Arsenal through the generations: Sesko vs Gyokeres
37:00 Share

Did you know that foreign investors are quietly funding lawsuits in American courts through a practice called third-party litigation funding? Shadowy overseas funders are paying to sue American companies in our courts, and they don't pay a dime in U.S. taxes if there is an award or settlement. They profit tax-free from our legal system, while U.S. companies are tied up in court and American families pay the price, to the tune of $5,000 a year. But

But there is a solution. A new proposal before Congress would close this loophole and ensure these foreign investors pay taxes, just like the actual plaintiffs have to.

When you're a forward thinker, the only thing you're afraid of is business as usual.

Workday is the AI platform that transforms the way you manage your people and money today so you can transform tomorrow. Workday, moving business forever forward. I want my

I want my dog to live a long, happy life, maybe even hit 19. So I feed them Ollie. Ollie's fresh and nutritious human grade meals are made to support their health and happiness with protein packed recipes. Dogs go crazy for like beef with sweet potatoes, Turkey with blueberries or lamb with cranberries. Honestly, you might start thinking, dang, my dog eats better than I do. And that's probably true when it comes to Ollie, head to ollie.com slash healthy pup and use code healthy pup to get 60% off your first box of meals. Plus that's,

They offer a clean bowl guarantee on the first box. So if you're not completely satisfied, you'll get your money back. That's O-L-L-I-E dot com slash HealthyPup. And enter code HealthyPup to get 60% off your first box. Feed your forever friend with Ollie. The Athletic FC Podcast Network.

The only way to score is, of course, to play with a hand-break-off. Hello and welcome to this special edition of Hand-Break-Off, where the multi-generational crew have decided to reconvene to see if we can reach the kind of consensus Mikel Arteta and Andrea Burton need on the hot topic of a new striker for Arsenal.

I'm Amy Lawrence, scribbler around these parts, and I'm delighted to be joined once again by our range of Arsenal fans from across the years. Welcome back, Arthur, the Athletics resident team. All right, Arthur? Yeah, hi. Good to have you back. Hello to my good friend and colleague, Art. How are you, Art? I'm all good, thanks. How are you?

Excellent. And lovely to have you back, Richard. I think you'd prefer the word legendary, but I'm going to choose mature supporter. What? You mean lovely that I'm still alive? Lovely in every way. So we thought we'd base this chat around the key dilemma that is keeping Arsenal fans from sleeping soundly. To Sesco or to Jokeres? That is the question.

The drip drip of whispers and hunches, breaking developments about concrete talk, God forbid any talk should be non-concrete, is already getting irritating. So let's see if we can agree on who we would choose if we were Arsenal's new sporting director. Okay, so we're going to just give it a quick outline. It's Victor Giocarez, currently of Sporting Lisbon, or Benjamin Shesko, currently of Leipzig.

They are both great big hulking presences, but they do have some differences. And I think the biggest difference and the most interesting one of all is that you're almost weighing up. Do you want to go for something a bit closer to ready-made, which Gyokuris appears to be having scored tons of goals last season?

A lot more experience or someone with maybe a higher ceiling, but who hasn't quite hit it yet. Those in the know seem to feel that Sesko can become a kind of top two or three striker in the world. So, Arsenal have a bit of money to spend. Where's your money going? I'm going to start with you, Arthur. I think Sesko, just because he's so much younger. And I also think it's a lot harder to score in the Bundesliga than the Portuguese league.

But as well, he's more like, I think he would fit Arsenal better. More like, like a Havertz who could finish better, but Jokered is more like a, sort of be like, I think like Haaland is City maybe. Okay. I must admit, Arfe, you surprise me because as the mum of teenage boys, when we've been having this conversation amongst them and their friends, it seems to me that everybody who's younger,

seems to be going for Yocarez because they like this idea of someone who can is a battering ram it's just going to come in and slam in a load of goals straight away so I'm intrigued that you've gone the other way so original thinking yeah I think it's just even though he's probably better now I don't think he's

that much better, like six years older than him. Rich, so you've seen a lot of Arsenal forwards come and go and not all of them are world class, let's just say. They come very occasionally. Are you more tempted by the idea of someone who has that potential in them, even though this season or next season, I should say, they might not be quite ready? Or do you think that it's a case of Arsenal have got to get

the person who's going to get the most goals next season as quickly as possible, fit in very, very fast. Diokares used to play in England. He's going to have little adaptation problems, I wouldn't have thought. Can you see the pros and cons of both and which way would you lean? My problem is I don't like either for Arsenal at this moment in our lives. I'm sorry. I was bitterly disappointed. I don't want to hark back. Bitterly disappointed that we didn't sign Watkins.

