Chelsea pile more pressure on Ange & Spurs | How can Arsenal stop Real Madrid without Gabriel?
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Welcome to Back Pages, bringing you everything you need to know about the biggest sports stories making the headlines in the morning's newspapers. I'm Dave Rees and joining me are The Guardian's Jonathan Liu and The Times' Charlotte Dunker. Welcome to you both. Jonathan, let's start with you. I mean, Ange Postacoglu, it's not the first time that he's criticised VAR and technology that's in the game at the moment. Did they get to the right decision eventually this evening, unlike last night?

Yeah, I mean, obviously it's a foul. It's a very clear foul by Pat Matasar. I don't know why they took so long to reach that decision. Spurs also arguably got, you know, they got a little bit lucky with the Caicedo goal earlier in the game, which is a very, very marginal offside, which they spent, you know, almost as long looking at. These things are, you know, I think it's very valid to take a view against VAR. I think, you know, a lot of fans would just like it gone from the game because of,

the complications and just the sterilization of it. But I think you have to assess the thing in the round. You can't simply accept the decisions that go for you and complain about the ones that go against you. That was a very clear decision for me. And I think it speaks to a...

He looks slightly exasperated. Fair to say, on the strength of that clip, he looks a little bit prickly. He looks like a guy very much at the end of his tether. And given the way Spurs' season has gone, the reports into Spurs looking at other managers potentially to replace him, he may well be a guy at the end of his rope as well.

And Charlotte, the Daily Telegraph talking about the Spurs row as well, involving the fans and jeering substitutions. There are also chances of you don't know what you're doing towards Ange Postakoglu this evening. How damaging is the result against Chelsea for Ange Postakoglu's future?

I think it's probably more the manner of the result rather than the result itself, because if they're being honest, Spurs tonight were lucky to lose by just one goal. Chelsea were by far and away the better team. I think the manner of the performance from Tottenham was really disappointing. All the focus before the game, like when the team news dropped, was finally they're getting close to having their best XI back. There's been a lot of mitigating factors for Tottenham's season in terms of how bad it's been offensively.

Because of all the injuries they've got. But you look at the starting XI that started tonight, Romero and Van der Veen back. There was so much positivity around it. They've obviously got that Europa League game, which is absolutely huge for them next week. So I think there was hope that a positive performance, maybe even narrow defeat, would give them confidence going into that

game next week but the performance was so disappointing they were so poor they offered very little going forward obviously Saar scored that speculative goal that was then ruled out and Son had a chance didn't he very late on but apart from that they didn't really seem to click they didn't really seem to have a plan and I think maybe that's why the Tottenham fans were so annoyed and that little cupping of his ear after Saar had scored and then it got ruled out for VAR seemed to backfire on Postacoglu as well

Yeah, and look, I mean, Ange Postacoglu is struggling at the moment, Jonathan, and Daniel Levy has history of pushing that big red button in his office days before big games. I'm thinking back to Jose Mourinho and the Carabao Cup final. Now, there's a huge game next week. I wonder what the outstanding candidates that Ange Postacoglu referenced this week in his news conference made of that performance tonight. And what do you think Daniel Levy would have made of that performance tonight ahead of a huge week for them?

I think if you are going to push that big red button, you don't do on that performance. You know, I think you take a longer view. Chelsea are a better side, a better resourced side. They have 220 million pounds of central midfielder. That is not, you know, that is not a disgraceful result by any means. It's,

It's basically what's gone before. I think there's a narrative that has been allowed to grow that it's the injuries. It's just the injuries that killed Tottenham's season. And if you watch the individual games, if you watch the goals they conceded, the results that went against them, it's because...

As well as the injuries, really well-credentialed international players made really stupid decisions. And they threw away games in 10-15 minute spells of madness because they are run on a regime of mad cult vibes by a guy whose one tactic is basically to say "run harder" and "want it more" and "believe harder".

