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Dr. Laura's Deep Dive Podcast. I find that most people have an easier time forgiving others than forgiving themselves for the mistakes or naughty things that they've done. People can carry around shame, disappointment, and self-hate for a very long time. I always say that you should only forgive someone when they've earned it. I think that's true of yourself as well. And the way you earn forgiveness is by following the four R's.
Taking responsibility, showing true remorse, doing whatever it takes to make sure you don't repeat your mistake, and trying to repair the damage you've caused. Before Nancy called me for help, she didn't realize she had already started to do the work necessary to forgive herself for the abortion she had as a teenager.
Nancy, welcome to the program. Hi, Dr. Laura. Thank you for taking my call. Like your last two callers, I'm nervous as well. Thank you. I need some help. When I was 15 years old, dumb teenager, I got pregnant with my boyfriend at the time, and I had an abortion.
And I don't, and I'm in my late 40s now. And I have not been able to forgive myself. Okay, may I ask you what your criteria are? Like if I were your friend and I did something wrong, what criteria would I have to go through for you to forgive me? So just tell me how you see forgiveness. Wow, that's a really deep, tough question. That's what you get here.
Yeah. Well, I mean, I believe in forgiveness. I didn't ask you about your spiritual, religious. I don't care about any of that. I seriously don't care. I want to know your personal criteria for forgiving me because of what I did to you. I'm saying I'm sorry. You're just going to forgive me because I went, I'm sorry. Or is there more?
So there's not much more. Actually, if you're sorry and I feel you really mean it and that you've learned from your mistake, then I'm a very forgiving person to you. What if it wasn't a mistake? What if I intentionally did it, but now I have remorse?
I think I'd have a harder time forgiving, but I would eventually forgive. Why? In that situation. Why? Why would you forgive me? I intentionally hurt you, but now I do have remorse. I'm taking responsibility. I'm trying to repair it the best way I can. I won't repeat it. It's just natural to forgive for me. Obviously not.
Right, obviously not. You intentionally killed a child. You were a teenager. You got caught. You got scared. Society said, not a problem. It's not a human being. Just scrape it out, suck it out into a sink in little pieces, and it's done with. That's right. Except they forgot that women are human beings with sensitive feelings. And for most women, not all, there are some women who actually throw abortion parties. Right, I know. So here's my deal. You have no right...
to not forgive yourself if you have true remorse. Do you have true remorse? Every single day of my life. I just need a yes or a no. Yes. No drama, yes or no. Yes. Are you taking full responsibility that you made this decision knowingly? Yes. Have you ever repeated it? No. And what did you do to make sure, what did you do to repair it? I was...
Use protection. Right. Remorse, responsibility, no repeating, and repairing it. Now, the repair part we can't do. The kid is dead. Right. And that's what I think of every day. Well, we need to stop thinking about that every day because that doesn't make you a better person. It does not make you a better person.
I'd like to maybe help someone in a similar situation make a difference. Not in this day and age. I know. Not with Planned Parenthood getting paid for by the federal government. Not with them selling body parts and staying in business. Little baby body parts of aborted kids. No, you're not going to be able to make much of an impact. I'd like to try. Maybe this call is part of that. Just to...
anyone listening or in the same situation to really don't let the fear, don't be overcome by the fear. And it is not the right thing to do to have an abortion. Okay. You just completed the four R's. That makes you morally responsible to forgive the person.
This call today was very important because you finished the four of the four R's. Remorse, responsibility, repair, repeat. Since you performed these, you are under a moral obligation to give forgiveness. Thank you. So, I need you right here and now to legitimately tell the person you feel did a wrong to you and to yourself and to this baby.
Give the forgiveness now. Say it. I forgive myself. I forgive for taking the life of another human being. That's it. And that's the most any decent person can ever do. But the going through it every day...
does not make you a better person. What you just did makes you a better person. I will do my best to remember that. Good. Thank you again. You're very welcome. Take care. People will often call me and say they feel guilt over something in the past. And guilt is one of the most misused words I hear on the program.
If you want to get rid of the guilt trip you give yourself, you have to determine intellectually if you are actually guilty of something. Guilt requires intent. Did you intend to do something wrong? That's what I discussed with Julie when she called about her son's suicide. Julie, welcome to the program. Hi, Dr. Laura. Thank you for taking my call. Thank you. My question is, how do you know or...
