Robot Revolution: Truth or Hype?
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The humanoid robot revolution is here. During NVIDIA's keynote last week, Jensen predicted that humanoids will be widely used in manufacturing within five years. We just saw China's Uniti... Unitri... Unitri... Why can't I say it?

Unitree G1 humanoid. It did a record-breaking standing side flip. It can also spring to its feet from laying flat on its back. And most importantly, it can perfectly learn any TikTok dance, which answers the question, what exactly is China doing with our data? That G1 robot can be yours for a mere $16,000, a little closer to home. Our robots...

Making some progress, figure AI's O2 just learned how to walk more like a human. It's no longer doing the Biden shuffle thanks to an end-to-end neural network trained on high-fidelity physics simulation. Also, figure unveiled its automated production line that's capable of making 12,000 humanoids a year, and they plan to scale that fleet to 100,000 robots within a few years.

Over at Tesla, Optimus is making an appearance at Capitol Hill. It was there this week, and it's packing its bags for a trip to Mars in 2026. Tesla says that they hope to make about 5,000 Optimus bots this year, 50,000 next year, and scale exponentially from there. So with the robot revolution upon us today on Dumb Money, we are separating fact from fiction to tell you what's hype and what's real. This is Dumb Money Live.

Hey there, Dave here along with Chris and Jordan. We are Dumb Money. Welcome to Dumb Money Live. Quick reminder, if you don't mind, smash the like button. Helps us out with the old algorithm. Chris Jordan, this is a show that we've been talking about doing for a while now. Humanoid's going to be an ongoing topic here for the foreseeable future. And today, before we deep dive into the specifics, I would like to kind of get a lay of the land. Chris, I know that you recently posted this article.

list of well it went away but you posted on x a list of the top 10 non uh

non-Chinese robot companies. And if we can, I just want to see if we could run through that list quickly and get kind of a one sentence overview of where they currently stand. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have a list in front of me, actually. I just pulled it up. I'll pull it up too. But if we start with the first one on the list is one that hasn't publicly said anything about robots, humanoid robots, that's Apple.

Apple, yeah. Apple has been working on electric vehicles for almost a decade. Obviously, they just ended that program, and rumor has it, and this is through numerous really good sources of mine, that they have shifted the entire EV team around.

over to a new secret initiative at Apple developing humanoids. So Apple's taking humanoids really seriously. They're recruiting for their humanoid team. And word is that they are really happy with the progress that they've made, whatever that means. Do we trust them? Do we believe in them to be able to actually produce

something like this. I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other, but you have to give Apple some

degree of acknowledgement that if they're able to pull it off on the hardware and software side, they do have the most trusted network in the world to be able to bring a product like this into the home in a trusted way and have it be fully integrated into your data, right? Through the Apple ecosystem. So I'm hoping they're better at robotics than they are at actually launching Siri.

And I hope that that robot is a little more capable than Siri on day one. But that's, I'm very interested to see the Apple story with humanoids as that unfolds. By the way, I won't get into it right now, but a lot of what we'll talk about in,

in this episode are timelines. I think the timelines are really skewed with people's perception of timelines, especially as it relates to home bots, because you hear some CEOs out there saying, hey, we're putting bots in the home starting this year. And you think, oh, wow, that means maybe I'll have my home bot in a year or two or three. I do not believe that's the case. So the Apple thing is far off, but they're taking it really seriously. And I expect them to likely say,

if they don't screw it up be a major player in this space within 10 to 15 years

Let's go to the next one on the list. OpenAI, private company, they're not specifically building robots. They're more investing in other robots. No, no. They're building robots. They're building their own robots. Their own humanoids, yes. That is breaking news that I have not read anywhere else. No, this is fairly well known within the robotics community now. OpenAI initially partnered with

with Figure AI and OpenAI was going to be the neural network and neural network kind of foundational model for artificial intelligence to be the brain of Figure AI's robot. That deal broke off in the last couple of months, depending on which rumor you believe.

Either figure broke that off or OpenAI broke that off, but the partnership no longer exists. We'll talk about figure in a minute and all the stuff they're doing in-house now for their robot brain as opposed to utilizing OpenAI's AI. So that said, OpenAI is now creating their own cloud.

hardware humanoid team. They began hiring for it about six weeks ago. At the time, they had one or two employees only in that segment. But they do have a history of robotics at that company. And I believe that they will

One way or another, be a major player in that space. They're taking it really seriously. I do think they probably end up forming a new partnership with at least one new humanoid company at some point this year. We'll talk about who I think that could be in a minute.

But opening up to be a player in the space, there's no doubt they will. And the reason why, guys, I think this is really important. You've heard this now numerous times. We're running out of data for world models, right, for these AI companies.

There's just only so much synthetic data out there in the world. Now, NVIDIA is doing a really good job with their platforms kind of creating new synthetic data for these world models. But at the end of the day, there's a difference between visual data and actual tele-operated data where you have a human that's training a

a humanoid how to do a task and the data that you're collecting isn't just visual through cameras. You're able to collect sensor data, pressure data, the data of every single movement in that robot, how it

how it moves. Like if you're picking up a bottle, you know, this bottle's firm, so it's easy, but a plastic bottle, you'd have to put a little more pressure on it, right, to pick it up. And that is a type of intelligence. It's subconscious that we don't think about that often, but it's a really big piece of the intelligence hole that has to be filled to get these humanoids to do

high articulation and to be able to really fill out

the task ability that we need them to do to become generalized, right? And so the only way you can do that is by having a great piece of hardware that's matched up to your neural network that you're training. And it takes years of collecting that data to accomplish that. So what you're seeing right now is that the companies that are on the software side,

of this sector. Companies like Nvidia are making a massive push to invest in and also partner with hardware companies so that they can ensure that they're collecting

a good amount of training data to eventually get to where all these robotic companies are trying to get to, which is generalized robotic autonomy. That's kind of like the AGI of robotics, where a robot can actually, what they call zero-shot learning, can learn any task

in real time just by visually seeing and maybe doing that task a few times. And now the robot can do it. And if that robot can do it, then every robot within that fleet globally can instantaneously do that task.

And the only way that we get there is by training the robots to do thousands and thousands of tasks, kind of like when you're a human baby is actually initially not as capable of doing things as a monkey. But as the human baby starts to add so many tasks to its neural network, eventually the next one gets easier. The same thing is happening with robotics. By training these robots to do

so many things through teleoperation and through simulation, the next thing that the robots are learning gets easier. And Dave, that's why we're starting to see like an acceleration in what some of these robots are capable of doing. And even the walk gate that you're seeing, the autonomous walking gates getting better now because we're, they're just, they're

they're going through that learning process. I think that continues to accelerate over the next two years, right? Anytime there's a breakthrough in something, whether it's, it is walking more upright or figuring out how to do something or being able to visually, you know, adapt to a situation like once, once that, that little step has been made, it just seems to accelerate from there. So let's go to the next one on the list, which was Apptronic. The

the Google backed company with Apollo, Chris, you are probably more knowledgeable about this company than anyone in the world, just because you're so heavily involved with it, both as an investor and just like working with them. Yeah. Very high level. We want to make it through the list and then we can go back and talk more about it. Okay. But I screwed, I screwed up. So can you just let me, I need to, you know, I, I, I promise to start retweeting, retweeting,

I shoot our, our episodes on Twitter and I forgot to do it. So now I need to do it. So there it's done. Okay. While you're doing that, everybody watching, if you happen to be watching us on X, go ahead and share this link.

Oh, that'd be, that'd be really nice. Wouldn't that be great? That's better than a thumbs up, right? It's better than a thumbs up. All right. So we know that we know that Apptronic, the public information is Apptronic has raised more money and they're targeting factory deployment. They're in a pilot with Mercedes. What else can you tell us? Yeah. So, so Apptronic just publicly disclosed that they raised $403 million, uh, led by, uh,

partially led by Google and led by a B Capital and Capital Factory who we're all affiliated with. That's a tremendous amount of money for a company like Apptronic that has been operating on fumes for the past seven or eight years, right? As just a couple kids that graduated out of the UT Austin Robotics Lab.

you know what, they've been working on this stuff for seven, eight years. Uh, and they kind of have the reputation as being the OG, uh,

company for fully electric commercialized humanoids. They've just never really had the money or the resources to accelerate their development. So this is a really big deal for Aptronic out of Austin. It's definitely one of our favorite humanoid companies. I'm very close with the CEO, Jeff Cardenas, and his co-founder, Nick.

I think they will be a huge player in the space. So they structured a partnership with Google and in the

And the partnership is really similar to the one that figure had with open AI, where Google is obviously doing a lot of the neural network foundational model brain for the apptronic robot, which certainly gives them something of an edge in the space.

Maybe we don't see it today, but I think over the course of the next couple of years, having access to the DeepMind team at Google, which is one of the best in the world at AI, for those of you all that don't know DeepMind, there's a movie called The Intelligent Game. Dave, Jordan, you have to see this. It's a...

It's a documentary on Dennis Hassabis, Demis Hassabis, who is the co-founder, CEO of DeepMind. And it's all about the story of him as like one of the, you know,

prodigy chess champions as a kid. And he kind of helped invent artificial intelligence and he solved protein folding with AI at Google and won the Nobel Prize for it this last summer.

But he's definitely one of the top AI scientists in the world. And it'll be interesting to see what Google does over the next few years in robotics. So when you think about Apptronic, it's hard to separate them right now from Google.

Because Google, let's be honest, kind of got their butt kicked by OpenAI in commercialization of large language models and all the productization that goes along with that. They just were slow to productize and commercialize their AI and all of the research that they've done. Because Google was first on this, remember? And they were hiding it and they wouldn't share it.

So they were kind of forced to share what they were working on because open AI made such a big splash with chat GPT. I think it's, I think it's really interesting. So I don't think Google can lose this game. I think Google has to make sure that they have a leadership position in this game. Uh, I really look forward to seeing what a company like Apptronic does now that they actually have money for the first time to start to accelerate, uh,

kind of their technology and their engineering and to be able to start to kind of scale out their ideas. So they're definitely a favorite of ours for sure in this space. Next up on the list is Boston Dynamics. Also, everyone keeps asking, how do I invest in all these companies if they're all private and stuff? We're going to talk about that a little bit before we end the episode. So remind me, we'll talk about ways to invest.

Boston Dynamics. This is a company that I've been saying for a long time will be like the number four outside of China.

I'm going to take that back. Boston Dynamics is the OG humanoid company, but from an experimental perspective, meaning they never wanted to be a commercialized robotics company. The history of Boston Dynamics is to

push the limit on what a robot can do. So their robots were so expensive. They were like $1.4 million per robot and they used hydraulic actuators. There was nothing about their robot that could actually be

utilized kind of as a commercial robot because it was so dangerous, so expensive. And all the moves you used to see that robot doing when it would do the flips and running through the gymnast gymnasium, right? Like those are all those videos that were viral in the early days of viral videos. Those are all pre-programmed. So the thought was, okay, now Boston Dynamics used to be owned by Google, right? Google used to own all the big robotics companies back in the 2010s. I don't know if

People realized that they had a situation at the company with the leadership of their robotics program. And that person left the company. And then Google realized, well, it's way too early for this stuff anyway. And they sold all the robot companies, including Boston Dynamics. Boston Dynamics changed hands and changed hands again. And now it's owned by Hyundai.

So what's happened over the course of the last 12 months is that they have been, I don't want to say 12 months, this has been going on for years. They've been repurposing that technology to become a fully electrified commercial humanoid. And I didn't think

they would be able to pull it off so quickly. But the videos they released in the last couple of weeks, quite honestly, are astonishing. And you might even say that as of this second, Boston Dynamics might have the most capable piece of hardware in the humanoid space.

Now, how much is that hardware cost to produce by hand? Because all these robot companies are currently making the robots by hand. It could be a lot. Where most of the robots in this space kind of cost between $100,000 and $200,000 to make by hand right now at low to no volume, that one might end up being half a million. So that could be a weakness of that platform. But it is...

a super capable piece of hardware now how far have they pushed uh their um autonomous ai model right to be able to work that robot autonomously we'll see we'll see but i think you have to count them in as a major player in in a leadership position in the space as of today and they've they've had

non-humanoid forms that have actually been released and are doing factory tasks. They're demonstrating that their Atlas, the one that we just saw standing up, can do factory tasks. They aren't expected to mass produce anything this year. They're not expected to do more than maybe a thousand next year. So it's going to be kind of a slow burn story with them, I think. But

A very interesting one to keep an eye on. And let's talk about scalability. That sounds like an appropriate level of scalability. Even that sounds aggressive for where we are with hardware tech today. And that's going to be a heated issue because people are hearing something very different right now.

as it relates to scalability when it comes to some other companies like Tesla, Elon, as well as a figure. Yeah. But who would have, who do we have next? Next up is meta, which they have not publicly announced any robotics, humanoid robotics projects, but we have seen signs of it.

