Friend Groups
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Hello everyone, welcome back to my podcast, Inside Out, or 自以为是 in Chinese. This is my third English episode, and my guest is a friend with whom I went to the same high school and is now attending the same university. Back in high school, we do not consider ourselves as friends, we were just classmates.

But we were in the same programs throughout high school and university where we had almost all the same classes together. And we grew closer together in university. Because once everyone goes to university, it naturally grows closer together with high school friends, right? In this episode, we talked about making friends in different phases of our life.

and the dynamics of a large circle of friends versus a small group. This will be a casual conversation. We really talked a bit about everything, and I wasn't sure if I could make an episode out of this. Eventually, I decided to make this episode, mostly because I realized that I haven't published an episode in over a week.

Even though I did not set a strict deadline for myself, I didn't want to disappoint my audience who might be looking forward to a new episode every week. No matter if you're my Mandarin or English speaking listeners or both, I really appreciate your listenership and thank you so much for supporting me and hope you like this episode. ♪

So we can talk about groups of friends. Sure. Yeah. And what else? How's your life? My life? Yeah. That's a very big question. Oh, last term? Oh, that was... Oh, you know, we can talk about online school. Talk about what? Online school. Because people in China don't have online school because they have it under control.

Sounds pretty boring. What do you want to talk about in online school? We can shit on profs for being assholes. Oh. No, I'm just kidding. That's boring. I think the topic that gets views are the ones that are relatable. So, for example, the one I did with my friend, we talked about long distance friendship. I didn't have any...

influential guests who could boost my views and the view listens were not bad so that means yeah but if i just talk with my friends with no topic or if there's nothing i can cut out of it then no one wants to listen to that either because when i listen to other podcasts where they just talk with their friends

It's very rarely, unless it's like a co-host situation. Yeah. You just meet someone with a good sense of humor. Wink, wink. And you have to know each other really well. Uncle Roger, who is Nigel in real life, has a podcast that's pretty interesting, I think. Yeah. You told me to watch it.

I can't stand his accent. His fake accent. No, no, no. He's podcast. He doesn't have an accent. He's podcast. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, shit. I thought you always talked like that. Uncle Roger is the character he plays, but...

He is a comedian called Nigel Nguyen. Oh, really? Yeah. And he has a podcast called Rise to Meet You. And yeah, his co-host is Evelyn Malk, who is a Chinese born in New Zealand. And they talk about stuff. And Nigel Nguyen shits on other people a lot in Asian way. Yeah.

Sounds like I like it. Yeah, I think so. So if you want to head out with a group of friends, do you want to head out with each of them equally? Oh, equally? Probably not. Yeah, then why don't you just ask a friend you want to head out with and head out with him?

I don't want to hang out with anyone one-on-one. You don't? I mean, I could, but I wouldn't want. Why not? I think three is the magic number. Three people groups. I don't like three people groups because one is bound to get cold-shouldered. Well, not necessarily. If you have a three-people group, then it means that whenever two people are done talking, the other one can join in. So the conversation just never stops.

So why don't you like to hang out one-on-one with your friends? Because it's kind of awkward. Well, not really, but like, I think it depends on the person. So for instance, if I were hanging out with one-on-one, I did that with him in Taiwan, but it was, it was all right. But like, but it's different. Neither of us have any ideas of what to do.

I don't know if it's the same with girls, but when guys get together, when you have more than two people, you start doing stupid shit. That's what I like about hanging out with guys. Mob mentality. That's true. Can't relate because we don't start doing stupid shit. Well, maybe I'll try to get you started. But like two people, you can talk about intimate stuff and deep conversations. Yeah.

You don't do that with guys though.

Maybe that's what you need to work on. Yeah, yeah. Sorry to all the people out there. I'm not trying to be sexist. I try to work on myself. I think the deepest talk that I have with guys is talking about how we don't have girlfriends. How we're sad. How we got deep. We can talk about that and we can talk deeper. Well...

that's what I said that's about as deep as we get so do you it's really hard yeah so can you have deeper conversation with girls then well the deeper ones I've had are with girls like yeah I guess well uh about relationships about like in my opinion what's deep is just to try to understand the other person and that's deep when you talk with girls then

they often like make themselves expressing themselves and trying to like understand you you know and when you chat with guys and you talk about that that kind of stuff it always turns into like one person laughing at the other person at least that's what I that's what happens when I talk to my guy friends yeah but do you want to have deeper conversations

Yeah, depends. Sometimes it's fun to have. Sometimes it's just too much of a hassle. Sometimes it's easier to just keep it chill and just laugh it off. Do you have identity crisis that you need to talk about? Identity crisis? Not really. I'm pretty sure I'm a guy. I'm pretty sure I'm not gay. No, like when you start questioning your life, questioning about the choices made in your life.

