End of Season Awards: Part Two
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Hello, I'm Ian Stone. This is Handbrake Off, the Arsenal podcast brought to you by The Athletic. I know we were with you yesterday, but we're back.

Different cast. We're going to talk a bit more about Arsenal's Champions League triumph. We're also going to get our guests to have their say on the end of season awards that we handed out yesterday. Today we've got Art de Rocher and James McNicholas. Hello. Hello. Morning, guys. Morning. Before we get into all that, Dave Mack asked us a question because we sent out, please ask us some questions. Dave Mack asked, now Camden Hills is gone, what beverages do you want in the ground and why? Now.

I think you all know my thoughts on food and drink and football in that it shouldn't be allowed in any... Well, drink, yes. Not food. Are you bothered, James? To be honest, I actually... I know this is sort of anathema to you, Stoney, but I need some decent food in that stadium. Because, like, you've got to bear in mind, like...

A lot of the time I'm getting to that ground. If I'm going in the North Bank, a lot of the time I'll be rushing there from somewhere else. I've been, I don't know, doing some work or looking after my son. A lot of the time I get to games and I haven't eaten. And I've eaten too many

of those cardboard pizzas down the ears. Like, mate, it's, honestly, I think when I eventually die, that will be the cause of death. Cardboard pizza. Too many cardboard pizzas. Yeah, pizzas with little bits of bread on the top. Yeah. As if there's not enough bread in there.

in a pizza but can I just say at this point could you not just leave more time I don't know I mean looking after your son was a bit of a low blow to me because I'm meant to go well if you're looking after your son you definitely need a decent that's what I was going for I get that you've got to remember as well when I go in the press box

Don't you get food? We get lovely food in the press box. Well, then what are you, what do you care? Because I'm not always in the press box. Sometimes Art's in there or Amy's in there. They elbow me out and then I'm back on the cardboard again. Take his food. Can you, can you not nip in, by the way, as a, as a, an esteemed member of the press? I don't think I've earned, I don't think I've earned that right. I,

I think you need to be a certain level to just nip in. What Art could do maybe is bring me like a doggy bag. Yeah, so they do desserts as well. And I never have the dessert because my stomach, I don't eat a lot. So maybe next time I'll meet James and give him a slice of cake, please. Yeah, you don't get puddings in the main stadium, do you? Maybe some puddings. If they had a little patisserie place, I'd be well up for that.

Half-time, half-time bit of a Viennese slice or something. I'd be there like a shot, Ian. Maybe they should do, if you think like Champions League games, we should do like themed puddings. That's a good idea. What about like a nice coffee? How do you feel about that, Ian, on the concourse? Oh, yeah.

How do I feel about that? A nice coffee. A latte. I'll get you a latte. Flat white. Or Cortado because I have really gone full middle class North London Arsenal fans. If there's any fans of other teams listening to this, I'm so sorry. If this gets out, by the way, we're finished as a supporter base, I think.

If they clip this up and put this online, that's it. Arsenal are done. Art, what's the best ground you've been to for in-stadium food and drink? Ooh, the first one that comes to mind, I guess the most popular one around like journalists that cover the Premier League is Chelsea because they do like a...

proper proper spread i'm not surprised actually i'm not surprised the food around chelsea around the ground is excellent as well but i actually really enjoy leicester as well i always feel like when you go to leicester they take real good care of you down to like the the people i think they're the best people like in terms of club staff as well like they're just so friendly and nice you're missing out on that next season then unless you get them in the cup

Yeah, unless Arsenal send a player to the Championship and they have a game at Leicester, maybe I'll ask to go. But yeah. Art seems very keen on the Leicester trip, even though it's massively inconvenient. You're like, yum, yum, yum. All right, then. All right. Anyway, no more Camden Hills, apparently. I don't know if we answered the question, Dave, but we did the best we could. James, we haven't spoken to you yet about Arsenal's...