If you consider the opportunities we actually did have against PSG, forget the PSG that played and showed up in the final. Think of the PSG that we played and they beat us and they beat us fair and square, but they beat us with nobody in a position to take the two or three very big chances that we had

over the two legs. And I have a very strong theory that what we need, in fact, I think what Premier clubs in general need are Premier clubs

players. I think there is going to be more and more huge money spent on these guys doing what they're doing in leagues that are nothing like our leagues. And they're going to show up at Man United, Chelsea, and Liverpool, all these places. And I don't think they're going to do what we need. What we need is somebody who sees a goal, shoots, and scores. And we do not have that.

We just don't. Do you accept, though, that given that that's needed, it's the duty of the club to go and find the people that best fit that category? And if these are the best guys that are on the market, do we not go for one of them?

Well, you could argue that Mbwemo is on the market and being linked to Man United. You could have had a Nibbola. Who was the Man United player that just signed for 70 plus? Kenya. Kenya. Okay. I mean, would you have wanted that? Would you have thought they obviously took a view?

They're not in Europe. So they're having to pay so much money to these players who are not incentivized by going to a team who have got any European exposure. At least we can take players straight to the champion where we have performed well.

And tell me about Eze. Well, Eze is a different idea entirely. I know. I get that. I do. We may well come to other positions a bit later on in the conversation. Well, you didn't invite me on to agree or disagree. You invited me on to give you an opinion. And honestly, I'm just so sceptical about these players. I just know what I see week in, week out and what we miss.

And that's kind of where I am. Okay. Art, over to you. Do you have a Chesco Guijares preference? And if so, what is it and why? To start with, I had quite similar feelings to Richard in terms of not feeling strongly about either one, just because the way I had it, I...

I had so many other preferences that I felt like I needed to be convinced of both. Didn't you have one preference? Should we not qualify this art? Is this not everybody's preference? Everybody's preference. Yeah. You'll know who we're talking about here. Yeah. A different Swede. But I think, yeah. So for me, I needed time to really kind of digest the debate and then decide

when watching them, and I mentioned this to Amy the other day, guys, but the thing that kind of drew me one way or the other was it was simply down to the way one of the players moved with the ball. And that was Seska. He just seemed a lot more natural in the way he moved. And it kind of reminded me of our last conversation, all of us together, about what generations we grew up in and the way a centre-forward moves.

I think everyone can probably agree that Arsene Wenger was very particular in the type of forwards he recruited. And I just got more, maybe it's a nostalgia thing, but I just got more of a feel for Sesko in the way that it looked like he played. But that being said, another thought that's been going through my head in recent days is why has it just been narrowed down to these two guys? Are there...

Are there not maybe other opportunities out there that could be just as, I don't know, fruitful seemingly? And I think I mentioned his name in our meeting the other day, Amy, but Ekotike at Frankfurt, the way he moves, the way he travels with the ball, it's just so Arsenal in my head, but it doesn't look like that's the direction of travel. So it's probably not even worth bringing him up. Look, I think...

The whole market is so complex that, you know, I feel slightly nervous we're sitting here having this conversation and that there isn't, that the club haven't supposedly quite made their own decision that they go through these same conversations. Because it feels to me, you know, I don't know this for sure. So maybe they are absolutely clear and have been for some months, but it seems like they've both been

in the conversation for a while now. And I just think that the way, if you can be aggressive in the market early, it's very helpful. And I think if you're one of these two guys and they're both aware that they're in the mix, you want to know you're number one. You want to know you're the man. You want to know that this club just wants you.

And it must be quite a strange thing for them all to be in this weird kind of almost triangle relationship. I love a triangle. Yeah, yeah. I just feel it would be a lot simpler if it was a more straightforward two-way relationship and Arsenal worked out what they wanted and went and got it done as quickly as possible. For what it's worth...

