Patricia Clarkson — on being childfree and why equal pay shouldn’t be political
46:09 Share

This episode of Dinners on Me is brought to you by Huggies Little Snugglers. Huggies is the only leading brand with all-around blowout protection for sizes 1 and 2. All of my parents out there know there is nothing worse than a blowout. And listen, when Sully was a newborn, I thought I was ready for anything. I had the diaper bag packed, the burp claws folded, the white noise machine was charged. What I wasn't ready for? A blowout in the car seat in the

I will spare you the details, but it was cinematic. After that, we switched to Huggies Little Snugglers, and honestly, I wish we had sooner. These diapers gave us peace of mind when we needed it most. You shouldn't have to live your life worrying about how you'll deal with the next inevitable blowout. Huggies Little Snugglers are up to 100% leak-proof, with blowout protection in the front and back for sizes 1 and 2, so you can actually leave the house without fear.

Huggies Little Snugglers, the only leading brand with low-watt protection in every direction. Huggies, we got you, baby. So I'm here in London, knee-deep in rehearsals for Here We Are at the National Theater, the late, great Stephen Sondheim's final musical. And it's been an incredible experience so far, but between the long days of learning lyrics and blocking scenes, I've come to appreciate a good system that makes everything run smoothly, like Airbnb's co-hosting feature. And I'm here to tell you that

Now, if you're a host and you're juggling life like I am right now, a local co-host can handle the details while you focus on your big projects. They can manage guest communication, check-ins, and everything in between. So whether you're hosting while traveling or simply need some help, you can rest easy knowing someone reliable is looking after your place. And the best part? These co-hosts are local pros who know your area inside and out, ensuring your guests have an unforgettable stay, and you can focus on what matters most.

So whether you're looking to host or need a hand while you're away, find a co-host at airbnb.com slash host. Hi, it's Jesse. ♪

Today on the show, you know her from her Emmy Award-winning role in HBO's Sharp Objects, and more recently as a trailblazing equal pay activist in the film Lily, it's Patricia Clarkson. Because I've played a lot of drug addicts. You have. And yet I've never done any drug in my whole life. I've never even smoked pot. I've never been high. Really? Never been high. Really? No. But the day is young. This is Dinners on Me, and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson.

Patricia Clarkson, or Patty, as her close friends and colleagues call her, is one of those rare performers whose presence elevates everything she touches. Now, I've admired her for as long as I can remember. Her career is a masterclass in range, nuance, and taste.

Whether she's lighting up the screen in an indie drama, commanding the stage in a Broadway play, or stealing scenes on prestige television, Patty brings intelligence and depth that's just unmistakable. She has a knack for choosing projects that feel elegant and human and resonant. If her name is attached to something, you can bet it's going to be a high-class affair.

Born and raised in New Orleans, Patti carries that unmistakable blend of Southern warmth and Northeastern sophistication. She went to the Yale School of Drama because, well, of course she did. And her work reflects both rigorous training and a lived-in emotional authenticity. She's like the personification of an expensive candle. She's elegant, intense, and she smells amazing. And somehow, she's always bathed in perfect mood lighting.

Now, one of her oldest and dearest friends is the celebrated playwright Richard Greenberg, whose Tony Award-winning play, Take Me Out, remains one of the great American works of the 21st century. I had the incredible fortune of being part of the recent revival of this play, and through that process, I got to know Patti a little bit better. Watching her navigate this world, not as a star, but as a fiercely loyal friend, was something I will never forget.

Her stories, insights, and reflections about Richard Greenberg gave me a deeper understanding of the man behind the beautiful, complex words I had the privilege of performing every night. Patti is the kind of person who can whisper a perfectly timed bone-dry aside one moment and deliver a profound emotional truth the next. She's equal parts intimidating and disarming, like if Katharine Hepburn and a French existentialist had a very fancy baby.

Look at those shoes! Well, I dressed up, you know, sometimes, well, I was in these killer shoes last night. These are actually like slippers compared to the damn Louboutins I had on last night.

I brought Patricia Clarkson to Elefante in Santa Monica. Elefante is the vision of Nick Mathers and the Wish You Were Here group, a hospitality and lifestyle group built on creating unforgettable dining experiences inspired by travel. And dining on the rooftop at Elefante really did feel like we were transported to a coastal cliffside in Sicily.

The ambiance alone is worth the visit, but the food completely seals the deal. Every dish is thoughtfully crafted with beautiful presentation, but the whipped eggplant, their signature dish, is definitely a standout. Between the perfect ocean view, golden hour glow, and decadent pasta, everything about my dinner with Patty was absurdly romantic. It almost felt like a waste to not have ended our night with a kiss. Okay, let's get to the conversation.

