Defeat at St James’ Park, roll on Dubai…
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The Athletic FC Podcast Network. The only way to score is, of course, to play with a handbrake off. Hello, I'm Ian Stone. This is Handbrake Off, the Arsenal podcast brought to you by The Athletic. Last night, the Arsenal lost 2-0 to Newcastle in the second leg of the Carabao Cup semi-final. 4-0 on aggregate and off we go into Dubai.

Probably now. They're on the plane, I imagine. To reflect on the game, I'm joined by Art de Rocher and James McNicholas. Morning. Morning.

Morning Ian. Morning. Do you know by the way, there was a report this morning that came out that said that the more Zoom meetings you do, the more depressed you are because you spend a lot of time looking at your own face, is what I heard. But apparently, obviously you're less depressed the better looking you are. And obviously this is a good looking podcast, so we're feeling okay just looking at our own face.

I was about to say, so why do I feel so depressed here? Look at my face. If you want to feel less depressed, look at my face. All right. That'll help.

Anyway, we've got a weekend off. Not us. We're going to keep talking. But the team go and get some warm weather in Dubai. Apparently, the weather is in the high 20s, 20 degrees Celsius, as opposed to Fahrenheit, which is what it is here at the moment. Any holiday tips, Art? Any holiday tips? I'm absolutely terrible. You're terrible on holiday? Really? Yeah, I always... I just, like...

and then I forget that I have holiday to take off. So it's always like a last minute kind of thing. I was lucky last year before last that my brother was around for his birthday in November and I just went back to Japan with him when he went back.

the flights were quite cheap other than that I'm not the guy so I'm actually here to listen to you guys to get your tips okay James I mean me and you working in the creative industries as we do we're not very good with holidays are we or are you better than me no no I'm trying to get better but

You never lose that kind of self-employed fear of like, oh, what if a job comes in? I've got a few holiday tips for Arsenal while they're in Dubai, which are sort of no water skiing, no jet skiing, no bungee jumping, nothing of any physical danger, please.

Yeah, just gently walking around the hotel grounds. Lots of massages. Swimming, is that all right? Yeah, low-resistance stuff like swimming is fine, but no water slides. Not butterfly, I would say. No butterfly, no water slides, yeah. Okay, okay. Holiday tips...

Oh, do you know what, lads? Just think about something else for a week, maybe. We've had, how many games? We've had 16 games in December and January. And you need a rest. You need to switch off.

Read something, you know, relax. No drinking, we understand that. Although, you know, to be honest, even a couple of drinks on the first couple of days I think would be all right as well. Just anything not to think about football for a few days. Because I think, and mad as it may seem, and I can't believe I'm even uttering this phrase, I think we've had enough footballs.

for a little while, haven't we? Really, it seems to. Every three days. There was a point where I'm like, oh, not another home game, for goodness sake. I'm trudging down Holloway Road again. Anyway, anyway, we're through all that now. It ended, well, as we sort of thought it might end, a comprehensive defeat.

Missed a load of chances. Another injury. We'll see what that's like to Gabriel Martinelli. James, could it have gone any worse? I mean, two injuries, 5-0 on Egriga. Oh, it can always go worse, Ian. It can, yeah. It can always go worse. Yeah. But...

Yeah, it was pretty bad. You were there, by the way. You were there, weren't you? I had the honour. And by the way, props to any of the 4,800 or so fans who went up, or you, because that's a long way. Well, props to the fans. Yeah, I mean, fair play. I'm being paid, you know, it's my job. But they're doing it out of their own pocket and out of their own free will. And fair play to them. I mean, after that first leg, I spoke to a few fans who were going up.

And I was kind of in awe at them, really, because I was like, that's a commitment, you know, and a significant cost as well. Yes. Yeah. As for the game, I mean, it's very rare that as an Arsenal fan, we've spoken a lot about things that haven't gone our way this season or fine margins or feeling a bit unlucky. Across the two legs, I don't think we can really have any complaints. We're really well beaten.