And I don't regard myself as any kind of expert on these two players because I haven't seen enough of them yet. But when you get wind from people who know a lot more and they project that Cesco is one of the guys who can be, in the words of someone, top three in the world in his position, I feel that those opportunities to get better

genuine, outstanding players. You have to grab them. And there's nothing to say that he wouldn't be ready quickly. It's very easy to sit here and say, well, obviously it's going to take two or three years. Well, okay, Thierry Henry in his first season wasn't the Thierry Henry of two or three years later. Van Persie in his first season wasn't the Van Persie of two or three years later. I don't think Arsenal should be afraid of age. I think if someone has got the right criteria,

then you get them, especially if their ceiling is high. Because if you wait around, they go somewhere else. And then if you want to try and get them, they're going to be 150 million and out of sight. Why is it that we never or never recently identify the target, get the negotiation done,

and secure the player before we get into this. The very fact that we have got the time and the knowledge to go through the pros and cons of two players that have been identified. I mean, in any sense of negotiation, this is very weak and bad management. But isn't it a case of the fact that, you know, the sporting director is new?

So the relationship between him and Arteta and everyone else at board level is a new relationship. You've been in business, Richard. I don't know whether that sort of thing is a factor or whether you can just get on with things. It's not rocket science. If you have a decision, a corporate decision, where you are going to commit a large sum of capital

to an asset. What you don't do is advertise to every competitor on the planet, "This is an asset we're thinking of buying," particularly as Tottenham have somebody working for them now. What could be worse for us than him moving in and buying one of these players under our nose? You think it can't happen?

I do, actually. I think it can't happen. I think that's a bad example. I think there are other clubs, but I don't think that's one. Well, have the thought not occurred to you. They've taken this guy on. He probably identified these guys three, two or three years ago. It's probably been in the mix.

Who knows what's going on behind the scenes? If you wake up tomorrow morning and one of them signed for somebody else, well, then the fact is it was badly handled, as it has been for the last five seasons. Come see us, though! Come see us, though! You know you can't see!

When you're a forward thinker, the only thing you're afraid of is business as usual. Workday is the AI platform that transforms the way you manage your people and money today so you can transform tomorrow. Workday, moving business forever forward. BetterHelp Online Therapy bought this 30-second ad to remind you right now, wherever you are, to unclench your chock.

Relax your shoulders. Take a deep breath in and out. Feels better, right? That's 15 seconds of self-care. Imagine what you could do with more. Visit betterhelp.com slash random podcast for 10% off your first month of therapy. No pressure, just help. But for now, just relax.

So you just started using LinkedIn premium. Now what? Well, on your premium company page, you noticed around seven and a half times more page engagement and five times more page views. Well done. And now new clients are messaging you.

All because you're using LinkedIn Premium, which helps you get the business growth you want. Think big, small business. Think big. Start your free trial at linkedin.com slash premium small business. That's linkedin.com slash premium small business. Arthur, do you feel that Arsenal, for their reputation and their sense of themselves, have to have a good summer window because the last two windows, quite rightly, were fairly criticised?

Yeah, I think the one where we got Rice and Habits and Timber was too bad. But I do think we need to definitely improve this summer. And we did so well in the Champions League and we've come second again. We need to just keep building on that. And I think with Giocazzi, he can only make us so good. But with Sesko, he can potentially make us as good as we can be. Art?

Do you think that for someone like Berta, his first big signing or whatever actually matters to who he is and what he's trying to do? Or do you think that we've just got to wait and look at the window in its entirety?

I think for him as an individual, there probably would be a bit of ego attached to it. So that's when you have to have these conversations, whether it's within the club or just us as respective fans having the conversation. Because at the end of the day, whoever comes through the door...

two people are getting either credit or blame for it and it's Mikel Arteta and Andrea Berta and that's whether that's wrong or right that's the way it's going to be so I think I don't think maybe taking time is a bad thing in this situation but what I would also say is that

When you look at past windows, there have been examples where they have identified someone that just got them. So Rice is one, Jesus is another. And I think this summer is probably just, or this year, sorry, it's just a very different situation. I actually wanted to ask Amy, say with Van Persie and Enelka, those two in particular,

How well were they known before they joined Arsenal? Good point. And how much were there many links as well? Because obviously I don't remember. Okay. So I'll start with the furthest back one, which is Anelka. And it was actually an extraordinary transfer.

