Arsenal show their character at Anfield
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The only way to score is, of course, to play with a handbrake off. Hello, I'm Ian Stone. This is Handbrake Off, the Arsenal podcast brought to you by The Athletic.

So on Sunday, the Arsenal fought back from 2-0 down to draw 2-2 with Liverpool at Anfield to reflect on the game. I'm joined by Adrian Clarke and Amy Lawrence. Morning. Good morning. Hello, hello. Morning. You're our train buddy. Train buddy, that's right. For those of you who don't know, we finished recording the podcast on, what was it, Thursday, and then I got on a train to Manchester, and who was on the train but Adrian Clarke?

One seat away. It was freaking. One seat away. It was absolutely freaking. Well, I suppose the point is, if it would have been 100 seats away, we wouldn't have known we were on the same train, would we? So it's the fact that I... I mean, I understand what you're saying anyway. It doesn't matter. It was nice to see it. Didn't have anything to talk about, did you, you two? Yeah, yeah. We just continued the podcast for an hour and a half, but we didn't record anything. Obviously, before we talk about that stirring comeback...

I know how I wish Martin Erdogan's shot had gone in at the end with 10 men just to silence them. Trent Alexander-Arnold is bound for Real Madrid this summer on a free, it should be added, was booed by the Liverpool fans as he was substituted on. And then every time he touched the ball, except when he took the free kick, incidentally, because they thought they might have put him off.

I did feel, to be honest, like I was intruding on a family drama, if I'm totally honest with you. There were times when I thought, there's like different things going on here. Adrian, you've been quite vocal about this, have you not? About them booing Trent Alexander-Arnold. Because I've got to be honest with you, I find it quite funny. And we've got, can I just say, we're Arsenal fans. We've had our thing with Granit Xhaka in the past. It's not quite the same.

But we have also fallen out with our own players. But you said you weren't having it and you'd be appalled. I didn't agree with Arsenal fans booing Granit Xhaka either. I just didn't think that was right. But on this, it just shocked me, the sort of animosity. It's not a crime to honour your contract and to opt at the end of that contract for

not to renew it for a fresh experience. It doesn't matter how he went about it. I don't think he did anything particularly bad. He just chose not to sign a new contract. Cost him a lot of money, didn't he? Footballers don't owe clubs money. They don't owe them a fee.

A club, and I've been on the receiving end of this, clubs will get shot of you, trust me, mid-contract when you don't want to leave. When you love the club, they will force you out of the door. They will shove you out and no one will give a crap about it. So players don't owe clubs a fee. That is rubbish. He honoured his contract. If a player doesn't honour a contract and forces their way out, give them pelters.

But I don't think Trent Alexander-Arnold deserved that. I thought it was really uncomfortable, actually. And then it was absolutely hilarious that they tried to clap when he was over the free kick. I mean, absolutely ridiculous. But yeah, I'm getting peltas today from Liverpool fans. But I also know some sensible Liverpool fans who absolutely agree and that they were embarrassed by what happened. But this myth of it being a crime for a player to honour their contract and then choose not to sign a new one

is absolute bullshit. Players have one career and they are entitled to do whatever they like with it. They're not married to a club for life. They're married to that club for the length of the contract, unless the club want to kick them out. I mean, I'll tell you what, Amy, I must admit, I quite enjoy pettiness and small-mindedness, right? I mean, I really do, particularly when it comes to football fans. But Adrian makes a very good point. How do you feel about what went on yesterday?

Lots of things. I totally agree with Adrian. And I think what really puzzles me about it is that, you know, we've all been there with whoever club you support where a player leaves and, you know, there's bad blood after that. And either you agree with it or you don't. And I know lots of people who feel very, very strongly about that.

Fabregas or Van Persie or, you know, whoever we wish to mention and however far back we want to go about people leaving. I don't always share that view. I don't feel quite as strongly as most, but I think he...