victory on Saturday in the Champions League final against Barcelona. I mean, it was splendid, wasn't it? And it was such a great, great performance. Yeah, incredible. I mean, you know, like a lot of people, I saw Arsenal as big underdogs really in that final. Like everyone, surely. I mean, everyone. And they had done extraordinarily well to get to that point. I mean, pretty miraculous, really, the comeback in the semi-final. So, yeah,

To go one better and win the thing itself was just amazing. It was a brilliant game. I was so happy for the fans who travelled out there. And then what a reception they got yesterday back in North London. Incredible. I was so delighted to see the size of the crowd who turned out for them. Just an amazing thing for the whole club, really. And nice to sort of end the season on that note. Yeah, for the whole club, I think that is the point, isn't it, really? I mean, I did see...

one of the pieces, one of the many pieces I read after the game saying this is one of the most monumental moments in Arsenal's history. And it wasn't talking about whether it was men or women. And I think it is, isn't it? I mean, I know you spoke to some of the women after the game. In fact, I tell you what, let's hear a little bit of the chat you had with Leah Williamson, Steph Catley and first Beth Mead. Did you get much sleep? Not very much, no. As you can tell. In terms of

I guess we'll start with the game. Coming on when you did, do you feel like that was a moment that was almost destined to happen once you got on the pitch? I mean, as a player, I always wear my hat on my sleeve and was very disappointed not to be starting, but have to make the best out of the situation and really want to come on and make a difference in the game. And I think myself and Stina very much did that. Yeah, in terms of the pass as well,

Ridiculous. Can you kind of remember what was going through your head when you picked up the ball and how you came to reverse it like that? I think watching the game, I think there was a lot of blocked shots, a lot of bodies in the way, both teams were putting their bodies on the line. I got up my left foot and I know I've scored ones like that before, but I thought just for a split second seeing this face open up where Sina was and put it there. I think she was in a better position than me to score and luckily it got to her feet from the back of her neck.

If you think about what we've done over the last couple of years and how we've positioned ourselves amongst, like in, you know, how the club have positioned us from, in terms of a respect point of view. And then to collaborate that with a trophy, I'm like, we did our bit. And I think that the work that's been done behind the scenes for the last couple of years is world leader. And now there's a trophy to match that, which I'm very proud of. The respect amongst even, you know, this event and stuff like that, it's,

It's what should happen and it's what needs to happen and this is the stuff that makes people stay and want to come back. So I expect our attendance next year to get a little spiked now. It's not done us any harm. I feel like Arsenal reaches all points of the globe. We played this time last year, we were in Melbourne playing in Australia and the amount of Arsenal shirts that were in the crowd, it was almost more than the support that was there for the Aussies and

It's just, yeah, it's overwhelming. This club's special and the way that they promote us and the way that they lift us up every single day, it's obviously attractive for fans to join that. And I think we create a family environment where everyone's welcome from all different walks of life. And I think you see that at the game days. It's a place where people feel safe and they can be themselves and follow us and cheer for the same thing. And it's, yeah, very special to be a part of this. Was there a moment in the game...

where the belief factor changed for you. Yeah, it was actually the first minute. We were playing in their half straight away. We were pressing. Caitlin won a ball back and drove forward.

And then I just brought the whole team forward and we all pressed up and then we had them back there for a while. And I think that early on, I thought, okay, we're in this straight away. Because it's hard with sports. Sometimes you never know how the momentum is going to swing, how everyone's going to react to such a big occasion. But we were straight on it and we had so much belief straight from that first minute. I was exactly the same. Yeah.

I said to you, I think, after the semi-final, that this felt like a grown-up performance, that win away at Lyon, and no one really expected that. This is another step, isn't it, really? But, I mean, is it fair to say they almost outplayed Barcelona?

Yeah, I think one of the themes that's come from all the discussions after the game is that they were quite, I guess, okay with being uncomfortable in the game. And they knew that they would have to be. And I hope that this is okay to say because, well, I've said it before, but in regards to the men's team, regarding a bollocks on the line performance. Yes. I know. I don't know. So I, oh, oh.

