Arsenal's adaptability, misconduct charge & record revenue
45:01 Share

Save on Cox Internet when you add Cox Mobile and get fiber-powered internet at home and unbeatable 5G reliability on the go. So whether you're playing a game at home or attending one live, you can do more without spending more. Learn how to save at cox.com slash internet. Cox Internet is connected to the premises via coaxial cable. Cox Mobile runs on the network with unbeatable 5G reliability as measured by UCLA LLC in the U.S. to age 2023. Results may vary, not an endorsement. Other restrictions apply.

With President's Day savings at The Home Depot, you can get up to 35% off select appliances like LG. Plus, save up to an extra $450 on select appliances. And with customizable kitchen packages, we make it easy to shop and swap for the features you want. Like the three-door French door refrigerator with slow-melting round craft ice. Shop President's Day savings and get up to 35% off select appliances like LG, America's most reliable line of appliances.

The Home Depot. How doers get more done. America's most reliable line of appliances per independent study. See store online for details. Minimum purchase required.

Some people just know they could save hundreds on car insurance by checking Allstate first. Like, you know, to check the Jumbotron first before attempting to eat a stack of Supreme Nachos in one bite. Now you're just a meme that everyone shares on game day. Checking first is smart, so check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Savings vary subject to terms, conditions, and availability. Allstate Fire and Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. The Athletic FC Podcast Network.

The only way to score is, of course, to play with a hand break off. Hello, I'm Ian Stone and this is Hand Break Off, the Arsenal podcast brought to you by The Athletic. Quite a week for the Arsenal, preparing for their Premier League match at home to West Ham on Saturday to talk all things Arsenal.

About the Arsenal and look ahead to that game. I'm joined by Adrian Clarke and James McNicholas. Morning. Morning here. Hello. Morning. Nice to see you guys. As we know, earlier this week, Arsenal were fined, was it 65k, wasn't it, by the FA for failing to control their players.

even as I read it, I was thinking it's ridiculous. After Miles Lewis Skelly was sent off during their Premier League win at Wolves, even though the decision was incorrect and was later overturned. Have you ever been punished for something you were wrongfully accused of doing? What was it? What was the punishment? Did the person handing out the punishment double down or be wrong and strong? Adrian, ever happened to you or ever done it yourself? Well,

Well, I was trying to think of it from a football perspective. And yeah, there's one incident that kind of springs to mind. I kind of did something wrong, but not enough in my opinion. But there you go. So yeah, I was playing Boston United in the National League back in the day. And they were managed by Steve Evans. You might know Steve Evans. He's that sort of rotund guy.

Really, of a manager that has made a habit of basically haranguing refs and opposition players down the years. You know, he's in charge of Rotherham at the moment. I don't like him. I'm getting that. I'm getting that. There's a sense that we're getting. Anyway, in this game, there was a little bit of a melee on the floor and I was on the floor with the ball sort of between my feet and it was a few players crowded. And then this guy, aptly named Jim Dick, stamped on my shin, tried to break my leg.

He didn't, he just got the shin pad. But I saw red, saw the red mist. So I got up and I shoved him. But I shoved him, I would say, between...

chest I was saying the middle of the chest you know lower to middle of the chest nowhere near his face shoved him and of course he's gone rolling over Evans is on the pitch ref did you see that he's hit him he's hit him and I think the ref thought I'd hit him which I hadn't and I got a straight red and

And I thought, you know, I was gutted and I thought it's a bit harsh because I've seen loads of players since get yellows for shoving. I thought, you know, the manager's going to back me up here. No, absolutely not. I think the club saw an opportunity to claw back two weeks wages. This was at Stevenage. And they took that opportunity and there was no sympathy whatsoever. Actually, I think there was deliberately no sympathy shown because they wanted to fine Stevenage.

And yeah, two weeks wages went out and I felt incredibly hard done. But he tried to snap my leg in too. And I only shoved him. But it fell on deaf ears. And yeah, I just had to take on the chin and I never, never did it again. So it was a, it was a lesson learned. Kids, if you're listening, life's not fair, right? I mean, it's just not, is it? To be fair. So to be not fair. James, what about you?

