MICHAEL URIE — on the unexpected longevity of his ‘Ugly Betty’ character and being Harrison Ford’s costar on ‘Shrinking’
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My dive buddy just kind of started like whacking me underwater and then he didn't know how to tell me that there's a shark so he's trying to scream shark and then eventually he just went with singing the Jaws theme tune.

Hello, I'm Hannah Stipfel and I host a podcast called Oceans Life Underwater. If you haven't listened before and you're interested in the fascinating world of turtles and whales, then we might just be your new favourite podcast. To join us, just search for Oceans Life Underwater wherever you're listening to this.

Hi, it's Jesse.

Today on the show, you know him from his award-nominated role as Brian on the Apple TV Plus series Shrinking, or as Wilhelmina's sassy assistant Mark St. James on ABC's Ugly Betty, it's Michael Urie. Supposedly, when they broke down the set of the magazine, Mode Magazine, the set here in LA when they broke it down, someone had taken a shit in the elevator. This is Dinners on Me, and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson.

I had the good fortune of meeting Michael Urie shortly after I moved to Los Angeles. Now, I kind of came to L.A. kicking and screaming. I was excited to start work on my first television show, but I also really didn't want to leave New York City. It was a very tough transition for me. Now, something that made it a lot easier was finding other theater people, other New Yorkers who happened to be on the West Coast. And Michael was one of those people.

He had just started working on Ugly Betty, and we met through mutual friends, and I just really liked the guy. I was so happy to know a fellow Los Angeles newbie who was also figuring out the ropes of this new city and of the Hollywood industry.

The fact that Michael and I have never actually worked together blows my mind. I did a few episodes of Ugly Betty, and he did an episode of Modern Family, but our scenes never overlapped. And a few times I have been offered parts and plays that Michael was unable to do and vice versa. The way our careers have intertwined with each other while never allowing us to actually work with each other has developed a very unique and special bond between us, I think.

Now, Michael is such an intelligent and creative actor. So you know what? If people think of us in the same breath, I consider that a huge compliment. Michael has mostly relocated to the East Coast, where he is carving out an incredible stage career, turning in brilliant performances from his solo turn in the play Buyer and Seller to Sir Robin in the musical Spamalot.

Michael, alongside his co-star Sutton Foster, recently brought their inspired performances in the revival of Once Upon a Mattress to Los Angeles. I was able to grab Michael for a pre-theater meal in downtown L.A. while he was in town doing the show. Now, incidentally, Michael and his former co-star Becky Newton are about to start their own Ugly Betty rewatch podcast called Still Ugly. So I was excited to, you know, give Michael a little practice run in front of a podcast mic.

Oh, and one more thing. Just this past weekend, only a few weeks after we recorded this episode, Michael won the Critics' Choice Award for Best Supporting Actor in a Comedy for his role as Brian in Shrinking. So naturally, I plan to start every conversation with him now by casually referring to him as award-winning Michael Urie. New York, New York!

Hi. Hi. How are you? Hello, hello. I brought Michael Urie to Cortez at Sendero on the 24th floor of the Ritz-Carlton in downtown Los Angeles. Yes, very fancy, I know. It's the kind of spot I'm adding to my list when I want to impress someone, but I don't want them to feel like I'm trying too hard. You know, it has this beautiful Baja vibe to it, featuring items inspired by the Sea of Cortez and traveling south down the South American coastline.

There's the textured flavors of Oaxaca, empanadas from Argentina, and Peruvian scallops, to shed out just a few items. Being on the 24th floor of the Ritz-Carlton, there's also panoramic views of Los Angeles. Downtown LA is one of the handful of spots in the city with buildings this high. It offers a vantage point that just cannot be beat. I thought Corteza at Sendero would be the perfect place to impress my out-of-town pal, Michael Urie. Okay, let's get to the conversation.

Are you enjoying me back in L.A.? Yeah, and it's really cool doing a show in L.A. Have you ever done theater here? I did Spelling Bee here when I first moved to L.A. and I was doing the class. So that's the only time I've done theater here. I go to see theater all the time. Yeah.

But I've never actually, I mean, and that was, we actually were performing at the Wadsworth Theater, which is this tiny little theater in Brentwood. So at least here, there's more of like, I guess this is where our theater quote unquote district is, but you've, and it's a huge space, the Amundsen. Huge.

Hi, Kay. Hi, welcome. This is Michael. Hi, Kay. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you as well. Is this both of your first times joining us in Sendero? Michael's a... She was just here yesterday. No, you've been... Yeah, but this is our first time. Well, would you like me to go over our concept a little bit? Absolutely. Lovely. Well...