I think I'm pretty conscious of the choices that I made and I already know where I fucked up. So I don't really need someone to discuss that with. Do you find that? Or do you want to talk to someone about your life choices? That's true. Actually, I don't really want to talk about because I know where I made bad choices. That's true. Yeah. But I think when I talk with my friends about stuff, it's

sharing new experiences, like stuff that we are exploring. And when you are exploring something, it's like new and you want to check with each other about their feelings and

For example, on spirituality stuff, I would talk with Claire. And on relationship stuff, I would talk more with Sylvia, maybe. Oh. Yeah, that was a very good answer. You make you really sound like a podcast host. I had a question for you. Which stage of your life do you feel like you've made the most of?

friends or you feel that you're most attached to that peers of people uh i don't know i think thinking back to my life i don't think there's a particular time where i really make friends like i know it's kind of weird but like you make friends but you don't feel like it's kind of hard to understand what friends is because sometimes you just there's things that happen then you just start to doubt

Whether your friendship is actually friendship or it's just people trying to take advantage of each other. Being friends with someone, whether you just want to be friends for the sake of being friends or you're only being friends because you're expecting something from them in the future. But I think friends also have to take advantage of each other aspect to it. Yeah. I guess the conflicting idea that I have is whether...

Friendship is altruistic. And whether there's like a selfish element in you trying to be friends with someone. And when you think about things that way, it's kind of hard to think which one of your friends is the best friend that you have. I think that's a big topic, but I don't think my friendship is altruistic. Yeah. Yeah. I don't expect the other to be being friends with each other. It's like you...

It's like you take out emotional loans of each other and you expect to be paid back.

more or less not precisely but if it's imbalanced that you don't feel happy about your friendship and also thinking about like because your question is when do you think you make the friends that you think you're most attached to it's hard to answer that because you start to compare yourself to people that are friends so say you have this one friend but they have other friends and you kind of compare yourself to them and then you

you feel like you can't be attached to them because they're better friends with someone else and their friendship changed so it's hard to define how much it's hard to say like maybe I just don't want to admit that I think of them more importantly than they think of me yeah so I guess that's the problem so do you have a best friend that you think are your best friends to each other

That's another difference, I think, between guys and girls. I mean, there are definitely guys who have best friends, but in my experience, I don't think there's a best friend. If I have to say one, it would probably be but at the same time, I don't think he would treat me as his best friend. It's not reciprocal, but

I think he's the one from high school that I most interacted with. Yeah, maybe different. What makes you think a friend to you? A friend? What are the elements? Yeah. Ideally, a friend is someone who's willing to sacrifice some aspects of their life for you. Ideally, if I have a friend and they're in trouble, then I would put things out of my way to help them.

And if something happens to me, they would do the same for me. You never know until that thing happens. And so, yeah, that's why it's hard. That's interesting because I feel like at this day and age, there's not really anything that's going to happen to that you would need some really big help from.

Yeah. And it has to be a balance. So if anything big happens to you and you expect your friends to sacrifice part of their life to help you, and as you said, you're expected to do the same for them. But if it's always happening on one side and not as much on the other side, then I think that friendship is not going to work. It's kind of like you both really have a very big credibility or trust or being each other.

And just that trust or credibility that if anything happens to each other, you're going to be there for them. Yeah, it's definitely based on trust. It's kind of like the insurance. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But a lot of times it's just in your mind and nothing actually happens. And maybe when something happens, you're going to find out that the trust is not well funded or something like that.

