Ratcliffe: Some players are overpaid and not good enough | Newcastle win to go level with City | Liverpool need to be at best to beat PSG
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Welcome to Back Pages, bringing you everything you need to know about the biggest sports stories making the headlines in the morning's newspapers. I'm Dave Fulton and joining me are Jason Burt from The Telegraph and Miga Villani from The Independent. Welcome to you both.

it's only one place to start and that is with sir jim ratcliffe who has spoken to a number of media outlets in the wake of manchester united fans protesting against the glazers before the one-all draw with arsenal on sunday ratcliffe has discussed a number of topics including the clubs of finances his regret over giving eric tenhagen new contract last summer before sacking him some of the players not being good enough and overpaid as well as backing the

the current head coach, Ruben Amrim. Let's start then with Jason's paper, The Telegraph, and Ratcliffe Jason saying the club would have been bust by Christmas. That is some admission.

Yeah, it's quite a startling headline. My colleague Sam Wallace was one of the people who went to see Sir Jim today and sat down with him and obviously he was very candid and spoke on a wide-ranging number of topics and tried to explain the situation at Manchester United. I mean, first of all, I'd say fair play to him for doing this. We spend an awful lot of time criticising clubs and club owners for not talking, trying to explain situations. Fans obviously do so as well, rightly so. They get a lot of

Misinformation and lack of information coming from the clubs and a lot of silences and obviously part of the protest yesterday at Old Trafford was to do with that frustration.

However, he's laid it out absolutely starkly in terms of the financials that he's inherited at Manchester United and the possibility that they're actually going to run out of cash. And that's an incredible thing to say for a club that is effectively a cash cow. This cash cow has been milked dry over the last decade through mismanagement, through bad running of the football club, through some terrible mistakes that have been made, huge amounts of overspending, and there's been a day of reckoning coming.

From that point of view, I understand where Sir Jim is coming from. I understand what he's saying. I think he's good. He's laid it out. However, there is a huge context within this. And he talks in the piece about you don't be wanting to go to the banks to renegotiate the debt. You don't want to be talking to insolvency practitioners. And obviously,

That's correct. But Manchester United have spent a billion pounds in the last 20 years just servicing debt, and the debt that obviously the Grazers put on the club to buy the club in the first place. And that remains the elephant in the room. And I understand from...

Rackless point of view that he can't be criticised and the Glazers because they still effectively own the club. He runs it as a minority shareholder. But that's the real story here. Eventually, something has to happen around that situation. We talk about the money that's going out of the club, the horrendous mistakes that have been made, the overspending, the fees that have been paid, the wages that have been paid, and even some of the things around the redundancies. Manchester United, you know, 450 people being made.

but they were employing far more people than any other football club in a hard-headed business sense. All of the things he's saying add up, but obviously the big issue is how can this club that has generated so much cash, that is a cash machine, effectively, is running out of cash or has been running out of cash? And that's the real appalling indictment of previous regimes and managements and obviously Ed Woodward and...

Richard Arnold and various other people have an awful lot to account for in terms of what the running of Manchester United in the last decade. And Jim has obviously explained that situation. But he has also been party to it himself. Some of the mistakes he's made in the last year, he talks about those. So he's almost compounded it in a sense in the way he's been behaving. So it's very grim reading for Manchester United fans and for football in general, where a club like Manchester United has got itself in such a powerless financial state.

Yeah, I mean, Miguel, in the mail it says, bust by Christmas. Your thoughts on this, but just picking up on Jason's point there, you know, this has been 20 years in the making, this financial trouble, and to some extent Sir Jim Ratcliffe kind of gets away with it because he's inherited a lot of this mess.

Yeah, I mean, it's a line and a headline, a really eye-catching headline, but certainly it makes a lot of unpopular decisions and decisions that have brought a lot of criticism more palatable, because even those who've been most critical would suddenly go, oh, if that's the context, then that criticism will be weathered.

