Welcome to Backpages, bringing you everything you need to know about the biggest sports stories making the headlines in the morning's newspapers. I'm Dave Reid and joining me are the Mirror's chief football writer John Cross and Karl Anka of The Athletic. Welcome to you both.
We have the Mirror's chief football writer, John Cross, and Karl Anka of The Athletic, both with us on Back Pages tonight. Welcome once again to you both. Let's start with Kevin De Bruyne and this announcement that he is going to be leaving Manchester City after an incredible decade at the club, winning everything...
there is to win. And Pep Guardiola on the back of the mirror, John, said that he would like Kevin De Bruyne to stay until at least the end of the Club World Cup. If you were able just to sum up, it's quite a lot to sum up, but what has Kevin De Bruyne given to Manchester City? I just think he's been such a key part of the Guardiola era at Manchester City. When I think that City...
have established themselves really as the most entertaining, arguably the most successful in condensed period of time of the league. I think he's been an elegant player.
his record of assists and the way that he dominated games. I mean, listen, we are talking about a player that I would say last couple of years, clearly, for all the time, as it does for all of us, catches up and then basically not quite as effective injuries take their toll. But at his peak, De Bruyne was just an absolute midfield god. He dominated games. I do think for a period of time, he was unquestionably the best midfielder
player of his type in the Premier League, arguably the world. And I just think he just absolutely flowed. He was a beautiful, beautiful watch. I think he'll go down as one of the greatest, if not the greatest midfielder of his type and of that particular era. And he just took, in my view, Manchester City down.
to brand new heights. I've said so many times how much I admire City, how much I admire Guardiola as a coach. And I just feel as if De Bruyne facilitated that success and made it all happen and knitted it all together. A beautiful, beautiful player who will go down, I think, as a Premier League and Manchester City legend.
And Carl, I can see you nodding along there. A midfield god he's just been described as. Is that how you would see it as well? Absolutely. I think if you talk about the 30-plus years history of the Premier League, Kevin O'Brien is top three central midfielders of all time. I'm not going to tell you where he should be in that top three. I'm sure depending on your...
personal fandom, you can argue Keane, Vieira, Scholes, Lampard, Gerrard, but I think Kevin De Bruyne has to be top three at the very, very least. Some midfielders are facilitators, some midfielders are accelerants. De Bruyne is a very rare one who was both.
And in terms of a football player who dominated an area of the field, we know when Kevin De Bruyne was in that sort of right half space, his deliveries into the corridor of uncertainty are phenomenal. This is a football player who has, I want to say, 117 assists, more than a dozen major trophies at Manchester City. I'm a Manchester United reporter, so I hope he has a dreadful game on Sunday. LAUGHTER
But now he's leaving, I can be a little bit more honest about how fantastic a football player he was, because he truly was, truly is, a phenomenal football player. And I mean this as a compliment, I'm going to be very glad when he leaves. Well, we'll talk a little bit more about the Manchester derby that is coming up a little bit later on in the programme. Jason Burt in The Telegraph in the morning's newspapers tells a story about how not only...
Did De Bruyne win titles? But he saved the Premier League. He tells a story about what was happening during the COVID-19 pandemic and how Kevin De Bruyne's voice was a persuasive one in the talks about getting the Premier League back playing football. So not only does he do his talking on the pitch, but also off it as well, seemingly. And we're talking about a Mount Rushmore, Jason Burt talks about, of midfielders in the Premier League. I mean, John,
John, we're going to be on in public houses up and down the country this evening and everyone's going to be having the same debate. Kevin De Bruyne, is he in your Premier League all-time XI? Does he get into yours, I assume, by what you've said he does? Oh, absolutely. He's in my XI all day, every day, twice on Sunday. I mean, absolutely brilliant player. I guess the sort of kind of more acute debate is where he fits in.
as that midfielder of his type, as I say, you know, is he the greatest midfielder, the greatest midfield creator? I mean, I almost think you have to part Roy Keane and Patrick Vieira as kind of the defensive ones, if you like. But then where does he fit with the likes of Gerrard, you know, Lampard,
who was such a key figure for Chelsea and Jose Mourinho's success there. And Manchester United, who just had reams and reams of them. We can't really include the Premier League's all-time assist maker, can we, Ryan Giggs? Because he's a winger, 162. De Bruyne, as Carl was pointing out, 118 second place.
I mean, that's phenomenal figures when you consider it is a 10-year period and he's missed time, you know, through injury. But it is almost condensed, you know, sort of kind of period. And what he's achieved, I just think, makes him certainly in that conversation. I just think he's an absolute wonderful, wonderful player.