This is Cortezza inside Sendero, and Cortezza's designed to be a culinary journey down the Pan American Highway. So what you're going to experience is food everywhere from Baja California, Mexico, going all the way down through South America. - Are there things that you recommend that we should try? - Oh, too many things. - Okay. - But I can narrow it down a little bit. - Michael has a show. He has to fit into tights in like three hours. - Okay. We'll keep it lightish then. - But we're hungry, right? You're hungry. - But I'm also hungry, yeah.

To start, I would suggest something like our ceviches. Personally, I love the tiradito. It's scallops layered with pressed plums. We change that depending on what's great in the farmer's market and stone fruits are in season. And then it is...

swimming in an aji amarillo sauce, which gives it a little bit of a tart, a little bit of spice, but a great flavor all around. - Awesome. - Then if we wanna move into something a little more hearty, I would say our barbacoa. It's a fan favorite. If it had a bone to fall off of it would, it is so tender.

And then I would also suggest if you want to go back to seafood, the encacado de callo is scallops in a vegetable coconut broth with dried quinoa. And then it has a little bit more of that aji sauce for a little bit of that little Peruvian spice. - Sounds incredible.

That sounds incredible, yeah. Lovely. Would you like still or sparkling, sir? Still, please. Do you have like any, like a non-alcoholic effervescent beverage? We do. We have two different ones if you would each like to try one. Let's do that. Let's do it. Let's try one, yeah. Perfect. Yeah, surprise us.

I don't know if I've told this story, but I was just thinking about this as we were ordering. When we were doing Spelling Bee on a matinee day, because I'm thinking about like eating before a show. Yeah. The Palm across the street did this like big lobster dinner and they invited us to come over. And so we had this incredible lobster dinner between shows. And then we came back that evening to the evening show and like,

You shouldn't have a lobster dinner on a two-show day between shows. We were just, like, shitting. Michael? I had the worst gasp. I was like, oh, my God, I'm going to poop my pants. And I remember there was a point on stage where me and Sarah Salzberg, Sarah was sitting on the bleachers, you know, in character, but the focus wasn't on us. And Sarah's a really great improviser, and, like, you just do not want to, like—

get into any sort of like light conversation with her on stage. Cause she's just going to make you die laughing. And also her character had a lift. So everything she would say would like come with a lift. And I sort of, as character would whisper to Sarah, cause no one's looking at us. I was like, I really, I really have to go to the bathroom. And she goes, Oh gosh, you know, if you have intestinal things going on, my father, my dad's always say like, it's really bad to keep it in. You just got to let it out. You just, she's making me laugh. I basically fart on stage.

And it's so close to the audience. Someone in the audience goes, ew. Oh, no. And so that makes Sarah start laughing. She starts peeing herself. This is all, like, on stage while the focus isn't on us, but, like...

Then Dan and Celia come back to join the scene and we're just like, Sarah's wet. There's like an odor in the air. It's the cloud, green. Oh my God, you both lost control. We both lost control of our bowels. That's so good. That's really good. I find that like that whole poop thing, it's a real important part

- Yeah. - When you're doing a play, like figuring your poop out is so important. - Absolutely, totally. - And figuring your food out. - Yeah. Ooh, what are these? - Well, we have two options, depending if you're feeling light refreshing or if you're feeling a little spicy.

Oh. And I can do this. I'll do the spicy one. Okay. And you can try mine. Sounds good. I love it. Enjoy. Thank you. Cheers. Thanks for having me. I'm so happy you're here. I was just saying, I got to know you in this city. I think the reason I fell in love with you so much when we first met was I knew you were a theater actor. Do you remember where we first met?

It was through Luke McFarlane, right? His birthday party. Yes. And he was like, my friend Michael's going to come. He was in my class at Juilliard.

And I was like, oh, yeah, he's the guy. You had already gotten Ugly Betty, I think, at that point. Yeah, I think I was out to start shooting. Right. Because I remember meeting America Ferreira at one of the first parties I came to. We all basically came to L.A. at the same time. Her boyfriend at the time, now husband, Ryan, had this epic Halloween party that was right out of a John Hughes movie. And I remember Luke being like, she's famous, right?

Because she'd been in Real Women and Curse. She'd been in a couple of movies. And then when Ugly Betty happened, we were shooting the pilot. I knew that I was going to mention that when I met her. And we met in the makeup trailer. And Ryan was there. And I was like, I actually met you once before at a Halloween party. And Ryan goes, were you the iPad guy?

And I, no wait. Had you dressed as an iPad? iPod. What am I thinking? He said, were you the iPod? And I had dressed as an iPod that night. It's the greatest Halloween costume I ever did. And he remembered it. That's incredible. Our first to enjoy. This is the Chirurito. Gorgeous. And our Aji Amarillo sauce. Thank you. Beautiful. Enjoy.

