A nightmare week for Arteta & Arsenal
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The Athletic FC Podcast Network. The only way to score is, of course, to play with a handbrake off. Hello, I'm Ian Stone. This is Handbrake Off, the Arsenal podcast brought to you by The Athletic. Love you.

Last night, the Arsenal were knocked out of the FA Cup by Manchester United, losing on penalties to reflect on the game. And look at it at Spurs on Wednesday. Gulp. I'm joined by Amy Lawrence and Adrian Clarke. Good morning. Is it?

Morning. It actually says morning on the script. Jay, our producer, didn't put good, by the way, but I added good because, you know, the sun's out and another day, here we are. Amy hasn't even spoken. No, because I realise it inside my own head when you say good morning that I shouldn't really probably say the words that were in my head because it was just offensive.

Right. And not your fault. No, no, no, no, no. It's fair enough. But this is going to happen quite a bit that you don't. Maybe just do a bit of self-editing as we go, Amy, OK? Yes. Otherwise, you may be seeing unexpurgated Amy Lawrence this morning. And I'm not sure anybody wants to see that. Before we talk about the game, this white kit. Now, I...

First of all, let me say, obviously, No More Red is for a brilliant cause. It's a brilliant cause and we all support it. But this cut record we have, I mean, you'd attribute it to Spurs. Well, that's what happens when we look like them. Amy...

There's not a lot to say about it, aside from we seem to be s*** when we're playing it. Yeah, it's funny that, isn't it? Well, not funny, no, as it turns out. And if you are, if you are, would you just carry on and do it again and again and again and again? Or would you maybe have a look at it and think, is there something else that we should be doing instead? If this doesn't help, and I know it sounds mad, I'm not for one second. It does sound mad. It does, and I accept that and that's fine.

But I'm not suggesting that Arsenal lost because of the kit. However, I do think that in an industry of very, very fine margins, anything that disrupts any positive flow is something that needs to be assessed. I think that's a good point, actually. I genuinely do. I think that hand on heart, obviously the players and the manager and everybody like that,

support the initiative. But do they like the kit? Do they feel comfortable playing in it? I think back to Ian Wright and how he used to say that when he got ready to play, he wanted to look immaculate. He wanted to feel brilliant. He used to polish his own boots. He used to make sure his kit was just right. He wanted to stand in that tunnel and look alongside him to the person next to him and think, I feel brilliant. I look better than you. And it's a tiny thing.

Intangible. Details, isn't it? But I think they don't feel right. Obviously, for people with bad vision in the crowd, it's ridiculous that you can't tell who's who from their numbers. If there's not an alternative way of spreading this message from the entire Brains Trust within the organisation and Adidas, then that's a bit weird. Because I think there comes a point where you go, you know what, it's a lovely idea, but let's try and approach it in a different way.

I mean, why don't they play in an all-black kit? It just doesn't feel like Arsenal is particularly accentuated in a home game. Adrian, I actually got there about half a minute late, just for whatever reason. And when I came in...

I was a bit disconcerted, to be honest with you. When I walked in, I thought, what's going on? Who's who? I actually thought that for a minute. And then I realised, ah, I know what's going on. But that discomfort, what Amy's talking about there, it's only a marginal thing, but that's all it takes. Yeah, you feel, especially after the nonsense and the furor over the balls and whatnot, you don't want to be making excuses. It's not why we lost, but...

But yeah, I do think that, unfortunately, footballers are pretty superstitious as well and managers are.

I think Mikel is very particular as well about good luck and bad luck in vibes. Yeah, I don't know whether we will see it again, if I'm honest. I just think that... It's in the contract. Oh, is it really? Yeah, okay, I didn't know that. Well, we will then. Well, we will, but we're not making... There's almost no point in talking about it because if it's in the contract, how long does the contract last? Yeah, but you can change a contract. Yeah, I mean, I'm with you. I think if you want to do something else, you could wear a different colour kit. I do think wearing Spurs colours is...

It doesn't feel right, but it's more the unpopularity of it has become so large now that I think something probably does have to change for next year. So, yeah, let's see. I think when you're at a home game watching Arsenal in white taking penalties into an entire bank of visiting supporters, I just...

felt like, well, this is not, there was, it was like taking your idea of a home game and putting it through some kind of trippy, disastrous, like nightmare vision. So everything looked weird and wrong. It felt terrible. Just not right. And by the way, we're not making excuses. Of course we're not. We're just talking, uh, uh,

here. Arsenal won, Man Utd won. We lost 5-3 on the penalties. Yeah, Adrian, one of the worst weeks under Mikel. I mean, possibly the worst week, to be honest with you, because of the expectation. Obviously, we finished eighth and it's been way worse than this. You know, the COVID times when we were playing in an empty stadium and it was terrible. But in terms of the expectation and where we are,

And what we've got coming up, we've got Tottenham at home on Wednesday. We've got Villacat at home at the weekend. I mean, we are meant to be Vibes FC. The vibe is not good at the moment. No, it's not. No, we can't pretend otherwise. No, it's pretty miserable. It's been a really...