How do you reach self-forgiveness? It's a decision. Okay. It's not a mood. It's a decision. I forgive myself. What do you believe you need to forgive yourself for? Well, I lost my son a couple years ago to mental illness, suicide. And every day it passes by me that maybe I didn't do enough. Is that a maternal emotional? Yes.
Or is that based in some fact? And I don't like perhapses. I like decisions. So in the time, and I'm very sorry about your son, but in the time before he killed himself, no, I'm sorry, in the time since he killed himself, have you come upon any information or awareness of something you ought to have done and were not responsible to do it? No. Although...
No, you can't be no and although, okay? See, that's the game you play in your head. Because, I don't know, if you hold on to... Well, let me ask you. What's the benefit of holding on to guilt about him killing himself? Because there is a benefit. There is a benefit. Yep. All I can think of is that it maybe makes me feel somewhat closer to him in a way. Yeah, talk a little more about that. That...
He, spiritually speaking, I feel he does know my struggle with this. And I truly don't believe he would hold anything against me. It's just that I was the last one to talk to him, and I feel like I let him go. Well, the truth is that if somebody's determined to kill themselves, there's not a whole hell of a lot you're going to be able to do about it. I do understand that. Once the decision's made, I know it's very difficult. But let's talk a little bit more.
about this keeps you close to him. Tell me more about that. Okay. Well, it gives me something to talk to him, to myself all the time. And so I say to him, I'm sorry I agreed to you. Okay. Then you need a way to stay close to him without blaming yourself. So let's keep the goal. The goal you, we want to keep the goal that you feel closer to him. I'm with you on that. But let's find a healthier way to do it.
So I think a healthier way to do that is to say, I miss you. Not I'm sorry. I miss you. I miss when you were four and stole all the pretzels and gave yourself a tummy ache. I miss that. How about we do this to stay close to him? I like that. Yeah. So let's start that process by you saying to yourself right now, I...
was not responsible for his suicide? I was not responsible for his suicide. Say it louder. I was not responsible for his suicide. But I miss him a lot. I do miss him a lot. And I'm going to talk to him about cool things that I miss. I'm not going to dwell on him being dead and how that came about. I'm only going to dwell on the joyous things I remember.
Say that in your own way. Go ahead. I will. I will talk to him about all the good times and everything I remember of him. And I will treasure those memories forever. Good. Good.
Thank you, Dr. Lohr. You're very welcome. And I'm terribly sorry this happened, but I'm happy that you do have some wonderful memories. I have 28 years of it. I'm happy for you that you have that. Yes. Thank you. You're welcome. Okay, I have to take a break. And I want you to think of one stupid thing you've done in the past that still embarrasses you to imagine and see in your mind's eye. Count to five.
and talk about five wonderful things you've done since. And I'll be right back. Dr. Laura's Deep Dive Podcast.
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Dr. Laura's Lunch Deeper Deep Dive Podcast. The reality is that most of the time guilt is the wrong word, as I said, and you're really feeling sad, remorseful, or disappointed in yourself. Even if you did screw up and are experiencing justified guilt, you cannot change what already happened. You're not perfect, but you can give yourself the chance to repair the damage, as I explained to Madeline in this call.
Madeline, welcome to the program. Hi, Dr. Laura. Hi. Hi. I really respect what you do, and I really would appreciate your advice right now. I'm going through kind of a hard time, and I'm specifically having a very specific problem. Okay. What is it?
I came from an abusive home. Meaning? Meaning. Who beat whom? My stepfather beat both me and my younger brother, who is two years old. And your mother? He's two years younger than I was. And your mother just let it happen? Yes.
Yes, she did. As a matter of fact, once she married my stepfather, who was a wealthy man, and she seemed to want to hold on to the money more than she wanted to be a mother, I guess. And did either you or your brother tell any authority figure?
No, we were very shut down. We didn't really talk about it except sometimes with each other. But the problem, my mother is no longer living, and my stepfather is very ill, but that's not my concern. My concern is that my brother committed suicide two weeks ago, and
Since that time, although I have a very happy life and a very beautiful marriage, I've been having trouble with memories that have been coming back about my own abuse, what it was like. And for the most part, I have been doing well enough that I have not really, you know... Your brother was two years younger than you, right? Right.
Right. Okay, I'm going to take a leap here, if you could listen to me for one moment. Yeah. I think the reason you're recycling your own experience is that you have guilt that you did nothing to protect your younger brother. Yes, that's true. And now he's dead. And now he's dead. Yes. Yes. Yes, Dr. Laura, that's true. Yeah. Oh.