You're at the Oscars? Well, you were at the Vanity Fair party. The Vanity Fair, yeah. I go to the dinner and then just go right into the party. It's fabulous. I've never been invited to the dinner. I've been invited to the party afterwards, but I've never gotten invited to dinner. The dinner is fabulous. You don't have to. Oh, are we ordering food? Yes. Can we have alcohol? Yes. Oh, thank God. Well, I don't drink, but you drink. I know, but I need hair of the dog. I would love, yes. Okay, wait. I actually, I went to the Vanity Fair party one year. Yes.

when I was doing Modern Family and I, we were shooting in Culver City. We shot at the Fox Live. Right. In Century City. Yeah.

And the Vanity Fair party is in Beverly Hills. And so Justin and I, my husband and I, decided to get a hotel room in the area because I knew I had a 6 a.m. call. To go to Vanity Fair and then go to set the next day. And for some reason, having a hotel near-ish to work made me think that I could stay out until like 2 in the morning. No. No.

I arrived to work. I was like, yeah, I should be fired for the way I've arrived to work. I was not prepared for work. No, I mean, I woke up this morning realizing I had to do your interview. And I was like, oh, my God, I need a face transplant. I need an IV. First of all, it's just me. I need an IV and a stretcher. Oh, come on. Did you? So you stayed out late?

Yes, because I had friends in the hotel, and so I got back to the Chateau where I basically lived for 30 years, and I love the Chateau. And, you know, I knew a bunch of people there, and we were all hanging in a room and having—we just—I had a beautiful night last night. Yeah, it was very, very sexy. Very sexy. Yeah.

And very glamorous. I mean, it is quite a party. I remember, I mean, the first time I went to the Vanity Fair Oscar party, I was like, this is... First of all, it was my dream to always go to that. Yeah. Because, you know, you see the photos, you know...

roll out over the next few weeks after the Oscars. And I was like, oh my God, to be in that room. I wore my mother's wedding ring that I inherited. My mother passed away in June. Oh, I'm sorry. But I wore her beautiful diamonds. My mom just passed away recently too. It's tough. Mom's passing away is tough. I know. You know, and I think I'm over. I think I'm okay. And then like right now, I just go, oh,

You know, just even, but wearing her ring last night on the red carpet was beautiful. It's a beautiful wedding rings. It's nice here. Are you warm enough? Yeah. It's fabulous. Yeah. The ocean in the back. It's gorgeous. That is the ocean. Are you distracted by yourself? That is the ocean. Yes. Are you distracted by yourself? Are you yourself in the mirror? No, I can't. You know what's good? Is you're blocking me. Oh, good. And I like that. Yeah. You know, we look at ourselves so much as actors that I won't look.

I don't look at pictures. I've learned to like see what the shot is, but then I don't need to see like playback. No, I don't need like today. If you say I look good, I look good. Yeah. But it's like all the pictures from last night on the big red carpet and all that. I want to see the one of me kissing the dog and that's it. Oh, no, it's adorable. That's how I knew you were there. Selma's service dog was kissing you. I know. You know, it's so funny because I remember going once to the Emmys with Modern Family and

You all filter in and like they're showing shots of the red carpet inside the auditorium. I don't know if they do this for every award show, but they were doing it this year for the Emmys. They were showing people on the carpet. Right. But there was a bit of a delay. So, you know, they'd be like showing, you know, people arriving. But those people would actually be at that point inside the room. But they were showing them on the carpet still. And I remember Sofia Vergara coming in kind of late.

And she's going to sit down and then she's looking up and she's actually watching herself in an interview. And then they were talking about what she was wearing. Like they were like, just like kind of like dissecting her dress. And she's sitting right there watching herself being like dissected amongst her like peers. It's so Pirandellian. It was so weird. It was so crazy. Yeah.

How are you? I'm well, how are you? Nice to meet you, this is Patricia. So I'm so glad there's unattractive waiters. I know, I was going to say, find it. Yes, my goodness. Thank you. Thank you. So happy to be here, thank you. Thank you. Have you been to this before? I haven't. I haven't, no. Can I start with a, oh, maybe a Provence Rosé. It's not sparkling, that's the Provence, it's not. Oh, it's dry, it's dry and not sparkling. No? Yes, perfect. Perfect.

I see you have your own rosé, but that's sparkling. But I'll have... Or should I get the Vermentino? They're both excellent choices. I prefer the Provence, but... Okay, good. Okay, I'll go with your...

- Perfect. - Excellent, thank you. - Could I have this watermelon mint spritz? - Of course you may. - Oh, that sounds good. - And so just so you guys know, we're known for the whipped eggplant here. It's Puccia bread, it's Italian. It's this puffy bread that comes with eggplant dip. - Oh, that sounds fabulous. - It's really good. It's like our staple. - I love eggplant. - It's so good. - I think we could eat that. Do you like eggplant? - Yeah, that sounds great. We'll definitely do that.

Yeah, and I'll be here for you guys if you have any questions. All the food's good. Family style is a great way to go to share. Okay. Yes. Pasta's are made fresh daily in-house.