Really disappointing week. Yeah, I don't know where to start. All right, well, I'll tell you what. Why don't we look at specifics? Why don't we talk about the atmosphere, first of all, the vibes at the ground. There were a load of United fans there. I have to say, by the way, that I quite like the FA Cup when there's a lot of away fans. I actually do. I like the atmosphere in the ground. But they were the ones who were making all the noise last night. There were issues with the tickets.

We know there were a thousand empty seats in the upper tier for whatever reason. There was an issue with should we give them to key workers? Anyway, they were left empty. There were difficulties getting tickets. There were a lot of strange people around. No, I'm by that. I mean, there were a lot of strange people around. Name them. Name them. Come on. Name them.

There were a lot of United fans in the Arsenal section. Amy, I know you had a little chat with one or two after the game. There's been issues with the tickets. I couldn't sit in my regular seat for the Newcastle game either because it all happened over Christmas and there's something wrong with the website.

The club has been so good with the fans over the last few years. We've talked about the guys who stand in the clock end and the Ashburton Army and how accommodating the club have been. And yet now at this point, it seems like there's a disconnect. Yeah, I agree. I think the atmosphere, particularly for the last two cup games, has been unusual. And then you take the Ashburton Army situation where they obviously are normally in the clock end.

And when you have to give the clock in to away fans, they just get ditched. And rather than finding a block of 50 seats somewhere, which must be doable to at least have a focal point for some support to get things started, that just gets lost in the kind of, you know, organising the game. But they were terribly missed in these last two games. Cup games were maybe a little bit more...

kind of concerted group support from the crowd helps. Arsenal's always been the club that more relies on the players to lift the fans than the fans to lift the players. It's been the same for, you know, as long as I've been going. I don't know if you'd agree with that, Stoney. Overall, it's something that the players do that lifts the fans and then it all kind of gets to this great symbiotic crescendo and that's great. But it tends not to be that, like certain clubs where the fans sort of

see it as part of their role is to kickstart, you know, the energy. It's not Anfield or Celtic Park, is it? Yeah, exactly. You know, it's never been that. But it has been great. But also, it's been fun. You know, the last couple of seasons has been...

An absolute wave of emotion. It's been, everybody has believed in this team. That was Mikel's arguably greatest achievement since he rejoined the club, to make everyone believe again, to make everyone feel that they had a team that they love and believe in and, you know, feel utterly behind again. And something's going on at the moment where that has diluted.

The team is a bit, you know, they're struggling and they're playing a kind of football that is, it just feels inhibited and that makes it less fun. And that makes it just more difficult in general to get those vibes that you need, those winning vibes.

Adrian, the thing about that, Amy makes a number of good points. Sorry. No, no, no, no, no. As always. And we swirl around when we talk about this, when we talk on this podcast, and that's absolutely fine. The atmosphere, obviously partly to do with the tickets and the allocations and all the rest of it. But is it also, and me and my son were talking about this on the way home, the expectation, that first year, 22, 23, when this team emerged,

and the excitement the the oh my god what has happened to us you know how amazing we were and there was just an excitement going along with the team and that sort of maintained into into last season whereas this season there is a right we have to win something and when they when they don't when it doesn't feel like we're going to there's a disappointment uh

in the air that I haven't felt for a couple of seasons. And I don't like the vibe down there. I didn't... I must admit...

I was getting, I was putting on my 19 layers before I went out yesterday, which takes about half an hour, by the way. And I didn't really feel like going, if I'm totally honest with you. And this is not something that happens to me that often. What do you think about the general atmosphere in there? Yeah, I'm hearing both of you and, you know, it's hard to disagree with anything. My speciality is in the football, so I'll sort of turn it around to that and

and say that the football isn't as good. And Amy used a good word there when she was just wrapping up, which she said inhibited. And I think that is a fair word to describe it. And we've become quite predictable, safe. And it's like we're sort of overthinking it, I think, in terms of the way that we're performing and the way that we're moving the ball around.

And if we're the sort of team that is meant to lift the fans, let's say, as opposed to the fans lifting the players, the sort of football we're playing is not going to lift the fans, is it? No, and it's not. And opponents are seeing the type of football we're playing and they're setting up accordingly. Obviously, you've got to take into account the fact that because we've been so brilliant for two seasons, then teams now play us in a different way and they...

they also sense where we're weakest and yeah Man United had a back five Newcastle switched to a back five there's no coincidence in both games

we kind of resorted to just flinging the ball into the box over and over again. Again, you know, in terms of crosses, I moaned about it the other day, but 44 crosses in this match, 32 of those were in open play. So for me, that's just too many for a team that, you know, is built around moving the ball around with combination play, slipping players into the box to make things happen. So, yes, yeah,

I think we've gone a bit stale in our football. And maybe now's a good chance to bring up the point that I mentioned to producer Jay ahead of the pod in regards to the way we build up. Kai Havertz, I sent over a touch map for Kai Havertz. The 18-yard box is 44 yards wide, okay? I would say there's a corridor of 40 yards barring just a little section on the edge of the box.