Yeah, so I remember meeting you at that time and also just being like, okay, he's a theater guy. I feel like these are people I need to keep in touch with and stay in touch with. And then I don't know if we really ever saw each other again until I guest starred on Ugly Betty as Dr. Farkas. As a dentist. As a dentist, yeah. Orthodontist, I guess. Yeah, that's right. But that was here, right? Mm-hmm. And it was Kristen Chenoweth who was my... Dental hygienist. Dental hygienist who took over the role. And then I did come back.

When I was doing Modern Family and you were shooting in New York at that point. Yes, when ABC was all in the family. And you did that great farce episode with Judith in their house. That's right. Such a great episode. Yeah, it was really good. That was fun. I also just remember...

Because that show started kind of around the same time that... That was the class. Yeah. Yeah, totally. And I remember how just buzzy and electric that time felt for me. Yes. So vivid, right? Yeah, yeah. And I imagine that was your first big TV thing. First anything, really. I had done one pilot and some commercials. How soon after Juilliard was this? It was...

Juilliard, I graduated in 2003 and we shot the pilot of Ugly Betty in 2006. So pretty soon. I had done a pilot, one pilot, and then the next year...

Came up short. And then the next year was the pilot of Ugly Betty. But I was a co-star in the pilot. And I had to convince my reps to let me audition for it because they were like, no, you do series regular roles. And I was like, I did one and it didn't get picked up and I've never been on TV again. So just let me audition for this role.

this little thing. And was it just because they loved what you had done or was there a conversation with the creators like this could be something bigger or that they brought the character back? It was really because of Vanessa Williams because I played her assistant and

And the idea was that she was going to have a different assistant every episode. That she was so impossible to work for that everyone quit. Right. And so it would be like a sight gag every time you'd go by her office. It would be some new person. And I think actually knowing that gave me a lot of courage and freedom because I didn't, you know, I wasn't.

about, I was like, well, this is the gig. Right. I don't have to worry about getting fired or replaced or, you know, because I'm not going to be... Because your character will be fired and replaced. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Right, exactly. And so I was just so free and, you know, trying anything. Yeah. And...

I remember that there was a scene where I was giving her Botox. I was like injecting her forehead with Botox in the office. And that was the audition. And in the audition, we were about to start and I'm sitting, you know, sitting in front of a camera in an audition room. And I just like leaned forward like this and they burst out laughing. And I was like, oh, they like, they like big, you know. Yeah. So I was just trying anything. And I had this idea that I would,

emulate her physically. I would like, I would like mimic her and try to, cause like I wanted to be her, wanted to be like her. So she would do, if she would do something, I would do it. She would sit down, I would sit down and she didn't know I was doing it cause I was behind her. And somebody ratted me out. Some, somebody on the crew went up to her and was like, do you know what that queen's doing behind you? He's mimicking you. He's mocking you behind you. And she came over to me and she's like, Hey,

I hear you're doing me behind me. And I was like, well, this is it. I'm getting fired. And I said, yeah, sorry. And she goes, what else can I do that you can do? And so suddenly I'm pitching her physical ideas. And she liked me immediately. And she was so cool and easy, down to earth. And she was a last minute hire. She replaced somebody that had been, like, go after the table read. Right. And...

You can imagine a role like that, essentially like the Anna Wintour of the show.

is, you know, like if it had been some diva that had all these ideas and came in with all these plans and then here I come. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But she was like, let's do this. This is good. Let's do what he's doing and let's play with him. That's incredible. And then she would say, like, scoot closer. You'll be in this shot. Like, you're not in the shot if you stand there. Stand here. And then by the end of the pilot shoot, they called me in an extra day to be in the photo. In the, you know...

The gallery shoots. Oh, that's incredible. It was crazy. And when did you know that they were going to put you in the rest of the show? So then...

And I was like, maybe they'll have me back. Who knows? But then I was like, well, don't get your hopes up. And I was a co-star. Not even a guest star. I was a co-star. So I made like $3,000. And I was happy as a clam. I covered rent for three months. So I just went off and I went to San Diego and did the Shakespeare rep for the summer.

And I was there doing three Shakespeare plays. And it was so great. And my friend Graham, who was tight with Ryan, America's boyfriend then, he came to visit. And he was staying and he was like, hey, congratulations on Ugly Betty. And I was like, what are you talking about? And he said, oh, it got picked up. And they're making you a series regular. Didn't you hear? And that's how I found out. How did he know? Because Ryan told him.

America told Ryan. America told Ryan and Ryan told Graham and Graham told me. That's incredible. And that's how I found out. That word went fast. That spread very quickly. I know. And so then I called my agent and I was like, hey guys, what the hell? And they're like, yeah, we did hear about this. And they were spiraling because I had no deal.