It's more understandable if you are, you know, this is not a Sol Campbell situation. You're not leaving to go to your biggest rivals. He's not going to rock up at Man City or Man United or even anywhere in the Premier League. I think to deny a player the opportunity to broaden their horizons, to consider it some kind of heinous insult,

that you might want to go and live in Spain and play for Real Madrid when you've got plenty of career in front of you and you've had an amazing experience behind you already at that club. That was one of the reasons why I maybe felt slightly differently. We talk about Van Persie and Fabregas, about those two, because I felt with Cesc wanting to go to Barcelona, where he was from, I didn't think that was something that I could honestly look in the mirror and begrudge him.

Because, you know, I'm a big believer in travel and going and doing stuff and having new experiences. And why shouldn't a footballer? But I'm kind of going a bit off topic. I think that there was, you know, certainly from what I've heard secondhand from Arsenal supporters who were there, my son was in the away end and some of his mates, you know, a slightly different take on

they thought it was funny. They're a bit more on the Ian Stone side than the A.J. Clarke side. Apparently, every time Trent Alexander-Arnold came down near the Arsenal and they were all applauding him, giving him cheers and stuff. Hilarious. You know, respond, let's say. They had to take a fair amount of the Liverpool fans in the first half. So it was a nice opportunity for them to give a bit back, I guess.

I'm told as they were leaving the ground, the Arsenal supporters were singing Trent Alexander Arnold. He left, goes to York. At which point, some old boy got very, very hot under the collar and was going, your shit, your shit, your shit. Or something like that. At your child? Yes. Outrageous. But, you know, it's all part of the...

It's all part of the fun and games. I mean, well, this is the point, Amy. If we've got, you know, men of my age or even Adrian's age shouting abuse at 17-year-old boys, that tells you that the whole thing is not rational. Look, it's deeply emotive. Of course it is. And it really did. You know, you talk about the Gwannock Jacker thing and that really came to my mind as well. Yes, because I would say possibly that was one of the most...

depressing things I witnessed as an Arsenal person. I remember at the end of that game just feeling distraught

I think we all did. Like, what are we doing? What are we doing? And what was very interesting about it was within that level of distraughtness, you had people all across the spectrum. You had people who were upset because their point of view is you never, ever, ever boo the arsehole captain. And there were people at the complete other end of the spectrum who were going, he threw down the...

or the shirt or whatever it is. He swore at the fads. He's crossed the line. You never, ever, ever do that. And kind of everything in between. Who's right? Ultimately, this game of ours is fiercely emotional. Who are any of us to judge how any of us feels? I think so long as it doesn't cross the line into personal, dangerous, vicious abuse, we feel what we feel and people say it. But when I think about probably...

Some of the toughest periods as an Arsenal supporter was maybe towards the end of the Wenger era when there was the division of Wenger in, Wenger out. And I saw people fight over it. I saw Arsenal fans kick off with other Arsenal fans because some people wanted to say their piece and other people thought you shouldn't be slagging off our own. And I suspect that there's levels of that going on.

at Liverpool with this situation as well I mean I think there's probably there are idiots and there's probably really rational people and everything in between like any fan base

Like any fan base, and they certainly were on the phone-ins last night, and the Nottingham Forest chairman went on the pitch and had a go at Nuno after they'd just qualified for Europe. But what he said, what Nuno said, I thought was quite cool. He said it's an emotional game, and I think we have to remember that. Even while we maybe look at the behaviour of that guy or some of those Liverpool fans and think, you know what?

maybe it's a bit far. Like I say, I quite like petty small-modernness myself, but not everyone's into it. I don't think he was having a go at Nuno. Just to put it into context, I think he was upset about Awanee and the medical staff not getting him on. I think that's what it was. So I think he got a bit misconstrued down. But yeah, look, yeah, I sort of got on my high horse a little bit there. But yeah, everyone is entitled to feel how they want to feel. But,

But, yeah, I just thought it was a bit out of order. Helped us, though, didn't it? To be fair, Liverpool 2, Arsenal 2. I mean, we were the better team in the second half after coming from a 2-0 down with what I think we all felt was a pretty, pretty bad first-half performance. Mikel Arteta clearly got into the players at half-time.

as despite rescuing a point, he was fuming in his post-match press conference. Very far of it, really upset. Yeah, we had a reaction. I hate reaction. I like action and especially we want to be there winning trophies. You want to be a moment that you win it or you don't. And when you don't, after you have to play another one that you have been working for nine months and that's here today. And if you cannot win it, you have to be the best of the rest.