So I'll be here for you guys. Okay, thank you. Do you have any allergies that I should be aware of? Seafood. I'm allergic to seafood. I knew that. I'm allergic to anything. That's why we put it by the ocean. Yes. Let's see what swims on shore. I'd love to bring you some water too for the table. Sure. I prefer sparkling. I prefer flat. Excellent. I'm good with that too. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

Oh, I'm going to take my table. Where's my plate? You don't have a plate? Come on. He is handsome. I saw him walk in and I said, oh, Patty's going to like this. But he's beautiful. He is. He's not just handsome. He's beautiful. He's very good looking.

Yes, yes. I mean, is he on camera? I hope so. We'll have to make sure he is. He's an asset. Were you just in L.A. for the Vanity Fair? I flew in to go to a beautiful party celebrating Guy Pearce, who is such a great, great, great, great actor. He...

He just said, I'm going to throw Guy a party, you know, for his work in The Brutalist. And so I went to that on Thursday, and then I went to CAA party, which was packed. Packed. Packed. Yeah. But, I mean, it was sexy. There were some great people there. I like telling people, God, I love you, you know. I love you in this. Or telling them something odd that I know about them. Or something, some unknown movie probably that they wouldn't, that I've seen of theirs. Yeah. Yeah.

that I really loved. I like doing that. I always, I'm glad to hear you say that because I always find myself in those situations shy and like feeling like I shouldn't approach them. I will always remember you coming up to me after Take Me Out and just gushing and being so effusive and so wonderful. And like we had met before and we knew each other a little bit, but not well. And just because I'm such a fan of your work and I love you so much. So to hear it,

Even if you had said good job to me, that would have been like, oh my God, Patricia Clarkson told me I did a good job. So you just...

You know, it was it was being so effusive was so meaningful. It was honestly one of the greatest nights in the New York theater. And you were, of course, a major part of that. And I'll just never forget your performance and the other men that the direction Scott Ellis is just he's the bomb. You did Elephant Man with him, right? I loved every single minute of working with him. Yeah.

We started in, and I told Bradley, I have stage fright. I can't do it. And he goes, I will cure you of your stage fright. I was like, you have stage fright? I did. I don't anymore. But every step of the way, Scott Ellis was perfection. He's just, he's kind and soulful and kind.

He's genuinely so engaged. He's such a bro. You know, he's so butch. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, he is. But he has a really soulful side. Yeah.

To Scott Ellis. Scott Ellis. Yes, come on. He's a great director. I've gotten to know Bradley Cooper a little bit through Scott Ellis. And the last time I saw Bradley, he lives in the village next to Brooke Shields. Yes. Who's a buddy of mine. A friend of yours. She's so lovely. So lovely. Beautiful person.

Beautiful. Inside and out. Beautiful. I saw Brooke, and it was late at night. We were at a restaurant together, and she's like, do you want to? I'd never seen her house. And so she's like, do you want to come and look at the house? I was like, sure, let's go look. You know, she and Bradley are very close because they live right next to one another. Yes, yes. And in fact, ooh, this looks incredible. Oh, my God. Whoa. It's like a pillow. This is the whipped egg plant, y'all. Oh, my God.

Wow. That looks incredible. I think I need a plate and some silverware. So they're very close. I guess Bradley would come over every morning and have... They live right near... They share a wall. Yeah, they share a wall. And he would come over and he would have coffee in their kitchen every morning. Anyway...

she's showing me her house and I'm in her kitchen. And it's like, it's like midnight. And Brooke is like, I wonder if Bradley's awake. And she decides to peek her head around the corner of her backyard. And again, I do not know Bradley very well at this point. And she goes, oh yeah, he's up. He's watching TV. It's midnight. She's like, let's go knock on his window. I'm like, I don't know if this is a great idea.

Like, I know you're super close with him, but like, I don't know if he's gonna be thrilled to see me at his back window at midnight. Who wouldn't want you knocking? I would kill for you to knock on my door at midnight. I'd be like, get your ass in here. Anyway, it happened. I was like, I somehow got convinced to go knock on Bradley Cooper's back door at midnight. And his dog starts going crazy. And that's not a metaphor. No, no, exactly. It's not a metaphor. It's not a euphemism.

I knocked on Bradley Cooper's door at midnight. Anyway, he couldn't have been kinder. He seemed happy to see us. I was like, I'm so sorry. He was like watching late night TV. I don't know. He's watching like a Saturday Night Live or something. Anyway, lovely human being. He's lovely. And it's so, so talented. I agree. Let's taste this eggplant. Mmm. Is it great? Oh, that's fabulous. Oh, it is good. Mmm. Mmm.

Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Patricia tells me about her portrayal as Goodyear Tire whistleblower Lily Ledbetter in the new movie Lily and why its Hamptons debut was particularly emotional for her. Okay, be right back. All right, let's talk about something near and dear to my heart.