From the halfway line to the box, big square, 40 yards width-wise, where Havertz did not touch the ball. Did not touch the ball between the halfway line and the penalty area, the width of the penalty box. Now...

We can all moan about Mourinho, for example. And, you know, he was a bit of a passenger in the game and he didn't really influence it. You know, 14 accurate passes. It was a really disappointing outing, I think, for Mikel Mourinho. But...

But if you're going to make those runs in support of a striker and make things happen down the centre of the pitch, you need to get the ball into your front man for him to hold it, to lay it off for supporting runners. And then you go from there, especially when you play against three centre-halves. When you play against three centre-halves, the aim of the game is to draw them out of position.

If you've only got one striker there and you're never giving the ball to that striker, then you're not drawing anyone away from that area at all. You're just funneling the ball wide every single time. And that was the great frustration for me. You've got to, we've got to hurt teams better down the middle of the pitch. And it's a braver pass to play it into the striker because it's more crowded there.

But you've got to do it. You have to do it to draw defenders out of position because you give it into Havertz and he pulls off and he knocks it inside to an Erdegaard, to a Marino, to a Rice, and then someone has got to come out of their position to close that guy down. And then when they do, you slip it in behind to someone else. We've seen it a million times over the last two years, but we've stopped doing it. Adrian, at one point when...

United were down to 10 men and were sort of, you know, just digging in in the way that they were. And like you say, there was this kind of gap in those areas centrally. I wondered whether it was worth bringing Martinelli inside to play next to Havertz and have an extra man there. And then use whoever, Trossard or anything. He even played Tierney or Zinchenko a bit further up wide on the left if he wanted to.

Just to try something different. But it seems that something is stuck. Something is stuck and regimented in the approach. That the idea of going outside of that and shaking it up, we can't shake it up in terms of personnel because the personnel is not there. The squad looks decimated in terms of numbers, energy, and sort of positivity in all levels.

So if I can't bring in new bodies at the moment to make that different, for Wednesday, for example...

what about changing the, you know, the person, you know, the structure of the team somehow? Yeah, I would like to have seen sort of go 4-2-4 against 10 men, you know, go with the two strikers just to get the ball down the middle to encourage us to really, to use the spine and the pitch a little bit better. I would have done that. But Mikel does seem a bit reluctant to make that change. You know,

As critical as we are, we still did, you know, both these games create more than enough

to win those matches and win, you know, not so much win it against Newcastle, but to at least get two or three goals against Newcastle, to get four goals against Manchester United. So for as critical as we are of the build-up play, and I think we're right to be critical of it because it has become a little bit, you know, predictable and laborious. We have still created, I think, four goals

golden opportunities to score in that game. Adrian, on that point, and I want to get onto some of the personnel in a second, but on that point, when you see that figure, 6.44 or 6.41, whatever it is, XG for the last two games, does that feel right? I...

I mean, yeah, I take the point you're making, but I don't really feel like we should have scored six goals in these two games. I mean, we could have done. I'm not saying we... You know, Kai Havertz missed three fantastic chances in the two games. Fantastic chances. There was one where he ballooned it over the bar in the second half from basically the same position that Alexander Isak buried it into the top of the net. But I...

I'm not so sure. That actually seems a bit misleading. And it seems to me like some people might take that as a, yeah, we're still doing the right things. What do you think about that? Yeah, I can see that. I think it's more of an accumulation of lots of little chances that sort of adds up to the totals that they reach. But in this game, I mean, the Kai Havers chance is an easy chance. The Declan Rice header is a free header inside the box.

You know, there were others as well, obviously a penalty. So yeah, I'm hearing you. I've got some numbers just quickly because obviously we're talking at the moment about not creating good enough chances and being bad finishers, basically, because we've had a shocking week in terms of finishing.

We do rank third in the Premier League for conversion rate. It hasn't been an issue this season compared to others. So yeah, if you take out block shots, we're third for the best conversion rate in the Premier League. If you include blocks, we're fifth. So we're still very high. In terms of big chance conversion, we're sixth. We're still very high. In terms of creating, we're third for big chances created.

And we're third for goals scored. So, you know. It doesn't feel that way. It doesn't feel that way. Also, you say sixth in big chances created and you say that's quite high. Not if you're trying to win the league or you're trying to win trophies. Big chance conversion. I don't think sixth sounds...

too high. Well, Liverpool are fifth. Liverpool are fifth. And no one else in the top bracket of teams is in the top four. Can I just ask you one question? In my mind's eye, so many of the big chances that have been around lately have been headers. Is it more difficult to score a header than score with your foot? I hope that doesn't sound like a foolish question. That was terrible. I

I'm just curious. I don't know. Would we rather those things be falling to people's feet? Is that an easier skill? Is it harder skill to measure a header? I don't know. I'm not talking if you're like a great header of the ball. I'm just talking generally for most players. Or do they practice it less?