In both games, I know we had more chances in the first game, but that's on us really that we didn't take them. And last night, it was pretty comprehensive. Newcastle had a very clear game plan.

And we weren't good at both ends of the pitch. There was a few missed opportunities and Mikael said to put a big emphasis on those post-game. But I was really struck defensively how out of sorts we looked, how much we struggled to handle Alexander Izak. Stark contrast, wasn't it, to the way that we shackled Erling Haaland for long periods of the game on Sunday. I've not seen Saliba and Gabriel look that ragged.

for a long time, possibly ever. Yeah, it was a bit like that. I mean, in the end, Newcastle got our number a bit, haven't they? They've beaten us three times this season already. We've still got them to come at home and we know that's a difficult game. And even in that season, and it's been for a while now, that 22-23 season when we were flying and then they turned up and the ball was in play for about half an hour total and they got a 0-0 and they spoiled and did everything they could to...

they, they like playing us, don't they? Yeah. I mean, it goes back further than that to the season before when Arsenal were going for the Champions League. Why'd you do that? Why'd you do that? It could always get worse, like I said. Yeah. It can always, it can always get worse. Yeah. Um, but I think even thinking back to that game, just the pattern was very similar. I feel like I remember in the first possession for our first five minutes, um,

Newcastle just so aggressive on Aaron Ramsdale and Arsenal's backline when they had the ball and whenever Arsenal travel up there apart from that one game that they won 2-0 in 23 I think when we got battered in the first 15-20 minutes as well yeah I think every game has followed a similar pattern where they just go for it and I think

They're probably the only team that are that aggressive in what they do. But then they can also be quite disciplined and just hold their positions. I think they're a really difficult team to kind of manage. And I remember one thing Arteta spoke about after the first game we mentioned was kind of managing the mood and the emotions of the game. And I think it's so hard to do that at St. James' Park compared to probably...

any other ground, maybe apart from Anfield, in the league. James, we'll get into the game a little bit. Did they want it more than us? And I don't even like the expression, but what I mean is, this is a huge thing for the team, for the city. They were 2-0 up. We've come off the back of a very intense and emotional weekend against Manchester City.

I mean, it would have been a miracle if we'd have gone up there and got the result. It just felt like there was more riding on it for them than for us. I think for their fans, definitely. I mean, the atmosphere was extraordinary last night and they were just willing their team on to get to that final and try and hunt down that domestic trophy. The Carabao Cup, if we're all honest, I think it's never sat quite as high in our priorities. Now, I think those players for Arsenal

really wanted to go out there and get the job done and they believed they could. You know, full-time whistle, I saw Kai Havertz head straight off down the tunnel. You know, his head was down. He was rejecting high fives and hugs from staff. He was disconsolate. And I think you're only that upset if you really believe you've got an opportunity going into the game.

And maybe given the month between the games, Newcastle's recent home form, Arsenal flying high after being City, they thought, if we get that first goal, it could be possible. And ultimately, the whole game really hinges on that 60 seconds, doesn't it? Where Odegaard has two chances back to back and before you know it, Newcastle have scored up the other end. And as soon as they got that first goal, it set the pattern of play, made it very difficult for us and the writing was on the wall.

And it sort of feels like both games to a certain extent. If I think back to the first game and Gabriel Martinelli going through and hit that shot, hit the post, and then they go and score at the other end. And then this one, Martinelli going, what a chance that was. That is a, you know, you've got to take those chances, haven't you? Games have fine margins, particularly when you're 2-0 down from the first leg. You absolutely have to get the first goal. And I think every Arsenal fan would have known, wouldn't they, marginally,

Martin Erdogan misses, then Isak scores at the other end. And it's not that the game is over particularly, but it's just going to be a mountain. Yeah, when the first goal was ruled offside, obviously massive side relief. But then as soon as that shot hit the post and I was watching from home, my head was on my hands.