Right. You know, like when you do a pilot, you sign your life away for seven years. You do all that before you even go in for the final audition. Exactly. Before you even do a test deal. And I didn't do a test deal. I just like had a series of auditions. And so I had no deal. And so they were panicked. Interesting. And ultimately, because I had no deal, I was a guest star for the first...

13 episodes. And then when we got picked up for the back nine, you could make a deal. I, I, well, I, they didn't even give me a deal then I was in such a bad position. Yeah. Cause they kept saying like, take it or leave it, you know, we'll take it or leave it in hindsight. I probably had more power than we realized. Right. But I also, I sort of realized I actually, this is crazy.

I ended up firing my agents and my manager the same day because I knew I was stuck. I was stuck with this horrible deal. And everybody else had a great deal. And my role was as big as everyone else's. I mean, I had a huge role from the beginning. But I was like a guest star and I was getting paid like a guest star rate. Yeah, not a lot of money at all. Which especially compared to whatever. And especially compared to what like suddenly I had to do. The show was amazing.

massive hit. And it was a big out-of-the-gate hit. So the deal was, once you... Dan, sorry to interrupt you. You were a very popular character. Continue. Well, and I was in all these storylines because I was a nemesis to Betty and I was a sidekick to Vanessa. Yeah, you were integral. So I was like suddenly, immediately integral. And then when the show got picked up

for the back nine, I was bumped up to series regular then and they just doubled my top of show and that was it, which was still less than I'd made on that weird pilot. So I knew that my agents were not going to be able to get me anything because they had, so I had to fire them. I had to fire them and my manager and I fired them the same day and it was the day of the People's Choice Awards and you guys won.

The class one. That's right. The class one. And I think, but I think we were a drama. I don't think we lost to you. I think we, but we did lose. We lost to heroes or something like that. I remember thinking we were going to lose to 30 Rock and we didn't. We beat 30 Rock. We were technically a drama. Yeah, you were technically a drama because it was an hour. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. So we lost to heroes. Got it. Well, yeah. Yeah. Isn't that funny? Crazy. I fired them that day and we were together that night at that party or whatever, whatever that was.

Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Michael tells me about how he dressed to impress at his final audition for Mark St. James, the Ugly Betty revenge plot on the lot, and diving back into theater after a long stint on television. Okay, be right back. This episode of Dinners on Me is brought to you by Nissan.

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Now, you know I love a good brunch, whether it's a laid-back Sunday with my husband Justin and the kids or a full-on feast with a bunch of my friends. I just love it. And when it comes to putting together the perfect spread, Whole Foods Market is my go-to. They've got everything you need to make your brunch extra special. Smoked salmon? Check. Buttery flaky quiche? You bet. And don't even get me started on the fresh berries. I said don't. Seriously, don't get me started on them. Oh, you already did. Okay.

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And we're back with more Dinners on Me. Was it scary for you to have this huge opportunity and also be like having such a shifting of the guards with your management and agent? Or were you excited by that and the possibility? Because you did have a nice job to fall back on. I luckily had a job. That's a good time to do it. It's interesting. I mean, like normally these steps are done, you know, between jobs when you're, you have a pilot and then like you get something else, like you're trying to climb that sort of

trying to get what you're worth and have people hustling for you. But it's interesting that that happened in the process of a job actually happening. Yeah. Yeah. I've actually never heard of that. It was unfortunate because they weren't bad. They weren't a bad agent and a manager. I've seen them around and it's cordial. But I think the reason that they didn't want me to do the co-star, not only is it no money...

You have no protections. They couldn't have guessed that I would become... Right. That it would turn into what it turned into. But it was, you know, I used to get the breakdowns illegally. I used to, like, somehow get the casting breakdowns. And I saw this role, and I said, please submit me for this. Are you serious? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so...

Remember the breakdowns that used to be like, the main characters would have a breakdown this long. Yeah, yeah, yeah, like three paragraphs long. Exactly. And I would read it and I'd be like, yeah, yes, yes, yes. No, no. By the end, it's not. By the end, I was not. This was Mark, no last name, bitchy gay assistant. That's all it said? That's all it said. And I was like, I can get that. Yes, yes, and yes. And then I auditioned a couple times.

Oh, maybe Silvio was there. I think Silvio was in my list. Silvio was the creator, yeah. Silvio Orta, our creator. And he was super sweet. And then I was about to have my third audition, and a friend called, my friend Liz Kaplow called, and she was really close with Tiffany Canfield. Remember her? Yeah, yeah. Who was in that office. That's right. Who's now out here. And she said, listen, you have a big callback tomorrow, right? And I was like, yeah. She's like, all right, listen, Tiffany just called me and said that you...