I wish I had as good a football story as that. I don't. The closest thing I could think of in terms of being accused of something I didn't do. My wife recently accused me of watching ahead in severance when I hadn't. And she was like, but it says on the Apple TV that you've watched it. And basically it was sort of a whodunit effectively. Turned out that she had logged in on her mum's TV.

and her parents were the guilty party. So I managed to escape censure. But I mean, it was a very serious accusation that was leveled at me at the time. Because I said I'd been at home working, you know, and then she came home and was like, it looks like you've been watching our favourite TV programme together. So there you go. Really?

Relationships have broken up for less than that. I'm lucky to still be in the marriage, frankly. That feels very tense. My wife will just watch her head anyway and then just not... Only tell me afterwards that she's had. Right, yeah. She just can't wait sometimes, yeah. I... In terms of being punished for stuff I haven't done, no, not really. But I did...

I don't know if I've ever told you when my son was at school, in primary school, there was a little kid there who was a terrible kid, really, and really a bad boy. Just always starting on my son and always being a bit horrible. So me and my son were playing football in the playground and he wandered across on purpose, I felt. So I whacked the ball right in his face. LAUGHTER

I mean, it was one of those balls. It would have shocked him more than hurt him, but it hit him. It whacked him right in the face, and he was so annoyed. And what was brilliant was his mother made him apologise to me for getting in the way. And he's looking at me going, you did that on purpose. And I'm like, I did, you little s***. There's nothing you can do about it, is there? And his mum saying, you've got to apologise to Mr Stone. Oh, man, it was really one of the greatest moments of my life. It really was.

Anyway, that kid grew up to be Boris Johnson. So there you go. That was the first name I could... Should have been Donald Trump to be more topical. But anyway, as we mentioned, 65 grand.

For failing to control their players, Arsenal got fined. The FA charged Arsenal with failing to ensure their players did not behave in a... No, it says did not behave in an improper manner. Should be did not behave in a proper manner. At Molineux on January the 25th. This came after the red card has been overturned. It was an incorrect decision. I mean, we have been talking about this for a while. This was a few days ago. James, it

I mean, it's like the pettiest thing I've ever heard, isn't it? Yeah, it is. I mean, the only comfort I take from it is that I sort of think certainly the players won't care two hoots, I shouldn't think. It's a technicality, isn't it? It's like, yeah, they were probably did behave in the appropriate manner, but they had absolute justification and vindication in it. So,

Yeah, it's a pain, but not one I'm going to allow to ruin my week. No, I'm fine with it as well, to be honest with you. I'm not up thinking about it. I mean, Robbie, our producer said, have you seen the clip of Howard Webb talking about the decision on RefWatch? I would rather stick needles in my eyes than watch Howard Webb on RefWatch. I mean, Adrian, why would you? Yeah, I have. I watched it this morning. I got access to it, and then...

I mean, Michael Owen's just as bad in the clip, to be honest, because he's desperate to sort of say, oh, you know, it could have been a red doe, couldn't it? I thought it was a yellow bee. It could have been a red doe. The more I look at it, it did wind me up a little bit. I mean, I just don't like the programme, full stop. I do think it inflames situations and I do think it causes more problems than it solves, really. So, yeah, looking at the footage...

of the VAR and this is the key thing here because the VAR I think is the most culpable over the mistake

and I think it's Darren England, that basically they don't really even look at it in full speed. They don't look at it in full speed and see that it's just a trip. They're so determined to back up Michael Oliver's call that, you know, it's all about pausing it at the moment where his foot was up and, you know, it looks like he's studded him in the Achilles. And on that basis, they go check complete. But really, you've got to look at the bigger picture. And that's what they obviously decided in the end.

the panel, that really that was just a very, very split second and that really it just grazed the guy and there was no harm done. There was absolutely no brutality or force with the tackle. It was never, ever red card. And, you know, for them to suggest that it wasn't an outrageously bad decision shocked me, really. Actually, it didn't shock me. It didn't shock me at all. But it shocks me on a wider scale because I think that that clearly shows

Most people who watch football believe that is a yellow card all day long and they should just have said that and moved on in my opinion. Yeah, I mean I say I think there's a wider discussion about whether a TV, is it a TV show, ref watch should even actually exist because who the hell cares really? Why is anybody watching that?