Building the perfect sandwich. And yes, yes, I take this very seriously. Step one, you need a great bread. Fresh, crusty, something with character. Step two, Boar's Head Oven Gold Turkey. Always. It's juicy. It's flavorful. It's the backbone of this operation. Step three, a few slices of Boar's Head Smoke Master Ham because I like to mix it up.

It adds a slow-smoked beechwood flavor that makes your taste buds just, you know, do a little dance. Step four, cheese. Sharp cheddar if I'm feeling bold, creamy Swiss if I'm feeling fancy. Step five, a swipe of Dijon, crisp lettuce, thin sliced tomato, and maybe a pickle or two, you know, for drama.

Layer it all up, cut it in half diagonally, obviously, and you got a sandwich that's perfectly crafted thanks to Boar's Head. Every bite tastes like it was made with care because it was. So if you're ready to level up your sandwich game, trust me, start at the deli counter. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite at your local Boar's Head deli counter. Boar's Head, committed to craft since 1905.

You know, Dinners on Me is all about gathering around a table, good food, great company, and, you know, feeling at home. But let's be honest, it's hard to really relax when you don't feel safe in your own space. And that's why I love Simply Safe. It's the kind of peace of mind that lets you focus on what matters, whether it's catching up over pasta with a friend or just enjoying a quiet night in.

I've been using SimpliSafe for a while now, and it really has changed the way I think about home security. Here's the thing, most systems kick in after a break-in, but SimpliSafe's new ActiveGuard outdoor protection actually helps stop crime before it happens.

Their AI-powered cameras and live monitoring agents detect suspicious activity, and if someone is lurking around, they'll speak to them in real time, shine spotlights, and they can even call the police. I mean, how proactive is that? No contracts, no hidden fees, just real protection. It's no wonder CNET named SimpliSafe the best home security system of 2025.

So if you want to protect your home while you focus on what makes it feel like a home, you know, family, friends, or the perfect roast chicken, SimpliSafe has you covered. Visit simplisafe.com slash jessie to claim 50% off a new system with professional monitoring plan and get your first month free. That's simplisafe.com slash jessie. S-I-M-P-L-I-S-A-F-E dot com slash jessie.

There's no safe like SimpliSafe. And we're back with more Dinners on Me. What are you thinking? Are you hungry? I'm not super hungry, but I might get some. It's a weird hour to eat. Yeah, and I'm getting on a red eye. Why do you have to fly back on a red eye? Do you have something tomorrow morning? I just got to get home. You just want to go. Mm-hmm. I get it. Get me out of here. I just arrived from New York at 9 a.m. this morning. We're passing ships.

You just got in. I just got in this morning. But you live here and New York. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You live, I'm not going to say where you live, but I ran into you coming out of your apartment. Oh, yeah. Remember? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I told you again how much I loved you in the take-me-out. That's right. Because I hadn't said it enough. My God, you're so wonderful. No. And truly, your effusiveness means so much to me. Wow. To finish, I thought that I was saying earlier about saying...

you know, hello to people or complimenting people who you are maybe you don't know super well or might be intimidated by. It's something I'm still learning to do because I always assume that the reaction is like, I don't want to hear this. Even though I've never not wanted to hear it from someone that I... Of course. That is in this industry. And I've been learning to just...

say the things I want to say to people, not expect anything. Sometimes people are more gracious than others, but it always feels good for me to just let someone know that their work is important to me. I mean, at Vanity Fair last night, there were so many people to compliment.

So many, but I met Chelsea Handler, finally. Oh, you've never met Chelsea? Oh, my God. Isn't she incredible? Oh, my God. First of all, she looked so gorgeous last night. Oh, my God. She looked so beautiful. I saw a picture of her, yeah. But Chelsea and I are, you know, we're unmarried. We're single. Yep. Childless women. And we love our lives. I know. And nobody can...

Take that away from us. Literally, Chelsea was just on this podcast a few weeks ago and we were having that very conversation. Yeah. Yeah, I adore her. But I finally met her and I said, you know, we are kindred spirits. And, you know, we just, we made our own decisions. We weren't pressured to live a life that we did not choose. Yeah, yeah. You know, and I'm a Southern girl. But my mother, my mother was cool about it. My mom and dad and my sisters.

My father would only ask me, are you happy? Uh-huh. And that's all he wanted to know. Are your sisters married? Yes. Yeah. Well, my oldest sister, like me, kind of a career girl. My three middle sisters have many children and many grandchildren. Okay. So there's lots of kids in the family. Many, many, many, many. And they are beautiful. My nieces and nephews, I'm very close to. I kind of worship them. And...

And when they were little, when I was first kind of making it, they were four and five. And they had the Pat Pat fan club because they call me Aunt Pat Pat. And they would wear little T-shirts when I come over, Pat Pat fan club. That's adorable. But they would see photographs of me, you know, like on a red carpet or something.