This is yours to lose. And I was like, okay. Oh my God. And she's like, but this is the thing. You have to wear a suit. And I was like, okay. She's like, you got to wear a suit. They're just not seeing you in the world. Of high fashion. Of high fashion. Because I was going in dressed like, you know. Right. Like a poor actor that I was. And so I went and spent my last pennies on a suit. And...

It was a Donna Karan DKNY. I had it for a long time. I don't have it anymore, but I kept it for a long time. It needs to be in the Smithsonian. And I wore that to my final callback. I got it. That's incredible. I know. I mean, it's incredible that it was such a hustle and it became basically something that was such a big break for you. I mean, so many things happened after that. Everything. It was everything. I mean,

You know, I always think of you as a New Yorker, but I met you here in LA. I mean, eventually Ugly Betty did move to New York for, I think, like two more years. And then before it was finished.

We did the pilot in New York, and then they moved the show here for two years. And then because of tax incentives, they moved it there. Back to New York. Back to New York. Right. It was exciting to move to New York because the show took place in New York, and it meant we were going to be able to shoot on the streets and really be close to the actual world of fashion. Right. But we lost the whole crew. Yeah. We had become a family, and it was a hit. Yeah. And they made the decision at the very end of the season, so...

The whole crew was planning on another season. Yeah. And that was a bummer. I remember how rough that was. Exciting and also disappointing. And did you know that, I don't know if I've ever told this story on the record, but supposedly when they broke down the set of the magazine, Mode Magazine, the set here in LA when they broke it down, someone had taken a shit in the elevator. Oh, wow.

The set elevator. Has it had like petrified or like, what do you call it? It like solidifies, like becomes a fossil. Really? Was it a fresh one? I think it was maybe. I don't know. I don't know. It was just somebody who was disgruntled, I guess. My God. Yeah. Why not? Rightfully. Yum. So first we have our scallops with that vegetable coconut milk broth and quinoa. Gorgeous. Then our build your own barbacoa.

Short barbecue here, you're mixed among four tortillas and sauteed root vegetables, as well as all of the toppings, pickled pearl onions, radish, lime, micro cilantro. These are a salsa mocajete and a salsa verde. We make all of our sauces and salsas here in-house. - Gorgeous. - Cool. Thank you so much. - It's incredible. - Did you have a desire to do film and TV? I mean, going to Juilliard, I imagine that theater was probably something that was at the forefront.

And obviously probably something that you did back in Plano, Texas, right? Yeah. Yeah. In high school. And I went to community college for a year. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Like once I discovered theater, I mean, I started as a kid wanting to make movies, be in movies and stuff. Okay.

Like direct movies. I wanted to be a director first. I would play with my action figures and imagine movies. And then getting into Juilliard was like, oh yeah, so I guess I'm going to do theater. And then when I got out, I started getting more heat doing TV than theater. It wasn't until I was gone...

Yeah. So did you not have any luck in TV at first? Michael, I didn't even know there was such a thing as callbacks in television because I never got one. Now, with theater, I would get callbacks and jobs. But on film and television, no, no, no, no. What they do in film and television is they just decide right then and there if you're right for the role. That's what I was telling myself. Yeah, I could not get a job.

But you definitely did a great job of, because I remember after Ugly Betty ended, you were on stage again pretty quickly. Oh, immediately. Even before. I started doing, I played Horatio to Hamish. I saw you in that. I saw you in that. First hiatus. Yes. My first hiatus from Ugly Betty. I got on stage as soon as I could. You both were great. That was down in San Diego? And Graham was in it. South Coast Rep. South Coast Rep. You're fantastic. We should say, for those who don't,

No, what we're talking about, Hamlet. Hamlet. And you played what role? I played Horatio. And Hamlet's played Hamlet. Dan Sullivan directed it. That's right. I think, you know what it was? Is that I was about to go do Midsummer Night's Dream with Dan Sullivan. And that's what it was. And I was like, I got to go see Dan's play. And I know these guys that are in it. And that's why I was, that was like the impetus.

You've done a lot with Dan, right? A few shows. Graham and I used to joke, he would come over and give us a note, and as he walked away, we'd be like, I love you, Dad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know who I feel that way about? Someone we both have worked with, and I just worked with yesterday. Jimmy Burroughs. Ugh.

Did you do Midsentry Modern? I did an episode of Midsentry Modern, right. Yeah, he's such an I love you dad. I know, totally, totally. An icon, you know, director of everything from Taxi to MASH to Cheers to Friends and Will & Grace. And every pilot. Every pilot. He was pilot of Night Court, Frasier. Yeah. And every Will & Grace, every Cheers. Did you do every class? Yes.