And as for Michael Oliver, actually, I had some Liverpool mates moaning on social media the other day about the decision in the Merseyside derby when they thought there should have been various decisions. Arsenal fans going, mate, we knew what Michael Oliver was like.

years before this. It's not the first time we've seen him make terrible decisions. And I've said this on this podcast before, but I genuinely would have found the money down the back of a sofa, taken it in change, and then just dropped it on their desk. So we can't bother the cat. It should be about 65 grand there. Now...

off right and that's the end of it right because honestly uh anyway let's never speak of that again till the next awful decision we get um tommy and his uh knee surgery i'm really sad about tommy um he's begun rehab uh he said an instagram it's been the toughest period of my career for sure and it carries on a bit more but i won't give up thank you for all support and see you again soon

We've missed him, I think. Certainly, there's been parts of the season when we've been lacking a bit right back. And it would have been so handy to have him there, Adrian. I mean, his contract runs out at the end of 2026. So basically, he's going to be coming back into the team in his last season.

I mean, I guess we sort of wait and see how it looks when he comes back in. But I really, I really like his defending. And in those last 10, 15 minutes, when he's playing as a sort of third centre half and they're dropping balls into the area, there's nobody I like there more than him. Yeah, it's a real shame. It's an awful luck for him. Yeah, we've got to stand by him, haven't we? It's not his fault that he's got injured. You know, you've got to look after players when they suffer issues like this.

So, you know, we'll stand by him. But the thing is, like all players that are out a lot, there's that feeling you can't really sort of bank on them. You kind of almost have to count him as a bonus player probably moving forwards for next year. So, you know, if he's fit and available, fantastic. If not, we need to be covered. You know, we've got White and Timber there, haven't we? But, you know, it'd be interesting to see, you know, I think maybe a central defender.

Yeah, I mean, really,

Robbie, our producer, has written, some corners of the internet are reporting that his rehab will probably last until the end of the year. I mean, this is obviously a complex issue, James. He's been in and out for quite some time, mainly out. But if it's to the end of the year, I mean, what do we get? Six months out of him and then we have to make a decision. It's a really delicate one with his injury because...

It's not been something that's prohibited him moving or running and they could have potentially pushed him to come back. The problem was they felt that the risk of recurrence and the risk of something serious happening that could really

impede him in the remainder of his career was quite significant. So they've decided to take a more long-term approach to go the surgical route, to try and repair the issue and be patient with him. And credit to the club because what they're doing here is looking after the player's long-term future. You know, they did the same with Moe Olneni, didn't they? When he was going out of contract and they actually extended his contract in order to give him that bit of security and protection and see him through his rehab. Tommy Asu has got that extra year.

I think if you take the emotion out of it and you take my affection for the player out of it, for the club, it's probably a bit of a blow because Tommy Asu, Gabriel Jesus, they might have been players sort of on the fringes of the squad who they might have thought about selling in the summer to bring in some money and create a bit of turnover in the squad. That's now not going to be an option for either of those players. So,

There could be some impact on our sort of transfer plans in that respect. But yeah, I just wish him all the best and hope we see him back playing soon. He would have played a lot of football this season, the way it's gone. We might not have seen Myles Lewis-Skelly emerge as he did, frankly, because we know Arteta likes Tommy Asu as a left back as well. But yeah,

Yeah, he's a really good footballer and I hope we can see him playing soon before too long. Yeah, I do remember him playing as a left-back and basically marking Mo Salah out of the game in a game against Liverpool a few years ago. And we know how good he is and we wish him all the best. Come see the Arsenal! Come see the Arsenal! You only come see!

Your data is like gold to hackers. They're selling your passwords, bank details, and private messages. McAfee helps stop them. SecureVPN keeps your online activity private. AI-powered text scam detector spots phishing attempts instantly. And with award-winning antivirus, you get top-tier hacker protection. Plus, you'll get up to $2 million in identity theft coverage, all for just $39.99 for your first year. Visit McAfee.com. Cancel any time. Terms apply.