I think I would probably plump for him, actually, you know, as that midfielder of his type, if you like, as that creator, that driver, you know, sort of absolutely fantastic the way that he drives through midfield. I really like the way that this has been handled as well, by the way, because I think it's so easy to go and sort of kind of, you know, have...
questions the next few weeks about is he going to stay, is he going to go, who's going to sign him, that sort of thing. But by doing it this way, he gets an incredible reception from Manchester City fans. They're kind of non-direct rivals as well, if you like. I'm sure we'll give him great ovations wherever he plays because, let's be honest here, a lot of people appreciate him. And that feel-good energy
might just lift City to decent results because they need results to get in the top five, you know, presuming that that will be enough to get you into the Champions League next season. And they really need that lift. And I think that positivity might just carry them there. And if he finishes by leading City into the Champions League, winning the FA Cup and going a long way in the Club World Cup, what a farewell that will be.
And listen, John, we can't talk about Kevin De Bruyne without going back in time a little bit to 2015. And listen, the Mirror weren't the only ones that perhaps were a little bit bemused by the fee. I know Paul Merson and Phil Thompson have had their say at the time as well. But the £60 million rejects, and look, I know you don't write the headlines, but how wrong was that? LAUGHTER
Well, it wasn't wrong at the time, was it? But basically, it was, yeah, I don't write a headline, but I'm going to take responsibility because I've sort of joined bylined on it. But De Bruyne, this is the point about it, basically. And it always pops up. And Kevin De Bruyne has even retweeted it down the years and sort of poked fun at it. And listen, if we can't laugh at ourselves, and I love a laugh,
Trust me. Then basically, what is the world coming to? And you kind of got to take responsibility. I actually offered this up. I should say Carl will be my witness there. There's a bit of a giggle in the WhatsApp group earlier. So, you know, I was fully embraced and sort of ready for it. But look, he went to Chelsea. He had a couple of years at Chelsea, one of which was out on loan at Wolfsburg.
and it just didn't work for him. And then basically he was robbed at sort of kind of a mediocre price. Yeah, I mean, look, I don't think Mourinho particularly rated him. I think that De Bruyne was very impatient and basically, you know, didn't want to hang around sort of fighting for his place, but he didn't get that opportunity. And then he was sold.
for about 18 million quid. And then, you know, a year later, he was bought by Manchester City for getting on for a British record fee, would you believe, a couple of weeks later after City had signed Raheem Sterling from Liverpool for 49 million pounds.
And they went on a spree that summer. But De Bruyne was the eye-catching one because he'd been in the Premier League previously and it hadn't worked. But I mean, listen, that is credit to City's scouting and then De Bruyne's brilliance to actually prove a point and show everyone, including Jose Mourinho and Chelsea, that they got it wrong.
And listen, full credit to you, John, as well, for putting that forward for us to go back to the archives for that. So thank you very much. We promised to talk about the Manchester derby. Let's do that now. The son, Carl, carrying a story in the paper about Garnaccio's future, selling his house. But I think you'd probably sell your gaffer a victory in the Manchester derby, wouldn't you, Carl? Yeah, go on then. LAUGHTER
How are you feeling ahead of this game? Because it's been a difficult... It's almost these matches, Manchester City usually at this point in the season are running away with the title and Manchester United are kind of chasing their tails. But both sides at this point in the season now, struggling. Yeah, yeah. This is a Manchester derby where bragging rights are perhaps more important. Not because they're both in a race for silverware, but because bragging rights are what little we have left, shall we say.
Ruben Amrin, I wasn't in the room for the press conference at Carrington today, but Ruben Amrin was interesting in his description of Alejandro Garnaccio today.
he's simply saying he's a good football player and talked about his ability to get into good attacking positions but also talked about ways he needs to improve which has been a running theme for Alejandro Garnaccio throughout his Man United career managers saying this is a player who has talent and absolutely is very very exciting if you're a Man United fan when the ball gets to Garnaccio's feet you sort of get out you see and go ooh what can this gentleman do but
But he's still quite young. His decision-making in the final third, it can be erratic. His ability to get separation between himself and the full-back can be erratic. There are times where he cuts inside, shoots, and it goes into the bottom corner or top corner. It's phenomenal the times he cuts inside and shoots and it goes into row Z. I think Amarin has spoken about this need for consistency. I cannot speak to the veracity of him trying to sell his house.
Not too long ago, we were talking about how Trent Alexander-Arnold had secured the rights to build a paddle court on his house and that apparently was going to be a sign that he was going to stay at Liverpool rather than go to Real Madrid. So what the estate agents do and what the football players and the contract makers do are two different things.