I don't know. I'm just curious. You just said you used the phrase unless you're a great header of the ball and probably we've got one that's a great header of the ball in Gabriel Magalhães but I think Kai Havertz in the past has been a very good scorer of headed goals but you look elsewhere around the side and there aren't

players that are noted for scoring headed goals, are they? But we make the predominant amount of good chances seem to be going to the heads. And that's why I get frustrated at the number of loopy crosses that we put into the box. Exactly. Because in my opinion, it doesn't play to our strengths. Kai Havertz has scored a lot of headed goals in his career, but I would hazard a guess that a lot of them came when he arrived late in the box. When he's a striker standing in there waiting on his own often, he's

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All right, let's talk about Kai Havertz then. Obviously, a rough few games for him. I mean, he was pretty much straight down the tunnel after the game and I can't blame him, really. I mean, Jay has asked this question and I agree with it and I'm asking you guys, has Arsenal's strengths of our business over the last couple of seasons caught up with us in this week?

Amy, what do you think about that? Because there is a lot of pressure on Kai. He's our main man. He's never really been a main man, has he? And it sort of looks like he looks like the Chelsea Kai Havertz to a certain extent. And it would be helpful, would it not, to have someone else who could maybe step in and maybe he could step back into midfield? So wouldn't it have been useful if any of us had been saying that for the past three years, Adrian? Anyway, look, I thought somebody...

I can't remember who, apologies, made a really interesting point, which is, was the second half of last season when Havertz really enjoyed a golden period, him overachieving? And did Arsene get suckered in slightly? Like, is the, you know, the more regular Kai Havertz more like the guy who...

We've had it the first half of this season, the first half of last season, or more like that guy from the second half of last season who had a magic period where his numbers were fantastic. He was hugely influential. He was bursting with confidence. He played virtually every minute of every game and was key. Now,

By showing what he showed in that second half of the season, it was very easy to have a look at that, I think, if you're Arsenal. Oh, we got one. We got one. Well, I mean, I think we always thought it would be nice to have more than one. Well, you and Adrian were talking about this on a weekly basis, by the way. But in terms of their transfer spend, in terms of where they spent their money and what money they generated, yeah.

Maybe they got slightly kidded into thinking that Kai would be doing that forevermore. And by not doing that, and by not having alternatives or dependable backup, it puts horrendous pressure on him. I think probably unfair pressure on him actually in a club as big as Arsenal to be shouldering that burden of being pretty much the only nominal centre-forward player

And even then, you know, it's not like he spent his whole life being a centre forward. Plus, there's not goals coming from elsewhere on the pitch, are there? We lost Bukayo. Gabriel Martinelli's not scoring. Trossard's not scoring. Havertz is still our highest goal scorer this season. Yeah, but there's no goals from midfield. There's really nothing coming from elsewhere. So the pressure on him. Big Gabby. Big Gabby. Big Gabby is really... And he got another one yesterday. But I think there's... You know, I was thinking about this before.

I think if you're a manager, if you're Arteta, there's an interesting dynamic between how much of an optimist you are and how much of a pragmatist you are. Because you have to be a bit of both. And when you look at Arteta, I think he is a very strong pragmatist. We all know that. But he's also an optimist. He's also someone that thinks his players are going to be brilliant.

and has faith in them and protects them. And that's why he turned around at the press conference yesterday when questions were asked and said, you know, I love my players. What else could he say? Well, exactly. I mean, but I think that if you sat down with Mikel, you know, in pre-season and said, what are you envisaging for this season? There is no way on earth he envisages anything

Pretty much all of his forward line underperforming. Bar Saka, who isn't available anyway. And the numbers have dropped off so much. I mean, I'm just looking at the last couple of seasons compared to now. I mean, it's only obviously not the full season yet. So I'm just looking at Prem goals. But, you know, Trossard got 12 Prem goals last year and he's on three this year.

And by the way, in the last three and a half months of his appearances, he's got one goal and two assists, which he came in the EFL Cup against Crystal Palace. Odegaard, who got 15 goals two years ago in the league, eight last season, has won this season. You know, the level of drop-off is frightening and something you couldn't really...

build into your plans that, that, that so many of the forward players were going to fall off so badly all at the same time. Is it individual in part it's individual form. I know that, but could it be the structure, the structure of the team? And, and I think that you, if you can't change the individuals, you can't, there's not a magic powder that you can take to, to, to bring you back into top form. Um,

then I think you have to consider changing the structure of the team and there are two obvious ones to my mind that we could do without going too up front if Mikel is so reluctant to do that one is to move Martin O'Degard into an actual number 10 position and play with two central midfielders now we've got loads of central midfielders and keep you know not inhibit them but

but they're providing the platform. But Urdegaard is far more unpredictable in his movement. For me, everything is in the same part of the field and he's brilliant at it. And he created two of the best chances in the game with those lovely in-swinging left foot crosses. There were a few too many of them, weren't there? Yeah, there were too many. And I think,

Urdegaard would be more effective given a freer role to play to the left, to the right and encouraged to make runs beyond Kai Havertz. And then if you do that and you have the double pivot midfield, then you get your fullbacks higher. For me, it's get the ball wide to Martinelli, Jesus, whoever it is, and leave them one-on-one. And sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. For me...