And they knew I was an actress and they kind of understood that. And I love going home. I'm going home to New Orleans soon. When I'm in New Orleans, my life feels complete. Yeah. You know? I mean, a lot of people, you know, are raised in one place, but then they move around a little bit and they don't have a really necessarily grounding city. But New Orleans really is that for you. Well, because I was born and raised there. My mother ran the city under the great mayor, Mitch Landrieu, saved it from Katrina, after Katrina, rebuilt it.

Talk about what your mom did with that. First of all, she was president of Louisiana Realtors. And then she became a state legislator. And then she really got to the heart of her soul, which is... Her heart and soul is the city. Is the city, the great city of New Orleans. And she became president of District C. Councilwoman of District C, which is the French Quarter. And Algiers. So I grew up in Algiers. I didn't grow up fancy. I didn't grow up uptown or in the Garden District. But my mother finally...

ran for District C because she had a grandmother, her Bubby, my great-grandmother, my Jewish grandmother, who lived in the French Quarter. So Bubby would hire a horse and cart to take them in their gowns, in their long gloves, like when my mother was like 12, 14, to take them to the opera, to take them to the ballet, to take them to the symphony. Wow.

And, you know, when after Katrina, my mother said, well, we're going to rebuild every single artistic venue in this city. This is the soul of this city, along with our music and our culture. So, I mean, you've always been involved in politics. You were raised in it. I got to watch Lily, which is your most recent film. Yes. Yes. The great Lily Ledbetter. You know, you see Lily.

This woman who really suffered such blows and kept getting back up, you know, she really... Fighting for equal pay. Fighting for equal pay. And, you know, the thing is, what's beautiful is the Democrats embraced her. But the real truth of this story is equal pay for women is not political. It's a right. It's just simply every single person in everyone's life benefits with equal pay.

Your partner, your spouse, your lover, your mistress, everybody wins when women make equal pay. Your children, most of all, but also your friends benefit. Because you're sometimes, you know, if you're making really great money, you can live a certain life. And to think that she was kept down. Yeah.

in a really tragic way. Her name is someone I remember hearing so much, specifically around the 2008 election with Obama and Hillary. She was campaigning for both of them. Oh, she was... Because she believed in their... Because they believed in equal pay. And the first...

Obama held to his promise, the first bill he passed was the Lilly Ledbetter Act. Yeah. Because he's, I mean, who would think this extraordinary black man from Hawaii loving this, you know, older southern white lady from Possum Trot, Alabama. Yeah. But they really got on. They really, they had a kindred spirit. And it moves me. Yeah, me too. To this day. It was incredibly moving. Yeah, we were in order. Cool.

We're always happy to have you come visit us. Yeah, we're always happy. I'm going to get the few ceiling. Okay. Okay. And can you leave off the breadcrumbs? Of course. But I will take some Parmesan on the top. All righty. Thank you. Thank you. I'm going to have the butternut squash agnolotti. Excellent.

Oh, that does sound good. What is it like? That's the opposite. You ordered, like, a really healthy pasta. Like, you were withholding a lot. This does not withhold anything. We got...

There's a lot of naughty things in this butternut. It's like pockets. Exactly. It's stuffed with squash and mascarpone. A lot of butter, right? Yes. I have to get on a plane. What does that have to do with it? Stop making excuses. I have to get on a plane. No, but I think the fusilli looks good. I think it's going to be great. No breadcrumbs.

And the agnolotti. Thank you so much. Thank you. Are you guys enjoying the eggplant? Oh, this is extraordinary. It's great. So, but anywho, you know, the beautiful part of Lily, you know, the love of her life played by the great John Hickey. Love him so much. How good, he's so lovely. He's so good. He's effortless. He really is. He did an episode of Modern Family. He played the therapist to one of the kids and it was this really long, basically like a four page scene where there was no jokes. Wow.

And it was actually the first time that, you know, we were learning about this Ariel Winters character, like just the difficulty she's having as like a middle child. And it was just, she was bouncing these ideas off of John and it was such a beautiful scene. And it really stood out as just some, I mean, there were jokes eventually, but like,

It went on a long time without a lot of jokes. It was just all emotion. And I was like, wow, what better person to do this than John? I mean, he's just, he's sexy as hell. Oh, he's so sexy. He's so sexy. Yeah. He's such a gentleman. And he's a man who carries heavy thoughts. Yeah. Yeah. It's a great cast. I mean, I learned so much about her, though. Like, she came into my conscious when she was being talked about on the campaign trails in 2008. Yes.

I didn't really know too much of her history and where she came from with Goodyear Tires and just how she... Can you sort of explain her backstory? I mean, look, at 40. So, you know, this is the beauty of women. Sometimes they're just getting started at 40, 50, 60, you know, like my mother. I find these stories so inspiring, by the way. And so she said, listen, there was an opening.

to start in, you know, ground level lugging tires, which I did on a few occasions. And I have to say... Yes. Not in real life. Yes. Well, in real life, but on set. When she caused trouble and they put her back on the line at 60. When I was shooting this, I was, what, 62, 62.