I'm not an accountant. I'd be interested in, say, the analysis of people like Kieran O'Connor at Swiss Ramble in terms of what they think of the figures. But, yeah, it's an eye-catching headline that suddenly weathers some of the criticism about these decisions. And yet Jason's absolutely right to point to the actual context here that I suppose Ratcliffe doesn't and can't really go into that much about the interest payments from the Glazers. And there is a bigger point to be made there as well because, of course, it's not just about the...

the interest paid. And this is something that really should always be brought up in this situation. It's that, I mean, in 2005, exactly 20 years ago, when the Glazers were gearing up for their leveraged buyout, this was one of the most profitable clubs in Europe. It hadn't...

had debt since the 1930s. And in the same week or in the same day that we're talking about the independent football regulator and how that came from issues like the Super League, like Bury, I mean, the trajectory of one or the financial trajectory of one of England's

really what are European football's greatest institutions, to come to that, that should be as big a discussion as part of this as anything else. And, I mean, it really should provoke questions in football about how this happens. And also, I suppose, again, to return to this issue, that the regulator at present won't go into too much about ownership or being proactive about ownership. Because, I mean, what's happened here? One of the most profitable clubs...

in Europe, a true social institution in that sense, was allowed to be bought out, A, through, I think, what would be described as one of the most cynically capitalist mechanisms, and one that the Premier League has now put a limit on, where you can't do a leveraged buyout to that degree, and it's one generally not allowed in American sports.

And secondly, from, I suppose, two parties and the two kind of co-owners, that will be of a very particular political ideology. I mean, all of these quotes, I mentioned this on the show a few weeks ago, but all these quotes, they are consistent with Ratcliffe's business approach. I mean, in his book, which is co-written called The Alchemists, you know, he really almost takes pride in smashing the power of the unions at one of his companies, the oil refinery in Scotland, or the refinery in Scotland.

and it's again yeah to reiterate the point it should provoke as much discussion as anything else in football right now and it is you could almost say it's an English football tragedy really

Yeah, I mean, he says that most profitable club in the world, he wants them to be in three years. That's a pretty kind of swift turnaround, given the club is in this kind of parlous state. But I want to move on, Jason, to his comments on Ruben Amorim. The Times say that, Ratcliffe says, Ruben isn't perfect, but he's our guy. Are you surprised just how strongly he's come out in support of Ruben Amorim, given where they are in the table?

No, not at all. I think he has to be. I think anything short of that would have been, you know, let all sorts of theories run in terms of whether Amorim was on borrowed time and whether Amorim was going to be facing the sack. I mean, they've invested an awful lot in, first of all, sacking Eric Ten Hag and then bringing in Rumin Amorim. They have to back him. There's no question about that. They have to give him...

multiple transfer windows to try and sort this out because of the type of manager he is. They've brought in a manager who is working with a group of players who are not suited to his style. They've made that decision, they've gone down that road, they've chosen that manager, they have to invest in him both on and off the pitch and give him the backing that he obviously needs as a young manager coming into the Premier League and in a very difficult situation.

What's fascinating is he talks about how difficult it is for Amarum to take over mid-season. Well, that was Manchester United's choice. That was the draft of his choice. He decided to hire at that time. He talks about the difficulties he faces in terms of the squad and how...

he's missing some of the highest earning players through injury. Well, that's not necessarily also true. Some of those players have been sent out on loan. Again, that was Manchester United and Ruben Amarou's choice. It's just interesting how you decide to argue these things. You know, you look at it and think, oh, yeah, that's fair enough. He makes a very good point there about the high earners. But,

Marcus Rashford is one of those highest earners. He's been sent out on loan. That was Manchester United's decision. Before, obviously, Ruben Amarant, Jadon Sancho, that was Manchester United's decision. Anthony's gone out on loan. That was Manchester United's decision. So some of the explanations he gave don't quite hold water, to be fair, but he absolutely has to back

room in Amarim. He has to give him the support. He talks about how he speaks on a regular basis and how Jason Wilcox, the technical director, speaks to him two or three times a day. That needs to happen. If they're going to make this work at Manchester United and give him the support he needs, then that needs to happen. And I think it's welcome from Amarim's point of view that Dirac Cliff has said this because questions were starting to be asked about his own future.