When you need mealtime inspiration, it's worth shopping Fries for thousands of appetizing ingredients that inspire countless mouth-watering meals. And no matter what tasty choice you make, you'll enjoy our everyday low prices. Plus, extra ways to save, like digital coupons worth over $600 each week and up to $1 off per gallon at the pump with points. So you can get big flavors and big savings. Fries, fresh for everyone. Fuel restrictions apply.

Um, I think I just won my taxes. Yeah? I just switched to H&R Block in about one minute. All I had to do was drag and drop last year's return into H&R Block, and bam, my information is automatically there. So I don't have to go digging around for all my old papers to switch? Nope. Sounds like we just leveled up our tax game. Switching to H&R Block is easy. Just drag and drop your last return. It's better with Block.

I wanted to talk this week about adaptability and versatility. I mean, James, it's what Mikel Arteta wants from all his players, really. He wants players who can play in a number of different positions and it's been more required than ever this year. Yeah, and that's kind of an evolution, I think, in some respects of his squad and his recruitment. If you think about his first transfer window,

He spoke a lot about specificity. You know, he needed very specific players for very specific roles. He brought in Cedric because they really needed a fullback. He brought in Pablo Marie because they really needed a left-sided centre-half. And I feel like as he's gone on and as the group has evolved, he's recruiting more for attributes at this point in time, for skill sets that players have. And it's less about

their starting position necessarily and more about the sort of technical and physical assets that they bring to the team. And when you look at the recent signings, Kai Havertz, Shurian Timber, Declan Rice, there's probably debate about all of their best positions. And now we see Myles Lewis-Skelly and Ethan Ranieri come through and the fans are still having the same debate. You know, what's going to be their long-term best position?

And I think that probably is indicative of what Arteta wants. He wants players who bring that degree of flexibility and unpredictability to his selections. Adrian, I mean, when you came through, this just...

It just wasn't a thing, was it, in the same way? I mean, did you play a number of positions or were you always out wide? Yeah, I was probably a little bit different because I was kind of two-footed. So they could put me on the left wing or the right wing. And they often played me as a striker in the two. Basically, I could have played any of the positions, the three behind the main striker, basically. That was my...

Yeah, I had the skill set. But that was unusual, wasn't it, really? Yeah, probably. Yeah, there's definitely less rotation. And you were a left-back, you were a centre midfielder. Yeah, there was less movement, I think, around. And yet they say that positions are so much more specific in a lot of ways now, you know, in terms of what you have to do as a wing-back or what you have to do as centre-half, centre-back.

I think there's more instruction. Everything's a bit deeper now. You know, it's on a deeper level and you've got more information about what you need to do and what your opponent does, etc. And yeah, it's just, it is very different. But I agree with James completely. I think they recruit on attributes now. If you look at Arsenal during the course of any match,

you know players are popping up here there and everywhere you know Timber for example the other day was often sort of almost around the Erdegaard position you know in the number 10 role on the right so you've got to have these adaptable players multifunctional players I don't think it's just Arteta to be honest I think he's more into it than most

But it's just that it's more of a modern phenomenon. I look at the whole team and really, I can't think of an outfield player that I wouldn't be comfortable switching. You know, even Saliba could go and do a job at right back. Yeah, they could do a job at right back. Gabriel's played left back.

Forrest. You know, when that weird time, was it where Kivial was inside him or something? I'm sure I've seen him at left back. He could do it and Sliva could do right back. I think it's really only David Rye that couldn't play in different positions. Look at the two kids that have come through. Goodness me. You can get more multifunctional than Lewis Skelly and Wan-Eri. Wan-Eri can play anywhere. Anywhere. I mean, any of the three midfield positions, any of the three forward positions. Lewis Skelly...