I thought, they need an ambulance standing by. Like, I mean, I'm going to need help getting home after lugging tires for one day. And she was doing that five days a week. Wow. So she... But she decided, I want a better life for my children. And there was an opening that paid a lot of money. It was the highest paying job in the county. And she...

started working at Goodyear and some really good whistleblower, some good Samaritan, some good citizen, passed some records to her to let her see after she had been there for 20 years working brutal shifts, night shifts, giving up time with her children. You know, she struggled with her son. It's not quite in the movie, but she sacrificed everything for this job. And to think that she was paid...

40% less than the men. Yeah. Doing the exact same job. Yeah. She fought in every way, shape, and form. And then winning the lawsuit and then having it taken away from an all-male jury. Mm-hmm. I mean, she suffered the blows, and that's when really great politicians stepped in. Yeah. And said, wait, this woman is remarkable. Right. Like, why are we not championing her? Yeah.

Yeah, and some of her loudest champions were women. Yeah, most. I mean, there were men. There were great men. But she was a survivor. And she knew, you know, I know her daughter, too. I know Vicki. I didn't meet, this was all planned because I didn't want to play her. I wanted to just be her. And I realized the greatest tribute and ode I could give her was to just try to become her and not,

meet her and be filled with playing this and that. Sure. And of course I did my research and she was very cool with this. Yeah. And she was very happy with what I did, which I'm very thankful, you know. We debuted it at the Hamptons and she died two days after we debuted the film. Oh. So you never got to meet her. At the Hamptons.

I was going to meet her in the Hamptons for the first time. Oh, I'm sorry. We had a big interview set up. Oh, that's heartbreaking. But she fell very ill. But her daughter, I had the privilege of meeting her daughter, Vicky, in real life, who is one of the greatest human beings. Yeah. That apple falls so close to that tree. It's very emotional for me because...

They're just really great people. And she gave up a lot to be the great person she is. It did not come without, you know, sacrifices. But meeting Vicki was very emotional for me. And then to learn where we're all there in the Hamptons that she had passed was brutal. I mean, brutal. My phone started blowing up from everybody.

And it was hard. It was a really tough time. But she will live on. You know, I'm going to take this everywhere. We're doing a beautiful premiere in New Orleans, L.A., New York. We have the support of so many women, like the women who supported her, you know. Well, you know, I also loved it for obviously the historical reasons. But there's something very accurate about how

Change gets made. And I think it's really important for people to see, first of all, that we can do anything. Yes. Anyone can do anything. Well, I mean, a woman from Possum Trot, Alabama. Yeah. Okay. That lived with only an outhouse. Yeah. Uneducated. You know what I mean? Yes. Coming from a very specific family. A mother who was tough. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But also...

It takes time and it's hard. Yes. And it takes a lot of... Oh, wow. Oh, my goodness. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks so much. Thank you. Thank you. But it takes a lot of work, too. And there's going to be a lot of points where...

roadblocks are put up. And, you know, Justin, my husband and I did the same thing with marriage equality. And like, it was actually visiting face to face with a lot of these people. And it takes a lot of time. It takes a lot of emotional energy. It takes, it takes everything. It takes everything. And it takes it out of you. And when you, and you're met with a resistance sometimes more often than you are with open arms. Oh, yes. And, uh,

But to see someone succeed like Lily did and make progress and see how hard it was and see how many times she was told no. No. So many times. It's important. That's why I think the story is so beautiful. And I think, you know, it gives people just don't know, you know, equal pay for women was really in the crosshair. I mean, it really wasn't an easy thing at all. People didn't believe it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And we're slightly back to that now. Yeah. No, we are. They hired her because they thought she could do it. Yeah. And I think they looked to her to become a manager, and she did. Mm-hmm. She fought her way up. Right. Like anybody else, like any man. Mm-hmm. But I think that's an important point you brought up, is that change...

is grueling. Well, you must be so proud of the film and I'm just so glad that you got to make it. I'm so glad it exists and you're so wonderful in it. You're always fantastic in everything you do. No, when they said, oh, Patty, you're going to play her from 40 to 73, I was like, oh. You know? Yeah. I was always just, you know, what age am I today? Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Patricia tells me about her role as eccentric Aunt Sarah on the HBO classic Six Feet Under, and I share some fun tea on Golden Girls icon Bea Arthur. Okay, be right back.

Some of my favorite episodes of Dinners on Me are episodes that happen over a good glass of wine. Patricia Clarkson, Keri Russell, Margo Martindale, they gave me some of the best stories I have ever heard over a glass of wine. They definitely opened up. I mean, maybe it was the food or, you know, maybe it was the wine. I'm just saying.

