JANE LYNCH — on how a Frosted Flakes commercial led to ‘Best in Show’
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- Jesse, get in the car. - Is this a new car? What's going on? This is crazy. - Well, we're hitting the road today and leaving the LA bubble to eat with our guests in Montecito. And I thought why not arrive in style in the all new Nissan Murano. - I like this. It's so luxurious. - Let me show you something.

Oh, wait. Does this seat have massagers in it? Oh, my. What? Is this a spa? Yes. Wait, let me show you something else. Oh, the lights are changing colors in here. What's going on? Yeah, it's a vibe, right? Like, what are you feeling color-wise? Because, I mean, there's 64 color options. There are that many colors? Yes. Okay. I'm simple blue. You got it.

Oh, oh, okay. This is very luxurious, very relaxing. You have seat massagers. Let's put your seat back. Okay. Oh, oh, wow. Yeah, look at this view. Just sit back, relax. We're going to be there in no time. All right, I'm ready. Are you ready? I'm ready. Montecito, here we come. Hi, it's Jesse.

Today on the show, you know her from Only Murders in the Building, Glee, and her multitude of roles in Christopher Guest's films. It's Jane Lynch. Sometimes at night we see guys holding hands, walking down the beach, and they're gay. And I was like, I'm the girl version of that. This is Dinners on Me, and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. ♪

Okay, the year was 2000. I was 24 years old, crammed into a studio apartment deep in Brooklyn. I was juggling three jobs, one for rent, one for food, and one for my MetroCard, which was basically a monthly subscription to Disappointment. Any spare moment I had, I was auditioning, running across the city in shoes that were probably falling apart.

One freezing winter day between appointments in Manhattan, I ducked into a movie theater just to get warm. The movie I decided to see was Best in Show.

And from the moment it started, I was absolutely hooked. Now, I already loved Christopher Guest's previous film, Waiting for Guffman, but Best in Show, it was an instant classic. I saw it again and again and again. I dragged friends with me every time I saw it. The second that the DVD hit the shelves, I bought it and practically wore it out, memorizing lines, obsessing over deleted scenes, and idolizing every member of the cast. And then there was Jane Lynch.

Now, I'd never seen her before, but as Christy Cummings, she was electric. I became a fan for life in that moment, tracking her every project like a heat-seeking missile. Now, flash forward a decade, Modern Family premieres, and my life changes in ways I never could have imagined. Running around to all those auditions in unsensible shoes obviously paid off.

The same season that Modern Family started, another show explodes onto the scene, Glee. And right there at the center of it, in all her tracksuit-clad, megaphone-wielding glory, is Jane Lynch as Coach Sue Sylvester. I

I remember watching, beaming with pride for this actress I had admired for so long. And then something even wilder happened. Through the swirl of Hollywood events, red carpets, and industry parties that came with those early modern family years, Jane and I crossed paths. And then we kept crossing paths. And before I knew it, she wasn't just an actress I admired, she was my friend.

It's a strange and wonderful thing when someone you idolize turns out to be just as incredible in real life as you'd hope they'd be. Jane was sharp, hilarious, and deeply kind. We just clicked.

So when the opportunity came up to take a road trip to Santa Barbara for a meal with Jane, I didn't hesitate for a second. It felt like a full circle moment. The kind of thing that if you told 24-year-old me about shivering in that movie theater back in 2000, I would never have believed. But life has a funny way of surprising you.

James. Yes. Thanks for doing this with me. Oh, I'm so thrilled. I love your little old school notepad. I know, right? I know. Just simple notes. Yeah. We know each other so well. I really don't need it. Yeah.

I brought Jane to Tres Lunas in Montecito. Now, well, actually, I should say Jane brought me because it was really her suggestion. She's a regular there. She even has a regular table that she may or may not frequent with none other than Carol Burnett. Funny story, when we were talking to Tres Lunas about hosting this episode, Jane was apparently sipping some coffee on the patio. I mean, she basically lives there. Anyway...

Tre Lune is a celebrity hotspot for a reason. It serves up authentic, simple Italian recipes that let the fresh ingredients really shine through, like rigatoni with porcini, shiitake and button mushrooms in a light tomato cream sauce, or fresh sauteed salmon with lemons and capers. Now I'm hungry. Okay, let's get to the conversation.

Thanks for having us here in your little hometown now. Yeah, this is Montecito and this is Trelune, and I come here probably at least four times a week. I love it up here so much. I'm so jealous that you get to live here year-round. It's a wonderful place to live. Yeah. Wait, have you lived up here for a while now? Five years. Okay, okay. So that was...

What made you want to make that move from LA to come up here? Well, Jennifer, my wife and I, one of our first dates, our first weekends away was up here. And I had always said, I want to live here when I retire. You know, when I get old, like, because everybody here, as you look around, everybody's of a certain age.