He did every episode of The Class, yeah. The show I did with, I did a show that was 13 episodes. He did every, every. Partners, right? Partners. That was Max Manchek and David. Yes, yes. Was it fun? Yeah, it was great. Matt Bomer, Linda Lavin, Nathan Lee Graham. It's incredible, yeah. They had Judd Hirsch on as a guest star the week before. It felt very special and very buzzy. I'm so happy for Max and David. I'm also really happy that there's like,

people want to do multicam. No, well, that's just the thing. It's like, it feels like it is a bit of a relic. Yeah. And I think when it's done really well and, you know, with, with mid-century modern, they were able to, because it's on Hulu, it's,

They're able to, you know, cuss. It's like the reins have been let off. It's like Will and Grace on crack. It's so funny and so risque. Fabulous. Yeah, it's pretty great. I just did Night Court a couple weeks ago. Oh, you did? I got to go do this show that I grew up watching, and I would sneak on the set. I mean, it's not like theater, and it's not like single cam, but it is like there is that great thing when you make an audience laugh. That's a really cool thing.

Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Michael tells me about being fired by Friends creator Jimmy Burrows and working with Hollywood legend Harrison Ford. Okay, be right back.

Hi, it's Jesse Tyler Ferguson, the host of the podcast Dinners on Me. Spring is here, and you know what that means. Longer days, backyard hangs, and of course, firing up the grill. And when I'm planning a get-together, Whole Foods Market is my secret weapon for making it both fresh and effortless. Let's start with light or fair because, you know, sometimes you want something crisp and bright after those rich winter meals.

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And if you're planning on having some folks over for this barbecue, Whole Foods Market has everything from high-quality meats to the best side dishes like deli salads and charcuterie boards that instantly level up any gathering. Oh, and of course, don't forget the drinks. Their seasonal Italian sodas like Berry Blend and Orange Hibiscus are my new obsession. So whether you're keeping it light or going full-on feast, Whole Foods Market has you covered.

Make Whole Foods your destination for all spring gatherings. Make Whole Foods your destination for all spring gatherings. You don't wake up dreaming of McDonald's fries. You wake up dreaming of McDonald's hash browns. McDonald's breakfast comes first. And we're back with more Dinners on Me. Are there other, you know, being a fan of

sitcoms growing up. The Cosby show is one of my all-time favorites and Family Ties and all those great family sitcoms. Being able to do a multi-camera show in front of a live audience was such a bucket list thing for me. The other thing that I just did that I was like, oh, this is a huge moment for me is I got to do an episode of Wheel of Fortune. That's so fun. Have you had moments like that where you're just like... Being in a Broadway musical, I mean, that was like, never thought that would be possible.

because I didn't, I wasn't musical. I didn't have a natural talent to sing or dance. And so it took like being on TV and being funny on TV and then finding a character that was not unlike that character. So I played Bud Frump that my first musical was Bud Frump and How to Succeed who is not unlike Mark St. James on, on, um, Ugly Betty. Yeah. Um,

So that's kind of how I got in. Did you do that with Daniel Radcliffe? I did it with Nick Jonas. Nick Jonas. Yeah, I replaced Christopher Hanke. That's right. That's right. But I was supposed to be in it from the beginning. Yes. Do you know this story? I do know this story. Yes. I was supposed to be in it from the beginning and Jimmy Burroughs fired me. This is pre-Partners. Wait. Jimmy Burroughs fired you from How to Succeed? Because his dad wrote it. Right. Abe Burroughs wrote it. Yeah. Wait. This is good. So...

I did the workshop with Daniel Radcliffe. Okay. And they were, Craig and Neil, Craig Zayden and Neil Maron were the producers. And they were like, you're our guy. You're the guy. Don't book any other work. We're going to start rehearsal in six months or whatever. And I was like, great. I can't wait. I'm going to make my Broadway debut. Ugly Betty was just ending. It was perfect. And then literally like months go by.

And all of a sudden, somebody texts me and says, why am I auditioning for your role in How to Succeed? Oh, no. Yeah. Can you believe that? That's how it came down? That's how I found out. And so I call my agent, and they're like, okay, so here's the deal. You have to go back in because one of the rights holders wasn't there at the workshop, and they want to see you and Rose Hemingway, who was also cast from the workshop. Right. Right.

And I was like, okay. She's like, they're saying it's just a formality. You don't have anything to worry about. And I was like, okay. And so I go in, Rose and I go in, and it's Jimmy Burroughs. Jimmy Burroughs was the guy who... Jimmy Burroughs was the guy. The rights holder who hadn't seen it. Because Jimmy Burroughs' dad wrote the book. Yeah. And Jimmy Burroughs supposedly had never weighed in on any casting ever for his dad's musicals. He had never weighed in on any casting until this moment. Until this moment.