I don't know if it fits. It felt like it was similar against Barcelona because I think from the first minute, I think I asked Steph Catley what moment kind of changed her belief that they could win.

she mentioned caitlin ford winning the ball in the barcelona half inside the first minute and it was exactly the same for me in real time that felt like a real big moment of just yeah saying we're here we're here to win and the application throughout the whole team across the game was just exceptional so yeah i think a real bollocks on the line performance from the women i

Which is not a sentence you hear very often, but I think it's right, isn't it, James? The players just deserve enormous credit for stepping forward in the way that they did. Definitely. And the manager as well. I think the performance of Renee Slagis is just astonishing in terms of how she's turned the team around. If you look at the journey they've been on, but the players have had to buy in and they absolutely have done. It's an amazing feat, an

an amazing feat and you know I think we're all collectively so so proud of them and I think as well you know Arsenal women are very much an established force they've got a really dedicated following at this point in time but I don't think you can underplay the significance of this

to the women's game in this country as well. An English team winning the Champions League, Arsenal winning the Champions League. It's going to generate more and more interest and I'm really excited again to see how when the season kicks off next year,

You know, there's going to be so much demand, so much excitement around the women, I think. Yeah, you're seeing the best team in Europe. Exactly. It's going to take it to another level again. You know, obviously the Euros was transformational really for the women's game in this country. But this is another catalyst, I think, that's going to kick things forward.

Yeah, and I think what's really special about that is to have players that have been involved in both of those moments. So Beth Mead mentioned being at Trafalgar Square for England's Euro celebrations and then being at the Emirates yesterday, but then also Leah Williamson. So she actually, we were doing the huddles for the interviews yesterday and there were three groups and Leah spoke for about 12 minutes and...

And one of the things she said that was quite interesting was that when she was growing up, she'd always say kind of trophies for England over Arsenal. But now she kind of felt like yesterday or the weekend was the happiest she's been in her entire life. Yeah.

Yeah, I heard her say that. And I think for her, again, she also spoke about chats she had with Tony Adams and Thierry Henry and how loyalty is one thing, but loyalty with trophies is something else. And I think her as...

as kind of a symbol of this Arsenal. It's really important that she's been able to get such a big, big trophy after so many years of waiting. Yeah, and the fact that she was a mascot at the first Champions League final and now here she is. Now here she is, vice-captain of the team for this one. Anyway, well done, the women. It's fantastic. It's great for the club. Come see the Arsenal! Come see the Arsenal! Come see!

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Kroger. Fresh for everyone. We thought, by the way, we'd let you guys have your say on the end of season awards. I don't know if you violently disagree with any of our choices. Any that stood out, by the way. James, any that stood out that you thought that we've missed something glaring there? You know what? I have to say, I looked at the...

signing of the season category I was pretty underwhelmed I've got to be honest like I think the guys went for Marino didn't they well yes we all well we mentioned David Raya but it seemed weird seeing as he'd been there yeah he'd been there a year Marino did great don't get me wrong but I sort of feel like he did great but he wasn't not in the position he was bought to play

When I look at that group of sort of Calafuri, Marino, Sterling, Neto, and I think about what they were bought for and what it was hoped they would do,

I don't really think any of them particularly delivered, to be honest with you. So I think Marino is a bit lucky to win that one for me. Yeah, but that's not really to do with our poor choices, but more to do with lack of choice, really, I would suggest. Yeah, I agree. I agree. I don't blame you guys for going for him. He is the right answer. But I just sort of didn't like having to pick one of those. And it made me reflect on...

last summer and think well I hope we get it a bit more right this time round yeah wouldn't it be great to have a choice of an array of brilliant players who performed magnificently oh it's so difficult to choose between Isak or Sesko yeah

For example, I'm just saying. All right. Any disagreement on the goal of the season? We ended up with Dettenham Rice's second free kick against Real Madrid. I mean, there were other mentions for Bukayo Saka against Forest back in August last year.