They have publicly announced, Dave, that they are in the humanoid space now. They announced it a few weeks ago. I think you've been spending too much time in Mexico. Well, I've seen memos that are reported in the news, but I haven't seen anything on Meta's website. I haven't seen a mock-up of what a MetaBot might look like. So they announced that they are starting...

on the software side, right? So they're starting on this kind of robotic foundational model before they get into hardware. But I can assure you that they are likely to get into hardware themselves

Rumor is that they are aggressively seeking hardware partners right now. So these are robotics companies that are willing to work with them in a similar capacity to how

Apptronic is working with Google and how Figure at one time was working with OpenAI and how most of these robotics companies are currently working with NVIDIA for simulation data as well as chips, which, by the way, is now becoming a large, large part of NVIDIA's story going forward. We can kind of discuss that as well.

But Meta will be, I think, a reasonably big player in the space. By the way, this is like the first time in history, correct me if I'm wrong, that we've ever had essentially almost every big tech company globally, because this extends to China. We're not going to talk too much about China, making the same exact product, developing the same exact product. They're all in on it now. They're all doing it in varying capacities. Right.

Which is wild. But yeah, meta will be big in this game, and it's not a name you hear tossed around, but they've actually been doing a lot of their own training work behind the scenes for their AI. And their Lama model is this open source thing that likely will also extend into their robotics world, right? Yeah.

Yeah. And I think when it comes to open source, a lot of the companies are kind of moving in towards that kind of open source space when it comes to robotics. I think even Google opened up some of its training models to other robotics companies in a kind of preferred program that they announced a couple weeks ago. Next on the list is Optimus, the Tesla bot.

Okay, so Optimus, we hadn't heard from Optimus in a couple months, but Optimus, you know, listen, we've all heard Elon talking about this for years now. He says it's the most important thing that Tesla has ever done. He says the value that Optimus will create for the company will dwarf everything else that Tesla does. He expects there to be, what,

40 billion humanoids or something like that uh by 2040 and more recently he did at the tesla all hands uh say that they expect to do 10 000 but more realistically 5 000 this year and scale that to 50 000 next year and exponentially from there okay so here's the thing

Elon's been talking a lot about this space for a long time. Now there are a ton of other companies getting into the space, a ton of companies trying to grab the attention with splashy videos, with big announcements. So what is the one kind of point of differentiation that Tesla has from some of the other humanoid companies? More so than anything else, it's money.

You know, you thought I was going to say manufacturing. Manufacturing is important, but almost more important than manufacturing right now is money. Money and resources. Access to capital, but I think they also have one of the best internal use cases for humanoid robots. Maybe. Basically, they can use it to solve their own problems instead of partnering with other companies to solve other companies' problems.

True. So then the question would be... So they've got that good turnaround to be able to experiment. True. I think that's an advantage, but how deep of an advantage is that? Because the other companies in the space are already deeply engaged with other companies and prepared to do those things the second the technology is capable of doing them. There's so much demand, I think, for manufacturing companies to...

get robots that if you, if you build a robot and you want to partner with someone who manufactures things, you can probably get a partnership pretty easily. Yeah, I think so. I just think you get a way, you get a better turnaround, you get better integration, you get better communication if it's internal than a separate company. I'm not saying that either one is good or bad. I'm just saying that there's

There's some efficiencies there that Tesla can take advantage of. I think what you're getting at, Jordan, it's only because of the type of company that Tesla is. At a normal company, I don't think that would be that big of a advantage because you'd have to go through the same type of bureaucratic process.

as you would have to go through at an external company. I think the point that you have that's true is that Tesla is such an aggressive company that

They can move at lightning speed. They can put robots on their line to start working in dangerous situations where other companies might be like, wait a second, let's go through a six-month safety protocol first before we do this. Tesla's just going to do it, okay? So, like, you probably heard about a lot of the things that they do at SpaceX. I don't want to call it cutting corners, but they just...

they are super aggressive with what doing what they need to do to get from A to Z in any way that needs to happen. So I do think that Tesla will have an advantage because they can they can experiment and they can experiment with commercialization inside of Tesla facilities in a way that would be very hard for another company to

to kind of replicate uh that is the big but their bigger advantage is money and resources so they can come out and say hey you're gonna make that many robots we're making this many robots right we're gonna make 10 times more robots than any other robot company on earth next year and actually have them doing things now i don't think anyone so do you think that um scaling up at this point and

trying to produce X number of robots, do you think that could actually be a disadvantage to where you're locking yourself into a certain hardware platform that as we've seen, I mean, some of these hardware platforms change

you know by the month i think and i think you really lock into one and start mass producing say 10 000 20 000 then you've now kind of pigeonholed yourself into what the current hardware tech is for for a com a regular company yes for a company like tesla probably not because they pivot so quickly jordan that i think tesla can come out and make 10 000 optimus bots

They can make 20,000 Optimus bots. We've seen this with the Model Y, the Model Y. All their cars, they're not... I mean, we're dealing with... They're not making drastic hardware changes to those things on the fly. It seems like once they come up with a design and they've walked into it, now they're

They're just, it is what it is. Jordan, that's the difference between automotive manufacturing and bot manufacturing. So a robot is 4% of the bulk and weight. Right, it's a lot less material, but there is a ton of complexity, right? And when you're dealing with those levels, you've got bombs of materials, you've got,

different actuators, things that you're either producing or having made other places. And so you've now locked in those designs and you are, you, you, you've locked in the designs for the run, but these are, these are pieces of machinery, Jordan, that are handmade on a line. Okay. The, a car facility is very different. You have to figure out how do I get this car? No, but I mean, yeah, kind of here, there also have, um, you know, uh,

actuators and things like that that are being mass produced if you're building them at that scale. If you start building thousands and thousands and thousands of them, like I said, you've locked in your hardware design.

You keep saying the word locked in, but then you could change the actuator design. You could change the actuator. You could upgrade the joints and keep the arm. What I'm saying is I don't necessarily know that the robots are going to have changed 100% in terms of form factor from where they are today very quickly over the next couple of years. I think he has the manufacturing prowess and the skill set there and the resources and the capital there.

that if he makes 20,000 robots, he could just throw them out. And it's not the end of the world for Tesla. He can tweak that design process and the manufacturing lines, the way that they will work with robots. They're not so to where once you do it, like it can't be changed. It's more of a conventional manufacturing line that needs to be changed over time as you change the product. So I think he'll waste some money.

I think he'll maybe waste some time, but he can do that and survive really easily. And they'll probably learn things on that manufacturing line that are inefficient. And that might actually result in Tesla modifying its bot in a way that another robot company might even not think about.

not think about, right? Because they haven't learned the lesson of how difficult that thing is to actually mass manufacture. But I don't think it's that big of an advantage. And I think Tesla is doing this for perception right now. I think it's the one thing that Elon can say that no other robot can say. You can't, another robot can't say, yeah, we're making that many because that would bankrupt you, right? Like why you don't have clients to accept that many robots, right?

Elon doesn't have clients to accept those robots. So what is he going to do with all those robots? Right now, the only thing that they've shown us that his robots do is essentially help move batteries, I think. So maybe he'll have 10,000 robots doing various things around the factory, maybe that are

meaningfully less efficient than the human workers. He might have to hire a lot of human workers to assist those robots because right now what no one's talking about is that the robots that are doing real work in production facilities are lined up with humans on a one-to-one, in some cases, two humans to one robot. So making 10,000 robots

is not awesome if you have to have 10,000 humans working with the 10,000 robots to monitor them, to hold them when they fall, like for safety purposes. So there's more nuance here than people seem to want

to believe and we are far far from a point where you could just print robots send them in crates out to someone have them open up the box and they're just doing work at their company that is so freaking far away but that's kind of the messaging that uh figures putting out right i mean i

which by the way that is the next one on our list right but I mean that's when you see videos of them actually just like putting them in boxes and saying oh we're just shipping it out to our clients I mean that's got to be misleading to a certain extent right I mean I I don't know figures being really vague I listen I think

that is next to Tesla. That is definitely seems to be the most aggressive company and China in this space in terms of we're just going to break through walls and do stuff and have robots working. Listen, Figures shown some really cool videos of what their bots can do. They're, I think,

claiming that they're going to be producing lots and lots of robots as well in the next couple years so there's a lot of mystery uh behind you know are they really ready to be doing that they're manufacturing their own robots just like Tesla there are a lot of similarities between figure and Tesla so

You know, I've been to figure. I was really impressed. Figures is another company. Just disclosure. We also are invested in figure. It is a private company. But they have said that they just recently unveiled their factory, 12,000 unit annual capacity. They've talked about their partnership deploying with BMW. Yeah.

one and a half billion dollars of funding that was just completed last month and that they look like they can scale to maybe 20,000 to 30,000 next year. So the big question and figures been making, you

you know, big waves in the robotic space with really big claims about huge orders and what they're able to actually manufacture and what they're, they moved from open AI to their own, uh, end to end neural network, uh, foundational model where their robots are learning how to do things autonomously on their own, which is what you're seeing in that,

video right there, actually two robots working together with items that they claim to have never seen before, and they know which ones need to be refrigerated, which ones do not need to be refrigerated. So it was a really impressive demo that they showed. But there's still a huge question, which is,

okay is this ready to scale yet right like is this actually ready to scale today or is is this just moving too quickly and we're going to have a moment in a year or a year and a half where

we find out that these robots weren't really ready for prime time yet because there is a huge difference between having robots do something in a controlled setting in a lab versus doing something in a production facility. There's a huge difference when you're having to do something 22 hours a day. I think that was my earlier point, Chris. Do we want to lock in designs now and start producing 10,000 of them when we're going to find out that, oh, well,

the design was not quite ready to mass produce yet. So I would say the smartest people I've spoken to in this space, roboticists, also people that have spent time with Jensen and, you know, they just, we just had GTC about a week ago. Some of the other robotics CEOs who are

talking openly behind the scenes about where they see the sector going and kind of where we are right now in terms of hardware and capability and durability. Durability is the word that no one talks about, but I think it's actually the most important word that a robotics investor needs to pay attention to because, you know, everyone says, what if you can make a robot 10% cheaper? It's had a huge advantage. Well, maybe, but

But what if you can make a robot that lasts four years instead of two years working 22 hours a day, seven days a week, right? Then you would have to make the other robot for half the price just to meet the

the level of value you're delivering. And the durability is the one big question mark that nobody can answer right now. So when you have one of these robots in a production facility, at a logistics facility or on a manufacturing line, and they're working 20, 22 hours a day, seven days a week,

for six months straight, for nine months straight. Okay, what are the problems? - What is the burnout rate? What are the actuator failure rate? - What's the level of downtime? Do we have joints overheating? Do we have wires fraying, parts wearing out?

There are things that we are going to learn in the next 12 months as the top humanoid companies all go into major pilots in production facilities. That's happening. It's already happened to some extent at Figure. It's starting to happen at Aptronic right now around the world. We know that Elon is going to be pushing the limits of his own robots inside of Tesla in a real production environment very soon.

What are we going to learn? And how far are we? Now, a lot of people are saying that we are, and this is coming from Jensen as well, from the conversations I heard about last week.

that we are anywhere between kind of three and seven years away from having what will be our scalable form factor. Now, it doesn't mean that robot companies won't begin scaling before that.

Figure is they announced it. Tesla is they announced it. But if you want to have a best guess at how we eventually get to this from, you remember the number of cell phones that we had and how they all look so funky and different. We had flip phones. We had like how many different approaches.

to a mobile phone did we have, guys, back in the day from different companies all around the world? How many different skews did we have? How many different ways did the keyboard flip or slide out and then we realized we don't even need a keyboard? So think about this, guys. That was just to get a phone and eventually a computer, right? But it took a really long time for us to fit. And you had the smartest people in the world

uh working on those projects right because there was so much money behind it and yet almost all of them got it wrong they all got it wrong until steve jobs got it right you know what i'm saying so like i wish steve were around to invent a robot

So I'll give you one example of this. And I had this little debate yesterday. I was actually asking, you know, Scott Walters, a friend, he's like the roboticist that you see on a lot of these YouTube videos. And

and we're like we have like a robot text group with guys like me and scott and i asked him i said you know this the cto of boston dynamics is really pushing three fingers in the robot they claim that there's nothing they haven't been able to do with three fingers

And maybe three fingers is the ideal hand. I was like, because Scott's really into hands, like robotic hands and analyzing them, the differences between robotic hands. And, you know, he thinks you need a five-finger hand. That's how that all played out. But...

You could make a case that because of our brains and because of all the tools that we've been able to make as a civilization, we've been able to invent so many tools that

that at some point in time we stopped evolving our physical form of humans right and that maybe if we were to continue just the physical form of our evolution as the human body maybe we would evolve in a slightly different way for our world uh but because we're able to build other solutions you

you know and we had limit limitations as to how many humans there were and what we wanted to do with our bodies for work because we don't want to do that stuff necessarily uh that we evolved in a different way so now if you could just go back to the physical worker form factor right uh

And you could evolve that form factor infinitely without having kind of a limit as to, well, we only have so many of these. If you could print billions of them, right? So like, and if you weren't worried about them

you know, getting injured or doing whatever, like what, and if pricing was a factor, right? Or if like, if it made a big difference, if it was way easier to have a three finger versus a five finger and you could do 99.8% of the task, would you evolve it as a three finger instead of a five finger? There are a hundred decisions like that that ultimately need to be made with the humanoid form factor. And what Jensen speaks about

is the tech stack for power efficiency on how it ultimately integrates with the chipsets that NVIDIA is building for these robots. They have this chipset called the Jetson, which is the onboard robotics chipset, right? And that they want every robot in the world using NVIDIA chipsets on their robots.