Sorry, no. My hands were on my head. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You could have your head on your hands as well. I mean, that'd be possible. You could have in your hands, your hands on your head. Whichever way you guys want to go. Hands and head were connected in some way. Yeah. From the moment Erdogan missed and they didn't leave my head.

until Jacob Murphy was off celebrating. So you kind of knew in real time how big a missed opportunity that was.

And as you say, Ian, very similar to the first leg where if you are looking for those margins, that's where they are. That's where the game's been won slash lost for Newcastle and Arsenal. So, yeah, big, big 60 seconds and very unfortunate it didn't go Arsenal's way. Newcastle! Newcastle! Newcastle!

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James, Alexander Isak, has he taken on some sort of mythical proportions for us now in the sense that if we're like, imagine. I mean, it does feel to me like if Alexander Isak was playing for us in these games, we'd be through at the Carabao Cup final and that is not having a go at Kai Havertz, but it's just he looks lethal and he loves playing against us and as you said,

I haven't seen Gabriel and Saliba look that uncomfortable ever, ever. And is there a sort of feeling of regret when you watch him every time now? Oh, he should be in red and white, really. And would have been if we'd have spent the money in 2022. The one that got away. Yeah. I think there is a bit of that to it. I mean, he's got so many qualities. I've watched him in person a couple of times this month and

his touch, his finishing, speak for themselves. I think it's his movement that really was giving us issues in both games and the way he spins off the back of defenders and darts into that space behind, the intelligence, the acceleration,

You don't see much of that at this level. I think it's really difficult to find those spaces in top level games and he does it time after time. I was watching an interview you did with Alan Shearer where they were talking about just his style of play and the one thing that came across was how much of a street footballer is it? And that's why I think so many people enjoy watching him because of how he moves with the ball, how well he can dribble. But

What is paired with that is just he's able to go unnoticed, which is quite strange for someone who's six foot three, six foot four. I remember the first leg just being bewildered that he was in so much space on the edge of Arsenal's box, but then he does it again yesterday night. And yeah, I...

James knows my feelings about this guy. But for the listener, for the listener, Art, your feelings about this guy, you're saying you've got some feelings for this guy. And it's partly to do with the fact that he could have been an Arsenal player. Yeah, strong feelings. I think he just is like an Arsenal striker when you look at him.

So, yeah, I can go on a bit more, but I'll leave it there. I don't know what that means, to be honest with you. I mean, if you think about the strikers we've had over the years. Yeah. I mean, I mean. Okay, actually, should I rephrase it? Yeah, go on. He's a Wenger type of striker. Like early Wenger. Henry, Adebayor, Enelka. Tall, can move, can pass, can finish, can pretty much do everything. Yeah.

And, yeah, I just see those guys when I watch him. Yeah, we'll talk about not getting him, or not that we were ever going to get him in this transfer window and not getting anyone, but we'll talk about that in a bit. We'll do a bit more about the game. Martin Odegaard, he was dropping a bit deeper to get the ball early on to get us playing. I've said this on this podcast before, and obviously it was his right foot, but James, he needs to work on his finishing, doesn't he?

I think that feels a fair comment at the moment. I mean, there have been times previously where his finishing has been excellent. And I think sometimes with goal scoring, midfielders can go through these fluctuations where they have form in front of goal. Actually, in the first half in particular, I thought there was quite a lot that was good about his performance. Industrious,

Trying to make things happen. Looked at the man most likely at times, but the goals aren't really flowing for him as easily as they have in the past. He's got a couple in the last few weeks, hasn't he? He has, yeah. Tap-ins, really. Tap-ins, but that is a positive sign. It means he's getting in the right positions. I just feel his execution in the final third is not at the level we've come to expect from him. And probably that he's come to expect from himself. You know, I'm sure that he'll be very...

self-analytical and self-critical about that because he's got very high standards. And I've seen a lot of sort of online discourse around Odegaard and his form. And I've been a bit surprised actually by how negative some of the reaction's been. Because I think his quality is still evident. It's just a question of finding that execution in those big moments. I think he's certainly capable of it. And hopefully,

A bit of rest and a bit of time to work on it, as you say, will do him some good. Yeah, I just think with a player of that quality, when you know how good he is at basically everything else, it's sort of surprising. When you see that, Charles, you think that should be a goal. That should be the goalkeeper. It shouldn't even get... It should just be past him before he can even really react. We can talk about William Saliba as well. I mean, he ain't going to come up against a centre-forward of the quality of...