Calafiori against City, Mourinho against Real Madrid, just because, oh my God, we're 3-0 up against Real Madrid, and Myles Lewis-Skelly against City. But Detlef Reiss' second free kick, I mean, it was a thing of wonder, wasn't it, really? Yeah, I still can't separate it from the first. I know we spoke about it directly after the game.

But maybe that's me just being so indecisive. I just can't take them away from each other. So for me, they're kind of a joint goal of the season. And then I was chatting to Jay yesterday and we were saying, should we give a shout to some of the women's goals of the season? I think probably the best or most important other than

Stina's goal in the final was Mariona's in the semis. Oh, what a goal. What a goal that was, by the way. I mean, we didn't do this yesterday and that is a fair point because you know when you see a goal like that and she steps inside and she just rifles, well, passes it half into the top corner and you go, well, of course, of course that's where the ball should go because it looks so simple. But it was a fantastic show. This is Caldente. She goes for goal and

What a goal it is from Mariano Caldente. On the stroke of half-time, Arsenal lead by two goals to nil and are ahead in the tie.

Yeah, I think that just showed Arsenal now had a player who's just on a different planet. And the timing of the goal was exceptional as well, just before half-time. Also, a shout for Alessio Russo's second goal against Real Madrid. I think if you watch it back in real time, it just seems like an average goal.

But when you see the replay, so it's a free kick into the box and it's headed down, but the header down has deflection and she has to kind of readjust her feet and it's a volley. It's another one. And Alessia Russo has got another one.

And Arsenal have well and truly turned this around. And then Beth Mead scored a cross shot against Crystal Palace a couple of months ago, which I think people should probably look up as well, because she's not done it only once. She's done it quite a few times over the years. They get a fourth here. Mead's ball in. Yes, they can. She's rather apologetic in celebrating that one. I'm not sure that she meant that it was...

More of a cross-cum shot, but nevertheless it finds the top corner. And, well, Arsenal have scored four goals again. Good call. The only other one, James, I might mention was Gabi Martinelli away at Madrid when he was set through and...

Like I said, I've talked about this. I remember where I was and when that goal went in, the celebrations were as massive as for any of the goals in that game because we'd beaten Madrid in the Bernabeu. Off goes Martinelli and he's only got Frank Garcia with him and he's in behind him. It's Martinelli! It's the semi-finals for Arsenal! It's the glory come to Madrid! And they've won!

Yeah, special moment, wasn't it, in the season? I think you probably could have picked any of the goals against Real Madrid in either legs and you'd have a case for it. I also personally just have a particular affection for Myles Lewis-Skelly's goal against Man City. I know you guys gave that a mention, but as a moment, you know, with the celebration as well, hard to top. Yeah, I mean, actually, the moment of the season, I think I suggested that.

particularly actually the song that came straight after. But it was the whole thing, wasn't it, James? Miles, you know, he gets the ball in the area and people are shouting shoot, but he shifts it first, doesn't he, onto his right foot and then curls it around Ortega and then the celebration afterwards. And that's,

That was a moment when a star was born, right? A really special moment, yeah. That's right up there for me when I think of sort of the highlights of this season. Yeah, we'll do a couple more because I think it's hard to argue with one or two of them. But we had one...

James, I'll come to you first. We had one with the moment you change. For me, it's impossible to separate the kind of end of the January transfer window with the injury to Kai Havertz that followed a few days after. It was the old one-two punch that for me, you know, was kind of a knockout blow for our hopes of silverware, really. I know we kept it alive against Real Madrid, but so difficult to overcome that and...