What is your day like up here? Oh, gosh, it's really slow. And it took me a while. I'm in the place now where it feels good and it feels normal. But, you know, I really have nothing to do except if I go off and work. But I take a walk. I mean, I run into people all the time and say, you

A lot around here. And I go to the grocery store and get my food for the day. I mean, it's really simple and easy. Then I go to Cafe Lux and get my non-existing coffee anymore because I can't drink coffee because of my GERD. We were talking about this before. I can't, and it's been my big addiction. Letting the coffee go, it's almost like when I stopped drinking, it was like I felt I have no reason to live now. I know. So I'm going through a little bit of that downer. Have you really completely given it up? Yeah, I have to. Oh, wow.

I have to. I'm burning my voice box and my voice has gotten a little lower. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's basically what I do. I get my groceries for the day and then I go home. You get your groceries and you deal with the acid reflux. I do. That's all I do. That's all you do. You're a whole new person up here in Santa Barbara, Montecito area. I am.

Now, just to be clear, you haven't retired, even though you're living here. No, but that's the funny thing is that when we got up here, we took a weekend up here, and Jennifer said, you know, you're almost 60, so this is almost like retirement age. Do you want to look around? And I was like, sure. So we found something, a house, and then the prices went up.

Through the roof. Uh-huh. I'm so happy you're up here. Oh, I am too. You seem really happy up here. And you're welcome. You and Justin and the kids are welcome to come to the, we have a little carriage house that's so sweet. Oh, yeah.

You have to come visit us. I love that. Yeah. How is marriage 2.0 going? Great. Really, really well. I'm glad. Yeah. When you said 2.0, I was thinking, oh, because I forgot I had been married before. But it's great. She's one of the happiest, peaceful people I've ever met in my life. Yeah. And we're both very independent. Yeah.

Very independent. Like if we hadn't found each other, we would for sure be single. It's just really perfect for both of us. Yeah, yeah. You've always been, I think, fairly independent from what I understand. Yeah, I like to do things on my own. I remember one of the first times I saw you in person was right after I moved to Los Angeles. Just speaking of coffee shops and your love of coffee, I drove by King's Road. Of course. I remember being so excited because I was such a huge fan of yours and I was too nervous to say hello to you.

which I don't know if it's because I just found you intimidating and tall, which you are at least one of those things. But I was so pleased when we finally became friends when you were doing Glee and I was doing Modern Family because those two shows started at the same time. And, you know, they were both such hot shows at the time. Yeah, it was a heady period of time for us, wasn't it? Yeah, it was crazy. And I mean, I had already known you

You know, your work was so impressed upon me just with the Christopher Guest stuff you've done and 40 Old Virgin. But it seemed with Glee, like, it was a whole other level of notoriety that you were getting. And, like, people were so excited about you in that show. And obviously, you know, awards attention. And for me, it was just, you know, that was such a big deal for me at that moment, too. And I feel like it was Glee and Modern Family, like, the two hot, buzzy shows. Yeah. The two comedies that people were really talking about. Right.

It was rarefied air for sure. So exciting. And I really loved getting to know so many people that, you know, your coworkers and, but mostly you. It's like, it was such a treat to get to know you as a person. Same here. And that's where our friendship sort of began. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Remember the last time we worked together, which we didn't share the screen was that

It was in Vancouver. Yes. And I moved out of that hotel. Oh, I didn't tell you. No, you told me you moved out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, that was when we were shooting Ivy and Bean. That's right. Yeah, but I remember we went out to a vegan restaurant and I've just got to let you know I'm a carnivore now. Oh, really? Okay, so this is so interesting. No, we didn't go to a vegan restaurant, but you ordered vegan. Yeah. Because I took you to a place that I loved. Right, right, right. And you're like, I can't eat any of this stuff because I'm vegan. Did I say it like that? God.

Well, I don't know. It might have been exactly that. Oh, you know, I might have had that vegan arrogance. I think I kind of tried that on for a while. I can't eat any of this. I can't eat any of this. Animals were slaughtered for this. No, I don't think you said that. Well, maybe. But what I do remember specifically, this really is, and I was so excited to eat with you again because it was like the last time it was so funny, is you were like, not only can I not eat meat, but I don't want anything spicy.

And do you remember this? Where are you gonna take this, girl? So you ordered, they had a basically buffalo wing cauliflower, which is- Made out of cauliflower, right, right, right. But you didn't want the spice on it. You didn't want the sauce. I'm so boring. Well, this is- Was my company that boring?

I hope not. Good Lord. But so you ordered this basically steamed cauliflower and I had my meal and then the waiter, do you remember this? The waiter came by the table and was like, how was your meal? And you hadn't eaten very much of it. And you're like, well, it was kind of bland. And he was like so apologetic. And you're like, no, I mean, it's my fault. I ordered boiled cauliflower. And like, it didn't work.

I think they like didn't charge us for it or something. The Canadians are so nice. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. Yeah. But when you were doing funny girl, I don't know if I ever told this, but I really desperately wanted to send a head of cauliflower to your theater as an opening night gift. Oh,

How are you? Good, how are you, honey? Dr. Luna, nice to see you. Jane's a regular. I am. And you know what I want. What do you usually get? I get the tagliata. It's delicious. You don't have to get it, but you can certainly have bites of mine. I'm so impressed. I was really like, what is she going to order? I don't know.