I want to see the fullbacks flying around the outside more often, creating those overloads because that gives

is the easiest way to get to the byline. And if you get to the byline, you've got a much better chance of getting on the end of a cross than you have if you chop back in and curl an in-swinger into the box. We're not getting to the byline enough. And I think to get there, we need the fullbacks to play higher. I looked at this game. I looked at this game and the touch maps of Lewis Skelly and Timber's

precious few touches given we're playing against 10 men and we've had 70% of the ball very few touches in that final 18 yards of the pitch neither man really had very many touches so they're the two obvious changes for me

We've rarely talked about Ben White, Benjamin White, since he got injured, actually. But you know what? I do think they miss him sometimes going up the outside. And by the way, of all those crosses we had yesterday, the best one was Kieran Tierney's. You went, what a perfect pass. But obviously Kai Havertz is not that sort of guy to run into that space. Gabriel Jesus stretched it off with what looked like a bad injury. The way it happened...

I hate to think it's an ACL, but I sort of had that... You know, the way that he sort of carried on for a bit, a bit like Uri and Timber when he got his against Fulham, when he played on for a bit and then down he went. I mean...

Are we going to buy anyone, Adrian? I mean, surely, surely there must be someone on earth who plays football. I'm not talking about looking for, you know, from another planet, right? But I think their transfer window closed a little bit separately to ours. But I'm saying there must be someone who can improve the attack of the team and also, by the way, change the mood of the dressing room. Someone

new comes in and looks at them and goes lads why are you so down you're brilliant well there couldn't be any other scenario you know we've just had a week where we've missed loads of chances we've gone out of you know gone out of one cup competition almost out of another one

We've lost Saka, we've lost Jesus, we've lost Juan Eri. You know, this is the time, isn't it? We really do have to act. There couldn't be a more opportune moment for Mikel Arteta to knock on the door and say...

Look, we need help. If you want to salvage the season, I need more. Can we bring the budget for the summer that's been set aside? Can we bring it forward, please? And pay the release clause of one of these players that we're interested in at least one.

maybe two, and get it done and worry about what we do in the summer, in the summer. It would just lift everybody, wouldn't it? I mean, that's a very simplistic way to look at it, but I just feel that the urgency, the need for it has never been halved.

higher, really, in recent memory, in my opinion anyway. Amy, I mean, same question to you. Surely, it's, I mean, look, I don't think we're getting Alexander Reset, right? Two seasons ago he was 60 million, now he's about 120. They're not spending that in January. He's not leaving anyway. But,

But what we can't go and talk to, go to Turkey, is it Victor Rossi men's out there at the moment? He's on loan, for goodness sake. We can't spend some money on it. I mean, you know, Goy Carez. I mean, I hate to sound like everyone else, and you guys have been talking about this for a while, but needs must at this point. We need someone new in that dressing room who's going to lift them. I think we probably need more than one, and I think it needs to be ASAP. And if it doesn't happen, I think it's probably quite negligent.

Because when you look at the current state of play and this is a squad that needs help. This is a squad that is feeling it really, really deeply. You know, and with every passing game that you're pushing and trying to get more out of the same knackered group. It's, you know, I'm looking at the fixture list. The one silver lining of going out the cup was that the trip to Dubai will be on. It will happen during the fourth round of the cup.

But that's seven games away. That's four league games, two Champions League games and the Newcastle return in between, right? It's not a magic thing either, Dubai. It worked last year, it doesn't mean it would work this year. Yeah, it worked two years in a row. I think it would be a huge help, let's put it that way. And I think if they can go to Dubai, have a rest, reset,

come together. I think there's a lot of group feel-good stuff that goes on there. It's not just having a break kind of individually. I think it tends to have a really positive effect on bringing everyone together. I'm sure they're all feeling like **** today. I'm sure they're all a bit anxious about Wednesday night. You know, you're looking at the games coming every three days. There's very little you can do in terms of changing the squad and round and freshening it up. It is what it is. No, no.

But if by some miracle they can pull themselves together enough to get good results, particularly in the league matches, and indeed the Champions League matches would be helpful. So to avoid an extra round of fixtures. Two extra games. Yeah, we definitely don't need that at the moment. Then I genuinely think there's 14 games post Dubai in the league that look like a lot of points are achievable. But...