I think he could as well. Like, I mean, where couldn't he play? Probably up front. But, you know, it's just the way footballers have developed these days. I think it really, really is important for us as a team because we are about movement and fluidity. You know, we want players to interchange positions, to drag stubborn opponents down.

out of position. And to do that, you've got to have players that will move into areas where they're comfortable. And that's why it works. Before we came on air, we were talking about Real Madrid last night. Their front four pretty much go anywhere anyway. So...

very much looking forward to meeting them in the final I don't want to play them over two legs well yeah we've got to get bottom half of the draw then so you know that's how it is now so top half of the draw is pretty much guaranteed to be Real Madrid Atletico or Leverkusen the other side if you get in the bottom half it's Bayern again or Atletico Leverkusen watching Bayern the other night by the way I didn't think they were all that I mean obviously they're still a huge team but I don't think they're as good as they were

last season or the last few years. And in terms of Marino, we talked about him after Leicester. I mean, Adrian, you want to see him starting up top for the foreseeable future?

James, do you agree? Yeah, I think so. I mean, I say foreseeable. I mean, like next game and then we'll see how it goes. Yeah. Well, yeah, absolutely. And we are in a process of sort of experimentation. But I think that's definitely worth a go from the start. For me, it's obviously he had the goal threat and the finishes were great. But I'm sure you talked about this on Monday, but his hold-up play, you know, as soon as he came on the pitch, his ability to link the play and do the simple things, really, that you want from a centre forward. I think Arsenal are really accustomed to

to playing with that kind of striker at this point in time and it allows us to lean on some of our patterns of play that we've established. I also think

the set-piece threat. That's been a really important weapon for Arsenal this season. I think offensively and defensively, he's a big add at set-pieces and replaces Kai Havertz directly in that respect. So I would go for Mourinho from the start at the expense of Sterling. Maybe that takes the pressure off Sterling a little bit as well. You know, if he can come on in the last 20 minutes of a game, he might find it easier to make an impact and build some confidence. Let's hope so anyway. That's what I would do. And

Yeah, fascinating, isn't it? To see Marino speaking about flexibility and attributes, adding another string to his bow he'd never played up front.

really before the weekend and he might be starting a Premier League game there for Arsenal next week. Not since he was eight, you said. By the way, when you're talking about Raheem Sterling maybe making it easier for him, I just got a sort of vague hint of Francis Jeffers about the whole thing to be honest with you. Just trying to make it as cool for him as possible, trying to lay balls on a plate for him. Alright, let's talk more about West Ham in a short while.

Hey, it's Noah Chestnut from The Athletic. If you're into games and sports, pay attention. I'm going to give you four sports terms. You tell me the common thread. Ready? Axel. Lube.

That's axle, loop, lutz, sow cow. This one's like medium hard. The answer is figure skating jumps. Now, what if I gave you 16 different terms and you figure out how they come together into four different groups? If you're up for the challenge, you'll want to check out Connections Sports Edition. It's a new daily game for sports fans.

There'll be some that are going to stump you, some that make you laugh, and some that remind you when you were a kid watching sports for the first time. Connections Sports Edition. To play today's puzzle, go to theathletic.com slash connections.

They get a handbrake off and you can see that they are more free to play. Ian Stone, James McNicholas and Adrian Clarke here on the Athletics Arsenal podcast Handbrake Off. Record revenue for the Arsenal. We bought in £616.6 million a

in 2024, an increase from 466.7% in 2023, a 32% increase. We're also paying way more in wages as well. James, is there any more details about this? Does it mean we're doing well? This is about Champions League, isn't it, mainly? Yeah, I think that is the headline, really, is the impact the Champions League has

has made on our finances. Huge. Commercials up, but yeah, Champions League is incredibly lucrative for the club. And actually a lot of the money that's been spent has been to restore those Champions League revenues, which is so important to the owners and to the club keeping ticking over. I mean, this set of financial results, which is obviously a year out of date effectively at this point,

The headline is we're bringing in a lot of money and we're spending a lot of money. You know, the revenue is massively up and we're still running at a loss. And I think, unfortunately, that is just sort of the nature of the game at the top end of the Premier League. You know, these are big turnover businesses and the wage bill has gone up. You're looking at signings like Declan Rice in that period, you know, big contracts extensions too for some of our key players, you know,

That's probably inevitable. Champions League club, people expect Champions League wages. I think that's it really. I mean, the owners as well, their involvement is significant. I mean, their loans to the club have increased pretty substantially, a further 62 million odd in loans. So the total debt to KSE now is 324 million. This revival, this return to the Champions League has been bankrolled on those loans from KSE.

which are, we understand, a pretty favourable interest. So yeah, I think the next year's financial results will be in some respects more interesting because...