What else do you love here? What are you known for? Jane? Go ahead. No, no, let him tell you first. This is not your question. No, it's not. I'm sorry. I'm so in the interviewee mode. Oh. Well, I will say one of the classes. Okay, tell me. I'm going to be okay with everything or there is something. I'm okay with everything. I know.

The cacio e pepe. Cacio e pepe is really good. I love cacio e pepe. Oh, that's Jen's favorite. I'm going to do that. Yeah. I'm going to do a cacio e pepe. Could I do a little salad on the side? Yes, yes. No problem. And to drink, I would love something effervescent. If you have something like sparkling that's non-alcoholic. Or even a lemonade. A limonata, Italian limonata. Yeah, that's great. I love that. A sparkling Caligrino. Thank you. Yes.

Which is not great for my gird, but... Yeah, I was going to say. Yeah. You know what? Make it flat. No. Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm always boring when I go out with you. You always disappoint me. I'm so sorry. I'll do sparkling and just... There you go. Go crazy. Yeah, right.

And do you answer bread? Do you want bread? Oh, I don't want bread. Do you want bread? I don't want bread. We're Hollywood actors. We don't eat bread. No, we don't do that. Listen, even though we're upstate. Upstate. We're upstate LA or California, upstate LA. Jennifer and I were talking about this. I said, I think I saw somewhere it said Santa Barbara and the Central California coast. I think we're in Central California. We might be.

So I'm not a SoCal gal anymore. No, you aren't. That rhymed, though. SoCal gal. Get a tramp stamp that says SoCal gal. And then you can put it above it that says former. I love that you live up here. I love that you have gotten away from L.A. I assume you go back a lot. Like, how often do you have to go back to the city? Rarely. Yeah. I rarely go back to the city. I go to New York.

I go to New York. Yeah. Everything I've done in the last, like, three or four years has been in New York. Have you worked in L.A. a lot? In Vancouver? Not since Modern Family finished. Yeah, isn't that crazy? Yeah. Yeah. Very little. I'm going to Toronto to do some work. I'm going to London. I'm going to New York. Yeah. Oh, I wish I was going to London. I am going to London. Why are you going to London? I'm going to—I'm not working. Okay.

But over the summer, Jennifer and I did this two years ago. We go to Oxford University and we take a summer school class. I was going to say, do you take a class? For three weeks and we stay in the dorm.

And we have a class. We do it through Berkeley because that's where Jennifer went to school. Okay. So it's all of these people, and we're like the youngest ones. Really? And they teach you in the Oxford way, which is you sit at a conference table. The teacher, and they call the teacher the tutor, sits at the front, and we discuss. In a powdered wig. In a powdered wig. Yes, and they make sure it's really hot. We all smell bad. And we discuss. Like, mine was Shakespeare. Okay.

So we talked. That's what you studied? Yeah, that's what I studied. This is incredible. Five plays. Yeah, you totally love it with a wonderful teacher. I mean, the love of learning in this program is just. It's a three week thing. It's a three week thing. I want to do this. What are you studying this summer? I'm studying Shakespeare, same group. Again? Five different plays. I don't know what they are yet. And it's basically the same group.

So I got in early to make sure because that class closes up really fast. Have you always loved Shakespeare? Yes, yes. I didn't know that about you. Ever since I started working on it in undergrad. Interesting. I know that you were a big fan of theater. Yeah. But I feel like I was hearing, I must have listened to this on a podcast, that you got scared of theater very quickly. Yeah.

Was it that you? Oh, yeah. And when I was a kid, when I was a freshman in high school, I got cast in a one act that was based on the Princess and the Peace story. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was called The Ugly Duckling. And I auditioned for the king. I don't know why, but I did. I got tons of laughs in the audition. And they like, we're going to cast her, starting kind of this pattern of me doing roles that were originally written for men. Yes.

So at the first rehearsal, I sat down on my throne and I did the same thing I did at the audition and no one laughed. In rehearsal? Yeah, and I quit. I didn't tell myself that's why I quit, but that's why I quit. I told myself, you know... After one rehearsal? One rehearsal. I said, I got so scared. I said, I want to be on the tennis team instead. And then I went back because I couldn't stay away. And I worked on the crew for that play.

Did you watch the person who was playing the king? Were you jealous? Yeah, more heartbroken for myself. Yeah, I mean, how much... When I first became a fan of yours, it was through the Christopher Guest films. Oh, yes. The first one I saw of his was Waiting for Guffman, which you weren't in. No, that was the first one I saw, too. Yeah. But his second film was Best in Show. And you are absolutely brilliant at it. You and Jennifer Coolidge. Thank you. And...

You could tell that it's being improvised. You could tell that this is not scripted. But at the same time, everything seems so planned out and everything seems to work so cohesively together. How complicated is it to bring so many brilliant improvisers together and have everyone be on the same page? What did Christopher give you as far as like...