Sorry. Don't be sorry. Don't be sorry for telling the truth to your heart, your soul, and me. Yes, I always try. I couldn't take care of myself. So, I mean, I couldn't protect myself. So I tried to protect him. Well, you didn't call the police. You didn't tell the teacher.
No. You didn't ultimately, the same way your mother didn't protect you, you didn't protect him. That's right. And that's why you're rehashing your own because you don't want to look at his. Well, I'm rehashing his, too. You know, I'm re-seeing what he went through, too. Okay. I'm going to reiterate how you started this call because that's the important part, not your backtracking. Okay. You started crying over your past.
And that was because you were distracting yourself from your guilt. And the guilt is appropriate. You didn't make the choice for him to kill himself. He did that. He could have made better choices in his life, gotten better help, been, have a good life like you do. Ultimately, that was his decision. But I think your guilt is appropriate.
Most of the time when a kid is being beaten by a parent, they usually get into gear when a younger child in the family is being abused also because they get in protective mode. Instead of being scared for themselves, that comes overrun. That didn't happen in this case. I can't give you absolution. I'm not a priest. I don't know if you're Catholic. But it's something you have to live with. Mm-hmm.
And the best way, I think, of honoring the truth that you should have protected him is to, from this day forward, be very cognizant of standing in between evil and the innocent. If you see somebody at a party being nasty to somebody else, you do something. You interject. You say, that's not very nice, and take that person and walk them away and give them some club soda. I mean, I'm just making a silly example. But I'm saying...
You can't fix the past, but you can use this as a lesson for the rest of your life that it is your place to stand up for somebody else. And that will take the place of the rehashing. Okay. I appreciate what you called. Okay, thank you. You're welcome. Don't let the energy that you are spending on what happened yesterday suck the air out of today like Epsi was doing when we spoke.
Espy, welcome to the program. Hi, Dr. Laura. It's an honor to have you listen to my question. You're welcome. Okay. How do I overcome this sadness, maybe guilt, for not having kept my family, my marriage and my family together? Okay. Did you have the power by yourself to keep the family together? Was that solely within your power, yes or no? No. Okay.
then guilt is not relevant. It's sadness. Okay. And how can you not be sad? We don't overcome sadness. Over time, we become less sad, less sad. It's always that little kernel. I mean, do you have any scars on your body, on your skin? I've got a ton of them. I do. Good. Skin's intact. It functions. But a scar always reminds you of what happened. But it doesn't hurt anymore. You don't think about it anymore. But it's there because it's part of our experience.
Well, sadness over something that's lost is part of our life experience. So we can't get rid of it. We can just minimize its power over us by doing the best in the future that we can. Okay. And what if that interferes with my current relationship? If I'm with my current person that I'm dating and I think, what are you doing? What are you doing wrong to him?
Tell me what you're doing wrong to him. I'm not enjoying the now with that person. Well, then leave him alone and wait till you're ready. People do not exist for your experimentation. Right, that's true. Okay. If you're not ready for the here and now, let yourself get ready. Give yourself a break. Okay, that makes a lot of sense. Okay, thank you. Don't be so hard on yourself. Even though it's been...
Seven years now since my divorce. Well, it's because you've been hard on yourself and never let it go. You've been beating yourself up over it. Yeah. You kept it alive for seven years. It's a great story I've told on the air. These monks live high in the mountains somewhere, and they have rules. One of the rules is you can't talk. Obviously, I could not join them. You cannot talk, and you can't touch a woman. Okay.
So three of these monks have to walk on this long trip to go get something or other and bring it back to the monastery. And they get to this small river, not real big, stream, more of a big stream. And there's a young woman there, obviously too small, too frail, to really be able to get through this because of the current. So one of the monks goes over, picks her up, carries her to the other side, puts her down. The three monks keep walking.
They walk for eight hours. Eight hours they walk. No, for you, I'm going to change it to seven. They walked for seven hours. Finally, the other two monks couldn't stand it anymore. And they turned on him to reprimand him by speaking, ironically. You know, you're not supposed to touch a woman. You carried her through the water.
And he said, I picked her up. I carried her through the water. I put her down on the other side. You two have been carrying her for seven hours. Wow. Okay. I love that one. Yes. Okay. He put her down. I hear you. He was done. Right. Right. You have to be done. Okay. Okay. I think I asked my ex-husband to forgive me for my part in the marriage not staying together, and he didn't forgive me, and I think that's...