That's very well said. Yeah. That's why I like. That's why I feel like day to day, I don't consider that aspect to be important for best friends. I just think at any point in life, there's one person that I can trust or talk to the most and, and with whom I can share my intimate thoughts and, and it might change on if you move on with your life or go to a different place and,

Or you might have some other friends that you talk less with, but talk about things that you don't talk with your so-called best friend. That in part is kind of like them taking a, sacrificing a part of their life to help you. Like you're kind of helping each other by giving each other a chance to share. Yeah. And that's the more realistic thing that's being exchanged most of the time. Yeah.

Yeah, if you combine that definition, then I guess friend would be someone who's willing to listen to you and who actually listens. Yeah. Because if that's what you need, and they're giving you what you need by listening to you and giving you a channel to direct your emotions to, then I think they're doing something for you. And that would be a good friend, in my opinion.

It's like the metaphor, if you have two candies, you'll give one to your friend and save one for yourself. Versus if it's someone you love, you are willing to give both to the other person.

I didn't feel more like that with my friends I made earlier in my life. But I feel like from this point on, all my friends are going to be at most 50-50. Even 50-50 is a big deal, I think. I definitely agree. With me and the friend that I met in high school, I think it's more... Yeah, I'd be more willing to help them than say someone that I met in university. The earlier you met them,

it kind of feels like you guys are more connected because I think it's because you guys grew up together. Growing up is where your emotions are the most vulnerable. So that's when you really supported each other. I think the word is 革命情感. You ever heard of that thing? Like you kind of, you've been through the same thing together. And so you've been through the growing up phase together. And with Yuni, you don't really do anything together.

it's more of a three-tier just trying to succeed definitely less um what's the word I'm out of words it's okay you need the friendship are more selfish I think my friendships now are pretty selfish like

I think I keep a lot of track on, say, if they do something that kind of bothers me, I feel like I have to sacrifice a little bit. There's like a scale in my heart that I keep track of next time if something they do for me and...

If I feel like it's out of balance, then what I would do is to adjust my mindset and try to think of the other things that I haven't accounted for in the past to get a balance or think about what I really want from this friendship and what I really get from this friendship. Basically, I would have to convince myself that I still want to keep this friend as a good friend. Yeah. Yeah.

I hope my scale is still calculated. I'm not even thinking about you. I don't even have a scale. I'm just the person on the side. Yeah, I think...

That's why we always want to find like a boyfriend or girlfriend because that would be someone you don't have to be so calculating. Yeah, yeah. That's definitely the attraction of being a relationship. Yeah, yeah. Like the attraction part can just outweigh a lot of things. The attraction is the bonus points. Super flexible, infinitely expanding weight that I can just like put on either side.

Yeah. Even though they're like a zero in terms of things they did for you. Yeah. Okay, plus 10. Yeah. It's also who that friend is to you, I feel like. Because I would figuratively speaking keep tabs more on people that I'm in university. Yeah.

friends that you're not attached as much yeah yeah like for those people I was more so kind of when they asked for a favor I would I would think about like well what did you do for me and if they didn't do anything I'd be like nah yeah for people that I met in high school if they asked me for a favor I'd probably do it yeah I feel like there's also the feeling that

They could have asked someone else from high school, but they asked you. So it sounds like they still want to keep in touch with you. They went over the trouble of having to reach out to a high school classmate to ask that favor, which means you're still close in their hearts. And that's why they asked you. That's why you're happy to help them.

Damn. Honestly. Okay. Yeah. It's easy to ask someone you are in the same school with at the moment. But if you have to ask someone a favor from the past, then you'll have to deal with all the... It takes effort to ask a favor from someone in the past. Yeah. That's so true.

Like when people close to you in real life and then like got emotionally close to it,

Say you're in the same university, then they're asking you because it's just for convenience sake. Yeah. Yeah, I definitely see that. You know, I think that's true. I think that's true. That's probably why I want to help them more. Yeah. Now I know that I'll try to get rid of that bias and not help anyone. I'd be like, bitch, I know you're trying to psych me.