Alexander Isak every week. But do you think we should like do a package of that video and send it to Madrid? That's a good idea, I think. That is terrible. Honestly, you wouldn't be in the least bit interested. He's barely in our team. Something like that. Little note. I did see some people talking about how different his aerial jaws are to his ground jaws and how much more dominant he is.

he is on the ground. And I guess when you look at the yin and yang of the centre-back partnership, Gabriel has always been the kind of more front-footed one. And I guess Alexander Izak, having played them three times now this season, probably knows which one of those he'd prefer to kind of latch onto, if you want to phrase it like that. I think with Saliba himself,

It's weird because sometimes he has these moments in seasons. I remember last year it was around the Champions League knockout stages against Porto at home. In particular, I remember he looked very frazzled, but they don't tend to last that long. Maybe it's a game or two and hopefully the break coming now can help him just settle down a little bit as well. But Gabriel, I think, always...

also probably will be needed to kind of lift him back up again because we know how well they work together. Well, they do look after each other. James, we forget how young William Saliba is, don't we? I mean, he's been outstanding for two or three seasons and he's what, 23, 24? I mean, he's a young guy still. Yeah, yeah. And there are things, I think, maybe that aerial dynamic to his game, he's worked on it a fair bit and improved in that area since he came to English football. I think when he arrived at Arsenal, that was...

whisper it but maybe a weakness in his game I think he's kind of levelled that out now but maybe he could be better still

But yeah, I think this also looked like a team, and Mikel Arteta rejected this suggestion after the game, as he's likely to do because he doesn't like to make excuses. But this also looked like a team to me at the end of what's been quite a taxing January with a lot of fixtures who looked a bit like they'd run out of puff, frankly. And I think the break in that respect comes at a good time.

And in terms of the injury to Martinelli, James, he walked off, didn't he? I mean, they're going to do a scan. Do you know anything? Have you heard anything? Scan today, yeah, I think so. MRI and hope for the best. I mean, it looked like a sort of mild hamstring injury, so you'd think that'd be a few weeks at a minimum. But we'll have to wait and see. We'll have to wait and see. All right.

All right. And any positives for the game? I mean, I mean, Miles Lewis Skelly, Ethan Waineri came through another big game. These two young kids, incredibly difficult environment. And that's about it, isn't it, James? Yeah, that is about it, to be honest with you, mate. Yeah. Positive. Sorry, housekeeping just knocked on the door in the hotel. That's why I said housekeeping. I was, my brain was fried. Yeah.

Yeah, no, sorry. Sorry, I haven't got too many positives to offer on the actual game today. No, but your room will soon be tidier. My room will soon be tidier, yeah. That's a positive. Anything before we move on? Because I don't want to go on about it. In the end, we got beaten by, I think, the better team on the night over the two legs and we just have to suck it up and move on. As we said, things can always get worse. So I don't have a positive one.

But one thing I kind of noticed with Kai Havertz, and again, this isn't to be snide or anything, but I just felt he could offer himself towards the ball a bit more rather than running in behind as often.

as he did. And I think going into, I guess, post-break, post-Dubai, I'd maybe like to see a bit more of that to help Arsenal kind of move the ball through the middle of the pitch. Would it be, I don't know, the wrong thing to just show him a video of Alexander Isak playing for 90 minutes? Go, do that! Just do a bit more of that, please. Or is that a bit much? Yeah.