Backstory and stuff. Yeah. Well, the first thing he does is he says, I'm going to do another movie and here's your character. Okay. And so he gives us a little bit of our backstory. We're lovers and she's got an old man and she's married too. Yeah.

So then, like, for me, what I would do is I would write out, I mean, I did all that acting school stuff, wrote out the history of the character and made decisions about her. I went so far as, like, I would read, like, the news. I would pick up a newspaper and I would comment on the newspaper as the character. And that's how I, like, really learned who she was. And then Jennifer and I got a hold of each other. And we were both very nervous because we were both first timers.

But we had talked so much and our stories synced up. And we had a lot of fun doing it. We would walk through Stanley Park and say, what if I say ha ha ha? So we kind of planned out what our interactions would be. Right. But then doing Mighty Wind...

We worked so hard on the, long and hard on the music that when Michael, John Michael Higgins and I are doing our first scene together, I have no idea what he's going to say. And he's my husband. Yeah. Like how we met or anything. He's a brilliant improviser. Oh my God, he's the best. He's so funny. He's brilliant on about 150 different levels too. I mean. Yeah. So he tells his story. I tell my story and he's hearing mine for the first time. And what's really funny at one point, he thinks I'm about to say,

And I met the man who would change my life. And he kind of sits up. Yeah. And I go, Bert Wiseman, the pornographer. Yeah, yeah. And then you see his spine kind of crumble. It's so good. I was actually just—I was re-watching that clip on YouTube this morning. You play this former porn star who's now part of this singing group. Almost like Sing for Jesus singing group. Yeah, they're very— Oh, my God. It's so funny. You tend to play these, like—you play—

A seductress. So you do it quite well. You did in the 40-year-old virgin, like aggressively coming on to Steve Carell. And you kind of did it in Best in Show as well, you know, sort of like the sides to Jennifer Coolidge. Yes. About like, I'm a disciplarian. Yeah, right. Dynamite the sack. Thank you for laughing at that. I remember coming up, I'm going to say dynamite. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then for your consideration, you were also so great. And those three Christopher Guest films for me are just such iconic. Yeah. So different. Everyone in those ensembles gets to play such a wide variety of different

types of people. And for me, it's like your career really took a big turn after that. It did, yes, absolutely. Before that, I had been doing guest spots on things and the occasional pilot where you get your hopes up and then they're dashed and then you just go up and continue doing your thing. And I did a lot of voiceover and really enjoying where I was for the most part. And although I always wanted more, I wanted something bigger, I kind of didn't expect it. Right. And so when the

Christopher Guest thing started happening. That was... And you had to meet Christopher Guest. I did an audition for a commercial and went to the callback for it for Carlos Rosteplix, and he was the director. Oh, wow. So I walked in, and there he is. And I knew him from Waiting for Guffman, so I was kind of like...

Oh, yeah, because he's also in it. Yeah, right. So I knew who he was. It's just such a great film. It's so packed full of beautiful things. Someone retweeted the scene of Parker Posey where she's out in the middle of winter in Ohio with a coat on, barbecuing. One chicken thigh. One chicken. It's just beige. Yeah, yeah. It's so good. She's smoking a cigarette. I'll always have the DQ. I'll always have the DQ. Coming up with a fat, fleet-free, sugar-free blizzard. Yeah, yeah.

Oh, so good. Just so brilliant. Yeah. So, yes, those movies definitely took me up to a new level that was heretofore unexperienced for me.

When did you move to L.A.? In 91. I was in Chicago up until then. And we did a show called The Real Live Brady Bunch. Yes, I know about this. Yes, which was the Brady Bunch. With Andy Richter, right? Yeah, with Andy Richter. He was Mike and I was Carol. So we did it at the Village Gate in New York.

And then we did it at the Westwood Playhouse, now the Geffen Playhouse. And so we all basically stayed in LA. So the Brady Bunch was kind of what brought you back to LA? Yes. Yeah. And that was a huge hit. I wasn't in LA at that time, but I remember reading about it and hearing about it. You were just a kid. I was a baby. You were a baby. Yeah. Would have been 1990, 91. Yeah, no, I was starting high school. Yeah. Yeah. And where did you grow up? What time? Albuquerque. Oh, I didn't know.

I don't know why my voice just did that. My gurg kicked in. Albuquerque, New Mexico. Yeah. Yeah. How did you not burn the shit out of your skin? Oh, it's a terrible place to raise a redhead. All redheaded in their families? Like fair skin, but I was the real redhead. Yeah. My sister's sort of strawberry blondish. Yeah. But yeah, it was a lot. When you were growing up,

Did you know that you were gay as a kid? Yeah, around 12. Yeah, same here. Yeah, when I heard a friend of mine, she was going on vacation in Florida. I forget where, but I guess there were gay guys there. She said, we'll see. In Florida? In Florida. My word. She said, sometimes at night we see guys holding hands, walking down the beach, and they're gay. And I was like, I'm the girl version of that.