And I was really, really upset. I mean, Amy, we were talking on the phone in the first half, or rather half-time in this game, as you took your dog for a walk. And it was depressing, wasn't it, the first half? I mean, I said to you, we just ain't got the legs, have we? How wrong I was, by the way. But that first-half performance...

was everyone feeling a bit sorry for themselves, right? Do you know what? There's a Jordan Campbell's piece today in The Athletic I thought was a brilliant start. He invoked something Spanish, which I probably say it wrong, I think is la pajara, which I think means a sense of paralysis and exhaustion that comes out of nowhere. And he said that Arteta had felt that

Only once in his playing career during a 5-1 defeat at Anfield. And you could imagine after those 87 seconds thinking for him to go back in his mind to that and think no way because I think he found that experience as a player one of the most horrendous he ever had. And I'll give you the quote because he found it Jordan. It's a very interesting quote.

I could only see red shirts flying around, the game is passing all over me and I cannot react emotionally, physically. You know what I did? I hid and I gave up on the pitch and we lost 5-1. I never forget for the rest of my career what I did here. I never did. And I think when you listen to that and think about that and you can imagine maybe some of the words that were said in the dressing room at half time. Arteta is an intelligent person

practical, inventive, but also emotional manager. You know, he often keeps those emotions channeled in the right way, but you can imagine that there are times when, and I think it seems like, you know, the weight of what's gone on this season sort of

You know how it is when you just get triggered by something suddenly and it's basically the build-up of lots of stuff that's preceded it. Overtired. He's overtired. Well, whatever it was, I think probably none of us imagined that scale of response in the second half because Arsenal had every reason to kind of stay knackered and stay feeling sorry for themselves and they just wanted to get out there. But actually that response was...

so pleasing and I know Arteta was really still feeling that anger afterwards but I think what it says to the players what it says to the supporters what it says to other clubs it would have been predictable to go down three or four and that was the end of that game and everyone would have just said you know that

Wouldn't have been that surprised. But the surprise was that Arsenal found something deep, deep, deep in their reserves of heart, of energy, of mentality to put in a fantastic second half performance. And I think that's really important for not just the remainder of this season, but for next season as well. Adrian, could you see that coming? I mean, I couldn't. I was watching it. I was...

I was slumped, I'll be honest with you, in my seat. I was sitting on my chair and I was slumped. And I try not to slump. You know I do the Pilates. And I try not to slump. And honestly, this was as slumped as I would allow myself to be because I was watching it thinking, I wasn't looking forward to it. Why am I watching this? And we're two nil down after 20 minutes and we're all having a party in the sunshine and I'm hating every second of it.

And I just did not see that second half coming. No, I didn't see it coming. I don't think anyone could call that we'd come back. But I also didn't see it as bad as maybe you guys did or even Mikel did.

because, yeah, of course it was poor. We were poor without the ball. It was like we'd never seen Liverpool play. But I thought the structure of the team was wrong in the first half. I think we were too assertive. We tried to replicate what we did at PSG. We were pressing really high. And let's not forget, we had a lot of joy.

pressing really high Thomas Pante wins it you know three players hesitate that chance goes Saka should score from that free kick we win by being assertive and pushing the back first 15 minutes Liverpool fans weren't happy

But then we lost our heads and they just came at us and at us. And we didn't track runners. Kivior and Saliba were very much all over the place as a partnership. And we were overwhelmed, weren't we? And it's very unusual. I think if you go back to 2021, the last time we sort of had a higher XG against us in a half a football season.

So that's how open we were. But I didn't think it was all bad. I actually, I like the attitude. So Mikel did a couple of things at half time. He swapped a couple of bits. He maybe moved Trollstall to the left. They were talking about it on Sky, Martinelli out the middle. And he also would have said to them that,

Look, stop feeling sorry for yourselves. I know you're tired, but come on. There's 2,500 Arsenal fans there who travel 200 miles on a Sunday to come and watch you. There's millions watching at home. Go and do it for them. And where's your professional pride? And, I mean...