We achieved a bit more of a break even in terms of our transfer spend and who we sold. So it'll be interesting to see exactly sort of how that balance shifts in that 12 months that's passed subsequently, because obviously we didn't spend money in January either. No, we didn't. No, and I know fans have got some questions about that. I suppose the good news from a kind of

transfer perspective is, you know, we've had our financial guys take a look at it and the estimates are that we have plenty of headway and headroom now concerning PSR, certainly in the Premier League. I think the UEFA rules are a little bit more tight. We should still have some renewability. So all in all, yeah, I think it's good news. Revenue's massively up and the costs that have gone up are just the costs associated with

Being a big club in the Premier League, I fear. Yeah. And the wage bill, Adrian. I mean, I've got mates who are Spurs fans and I sort of see what they're saying on social media. And although they spend quite a lot of money on players, they don't spend a lot of money on wages. And that seems to be the main marker now for success. I mean, it's a little stark, really. But in terms of the Premier League and the Champions League as well, the more you spend on wages, the better you are.

Well, yeah, players have expectations, don't they? And they pitch themselves at the level that they think they're at and they'll compare themselves to others. Yeah, those chats go on. For that reason, if we want to go for top-end players like Declan Rice, you have to pay top dollar. And I'll be honest with you, Arsenal have struggled to do that in the past. Even when we were in the Champions League previously, obviously during the period under Wenger where we were paying off the stadium, there wasn't really a desire to...

or maybe a possibility that we could ever match what a Man United or a Chelsea at the time or now City might be able to pay players Real Madrid Barcelona etc we just couldn't get anywhere close at least we can now

We are the most attractive club in London. London's a great place. It's a place where the world's best footballers would fancy it, absolutely. But you have to pay good money to bring those players in. So, yeah, it's good that we're in a position to do that. I still think we can sell better. I think that that is really important. And that is the downside of big wages, by the way. And you will see this at Chelsea.

you know, all these players on long contracts, on massive money, you won't be able to shift them. You know, no one will, no one will be able to take them. And that, you know, you've got to be careful not to go too far because otherwise you're then paying players for years and years on huge money that you don't want. So there's a balance to be struck. I think, yeah,

It's right, there's always a correlation between salary expenditure and success generally. But it is worth pointing out that Arsenal's club wage bill is still, despite the rise, only the fifth highest in the Premier League. And they achieved a second place finish, obviously, for the men's senior team. Who's above us? Liverpool, Man City, Chelsea, Man Utd. There you go. And so, if you want to look at it in those pure financial terms...

It is actually an overachievement what Arsenal produced last season to finish second. And I think that owes something to the quality of the coaching. So yeah, unfortunately, I think the only answer they really...

is to keep spending, isn't it? I mean, you know, if you want to remain competitive, we're talking about your Chelsea's and, you know, United, your City. City did a lot of business in January. And I think this is what a lot of fans are saying. You don't arrive. You can't afford to take your foot off the pedal. If you want to stay at the top and you want to win the biggest prizes, that level of investment has to continue.

Yeah, in life as well as in football, I would say. Liverpool drew 2-2.

Away at Villa. After the weekend, where they looked a bit nervous when they scraped through against Wolves, they dropped points. Darwin Nunes missed a sitter last night. James, are they worried about us, do you think? I mean, we're grinding out results and it's been one of those sort of mad seasons where it's just felt like it's lasted about 10 years. And yet here we are. We beat West Ham on Saturday. We're five points behind them. I mean, we're not

Out of it, if we just keep scraping through, and I got the sense, it was the first time I saw Liverpool at the weekend when they looked nervous. They looked less nervous last night, but they're playing against a very good team in Villa, and dropping two points is not unheard of. They've got City on the weekend as well. Are we getting to them a bit, or is it just inevitable? I'm sure we are. I'm sure we are, because...

There's so many reasons to write Arsenal off. They've been through so much this season and yet, despite everything, they are still there. And I do think we know ourselves, we've been in that position Liverpool are in right now, where there is that kind of psychologically wearing thing of having a team that's just on your coattails time after time.