And it felt like I had a disease, like I have that. Yeah, yeah. Because they didn't say it with any affection about him, you know, these gay guys, you know, holding hands. Well, I assume Chicago at that time probably wasn't the easiest place. Well, I was in a suburb, so I think Chicago, you know, Chicago always had gay neighborhoods. Uh-huh.

Like any big city. And so when I finally got to the city, you know, it was teeming with the gays and so was the theater world. And it wasn't a, it wasn't a big deal. Yeah. You know?

Yeah, I mean, definitely. I mean, that's one of the reasons I love theater so much is because I felt really at home in that community. It didn't matter one way or the other. It did not matter at all. When I did my first TV show, which was The Class, I played a straight guy on it and had this really sweet relationship with Heather Golden Hirsch on the show. You know, I was very much out to my cast, I thought.

I remember we were doing upfronts in Canada for the show and Andrea Anders, who was in the show with me, she said, do you have a girlfriend? And I was like, no. I kind of said it like, no. And her next thought was, oh my God, are you a virgin? I was like, Andrea, no, I'm gay. She's so shocked. I was like, oh my God, am I really passing as a straight person? But I remember feeling...

Like there wasn't a lot of pressure for me to come out as gay, especially at that time until Modern Family really happened. And you're playing a gay man. And I'm playing a gay man.

How was it for you when you came to LA? Well, you know, I played a gay woman in the Christopher Guest film. Yes, I do. And I didn't have a single thought of it. Yeah. Like, oh, will I have to come out? Will people know I'm gay? I was like, I got the best job in the world. Yeah. So I didn't really think about it. At that point, I mean, I hadn't come out to my parents. I was about 30. Okay. So I waited a long time. How did your parents react?

Great. Oh, that's incredible. I think it would have been different when I was 18, but they were just great. And it was, in fact, we kind of jumped into a new relationship because I had kind of separated myself because of this and was kind of, I felt alone and I didn't think that they would love me anymore. Oh. No. And so once that broke, that fever broke, I don't remember like even pausing. Not that I came out and said, hey, I'm gay, but yeah, I don't remember it happening.

feeling like a big deal. And a lot of that has to do with the fact that right as I was starting to come on the scene in Hollywood, Ellen and

Melissa Etheridge and Katie Lang, they had all come out. And they had all kind of lived to tell the tale. Yeah. So I think that they did a lot of work that kind of gave me, subconsciously, some kind of security and safety. Oh, I think absolutely. When that was all happening, it sort of felt like,

If you don't come out on the cover of a magazine, is it really coming out? Right. If a tree falls in the woods and no one hears it. Right. But so it felt like you had to sort of make a big deal about it. And at that time, it was like Neil Patrick Harris and T.R. Knight, Zachary Quinto. Right. Matt Bomer. But a lot of these people...

It's sort of the same way I feel like I came out in that it was just, I continued to live my life as I lived it. And then that information seeped out in ways that I didn't feel like I had to make a big splashy moment of it all. Right. And don't you think too that because you played a gay man? Yes. That people just assumed you were? Yes. Because I think that might be, as I'm thinking of it right now here at this table at Trey Lunay, that the fact that I kind of,

came on the scene, if you will, as a gay woman in a movie that maybe people thought, just thought I was. But then the next time you were like, I'm a porn star who loves getting, like, she's the only one who does certain things that other women won't do. So, it was for a loop. Yeah, you know, it's, I definitely,

really respect people who came out before me and paved the way and I think made things easier. But, you know, I think it's always interesting for someone like me who's more of a character actor and someone like Matt Bomer who's like, you know, this leading man. Yeah, gorgeous. You know, and it's like, it's strange that those, that coming out is two totally different experiences for us just because of the way that the industry looks at us. And I think that we're, it's almost like we should go back to the old Hollywood ways where

Everybody wants to, it's about our personalities. They want to know too much. Everybody wants to get behind the curtain and see how things are done. There's like a celebrity obsession that I think is starting to go away. Yeah, no, agreed. Yeah, for sure.

Now for a quick break. I actually need to run to the car really quick and put some money in the meter. Speaking of my car, I have to say I was already in a great mood today since I knew I was going to be having this chat with Jane Lynch, but I arrived so relaxed and re-energized coming up the coast in the all-new Nissan Murano. I'm going to be talking to Jane Lynch,

We were so excited to partner with Nissan because they're a brand that understands that sometimes the greatest rush comes from not rushing at all. And that's something I really care about and one of the reasons why I wanted to start Dinners On Me in the first place. I wanted to be able to create an opportunity to simply be with another person, purely for the sake of enjoying good food and good conversation. So thanks again to Nissan for sponsoring this episode of Dinners On Me and for reminding us to take a moment and breathe.

Learn about the all-new Nissan Murano at NissanUSA.com. Panoramic moonroof, ambient lighting, and massaging leather-appointed seats are optional features. And now, let's get back to our conversation with Jane Lynch. Um...