Every one of these robot companies has a different approach to their circuitry and their tech stack, and it makes it extremely difficult for any chip company, including NVIDIA, to start to hit scaling laws on what they can do with the chips that are designed for these bots. So NVIDIA needs all these robot companies to come together and eventually get on a more unified approach to

so that they can start the scaling laws with robotics. So he doesn't think we start scaling laws for a few years in this robotic space. And there's a lot of work to do to kind of bring everyone together and to get more of a uniform approach to how the circuitry works with the chips to get them more power efficient, right? So they can be more economical in the way that the robots work. So I guess what I'm getting at here is,

you know, this sector was, everyone had so much skepticism about robots and humanoids when we started talking about it a couple of years ago and no one believed us. And they gave us a really hard time. Now,

It's completely reversed to where all of a sudden. It's invalidated. Every company is doing it now. But every company is doing it. But I think a lot of the people that are watching from the sidelines are getting overhyped on timelines of how soon we're going to have millions of robots doing these things, especially in the home.

You know, one of the top robotics CEOs I heard recently said behind the scenes that they don't think we will have robots safely operating in the home in any type of scalable way for 10 to 15 years. Okay. Yeah, I don't even think about the home application when I think about humanoid robots at this point. It's all commercial in my mind.

I agree with you, Jordan, but you do have certain CEOs saying, hey, we're putting robots in the home this year. There's two of them. Which brings us to the next robot on the list, which is 1X out of Norway, which they plan to have in-home trials this year. They are not planning any kind of mass production. Low hundreds this year, 5,000 to 15,000 next year.

They have backing from OpenAI. They've given demos. And speaking of a different form factor, this one is wearing like a cotton jumpsuit. This is like the friendly home robot that you could just not...

it's not as metallic. It's not as, uh, George Jetson. It's more, I don't know. He's wearing a full body suit sweater. So, you know, we talked about figure being a controversial company with, you know, Brett Adcock is, is a CEO that likes to think really big and make really huge, uh,

kind of projections of where they're headed and how quickly they're moving. And, you know, half the people believe Brett, half the people are skeptical of what he can pull off, kind of like Elon back in the day. This is a company that's also really controversial because they've always had this vision of a home robot first, which is insane. Nobody other than maybe Apple behind the scenes has,

is attempting to build a home robot first because the financial incentive to make a commercial robot for a commercial industrial work is so huge and there's demand for millions tens of millions of commercial robots right now at a really high price i'm adding myself to the uh waitlist to get one of these things by the way yeah

If any robot CEOs are watching right now, I am signing up. I'm volunteering my house to have a robot come do chores for me or whatever it's capable of. I bet you'll end up getting an option to take either a figure or an optronic robot since you're invested in both. But let me talk about 1X. This is an interesting company.

This is one of only a few companies globally outside of China that actually does have hardware technical chops. The founding team is legit. They are not a company you should laugh off, although the robot looks kind of creepy and weird. The thing about these robots and the demos that you see in the videos is they are all

So they have like this suit mechanism to where they completely control the robot with a human. So in fact, even in the home, when they'd start their home testing, there will be a human controlling the robot in your home. Are they going to ship a robot and a human in the same box? Yes.

No, no, no, no, no, no. They're going to ship a robot and they're going to have a human controlling the robot in the home. And when we say they're shipping a robot, I think the only one they have in a home right now is the founder or CEO's home. And I think the way that they'll likely do this is they'll put them in employee homes of actuality.

actual employees that know how to work with this robot because they probably have some guy like fake vacuuming the carpet right next to the robot that's actually vacuuming the carpet is that yes yeah I don't know they'll probably maybe Jordan they do it remotely I don't know but they've already said that they are going to be tele-operating these robots in the home for as far as they're testing so well that's what uh so during um you know when the when Tesla had the

Optimist bartenders, isn't that what was happening? That there was somebody remote controlling those? Yeah, yeah, correct. And by the way, I've said this many times. What kind of standard procedure to test out the hardware? That's how you train robots. This is part of the process. This is actually a really important part of the process. So this is where I think 1x gets interesting, though. I have a thesis that two of the big tech companies in this space, Meta and OpenAI,

desperately need a strong hardware partnership. OpenAI had one. It's gone now, right? Because Figures is doing their own thing wildly. By the way, the fact that Figures is trying to tackle their neural network, their founder alone is crazy. They've already shown that they've made some pretty good leaps. So we'll see if they can pull that off. But if you're a software company and

You need to have a hardware partner, if not own your own hardware, so that you have control over your own destiny. One X is definitely seems to be like the last. It seems to be like the target company I would choose because figures off the market. Apptronic is with Google, right? Tesla's Tesla. They're not doing anything outside of Tesla. So if you're open AI or if you're meta, right?

you need to pick the next best, most capable company. And that has to be one X right now. So I think we'll, I think this next year, one X probably cozies up to one of those two companies. We'll, we'll see how it all plays out. Or Apple. What if, what if Apple were to buy them? No, I don't think it will be Apple. I think, no, Apple's going to build their own hardware. Yeah.

they have they've already they're already doing it dave they already have a massive team and again the rumor is and this came from someone who was interviewing with them that they think they're making progress and that this is not going to be another auto type

you know yeah Apple's such a do-it-yourself type company they think they that's how they operate yeah they they have their own they have their own design engineering they yeah listen they're they're not in a rush either I don't think it's Apple but what I wouldn't count one X out is all I'm saying and because one X if you look at where their weakness appears to be right now it appears to be on the AI side right they have not shown autonomy yet

You know, we've seen a lot. We've seen autonomy come out of figure. We've seen a little bit of it come out of Tesla. We know Tesla will figure that part out. And we've seen some come out of Apptronic as well in the latest Google DeepMind videos that were put out a couple weeks ago where they showed the Apptronic robot doing things.

full reasoning uh an aptronic robot actually had a voice so you they were google deep mind engineers were speaking to it and the aptronic robot was speaking back and it was actually doing reasoning basically making words from uh little wood pieces that had letters on them on the table right and it was pushing the pieces of letters together to form a word uh they all rambled

What? Scrabble for robots. Basically playing Scrabble, right? I mean, they already had it playing Jenga, right? They released a video of the bot playing Jenga. So, you know, they're working on advanced reasoning of these bots at DeepMind. Again, this is where I say we're really early, but the things that are going to come out over the next few years are going to completely melt your mind. 1X is a company to keep an eye on, for sure.

So this little quick one sentence summary per company has gone exactly as planned. We're now, we have two more left on the list. We have Amazon, which tell me what you know about Amazon and humanoid robotics, because we know we've seen other form factors working in their factories, things like this Roomba looking thing that goes and moves things around their warehouses. What are they doing on the humanoid front?

So they have employed some pilot programs, uh,

One of the pilot programs they've employed is with the last company on the list, which is, Dave, who are they again? Agility. Agility's Digit Robot, right? So we can talk about Amazon and Agility together because Agility has had a pilot at Amazon. Their robot looks a little funky. The way the legs work with Agility, it's more of a lightweight robot.

humanoid robot it is technically bipedal but it's designed for uh product picking like with the bins like bin like here we go like bin picking and those bins have nothing in them which is interesting uh it'd be more impressive if the bin was actually full with weight uh so if you look at that robot

It's really more of a multi-use robot as opposed to kind of more of a generalized robot. So it's not as impressive. I do not know how Amazon views the success of that robot for product picking bins.

I'm not I do not see them as kind of a company in a leadership space with that form factor. I really don't. I think I think you have to be careful when you're a humanoid company to get to

to kind of get nailed down doing just one thing, right? It's easy to fall in that trap because you can get a contract with someone like Amazon. And like, if we just do this one thing really well, there's a tremendous amount of money just with this one task.

But it's really important for these robotics companies to figure out how to do a few different tasks that they can scale out robots over the next few years in commercial settings and start to generate revenue and show that they can integrate their technology into production facilities in a very real way. But also you have to chase full generalization. So, you know, maybe agility is able to do both, but I think,

it's probably the least impressive of the by the major bipedal humanoid bot platforms. And we did see that they announced they are expanding their factory. They're targeting global deployment by 2026 of five to 10,000 units.

That 10,000 unit facility is in Oregon and it's ramping up. I think that was another thing that kind of weirded me out is that they were trying to build their own robots with the amount of capital they had access to. And they were doing it in Oregon. Oregon seems like an unusual place geographically as it relates to supply chain to want to build robots. Right.

But that's what they're doing. I want to say that they raised $100 million-ish so recently. So maybe they have $100 million in cash.

This is a sector where your competitors either have infinite cash, Tesla, or have a lot of cash, which would be figures sitting on well over probably $2 billion after this raise of cash. Even companies like Aptronic that are new to the fundraising game just closed on over $400 million of cash. So it really is becoming an arms race. And then you have China, right?

which is you know announced that they are basically subsidizing their humanoid program with 187 billion dollars uh and that's part of the reason why our humanoid CEOs it wasn't just it wasn't just Tesla by the way uh you know Jeff at aptronic uh was in DC this week and you know they're like hey China's spending almost 200 billion dollars to lead the world in humanoids

America has lost the robotics race before when they were in the pole position to win it because we were afraid. And then we lost it. We lost it to China and we lost it to Europe. Okay.

Okay. And we can't have that happen again. This is a new AI centered robotics arms race that will define the future of humanity and economies for the next 50 plus years and America

cannot make that mistake again. So we have to get our thinking aligned, right? We've seen a lot of funding from the private sector, but we have not, unlike China, we have not seen any government push to have robotics be a

So, Dave, you say we see a lot of funding, and I've been thinking about this a lot. Because at first I was like, wow, you know, figures raising a couple billion dollars. That seems crazy to me. But when you look at the total addressable market in this sector, and you look at how large it is, and everyone's saying it now, it's not just crazy, Elon. You know, Jensen has been saying this now daily. For two years now.

Yeah, we have some of the top CEOs in the world saying this. We have now Wall Street's finally getting on board. In fact...

i think one of the biggest changes shifts that we've seen that will lead to the chat gpt moment in capital markets is jensen jensen is pushing this so hard with wall street analysts with the venture community with ceos and he is not like elon right people don't laugh jensen off half the time they're like well maybe he's right but he's like 20 years off in what he's saying

I think he's a really big part of why we're starting to see so many analysts jump on board right now, why we're seeing Wall Street talk about this space in a very meaningful way, why we're starting to see some of the buy pressure in terms of venture capital trying to get into this space. But it's just started. That flywheel has just begun. So I think now I lost my train of thought what we were initially talking about here.

But I think, oh, that's right. The level of investment. Yeah. I think the sector is underinvested. Yeah. I mean, Figure had that $1.5 billion. Aptronic has in the hundreds of millions, right? Not billion. And then pretty much nothing after that. And then, yeah, the other are Google self-funding and OpenAI. And I mean, Amazon and Ability don't really...

By the way, Amazon does have a humanoid division. They are pushing forward with humanoids from what I hear. I hear they're actually a little bit behind as it relates to humanoids while they're well ahead in terms of all other types of AI-centered robotics. I think Amazon will be a player in this space at some point as well. I think you have companies like Physical Intelligence that are trying to replicate the

Software side of this sector, right? They're raising big capital. I think.

were they the one that raised capital from Bezos? There's another company that SoftBank invested 500 million into that again is trying to mimic what Nvidia is doing on the simulation software side. So the software side is getting big capital, but the hardware side I think is still under invested. I think that changes next year. I think next year we start to see massive investments on the hardware side.

And big announcements made industry-wide by big tech. And are those, is that hardware manufacturing at scale existing hardware or new development of like R&D budget for developing future hardware? R&D budget. I think what we're going to see over the next two years are a shift of

And Jordan, I want to get your input on this because I'm not an engineer, you are. But I think we see a shift from some of the brightest minds in software engineering, where quite honestly, there

there's a little bit of nervousness right now with how it shakes out with AI, but there's a shift where those people will be migrating to hardware engineering, especially with young people that aren't quite so set, right? I think the demand for hardware engineers... What do you mean by... Just define what you mean by hardware. Are you talking about like...

you're talking about like the actual we're working on working on robotics hardware basically and i don't mean just hardware but just just like working on this is kind of a multi-disciplinary thing and i think software engineers aren't necessarily the ones to work on hardware right you got uh

You've got mechanical engineering. You've got actually computer engineering. You've got circuit design. There's a ton of things that go into it that are very specialized. I guess what I'm saying, Jordan, is I think we see a shift in the types of...

careers that people are maneuvering into that are younger, more on the hardware side, because there are questions as to kind of what the demand will look like, right, going forward 10, 15 years. Yeah, we're already seeing, you know, I don't think if you're going to college right now, you really want to stake your future on like web development or anything like that, right? I think that those days are

Those days are gone. If anybody wants to develop a website, you tend to offshore those things now. Let's rewind for a second. What should you be studying if you're in college right now? Because the doctor is going to be replaced by AI. A surgeon is going to be replaced by AI hands. A lawyer is going to be replaced by a chat bot. I mean, what should today's kids be doing?