That's the reason why they're in this position. I don't think you get rid of him now. I don't think you push that button now. I think you have to give him the two untracked Frankfurt games. I think Bayern Munich, if you look at Bayern Munich with Tuchel last season, they pushed the button early and I think they ended up regretting it. They ended up asking him to stay because you go on a short-term sentiment and you make a decision that is perhaps too hasty when...

there are still prizes to be fought for. I think there is a case for a change in the summer. I think that's a decision that needs to be made with time and space and a little bit of consideration. I don't think there's a single problem with this Spurs team right now that is demanding the immediate instalment of Ryan Mason. I don't think that's a problem that Spurs need to solve with Ryan Mason right now. And what about Chelsea in all this, Charlotte, as well?

What did their performance say about them and where they're going as a team? They found things a little bit awkward, I guess, at home in front of the home supporters who perhaps want them to attack with a little bit more verve, a little bit more pace and invention. What does that performance say about them and their hopes for Champions League football next season?

Yeah, I think we'd seen them stagnate a bit before the international break. So for them to come back with that performance as well, I thought they were actually really impressive. And obviously Manchester City's win last night against Leicester's put the pressure back on them to try and get back in the top four. And that's what they did. So they've got eight games now. It's in their hands and they've got some really big games. They've obviously got Newcastle to play only a couple of points behind them as well. Nottingham Forest who are above them. So the race for that top four is very much on, but they're

they're in the driving seat it's up to them so yeah Paul Palmer obviously having a rest he looked good he got that assist and like I said before they should have scored more than the one goal they were unlucky not to do that and overall their all-round performance was impressive and they're going to have to use that as a confidence boost they've obviously got Europe coming up as well if they can get through in that get to European semi-final albeit the conference league that should give them more confidence and that's what they're going to need to try and

find that early season form that has gone missing in the last few months under Maresca. They need to find that to push them through the last few weeks of the season to make sure they do secure the Champions League spot that they so desperately want.

And returning players as well for Chelsea, Jonathan. Cole Palmer tonight, he hadn't scored or assisted in his last seven Premier League appearances before tonight, but was involved in the winning goal this evening. Nicholas Jackson as well. How important are they to what Enzo Maresca wants to do and what Chelsea hope to achieve this season?

Yeah, I've read a lot of, you know, veiled criticism of Cole Palmer over the last few weeks. I think if you look at his underlying numbers, they were still very strong. He was still creating chances. He was still getting in good positions, getting shots away. And for whatever reason, you know, they weren't going in. This is the nature of a team like Chelsea, who are not a finished article yet, who don't have reliable 25-goal-a-season strikers who are going to put away chances reliably. And so, you know, I think...

The last few games, I think we've seen a little bit more modulation from them, a little bit more maturity. Certainly in defence, the way they've managed to control games without the ball, that is a real sign of progress, I think, in the second half of the season. They may not have been spectacular in the way that they have been a lot of the time in the first half of the season, but I think we're seeing actually a more mature Chelsea outfit emerging towards the end of the season.

Yeah, we'll see how that develops over the course of the next few weeks. Let's move on and talk a little bit about Arsenal, the sun and the mirror, talking about Gabriel's injury and how bad that looks for Arsenal and their running, particularly with the Champions League games against Real Madrid on the way. Charlotte, what about Arsenal at the back?

How damaging is Gabriel's injury for them and what does it mean for this game against Real Madrid? Is Mikel Arteta struggling to pick a defensive unit right now?