I watched most of the Liverpool game. I was sort of flicking over to the Champions League match at the Bernabeu. But I do think that they don't look quite as imperious as they did a little while ago. I think the manager, to me, looks a little bit frayed, actually. Like, I think he's feeling it a little bit. I think the pressure, you know, we saw his reaction at Goodison Park. I watched his interview after the game yesterday and he was sort of

saying, you know, I feel like we've deserved more than we've got quite a lot this season. And I was like, you know, you're well clear at the top of the Premier League. What? They've been so lucky on a number of occasions. But I find it interesting that he's already looking at it sort of with his glass half full. So yeah, look, in some respects, I think it was a point game for them yesterday because there were moments they could have lost that game. Daniel Marlin, once of Arsenal, hit the post very late on. I know they had chances themselves.

at the other end. I think they did all right to come away with a draw there. I think that, you know, the gap will tighten. My worry is that I think Liverpool, we need Liverpool to drop quite a few points just because when I look at how stretched our squad is in certain positions, I find it really difficult to imagine us going on the sort of run we produced last season, 16 from 18 or whatever it was. I think we need Liverpool to have a proper wobble, maybe more than a wobble if it's going to be our year.

Yeah, well, they got City the weekend, then they got Newcastle at home. You know, lose to City, drop points to Newcastle, we beat West Ham. City didn't look great last night, to be fair, though. No, City were playing what I think might be the best team in Europe, or certainly one of the best two. Certainly with the best front line in Europe as well. Yeah, I couldn't watch it, Tony, because every time I had it on, I wanted to really watch the other game, the Real Madrid-City game.

But I flicked across and they scored both times with lucky goals. Like, what an absolute gift. I mean, the guy, the right back. I mean, what's he doing? They did it a few times, Villa. Terrible giveaways in their own half. Well, I think the kit, the kit clash was, it wasn't like a colour kit clash, but it wasn't a big difference. And like my wife had, you know, she's not a football expert, but she was like, oh, that's a bit confusing. Like with the shirt, you know, that was her main observation. Yeah.

and then he goes and passes it to a Liverpool player and I was like yeah you're right maybe it is but and then the Trent Alexander one was a jammy deflection so everything is going for them but yeah I couldn't really watch it I found it a bit too stressful I definitely think that they're getting edgy I definitely think they are

You felt it, certainly you felt it at Anfield at the weekend. For them not to have a single shot, and by the way, they lost that shot count 10-0 to Wolves at home in the second half. That tells me that they're getting edgy.

So, yeah. And I think the fans are as well. And I think you're right about the manager. Maybe they're getting a bit tired as well. I mean, look, obviously we're projecting in a lot of ways, but I sort of thought, yeah, they're still playing on all four, well, three now. They lost to Plymouth. But they've got a lot of games. I'm encouraged by what I'm seeing is basically what I'm saying. And I just still think that the fortune surely has to turn at some point. Even penalties. I look at the penalty count. They've scored seven.

We've had two. You know, little things like that. You know, can that flip around in this running? Can we get more penalties than them? You know, that might make a difference. I don't know. I've said all along that I think we are a better team than Liverpool. But James is absolutely right. Because our team is ravaged by injuries to forwards, probably will be the difference maker. But I still think if every player stays fit for the whole season, no one gets sent off,

We win the league and I don't think it's close. That's why it's so annoying. I just think we are a significantly better team than them. But so many things have gone against us. Bit of a way to go. West Ham at the Emirates. I mean, I said this, Adrian, the other week. I said, you know, if we want to win the title, we have to beat West Ham at home. That game last year was one of the most disappointing ones in the whole season, wasn't it? West Ham at home. Just, I mean, 28 shots.

I never felt like we would score in that game. We were just huffing and puffing away and it wasn't happening. And it was just, it was obvious we were in need of a holiday. And then obviously we went away and it all worked very nicely for us. But,

We did win 5-2 in the reverse fixture in November. I don't think they're very good at all. I also don't think they look a bit leaden, to be honest, the way that they play. Any dangers? I mean, it's quite often what you talk about when we talk about our opponents. Anyone that you look at and think, oh, they're a bit of a handful? Yeah, Jarrod Bowen. I mean, he scores the most goals, most assists, creates the most chances, has the most shots. You know, he is absolutely the best player.