So I go in and I have to audition for Jimmy and Joe and the producers. And, you know, they're all there. And Rose auditioned too. And then I was going to, I had this like weird summer plan where I was going to go shoot a movie in Scotland and then do the Fringe Festival, do the Edinburgh Fringe Festival. And then come back and start rehearsal. And I'm literally on my way. I'm at the airport at JFK and my agent calls and she's like, they're going to fight it. But he said no.

And I was like, I'm getting on a plane. What are you talking about? And they're like, the producers are really pissed and they're going to fight. But it's a no right now. And Rose got a yes. Rose got cast that day. And I still, there's a shoeshine stand in JFK Terminal 5 that I still see that I sat in and cried. Oh my God. Because I was going to Scotland for this weird summer. And I was like, God. I mean, ultimately it was an amazing summer, but...

I probably would have made different choices at the end of Ugly Betty if I didn't think I was going to go beyond Broadway. And I tried everything. I wrote him a letter. Daniel Radcliffe went to bat for me. Wow. The producers tried and tried and tried. And they wrote me this beautiful email saying he's just dug his heels in. And then apparently he never waited on anything else again.

But it wasn't like, that was where he drew his line. And it wasn't between me and Christopher Hanke. Christopher Hanke came later. It was just me. It went back to the drawing board. Oh God. Yeah. Crazy. Right. And so then I went away, I came back, I started, you know, put my life back. I was so depressed, put my life back together. I had some good jobs in the, in the meantime. Yeah. And then Craig Zayden said, Christopher Hanke's leaving. Yeah.

Nick Jonas is coming in. We want you back. And I was like, what about Jimmy Burroughs? And he was like, we're not even asking him this time. So I got to replace. And that ended up being my Broadway debut. And then while I was doing How to Succeed on Broadway, Partners, the pilot, came up. That Jimmy Burroughs was directing. That Jimmy Burroughs was directing. And I was like, guys, this isn't going to happen. He hates me. I'm not going to audition for this. No, just audition. It's not his decision. Just audition. They're into you. They like this idea. They like you for this.

And I was like, all right, fine. I'll go. And I had to, he was at my test and I was like, there he is. There's that monster who hates me. Right. And I got it. And I loved him. I loved him so much. I ended up getting to work with him and, and we never really talked about it. We have, I was just, that was my next question. We talked to, he was like, I remember him being like, so you're still doing the show when, when we shut the pilot and he's still doing, how's it going? He knew that you had gotten, he knew I was in it. The,

The role. He knew that I was in it, but he didn't know. He was like, how's that Jonas boy? I like the checks I get. But we never talked about the fact that... Oh my God, Michael. I feel like if you ever have another encounter with him, you have to just ask him about it. Yeah, maybe now that I'm older, but then I was too nervous. And then I loved him so much and he was so great to me. And he gave me, like when we finished the pilot,

Because I would show up with ideas and I would be like, what if we tried this? What if we tried this? When we finished the pilot and he's like, listen, I don't know if this goes. I don't know if I'll be doing it or not, but don't ever stop coming up with ideas. And it was great advice. I love that. And his crew really is like they're an extension of him. I mean, I just worked with him last week on Mid-Century Modern and the crew

There's so many people in the crew that I remember from the class that had already been with him for 15 years. You know? I mean, that loyalty doesn't exist in that same way in really any medium anymore. It's really beautiful to see that still happening. Yeah. It takes, like, a true powerhouse to be able to staff them. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

Bill Lawrence, who's the shrinking creator, he does that. But you don't see that very often. You don't see people who've been with the same group

But it's nice to see that because you know, like, if these people have stuck it out. Yeah. Can we talk about drinking a little bit? Yes, I'd love to. I love it so much. Oh, thank you. It's really so great. I mean, I love Bill Lawrence. I think he's so incredible. I love Scrubs. Yeah. You know, that was when I first fell in love with him. Spin City. Is that it? Spin City. Yes, please. Beautiful. What's happening? Are you going to light this on fire? Possibly. A little show. All right.

This is the Dia de los Muertos. - Ooh. Oh! Oh my God, look how beautiful that is. - Oh, it's so gorgeous, little skull. - Now what you have here is a hand-painted white chocolate skull filled with a cheesecake-inspired mousse and an apricot chamoy center.

It is resting on a bed of dark chocolate cocoa nib soil surrounded by almond brittle with a rompope crema and more of that apricot chamoy. It would have taken me three months to memorize what you just said. Any coffees and teas for you gentlemen? Do you need a coffee? I'll take a coffee. Coffee? I'll take a little coffee, yeah. Lovely. Thank you. Yes, please. Thank you. What has it been like working with Harrison Ford? First of all, that whole cast is incredible. Oh my God.