How much did you love working with Scott Ellis doing Maisel? Marvelous Mrs. Maisel. Great, great, great. I loved doing that show. It was a great show. I loved it so much. You know, soup to nuts. Acting, writing, the people, the costumes. Yeah, yeah. The background people were lovely and great actors too. You know, they knew being a background actor is an art because if it's not good,

You notice. You notice and it can destroy what you're doing. There's some, I saw it on YouTube or TikTok. There was, I guess there's some background actor on an episode of Modern Family. So funny. I love it so much. Who's at a table in the background. And I guess they were probably given instruction to like, you know, have a conversation, like make it look natural. But she's not sitting at a table with anyone.

but she must've was like, well, I guess that's what they told me to do. She's talking to thin air right behind me. Like it's right off my, like my left shoulder and it's me having a scene with, I don't know, Claire or whatever. And then there's this person behind me talking to an empty chair and

A lot. And it's one of my favorite things. I'm like, I want to find this girl and give her a special award for this. She was just doing what they were telling her. She was taking direction. Yeah. If you don't want that, you got to be more specific. You said make conversation. Exactly. You didn't have to say it was with a person. Right.

Anyway, speaking of background actors. I was looking and it's like you are basically an annual invite to the enemies. Like, almost, I think it's something like 15 nominations. Basically, every year you're nominated for something. Guest star, usually. Guest star or host or something. Yeah, yeah, that's right. I know you won for Hollywood Game Night. Hollywood Game Night. Which I was a contestant on.

I know, you were great. The episode that I shot was with John Legend, Chrissy Teigen, Jane Krakowski, and Zachary Quinto. You were so great at that. And that's a whole art in itself. It is, yeah. To really be on your toes and to be working, especially when you're working with people who are actually...

competing to win real money for their families. There's a level of... There's no effing around. And there's standards in practice because of where there is money. So you definitely have to... Doing Hollywood Game Night was kind of like boot camp for hosting a game show. Yeah. Yeah.

because Hollywood Game Night was so challenging. Right. Also, you were developing the blueprint for Hollywood Game Night. Like, that was a new show. Exactly, yeah. Five games every episode. Celebrities, which social anxiety, hello. Yeah, because every week you're like...

kind of have to be the one to make all these people feel comfortable on top of doing your own job. Exactly. Exactly. And understand, I mean, everything's in the teleprompter, but you got to understand the game. Like we would do two or three days of just me working on the games before we started shooting. And, you know, it became an easy thing to do and it was always enjoyable.

But when Weakest Link came along, I mean, I'm standing behind a podium and with these really, you know, they know how to pick people really nice. It had been done. It had been done. It's basically the same people.

We had done Hollywood Game Night, which logistically was just all over the place. So you take those people and put them on Weakest Link, and it's a much simpler game. And so we just flow like a well-oiled machine. It's an absolute delight. And I love trivia, especially the Weakest Link. One of the first episodes we did, we literally had a rocket scientist who had like five degrees of

From like Stanford, Oxford. Really smart guy. And his questions were, the first one was about the Kardashians. Oh. He didn't know. And then somebody else got like a science question. And he's like. We're topping here, yeah. Yeah. And then one was about a breakfast cereal.

You know, what breakfast cereal says it's great or something like that. And he said, I don't know, Cocoa Krispies. I was in the commercial. Let's go back to 1992. Roll the tape, please. And so he got booted off in the first or the second round. Oh, wow.

Which was just, I thought, amazing. Even the greats fall hard. They do. Yeah. Go all over the place. Quite a range. Yeah. Can we talk about Julia and Julia for a little bit? Oh, yeah, sure. You were so fabulous in that. She's from here, Julia Child. I did know that, yeah. She lived out her life here. Yeah, such a great film.

Meryl Streep, you played her sister. Yeah. I've gotten to meet Meryl a few times. I've never worked with her. You've gotten to work with her a few times now. What is that like? Well, I didn't work with her on Only Murders in the Building, but I saw her around. But in doing Julie Julia, this is all me, this is not her. I felt like I was working with Queen Elizabeth in the way I was humbled and...

Careful of my decorum and just kind of that crazy stuff. It's like meeting the president. But there is something about her that is very regal. Yeah. And so Nora Ephron, who directed the movie, wanted me to come a day early. That too. That's also pretty incredible. Yeah. So I went a day early to watch. She said, I want you to see the world that Meryl has created. You know, how she's playing her and everything.

I got to see her do a scene with Stanley Tucci. And she went through the gamut of emotion. She was crying. And I was like, oh, okay, good. I mean, I kind of worked on it that way. Yeah. Kind of big and ooh. Yeah. Because they were known for being, they loved each other. But effusive and everything was, my goodness, this is wonderful. Yeah.

So, you know, when we did the first take of the scene where I get off the train and she greets me and she came running for me and I opened my arms and it was just a wonderful way to start this experience with her, actually meet our characters meeting. Yeah. And you're in instant love and you're in instant adoration, you know. Yeah. Through the vehicles of these characters and it made it so much easier for me. It's so interesting that you said that like there was...