I was so proud of them at the end. Amy, I mean, we talked about this. We had various phone calls. We couldn't talk during the game because you were 15 seconds behind me and it was just weird. You were just like, I can't do this. She said to me, she said, well, commentate on the game. I thought, I can't commentate on a game. This is just odd. So we spoke afterwards. But...

We were both really proud of the way that they responded in the second half after the week they've had to come out there in that second half being 2-0 down at the home of the champions. And then the last, the second half, it was a game, wasn't it? We wanted a win and they wanted a win. I just started having a thought about there was a couple of guys at the Eurostar terminal in Paris the morning after on Thursday morning and one turned around and said, yeah, pretty good.

Tired and emotional, said, see you at Anfield, see you at Anfield. And I was really happy for them. I don't even know who they are, just as a snatch of overheard conversation. But, you know, I think that sometimes you just have to change your mindset and not allow something to happen. And I think that's what this group did. This group of players, to become positive again in the way that they were playing.

to go on the front foot and trust each other and be adventurous and optimistic in the way that they were playing from that position at half-time after the week they've had, the month they've had, the season they've had broadly. I mean, it would have been four consecutive defeats had Arsenal not come back. Exactly. They've just lost three. Just lost three painful games in a week.

And you're 2-0 down at half-time to the champions and they're taking the mick out of you, basically. It takes a lot of you-know-what to pull yourself up off the floor and be optimistic, I think, from that situation. And I suspect once Mikel has calmed down, he will be giving those players a lot of love for what they did, actually. I hope so. I'm sure he will. He does, you know, and it's unusual for him to...

to be sending such a sort of angry message in public. You know, I think it was Jan-Arge Fjortov, the Norwegian ex-player who's on social media a lot and does TV and does lots of Premier League and lots of interviews. And he made a quite good observation about how when managers give, you know, press conferences and this and that, he says that they...

Sometimes they're giving messages to the players. Sometimes they're just giving totally separate messages for the people out there. Sometimes it's even a message for themselves. And they have different messages that they give out in the dressing room and different ones that go out, you know, for the public. And I would bet lots that there's a lot of love this week for those players and for them to be able to find what they found.

That might also end up being a hugely significant point. Mikel Arteta cares about finishing as high up the table, be the best of the rest. He doesn't particularly fancy, oh, as long as we finish in the Champions League.

Every point is worth scrapping for. Every position is worth scrapping for. Every game is worth scrapping for. That's his raison d'etre. That's how he functions. Come see me also! Come see me also! You know you can't see.

When I started podcasting, it felt like I had to figure everything out myself. Booking guests, figuring out rundowns, editing the show and publishing it. It seemed like the list of to-dos got bigger and bigger. And when you're starting off with something new, it seems like that just happens.

We'll be right back.

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They get a humbric off and you can see that they are more free to play. Some of the individual performances, Adrian, Jamie Carragher was talking on Sky about William Saliba and how he's missing his partner, Gabriel. Do you think there's something in that? I mean, I've noticed a little drop-off in his performance the last six weeks. Wouldn't Canarte miss Van Dijk? I'm sure...

No, I don't think he was being particularly critical. I think he was just saying, watching him. And I have to say, much as I hate to agree with Sky Pundits on anything, about anything, I think that in this particular case, there might be something in that. Yeah, I'm less inclined to sort of listen to Jamie or Gary Neville at the moment than before, because I just think they've come out with so much narrative-based nonsense.

this season or a rival in Arsenal. It's ridiculous. But that's a separate, that's a pretty separate podcast. But yeah, Saliba's definitely not looked great lately. He was very wobbly in that first half. I think the back four were left high and dry though. I think that we were exposed by the way that we played. And I don't think we played with our heads in the first half. We tried to be really positive and pin them in. And at times it worked, but

It was such a risky tactic. With Partey, he got dragged wide, he got dragged high. He should defend to midfield. He's got to be in the middle and he wasn't. And they just flew at us for fun. And I think that our defence was in a bit of a daze as well. And Kivior and Saliba were detached from each other. There's not much communication. You saw that with a Gakpo goal. I mean...