Yeah, I mean, that's a good question. Philosophy is always relevant. No, no, no, no, no, no. You don't think Chetupiti has better philosophical skills? I know. If you want to study philosophy, do it from your bedroom on the internet. No, that's a good point. There is zero reason to go to college to study philosophy. I'll take that back, but I think you can learn a lot of philosophy. So here's the thing. Jensen talks about

you know, I think it was Jensen, maybe it was someone else in the future. You,

you'll do the same things. You'll just do them. Instead of managing a fleet of people, you'll be managing a fleet of robots, right? And that can mean a lot of different things. Why do we need a person to manage that fleet? Why don't we just get a lead robot to manage the other robots? Dave, you will for a very long time. And when I say fleet of robots, it could be physical robots. It could be AI agents. But we're a lot...

of the value is going to come the next 10 to 20 years is, is your ability to utilize the new set of tools that we're being given. Right. So, and we've had Elon say the same thing about, you know, robo taxis that those Uber drivers will not be replaced. They'll just be managing a fleet of self-driving vehicles. But that brings me to the question of,

Who's going to need to take all these rides and we're going to run out of things for robots to do when they're this many of them. No, Dave, first of all, we want the scaling of these robots is not going to happen nearly as quickly as anybody thinks. I've been saying this for a long time. People are getting overhyped on timelines. It's going to take a while because a lot of the value creation in this space, and this is the thing that no one's talking about.

Everyone, probably one of the most common questions I get is, okay, what matters most? Is it the hardware? Is it the software? Is it the AI? Like, is it the manufacturing, you know, capabilities? What matters most?

And I would say, while all those are exceptionally important, the hardware is really tough. You've got to have excellent hardware to be able to express whatever type of AI brain you're able to build. If you don't have unbelievable high articulating hardware that is robust and durable, it's

you're done. Okay. Now you also have to have that AI layer that eventually is trained to the extent that it becomes generalized. That will likely happen in the next two to three years, we think. Um, so that's really important. By the way, you also need a massive tech stack of support software for fleet management. Imagine what it's like to manage, uh,

100,000 robots at a single company across 60 warehouses, 15 manufacturing facilities, three logistics facilities, and they're doing 50 different tasks. Okay. What, do you know how difficult that's going to be to manage that? The software that goes into that type of fleet management, which one? Yeah, I think it'd be very difficult for a human to manage. It's going to take, it's going to take a super brain of some sort. If we could just find some sort of

Artificial intelligence to be able to manage it all for us. No, it's going to take machines, computers, and humans all working together in unison. And that's what I'm getting at right now. So the last mile, distribution, distribution, commercial distribution is probably the highest moat in this space. And it's the thing that no one's talking about because the amount of time and resources that it takes,

to work with a single mega incumbent of physical labor just think in your head right now one of the top 20 companies in the world that employs physical human labor has over 100 to 300 400 000 employees that will eventually be robots in 30 years right going from one robot to five

to 100 to 1,000, having to develop the fine-tune AI model to do each of those tasks at that company, having to deal with their safety standards, how to figure out how to have the robots working with humans, because it's not like they're just going to displace humans. For a really long time, most of the companies, most of the CEOs are saying, we don't want to displace. We want to grow. We

We want to keep the humans we have, but due to demographic shifts, we don't have enough of them and we can't expand. We want to work a shift at night when the humans go home, right? Doing the same exact job. It takes a tremendous amount of strategy, a tremendous amount of integration work. It takes probably thousands of human employees at your company to onboard and work and engage with

with 60 facilities around the world that just one client, okay, to onboard, to train, right, to synthesize. If it takes a thousand humans to do it, we just need to write better software to make that whole process easier. Dave, you're wrong. You're wrong. I'm going to tell you, Dave, right now, in many cases, it takes two humans for every one robot that you're even piloting.

And if that continues for five years, then robots are a failure. If we need two humans for every robot to make them... Dave, that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life. You know how short five years is? Five years is nothing. I am telling you that we are not going to see massive amounts of... If we still need two humans per robot 10 years from now, 20 years, whatever number you want. I saw someone in the comments say three to 400 years. I think it's coming quicker than that.

Dave, okay, you won't. But also we want to start printing tens of millions of robots. So I'm not saying you're going to need a human for every robot, but you might need a human for every 30, okay, or every 20, every 50. And that's still a ton of new workflow, okay? That is a ton of new demand that we need for humans. Okay, I'll give you a perfect example. Right now,

I don't know, let's just talk about landscaping. I don't know, fucking yard work, right? Right now, maybe most people still do their own yards, right? Maybe in the future, it becomes so cheap and efficient to have robots doing them that maybe the robots do them, but maybe the robots aren't ready yet to actually be in your home doing that work. And instead you have a robot doing your yard that is part of a

crew that comes down your street and has robots. Maybe more people end up having their yard being professionally done by a service in 15 years than they do today because it's become so efficient. But

because of that. Hold on, hold on, hold on, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, let me finish, let me finish. Because of that, we now have a hundred times more landscaping companies, okay? Now those landscaping companies might be employed mostly with humanoid robots, but

But we have 100 times more companies that need to be owned and operated and maintained by humans, okay? So getting back to your question, what do we do? You need to learn how to manage. You need general business principles, right? You need to know how to do all the things. We might have a billion small business owners, all right, in 10 years working with robots. I don't know.

That's possible. My point is your example of yard work is a terrible example because humans are very efficient at doing that now and not expensive to do that now. If you just have your yard mowed and your hedges trimmed, it is cheaper to have a human do that than robots. But at a factory where a robot can work 24/7 building things, moving things, whatever,

That's a different use case that should scale without two humans having to guide that robot. And if two humans are required to guide the robot for more than five years, I think robotics has been a failure. I don't care less about the next five years. Five years is nothing, okay, first of all. But no, it's not going to be like that for five years. But yeah, it's going to scale really slowly at first. That's what I'm telling you. It's going to scale really slowly at first. And you have to...

Humans are not that efficient at doing yard work. Dave, you're thinking humans are efficient at mowing the yard and blowing leaves. Do you know how much it costs to get them to do anything other than that? The costs go from this to this the second you want them to plant something in your yard, the second you want them to actually put a piece of turf in your yard or do anything. Yeah, this is like a basic tenet of startups is that you have to do unscalable things

first so that you can make them scalable later so this is this is like a non-issue this is you if you if it takes a few humans to train each one for a while until you can figure out how to then scale those operations that's it's just part of the game i i don't see that's a big problem i just think that that the robots are going to have to train themselves

and that they'll be better at training themselves than humans will be. Okay, but Dave, you don't go from zero to 100 in a few years. The robots will train themselves, but there's going to be tremendous amounts of human engagement within this new world of robotics. Okay. What I think you're missing, Dave, is that humans have hundreds of thousands of years of training hours already in.

our own, you know, brains, right? Yes, but each new human has to be trained and learn from their mistakes along the way and or go to college and learn something and or go to a trade school and learn how to be an electrician. Every robot can be born with the knowledge of how to be an electrician or a plumber or a lawnmower. Yeah, but they can take advantage of all the knowledge that we've already learned. So, of course, humans are going to train robots. At first.

Okay, so yes. And then robots will be just born with knowledge. Timelines matter. Timelines matter. We can't just be like, hey, I don't have any use anymore because the future theoretical robot can do everything perfectly, but that could be 25, 30 years from now. So what are you going to do for the next 25 years? And over the next...

The same way we have gig economy workers driving Ubers right now, we all know that eventually no one's going to be driving an Uber. But that doesn't mean it's not a very valid job for 10 to 15 years. OK, eventually that's going to go away and the gig economy drivers are done. OK, but there will be new jobs that are more complex than just Uber.

taking a bag to someone's door. Like the fact that Dave, we still have humans literally getting out of a car, taking a paper sack and dropping it on your doorstep. That's how evolved we are now. We're not involved hardly at all. Humans are doing really stupid stuff right now. All I'm saying is you're going to need to level up what humans are doing a little bit. Once the robots can get in the car, take the bag, put it on the porch. You might. Oh, I agree with that. Humans are going to have to find something to do.

And I don't know what it is because I think that robots are going to be able to do everything a human does, but better and faster and cheaper and more efficiently. And why would a company continue to employ humans that need benefits and pay when they could just buy a robot to do it for them? Because Dave, it's time. What you're saying is not going to just happen. I'm not saying it's just going to happen. I'm not saying that we're going to wake up five to 10 years from now and every job is going to be a robot's job. I just think you have to think,

What, what, what's beyond that? How long, how long, like at what point do we go, do we have humans who don't need to do anything because we're now living in the age of abundance where humans can sit and just sit back and watch the robots do things.

answering that question is a fantasy because if any time you would have asked hey what is a human going to be doing uh in terms of new work 100 years from now almost all the answers are wrong okay so like like somebody somebody in the early days of the telephone industry was probably making the same argument that operators are always going to be necessary to patch calls together we're never going to have a better way to do it than a

lady sitting at a switchboard plugging things in to connect new york to la no wrong wrong i would say we have more people working in telecommunications telecommunications today than we did back then just in different jobs in telecommunications and so what i'm trying to tell you industry got bigger what i'm trying to tell you is robots will allow industries to get bigger

Yeah. So what I'm trying to say is, no, the robot might be planting the plant in the yard, but there will be more humans involved in that industry because the industry is going to get bigger because it's going to become more commoditized for more humans to be able to have a landscaper. Where today, very few people can even afford to have a landscaper when the robot

bring the cost down dramatically because they're doing the bulk of that repetitive work, it will actually create jobs for humans to be able to come in and fill the holes to administer those robots to do those jobs for you or whomever it is. So listen, you just... If any robots in the future are watching this, I'm on your side. Chris is arguing against you. I'm all for the robots. I want them to be my friend. I don't want any robots coming after me.

I listen, I think we're eventually going to get to what you're saying, David, just not going to happen that quickly. And that's the point of this episode, like decipher, like deciphering what's real and what's not real. What is the timeline? What is a realistic timeline? Do you think for robots to get to the point where they're able to train themselves?

well i mean that's a really just i i don't that question what does that actually mean that to do when a robot can train itself to do its job why when does a when does a human no longer have to be involved in training the robot what to do i i think i think if a robot is doing things for humans a human's always going to be involved in trying to figure out what needs to be done

Yeah. Yeah. At what point do you think the artificial general intelligence will tell the fleet of robots what to do without human intervention? Without any human intervention? A really long time. I can't even place it in my head, honestly. You've heard it straight from Chris. I'm on your side.

I'm sure it'll happen eventually. I'm just voting for the robots. Okay, let's just talk about realistic timelines. We've gotten so far up. Realistic timelines. What do you think? I think the next two years, regardless of what you're hearing from Elon or anyone else,

I think the next two years are about pilots. The next two years, we're going to have very small pods of robots operating in pilot programs around the world in actual production facilities doing real work.

and we're going to learn a lot. We're going to learn where the problems are in the existing form factors. We're going to learn how to the extent to which actuation needs to be improved, the extent to which, you know, circuit boards and power management. And there's like a hundred things happening behind the scenes, nuances to the sector that no one's talking about. And we just need to get better and improve. We need to prove it out that these robots can actually do things better.

day in, day out, 20 plus hours a day, seven days a week, and actually working

last for years meaning a robot can last for four to five years and i think the form factor is going to need to evolve and be tweaked over the course of the next two to three years before we get serious about scaling out these robots i've always said the scale starts to happen right around 2030. i think as we approach 2030 we're getting close enough on the form factor uh

We have optimized the supply chain and the build of these bots to where you can start manufacturing hundreds of thousands of bots, theoretically, maybe millions, but globally. But I don't think we see any scaling until the 2030s. And even then, I think the form factors will continue to get to. I don't know if we end up here yet. I don't know if we have this yet by 2030.

but I would keep her expectation. And for this reason, that's literally five years out and it,

it's not that far yeah it's not that far it's not that far but but for capital markets people keep asking me chris i'm seeing robots every day now across the news analysts are talking about robots jen's everyone's talking about robots of the future why is tesla stock not going up because it's the only investable robot company and elon has basically said i'm a ro it's a tesla's a robot company now right

The answer is, I think most of the industry behind the scenes are having the conversations about form factor and scaling and have kind of agreed that the robot companies will coalesce around a winning form factor within five to seven years. And the scaling is likely to start around five to seven years from now. And because of that timeline of five to seven years, capital markets is looking towards venture right now.

So you're seeing a lot of the venture companies like Figure blow up with huge amounts of capital. You're seeing companies like Aptronic be able to raise multi hundred million dollar rounds out of nowhere because that's where the market is oriented. They're like if we're five to seven years out from seeing the final form factor, final ish like lock stop.

scalable form factor and we start to really hit scaling in commercial settings, then they would rather focus on venture.