There was a huge deal in France, which was called l'Affaire Anelka. The Anelka Affair, all over their media, became a big issue because he was 17 at the time when he joined Arsenal. And at that period, at that age, French clubs were not allowed to sign players of that age on professional contracts.

So, Arsenal took advantage of that situation by nipping in, using the connections with Arsene Wenger and all the French things that were going on at the club at the time, and took him basically for free. I think the transfer fee was something around 250,000. It was a nominal fee. And the French entire league, never mind just the club, were fuming because they were angry that their best young talents were being

lured overseas before they'd even played for the first team. And Nelker was a hugely ambitious lad who didn't see a pathway very quickly at Paris Saint-Germain and Arsene Wenger turned around to him and said, you're in, which he was. He played almost immediately and was brilliant almost immediately. He wasn't well known because he was a 17-year-old from Paris who hadn't played in the first team. And you're talking about a slightly different

of globalisation of football because in social media it was much less back in the late 90s than all the access that you have now. And when you think about how much people know about Max Dallman and how many clips they've seen of him and continue to see on a weekly basis,

That sort of thing didn't exist about Anilka. So he didn't come with a reputation other than, like, here's this teenage whiz from France. And Arsene Wenger already had a good reputation for signing young players from France. So people were excited. But beyond that, they didn't know a lot about him. The other thing that you've got to bear in mind about him and about Percy is they both came into...

a squad that was replete with quite a lot of major attacking talent. So Ian Wright was still there when Anelka came. Dennis Bergkamp was there. Mark Overmars was there. There was a lot of very established top attacking talent within the club. And when Van Persie came, even more so, you obviously had Henri there as well, Pires and so on. So he arrived at a club that was one of the best attacks that has been in the history of the club.

entire institution so I think what's different about now is that we're looking for this x-factor missing piece of the jigsaw up front but you know Arsenal aren't creating or scoring quite enough really most people would agree with that and it's it's how much this person he's got to come in and change everything he's got to come and make everybody better rather than coming into

sort of an established great setup and be a young person who can almost take a little bit of time without that same pressure. Neither of them had that pressure to come in and be a game changer. Whoever comes in now has to come in and from minute one of the season be

all eyes will be on can they be the missing link of the jigsaw? Can this person unlock even more from Saka or Martinelli or Havertz and the winger that also might come in? So I think there's a different kind of pressure there. Do you reckon that pressure might, I don't know how well you can kind of get a, I guess, a feel for how someone would deal with that?

But I don't know, character as well is probably a big thing. Character's massive and that's where the club will have done their homework. And I think when you look at the way Diokarez carries himself, he looks like he's got badger confidence and he won't be intimidated by that kind of situation. Now that might be different if he's not scoring goals and the pressure's on. And we have to remember when you look at the statistics,

19 of his goals last season were penalties. 21 of his non-penalty goals came against bottom half teams. Is he a flat-track bully? Would he even be taking penalties? These are factors. So yeah, he scored 54 goals in 52 games and that's amazing. But whether that translates to being as dominant and as effective in the Premier League, going back to your point, Rich...

Whoever it is, it's gamble territory. There is no guarantee. So how expensive is the gamble and who are they going to go for? Do you think there's a financial point that they can't go beyond for this player? Arthur, do you think that they've got to share the money around and fill a few different gaps? Or do you want them to spend as big as they can to get the best possible forward?

I think they're both about the same price and they seem like the only two we're going to get. But I think we do need to still fill some more positions. Like we need to get Zub Mendy in, maybe a new left winger as well. And just some more squad depth as well. Because our bench has been...

fairly poor at times well I think is it you Art who says that you're always haunted by the bench at Paris Saint Germain was it you who said that or someone else I think yeah when you look back to that it was the home leg in particular just I think over half of the bench was under 21 players

And if you're in a Champions League semi-final, that just can't be the case. And when you look at next season and an area for improvement, if you're at the same stage and you have maybe Mikel Moreno and Kai Havertz on the bench instead, you're in a much better position, I'd imagine, anyway. Quick one, going to go around everybody. James McNicholas, our good friend,

seems to have a hunch that whoever Arsenal sign, the centre forward who's going to start the season for Arsenal is Kai Havertz.