I don't know what the pair of them are doing there really and even for the for the other guy it wasn't great so yeah Saliba's definitely had a bit of a dip but I think like I say any centre-back that loses such a quality partner it would impact their game a little bit as well I do think he stepped up initially Saliba and took on a bit more leadership we saw him running with the ball really confidently in the first few weeks but maybe maybe the defeats to Paris Saint-Germain and

A couple of the home ones have sort of just dented his confidence a little bit. It happens. He's still a top player. I absolutely agree with you. And I won't quote Carragher or Neville again, although I do think it's slightly petty and small-minded, if I may say, for you to dismiss them in that way. Gabrielle Martinelli. Amy, one of the things, I was really happy after the game yesterday and we had a little chat and I sort of went off on one about how much I love some of these boys. And Gabrielle Martinelli, who...

some of the fan base because maybe he hasn't got quite the tricks that we hope and he doesn't go past people quite like he maybe did a couple of years ago. But I was watching him running back in the 78th, 79th minute and he was busting a gut. He worked so hard for us. And I like the way he played in the middle of the part. I mean, there's a lot of people been talking about him as a possible centre forward and Mikel Arteta seems not keen on the whole idea. But I thought I like how he drifted into space and

and got his head on the end of that beautiful cross. We might be doing it on the weekend. So we might. We might. Thank you. We might. Yeah. But, you know, Gabby Martinelli, he's one of those players that can frustrate a little bit. But I don't know. I think he did have a rough season. But I also think if Arsenal had a great centre-forward...

The mystery man who will appear by August, one imagines. I'd like to see how many goals and assists Martinini gets when there's a really serious centre-forward around. Because I think actually at times this season, I think he was one of the guys when things were getting really ropey after going out of both of the cups in January and with all the injuries. He really stepped up then.

He showed sort of in his own way by just, you know, sheer heart and running and work rate and having a go. He showed a certain kind of leadership. He took responsibility. I think when really the problems were getting kind of ridiculous for Arsenal. And there were times when he went on a lung-busting run, got himself into a good position, had sent a good ball across and nobody was there. So when you look at his numbers...

I think they could be quite a lot more impressive with different personnel. And I would expect that if he's, you know, I don't know, but I mean, he's one of those guys, I suppose, that depends on all the moves that happen and the moving pieces and jigsaw puzzle of who goes in and who goes out. It's not inconceivable that he or Trossard will be sold to raise some money. I don't know. But if he's still here next year...

I think he could have a great season with the kind of changes that we would expect to be coming into the team and players coming back. A couple of others I want to mention. Martin Erdogan had a shot, Adrian. Did you see it? Very good shot. I think Luca, your son, he should have like a t-shirt made up. I was there when Martin Erdogan had a shot from outside the area. He's had three great shots in the last couple of games.

And they've all been really important. I know, he's remembered how to ping it, hasn't he? It's not a side foot only now. If only he could have remembered how I had the confidence to do that a couple of months ago. But it's great to see it again. It's absolutely vital.

Yeah. And I don't even mind, Adrian, I don't even mind the one at the end when he could have put in Zinchenko. But you know what? Have a go. You're the captain. You're the guy, you're the man, right? You got a sweet left foot, probably the best left foot of the club. So go and take a little pot from 20 yards. You've already had one. You've made one goal. Yeah. Yeah. No, don't blame him for shooting. I think the pass was a better option because of the timing of the run from Zinchenko was excellent and he was in. He could have taken a touch and drilled it. But,

But yeah, I'm not going to have a go at him for having a shot because that's what we've been wanting more from him. Look, Martin Odegaard has to. Martin Odegaard remains a great leader, you know, in terms of his application and the way he presses. You know, we pinned Liverpool into their own half brilliantly in the game for a lot of the game.

and a lot of that is down to Martin and that he didn't hide. He wanted the ball. There was a couple of really good driving runs as well, wasn't there? Driving down the spine of the pitch, slipping players in. So no, it was a really good performance from him. But, you know, the goal tally reads two. And if you play in that position...