And they're thinking, OK, this is not really going to start to click in a real meaningful way for a while. So they're not ready to shift their eyes on Tesla from auto to optimist yet. So that that's my best answer for people as to why hedge funds, the capital, why capital markets are not paying attention to this yet at Tesla, because it's years out in terms of when we'll actually see options.

the revenue model and the form factor that's gonna be the scalable one working out. So you have to make your bets in venture now,

Right. If you're planning for five to seven years out, the next question I get a lot is, you know, you guys are invested in all these privates and we are. We're invested in a bunch of private robotics companies. It's hard. I hate it that I can't openly invite the community to invest in stuff like, you know, figure and electronic because it's not legal anymore.

in this country for us to promote and do that stuff right like i can't include our community in on it and i hate that um there are ways for individuals to participate in this but you have to go do research find companies that are offering employee shares or things like that but they exist i've got friends that have invested in some of these um yeah by getting creative

That's what I was going to say. So there are a couple of different ways to go about it. The easiest way is to go through an online broker. Companies like Hive and Forge, they are listing shares of these companies. You probably saw Brett Adcock say that Figure AI was the most traded broker.

company on the secondary market. I think he was pointing to one of those. - He was like, I think he was saying he was like number six or it was top 10. - I think he made it to number, I thought he made it to number one this last week. - Maybe, I don't know. - But you can invest through these brokers. Normally what you're buying are employee shares. You're normally buying common stock.

Okay. So what happens is you have employees that have been around for a while and they want some liquidity. It's pretty normal. It doesn't matter what the company is. And these brokers will aggregate those shares and they'll charge usually like a 5% brokerage fee and they'll put them in a fund. And then you will be in a fund with other investors that

own share, basically common shares of this company. So it's a nice kind of stopgap. It's a nice way for regular accredited, you still have to be an accredited investor to do this. You have to self-proclaim yourself to be an investor that has like, what, over a couple million dollars of assets. It's $1 million of assets. I think individuals,

I forget there's income requirements that are you'd see so you either meet the assets requirement or you meet either individual or married income requirements and those individual married income requirements are around $200,000 a year. I don't remember the exact number you can look it up online.

Yeah, so there is a way to invest. There is a way to do this. And companies like Aptronic are trading at around, I don't know, like a $2 billion valuation-ish, I think. But with Forge specifically, well, with Forge, yeah, you need to be an accredited venture, but I think micro-ventures, you might not need to be an accredited venture. Oh, you're right. I forgot about micro-ventures, but they add...

It's a more expensive way to invest, but you get access with the lower entry fee. Yeah, it's expensive. I think the other ones probably are like 50 to 100K minimum investment. But I know friends that have invested through microventures at like $10,000.

Yeah, yeah, you can do that. You can do that. So there is a way to invest in these companies. I would just let everyone know that we're going to...

and know that these aren't liquid investments, right? These are, the capital is gonna be tied up for potentially a long time.

Yeah. Not liquid at all until the company goes public or there's some liquidity event. Yeah. Dave, do you have a way to share... Or someone else wants to buy your shares from you. Do you have a way to share this article? There's an article I just shared with you guys on text called The Robot Revolution. Yeah, I'll put it up. It was on time.com. If you're in this space, you have got to read this article. It is...

It is like it was written today. It's called the robot revolution about how we're going to revolutionize industry with robots. Uh, it was printed in 1980. Okay. And I was so stunned when I read this article. Um,

literally 1980 talking about how robots are going to take over the commercial landscape. And to an extent, they really have in a different way. When they talk about robots, they're not talking about humanoids, right? They're talking about the robotization of industry. And it was printed in 1980. One really interesting thing to come out of that article is if you read about all these leading companies in the space, so many of them

have gone out of business, right? So the companies that they're talking about in this space that are leading the charge with hardware and robotics are out of business. I think that humanoids and robotics are not immune to something called creative destructionism, which is, listen, I've seen more robot startups in the last two weeks than I've seen in the last two years. We are about to see such an influx of

of smart people getting into this space. And there will be a lot of new startups spinning up in the next one to three years. And we will go through a period of

creative destructionism to where we just have a lot of companies doing really interesting things. Some of them will get acquired. Most will not be able to continue to sustain themselves through this developmental period when it's difficult to monetize and they'll go out of business. That's the period we're in. So as an investor, you have to be...

smart about this. You have to understand the risk involved with investing privately in these companies at this stage of an emerging industry. Uh, part of the reason why I, I think you have to like lean into companies that will be around in a few years. So companies that either have the capacity to raise a lot of capital, which figure has right figures on a great job raising billions of capital, uh,

or companies that have really good partnerships that are aligned with big tech that have access to bleeding edge resources and talent that you wouldn't ordinarily have access to as a startup. So that's why I've always been a big fan of Apptronic.

with what they've been able to achieve with the DeepMind team and having access to that talent, which ultimately allowed Apptronic to raise $400 million on their own.

You have to look at companies in the space. Do they have enough money to survive or do they have enough integration with big tech that they can get saved? Right. Or they can leverage those relationships and they don't need to raise as much capital on the manufacturing side. Same thing again.

You know, I think you have to you can't just be a robotics lab. Right. I think we see a lot of great YouTube videos, especially some coming out of China. And it's like, wait a second. They just made a robot that can do that. I didn't I never even heard of these guys.

It's not just about having a robot that can do something. Is the robot durable? You know, there was an engineer that was quoted on a YouTube video talking about that Chinese bot that we keep seeing. And he's like, it's a one-time use bot. He's worked with them, right? It's not really a one-time use bot. He was just saying it's a one-time use bot because he's like, you work with this robot and after a couple of months, the motors are burning out on it.

he's like yeah they can make a cool video some of these chinese bots because they have so much pressure from government they have to show that they're making progress but it's not always about what the bot can do in a video it's about okay how durable are the actuators um how scalable is the actual bot platform um can you get that bot

is it supply chain ready, right? Is it actually using parts that you can actually integrate into a supply chain and move on to a manufacturing line and make for 50, 60, 70, $80,000 as opposed to the $200,000 plus these bots cost today to hand make. So, and it's because is the actuator you're working with, does it take,

60 seconds to build or 15 minutes to build? Like there's a thousand questions like that that don't get answered when you see these videos on YouTube.

And I put the link to that Time article in the notes on our YouTube video. If you're watching and you want to write down a long URL, you can do this on the screen right here. But it's an interesting article. And the predictions from 1980 about where we'll be by 1990 are just fascinating.

It is. Listen, I think what's really important and the reason why I want to share that article is because I'm probably now 400 hours of deep research in to this sector. All I do is speak to roboticists, robotic CEOs, venture investors that are traveling the world and meeting with every robotics and humanoid company. And one of our one of my good

recent friends who's an investor now in figure and apptronic. I mean, he's, he's going around meeting every robotics company on earth and we're, we're just sharing intelligence, right? Like we're sharing what we're hearing, what we're seeing, what's rumors, what's real, what's not real. Um, a lot of times behind the scenes, CEOs are like, well, that's just bullshit. You know, from when they see a video from another competing company. Uh, and so, uh,

What I would say is the biggest takeaway is we don't know yet. We don't know what we don't know. There's still a lot to learn. It's really hard to say anything with absolute conviction in terms of a timeline of what these bots will be capable of doing in the next three to five years. We still just don't know what the final form factor is going to look like.

uh we don't know what the ultimate winning bot company will look like in three four five years uh we can say that the bot companies that have the most resources and the best talent and the most capital and the biggest integrations to uh big tech and additional talent are

probably have a huge advantage. And that's why we've been saying Tesla is at a huge advantage, as is Figure, as is Aptronic, and now Boston Dynamics. Those are kind of four companies that stick in my head. I think 1X is a company that you need to also look at in this space and keep an eye on, especially if they're able to get a big tech partnership, which will open their world to more fundraising, right? Because that's what you need right now to be able to raise funds.

Can we talk about what is just purely hype? Because I know we talked about Unitree's G1 robot and what we've seen it do. Is that real? Is that hype? So what you're seeing is real and really impressive, but what you're not seeing is that those motors could burn out every 60 days doing nothing.

the things that it's doing, right? What you're not seeing, and by the way, people say, okay, this robot costs, what do you say, Dave? $18,000, $19,000. That's actually not true. They say $16,000 on their website. That's not true because if you want the bot that you're capable of actually doing anything with, it costs like,

what, $60,000, $70,000, I think is what they're charging for the version of the bot that you can actually... I like on their website, though, when you go to actually... to the page where you should be able to buy it, it says, call us for the real price. Exactly, exactly. And then when you buy it for that real price and you get it, you realize the bot's like four feet high, right? Which is fine. It's just...

it's, and it's not as durable. Right. And so like, no, 16 grand compared to the $200,000 we're looking at. Dave, it's not $16,000. That's what I'm trying to tell you. The one that you get for the mini, for the little two foot version. No, Dave,

Dave, you're not getting anything for 16,000. You're getting a bot that you can't train or model or do anything with essentially. It's super, super misleading to get that bot that you keep seeing. That's like $60,000, $60,000, $70,000 that you can get a bot that you could actually have walk and you could have actually trained to do any type of articulation. Um, that,

That's how much it costs, which is cool. I mean, that's actually great. This is what I like. You can't actually put it in your cart. It says contact sales to get EDU price, but contact us for the real price. The real price. This is literally on shop.unitree.com. I have a great quote. And it's grayed out. I can't even add it to my cart if I wanted to.

on what it actually includes somewhere here. If I get a robot that does this, oh, I'm all in. Even if it's two feet tall. Dave, have you not seen the videos of the guy that actually bought that robot? He's had it for like 50 days and what it's actually doing. Yeah, no, I've seen, it's something like Influencer, right? It's doing, yeah, it's doing almost nothing after 50, like it's not, that's,

That's why you have to be really careful on believing what you see. That's all I'm saying. There's a lot of hype out there, but there's also a lot of really cool things happening in the space. So...

If your timelines are correct and you're thinking out five, eight, 10 years, yes, all of this is exceptionally real. We just have a lot of work to do. I think we're going to learn a lot in the next two to three years in these pilot programs. Now, you have some CEOs saying that they're out of pilot programs. They're moving towards commercialization. They're delivering products.

Tens and tens of thousands of bots are expected. We'll see. Okay. I think the last mile of how this gets pulled off, it's going to be a show me.

Not tell me. Show me. And I don't mean show me in video. And by the way, I'm invested in these companies and I'm rooting for them to kill it. Right. To kill it. But I've also been around the block a few times with new industry sectors. And listen, speaking of remember, I mean, listen.

Elon Musk and FSD. Come on, man. Nobody. Elon is the goat when it comes to this stuff. And FSD is now 12, 13 years late where he said it was going to be. So we're kind of following along a similar kind of roadmap to where big promises are getting made.

That said, I don't think this is another FSD situation. I don't think we're going to have the degree of government regulation that we have to deal with in solving kind of the edge case scenarios perfectly for a robot that's just working in a factory. These are not driving, you know, $4,000 machines on the road with,

people and kids that you could just, you know, kill someone in an instant. So I think it's going to move a lot quicker in FSD, but it's not going to happen overnight. That's just, I don't believe it will. I will stand corrected right now if there's a company in a couple of years delivering hundreds of thousands of robots for commercialized work and managing those fleet sizes. I'll say that I was wrong. Speaking of...

I hear there's a chance that Nikola Motors may be having a CEO not go to prison. It's Trevor Milton who claims now he's self-reported on X that he's getting a full pardon. I figured it out. Why? I figured it out. Do you know why he got the pardon? No. He paid for it? Hold on. I'm pulling up the name of this guy. He bought Trump coin?

Okay. So, um, let's see. But it was my impression that he was not in prison. Um, he was sentenced. He was sentenced to prison. He is not yet. Okay. Any, any time in prison. Okay. So Trevor Milton was pardoned because he hired the right attorney. End of story. Uh, if you Google Trevor Milton's attorney, uh,

you will quickly find out that that attorney is linked to Trump. That attorney is linked to other really high profile people who were part of this whole pardon thing during the last Trump administration. His attorney seems to be the guy

uh, that can make things happen. But do we know if this pardon is real? Because it has not yet been reported on the department of justice website, which has its most recent pardon. As of two days ago, the 25th, there was a, uh, pardon of someone named Devin Archer. Um, we, it has not been reported on the white house's news site. It has not been reported by, uh, Trump on truth social, uh,

The only place that we've seen this, it's been picked up by news stories, but the source of that news story is Trevor Milton himself, the greatest con man of all time, says that he's been pardoned. And so it becomes true. He made a video self-proclaiming and thanking Trump for his pardon.

Is that all it takes to get a pardon is making a video and going viral for it? And then Trump like, Oh yeah, that sounds fine. Let's do that. Dave, Trevor Milton.com. He is producing a documentary about him, about himself. Have you seen this page? You've got to go to it. It's wild. Hey, when is that? Hey Dave, when is that asteroid going to hit again? I'm looking forward to that. Trevor Milton, 2030. Yeah.

Dude, this guy, man, this guy, I just, I just can't believe it. Do you see his documentary? Uh, I haven't found it yet. I, I, I just got redirected back to the video of him driving this car, thinking for the pardon. Trevor Milton. I thought it was Trevor Milton. I can't, I don't have my glasses, man. I can't even see right now.

I'll go ahead and pull up his X. Yeah, here it is. We have something to look at. Yeah. Trevor Milton.com. This is his, it's his, it's his documentary breaking. Oh, he has his own breaking news. Full part in grand. Dude, it's he, is he faking the whole thing?

He might be. That's what I'm saying. Today, I was issued a full and unconditional pardon, but the Department of Justice doesn't know about it yet. The president doesn't know about it yet, and the White House doesn't know about it yet. The three sources that you would normally go to to see if someone's been pardoned, other than the guy himself on his own ex-account, which seems to be the only source for the story. It's just wild. It's just wild. I can't.