I was saying to someone yesterday, actually, like if I was playing football manager or something and the window closed and a few days later, Kai Havertz was out for the rest of the season, I would have turned it off. Do you know what I mean? I'd be like, that's not fair. I would have been like, the coding's...

gone against me there. That's not right. Like it was replay the last days. Replay the last few days. Exactly. Because it was just like so incredibly cruel. I mean, obviously it was our own fault and it was on us that we went through January without signing. But what was the worst possible thing that could happen? Can't have us getting injured. That was it, wasn't it? That was it. Yes, it's true. I mean, notwithstanding Miko Marino out of position working miracles for quite a few months. Anything to add to that, Art? My mind went blank.

right back to the start of the season and it's actually surrounding all three midfielders who were supposed to be playing in midfield so Mikel Mourinho getting injured in his first training session Declan Rice getting that red card like a day later against Brighton and then Martin Odegaard getting injured a couple weeks later in the internationals those were the

the things that came to my head because it just feels like they started knock-on effects that affected Arsenal for the whole season. And which one would you pick out of that?

Because I'm having my Odegaard, by the way. Yeah, yeah, I'd have an Odegaard. And also, if we're going to go for a different one, I'd say Odegaard's shot against PSG actually going in instead of Donnarama being Superman. But also, I just wanted to mention on moments of the season, I did our kind of written version of this on the site and I included Ethan's goal against City in that as the moment because I just felt like it capped off the game in an

exceptional way to have both him and Miles scoring on that day against that team especially with how how much Ethan wanted the ball because I was sat in the east stand and you could see him calling for it for about 10-15 seconds and finally it came over and he just knew what he was going to do. Great pass as well wasn't it by the way? Detlin Rice just boomed it out there. And another one is also Hayland related but it was the Fulham game at the Emirates where Saka came back and

because obviously everything went perfectly for Pacayo that day once he came on. But also there were loads of little Hayland subplots with Alex Iwobi, Emile Smith-Rowe as well, who I think got a really big reception. So that stood out as well to me. That's a good call. On the Ethan Weneary scoring against Man City, James, I think I said this at the time, it felt like too much cake there.

You know, it felt like, and we were talking about cake earlier, you know, I'd had, I was all right. We were 4-1 up against City. Kai Havertz had scored. It was all fine. And then we got that and you went, well, okay, great. But I'd rather that would have happened in another game. But you know what? Maybe I shouldn't complain.

No, you can't have too much cake. That's my rule anyway. That'll kill me in the end, but there you go. Most improved player. I mean, we had Gabriel Magalhães and Jakub Kivior. I mean, I thought, James, that Gabriel Magalhães was an interesting call, really, but also...

Once I thought about it, I thought, actually, yeah. I mean, he stepped up. He became really the same level as William Saliba. Yeah, I mean, I suppose you could go for one of the academy boys, potentially. I think Jakub Kivior is a great shout because certainly he went up, in my estimation, over the course of the campaign. But Gabriel did go up a level. And I think, you know, absence makes the heart grow fonder, doesn't it? I think when he came out of the side in early April,

We've really missed him since then. I know Kivior's done well, but you look at our vulnerability on set pieces, maybe a bit of the aggression that we miss from Gabriel in those situations. So I think he's a fair shout. He's certainly elevated himself to the point where, you know, he's pretty close to William Saliba, I think, in terms of his importance to the team and

I'm sure we all want that reflected in his new contract. And can we just get a name from each of you for player of the season? Because we never really came to a consensus on this. Miles Lewis-Skelly. James. I think I'll go David Ryer, actually. I went Ryer as well. But we also had Big Gabby pre-injury. Yuri and Timber were the other possibilities from Amy. We've got some questions from you guys and we'll get to them after the break.

As you've probably heard by now, we've teamed up with BetMGM this season. We'll be using BetMGM lines to make all of our picks, and we'll have special offers for our listeners each week. If you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code THEATHLETIC, and you'll get a one-year subscription to The Athletic, plus up to a $1,500 first bet offer on your first wager with BetMGM. Here's how it works.

Download the BetMGM app and sign up using bonus code THEATHLETIC. Make your first deposit of at least $10, place your first bet on any game, and claim your voucher for a one-year subscription to The Athletic. See?