If Arsenal are only just clinging on by their fingernails at the moment to the idea that they might be competing seriously for the league, they've got to somehow dig out probably four wins out of four. Two signings. Two signings. But they need to be...

almost. Well, it's a good time, isn't it? To be able to affect the remaining games. Today and tomorrow is when we're looking. One today, one tomorrow. By the time you listen to this podcast, we might have signed someone. Nico Williams today, Jokeres tomorrow, and Bermud by the end of the month. It's all good. It's all good. But in all seriousness, what a great way to bed in two new players in Dubai. Yeah.

in that first weekend of February, you know, or the second weekend of February because, you know, those trips are good for getting to know each other and they're also good for new players. So, yeah, look, yeah, we've all seen the names. I think Williams and Mbomo as wingers and Jokeres and Rossi and Stryker or Sesko. You know, these are the level of players that we have to aspire to bring in and

And I think we have to give it a go. We have to give it a go this month. Yeah. Our penalties, Martin Erdegaard's penalty during the game, which I believe would have won us the game, by the way. I just didn't see United scoring if we got back in front, particularly with 10 men. And then the penalty shootout where David Rea...

It almost looked like he dived out of the way, to be honest with you. I know he didn't. I know he didn't. But I had no real confidence that he was going to save one, especially as they take him first in front of the United fans as well. I thought that was a bit unfortunate. Adrian. Look, anyone can miss a pen. I thought that the... It can happen. The Bayern dear guy, the goalie for Man U, they're two amazing saves for Merdegard and then Habert. A full stretch right in the corner. They were great saves. With David Raya...

I just, the disappointment. First of all, it's genius from Manchester United because they've planned it. Okay. They know that David Raya goes early. They know it. And they've told all five penalty takers to wait. All five. It was clearly a tactic and a non-commentary. I think I called it after the second or definitely the third that it's a tactic. Yeah.

And the one disappointment, because goalies are never favourites to save penalties, but the one disappointment, and I'm loathe to be critical of Raya because he's been brilliant. I could see it was a tactic. I think probably most of the fans inside the ground could see that he was going too early and that they were waiting. The disappointment is that he didn't recognise it in the moment and think, hang on a sec.

They're all waiting for me to go. I need to stay on my line and just guess correctly when they come up to the ball. And that's the disappointment because he did make it really easy for United to score those pens. Essentially, five times out of five, Raya dived or was sent the wrong way. And their goalkeeper dived the right way three times. Now, if you dive the right way, you've got half a chance.

So I think that was just a huge factor that to have not gone the right direction on any of the penalties means it makes it very, very difficult. But the reason he didn't go the right direction was because United waited. Absolutely, yeah. So why weren't Arsenal waiting?

I mean, two of Arsenal's rises and parties, the goalie went the right way and they had to be, but they were absolutely brilliant penalties. Otherwise he might've got to them as well. It's a hard skill, by the way. I wouldn't have been able to take a penalty that way. And I was a penalty taker. I wanted to look at the ball and I just made my mind up before I'd even hit it. Made my mind up before I've even done the run up.

where I'm going to hit it. And if the keeper guesses correctly and gets a fair play to him, you know, it's a really difficult skill. And I was actually admired the nerve of the United players to do it. But for me, it was a definite ploy. They talked about it and they'd picked the players who were comfortable doing it as well. So they outweighed us there. You know, they'd maybe planned that shootout earlier.

better than us. Just going back to what we were saying earlier. And I, I, I kind of agree with you, Stoney about this, something quite nice about in an old school way about the opposition having kind of an end, the other end to you. Yeah. But I mean, let's talk to Jay about this earlier. Like we do seem a bit of a relic in the sense that we're still giving away supporters and,

lower tier, behind the goal, you know, good seats. And the vast majority of Premier League teams don't afford that. That same luxury. You're about four miles up, aren't you? For example. But again, it's a small margin. It should be a rule. It should be a rule. And, and, and, and, you know, I think Arsenal disadvantaged themselves sometimes by giving, you know, great lower tier allocations, even the sort of standard Premier League one. Mm.

majority of places in the Prem, it's upstairs, it's down the side, it's wherever they want to stick you. And again, it's maybe something the club could look at. The Premier League need to force it. They need to force Newcastle. Because I know Newcastle...

they'll give an excuse of we can't, you know, we can't change it. But I think that, I think they should force it upon clubs because there is always a way to reallocate. There's also a safe standing thing as well. There was, the reason that they couldn't put some of them up the top was because they know they're going to stand up and they can't have safe standing. Yeah, but away fans stand up everywhere, Stoney. Have you,

been to away games I've been to away games at all sorts of places and everyone stands up the whole time everywhere that's what they do away fans should never be in the upper tier they shouldn't be in the upper tier it should because it adds to the spectacle of the occasion to have them in sight it's fine but then make it for everyone no no that's what I'm saying the Premier League and when you are giving a big allocation like that I think it would be it would be beneficial if Arsenal could give some of the upstairs seating to the away supporters and