I also evaluate, oh, so if I have to help this person in university, are they like a good person who would help me back or are they ungrateful? Yeah. Yeah. But then, yeah, it's kind of hard. I don't know if there's this thing with girls, but for guys, there's kind of this

facade of being a bro like you know how guys just talk to each other like a bro and they're like hey bro and then you kind of have this imaginary bond that you think you guys would have each other's back like it's just the societal mindset that is that guys will have each other's back and there's this aspect of loyalty okay so you're acting to maintain that facade yeah there's kind of this facade for guys but I mean if it works it's not a facade anymore yeah

I guess I guess just guys trying to preserve their reputation yeah a lot of times it's just that it's just like oh you know I'm a good bro I'll do that to my brothers in need you know the more you think about it the more you realize how selfish you are yeah is there the same pressure the same pressure for girls yeah

Maybe, but not for me because I don't have a large group of girlfriends. If I have girlfriends, it would be one-on-one.

because you know like how in the social media like at least guys are portrayed is that it's like a pack and how girls are portrayed is kind of like how they call each other sister but then like behind the back and stab each other kind of so it's acceptable for them to actually stab each other yeah i'm kind of talking about stereotypes i feel like stereotypes is like a reflection of real life

disclaimer for yourself it's okay i'm anonymous yeah are you worried that you're not woke enough for a podcast i'm definitely not woke enough i probably just wake up i'm probably still like sleepy do you think you're woke i feel like i don't know if there's a standard to woke or like a definition to woke um

I would think of woke as having the superior ethics, but ethics, you can't, there's no standard answers to everything that this is good ethics because so many things are controversial. Let's keep talking about friendship. So I feel like a lot of people were a lot more attached to their high school friends than I was.

My high school friends felt a lot more attached to each other than I felt to them. And you feel guilty for them being more attached to you?

No? No. Okay. I don't mean to say that they are more attached to me than I am attached to them because I don't think that's true. But I'm just saying they're attached to their friends overall. I don't feel that any of my friends or classmates can be a lot more attached to me than I am to them. Even if there's imbalance, it can't be so big.

Yeah, I just felt like we were never that close anyways. But I feel like after you move on to a different phase in your life, and if you're still able to keep in touch with your friends from the past phase, then you guys would grow closer. And I think that's for me and also between me and you.

Yeah, yeah. I think it's definitely that aspect where you talked about previously. Yeah. When they make the effort with you, even after they go to somewhere else, that connection that they have. Like when you connect with someone from your high school, then you feel more attached to them. Yeah. I mean, we weren't really friends in high school. What do you think? We were friends in high school? Oh, that's true. We were, you know. Yeah.

And the reason we became, are we friends now?

In university. No, I'm just kidding. Yeah, I think we're friends. It's because it's a big group of friends, right? So how did you... I feel like I just followed you and into it. But how did that start? Was it Welcome Week or...? No. Actually, I barely made any new friends in university. They're all just my friends from high school and I just kind of brought them together. So who's new? How did it form? Um...

I didn't know. Yeah. I was like, wow, what a cool dude. And so I just started talking to him and then we became friends. And he was brought in by...

was also brought in by and also brought in by and I think that's basically the bulk of our group I was kind of um I don't want to say not too happy but but like not too proud of myself for like going into university and then thinking I would make new friends but then choosing to stay inside my comfort zone and then just hang out with my old friends

And I feel like once you have a group, it's hard to make new friends because you're just always in a group. Yeah. Yeah? Yeah. Oh, I didn't know either. I think he came because of you. Or because we're the popular Asian kids. Oh, not really. I don't know about that. What do you think was the...

What's the word? 名字里 Something 给神 Coagulation Coagulation That's not like the right word though Coagulation Yeah, but that's for blood Oh, cohesion Yeah, cohesive That's a better word What do you think is the source of cohesion in that group of friends? Or what is it for you? Weird No

I was going to say, that's probably too afraid to be left out in freshman year. That's definitely that. Yeah. No, it's just like, I think because I knew them and then they're also in engineering, I was just the middleman. I was kind of the agent that brought two parties together. Wow. Yeah.

And also because, you know, like when you're a friend with someone, you know that you can get along with that person's friend. So like, it's just easier, right? Yeah. Yeah, but definitely not me. I was just the thing that kickstarts it.