Not everybody is the forgiving type, Espy. Okay. You can't let that be the measure of you. That's true. Okay. Thank you so much for listening to my question and for your answer, your wisdom. Thank you so much. Thank you. Take care. Okay, going to take a break. Want to make sure you're clear. Guilt is a reasonable emotion if you've really done something wrong. Otherwise, it's sadness, regret, pain, stuff like that.
I'll be right back. Dr. Laura's Deep Dive. Deep Dive Podcast. It's spring Black Friday at the Home Depot. So what are you working on? Right now, we've got 14 days of deals to elevate your gardening game. We're calling it Mulch Madness in the Garden Center, where you can get five bags of Scott's Earth Grow Mulch for only $10. Now that's a special buy.
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Dr. Laura's Deep Dive Podcast. Deep. Beating yourself up doesn't help you build a good life or contribute anything positive to anybody else's life. Changing does. And you can change anytime. Giving a profound, meaningful apology is a good idea as well. You need to devote your time to doing good and being good now.
If your head is filled with a list of regrets, I'd like you to try this exercise. Take a piece of paper and a pen and draw a line down the middle of the page from top to bottom. Write the word yesterday on the left side of the line and draw an arrow pointing to the left. On the right side of the line, write forever after.
with an arrow pointing to the right. Each time you start ruminating on a negative thing you've done, I want you to write that thing down on the left side column. Then on the right, write down what you're going to do forever after. So the left side might say, cheated on my spouse. And on the right side, you might write, avoid all opportunities to be alone with people of the opposite sex.
or, and or, spend more time being sweet and loving with my spouse. You're never going to be totally okay with that thing you feel remorse about, but that's not the only thing you've done in your life. Come on. Don't forget the times you were helpful and kind and loving when someone needed you. My advice is to accept your history and give yourself a lot of points for the good things you've done. Use the things you write on the left side of that paper as a catalyst for
to becoming the person you admire, you would admire, you would admire. Finally, I want to read this email from Mark about accepting your past self. Mark writes, my ex-wife divorced me after 18 years of marriage because of my severe alcohol and opioid dependence. I acted horribly toward her during my addiction, stealing medication, lying, cheating,
Fortunately, I now have 21 years of continuous sobriety. I'm still active in AA. Fortune had nothing to do with it. That was pure grit and character. I recently heard a call on your program with a father of a 35-year-old addict son asking if there was anything else he could do about his boy or for his boy or how to cope with it. I resonated with your comments about acceptance, which means you stopped fighting something.
You said, however, simply accepting a situation does not guarantee your emotions will not surface again. That was my aha moment. Throughout my sobriety, this is where it gets deep. Throughout my sobriety, I've experienced waves of guilt, shame, and remorse for how I treated my ex-wife. Emotions surfacing again.
She forgave me when I made formal amends to her. However, I have struggled to accept the hurt and disappointment I caused and the lost promise of our marriage. Deep. I've assumed this was my burden to carry for the rest of my life, and I've punished myself for it. Now I realize it's normal to re-feel. When this happens, now I renew my acceptance.
Basically what he's saying is I did these horrible things. They had long-term impacts on people I was supposed to love and take care of, and I feel awful, and I bounce back into feeling awful after thinking I've accepted it. That's normal. Just renew your acceptance. That was then. This is now. You have helped radically change my attitude and helped me release the burden I've been carrying. Keep up the good work, and thanks for the...
aha moment. Well, I appreciate the aha moments. Yeah. You can accept certain things. That doesn't mean from time to time other feelings are going to re-percolate. And you have to recommit yourself for accepting, making the best of, and doing better, and not harming people again. But it keeps re-percolating. There's one more level I want to add to that. It only re-percolates in good people.
Only good people feel guilt. Only good people feel true guilt-remorse. Only good people. Yeah, I know, we can't easily rid ourselves of our sadness, but we can try to minimize its influence over our lives. Accept yourself for the whole of you and not for the act you'd rather forget. Give yourself forgiveness and move forward. What pain have you been carrying around in your head and heart? I am here.
to help guide you through the process of setting it down. So give me a call at 1-800-DR-LAURA or go to drlaura.com and make an appointment to speak with me on air. Now, go do the right thing. If you like this podcast, be sure to rate it on Apple Podcasts or your favorite place to listen to my podcast. Of course, I'd love if you gave me five stars.
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