There's nobody. And I mean, nobody was asking for this. Nobody was asking for this. I don't think it's true. I think we're going to find out that this is a hype story. Dave, I think... He's basically trying to promote his movie. Yeah, think about this. What other way to get yourself in every single news...

source, right? I mean, no one's covering him unless he says something that's just wild, right? He makes a full public statement, but there's no other corroborating evidence that he has received a pardon other than his own press release and his own tweet. Now, if that is not...

full-on Trevor Milton style. I don't know what else is. You may recall, this is the guy who... I've never heard Dave tell us. He had his full self-driving semi-truck that didn't even have an engine in it. They put it at the top of a hill and pushed it down and then filmed it going down as if it was driving itself. Have you seen the stock car? It's just marketing, Dave. Fake it till you make it, right? He's a pro at that.

The stock chart on that company, we were invested in that company. You were. You were invested in that company. I refuse to ever buy shares. No, Jordan, do you remember how bad, how unbelievable I hit the thesis on this? I said, I am investing in this company because this guy is...

the best pumper I have ever seen of his own stock. I was like, I don't believe any of it and I'm going to sell it at some point. And I bought it through the pump knowing that he was pumping. I was like, this guy's got to be pumping. We did so many shows on this, on this whole thing back, back in the day when it was hitting those all time highs over 2000.

This was classic. This was classic pandemic. I feel like I sold Dave somewhere along that first drop before it respawned. I actually remember that second spike there, but I think that's where I sold. Thank goodness. Do you remember when I did the whole show intro about a snake oil salesman and didn't mention him by name because nothing had been proven yet, but...

Yeah, this is the guy. And then it was proven, and then he was sentenced to prison, and now he's claiming to have been pardoned. He got himself back in the news. He did. And he's going to be able to promote his movie through it. If you're going to promote your documentary and you have no chance at a pardon, at least you get the coverage for your documentary, right? Maybe he's trying to sell his documentary. That's what I'm saying. Is this really a self-produced documentary about himself? Yeah, it's possible.

It'd be nuts. He's only going to jail for four years, by the way. That's like nothing. I know. That means he'll probably be in for two, right? I don't know. Is it federal? Is it a federal charge? I don't know. What was the...

I have no idea. Is it SEC? Is that, uh, I don't even know. I have no idea. Um, getting back to humanoids real quick, I think, and again, timeline, cause people keep asking, well, when's the chat GPT moment? I, I think the moment has started. Um, I think it, it's not, it's not one thing, right? I think over the course of this year, uh,

the world is going to start to believe in a very big way that the humanoid form factor is real and it's unstoppable and this is a real industry segment that is going to be the next big thing embodied AI I think that still happens this year I think it's back-weighted though because we just need to see it over and over and over again like I I think the the more

unbelievable a technology is like and you know we talked about this we watch the Jetsons growing up right guys and it just seems not possible that that could ever be real it's just too good to be true in so many ways I know some people have negative feelings about

on humanoids because of the displacement of work, which I think it creates more work, not less work for humans. So it doesn't bother me. But I think when you have something that is this unbelievable, it just takes a lot to get the average person to believe it's real. Like I'm still at dinners with, you know, business people and who are not up to speed on this sector. And if someone mentions humanoids because they know I'm involved with it,

like the eyes of the table just kind of glaze over. There's not, it's not like it used to be where, you know, we talk about something that like crypto and then all the dads would want to talk about crypto. Yeah. They're like, so I find when I'm talking to dads, you know, mostly reasonably successful people. Um, I talked to them about it and you know, maybe they're interested, maybe whatever, but I,

I'm surprised about five days to a week later, I'll hear back from people and they'll be like, "Hey, tell me more about this and how can I invest?" So they've gone and done the research themselves and they start to realize like, "Oh man, this is not like, Jordan's not nuts."

Jordan, the same thing is happening to me, but you have to, but do you agree that the first time they hear about it, it's first of all, it's not like it's not happening yet.

is what I'm saying. Like the general public is not aware of it yet in a real way. They might've seen a story, but when you see the story or you see the video for the first or second or third time, Dave, you kind of blow it off. Cause it's like, oh, this is just another overhyped like thing. That's not real. Right. Like you, your brain goes to dismissing it. You want to dismiss the sector. I think you have to hear a lot about it.

from a number of different sources and people like Jordan. I think when you're talking to someone about it, that gives it some credibility. So then when they start doing their research, they're like, well, Jordan is a real person that they know and trust. And, and,

Then now I'm also reading about it and seeing video. Then it connects the dots and makes sense. Someone that's watching our channel has been hearing about it for two years. Now they start to see other people besides the crazy dumb money guys talking about humanoids every day. And then they become believers. But if you're not in our universe, I think it takes a lot. I think it takes a lot before you're like, oh my gosh, this is happening.

how do I throw money at it? I mean, remember how much it took before you even believed in NVIDIA in large language models? Like even as you were using it as a person, you're using, do you remember people used to say when the LLMs first came out that they were just like hard programming them behind the scenes? No, what I think is, what I think was really hard to comprehend about the LLMs was just

i don't think anybody really understood the scale and the number of gpus that were powering these things yeah you know what i mean it's like oh yeah we're just buying some gpus and doing it not realizing just like the sheer number of gpus that are on and the dollars that go behind each one of these models i think that that's the hard that was the hard connection for people to make

Yeah. Oh my gosh. On that, you guys were not supposed to do shows on days where the market's crashing. We already discussed that. Nobody. I know, but we, we actually have a lot of people. We, we have actually more than four X people watching us on X than on YouTube. Remember when YouTube used to be the platform where people found us now it's all X.

Um, we have more than 4,000 people watching on X right now and just a thousand 30 on YouTube. Jordan, I want, I want to comment on what you just said. Cause I've been contemplating this, this, uh,

issue for six months of whether there is durable demand for chipset growth the next five years or not on NVIDIA with efficiencies that are coming into play with large language models. You know how there's that debate happening right now of will people still need NVIDIA chips, especially at this type of pricing? Will they still pay for it in three, four, five years? I'm starting to lean towards yes.

And I think when we saw what happened yesterday with OpenAI having to kind of like scale down bandwidth because of their new image processing system.

product that they just too many people were using it right it just reminded me that the inference on this stuff really does take a tremendous amount of of power and compute and everything that jensen's been saying even with the deep seek model he's like guys you don't get it he's like

the model is pushing more towards inference and you're gonna need a hundred times the compute for inference.

I'm starting to believe that now. And I'm starting to also believe that we're scratching the surface of actually utilizing any of this stuff. I mean, we're only going to be throwing more difficult things at AI as AI gets better. And I think your example with the image generation from OpenAI and ChatGPT was amazing because

When it first came out and then everybody started using it and it got slower and slower. And then the results started getting not quite as good because I think they're throttling how much GPU they let each image have. Okay. So, so guys think about this, my restaurant only because of me, my restaurant started using my, my head of ops and our head of social media and marketing started using that image generator this week.

to change our imagery on all of our menu items. So we were taking photos of our new menu items and they are tweaking them using that image generation. Every single business in the world at some point is going to do that, right? Right now,

essentially none of them are doing it. Like you have a few weird people that are keeping up with AI stuff. And by the way, we've changed that. Dave, that was like the 1.0 that he just like, he did that real quick. But he actually, we put it on a much nicer plate. We tilted the wrap. That's our new crispy chicken Caesar wrap, which by the way, it's the number one best-selling item we've had since we opened our restaurant eight years ago. It's crazy.

We've never sold anything like this before. We're selling like twice as much of that menu item than any other menu item we've ever had. This whole sorority chicken Caesar wrap trend right now is insane, in Dallas at least. I don't know if it's all over the country. I might have to go there for longer. Okay, so back to the chips.

- But Jordan, what happens when every company in the world is doing what we did this week? - Yeah, no, I agree. So, but I wanna make a point that there are companies and there are organizations and there are individuals that are contributing to open source projects right now that open up the ability to do some of this stuff onto AMD chips. So George Hotz that is behind TinyGrad

is creating an open source project that allows you to run LLMs and some of these advanced machine models on AMD chips. And so I'm wondering, do we start to see a more broadening out of where this hardware comes from? Is it just Nvidia?

or do we start to see amd play along too okay but what does it even matter because even if you could do it on amd chips even if you you know start to do it on a lot of these competing chip sets does it even matter because the amount of inference that actually needs to be accomplished the next year yeah no i'm not saying that like nvidia loses but i'm saying

relatively do we want to start putting some chips into you know into AMD stock right now too I I need to I need to I've been why I've been following that story Jordan I don't I don't know it's interesting right I don't know the answer yet I don't know if it will be adopted by major organizations um because they feel like maybe they're better supported with Nvidia and CUDA but

It's interesting and it's a trend that's going. I mean, especially for like hobbyists, right? So hobbyists, it's a no-brainer to go with AMD chipset and use TinyGrad. But will larger organizations start to adopt this as well? It is. See more sell-through of AMD chips. But I want to bring it back to robots and humanoids because Jensen, this is why he's pushing it so hard.

This is going to be the next frontier for compute. The world models and the inference that has to happen when we have billions of robots. And by the way, I'm not just talking humanoids. I mean, for every humanoid, you'll probably have one or more multi-use AI robots doing various things that also require similar amounts of compute.

So Jensen wants to have chips on every robot in the world. Right. So that's a big freaking deal. His chips right now, his Jetson chips that go on these bots, I think they cost $850 a piece.

right now, which are like, well, $850, that's nothing compared to what the H100s and the Blackwell, but no, these go on every single piece of hardware that uses AI as a robot. So NVIDIA could be in a position to be on every robot on earth.

in 15, 20 years with a chipset, all right, an integrated chipset, while also doing the AI stuff, right, that needs to be done for the training models. But the build-out of that world...

training model, Jordan, it's like a five to 10 year project. And it's going to take so much compute. And the more robots you get out into the world training on this stuff, it's going to get crazy. And NVIDIA kind of sits at the center of all that. They do, right? But I think the point is if you can develop things in an agnostic fashion where you can switch out the GPUs

underneath and still get the same performance or get, you know, costly, you know, some sort of like performance is just as good on a dollar by dollar basis. Maybe more efficient dollar wise. Maybe. But do you not think that people are going to want like we're going to want to push this

Like the use cases for this AI. Did you see, by the way, Jordan, in healthcare, the news that broke this week that they now were able to use AI models to have 99.8% accuracy of cancer detection as of a few days ago that they said is one of the most game-changing things to happen in cancer detection using an AI model.

It's all over the news. It broke. - Yeah, I'm looking to see what, so is there a specific type of cancer? What are they using? What are they using? - Yeah, yes, it is. I think it was related to prostate cancer, but they said the approach that they were taking

would be applicable to all cancers. So even though this one initial use case was, I think it was prostate. And I think the AI models previously were only at like 86% or something like that, right? So they moved from 86% to like 99%. I mean, this is a big freaking deal, guys, right? So

What I'm getting at is we haven't even scratched the surface of the applications broadly we're going to be utilizing compute for. Imagine when it's every small business in the world, every small business, every medium business, every healthcare company, every lab, every...

So basically every answering service, like you're going to call every company on earth is going to be using inference for their agents, right, to speak to you. I mean, anything that we're doing. Well, to me, that's just another reason that more hardware companies will have to be involved. And it can't just be NVIDIA.

- You're probably correct, right, Jordan? But even if others are involved, I think there will be kind of layers of complexity in what's needed and what we're pushing for. And the industry of intelligence is what I'm getting at here, has got to be the biggest industry we've ever known, mankind, the industry of intelligence, right? Because there are no bounds to it, right? There's no limits to how far you could theoretically push

the industry or even there's no ceiling to it. So I think health care is probably the

in my mind, the most exciting. It is. It has to be. For drug research and development, screening patients, there's a ton of applications. I really, really want you guys, and everyone that's watching right now, to see the documentary The Intelligent Game. The Intelligent Game? Is that what it's called? Of Demis Hassabis at Google DeepMind. It is really cool.

And you're right. I mean, when you see this movie and you realize we're like, we're going to solve everything with this. Oh, it's super inspirational.

But yeah, Jordan, I'm now leaning towards wanting to go all in on NVIDIA again. I just can't do it in this market. This market is just insane. Yeah, the market's nuts. I bought a little AMD just because of George Hot's project. Nothing crazy, just something to dabble, so I watch it every day. Oh, the Thinking Game. I'm sorry, I was misquoting it. The Thinking Game. It's awesome.

I am preparing, I think, to go. I'm not going to get too crazy. I'm just going to get back into NVIDIA in a much bigger way here at some point. Yeah. Man, what's bringing the I haven't even kept up. I've been on the show all day. Like, what's the what's rattling us today? More tariff news. I think it's inflation. I think PCE came in hot this morning. That's right. That's right.

You know what I've really been enjoying on the macro stuff? I've said this for a while. I can really care less about macro. I've just been watching. If there's one thing that you have to give Meet Kevin credit for, and I know he's a controversial guy, right, a little bit, I love just his macro takes. He just does such a good job of just breaking down whatever's happening macro

that day in macro. Well, I think it plays to his strengths, right? He puts in the work every day. He reads, he knows what's going on and he's got his finger on the pulse of all of it. So I just think that that's his bread and butter. And listen, it's not like I'm necessarily like doing what he's doing in terms of his interpretation of what would be a good trade based on what's happening. I just want, I just like hearing what's happening that day through his show.