He's lost four defenders in a week, hasn't he? Calafiori, White, Timber and Gabriel all ruled out in the space of a few days. So, yeah, it's definitely a big blow for them. He's probably arguably been one of their, if not their best player this season. And he's so crucial to the success that they've had. They've got the second best defensive record in the league behind.

behind Liverpool, so for him to be ruled out now for the rest of the season is a huge blow. We obviously all expect Liverpool to lift the title, so it shouldn't be too much of a problem for them in the league, but it's the Champions League that you mentioned there, those massive games against Real Madrid, he's going to be a huge, huge miss. If you look at the percentages within the team that they win, I think it's 63.5% with him in the Premier League win rate, and it drops to just under 41% for the 22 games that

he hasn't been involved. So him and Saliba have got a brilliant partnership at the back. So to lose him for the rest of the season is a big, big blow. And especially for, like I said, for those games against Real Madrid that are coming up. And Jonathan, I mean, you can list off the Arsenal significant injuries this season. Odegaard, Saka, Jesus Havertz, Gabriel, now. If all those players had have been fit, I know it's a hypothetical question, but would they have challenged closer in this Premier League title race with Liverpool?

Yeah, I mean, no doubt. I think if you have Saka and Odegaard for a significant portion of the season, if you don't have a midfielder essentially as your number nine for a large part of the season, you know, it is very, very tempting to think what Arsenal could have achieved this season.

But injuries happen. This is part and parcel of football. I think there is still... I think the league is obviously gone. I think there is a chance to do something really special against Real Madrid in the Champions League. I know they're missing four defenders. I think Timber is almost, given his recent form, is almost as...

as big a loss for them as gabrielle given that we've given the way that you know madrid have that that threat on the left flank with vinicius and mbappe and it's a real test of arteta's coaching skills now not just to find solutions on on the pitch but i think he has to you know see this the last few weeks of the season as a real opportunity to do something special and to use this kind of adversity to bind them even tighter they have a real opportunity

Let's get to you, Charlotte. Let's talk a bit about most of the papers covering the PGMOL admitting the decision not to send off James Tarkovsky in Wednesday's Merseyside derby was wrong. Did the PGMOL have any other option but to come out and take this story on in the last 24 hours, given what happened at Anfield?

Oh, I mean, it was so obvious, wasn't it? Everyone watching it was so surprised that he wasn't shown a straight red card. So for them to come out, albeit it's not on the record, is it? It's off the record, but it's good that they have gone to Liverpool. Slott said himself, didn't he, that it's good that they've explained that the decision was wrong. And I'm sure Slott wouldn't have been as calm about the decision being wrong if Liverpool

have been on the wrong end of the result. Obviously, they ended up winning and it didn't hamper their chances at all. But I think we've seen a lot more transparency, which is what PGMOL are trying to do in terms of holding their hands up and owning their decisions when they get them wrong. Last night was a glaringly obvious error. As soon as everyone saw it, everyone expected him to be sent off. And for whatever reason, he wasn't. That decision wasn't overturned. So it's

Yeah, I think it was an obvious one that they did get wrong, but I think it goes to show the communication that's going on between the clubs now, not just between the clubs, but between fans and everyone and trying to be more transparent about how the decisions are made when they're wrong, what they do to rectify that in the future. And I think this is another example of maybe how we're going in the right direction in terms of the communication. But then we need to go back to why the decision was wrong in the first place and lessons need to be learned from that.

Arnaud Slott has said today that it's been an OK season for officiating in the Premier League this season. It's been acceptable. Would you agree with that, Jonathan? Yeah, I mean, I think if you look at BGML's statistic, they would say 95-96% of the decisions have been correct.

That's not what it feels like. And also, it's kind of immaterial, right? If you don't congratulate a pilot for landing 95% of his flights or flights, you don't congratulate a goalkeeper for only making mistakes in 5% of their games. There needs to be consequence. I think everyone agrees that mistakes can happen.

but there needs to be consequence. There needs to be consequences for making mistakes. If a goalkeeper like Leeds, like Elon Meslier, has been dropped for making mistakes. Paul Tierney, I think, is the fourth official. What is the consequence for that? It's fine admitting the mistake. It's fine admitting that it was the wrong decision. What are the consequences for that?