No, I reckon anyone would love to watch Alexander Isak. He's very watchable. He is. No getting away from it. Anyway, we'll never speak of that game again. Ian Stone, Art de Roche and James McNicholas here on the Athletics Arsenal podcast and break off. That's a back-to-stabriano!

They get a handbrake off and you can see that they are more free to play. This is handbrake off Dubai. Right. Dubai. I mean, it has taken on art. This is like a cure-all, really. You know, we were having a bad time last year. We lost a

We lost to West Ham and then we lost to Liverpool in the Cup and then we went to Dubai and Salt Bae dribbled some salt down his elbow and they ate steak and it was all lovely after that, right? I mean, it's what, it's about a six or seven day break before they come back. It's just, they just need a little reset, don't they? Yeah.

Yeah, to be fair, I put this to Arteta on Tuesday. Last year wasn't the first time they ever went to Dubai. They went to the World Cup 22. They also went around February 22 and 21 and 2020 as well, I think. So they know what they're doing when they go out there. I think this time around, he said they're obviously in the same location, but they might try and...

do a few different things to kind of

I guess, activate different things within the players and how they want to kind of refresh. Yeah, some of the weird stuff that, you know, get a magician in or like a, you know, a pickpocket or something just to zhuzh it up a bit. Yeah, he didn't say exactly what, but I think they're kicking up some new methods. And when I looked back over the kind of last times they went, one of them, I think actually two of them were nil-nil draws to Burnley were the last games before they went.

And then they came back and beat Newcastle 4-1. That was in Arteta's first season. Those were the days. Yeah, I didn't even realise. And then the second time they drew to 0-0, Burnley 0-0 at the Emirates and then came back and beat Wolves 1-0. I believe Gabriel from a corner. So yeah, there's form there. It's not just last year.

No. Okay. Burnley got a good defence apparently this year. Got an unbelievable defence this year. But anyway, nothing to do with us. James, this whole thing, we played 16 games in December and January. 16 games in 62 days, which is one game every 3.8. We will play a maximum, and hopefully it will be a maximum, of 21 games between now and the end of May.

14 in the league and 7 in the Champions League in 101 days that is one game every just under 5 days and we get a holiday before we start all that

In the end, with the squad that we've got, it has just been a bit too much, hasn't it, January? As we thought it might be. Yeah, it's not just the amount of games. It's, as you say, the size of squad we've had. You know, at points having 13 fit first team players, a small group who've shared all those minutes. I think it has taken its toll, certainly. And we've seen that with picking up additional injuries throughout that period. Yeah.

Yeah, Gabriel Martinelli, I mean, you know, for example, Gabriel Martinelli, you know, if we had more forward players, he might have been rotated, right? I mean, they might have put Trossard over there, hasn't played quite as many games, perhaps. Martinelli might have been off for the first 60 minutes, but then we had no choice. Exactly. We've not really been able to protect anybody. We saw Ethan Ranieri pick up a problem, didn't we, at Brighton as well, probably as a consequence of playing more minutes than expected or planned.

So we have suffered. We have suffered. You know, there's still a long way to go when you lay it out like that. And we hope we get all those Champions League games because, frankly, at this point in time, that arguably looks like our best chance of winning something. You do think that, don't you? Because Liverpool have got this lead and we'll see what happens with the Everton game. As well, I think, you know, it's not just, I mean, Liverpool's lead is one thing. And I think if they go and beat Everton at Goodson Park,

it goes to nine points and that will be very, very difficult to overturn. I also think in the Champions League, by the time we get into the latter stages, you know, we might have Bakayas Sakkabak available and that will be such a difference maker for this team. You know, whenever we talk about our performances at the moment, we have to see it through that prism. We have to see it through the fact that we are also missing

our star player. How many would we have got against Man City if Saka was playing? Another five, hopefully. I've seen the up, I've got Robbie, our producer, has given me a list of the upcoming fixtures. Leicester away, West Ham at home, Forest away, which we know is going to be difficult, Man Utd away as well, Chelsea away,

Chelsea at home, Fulham home. If we can cut... I mean, we need 18 points, don't we? We just hope at least... We need 16 at the least, really, and just hope that Liverpool start dropping points. Let's talk about the lack of signings. Where are you with this? I mean, actually, you know what? I'm asking you where you are. I'll tell you where I am. I think our squad is too small. I think, you know, if everyone stays fit...