And also how much he was actually enjoying the job. I mean, he seems to be somebody who's found it very much of a struggle. You know, he's talked very honestly and very openly, but at times he's almost like felt quite downbeat and almost like he doesn't want to be there himself. So hopefully this in terms of his own future and what that might do in terms of his own confidence and ability to do the job, hopefully that will be the support he needs.

Yeah, so Jim getting plenty of backing to Ruben Amorim, Miguel, not so much to the players. I mean, the back of the sun says overpaid and not good enough. That's on several papers, a mirror as well. And he name checks a few, doesn't he? The likes of Sancho and Jason just mentioned out on loan, Anthony out on loan. The amount of money they cost, I think he says, yeah, not good enough. And they're paid too much money. Pretty scathing.

I have to say, I mean, I almost found this the most stunning part of it. Not least because he's going to be actively trying to sell some of these players. And obviously, at times this season, I suppose this kind of feeds into the previous point we've just made about Amram. At times this season, there's maybe been actually a bit of shock at how open and blunt Amram has been with certain comments. He's talked about individual players like Marcus Rashford. Well, now you can see why. Because, I mean...

Ratcliffe evidently doesn't have an issue with it. And he's... And Amarim's ultimate boss has gone even stronger. I mean, as he was going through the names, given those two descriptions, it's hard not to wonder who he sees in which camp, given he willingly offered up the names himself. But I suppose it does, again, kind of maybe reframe this season a bit, and particularly maybe what Amarim has said and his own mood, in that it does feel as if he's been given licence to just see this as an absolute...

kind of a blank slate. They are looking at it, maybe even to a more extreme degree, say, than Arsenal did around 2020-21. And it's almost like, I think, what they call in American sports a fallow year, just to kind of, you know, you've got to accept the squad as it is and make hard decisions to rebuild. And in that context, I think,

he is right that suddenly United's position doesn't look maybe as concerning as people otherwise would because they don't evidently see this squad as the future, as they've made very, very clear in a more kind of stronger way than I've ever really seen, I have to say. Yeah, it's a good point, Jason, that Miguel makes. I mean, he might want to be trying to sell some of these players. You don't want to be kind of bagging them and then going into the marketplace and saying, please come and buy our players.

Yeah, I mean, the only thing I say about that is, you know, clubs and agents and players aren't stupid. I mean, you know, they'll know that they're not wanted at Manchester United. The big issue is just taking their contracts. Who's going to pay those contracts? That's the sitting on his contract. Jim Ratcliffe can say whatever he wants in terms of getting them out or, you know, being overpaid and so on and so forth. But he's got to do the deals to make them move on. That's the bottom line. Other clubs out there know the situation perfectly.

as you say, Miguel says, they'll come in in low ball. Manchester United's got to take the medicine. Basically, they're not going to sell high on these players. You know, that's just the situation they're in at the moment. They're going to make huge losses and they're just going to have to grin and bear it and get on with it if they're going to actually turn the squad around. Some of those players have to be paid off or they have to get the deals that's more favourable to them to get them out of the club. That's just the way it is. And,

I do think it's quite astonishing for a club owner to speak quite so frankly. I welcome it to a degree. I think sometimes you're going to have to call it as it is. And I think sometimes at Manchester United in particular, we've had periods of time where they've tried to make out things are better than they are. And this is a great squad and these players are moving forward. And you're looking at it and think the evidence isn't really necessarily there. It's been a little bit too cosy at times. So I think actually sort of, you know, being a bit more brutal around that isn't necessarily a bad thing if they're going to actually get to their end game and

You know, he's talked about winning the Premier League in three years' time, I think, or something like that. That seems like an incredible aim at the moment. So maybe they have to be a bit more brutal in trying to move some of these guys on. But, you know, as Miguel says and as you're touching upon, their agents and the players themselves are saying, look, you don't want me, you don't rate me, what are you going to do about getting rid of me? Yeah, Miguel, Jason welcomes this kind of candid interview from Sir Jim Ratcliffe. Just briefly, you're kind of summing up, is it a good PR exercise for him to come out and say what he said today?