How would you feel if it's Havertz that starts and not the mystery new guy? I think I know where we're going with this, Rich. We'll start where you are and then Arthur and then come to you, Rich. It would feel weird just because especially with so much expectation on a striker being the new shiny toy, if we want to call it that, you expect them to be starting come day one. But I...

I wouldn't be throwing my toys out the pram because I think when you look at Havertz, massive improvement on his first season and I'd expect at least this to be his base level now and I've grown to trust him more than I did when he first came. So I wouldn't be overly angry because I feel like there'd be so much football for both strikers and then Gabriel Jesus when he's back fit.

to play as well. Richard, I'm going to come to you. Are you, are you, if, if, if Haberts shares the striking responsibilities with the new player, is that okay with you? So what you're saying, it's either Haberts or a new striker. There is no rule. Not necessarily because Haberts can play a bit further, further behind. A, he wasn't signed with the strikers.

And B, I don't think he is a striker. So the fact that we put him in a role to which he's patently not suited and which, you know, he didn't manage to get to double figures, nor did anybody else for the first time in how many years, Amy? 70s? A hundred years. Yeah, a hundred years. Can we just, you know, I think what we're doing is we're going into this kind of fantasy thing about when we've got this one and when we've got,

Guys, I mean, even the mention of rice, we all knew that we wanted rice. It still took us forever at which point Man City interfered. No, is that not what happened? Yeah. If I remember right. Look, you're not wrong. And I think that, you know,

It's difficult because right now as we speak, you're looking around and you see Liverpool choose a player and they get him. Or some other clubs are being active and Arsenal are a little slower off the mark. If I'm one of these two players,

I'm assuming that I'm in the market, there is a price for me, and I have options. And Arsenal have been fapping around. We know about Arsenal. And I've got an agent, and my agent's saying to me, just a matter of interest, because I still don't have a bid for Arsenal. I've had a lot of conversations, but I have not got a bid. I'm the old fax machine. It's completely silent. And Amy, don't tell me that this is the right way of doing business.

especially when no one's mentioning Matoa, who should be top of every list. And you and I both know that one of those premier experienced strikers could come in and do stuff for us at half the price.

I don't know about half the part. I think Brighton drive a pretty hard bargain. I'm not saying Matoma would come in as a centre forward, not in a million years. But what I'm saying is maybe you've got to look at this team. Eze, everybody says to me, well, you've got a problem because Eze is playing in the same role as... Odegaard. Good, good. As Matthew said to me last night, what a business to bring somebody in to compete with a player who seems to have flatlined a little bit.

other than, what was it, a couple of shots at the end of the season. There's more going on. My point is, there's more going on than one striker who will come in to save the day. There needs to be a lot going on. There needs to be a lot. And that, I'm not seeing that. Okay. At the end of all that, I feel like we've got absolutely nowhere in establishing whether Shasko or Giocares' first choice amongst our little group. Maybe Shasko. I think, yeah. Let's see.

When you're a forward thinker, the only thing you're afraid of is business as usual. Workday is the AI platform that transforms the way you manage your people and money today so you can transform tomorrow. Workday, moving business forever forward. So, you just started using LinkedIn Premium. Now what? Well, on your Premium company page, you noticed...

Around seven and a half times more page engagement and five times more page views. Well done. And now new clients are messaging you all because you're using LinkedIn premium, which helps you get the business growth you want. Think big, small business. Think big. Start your free trial at LinkedIn.com slash premium small business. That's LinkedIn.com slash premium small business.

I want my dog to live a long, happy life, maybe even hit 19. So I feed them Ollie. Ollie's fresh and nutritious human-grade meals are made to support their health and happiness with protein-packed recipes dogs go crazy for, like beef with sweet potatoes, turkey with blueberries, or lamb with cranberries. Honestly, you might start thinking, dang, my dog eats better than I do. And that's probably true when it comes to Ollie. Head to ollie.com slash healthy pup and use code healthy pup to get 60% off your first box of meals.

Plus, they offer a clean bowl guarantee on the first box. So if you're not completely satisfied, you'll get your money back. That's O-L-L-I-E dot com slash HealthyPup. And enter code HealthyPup to get 60% off your first box. Feed your forever friend with Oli.