If everyone stays fit, we've got chances in both those competitions. And big chances, I would say. We are in a good position to strike if Liverpool do falter. And the team that played against Man City with the addition of Bukayo Saka and one or two defenders, just to give us a bit of depth on the bench, we can beat anyone. But...

It's such a massive if, isn't it? And it feels to me like the higher ups of the club have not helped Mikel Arteta as much as they could have done. What do you think? Yeah, there's no hiding from the fact that it is a small squad and it's very, I guess, bottom heavy when you look at how it's been made up. And that's been made up for a reason because Mikel Arteta wants those options in defence, defensively.

I think we've spoken before about him wanting at least eight defenders in a squad. But who was on the bench last night? I mean, Calafiore, Zinchenko, Tierney, and there was one other as well, Akivior.

I mean, how many left-footed players, say, do we need? I'm not the manager. I'm not the manager. No, I'm just asking you the question. Yeah, but I think when you look at the forward areas, everyone knows that's where...

recruitment's needed and I don't think it's just the striker position as well. I think I've been banging on about support out wide for a while and we've seen why it's needed especially this season. You can't just take for granted that Bukayo Osaka is going to be available for 35 out of 38 league games a season anymore and Mikel Arteta did make a remark in his press conference that I found kind of

I don't know if weird is the right word, but he spoke about how some clubs, and I'm guessing he was talking about Chelsea, have 45 players and Arsenal don't have that. And when I looked back and I saw those, I was just thinking, well, Arsenal don't have that because they're not, I guess, setting out to have a squad that big. And it was really, yeah, it just seems completely different to

things he said before. He's obviously spoken about wanting bigger squads before, but yeah, it was something that kind of stood out to me in terms of just the number. And also if he was to have a squad that big, would it even make sense? Like, would he then have 20 defenders? Do we need 25? Yeah.

By the way, while we're on the subject of left-footed players, have you been through the team? We've got so many left-footed players. Are we just buying all the left-footed players so no one else can have any left-footed players? Because we started going and sitting with my mate the other day, going through them, going, oh, him as well. Oh, and him. It was ridiculous. James, if Ethan went airy...

Maybe they knew, right? Maybe they were watching Wanaere and going, he's ready. He's ready. We'll bring him in slowly, but he's ready. We don't need cover. But it feels like, thank heavens that Ethan Wanaere has come through. And it's not just luck. Obviously, the academy has done an amazing job and what have you. But I mean, we are relying at this point on a 17-year-old.

Yeah, I mean, I think more so than we anticipated. But the club did look at him in pre-season and think he deserves a place and a pathway needs to be created. And I think the decision, for example, to loan out Fabio Vieira was made in part to create that opportunity for him. So in some respects, that's part of the plan that's worked. I actually really agree with Art that I found Arteta's...

comments there quite confusing. And even a few weeks ago, he said something about, oh, we have one of the smallest squads in the league because, and I found that odd again, because previously we've heard bits and pieces of,

about him quite enjoying working with a small group. And when Arsenal had a big group, do you remember that period where we had to leave Sokratis and Ozil out of the 25 and it was all disruptive and problematic? I think it's really hard to carry a big squad. I mean, very few people would look at the situation Chelsea have got and say, that looks ideal. And I think Arteta has been very closely involved in some of these squad building decisions and squad building choices. So,

I'm not sure. I feel like there might be a bit of a moving of the goalposts there. That said, I am still surprised and a little disappointed that Arsenal ended the window without some sort of signing. For me, it's all about Kai Havertz's fitness. And I know Mikel went big on him the other day. A genetic powerhouse, I think he called him. Yes. And he is. He's an extraordinary athlete.