What kept us together was that everyone's pretty similar-minded, you know? Like, we're the good kids, kind of. Okay. Don't go drinking, don't go partying, that kind of stuff. I think that's hard to come by in the university group. So what made you want to head out with that group? I think it's just because everyone's a good person. Like, whenever you go into a new group, right?

whether you're conscious or not, you start to appraise them. You start to judge them and it takes a while for you to actually believe that they're a good person. But in this group, I already know everyone's a good person. So you just keep hanging with them. I think I have to admit one main reason I hung out with the group. What is it? Can you guess?

Yeah. Oh, you had a question? Yeah. Damn. Was it not obvious? But you missed out because in the beginning of the semester when we were asking who you think is cute. Yeah, I know that. You said your name.

Yeah, told me that. Oh, really? Yeah, you were there. Why didn't you make the move? Oh, I was? Yeah. Yeah, one time we were having dinner in the comments box. No, I don't think I missed out. I think like if I were to, I'm pretty sure those though, because I think. Yeah. You weren't that obvious. Yeah.

maybe not but anyways i don't think i missed out but i think because i after i knew that i started like to be really hopeful and stuff yeah yeah oh yeah all the all the tables that turn yeah i think that's what kept some people in the group together because i think probably like and like right

Oh, shit. Oh, no. You didn't know that? No, no. I didn't notice that everyone likes each other. You didn't know...

I knew that. I knew that. Okay. I didn't think that was why. So it's kind of like introducing your boyfriend to the family kind of thing. No, but I think it's like really awkward if you make moves one-on-one, but if it's in a group, it's like you feel safer and you can get to know each other better from the group. Yeah. Yeah.

I think for me, I don't particularly like large groups of friends. So if I do stick with a large group of friends, it would be because I like someone or some people in that group. Okay, I'll keep that in mind. Does that mean you'll start thinning out from this group? Have you moved on? Yeah, I have. That's good. I thought it was pretty obvious. Yeah.

Well, not really. I never made a move. I definitely didn't try to be obvious. I don't know how to make a move because I was so... I didn't have any... I never dated before and I didn't have any knowledge on how to make a move or anything. That's what I've been working on recently, in recent years. Let me tell you about guys. If you're a girl and you like a guy, you just tell that guy.

Nine out of ten, he's going to say yes. That's how easy guys are. I don't think that's true. Nine out of ten. Anyways, I definitely didn't have the confidence to do that. But I think I would have more courage in the future because after I've been through a lot of states, I think I definitely... Because before, I was always just overthinking everything and just putting everything in my head.

Yeah. Well, you definitely don't need to. Guys are pretty simple. At least the guys I know. Maybe I just have a biased sample. Yeah. So I think with group,

My feeling is that, like right now, the old me would be like, oh, I don't really want to hang out with a large group of friends. You just play games. And I don't really feel more connected after playing a game in large groups. So what's the point of it? But I'm trying to get out of my comfort zone and think maybe I should just enjoy having a social group.

That's something I do in consideration to get out of my comfort zone and be a better person, be a better version of me. Yeah, she'd like a job. I do so many things like this. I think for me, playing games is not the main thing.

We're just mainly there to catch up on things. People will ask each other how they're doing and what they've been doing with their life. Just a way to keep track of where everyone is. Yeah. But I guess if you don't care, then that's not information that you need. To be honest, after I asked them, I barely ever remember what they said. So why do you do that then?

Do you just enjoy feeling like you're the glue of the group? No, no, I definitely don't think I'm the glue anymore. Really? So who's the glue now? There's no glue because not everyone knows each other. My function is only just in the beginning to tell them, hey, there's this person that's in the same engineering as you. And my function ends there. You need to find someone to do something with. What would be your ideal pattern of sense?

like proportion of friends you head out with in small groups versus large groups? I think when it's people you don't know, people that you don't know that well, it's good to have a big group so then you can just try to avoid having to interact with them. But if it's a group of people who you know pretty well, you can go up to like five or six people. I don't know. It's like, I'm so bad at putting...

words putting thoughts into words you're doing good doing well rather than not see you're doing well please let me do that I got I got 70% in my English courses so this is the only thing I took away from that was just me letting you have it okay thank you I appreciate it that's what a good friend should be let me have my moment

yeah I feel like a horrible person why because I don't really want to be their friend

Be your or be their? Be their friend. I'm sorry. I don't think the feeling is like non-reciprocated. I don't think it can be like if you don't want to be their friend. Do you think they're like really wanting to be your friend? No, I think they're just there. Like there's no effort there where people try to get to know each other.

