized? No, it was...

It's been a while. I watched it when it came out and then I rewatched it maybe 10 years ago, five years, seven years ago, something like that. And it was okay to watch it. Like I didn't, I can see that I'm inexperienced and that I'm insecure.

But the writing is so good and the other actors are so good that I think it kind of makes up for it a bit. I mean, I always love to hear people who I admire say that they have those moments because I look at performances like what you did in Big Little Lies, which was, you know, you can't do if you have any self-doubt.

You know, that is, it's an incredible performance, obviously. I mean, you won every award there is to win for it very deservedly. I'm quite riddled with self-doubt. Yeah, I definitely didn't go into that with complete confidence. It was such a departure for you, too, I think. I mean, it's... Well, yeah, I didn't, again, I didn't go into it with complete confidence or like, or like, ah, I can do this. It was just, again, it was...

such a beautifully scripted relationship. So it was there on the page and an opportunity to explore that with, come on, Nicole Kidman, like one of the greatest. So that got me incredibly excited. Wow. What a, what a privilege to go deep and explore this very, very complicated, dark relationship with, with Nicole Kidman, you know, what was probably built. I would say definitely to build up more self-confidence than,

when I did Generation Kill, but I can still, definitely still have moments that I'm like, I feel like a fraud, an imposter. I love that you also have worked with Nicole a few times. I say Nicole like I know her. I don't. Nikki. Nikki. Nick Nix. Yeah. Big, I'm a big fan of hers. I love that, you know, you did, is it called North, North? The Northman, yeah. Yeah, the Northman. With her as well. Yeah, it was just, um,

working with her on Big Little Lies was such an extraordinary experience. So when there was an opportunity to explore another very, very disturbing relationship, this time mother-son, Ninsetsky's story, Nicole was obviously the first one we wanted to go out to because it was like, I was just thrilled to kind of collaborate with her again on something.

- How is your food going? - I think I'm done. - Phenomenal. - Yeah, thank you. - Yeah, it was delicious. Really delicious, thank you. - Thank you. - Okay, that should be for a double espresso. - Ooh, can I have one too? - Sure, you can. - Thank you. - Thank you. - And maybe I'll take a little milk on the side. - A little? - A little milk. - Thank you. - I am curious, since we have a little bit more time to start getting coffee, what it was like being in military at such a young age.

Is it something in Sweden that's pretty common? If you're of a certain age? It was technically still mandatory to do military service, but it was quite easy to get out of it if you wanted, and a lot of people got out of it. I was at a place in life where I come from a very bohemian family of pacifists.

And I didn't want to be an actor at the time. I had no idea what I wanted to do when I grew up in an urban area in South Stockholm. So not very outdoorsy like we were, like most Swedes go skiing in the winter or out sailing in the summer. And we didn't either, you know. So there was something and I was walking down the street and some recruiter gave me this pamphlet from this Säakyökt, which was the name of the unit. And of course, they made the pamphlet look like

James Bond stuff. It was like really cool. It was like diving, kayaking, falling off, jumping off boats and helicopters. It was like, you know, and I was like, all right, this is exactly what I want to do. Cause I knew that I didn't know what I wanted to do. I knew I didn't want to be an actor. I don't, I can't say that it was like to rebel, I guess my dad or my Bohemian family, but it was, again, I just was like, I want to go my own way. I want to do something different. Like this sounds like a,

an adventure, like that could be an interesting experience. So I joined that unit and was there for a year and a half in the archipelago outside of Stockholm. And I think in hindsight, I'm glad I did it. I think I learned a lot about myself. It was quite nice because I was a team leader and it was just four of us. It was basically a very small unit. So we were quite independent in a way.

So yes, we went through the whole drill sergeant, the boot camp stuff to start with, but thank you. Thank you so much. Thanks. Of course, having had that experience is helpful. Well, definitely when you play a Marine like in Generation Kill, or I've played a soldier a couple of other times in...

Of course, it's helpful to have had that. I might have told this story already on the podcast. I auditioned for Band of Brothers, and I auditioned to play one of the soldiers, and it just was, like, not a match. I mean, I... Like, I would have really just loved an ounce of, like, the history that you had with, like, being in the military. Like, just anything I could grab onto, I had nothing to grasp onto. Alex, it was bad. I...