That goal tally has to read 10 or above. And then, you know, I know he missed a few games, but not that many. He has to start scoring. Otherwise he'd come under pressure for that position. You might have to accommodate him in a deeper role, for instance. I don't know how, what will happen, but he can't really have another season where he scores twice. And one of them is a penalty and the other one,

was an open goal from a sort of press against Manchester City. It's not good enough, is it? You can't have two seasons in a row playing 10...

with that output. So he has to show Arteta, he has to show everyone that he can provide that goal threat. And in this game, obviously he did. Mikel Mourinho, Amy, I'm starting to really like this guy. I like the way that he was so, how freaked out he was when he lost the ball in that area. And I don't think David Rea helped him with that pass, by the way. And so, you know what? He tried to recover the situation. He dived in, he got sent off.

And it's a learning experience. We'll miss him for Newcastle. But I like his attitude, Amy. Yeah, I think he's grown into someone who takes a big responsibility in the team as well and relishes it. I think he really showed up and they just look like tired challenges. I think both of them, particularly the second one, really tired. But listen to this for a stat, Albino. This one's for you, Adriano, king of stats on this podcast. Mikel Moreno has now scored as many Premier League goals for Arsenal as...

Drumroll. Jack Wilshire, Alex Klebb and Edu. Wow. I mean, it's an almost... Wow. Like, you read it and think, what? That can't be right. But I definitely trust the reader. But...

That's remarkable. I'm amazed you took this long to get to Alexander Kaleb, I'll be honest with you. Really, because the other two I am shocked by. I mean, Wilshere, I mean, yeah, you remember some of Wilshere's goals, don't you? But I didn't realise there were so few of them, really. No, I mean, fair play to him, Adrian Marino. He's doing so well. He's played out of position for most of the time he's been there and yet

he's really established himself I'm a big fan yeah I'm a big fan of sort of his attitude and the responsibilities intelligence he looked a bit laboured in this game at times

sort of got caught on the ball a bit I do think for the second yellow card obviously there's no arguments with the actual foul but he was shoved over by Diogo Jota and that's why he stumbles and that and and obviously he makes that challenge or the two challenges because he's clambering on the floor I think that the whistle should have gone but they were never going to look back at it because it was the second yellow but that that was a bit unfortunate and

But no, he's a bit of a cult hero. I don't know whether he'd qualify for that yet, but he's not your obvious hero. But I think there's a lot to like about Mikel Moreno. He just seems like a really good pro and a really sound person to have in your team. I completely agree. Yeah.

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And just a word for the fullbacks. Ben White making a couple of marauding runs. Nice to see him back doing what he's doing. And Myles Lewis-Skelly just not giving two figs, if I may say, about Mohamed Salah's reputation. Just walking past him and looking at him with disdain. Just the attitude of that kid.

Did well, didn't he? Yeah, because he was on a yellow for a long time. He was outstanding and he made a good run through the middle early in the second half as well. I love what he does. He is going to make mistakes, but God love him. He's ours. Do you know what about the next season? Obviously, this wasn't perfect, but the last two games, more so PSG than this, but we did try and be really positive. I do like us starting these games, bosh, on them, pinning teams in,

owning it in the first 15 minutes and really going at them. And I do think that once we get Gabriel back, once we do maybe get that new central midfielder in, once everyone is fit and available, we've got that spine back. Remember, Gabriel missing, Rice missing, Havertz missing. Once we've got that more of a solid spine and we start games like that, I think we're going to, you'll see a return to Arsenal controlling matches much better. Adrian, I just want to ask you something on Myles.

He came into the team, as we all know, as a midfielder that was converted. And I think that they started that idea and that concept of him working on the conversion in the previous six to 12 months in the 21s or whatever. Do you think if you've spent your entire youth career in a certain position, you know, Myles has grown up and he's a midfield player. That's what he does. That's where he excels.

And I think when he first came in, people probably thought it was reasonably temporary and he was doing a great job of that. And what a fantastic alternative. But you look at it now and you think, who's going to start that position on the first game of next season? Probably Miles. Even though there's still a million left backs, options at Arsenal.