I know, a sense of reverence around her. Because when I watched that film, you two just look like you've had a lifetime together. Yeah, thank you. I'm so glad. I mean, it's just...

There's so much love between you two and such a comfort level. Yeah. Like unspoken language. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's really great. Now, you know, Meryl's not a tall person. Mm-mm. And you are. Right. And they were both, you know, I know that they were both very— Julia was 6'2". Yeah. And the sister, she was 6'4". Uh-huh. Sister. And so with Meryl, they had her on—

like Herman Munster platforms. Yeah. And for some reason, optically, whatever the fabric of her dress was, they took that fabric and they covered the shoe with it. How interesting. Even though that wasn't a long... I don't know how it worked, but it did something that caused... Like an optical illusion? Yeah, that caused you not...

to see that she was wearing funky shoes. Oh, that's so interesting. Isn't that something? Yeah. And then they dug a little ditch for Stanley at one point. I was going to say, did they dig a trench for you? Yeah, they did. Not for me. I got to be at my full glory. But they lifted her up. Right. That's so funny. They put her on higher ground, if you will. Oh, my God. I love that. Because I think she's like 5'4", 5'5", 5'6", or something. Yeah, she's tiny. They were like the whole...

structure was created around her height. You talked a little bit about playing the king and the princess and the pea. And it started off your trajectory of playing men. Men's roles. Men's roles, yeah. Or roles that were written for men that they maybe restart. I know the role in 40-Year-Old Virgin was originally written for a man. You know, Sue Sylvester certainly had a masculine quality to her. Absolutely, yes. Disciplinarian. I also love that even though you are playing a woman in...

In Only Murders in the Building, you play Steve Martin's stunt double. Yeah, she's basically, if we were to, yeah, if we, you know, I think Sazh is, people would call her trans today. Uh-huh. I don't think she operates as a woman. Yeah. Except she has a very tender heart. Yeah. But men can have tender hearts too. Yeah. Yeah, I never, I didn't feel like I was playing a woman. Yeah, yeah. I was playing his stunt double.

My whole life was about him and protecting him. He was my raison d'etre for everything. So I was a guy. Yeah. Going out with the guys. Yeah. Branket the guys. How about the bar that they created that all of a sudden people go to called Concussions? Yeah. It's so good. It's so, so good. I was reading somewhere that you were talking about

Sue Sylvester. It's such a great part. I mean, first of all, I want to talk about the sort of genesis of that part, because from what I understand, Ryan Murphy wrote it for you or created that part for you. I feel like Glee needed a villain. And do you know kind of what the show was before you, before your character was involved with it? I don't.

I don't know what it was, but it was Kevin Reilly who was running Fox at the time, said, we need a villain. And from what I understand, I don't know if this is true, Ryan said, her name will be Sue Sylvester and she will be played by Jane Lynch, which flatters me to no end. I didn't know him that well. But Ian Brennan. I love Ian. Yeah, isn't he the best? He's great. He actually created Sue. Yes. The contours of Sue. And he wrote almost all of my lines. So it's kind of an Ian Brennan.

Yeah, yeah. I feel like I read somewhere that you said if Sue was around today, she would definitely be MAGA. Oh, absolutely. Now, wait a minute. I don't know that I said that. Let me think if I think that's true. Don't you think she would? Do you think she would? I think she's got more integrity. She's definitely conservative. She's mean. She's mean. She's cruel, but it...

She has, because she's a television character and no one can be totally mean on television and go from week to week. Yeah. She had a heart. Yes. And it was that cruelty was covering a really tender soul that had a Down syndrome sister. Yep. And her best friend at school was a Down syndrome student. And even when the chips were down for the gay kid, she stood up for him. But-

I don't think she'd be Magi. She might have started out and, you know, got a few good licks in before her conscience bothered her. I mean, you know, being a kid who went through high school, you know, queer as, as, as did I. And I, I certainly felt a great deal of, no, no, no, no, no. I didn't talk about it now. Um, but,

And I certainly felt a great deal of pride doing Modern Family and representing a gay couple on television. Something for kids to look toward and be like, oh, I can have that. Yes. That was very important for me. You know, what I did love so much about Glee and what I continue to love so much about Ryan Murphy is he really is such an advocate for representation. Yeah. And, you know, the stories about these gay kids and the stories.

this high school were such an integral part of, of what Glee was. You know, it was a group of outsiders, but also many of them were, were, were queer kids. Um, and you know, he's also obviously he's mentioned these Down syndrome characters that he's, he, he,

brought into Glee and also he's done such great work around, you know, with Pose and the trans community. I love the way he's constantly looking out for where we can find representation. But what did it mean for you to be playing such an integral part in that story? Yeah. Kind of as an adversary to these kids. I mean, you did say that she stands up for the gay kids and that's a soft spot for them. She was an adversary in a comical way. Like nobody really disliked or was afraid of Sue. Yeah. Yeah.