I remember having to say something about women's genitalia that begins with the word pee. But in my head, I heard it like, yes, pussy. Like, I just like, I was like, it was like nothing. Like, what was happening in my head was not, I was not connected to it. It just, it did not work. And I was like, they see right through all this. So, like, get out of this room. You are not...

But going into the audition, did you feel like, you know what? I could be right for this. Nope. It was one of those things where I was like, I am new to this agency. I just...

I just got to L.A. I'm on a show that people are excited about. I got to... I've got to, like, take every opportunity. Were you working on something at the time? It wasn't Modern Family. It was something else. Okay. But you were a working actor. I was a working actor. So you were working on something that... And I felt like I have to take these opportunities. People want to see me. It's a great cast and director for HBO. I don't remember her name. It was just... Yeah, I did not go in with confidence either. That... Because, again...

In those years between Zoolander and Generation Kill, when I lived in L.A. but didn't book a job, those were the... I found those experiences, they were horrible. When you go in for something that you know you're not right for and you're not connecting with the character at all, but you're at a place where you feel like you can't...

say no to the audition. Because this is a message to your representatives. Yeah, because I felt like I was always on the cusp of being fired by my agents. So when they called about something and they were excited about the project, like, you know, this is like this courtroom drama. It's amazing. You're perfect for it. Like, oh, I have an audition in three weeks. They're giving me an audition. If I say no to this, they're probably going to drop me. So I got to go in. But I got I don't connect to the role. I'm completely wrong for it.

Yeah, I would have loved just an ounce of military confidence in that moment. And I did not have it. Yes. Yes, pussy. I mean, I feel like I probably did sound like that. I was really trying to butch it up. But, like, it was just didn't work. Did not work. Nope. Didn't get it. Didn't book it. Never even came close. Really? No, no.

I know. No. I have very few auditions that I'm like, oof, that one hurt. That one stings a little bit. It's really embedded in my memory. It's like a very uncomfortable moment for me.

It also felt like I was being asked to play some, like, toxic masculinity. I was being asked to play, and it's just, like, that's what I was afraid of as, like, a kid. So it's, like, I'm asked to do this thing that, like, was put on me. And, like, I don't know. It all just felt very bad. I get a little PTSD, you know, because I remember the feeling of coming back to my little shitty apartment in L.A., you know, crying in the shower and going like that after a day like that. Because I just felt filthy in my soul for, like, two weeks.

And also zero confidence. I'm the worst actor in the world, and I also have no dignity because I go in and audition for this stuff that I... I'm wasting their time. I'm just like... It's a rough feeling. It's a rough... Listen, it's a rough, weird business. Like I said at the beginning of this conversation, it's a weird thing that we do. It sure is. It's a very weird thing. But, you know, I'm glad you found your way back to it because you're really good. You know, saying that you didn't want to be an actor, I'm glad that, you know, you're...

You had that change of heart because I've really loved watching you and everything you've done. I think you're a great actor and you always are surprising me and doing interesting things. I cannot wait to see this film with Pedro Pascal. And

And I'm really loving Murderbot. Thank you. I'm really happy to hear that. This has been a great lunch. I really enjoyed it. Thanks for doing this for your trip to Stockholm. And I'm really going to try, hopefully I'll be back before you guys end of the run so I can see you and it would be lovely to get together with Dennis again. It's been so long. Please send him a big kiss for me tonight. I will. Open mouth.

A little tongue. Yeah, and a little cupping. Yeah, just a little cupping. He'll love all of that. Yeah, I adore that man. Yeah, he's pretty great. He loves you, too. Anyway, thanks for doing this. Thank you, my pleasure. See you soon. Yes. Yes! This episode of Dinners on Me was recorded at Boca de Lupo in London, Soho.

Next week on Dinner's On Me, she's the voice behind iconic hit singles like Unwritten, Pocketful of Sunshine, and These Words. It's Natasha Bedingfield. We'll get into the backstory of the iconic single Unwritten, also known as the theme song of The Hills, her conservative religious upbringing, and an embarrassing moment with Sia that taught her an important lesson.

And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners On Me Plus. As a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen completely ad-free. Just click Try Free at the top of the Dinners On Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today.

Dinners on Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and A Kid Named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our producer in the UK is Grace Laker. Our associate producer is Alyssa Midcalf. Sam Baer engineered this episode. Hans Dale Shee composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison.

Special thanks to Tamika Balance-Kalasny and Justin Mikita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.