And I don't even know how he does it because he's constantly making content. And when does he have time to even synthesize what's going on? Okay, so breaking news. Trump has confirmed that he is pardoning Trevor Milton. Wow. There we go. Here's a quote. My theory has been blown. I've got a quote. I've got a quote. So it's...

I don't know him, but he was exonerated, and what happened to him was very unfair. He was a very early supporter of Trump. He did nothing wrong. He's a good person. I had some fantastic recommendations about him. He did not say that. Your friend Ahmet has a quote from Trump. Dude. So if Ahmet is correct, then that is the quote. Who is advising Trump on this?

Oh, it's wild. I mean, he was a big supporter of Trump. That's kind of all you need to know, I guess. That might be why the market's down today. That might be it. Everybody just completely lost all faith in this administration. Did he just say he did nothing wrong? If Ahmet's quote is correct, then yes, that's what he said. He did nothing wrong. He's a good person.

was buried right in the middle of that he did nothing wrong he's a good person oh dave you got it here we go here we go yeah what was your reason for pardoning trevor milton uh highly recommended by okay wait so the reporter asked what was your reason for pardoning trevor milton that's

That's almost like we haven't actually done it yet, but he's now been asked the question, so he has to come up with an answer. So he's going to say, oh, well, it must have been a good thing because I guess I did that. Many people that was taken advantage of. He did a business deal like in Utah, as I have it. And I think he was exonerated. And then they brought him into New York.

We had a rough, rough road and road. He was exonerated. It was a big celebration. Again, I don't know him, but they say it was very unfair. And they say the thing that he did wrong was he was one of the first people that supported a gentleman named Donald Trump for president. He supported Trump. He liked Trump. I didn't know him, but he liked him. It was in Utah. And they went after him. They went after his family. They went after his businesses.

And he was, I believe, exonerated. And then they went after him again. And they brought him this time into Manhattan. And he had nothing to do with Manhattan. And they got him. And I said, that's unfair. There are many people like that. They support Trump. And they went after him. You don't realize this is a vicious group of people that were in this office before us. This is a vicious group. I kind of don't think the president knows who he's talking about. I don't think.

There was not a case brought to New York. He thinks it's someone else who was brought to New York. He did have a pardon a few days ago of someone else that probably is who he's talking about. He just, he didn't actually, but now he's probably going to have to because he's commented on it. Yeah. This is, this is just violent. What they would, what they were doing to people and you could go story after hundreds and even thousands of stories of

And they went after this man. And when I heard about it, I said, nope, not going to happen. They persecuted, they destroyed five years of his life.

He went forth for five years of his life and he did nothing wrong. And he's a good person. And basically, I had these fantastic recommendations about him from people that you know very well, all top of the line people. They thought it was a horrible thing. There are many such cases, by the way, many such cases.

I am. So he says absolutely nothing. There's no content there. That was a long answer for not saying anything. Being able to use the most words to say nothing. It's wild. This is why I'm trying to just simplify my life. I like having coffee every morning with my dog. And just, I can't. Guys, this stuff just drives me nuts.

It just drives me nuts. Yeah, I don't like this. By the way, I make that as a completely apolitical statement. I could be talking about Biden right now, Trump. I don't care who the president is. This world that we're living in just drives me insane some days. I think he's talking about this other dude that he two days ago gave a pardon to.

I think that this is the guy who's just talking about. Trevor is from Utah. He is from Utah, I think. So that would make some sense because he mentioned Utah. Who is Devin Archer? I don't know. I don't know. I'm going to ask Gronk. All right. By the way, on the tariff stuff, I mean, this tariff stuff is just... It's the most... It changes sometimes...

twice a day the tariff stuff right like is this going to be the next three years somebody just wrote on the YouTube I'm tired of winning

Are you tired of the golden age of America yet? I'm so confused. I'm so confused by, by, by everything, by the way, are there any, I can't, my computer died here. Are there any questions, Dave, that we should get to before we close out? I haven't had anyone's questions. I'm sorry, guys. I, my computer died. We've had a nice running commentary in the comments, but I haven't seen questions per se.

other than, well, it gets flagged because it's a super chat. Do you know anything about the Saratoga water meme? And are you going to play that at all? I already did. I actually just sold my Saratoga this morning.

The company that makes Saratoga. I actually did not think it would be a needle mover. I thought the stock might pump a little just because... I saw you post about this. I don't even know what this is at all. Oh, dude. It's this routine that some guy does where he washes his face with this water and it became a meme. And now the water and a banana is the meme. I don't know.

Jordan, it's a life coach. It's only 25, Megan. I mean. It's a life coach that showed his morning routine that starts at like two in the morning or four in the morning. And it went super viral. It might be the most viral video we've ever had on X. And it was Saratoga water was in every scene, which is so random. And it's made by a publicly traded company. The problem is the publicly traded company that makes Saratoga water makes like a

- A lot of other big water brands and Saratoga, I was computing it to be only 1.5% of their top line revenue. So even if they double the volume of Saratoga water as a result of this short term, I don't think it's going to have any type of outsized impact on- - Right, and are they even ready for that much distribution? Who knows? What's the company? - You can't ramp up distribution quickly with a bulk item like that. - Totally, yeah. What's the company?

that owns saratoga yeah uh hold on i tweeted the name of them earlier this week i i can try to find them for you here here it is triton brands it's prime yeah prime brands is what it's called prime brands so i don't think it's a viable trade i thought maybe it would pump a little so i picked some up i saw i exited today

I'm not levered in my account, guys. Right now, I'm being pretty cautious. Yeah. So...

I'm losing a lot of money even without being levered. So I can't even imagine how much money I'd be losing if I were levered right now. I don't have a huge position in Tesla at the moment, but I would like to start building my Tesla position up at some point. I'm trying to figure out when they get over the hump. I think Elon just has to get out of the public eye with his Doge stuff. I feel like he has...

i'm not hearing his name as much in the last couple days there's an ebb and flow at some point when you hear too much of someone jordan it has to go it has to break apart right like people are just going to get sick of talking about the same person or ripping on the same person yeah i guess this uh the um the signal thing kind of broke up some of the elon talk

It did. I think if you look at the June launch of FSD type robo taxi stuff that's happening in Austin, that could be, you know, the run up into that launch could be a momentum event for Tesla. I think at some point this year, Elon has to.

he has to show that Optimus is keeping up with the other uh humanoid platforms yeah he has to do it uh I would imagine that his team is working 24 7 to evolve Optimus right now I've gotten word that they are spending a tremendous amount of money on simulation data

uh, and compute to train Optimus up. I would have to imagine that will result in improvements in what Optimus is capable of doing. And I bet you at some point in the next few months, they're going to show some demos. And I would imagine that would get people more excited again about Optimus at Tesla. Listen, Tesla's having a low moment. We all know it. Uh,

you know auto sales are down everywhere mainly i think because of the transition in models but also because of the psychological negativity around elon and the brand and a lot of the

you know vandalism that's happening to dealerships and to Tesla cars around the world I have some friends that have Teslas that have been vandalized in the last couple weeks really yeah I've heard there are insurance companies that are raising rates on Tesla's also because of the potential for vandalism that that could be a problem how long does it take for us to kind of get through this period I don't know like I I just we'll see where the floor is on Tesla at some point you have to start building a position though uh

I just, I have to get it figured out. All right, guys, any other questions? Uh, this has been a long one. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this Trevor Milton story because the guy that Trump actually, uh, pardoned did have a, uh, trial. He was convicted in Manhattan, uh,

related to Manhattan convicted for his securities fraud and conspiracy and his role defrauding the Oglala Sioux tribe. I'm sure I didn't say that right. Wait, is this the other guy? This is the actual guy who...

uh, is on the, on the justice department's website as having received a pardon. We haven't seen anything on Trevor Milton on the official. Does that guy have any connections to Utah? Cause Trump mentioned Utah. Cause Trevor. Yeah. I don't see Utah, but he did have, uh, he was convicted for defrauding a tribe. Maybe Trump got confused about which state the tribe was in. Apparently the tribe is in, uh, well, let's see. No trials in Utah. Uh,

But Trevor did, I think. No publicly available information linking this guy's fraudulent activities or personal dealings to the state. Trevor is from Utah, though, so it's possible. He may be merging two people in his mind, or he may not know what he's talking about. I do not see anywhere where he was exonerated Trevor was in Utah, though. I could be wrong. I'm trying to find that.

We should probably be using AI for this, by the way. Who knows what we're doing around it. I asked AI, and that's where I got my information. And they say that there's no connection to Utah from publicly available information. And as we're seeing in the commentary, this Devin Archer guy was Biden Jr.'s business partner. So that's a political... That's what was making headlines when he got the pardon. I don't know. The Trevor Milton stuff is...

mind-boggling. I don't know how this is possible. If Trevor made it up and then somebody happened to like trick Trump into mentioning him somehow, can you imagine? It's kind of genius because now Trump will, because he doesn't want to say he misspoke, he'd rather pardon someone than admit wrong. Could you imagine? Could you imagine if he didn't pardon him and he just... Oh my God. Um...

You know, here's the thing, guys. You know this about me. Nothing pisses me off more than financial fraud. And it is so hard to actually get caught in due time for financial fraud. We finally get someone nailed and he gets pardoned. I just, it makes me sick. I'm running on the theory that this is an accidental pardon.

That would be hilarious. Could you imagine if Dave broke the news? Is that your opinion? Do you want to state that right now publicly? This is my opinion that the president did not pardon Trevor Milton and is confused about who he did pardon publicly.

Two days ago. And just made a statement about the person he pardoned a couple days ago because he heard good things about him. He doesn't know him, but he heard good things about him. And so he pardoned someone two days ago. Does that mean he will pardon Trevor Milton now? I ascribe to Dave's conspiracy theory. I am now... I think we now have a good chance that Trevor Milton does get pardoned. And the reason is he was asked a question. He didn't understand the question at a press conference. He knew he just pardoned someone.

And when he was asked about some, someone who was just pardoned, cause we've, we've heard in the past, he has misheard questions and he'll just answer the question he thought he heard, you know, he's old. I mean, it's, you don't have perfect hearing being shouted questions. I'm not blaming him for mishearing the question. I'm just saying that he probably misheard the question.

i don't know i might have to actually pardon the guy i think this is this is i believe this wholeheartedly now i i don't i don't because i saw trevor milton's attorney and trevor milton's attorney is an inside trump guy and he has been associated with other major controversial pardons as well so i think

I think his attorney somehow got this done. Now, Trevor Milton at one point was worth like $3 billion, right? In stock. Is it possible that he could have taken some of that money at the time that he now has a lot of wealth to pull this off? I don't know. You would think that he wouldn't have the ability to exit out of

you know, Nicola back then, I wouldn't think. - I mean, there'd probably be clawbacks and things like that. - He was dumping it back. - But he does have a recognizable name and this lawyer could be doing work on profits for the documentary if it comes out, you know? You know what I mean? Think about, I mean, there's ways to get paid.

I can't, guys. All right. We got to end this show because hopefully ending the show will improve the stock market. This is just... Oh, I forgot to say make markets green again.

Oh, one more thing though, Dave. Everybody, we need you to make markets green again by smashing the like button. We didn't do it properly. That's why the market's crashing today. Everybody put your green hats on. I want to get your quick opinion because I know you were watching. I read some people's evaluations of Hood's, Robin Hood's investor day as being a lot of fluff.

Other people have said, no, it's awesome. What do you think? Oh, I think it's awesome. Robinhood all along has wanted to be a financial services platform. They are not a bank, but they now have banking features and they basically are trying to be a private bank style thing for everyone.

So they, and they have some, some kind of gimmicky features. So instead of going to an ATM, you can now have cash delivered by going to the Robin hood app and just requesting cash. And it shows up at your house 10 minutes later. Um, it's just like a door dash for cash. Who needs cash?

Well, according to the event, which I did watch, I was invited to, I had a conflicting in my schedule and I couldn't go. But he basically, he said, I can't remember the stat, but there is a large percentage of cash transactions that still happen in this country.

It's not a lot, but you do occasionally need to go to an ATM. You need to tip your valet. You need to tip your valet is the only thing I can think of. I pay for beach chairs with cash on our vacation. Yeah. You know, where you get your beach chair set up and they put the umbrella. And now you can have cash delivered to you at the beach. You do not want to have to go to an ATM. Yeah. You would have used that service. Yeah. And it's free. You tip your driver just like you would any other delivery.

They have other features too. They rolled out a new AI. I can't remember the name of it, but they have an AI platform built into the app that's going to be coming this fall. Basically, you go to Tesla and it tells you what's going on with Tesla's stock. It pulls in market data. It pulls in research. It basically synthesizes a bunch of information and gives you a quick summary of why the stock is moving today.

And then they also did their investment advisor platform, which is kind of unique in its pricing instead of a percentage. Just like all these money managers charge a percentage annually on the amount under management. They're doing the same, but they're doing 0.25%.

up to $250 per year. And no matter how much money you have managed in these active advisors, which is kind of like a hybrid between a robo-advisor and, you know, it's customized for you based on a questionnaire you take basically.