The audience. I mean, sometimes the kids were, and they should be. But, you know, she wasn't Hannibal Lecter. Yeah. You know? I certainly was so...

taken by it and it was one of those shows even though I was doing something at the time that felt like oh this is a cool thing to be a part of I was I felt it was such a special time to be a part of yeah that TV season because Glee was around too and I just kept thinking 13 year old Jessie would have been so lucky to have a show like this on TV that's how I felt the 13 year old Jane if she had Glee yeah oh my god I would have been

And I'm sure you too, obsessed with it. Just seeing kids your age going through stuff and then singing a song and people having your back. That was the big thing about Glee that was so, I think, emotionally compelling for kids. You know, the halls of McKinley High is like a metaphor for life. You get a slurpee in the face, you get thrown into the lockers, but when you're in that choir room, everybody's got your back. Yeah, yeah. And I think that the...

It's so funny. We're in such a cruel, we're back into like an even, like we're uber cruel now. Yeah. You know, society has been given permission to be mean and not care about each other. And I think it's just going to explode into a golden age of caring about each other. Yeah. It's a crazy time for sure. Yeah. Yeah.

But, you know, I love that, you know, entertainment can be that thing to remind you of like, oh, yeah, we can we can be kinder to one another. And it's something that's. It was such a simple little show and your show, too, was very real. And you got on each other's nerves. But at the end of the day, you were. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if you've ever told me how you and Jennifer met. You and Jennifer met.

We met in 2001 at a gay event at a gala, you know, like the Century City Hotel. Uh-huh. You know that room? Yeah, was it like an HRC event or something? Right, something like that. Okay. Yeah, with the round tables. Uh-huh, yeah. Paddles. Yeah, exactly, for the auction. Yeah, yeah. We were at the same table, and I thought she was adorable. At first, I was like, oh, she's not even gay. She looked like a straight little...

She actually had just been a straight housewife. Oh. Yeah, she had been married. Okay. And, yeah, so we started dating, and we dated for about two years, and we stayed friends. You know, we're not monsters. We're nice people. We were sharing a dog, and we both went on to...

do other things she went to Berkeley at the age of 50 and got two degrees and um I got married and got divorced and glee happened and um so it's about 2014 and she came back and I said well why don't you she said I don't know if I'm coming to LA or not and I said well why don't you just um you know stay with me and figure it out so she didn't she never left really yeah

Wow. Yeah. So we're just, you know, real easy, real, real honest, you know, really, really wonderful relationship. I'm so happy for you. Me too. You are married, right? Yeah. We got married here in 2020. Okay. In Santa Barbara. Where did you, what'd you do? At the courthouse, which is so sweet. Have you ever seen the courthouse? It's so cute. And her son, he's 32. He lives with us, Harry, and he's a real sweetheart. And he,

read the vows or he was the officiant. Oh, that's sweet. He got his, what is that? The Universal Life Church? That's right. It's so easy to get, by the way. Yeah. You literally go to like, I want to marry someone.com. I know, it comes back and they go, dear Reverend Lynch. That's right. That's right. I had to get one for Sarah Hyland. I married Sarah Hyland and her husband, Wells. It was supposed to be Ty Burrell, actually. And then last minute, he couldn't travel in from Salt Lake City. And so with like over, it was like two weeks before the wedding.

Sarah was like, can you, would you be able to do this? Of course you have to say yes. I was already going to go. I couldn't say like, oh, I couldn't lie and not be able to get out of town. I'm literally going to the wedding. So she's like, instead of just coming to the wedding, will you actually marry us? And so I got my license and

You had to write out the script. Did Ty have the script written out? I said, can you fast track this for me and just like, let me know what maybe you were going to say. And maybe I can use some of your jokes because he's incredibly funny. And so I stole some of his jokes, but I also took my own, my own ceremony from when I was

when I got married to Justin and used some pieces of that as well. It's just stuff that I love that was written for that ceremony. So it was a group effort, but yeah. Oh, that's so nice. Oh, how lovely. It was nice. Yeah. Thanks for doing this with me. Oh, my pleasure. Thanks for bringing me to one of your hot spots. Yeah, sure. ♪

Thank you again to Nissan for sponsoring this special episode of Dinners on Me. Learn more about the all-new Nissan Murano at NissanUSA.com. This episode of Dinners on Me was recorded at Trelune in Montecito, California. Next time, we'll be talking about the all-new Nissan Murano.

Next week on Dinners on Me, you know him as Pacey from Dawson's Creek and more recently as Dr. Max Bankman on Ryan Murphy's medical drama, Dr. Odyssey. It's Joshua Jackson. We'll talk about being a teen heartthrob, dealing with imposter syndrome and rebuilding his life after a major loss. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners on Me Plus.

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Dinners on Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and A Kid Named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Alyssa Midcalf. Sam Baer engineered this episode. Hans Dale Shee composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tamika Balance-Kalasny and Justin Mikita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.