So that we still have a presence behind the goal at the clock end, which would be helpful. To a certain extent, it's almost a perfect storm, isn't it? When you think about all the games and the injuries and all the rest of it. Plus, to lose the tosses on both taking first and what end it was. I was like, really? Of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the Murphy's Law season. I think David Rea, by the way, made a great save in extra time. Oh, brilliant save. A great save, Dan. That was really a brilliant right. But,

there was a moment in the penalty shootout where I thought I wouldn't mind seeing Emmy and Cole for this to be honest with you but you know that was just me by the way our FA Cup showing since winning it in 2020 fourth round v Southampton third round v Forest fourth round v City third round v Liverpool third round v Manchester United it's not good enough League Cup's not much better by the way I know we you know obviously there are priorities but we have to do better

because it's the FA Cup and I want to see us progress. Anyway, Wednesday, we got Tottenham. Well, I tell you what, you can't see Amy and Adrian both head in hands at this point. But you know what? They've got injuries as well. And they got taken away extra time by Tamworth, let's not forget, yesterday. So they're not any better than they used to be. We'll do that after the break. Go, go, go!

They get a hand break off and you can see that they are more free to play. Ian Stone, Amy Lawrence and Adrian Clarke here on Hand Break Off.

I'd steal the name because we have not been, we have been playing with a handbrake on the last few games, I would say. But anyway, anyway. The handbrake's bloody jammed, mate. It does seem to be jammed. It's more of an aspiration, but it would be nice, wouldn't it? Um,

Yeah, I mean, no time for a break. They've got a day. They've got a day. What is it today? It's Monday, isn't it? Wednesday, we've got Tottenham. Oh, my God, there's going to be a raw atmosphere in there on Wednesday night. That is going to be stunning. But the main fans will be back. And this is, by the way, not having a go at your irregular fans. I know you come when you can, but there was a definite, the atmosphere was, the United fans were the ones who were doing most of the singing. They weren't great.

I didn't think, considering how much they had. They went really quiet at some points. At some points. I don't think it was as good as what I anticipated. But I do think enough with this nonsense of giving rival fans that we maybe don't like very much historically a bloody great day out at our place.

That really cheesed me off. Yeah, when we say don't like much historically, what we mean is absolutely hate. But it just took me back to last season and all the Liverpool fans celebrating and Jurgen Klopp doing the punching. It just felt exactly the same as I'm going up the stairs and I turn around and that's the last thing I see. Anyway, huge amount of pressure on Wednesday. I mean, Jay...

has written here, season hanging by a thread a bit. It does feel that way, but on the other hand, two wins this week against Spurs and Villa, and we are in a good position in the league. We really are. Um,

I mean, in the end, I could ask you what team we're going to play, but we've got about 14 to choose from. Adrian, I mean, essentially, you should look at them and go, who's not completely knackered and choose that 11, right? Well, there's not a lot of wriggle room, is there, really, in terms of team selection. So I don't think there'll be too many surprises. Rice will start, clearly. Yeah.

And Habits will definitely be up front. Got no one else. Is there no one else to play there? Yeah. I'm looking for improvement from Saliba and Gabriel as well. I do think that they've looked a bit wobbly, even though Mikel's been at pains to say the opposition have barely created anything. And yeah, we have been a bit unlucky in terms of opponents have been really efficient scoring against us. But yeah,

they don't look quite as imperious in my opinion they haven't lately so and they will be put under pressure do they not need a bit more protection in midfield yeah I mean is that not quite possibly a massive part of things midfield has been dysfunctional all season quite possibly well that's what I'm talking about with using

using two central midfielders as a block, you know, down the middle of the pitch. I think that would be better personally. But Spurs will come at us. You know that. You know, it'll be Kulosevsky, who's a dangerous player, Son. Solanke's a brilliant pressing centre forward. But I want a team to come at us, for goodness sake. I mean, all these low blocks that we're playing against. Oh, they will. And stylistically, it's a good game for us, isn't it? Because they'll come at us. We should be able to play through them and we can...

we should be able to... We won't be up against that low block as often in this derby. There's no doubt about that. It'll be more of an ebb and flow to the match. And yeah, we should outscore Tottenham, given that their defence contains Dragasin and Archie Gray at centre-back. And, you know, we don't know who's going to play left-back. So, yeah, we should outscore Spurs and win the game. But it is a high-pressure match. And...

Huge pressure. And they have very good forwards that can cause us problems. So I'm nervous about it. I think it's a dangerous game. Amy, have you got anything to add to that, really? No. Not really, no. Okay. I never look forward to it. The only thing is that it feels like we all know that it's either going to be

a kind of elation at the end and feeling like everything's okay again because it means so much or it's going to really feel like the end of the world. Doom. Doom. It is what it might feel like if we mess it up. So don't mess it up, lads. There's a lot on the line. There's ever such a lot at stake. And I just hope, I hope that they can somehow in these next couple of days, uh,

I don't know what it is. You know, Mikel's always been a bit of a master of trying to come up with some, you know, some plan or some foible that kind of gets everyone thinking differently or all those kind of creative things that he does behind the scenes. And I hope he's got a good one up his sleeve that he's had in reserve because it's about changing the mindset somehow and making those players feel confident again, because clearly they're very drained of that mindset.