And Ruben Amrim has been quoted in his news conference today, Carl as well, saying he is in a hurry to get things right at Manchester United. He's been in charge now for five months. What have you seen that he's got right in this opening period of his managerial reign?
Well, he's a very charming talker in the press conferences. I'll give him that. He's an honest, honest talker in the press conferences. And I'm sure John will attest to that. If you give him a question, he actively listens and he doesn't give you a boilerplate answer, which is great if you need copy. We know about his fondness for the 3-4-3. We know that he's not going to deviate from this 3-4-3, which clarifies what Manchester United want to do and what sort of process they'll have to do between now and 2028.
If they want to be a successful team with him in charge, they're going to need to buy wingbacks. They're probably going to need to buy a centre forward. They're probably most definitely going to need to buy more athletic central midfielders. Can Manchester United do that in the two to three transfer windows under Benamrid when they have all this PSR, FFP considerations and not too much money in the bank?
I don't know, I'm pulling a face, various things to that consideration. I will say he had done very good work in encouraging Ahmad Diallo to be a phenomenal attacking football player in a way that Eric Den Haag didn't find a way to do earlier this season. John, what do you make of Ruben Amr in these last five months? I like him, Carl, I really do. I think he's...
Yeah, he's always got something to say. I've got to say that I did think he'd make more of an impression. I do feel that one of his weaknesses is that formation. Should he be more flexible? Because if you haven't got the players to play that system, can you really make it work? That would be the failing. I look at the results and I just can't get my head around some of the results and the inconsistencies. But I
I have seen enough to make me believe that given time and crucially some transfer windows, that this is a guy that I believe has got the potential to get United on a long-term path to success. But anyone that thinks next season they're going to rock up and be title challengers is just fooling themselves. All you can expect next season is signs of improvement. And at the moment, there haven't been enough
But I do think there's, I feel as if there's been enough from Ameren as a character, as a personality, as a ruthless manager to make us believe that actually in the long term, those improvements will come over time. We're going to talk about Liverpool now because Jamie Carragher's column has been released in The Telegraph and he's talking about a summer rebuild at Liverpool, saying rivals be warned, Liverpool ready to become even better. He says that Liverpool may well need to make some
Six summer signings, depending on what happens to the out-of-contract stars this summer. He talks about a centre-back, a left-back, a defensive midfielder, an attacking midfielder, a left winger and a striker as well. John, can you see a rebuild coming for Liverpool this summer, even if they win the title? Well, yeah, I can. I always think that the best title-winning teams...
generally build on their success and get even stronger. And so basically, I always think the best time to blend new players in is into a successful winning team because it's so much easier to find your feet and so on. What I would say, in fairness to Jamie, I'm a huge fan of Jamie. I think he's an excellent pundit, both on the TV and his reads in The Telegraph are excellent, unmissable.
The point about the six players is kind of almost halfway down the copy. I'm not saying he's buried the line. Please don't get me wrong. But it's not the thrust of it. But basically, he's sort of saying that this Liverpool team to go again, they'll have to cope with kind of a bit of a rebuild. But I do think he...
I mean, Jamie, how sensitive he is sometimes. I'm sure he probably will be slightly alarmed sometimes if we're suddenly saying, oh, they need six, you know, for next season to be successful again. I mean, blimey, they've blown absolutely everybody away this season, but they could lose, you know, arguably, they could lose three key players here. And so then they probably would need six.
I think we're probably thinking that Trent Alexander-Arnold go to Real Madrid. The other two might stay, who knows, but they still haven't secured them yet. But they have been so much better than everyone else. And yet I do feel as if he picks on a point here. Surely they'll probably sign another left back. Andy Robson's been fabulous for them, but probably needs a new level of competition.
I do wonder whether then kind of, you know, they strengthen the midfield again. Do they need a new structure up front in terms of maybe they'll offload Nunes and get a centre forward in? But I tell you what, it should frighten the rest of the Premier League if Liverpool do buy well and they sort of kind of have to replace and replace with great quality because they've been streets ahead of everyone else. They've embarrassed some of their title rivals.