Where is the drive to improve officiating, improve the decision-making process, improve standards, improve the standards of referees if they need to be, buy better referees, train better referees. I think that's what people want to see. Until PGMLL, sorry, second time I've struggled with that, until they see referees as performance, as a part of the performance in the same way that players and coaches are, they're not going to regain the trust from fans and I think

the wider public that I think has been lost a little bit. I want to talk to you, Charlotte, about a story in The Telegraph and it concerns Leicester City. John Percy writes that Ruud van Nistelrooy has dropped Harry Winks from his Leicester City squad after the midfielder refused to compromise on a 100-mile commute. Now, I guess it's not unusual that players commute from distances to training grounds. Is it symptomatic of a manager who is struggling to instil discipline in his squad, a struggling squad?

Or is it simply that the players aren't having the manager?

I think if you read the piece, I think that's the crux of why they've had this argument is that Van Nistelrooy has asked him to do something and he said no, which is where the arguments come from. I don't think it was a problem with the previous managers in terms of the commute that he's got. I don't know if either of you two have been to Seagrave, Celeste's training ground, but I've had a tour around there and I don't think there are many people who would turn down a night there. It's like staying in a luxury five-star hotel. It's definitely got to be up there with one of the best

training grounds in the country but Harry Winks has got his own personal reasons for not moving to Leicester like I said it's not been a problem before so why would he change now and like you say things aren't going well at Leicester at all they're bound to get relegated to the championship sort of like clutching at straws

And if this is one of the reasons why Van Nistelrooy has chosen to have an argument with him, then it goes back to the discipline thing. I think it's more to do with he's asked him to do something, requested him to do something because he believes it would benefit the team. I think it said he had a training session in the afternoon and then won the following morning. So obviously the recovery of having to drive 100 miles is...

twice in that time isn't very good. So I think maybe it's to do with that and the discipline in the team and trying to get his point across and his authority for the final few games of the season where they try and salvage some hope. But let's be honest, we all know that they're going down.

It does seem that way, certainly. And The Times as well, carrying the story about the UK set to be hosting the 2035 Women's World Cup, still got to be ratified by FIFA, of course. Jonathan, I wonder what this says about the FA's relationship in particular with FIFA, given what's happened in previous World Cup bids. I'm thinking, I guess, particularly around the 2018 Men's World Cup bids.

What it says about, is this a renewal of the UK's relationship with football's world governing body? How do you see it? Well, I mean, you could say that this was the only way England were going to get a World Cup decision from FIFA after 06 and 2018. Just try being the only bidder, the only viable bidder. I think, you know, to an extent there has been a certain rapprochement. I think also if there was...

another bit from, I think Spain were reportedly interested. I think people would also consider that very carefully.

I don't think it necessarily signifies that England are kind of back in favour in the corridors of power. But it is going to be a great occasion. You know, England has embraced women's football to an extent that I think few other countries in the world have done. It's going to be like a great, it's going to be a great spectacle. It's going to be a great event. The stadia are ready. The fans are going to come from all over the world. So, yeah, I'm just going to be slightly, I'm going to be 50 when that happens, which is slightly alarming. But apart from that, looking forward to it.

Yeah, it's a long way off for now. You don't have to worry about that too much just yet. Charlotte, we saw what it did certainly for football supporters in England when the Lionesses won the European Championships. Would you hope for a similar, if not bigger, impact for a global tournament?

Yeah, it was massive, wasn't it, when they hosted the Euros and to see thousands and thousands of fans and it sparked a new generation of supporters. I think if you looked at even going down to grassroots level, the legacy that it's had, the impact that it had, the promotion for the sport across the whole country, like you say, bringing the World Cup here

can only help and they've got another 10 years to grow the sport as well so it's going to grow over the next decade so just think how big it's going to be when it gets here and the chance for thousands and thousands of young people now who aspire to be lionesses to be able to watch that competition on their own doorstep will be absolutely amazing Jonathan thanks very much also Charlotte thanks very much for your time on Back Pages tonight