I always stock up at Total Wine and more. It's my go-to, especially when I'm throwing a little backyard hang. They've got everything, amazing wines, ice-cold beers, even non-alcoholic wines and mocktail mixers for the friends who, you know, aren't drinking. Honestly, my guests think I have the best taste, but don't tell them that it's actually my friend down the street at Total Wine giving me all the tips.

Their guides are so helpful when I'm picking out the perfect bottles for everyone at the table. With the lowest prices for over 30 years, you'll always find what you love and love what you find only at Total Wine and more. Curbside pickup and delivery available in most areas. See TotalWine.com for details. Spirits not sold in Virginia and North Carolina. Drink responsibly. Be 21.

Hey, podcast listeners, have you heard you can listen to your favorite podcasts ad-free? That's good news. With Amazon Music, you have access to the largest catalog of ad-free top podcasts included with your Prime membership. To start listening, download the Amazon Music app for free or go to amazon.com slash ad-free podcasts. That's amazon.com slash ad-free podcasts to catch up on the latest episodes without the ads.

And we're back with more Dinners on Me. I mean, you've got to play some pretty remarkable roles in your career, and it must feel— But I've played a lot of unsavory ladies. No, you have. I mean, I poison my children. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not poisoning anybody. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay? I'm not killing anybody. I mean, this is what also struck me. And I'm not a drug addict. Yeah, yeah. True, true. You're clean. Because I've played a lot of drug addicts. You have. And yet I've never done any drug in my whole life. I've never even smoked pot. I've never been high. Never been high. Really? No.

But the day is young. You guys enjoying the food? Yes. Nice. Mommy needs a refill. Yeah. They're going to kick me off the plane. The pilot's going to be, excuse us, we're removing a lady from the plane. We have to circle back to the gate. We have an unsavory passenger. But acting is a drug to me. I can't imagine acting.

drinking or doing drugs on stage and then performing. That would be antithetical to me. Yeah.

After, yes. Yeah. This is an anecdote that... Oh, God. What? About Bea Arthur. I don't know if you've ever heard this. She would... During Golden Girls, she would do reshoots. So they would film the show, and then they would let the audience go. And this is... Christopher Lloyd told me this story, who was one of the creators of Modern Family and then also worked on Golden Girls. Yes, of course, yeah. And he said that they would...

let the audience go and then they would do some pickups and reshoots. But at that point, once the audience was gone, they would loosen up a little bit and Bea always liked to have a drink. A drink, yeah. So they would get her a drink and sometimes the reshoots would take a while and she'd have more than one. But she always drove herself to the lot and she would drive home and they were getting nervous on some of these days where they stayed a little longer. Like,

you know, it might not be super safe for her to drive home. We'll get a driver, yeah. So this poor PA had to, like, go... They, like, put on someone else, like, go tell Bea that we need her to be careful about, you know, the drinking after...

after the reshoots. So this poor PA goes over to her and he's like, you know, Bea, I'm just worried about, you know, because she would take her drink to go with her, like in the cup holder. Oh my God. That's New Orleans life. I know, right? And so they say, you know, Bea, we're just nervous. Your car's very low. And like, you know, if someone came up and drive next to you, they'd be able to see. And it's just, you know, I just worry. Oh my God. Oh my God. She's like, oh no, I understand. I completely get it. Totally understand. Yeah.

So the next week she arrives to set in a higher car. Oh my God. I just, I just love, I just love her so much. I love her so much. But I'm obsessed with the golden girl. Oh, me too. I'm obsessed. Like it's just the comedic scenes.

From Will and Grace, from your show to Golden Girls, it's just brilliant acting. Well written. Well written, but you rise to that and you lift it above sitcom because nothing is that good. Other sitcoms are very good, but they're not that. That's a certain level. Yeah. Well, thank you. I mean, the lovely, beautiful man who plays your husband on the show.

Eric Stonestreet. Yeah, Eric Stonestreet. I mean, the two of you. Yeah, he's a treat. I mean, you're kismet. You're a match made in heaven. I agree. And just you're yin and yang. And it just fills me with such joy. You know, I saw Megan Mullally last night at Anifair with her gorgeous breasts in full display. She said, Patty, can you stand up?

I can't keep bending over, my boobs are gonna fall out. And you know, she's so beautiful, Mega Malali, and just glorious and gorgeous, and I hadn't seen her in a while, and I just worship her too, you know? I mean, at that time that, you know, Will and Grace was on, that was kind of the time that Six Feet Under happened, right?

Which was like, you know, Will & Grace was the buzzy comedy and Six Feet Under was the drama everyone wanted to be on. And I was given Aunt Sarah, this crazy part. I know. To play the sister. It was just such a crazy...

shoot, I would fly in. Everybody thought I was a regular, but I wasn't. I would just fly in. Well, you won two Emmys for it. I did. I know, I know. But that's the writing. Yeah, yeah. And the directing. Yeah. They were, they had, and the actors that I was surrounded with, Franny Conroy, you know, Kathy Bates. Kathy Bates. Yeah. So when the three of us would work together, they'd call, they'd say, get the three tenors on set. Yeah.