Fundamentally, it's better that people talk about things. Obviously, within reason, you don't want people up all the time because that can create an element of farce. But fans, I mean, fans, they're beyond paying customers. They're people emotionally invested. It is right that it's not just the manager always up speaking, that actually people who make decisions occasionally explain themselves. And it's funny, I've even had, like, say...

People connected to some other clubs talking about how, well, this is much more transparency than they've got, including some of Manchester United's rivals. Let's go to the Guardian. Focus on the Monday night football. Gimerish strikes to see off Hammers. Jason, this is shaping up what could be a pretty special season for Newcastle. They're now level on points with fifth-placed Manchester City and they've got the small matter of a Carabao Cup final come Sunday.

Yeah, it felt like a huge win for them tonight, actually. It wasn't the greatest game, obviously, but they got the win and that's all that mattered in the end. And it was quite interesting listening to Bruno Goumeros talking afterwards and he was asked whether or not

The Carabao Cup final on Sunday has been a bit of a distraction. Normally you'd expect players to say, no, no, absolutely not. But he admitted it had actually been a bit of a distraction for the players. And maybe understandably so. It's been such a long time since Newcastle have won a trophy. They're back in a final again. They've obviously been suffering from quite a lot of injuries. And they were in danger of just slipping out of the reckoning a little bit in those Champions League places. But this is the win that puts them right back up there. And it will be a huge boost for them ahead of Sunday. I think there was a little bit of...

Not feeling sorry for themselves, but things that felt like things were possibly starting to conspire against them, you know, at this point in the season, as I say, with the injuries, with the suspension of Anthony Gordon and so on and so forth, and then playing Liverpool on Sunday. Maybe they felt they were up against it. This will give them a great boost going into that game. Not, as I say, a great game itself and a great performance tonight, but a great result that puts them right back in the Champions League reckoning, which is where they want to be, obviously.

Telegraph say Newcastle want to hire for Wembley. Miguel, I guess a lot of neutrals would be hoping that they can win the Carabao Cup on Sunday. Is that necessarily the case, given the ownership? Well, you know, just the fact they haven't won, I think, for a long time. You do see that brought up by a lot of rival fans, to be fair, who have snagged at them. But yeah, look, there's obviously a separate issue between the ownership and the actual history of the club.

and I suppose given Liverpool are top of the league and how many trophies they've won over the last few years and their history yeah there is a different dynamic in general though I suppose I think Jason's right there's been a bit of back and forth in Newcastle lately in terms of Premier League results in terms of performances

And also maybe just a slight sense that a bit of doubt and gloom was beginning to engulf so many injuries. So it's important to get that win ahead of it. And especially with the win delivered by a player like Guimaraes, who has been one of their bigger players, who's maybe suffered a little bit of inconsistency of late.

to produce the goal and suddenly they'll be going in a bit more prime especially with Liverpool and we'll see what happens on Tuesday night against Paris Saint-Germain but Liverpool have been a little bit not easy to get at but maybe a bit more vulnerable of late and I might just well tee up this League Cup final yeah

Yeah, I mean, Liverpool weren't great, were they, against Southampton, Jason? Certainly in the first half. I mean, they'll go into this final as big favourites, but you wouldn't write Newcastle off, given the passion of their fans and the quality of the likes of Isak up front. No, and that's absolutely right, especially with, as you say, Isak in the team. And this result tonight will give them a bit of a boost. And let's be honest, you know...