Just a couple of other things. Let's just talking a little bit generally about transfers and how the reporting around them has sort of changed over the years and how invested people are and who Arsenal are interested in signing and all the gossip and the rumours and who you listen to and who's talking trash and et cetera, et cetera. I'm assuming, Art, that like Arthur, that you're both, you know, very keyed in on social media with what's going on all the time. Richard?

Do you spend a lot of, you know, are you particularly taken in by following the transfer stuff? Or, you know, I mean, I find it tiresome and I would just like someone to give me a prod when something's actually done rather than, you know, every twist and turn being analysed to death. Do you find these summers engaging or...

Would you rather switch off? What you've got to remember is in our little but very tight-knit group of four, there's only one of us who gets up in the morning, picks up physical newsprint from the doorstep, goes to the breakfast table and spends...

I won't say how long, turning pages and looking at all the information that is printed and written. And that, to be fair, is 90% of where I get my information from. And the rest will come usually from family members

and various other people. But I know I'm not getting a barrage of this, you know, 18 weeks, four days, three hours, and nine minutes before whatever. I'm not doing that. I'm kind of, I never did. And I don't feel any of the worse off for it. Art, I mean, personally, I...

Yeah, you know, because we were working in this environment. I'm so happy to kind of run a mile and hide when it's the transfer stuff. But I think you have to do a bit of it. How do you find it from a work perspective? Yeah, from a work perspective, I think I'm pretty similar to you in the fact that I don't care for all the minute by minute blow by blow kind of stuff.

Where I kick into gear most of the time is, okay, if it is happening, how's this player going to fit in? And then that's when I kind of kick in. But yeah, for...

To be fair, I mean, as time's gone on and the more time I've spent working in the industry, I think the less time I spend on social media. I think anyone who's followed me on Twitter has probably noticed that I spend so little time on there compared to years ago. And that's just because I can't be asked for all the noise that comes with it. So yeah, I'm...

I'm quite calm with it, I'd say. And I think this summer I've found some other things to keep me occupied.

Yeah, well done. I think as long as, until there's a plane being tracked somewhere, I'm really not interested. That's the only point at which it gets interesting. We're just going to do one last sort of summing up question to do with throwing forward to next season. And I guess, you know, we spoke a lot about Mikel Arteta when we last all got together.

having ended the season without a trophy, second in the Premier League for the third time. Would your support of Arteta's position change if he doesn't win one of the big two trophies next season? I'm not talking about FA Cup or Carabao Cup. Possibly.

And that possibly stems from, again, the conversation we asked for had first time round where I was a bit lost, should we call it, in terms of what Arsenal was meaning in the way that they played. And one thing that's, it's not my phrase, so I won't take credit for it. But one thing that's come across social media again in the last few days is the, how

hashtag make Arsenal French again which um which all those feelings kind of just hark back to what we were speaking about in terms of the type of players that were being recruited and the football that allowed Arsenal to play and I just have a yearning for that again and the longer Arsenal go without getting over the line the stronger that yearning gets but

Hopefully, there's actually a happy ending that season. Rich? I think what's interesting, again, is that

To an extent, it doesn't matter kind of what we think. I mean, we support Arsenal. And the reason we support Arsenal is because they're not kind of the same as most clubs. And you know that they're not going to do anything about Arteta. They're just not. It's not in their DNA. Amy, is that a reasonable point? Absolutely fair point. They are making money.

They are in the Champions League. They are performing at a very high level in the competition that matters the most, or certainly matters the most, day in, day out. And do I think they're going to win the Premier League next year? Even win big signings? I don't have the sense that a couple of great signings will make that big a difference. No.

And maybe that's something you can put at Arteta's door. Arteta is very personable. I enjoy looking at him. I feel love for him. But I don't have a lot of hope in terms of us breaking through like we did the last time that we were second three times running. And you know what happened in the fourth year. Exactly. So unless we all believe there's a dub around the corner for it.