Krista Miller. Krista Miller is so good. God, she was, I just watched the last, the episode 11 last night. She's so funny. She's so funny. So great. Harrison's awesome. He's, he loves acting so much. He loves to work and he has this really interesting, you know, I asked him once if he, cause we were talking about theater and I asked him if he ever had any interest in doing a play and

and he said no because he doesn't like to repeat himself he doesn't like to he doesn't like doing the same thing every day right which is you know why being a movie star is so good for him because you don't do that you don't it's different every day and and i would say that that

is how he works too. You know, like even on a show, like a series where you're kind of, you're not doing the same thing, but it's like, it is similar scene, you know, like a scene in an office, scene in a cafeteria, you know, like you are going back to the same kind of locations and issues and, you know, but he looks at every scene, like he starts from the beginning.

Like it's, okay, what is this scene? What is this scene about? And it's really cool. I mean, I can see why theater would be hard for him, that he would lose his patience because he wants to...

do something new every time. Yeah. He wants there to be like a new adventure. Yeah. We had a long car scene with Harrison. Jason Siegel and I had a long car scene with Harrison where we were in a car all night. Yeah. We were in a process trailer, you know, and they like put a car on top of a little low bed trailer. So they drive you around and you just ride in the back of the car. And you're like lit up like a Christmas tree. And

I was like, hey, you guys are movie stars. Why do they call it a process trailer? And they were like, I don't know. And then Harrison was like, I got to show you this process trailer we had on Indy. Because he'd just done the last Indiana Jones movie. And he pulled out his photo. He's like, we had motorcycles. It's really cool. Let me show you.

how do I find photos of this? What is this? Damn it, I can't find it. Then we'd just roll. He's like, look at this fish I caught. It was so funny. And he's just an 82-year-old man with an iPhone and a billion dollars. And so many stories, I'm sure. God. And then because we were lit up like a Christmas tree, we were driving around, people would scream at us. And somebody was like, Jay-Z!

Oh my God, Jason. And Jason turned to Harrison and was like, did you hear that? And Harrison was like, that really hurts my feelings. And then a few minutes later, somebody else screamed.

Like, it was like, yes. And I was like, that sounded like a gay guy. I think that was my fan. Yeah, that was for you. And Harrison said, he was like, I've got gay fans. And I was like, yeah, I know, because of Working Girl. Yeah, of course. Dude, absolutely. Oh, my God, Working Girl. Oh, the best. Yeah. That was my first in with him. When we had a scene together, I was like, I want you to know that Working Girl is gay canon.

Yeah. And he was like, he understands, right? He, he, he was like, he, he didn't quite understand. He was like, what do you mean? And I was like, he's like, Oh, cause of Alec. I'm like, not because of Alec, Alec Baldwin, the brilliant writing because, because of the, it's incredible writing and it's,

Three powerhouse women. Melanie Griffith, Joan Cusack, and Sigourney Weaver. They're like gay men. They're basically drag queens. And he was like, yeah, they are. It was very, very cool. But I do want to say congratulations on a Critics' Choice nomination. Thank you. Wow. That's crazy. The only other nomination I have is...

three Teen Choice Award nominations. You probably have. I don't have any. Surfboards? No? I don't have a surfboard, no. Oh, my gosh. But it's so deserved. I mean, you're really, really incredible on the show. Thank you. And it's such a great show. I mean, thank you. I mean, I honestly can't believe it. It was such a surprise. And also bittersweet because it's the only nomination that the show got. Yeah. But it's also, you know, like...

then, you know, the wealth has spread, which is good. And it's like, I just didn't expect it. I mean, I didn't, I wasn't even thinking about it. I didn't know it was coming that day. That's the best way to happen. Literally everyone is standing up for this. I feel like there's so much more we could talk about. We could go, we could do a two-parter. Listen, we're going to do a two-parter. I'm just going to follow you to the theater and we'll continue this in your dressing room. ♪

This episode of Dinners on Me was recorded at Corteza at Sendero inside the Ritz-Carlton in downtown Los Angeles. Next week on Dinners on Me, you know her as the director of The Last Showgirl. It's Gia Coppola. We'll get into growing up in such an esteemed filmmaking family, the movies that inspire her, and her COVID-era meet-cute with her artist husband.

And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners On Me Plus. As a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen completely ad-free. Just click Try Free at the top of the Dinners On Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today.

Dinner's On Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and A Kid Named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Angela Vang. Sam Baer engineered this episode. Hans Del Schee composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tamika Ballans-Kolasny and Justin Mikita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.