The Carabao Cup final means an awful lot more to Newcastle than it does to Liverpool. It's clearly the first trophy that Arnott Slott can win, so he'll definitely want to win that. Liverpool don't want to lose any final. They want to win all the trophies they can win, rightly so. But actually, in terms of priorities, it's reasonably far down the list in what they're going for this season. The Premier League obviously looks...

wrapped up. What will be interesting to see was what happens tomorrow night in this Champions League tie. If they get through that, they'll be well set up for Sunday. If they go out, will there be a hangover for Sunday and will that affect them going forward? So that'll be quite fascinating as to the momentum they take into the final on Sunday. But yeah, absolutely. You know, it will be a great atmosphere. You know, I take Miguel's point about ownership, but I lived in Newcastle. The owners

are allowed under the present rules. So I don't think we should be sort of saying the fans shouldn't be allowed to celebrate winning a cup final. And, you know, it would mean so much to Newcastle and their supporters if they did manage to finally win a trophy again. And, you know...

I'm neutral in this, but if you're asking me, I'd quite like them to win it. OK, let's focus on Liverpool then. You mentioned that tussle against PSG, Miguel. In the back of the mail, Arnaud Slot saying, I've not slept ahead of PSG test. And a week ago, they were given their toughest test of the season. They were thoroughly outplayed, managed to win it 1-0. It was a bit of a smash and grab. Just how difficult is it going to be at Anfield for them in this second leg?

Yeah, I was at the first leg as Jason was and I'm at the second leg tomorrow and it's been striking before the game, after the game and the time since. Slott has been so open about just how impressive he's found Paris Saint-Germain talking about how they just came at his team, how intense it was. I think he spoke today about how complete they are and I think they'll do exactly the same in this game. Paris Saint-Germain will come out with everything and it's interesting I suppose because we probably have an idea of how Liverpool will set up. We

We all know about a Champions League night at Anfield. Paris Saint-Germain have mentioned themselves. But the great variable is what is a relatively young Paris Saint-Germain team, especially compared to these star-laden projects of the past. And of course, the Qatari ownership have had their own aims there. But it's a younger team. I think maybe in the first leg, it was almost like because of that inexperience, they felt a certain doubt once they didn't get that early goal that began to affect them.

And I think Luis Enrique has to address that. I think it's why he's spoken so stridently before the game. And there's even been callbacks to say when he overturned a 4-0 for that 6-1 against the old Paris Saint-Germain. And I suppose what they're banking on is almost getting that first goal because that potentially changes everything.

Yeah, just thinking about the scoreline, because you think about those great nights at Anfield, Jason, that Miguel mentions. I remember that comeback against Barcelona a few years ago, you know, when the crowd is up and they've got to score goals and they've got to play on the front foot. One, there was that kind of dangerous scoreline, isn't it? And that if it is cagey and there are no goals early on, there's always that temptation to just sit back a little bit and defend what you've got.

I really don't think Liverpool will try and do that and I don't think the fans will allow them to do that. I've been to very many big European nights at Anfield and it doesn't really work like that. They're going to have to go for it and try and blitz

PSG to an extent. I know that's not necessarily Arnaud Slot's style, but he's going to have to get, I think, get ahead, get another goal and kill this tie as quickly as possible because Paris Saint-Germain are a very, very dangerous team. He actually called them the best team in Europe and look at the underlying statistics during the course of this season. So it's very, it's very fascinating how they're going to approach this. As you said,

But I do really feel that the occasion, the atmosphere, I think they've got to harness that. That's one of their best weapons. It probably is their best weapon, actually, in terms of taking on this very exciting young PSG team. And it will be a fascinating sort of game and how it unfolds and also what PSG, how they go about it. But I think Liverpool really have to get after them and try and get ahead and kill it off as quickly as possible.

Gentlemen, we have run out of time. Miguel, we couldn't get to your piece on the regulator, but that's maybe for another time. Thank you very much for your company, gentlemen. So that is that.