So did you like anyone since university? No, I don't think so. Because for me, I almost always like someone. There's always someone there. Yeah, I always try to find someone to like. Yeah, I don't really put the effort. And also, if you just think about the group that we're in, there's not that many girls. No. No?

There is about half-half, maybe more girls than guys. Well, but you don't meet new girls. So if the girls there, none of the girls there you like, then you don't meet new girls. You can meet new girls in your classes. Easy for you to say. Yeah, I don't think it's possible because the classes are too big.

what about well there's only like we only have like 20 people right we're like what are you 70 60 70 oh okay there's not that many girls so they didn't like anyone no was there anyone that's cute

yeah i think there's quite a few really yeah well i have weird standards oh yeah she's cute but like she's not my type so oh okay yeah i have weird taste is your type like still the same as your high school crush no no definitely not so what's your type

I haven't figured it out yet. Now when I look at the high school person, I was like, how did I even like her? I was like, yeah, that's weird. Maybe that's your rebellious face. Yeah, no, I think it's just because at the end of the school year, everyone's saying they have a crush. So I'll name one. Really? Yeah.

Like she's the closest girl, female friend that I have. So I was like, yeah. And also, yeah, I don't know. I don't know what happened then. Yeah. So I haven't really figured out my type. That makes sense because I can only figure out my type by looking at the past people I've liked and try to find a pattern. Yeah. Yeah. Oftentimes there isn't a pattern.

True. He was definitely not my type. He's tall. He checks all the box off. He's tall. Yeah. That's one box ticked for you. But he was not my type. Yeah. No, I think he is. He's outgoing. He's not outgoing. Is he? Well, there's different types of outgoing. Like that he would talk to people. Yeah, that wasn't my type. Like the outgoingness wasn't my type.

Yeah, but he just makes friends with everyone. Yeah. Like when you talk to him, you know you'll like him. Yeah. Yeah, but they're both tall. Oh, okay. I know, I know. They both have a very sharp jawline. Yeah. In terms of body type, yeah, you don't have the type. Skinny as fuck. Strong as fuck. So, opposite.

So it was just our topics were just everywhere. Yeah. It was not cohesive at all. Yeah. Yeah. This might be a useless episode. That's okay. It's good to talk anyways. Yeah. I don't have COVID. I was coughing because I choked on my saliva. It's okay. COVID won't transmit through Zoom.

I don't care if you have COVID. I probably survived it. Yeah. Is there anything else you want to talk about? I don't know. What do you need to connect the dots? I feel like it's everywhere. Yep, it is everywhere. Yeah.

It's okay. That means this episode probably won't see the lights update. Are you sad? No, I'm not sad. I'm not sad that it doesn't see the light update, but I'm just, it's just funny because it's so over the place.

Was all your podcasts like this all over the place? The one I talked to with my crush, it was all over the place and I figured it couldn't be edited. But one of my former guests, we were chatting on Clubhouse and he was like, I want to listen to it. I was like, if you want to listen to it, you have to edit it. And he's like, okay, I'll edit it. And then he edited it.

But I edited another round afterwards. Wow. Do you only do the same for this one? I don't know how to edit. It's super easy. Just cut out the parts you don't want. I can assure you that I'm going to be very bad at it. That's okay. As long as you have an interest. But it sounds like you don't. Yeah. I don't. I can't edit shit. And also, I don't like to hear myself. So...

You have a nice voice. Really? Wow, thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Same for you. Thank you. I know. No shame. Do you not know you have a nice voice? No, I think my voice is pretty annoying. Okay, now you know. Yeah, now I know my voice is annoying in my head.

Yeah, you have been, you have received confirmation from me, which is a lot. Which means a lot. Okay, then thank you for talking with me on podcast. Still doing outro. Yeah, good luck with your stuff, with your work.

Yeah. Good luck with getting rich from podcasting. Thank you. Bye. Okay, bye. That's it for today's episode. Subscribe to my show on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can follow my Instagram account at T-E-N-L-B underscore P-O-D-S. This is where I post cover arts for my new episodes.

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See you next week. Or if you don't speak Mandarin, see you whenever my next English episode drops. Bye.