Do you think, what do you think he's thinking? Do you think that it's a bit strange sometimes for a really talented player who's gone through his entire, you know, 10, 12 years of youth football, whatever it is, being very comfortable being something and that's part of your identity. That's what you are. That maybe your career is, you know, maybe never plays midfield. Yeah, it's an interesting one.

I would imagine that he's not giving it too much reflection, in truth, because I think he's just riding this wave. He's just enjoying being there and being part of it. And he's happy to do whatever the manager asks of him. But he must be. Look, playing in this left-back role has got him into the England team. It's the same as Ainsley Maitland-Ars, by the way. He got an England cap, didn't he? But you sensed he was always a bit moody about it.

And he really was, you know, wanting to play his favourite position. If Miles was stuck out on the wing all game, every game, there might be an element of frustration, but he really isn't, is he? Yeah, that's true. He's very involved, isn't he? And I mean, you know, players have to be grown up about it as well. I mean, I remember reading about Freddie Lundberg

And he was a 10. He was 10. He was 10 for Sweden. He was a 10 for his club. And then he came to us and said, Dennis Burke can't play there. He's going to have to play in the wing. And he went, all right. And he learned. And that's the grown-ups. Well, you say he did. He didn't really go all right. At the end of his first season, he had a meeting with his agent and said, I'm not sure about this. And they, you know, he was almost keen to look at other, other things because he wanted to play 10 and it,

It took time. It wasn't an overnight, all right, I'll do what you say and I'll play on the wing and that's that. It took him a little bit, you know, a little bit of, well, quite a bit of time to adjust psychologically as well as to the demands of the new position. Same with Lauren, who wanted to play him in midfield and suddenly found himself as a fullback and he didn't fancy that.

And he had fights with Arsene about it. Not physical fights. You don't fight, Lauren. He was a boxer. But you know what I mean. Maybe there's a certain... Actually, it might actually be slightly harder for established players as opposed to someone like Miles who's just coming through. And he's like, what, first team? Yeah, where do you want me to play?

in goal I've never played there before you'll learn but he's just done great and we're all proud of him he's 1v1 defending he's remarkably good for someone that's not used to the position so yeah he's clearly a very quick learner and that's just another reason why Mikel Artes is going to love him the

The point at Anfield meant that Liverpool haven't beaten us in six league games and Arsenal extended their undefeated run against the big six in the Premier League to 20 games. Big six. The big six. I know. Can I just say? 17th, 16th. I was just thinking the same thing. Okay, fair enough. But anyway. It's still a thing. It's still a record to be pleased with. 746 days, 11 wins,

and nine draws and no defeats in that time. That is...

That is quite impressive, isn't it, Adrian? I mean, putting aside our terrible match tonight in Tottenham Hotspur this year. Let's not put that aside. These are the high-profile matches, the ones that the world watches, and we don't get beat anymore. We haven't been losing them. And, you know, that's because we're a bloody good team. And one other thing, right? Liverpool bought on Diogo Jota, Alexander-Arnold and Alexis McAllister.

We bought on three full-backs, didn't we? We bought on three left-backs, actually. Still couldn't beat us. And we got 10 men and you still couldn't beat us. First time, by the way, 36 matches at Anfield in a row where Liverpool led at half-time, they won at full-time. So, you know, no one really does claw back deficits at Anfield, but we did it and

it and we did it with a patched up team so yeah I think everyone should feel pretty pleased with themselves really. And in his post-match press conference Mikel Arteta was asked whether despite being 15 points behind Liverpool he will take encouragement from the two 2-2 draws against Arnie Slott's side this season. It's about the consistency and the level at the highest level we can compete against any team in the world and we have shown that now for the last two three seasons I think against the top six I think we haven't lost any single game

So that tells you, as a team, we are very, very consistent. We can compete with anybody. But actually to win it and win, win, win, win, win, we're going to need something else apart from availability as well, certain demands and make sure that we don't talk about reaction because I hate that word. So what do you think that something else is that Mikel is referring to?