That was a blessing. I mean, it was such a massive...

huge hit in a time where, you know, streaming didn't exist. No. You know, you waited every week for the new episode. You waited. Yeah. I remember boarding that train early. I watched Six Feet Under from the very beginning. The moment I had access to HBO and I rode that train all the way to that brilliant finale. I mean, that was brilliant. I would get these scenes and sometimes, you know, as a crazy aunt, I had these

And I thought, oh, surely they're going to cut this down or they're going to rewrite it. But a lot of times what I got on the page stayed. And I just learned it. I'd run it and learn my monologues and they were just like... Wow. You know, it just was... It's like Richard Gray. When you have... When writing is great, it just... Yeah. Yeah.

It comes easier. You memorize it easier. You do. I know. It doesn't take a toll on you the way when you're trying to make something work. Yeah. No, you're right. I remember working on a few projects in Modern Family with not being one of them, but like where you really do feel like you're shoving a square peg into a round hole trying to memorize something and make it work. Yes.

I feel like now there's a lot more playwrights who are working in television, and I'm so glad that they are. Beautiful. Yeah. Many more people in the theater are coming to television and to movies, which is thankful because they understand art and character. And that's what great writing does. Yeah.

when I was going back through all these films that you've been in, so many of them, I'm just like, but no, no, Patricia, I mean like,

Easy A and Station Agent and, you know, just great, great films. I went back and I watched High Art and I saw some of your early stuff, which I, you know, obviously love. But there was that moment where it was like, it was Station Agent and Pieces of April, which we were nominated for an Oscar for. And it was just like all this incredible. Just beautiful. But that was Bingham Ray. That was independent cinema. That was cinemas.

Sundance really was on fire. You were labeled the Sundance queen. I mean, the independent cinema was alive and well and kicking and really powerful. And it still is. Look at the win of Anor last night. Anor was an independent film in its own way. But I was lucky I hit the jackpot when it was on fire. It's a career I greatly...

look up to and admire. My mother was just like, Patty, what are you playing this time? And I'd be... I remember with Sharp Objects, she was like, please tell me that woman is not based on me. You did not use... It's just like a mom to assume. I said, Mom, you did not... Your cooking was fabulous. And

And no, no, no. I meant to ask, would you like to look at dessert? I'm okay. Do you want some? No. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. My name's Nick. Hi, Nick. I'm Patty. It's so nice to meet you. Pleasure's all mine. Really, really nice to meet you. Thank you, Nick. Thank you. Thank you, Nick. Thank you. Thank you. See ya.

Mommy wants to take you on a red-eye tonight.

He is so handsome. I'm coming back to L.A. at the end of April. Maybe I'll say, oh, let's all meet. How do you pronounce it? Elefante. Elefante. My friend Nick is working. I'm so glad you fit us in while you were here. Oh, no, no, no, no. Are you kidding me? I mean, it's going to be, the red eye is going to be downhill. Okay.

But thank you. Of course. Thanks for doing this. I really love you so much. What a privilege. It really, really is. I just simply think the world of you. Just dinner by the sea with Patty Clarkson. All the sun setting in the background. What could be better? Nothing. I know. Look at this. It's very romantic. It is. Should we make out? Yeah, maybe we should. Maybe we should.

I'm definitely paying for dinner if that's the case. Dinner's on me. This episode of Dinner's on Me was recorded at Elefante in Santa Monica, California.

Next week on Dinner's On Me, you know him from the queer rom-com Bros, the leading man on countless Hallmark classics, and now as the host of Hallmark Plus' home renovation show, Home is Where the Heart Is, it's Luke McFarlane. We'll dig into our 20-year-long friendship, can you believe it? The impact of gay visibility on television, parenthood, and so much more.

And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners On Me Plus. As a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen completely ad-free. Just click Try Free at the top of the Dinners On Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today.

I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.

All right, let's talk about something near and dear to my heart. Building the perfect sandwich. And yes, yes, I take this very seriously. Step one, you need a great bread. Fresh, crusty, something with character. Step two, Boar's Head Oven Gold Turkey. Always. It's juicy. It's flavorful. It's the backbone of this operation. Step three, a few slices of Boar's Head Smoke Master Ham because I like to mix it up.

It adds a slow-smoked beechwood flavor that makes your taste buds just, you know, do a little dance. Step four, cheese. Sharp cheddar if I'm feeling bold, creamy Swiss if I'm feeling fancy. Step five, a swipe of Dijon, crisp lettuce, thin sliced tomato, and maybe a pickle or two, you know, for drama.

Layer it all up, cut it in half diagonally, obviously, and you got a sandwich that's perfectly crafted thanks to Boar's Head. Every bite tastes like it was made with care because it was. So if you're ready to level up your sandwich game, trust me, start at the deli counter. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite at your local Boar's Head deli counter. Boar's Head, committed to craft since 1905.