And I mean, you know, we talked a lot about habits and just to make the point, I'm sure everybody has more or less seen some of the social media stuff that was sent to his family yesterday. Oh, yeah. Particularly his wife. And, you know, we can't underestimate the effect that that has on somebody. You know, so quite apart from what he's feeling about his own form, and I'm sure there's no one that is more disappointed in what he's been able to get out of recent games than him.

He's very exposed. You're out there. You've got to kind of deal with it. You've got to play through it. You've got to come out the next game and try and feel better about it. And I really hope that people can see a bigger picture in terms of the fan base who's in the ground, who are not the kind of people I wouldn't have thought that sends that kind of despicable trash out.

But, you know, let's try and support these boys. It's the North London Derby. It's a game where we have to be unified. We have to beat Arsenal, everybody in it together from that first minute until it's finished. And no turning on anyone. No groans and moans.

nah that can't be done yeah support the players yeah support them absolutely right do you think a comedy gig would help we could a lot of us like comedy get yourself down there pre-match it's a high pressure gig to be honest with you 18 different languages how would you start a pre-match team talk for the North London Derby Stoney come on what would you be doing to lift the lads I mean honestly I mean well if I was doing a gig I'm

I mean, to be honest, if it was like the team, I'd probably start quite well and then it would tail off as things went on. Do you know what? I was in the Arsenal dressing room once, by the way. Remember Frank Carson, the comedian from the 80s? Oh my God, that's a cracker. It's a cracker.

He was invited in to dress for him to meet the players. How was it? Oh, it was terrible. It was absolutely awful. It was absolutely awful because what he did, he was supposed to just come in and just meet the players and say hi, you know, shake his hand or whatever. But he couldn't resist it. He couldn't resist. Of course he can't. He couldn't resist telling a few gags. Yeah, it was... I wouldn't say it was tumbleweed, but it was awkward. LAUGHTER

Yeah. No, there was literally nothing I could say. I'd probably give him a hug, to be honest with you. Anything to not have to tell jokes to, like I say, 18 different languages or whatever we've got in that dressing room. That'd be a tough game. I'm just thinking of Gabriel Magalhães looking at me as I tell stories. Like, what are you doing here, mate? So, no, I go back to the pub suggestion I made after the other game the other week. They just maybe just get out of themselves for half an hour, you know?

Anyway. Take them to one of your all-day trance clubs, Stoney. See if that fixes things. Yeah, that would help tremendously because I'm definitely up for playing football the day after. I'll tell you that. It'll get the heart rate going. It would. There's no doubt. Instead of training, that's true. They'd get more exercise doing that. Let's have a song. By the way, so we have gone on a bit today, but we have to sort of...

It's because we care. It's because we care an incredible amount and we have to process this stuff. And thanks for staying with us. Um, if you have, I mean,

Anyway, let's have a song to finish. Adrian, your songs are usually quite upbeat, but what have you got for us? No, they are. I'm laughing because it couldn't be less upbeat today. First of all, I want to repeat the song that I chose last time, which was Help by The Beatles, because we still need it. But I just wanted to pick a song that sums up how I feel right now. And it will change, I'm sure, on Wednesday night, but...

Heaven knows I'm miserable now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, absolutely right. I see that. I was happy in the haze of a drunken eye, but heaven knows I'm miserable now. All right. Amy, can you out-miserable that? I imagine you can, actually, to be honest with you. I get the vibe that you might be able to. I was tempted to pick Queen of the Stone Age and Sick, Sick, Sick.

So that's kind of how I felt. But I couldn't stand the song, so I didn't. I've gone for a song by LTJ Bookham called Mood Swings because I feel like the moods have been a bit volatile lately, one way or another. And we do need another swing in terms of the mood. But also, apart from the fact that I absolutely just adore this song, there's a bit of poetry in the middle of it.

Some very cool lyrics. And I think the best thing to do is if I just leave it to Jade to play this bit. But for your benefit, I'll say it. He says, Very good.

And I love that. Yeah, it's beautiful, actually. And yeah, hopefully Wednesday. I've gone for Velvet Underground, Venus in Furs. I am tired. I am weary. I could sleep for a thousand years.

Yeah, which is how I felt. It's why I went to bed at 10 o'clock last night, which is why I couldn't listen to you ranting for half an hour, Amy, even though you wanted me to. Anyway, that's it for this edition. I'll remember that next time you want to rant to me, Stoney. Oh, come on.

Come on. Come on, just the one time. But okay, listen, generally I'm there for you, Amy, right? I'm there for you. I just, I was in a bit of a mess myself, to be honest with you. And that's it for this edition of Handbrake Off. Thanks to Adrian. Thanks to Amy. Thanks to JR, producer. And we'll see you after them lot up the road on Wednesday. Ta-ra. Ta-ra.

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