You know, the jury's out. Arthur, up for a double? Yeah. Even if we don't win anything next year, I feel like he's still, like I said last time, he's just taking us so much further than we used to be. But I feel like it depends how much we spend this summer because if we get three really good players...

and still can't win the double or the Carabao Cup or an FA Cup. I don't think I wanted to go, but I think I might start leaning that way. Okay. I mean, our personal view is, you know, everyone wants these two big trophies, but there are sort of...

half a dozen minimum teams in each competition that think the same way. So there's always going to be five or six very disappointed teams in the Premier League and maybe seven or eight in the Champions League. And if those people sort of regarded it as failure and sat their manager every time, then that just doesn't make much sense. I think we have to be aware that the number of prizes available is

up against the number of teams who think they have a chance at those prizes. I mean, it's a ridiculous thing to say you have to do that or you failed. I think as long as you feel hopeful, as long as you feel positive, as long as you feel the club is going in a good direction, as long as you feel affection for the people who are running it and who are playing it. And I think that's like what you said, Arthur. Yeah.

just it's such a pleasure to go and support the team and really like them because it wasn't that long ago it didn't necessarily feel that way yeah and that's you know that's something to be grateful for right I think it's been brilliant to have this chat I hope everybody enjoys an Arsenal free summer I don't know whether you're counting the days or enjoying the break

As usual, before we go, we'll leave Handbrake Off with a song. So have we all got a song available? I'm going to start with you. Sorry. You haven't done a song. Sorry, my head's been all over the place. Arthur, do you have a song that you want to throw into the mix? I wasn't aware of the tradition. Oh, okay. I will let you off. Thank you. But next time, try and come up with a little musical interlude that sums up your Arsenal vibe.

Richard, do you have a song for us? Well, I've been thinking what I think we should go out with appropriately is I Can See Clearly Now by Johnny Nash. I think it's very appropriate based on this highly confusing conversation that we all have. I can see clearly now.

Perfect. I can't beat that, but I will share what I was going to contribute. And so I went down a rabbit hole of Slovenian music in honour of Benjamin Cesco this afternoon and found quite a good playlist, actually, called Slovenian Electronic Music. And there was a song by DJ Inez and Sonny Sun, who I believe is from Ljubljana, called Dragonaught.

And that felt somehow, I don't know, I'd like my striker to feel like Dragonaught feels big and strong and scary. So, yeah, I'm going to go for that one. You happen to have a table there that you can press play.

No, but it will be on the podcast, thanks to Producer Jay. And I will send you a link, Rich, because I know that you'll be glad to hear it. So why did you ask us if you were going to make the choice anyway? No, I don't. Everybody's music will be on. We're an open... Listen, we have to listen to Adrian Clarke's music on most of the other podcasts, and that's a challenge.

Okay, so next time, before we go online, before we actually do this, Arthur and Art, you guys have got to choose. No, yeah, yeah. Usually I've got my song, but today I've just been all over the place. We will get together, no doubt, next season at some point. It's been an absolute pleasure to get everyone back together. Thank you so much for joining us, Arthur, Art, Richard and producer Jay.

When it's the NWSL season, I'm locked in. I'm streaming matches on Prime Video, breaking down plays in real time, and queuing up hype tracks on Amazon Music. Amazon Prime helps me stay ready, whether it's fast delivery for last-minute watch party snacks or digging into behind-the-scenes content between games. For me, following the league isn't a hobby. It's a full-time passion. Whatever you're into, it's on Prime.

Visit amazon.com forward slash prime to get more out of whatever you're into.

But

But there is a solution. A new proposal before Congress would close this loophole and ensure these foreign investors pay taxes, just like the actual plaintiffs have to. It's a common sense move that discourages frivolous and abusive lawsuits and redirects resources back into American jobs, innovation, and growth. Only President Trump and congressional Republicans can deliver this win for America.

and hold these foreign investors accountable. Contact your lawmakers today and demand they take a stand to end foreign-funded litigation abuse. You know that feeling when a girl who gets it gives you a genuine compliment? Suddenly, you're strutting through the streets, sending motivational voice notes to the group chat, manifesting a new man. That's the Tresemme LaMeller Gloss Effect, babe.

It's an unstoppable kind of confidence reserved only for the real girls' girls. And now we've bottled it. We're talking shampoo, conditioner, leave-in cream, shine spray, and a finishing oil that's seriously too glossy to gatekeep. 72 hours of salon-level shine? That's gloss that gives, girl. And it's available everywhere. So go out there, get glossy, and give gloss with Tresemme's new LaMeller Gloss Collection.