Arne Slott has been absolutely magnificent in what he's done in that squad rotation and squad management. So he really knows what he's doing. And I tell you what, if they strengthen significantly this summer, as Jamie is suggesting, then wow, there'll be an even more awesome threat next season, I think. Jamie is as passionate as they come, I'm sure he'll say, about Liverpool. And Jamie says, we're watching a very good Liverpool team on the brink of greatness. Now, there's been some really great Liverpool sides recently.
down the years. Does this side feel to you that it is on the brink of doing something special? Perhaps. This is a good Liverpool team. I don't think this is as great in the same way that Jurgen Klopp's 19-20 team was. I also don't think it is great in the same way that some of Jurgen Klopp's losing teams were because, I mean, if it wasn't for John Stone's intervention when the ball was an inch over the line, well, an inch more, City would have won a title and I think Jurgen Klopp's
team from 21-22 is also fantastic look we know this Liverpool team is good we know that this Liverpool team is able to hit a higher gear in a way that Arsenal have not been able to in a way that Manchester City has not been able to we also know as John has so eloquently outlined this Liverpool team needs some surgery if they're going to go back to back but that's been well known for a while now we know
that Liverpool have been in the market for a number six for quite some time. They made a bid for Moises Caicedo when he was at Brighton for more than 100 million. They made a bid for Romeo Lavia. Both of those players went to Chelsea. We know they perhaps had a conversation with Zubamendi at Real Sociedad, but he's not there. It's due to the brilliance of Arna Slot
in realising that Ryan Gravenberg can be retrofitted into a number six after his excerpts as a number 10 or as a number eight at Ajax and Bayern Munich. That's been exceptional. However, like John has said, they definitely need an upgrade at left-back. Andrew Robertson has maybe won two seasons too far. They're going to need to do something at right-back because Trent Alexander-Arnold is likely to depart.
what happens with Mohamed Salah, you're probably going to have to do some work on your entire right flank. Because while I think Conor Bradley is brilliant, you need to figure out how that side is going to work. And if you're going to get someone in that left back, you're probably going to need to have a look at who's going to be playing on a left wing as well. Because Luis Diaz is perhaps not the football player he used to be after a knee injury. We've talked about Darwin Nunez. We've talked about Diogo Jotaro as well. There is absolutely scope for Liverpool to go out there, sign six football players in this summer. However, dot, dot, dot, dot,
When have you ever seen a top Premier League team by six brand new top tier football players in a summer window? I think what's more likely to happen is you're going to see three-ish players
Brand new starting line-up players. And then you slowly, slowly begin to gradual change as it goes from being a Klopp squad to an Arna Slot squad. Yeah, and it will certainly depend on who departs the club this summer as well. And I absolutely want to point you in the direction of an interview done with Jason Tindall, Eddie Howell's assistant at Newcastle by Luke Edwards, a Northern football writer at The Telegraph. Now, Jason Tindall almost has his own persona at Newcastle. The Newcastle fans obviously love him.
opposing fans, maybe opposing managers can find him a little bit antagonistic, potentially on the touchline. But it's a great interview with Jason Tindall. He says, I don't care if I'm upsetting people along the way. People will probably judge the way I look, what I wear and how I behave. None of this is new to me. I don't give a, insert your own word there, what people think and what people say because I'm confident in my own skin. I'm confident in what I do. If you don't know me, what you think doesn't matter in the slightest. I wonder, John, whether...
The persona that he has actually takes a little bit of the distraction away from how good a coach he is at Newcastle and how much Eddie Howe relies on him. Yeah, I think you've hit on a really good point there. I mean, I'll tell you what, it's a terrific read, as you say. I really, really like it. Luke Edwards is one of the most passionate guys around. You know, I'll tell you what, he's probably putting for bat on this about the amount of times that he tweets about it.
About Jason Tindall, really. I think there's kind of a bit of a man crush going on there. He really, really likes him. And listen, we're probably guilty, you know, of basically talking about Jason Tindall in the media as such. We really do highlight this guy. Listen, he is in your face and he is sort of kind of very noticeable on the touchline, you know, kind of this kind of almost permatan and, you know, sort of always being there. And sometimes you could see that sort of kind of Eddie Howe looks across at his number two and goes...
oh, what's he doing now? You know, and kind of just getting on with it. But I really, really like it. I think it's great. He details how, you know, the headline says there, you know, we're not mates. This is a marriage. It's a football marriage. We're 17 years together. We have this understanding. And Tyndall, don't forget, had a year, sort of, didn't he? Sort of kind of managing Bournemouth. So, you know, which didn't quite, you know, go his way really. And here they are back together. And they're absolutely brilliantly linked.
I think they're a great, formidable duo and I think they're a terrific partnership. And it's really nice, I think, to kind of understand where Tyndall's coming from. Absolutely. Newcastle are the Monday night football away at Leicester, live on Sky Sports as well. Carl and John, thank you very much for your time here on Back Pages tonight.