But it's capped $250 as an annual fee versus an unlimited, you know, you have a million dollars being managed and you're paying a half percent a year on that. It's ridiculous. So they've done some unique things to kind of bring the level of service that

rich people have available to them and they've made it available to everyone. And so I think it's, I think it's a unique way of, of kind of getting into the banking market, getting into financial advisement and, uh,

And willing AI into their platform where you're doing your trading anyway, I think is just a nice to have. The banking thing is really big, Dave. Why are they having, they said they were doubling the number of gold card members. Why has there been a wait list? Can you explain that on the gold card? Well, it's a new product and all credit card companies have a very, you know, when Amex rolls out a new credit card platform,

Which they don't do often. They have the gold card, the platinum card. They don't roll out a new card. And if they were going to roll out a brand new black card for everyone, they have a black card. But if they were to try to roll that out, it would be a limited rollout. And so in one year, they've rolled out 100,000. They're going to double that to 200,000.

Okay, so I made my first wager on Robinhood last night, my sports wager. Prediction market, right? Not a sports wager, prediction market. I made it on Duke. They were the favorite. I have to say the process...

was unbelievably simple. Like I've wagered on sports apps before and I feel that they're kind of like a lot of the sport, like the BetMGM and stuff like that. It's geared for sports gamblers where this is, it's more speaking a language you understand.

in a contract market versus a wager. I think guys, I think it was awesome. Like I was like just the, they brought that kind of Robin hood magic to the process and made it so easy to do. I like, I,

i just like everything about it if they're able to get away with that i see that becoming a very large piece of robin hood someday i really do i just think that robin hood is so quick to like see something and and execute it like the sofa has been trying to roll out

you know, their banking product for so long and it still doesn't do like basic things like a joint account or, you know, there's certain things that it just doesn't do. Robinhood overnight gives you the ability to open an account. It's coming in the fall and to a limited rollout initially. But with, with just a couple of clicks, you can open your checking account and your savings account. They they're doing the 4% APY on all of your cash, the same way they do in the brokerage. Yeah.

They're giving estate planning somehow as a part of the product. They're doing professional tax advice. I'm now reading the website because I couldn't remember everything that they announced, but you'll be able to file your taxes. I can't imagine someone in a complicated tax scenario being able to do this, but you'll be able to file your taxes in a simple tax scenario. I imagine right in the Robin hood app. It's just, they're just moving ahead quickly with, uh,

trying to become a huge part of your, you know, every financial transaction. But Dave, can you explain, I heard that, but do they have access to your like W-2? Well, think about how TurboTax does it. They don't have access to your W-2. You click a button and you log in through one of those like plaid type login services and it pulls your W-2 into TurboTax. I'm

sure that Robinhood is going to do something very simple. They can log in. They already have your 1099s from Robinhood. I'm sure they'll be able to log in to other brokerages and pull in those 1099s. I'm sure they'll be able to log in and get your W-2. Other 1099s might be difficult. All the platforms have an online data exchange for it. With TurboTax, with Dave, your Schwab account, you just do a single sign-on to your Schwab account and it pulls everything in. Yeah.

And you have to figure tax software is becoming so ubiquitous now that whether they acquire someone or build them, like there's not that much to it anymore. And it's all AI. It's probably, theirs is probably going to be more AI native, right? As opposed to trying to rebuild a platform, bring AI features online.

Yeah, I imagine that I would just imagine they're starting from scratch and not trying to integrate on top of some existing platform. And they're probably going to be feature limited at first and not be able to do K ones or do certain things that are just more complicated. Jordan, are you in Robin Hood right now? No.

Why? You're talking about the stock or like do I use it as a platform? Stock. No. Why? Because I'm not in anything nuts right now. Everything's going to zero. But do you... You had Chris clarify the question though. Are you in Robinhood, the stock, or as a client? Are you a Robinhood client? No. Oh, absolutely not. Wait a second.

i am oh i'm not i mean yeah i am for like fun stuff like the sport i would put maybe like i don't know like 100 grand in there but i'm not putting real money into robin hood so jordan i know you've been getting super negative the last few weeks are you yeah have you sold all your stock like no no i'm just not buying anything nuts i'm not like i'm not buying like robin i'm not doing it i bought about a little bit i'm a starter in amd um

but no no i'm not i haven't sold a bunch of stocks why i'm just not i haven't been in hood robin hood's my number two position only because amazon's a legacy position i can't sell because i'll have the tax hit of my life if i sell it so

It feels to me like, isn't Robinhood something that you just have to be like? Yeah, I'll be in it. Okay. Once things calm down a little bit. Timing. Okay. Yeah. That's fair. I don't have any issue buying the stock. I just think the market's nuts right now. So you let it calm down. Dave, we talked about- Today was not a good day for Robinhood. It's not been- Is it not? But you never know when it's going to do a crazy run up. Yeah.

Yeah. Dave Robin hood. You know, we talked about this for the last six months. They were going to be the big, the most aggressive financial company in the world with all the deregulation. And they are, they're, they're just like everything that we thought they might do there. It feels like they're doing it and more and faster. Well, and people, you know, I, I posted, you know, on X when this event ended kind of listing off what, what they had announced. And I saw one comment said like,

Robin Hood, Robin Hood, private banking, asterisks. We're not a bank. I think that's actually a benefit. Like you don't want to actually have to be the bank. You just want to be the, I think of it like an operating system platform for finance. And then you're letting other people,

facilitators do the dirty work behind the scenes. Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. I mean, they don't have to have a brick and mortar location. They don't have to have anything. Instead of, I imagine that they'll have some sort of like debit card that you'll be able to actually use at an ATM, although they didn't announce that. But the fact that instead of having to partner with someone and give away money every time someone uses a debit card at an ATM or charge a fee, they're just like, well, we can have...

I don't know who they're partnering with, but we'll just have like a DoorDash type fulfillment thing. Just deliver cash to you wherever you are. People are used to having stuff delivered. They could always back into banking later if they really wanted to. Yeah, if they find that that would be more profitable, why not back into it later? Why not buy the bank that's facilitating it for them now? Yeah, it's true.

All right, guys, I gotta, I gotta, this is a late, late to start my coffee at one 30 in the afternoon. No, I did not even realize it's been so long since I've been back here at the studio. I didn't even realize we've been talking for two and a half hours. Uh, and we still have like almost 6,000 people watching us still. So thank you for watching. If you're on X and you haven't yet read reposted this, this would be a great time to repost this. I'm guessing that's how we found some new, uh, new viewers here today.

If you're watching this on the legacy YouTube platform, thank you for, for sticking with us there.

And by the way, don't take my negativity around timelines on humanoids as being negativity around the sector. I am more positive on this sector than I've ever been. I'm more excited about the humanoid sector than I've ever been. Yeah, I just think you need to set expectations. And I think that's the right thing to do. Yeah, I think people are getting carried away with the next two to three years. Next two to three years are

are going to be a tremendous amount of grinding work grinding work by hardware engineers ai training engineers trying to you know race towards robotic generalization in these ai models while getting better and better durability and articulation out of the hardware platforms while also scaling up

supply chain and preparing for an eventual scale up in the industry sector, but also deeply working in commercialization with some of the largest employers in the world. There's just a lot of work happening behind the scenes. Some of these robot companies, the leading ones,

have more software engineers than hardware engineers working on things like fleet management software, right? Like things that are just not sexy that you're not seeing right now in videos. So there's a lot of good stuff happening, but just keep your expectations down on how big the industry is going to get, how quickly it will get there. I just don't think it's in the next two, three years. That's all. Yeah.

can i just say one other thing on robin hood i saw this comment uh tips when traveling is a big one

Can you, how many times you've been at a restaurant where you pull up to the valet and you're like, Oh crap, I don't have any cash. And the last thing you want to do is go run to an ATM while at dinner. Imagine having cash delivered to your table while dining. Why do you only Uber to restaurants now? Why do you need cash to pay the valet? No, every valet is on Venmo. Now every single valet is on Venmo. And you Uber to restaurants. You don't drive. That's true. But I'm just trying to think when I would use cash.

Dave, Dave. Oh, and the other thing, the other thing that Robin announced. Dave is like a Mexican, basically, basically is Mexican now. So, so I bet you where Dave goes out and his Mexico house, they probably don't take Venmo. It's probably still cash. And he probably does strive to dinner. Sending money to people in Mexico is a major challenge for me because every Mexican bank is different. Like,

Banco Azteca, I can't send a Zoom to, which is the PayPal version of sending money. If I want to send myself money, I can't do it through those platforms. I have to use MoneyGram and send it to myself at a gas station, which is easier for me than going to an ATM. Robinhood did announce they're doing seamless...

country to country transfers where you don't even have to worry about which platform or how it's going through. They just figure it out seamlessly in the background. You just swipe the money across. I can't wait to try that and see if it actually works with, because I, you know, I have a gardener in Mexico and I have, you know, restaurants, some restaurants don't take credit cards. You have to like Trent Zell kind of transfer money to them, but they don't take Zell. So you end up using zoom or something. There's so many like,

ways in a cash in a cash based country that you have to send money. I can't wait to test out how it actually works with Robin Hood. By the way, can I just rip on your tourism sector in your country of Mexico, Dave? Yeah, go for it. It really pissed me off. I'm done with like going on vacation.

in Mexico. It has gotten so expensive. It's Mexico. Because you didn't go to the, you didn't visit the third world part of Mexico. You went to the overdeveloped resort land, America version. All right, let me just say that. So I stayed at the Rosewood Mayakoba for, that's all I needed to know. You say that the Rosewood in Mexico, the,

Of course it's expensive. The insult. The first night we're there, you don't even want to know what these hotel rooms cost. The first night we're there, we simply asked for a steamer. You know, a little hand steamer costs $20, the steamer to close with. Our concierge, we could have concierge, you know, text me back. I'd be happy to bring a steamer. It's $70 a day. A day. They want...

I get a steamer at like the La Quinta for free in my room. You want to charge me $70 a day? That's ridiculous. At a resort where you're paying thousands of dollars a night in Mexico? Did the resort know that your concierge was offering this? Because my guess is your concierge was willing to go buy one for $20 and bring it to you if you paid him $70. Yeah, the guy's an entrepreneur. No.

There's no regulations in Mexico. I've learned that, by the way. If it was $70 one-time fee, I'd be like, maybe they have to buy this thing. I'd be like, it sucks, but $70 a day? That is abusive. You had me at Rosewood. I knew that it was going to be too expensive when you stayed at the Rosewood. It was not my decision. I did not choose to stay at this place. I did not like anything about that decision, but I couldn't do anything about it.

It's, it's where I'm just saying that it's not a Mexico problem. It's a you problem. No, that's a Mexico tourism problem. And I just, it's, that's a, that's a,

It's a tourist trap problem. The rich American hotel problem anywhere in the world. I don't care what kind of third world country you go to. If you're staying at a Rosewood, you're going to be overpaying for things. No, no, that's not true. You stay at any hotel like that in the U.S. and you ask, you probably have a steamer in your room, but if you don't, no one is telling you they're charging you 70 bucks a day for a steamer.

I just bring whatever I need to steam into the bathroom with me and hang it up next to the shower. And then you get the residual steam. We did that, but the bathroom was so big, it didn't really steam up. So the thing is... Is this the brag about the size of your room now? No, it didn't.

It was big. It was nice. The, the problem. All right. And then my, my son got like, my son got sun poisoning and we asked for like a, a tube of Aquaphor or something. It was like that big, 80 bucks, 80 bucks. I'm like, come on, this is just abusive stuff happening down there. And by the way, do you remember we used to go to Mexico and it was like,

$549 included airfare and hotel and all your food for the week. Chris, you can still do that. You're just not, you're, you're not going to get that at the Rosewood. You can still go to Cancun and have a Cancun loco party for $500 for the entire weekend.

I don't know. Maybe. And, and thank you for the tip on wise. I actually do use wise for just about everything. That's the one though, that I can't send money to my gardener who uses Banco Azteca wise doesn't work with it. We should just do a live chat on how to, how to deal with. Hey guys, I'm going to go eat something guys. Yeah. Okay. I'm going to go to Chelsea corner. I think. All right. See you next week. Are you going to, are you going to be there?

Are you really going to Chelsea? I'm thinking about it today. Do you recommend that wrap? Oh my gosh. Yeah. It's incredible. I'll meet you there. So I'm going to go to, I got to go to coffee. My dog, she's upset. It's been like one 30 and then I'll, I'll drop the dog. Maybe I'll take the dog. I'll meet you there. Are you bringing Chimmy? I will. She usually doesn't like to go anywhere. She's, she's become a real homebody, but if she's willing, I don't force her, but if she's willing to go, I will take her. It's a nice day.

It's a nice day. Well, it was raining earlier. Is it nice now? You haven't been outside. You're saying it's a nice day, sight unseen. It looks decent. Looks decent. All right. Maybe I'll see you there. I'm going to have to talk to you first. Text me when you're headed there because I won't go until I hear from you. I will. I will. All right. That's it. Thanks for watching. I can't believe we did not lose. We've been wrapping up now for 10 minutes and we didn't lose a single viewer. I think you're going to like it. I really got to go. All right. Goodbye.

Hey,