They've been using Pakatar as a false nine, which is interesting. I don't know if they will do that again, but they have been playing him up top, which is slightly odd. Maybe Evan Ferguson, who obviously scored against us in the past for Brighton. He might come in and make his full debut for West Ham. Kudus is the other one. So basically, there are two areas where they can hurt us, and that's one's on the break. Kudus and Bowen, very, very good, very quick. So we've got to be careful of them.

And the other is that they've got some big guys and we saw that last year. Socek is the threat for me. He gets on the end of a lot of crosses. Whether it's corners or crosses, he just goes into the box and look to score with headed goals. So yeah, I think it's another reason to go with Mourinho up top because they do have aerial threat. But yeah, in general, we're miles better than them and we should outplay them, but they're

Let's see how it transpires. Graham Potter won't be as defensive as West Ham were last year. That is for sure. He won't park the bus on the edge of his own box.

But Graham Potter also has a really good record against Arsenal. You know, he's found ways to get the better of Arteta in the way that Eddie Howe has in the past. So, you know, he's someone we've got to respect. And James, I mean, you mentioned it before, you started Mourinho up top and bringing Sterling on with 20 minutes to go, because that really is the only option for the front four, isn't it? Three? Yeah, I think so. I think so. Yeah.

The outside option as another substitute is Kieran Tooney, isn't it? I think he came on as a winger the other day and I think we'll see plenty of him in that role between now and the end of the season. Perhaps not from the start, but maybe in the latter stages. So that's what I would do. Really excited to see more of Nwanehri, who obviously was so brilliant in his last outing. And I think that Emirates Stadium crowd on a Saturday afternoon are going to be...

chomping at the bit see a bit more of him in action so it should be good atmosphere too phenomenal just a quick one Wan-Bissaka has been brilliant for them this season um

really excellent consistently so Trossard won't have it easy so Trossard's going to have to be really clever to get the better of him because he's not going to physically he can't match up with Wan-Bissaka so he's going to have to be really really bright and look if you know if late in the game Wan-Bissaka's getting some joy pushing on the other way that probably would be the time to bring on Tierney and to cope with him because he's actually he supplies a lot of the ammunition for guys like Socek so

So, yeah, something to look out for. All right. Let's have a song before we go. Adrian? I wanted to go down the route of chasing Liverpool down. We're hunting them down, aren't we? And I...

I'm quite enjoying being the hunter rather than the hunted. There is a song from a couple of years ago by Kygo called Thrill of the Chase. It's actually not bad. It's a little sort of electro poppy tune. It's the thrill of the chase. So come on. Just one look away and I'm gone. I'm about to pick up the key.

Yeah, the lyrics are quite good. It talks about it's time to pick up the pace. Let's enjoy the thrill of the chase. And I think that, I think he's talking about pursuing a woman. But in this context... He's not. He's talking about a title race. Can I go? Massive goon, apparently.

I might do that, I have no idea, but I kind of like the idea. We've been talking about the title race. Okay, fair enough, very, very nice. I've gone a similar way, by the way. I thought you'd be pleased. I've gone a little by little Oasis. Little by little, we're annoying them a little bit. Every time they turn around, they're still there. Anyway, that's what I'm going for. James, what about you?

I love that song, Little by Little. I was looking at the finances, you know, revenues up, but so is expenditure. So I went for Notorious B.I.G., More Money, More Problems. Oh, that's a slightly less upbeat end than I was hoping for. We'll take that. Yeah, but More Money, More Problems. But Good Problems is what you're saying. Yeah.

Are you? Yeah, no, they are good problems. Very good problems. They are. We're second in the league. Let's go with Isak. You know, it's a problem, isn't it? Yeah, exactly. Which one do we want? Where should we spend our wads of cash? Okay, that's it for this edition of Hand Break Off. Thanks to Adrian and James. Thanks to Robbie, our producer. And see you after West Ham. Ta-ra.