Could it be that something that Adrian and I have been talking about for around five years? The sort of great big number nine killer shaped hole in the team? I don't know. Look, I think he uses the phrase magic moments a lot, Mikel. And I think, you know, he has been criticised for this team being a little bit

over cautious and not necessarily having those sort those sudden exciting change the course of the you know of the game flip it on its head a magic moment that someone can deliver and whether that comes from i don't think it'll be the center forward i think there will be a new dynamic in the attack and hopefully that will add something that is going to make the difference that's needed

Yeah. Adrian, when me and Amy were talking before the Paris game and we were saying, and Amy was saying out like there was a slight concern about we don't have the same number of game changes that Paris do. And I think that that's sort of what she's talking about there, right? Completely. Just look at

Look, watch it back if you've got time. Watch the PSG game back. Watch the second half at Liverpool. You know, two, arguably the two best teams in Europe, you know, over the course of this season. And in possession, we, and without at times, you know, when we're sort of suffocating them with our pressing game, outplayed them. We outplayed, we were a higher level than Liverpool, obviously.

for most of that game yesterday. They had the breaks. They're unbelievably dangerous on the break. They're brilliant. But, you know, look at the two teams together. Arsenal are a very, very good team. And we showed that against PSG. We showed it against Liverpool. What we don't have is a Salah. We don't have a Dembele. We don't have guys like that. So that is the missing ingredient. We all know it. And once we find those match winners, bring a couple more couple in, then

I just don't think there's much wrong with this team. I genuinely don't. You talk about we'd lost three in a row. I'm not downbeat because I know that this team is really good. I know it is. It just needs something. And well, Mikel said it's the same, didn't he? I didn't mean to paraphrase him there, but it does need, it needs that something else. And we have to make sure we get that something else this summer. We have to.

Have to. And I'm telling you, we'll spend a fair number of podcasts talking about that very thing. Adrian, also a word for Alessia Russo, won the Football Writers Association Player of the Year. I spoke to Art about this a couple of weeks ago. I haven't watched that many of the women's games, but every time I see her, she looks such a handful. And when she holds the ball up, and certainly for that last goal in Lyon, and you can see why she's got this award. It's fitting, I think. I think I'm a big fan. I did vote for her in the football.

writers I voted for Mo Salah I voted for Leslie Russo so I got a win win this year which has not always been the case but I think she deserved it although she didn't win the Arsenal player of the year Mariona Caldente so yeah it could have been either of those two but yeah Russo's a top striker and had a great season was unplayable in the game against Real Madrid just sensational so we got ourselves a good one but again

Arsenal women's team pushed the boat out big style, pushed the budget out and went for the top target. And they got her and look, you know, it's paid off. We pushed and pushed for Declan Rice. That has paid off. He's been sensational. Now it's all about pushing and pushing for the top targets in attack. Probably too. I'd be really, if I could be a fly on the wall, I would just love to know

if there's agreements or differences of opinion on who those players should be between Arteta, Berta, the data people, you know, all the people involved in the decision making. I'd read, how fascinating would that be? You know, are they all absolutely set? Like they were with, you know, Declan Rice, it was Declan and that was all they wanted. Yeah.

at that time. Are they all in agreement? They'd all have ESET, wouldn't they? But I'm not sure he's for sale at this point.

Yeah, so in terms of the target that they're going to be going for, are they all in agreement? Because there's still, you know. There's a few. Maybe not. Well, let's get both then. Let's get a couple. Let's have a song to finish. Amy, what have you got for a song for us? Yeah, I was thinking about the booing situation and, you know, why do people get like that? It's because they love that person and then they feel let down or you love your club and then they let you down.

I've gone for Saint Etienne and Only Love Can Break Your Heart, but I'd like the Masters at Work version, please. All right, Adrian? Yeah, in response to all these people out there abusing me, they won't be listening to this podcast. I would like to choose F*** You by CeeLo Green. Wow, Adrian, you've changed. I know. I've got one on me today. Sorry. I'm not a CeeLo Green.

I mean, I've got a choice, but it hardly seems my point at this point. I'm actually going for Sly and the Family Stone, Family Affair, because that's what it felt like to me. I genuinely felt like I'd ended up at a sort of Liverpool wedding that had all kicked off.

Anyway, that's it for this podcast. Thank you to Amy and Adrian. Thanks to Jay. And thank you for listening. And we'll speak to you in the week. Ta-ra.

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