Incredible fitness levels, incredible durability, repeatability of sprints, all sorts. I just look at him and I think, I mean, yeah, he's getting a break now, but he desperately needs it. He looks to me like someone who's creaking a bit. And if he gets an injury, if we get just one more injury in that position, I do really worry about what that would mean for us.

Yeah, just in terms, oh, you're nodding, just in terms of the way we play as well. Suddenly, if Kai Havertz is not in that team, there's almost no point in pumping a high ball up front, is there, to try and get on Trossard or Martinelli or when Ariel Sterling's dead. Yeah, yeah, I was going to say, like, Arteta mentioned Sterling and someone who could play up there. And when you think about it, obviously he's done it for City before, but in this Arsenal team, it would just look so foreign. Yeah.

an idea. I think I'd play one area there, to be honest with you. I mean, they talk, don't they, about him being a possible centre forward and you know he can finish. Yeah. So my thing with that is everyone knows his finishing ability.

But I'd almost say it works better coming from a different area of the pitch rather than having him in that position and then having to kind of fashion those chances out of nothing. I know he can do that.

But if he's coming just off centre, I think it probably catches defenders a bit more by surprise. So I'd probably lean towards Trossard going through the middle. We know he can finish. James, what do you think about Wanehari playing centre forward? I mean, even as I'm saying it, I think, oh, I'd love to see him receiving the ball with his back to goal technique.

bit of quick feet and getting a shot away. I think he might be the best in the team at doing that. Maybe. My worry is, would you see too much of him with his back to goal from that position where it's really you want him arriving onto stuff? Yeah. We already talk about it as the archetypal and airy goal. What is it? It's that little shimmy inside and curled shot from the edge of the box. I think really you want someone who brings a bit more structure for him to play off. You want someone in that

Havertz mould. And yeah, I think that's why Kai is so important to us right now. I mean, going through the options there, I don't think you'll find many Arsenal fans in a hurry to see Raheem Sterling at number nine. There was a mixed reaction to that suggestion from Ricard Teta, I think it's fair to say. I think we should remember that Leandro Trossard has done a really good job in that position at periods. I know recently he's been considered more of a wide player, but...

When he first came into the side, I mean, you know, there was a time where he was keeping Gabriel Jesus out for long periods. He's someone who can combine, who can link the play in a different way to have us. But he would be my next in line.

Beyond that, I think you're sort of scratching around. You know, Arteta clearly doesn't fancy Martinelli there because he's never really done it. Emery picked Martinelli through the middle quite a few times, but Arteta, even when there's seemingly been an opportunity to do it, has resisted.

And I'm assuming both of you would take us not winning anything and then signing an unbelievable striker and then winning a big trophy next year. If you can guarantee that, yeah. I can actually guarantee that. What I actually think, right, if you're actually asking, and we can get into this more at some point, is that we could dominate this league and possibly Europe for the next four or five years if...

we get the right sort of striker because I think everything else seems to work in that team pretty well. Uh, and I, and I also look at our rivals, you know, city, hopefully getting relegated, uh, Liverpool losing Sala and Van Dyke. I, I, I think we are best equipped to step in, but we have to get the right striker. We can talk more about that at some point, I guess, James, I think I watched one of your on the whistles when he talks about, um, you know, you think the ESAC ship has sailed, uh,

really because of the money so what we do is we go for the next cab off the rank you know there's basically a 22 year old who's a bit raw but obviously won't cost 150 million quid and we mould him into an Alexander Isak type mix of Isak and Haaland and then set him loose with the rest of our players behind him if that happens do you not agree that we are in a very very good position but it has to happen

Yeah, I mean, it sounds very straightforward, I suppose, when you lay it out like that. The problem with any signing is there's risk involved. And, you know, the great thing about Izak is he feels like a sure thing. I think anything outside of that, you're taking a bit of a gamble. Can we actually spend £150 million with PRS? Well, that's the question. And I'm not sure. That's performance. I think...

Yeah, I think that his debate may prove to be moot. I think especially if Newcastle get top four. He's got three years left on his deal. They're in a really strong position. I don't see a reason they'll need to sell him this summer unless he kicks up a massive fuss, which I'm not sure, you know, he could end the season in the Champions League and with a trophy. So I'm not sure how likely that is.

I do think that if Arsenal were looking to do something else, personally, I'd rather see them make the choice of, let's go for the next guy. Let's learn from the Isak situation where we didn't take the gamble in 2022.

Let's find someone whose talent we really believe in, who we think is affordable now, but can go to the next level with us. Maybe more so than going down the Ollie Watkins route, which is a good Premier League player, but we don't know what kind of longevity he'll have and what sort of investment he'll prove to be.

It's a massive summer, though, and whoever's making those decisions when it comes to it has got a lot to consider. Yeah, and I think it's got to be done early as well. If I'm William Saliba, particularly William Saliba, who will have, I believe, two years left on his contract. I know Bakayo Saka's in a similar position, but I don't see him going anywhere. But if I'm William Saliba, I want to be looking around that dressing room and I want to be seeing that striker coming in. And we do think Martin Zubimendi...

That seems to be sort of further along. But you have to look at it and go, is this a squad capable of winning the Champions League or the Premier League? And then he makes this assessment. I mean...

are you in broad agreement that, you know, it's a big summer? It's a huge summer, isn't it? Yeah, I think when you look at summer's past, you'd rather a 2022 or 2023 summer in the type of summer rather than 2024. With, I guess, in 2023, it was very similar. I think me and James spoke about this in the week with the pursuit for Declan Rice, where

they kind of knew that was what they were going to do from December, January. And they just kind of went for it. And you'd hope they'd wrap up things similarly with Zubin Mendy this time around. In terms of other targets, I guess,

There's no major tournament this year, so that would help. And yeah, I think with what's coming as well, just in terms of, yeah, tours, you'd want that all wrapped up before you go away, I think. June the 2nd. June the 2nd, right? We do the trophy parade for the Champions League and then we unveil on the bus, right? Suddenly he comes up the stairs from downstairs, here's our new striker, right? Who should I take that script to? LAUGHTER

Yeah, it could work as a drama as well. Yeah, it's true. David Tennant as Mikel Arteta. Anyway, let's have a song to finish because we're going to talk more about this in the next week now because we haven't got any football to talk about. Let's have a song to finish. James, what are you having? What should I go for? I'll go for Leaving on a Jet Plane, John Denver, for the last day. I believe

Good, okay. I'm having good day sunshine, all right? I'm having the Beatles. Good day sunshine. Good day sunshine.

What about you, Art? Before I go for a song, I have to give a shout out to the guys Mark, Joe and Dan in Block 110.

Those are the guys I sat with during the Man City game and they asked for a shout out. So there you guys go. Mark, Joe and Dan. Mark, Joe and Dan. Yeah. Yeah, they're very good times. So yeah. Thanks for looking after Art and helping him with his hands in his head. Whichever way round it was. No, no, that was for the City game. Oh, that was the City games. No, of course. Your hands would have been in the air like everybody else. What about you? Art, what's up?

I believe in miracles kind of going off what vibes James brought to a different podcast on Monday um just looking forward to the end of the season all right then uh you know there's a lot to play for by the way I should say we are second in the league and currently in the Champions League in the uh in the last 16 knockouts so there's a lot of good things uh still to happen this year um

We hope. Thanks to James. Thanks to Art. Thanks to Robbie, our producer. And we'll see you for a sort of... I think we're going to get some listeners' questions on Monday and other bits and pieces. Have a nice rest, Gooners. See you soon. Ta-ra.