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Welcome to Money Moves, brought to you by Amazon Business.

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They get a handbrake off and you can see that they are more free to play. Ian Stone, Art de Rocher and James McNicholas here on Handbrake Off. End of season awards and summing up part two, your mailbag.

From A Rose. How many sheep do you realistically think you could fight at once? Perfectly fair question. I mean, are they aggressive, James, sheep? I'm asking you like you know. I don't know why I'm asking you that. I think rams can be, can't they? Rams. Different though. It's not what he said. It's not what he said. I'm just talking about sheep. Give me a number. Fight them off. Just like, I don't know, fight them off.

Five? Five. I thought you'd go more than that. Really? Yeah. So I obviously put a tweet out asking for questions and that was the first question that came through. Right. And I was on PlayStation with the boys at the time. So I asked them and they actually said five as well. And I was like, really? Like, surely you could have more because they can't stand up.

Like, they can't go, like, they can't stand on their hind legs. No, but imagine they're coming at you all angles. They're sort of buffeting you, knocking you. You know, I reckon a sheep with some speed is a force. Do sheep work together? This is what I'm wondering. Do they work? Well, if they have a shepherd...

Well, that's not why you asked, okay? I mean, okay, we're not talking about how many sheep you realistically think you could fight at once if they were directed by a shepherd. It's a completely different question, which we're not getting into anymore. You're asking if they hunt in packs, Ian, like velociraptors, basically. Yes, yes.

I don't know. Here's a question. Barry Green, do you think Katie McCabe will be sober in time for pre-season? Not a chance. Yeah, shaking his head. I just caught a moment of the trophy celebrations at the Ems yesterday and I saw Katie McCabe in dark glasses and I thought, that is a Freddie Flintoff level of celebratory drinking gone on there and good for her.

Right, so do you think she'll be sober in time for pre-season? Not if it's tomorrow. No, no, no, no. She actually, I think, was the best thing about yesterday. I think there was a point where they were just playing music for like 45 minutes. Right. And it was getting a bit like, come on, like...

You can't just keep playing music. And then once the team came out and Kate McCabe just brought the vibes, she started her own chant, which was quite funny. Started the, what do you think of Tottenham chant? Yeah, she did the Jack Wilshere. She played the Jack Wilshere role. Yeah. Well, she's proper Arsenal, isn't she? To be fair. I mean, she's been with us for years. Yeah. So yeah, she brought the vibes and yeah, I think a big part of the energy being as good as it was yesterday was because of her. Right. I'm going to ask you.

individually now these questions you can chip in if you've got a particular answer James this for you Jim Hallios given that Villa missed out on Champions League and they have FFP issues would you be supportive of signing Ollie Watkins if we can reinforce the left hand side with the likes of Rodrigo I mean there's a lot in there but what do you think

I actually don't mind the idea of Watkins as much as a lot of people seem to. Like, I think that there is a logic to bringing in someone who's Premier League proven, hits the ground running. I don't hate it. I'm not saying he'd be my first option, but I think he should be in the conversation. Another interesting...

topic on the subject of Villa is Morgan Rogers' future. If Villa aren't in the top four, we've seen in the past they've had to sell people for PSR reasons. Could he be another one who sacrificed now

I don't know. I mean, you might disagree with me. My only question with Morgan Rodgers is where does he play in a Mikel Arteta system? I have no qualms about that. Last week when we were doing the preview, or whether it was the week before, I don't know. It all kind of blurs into one. I think Ian asked, what team would you rather not get Champions League? And I said, obviously Newcastle. But I also said Villa. And it's because of Morgan Rodgers. I think now that they're in the Europa League,

go there and strike yourself show that you're Arsenal Football Club I know this is a lot easier said than done but worry about where he plays afterwards because he can play both centrally and out wide and I think if you were to kind of move on Trossard then what a piece of competition for Gabriel Martinelli like I think that would really really improve the dynamics of Arsenal in that area of the pitch I mean yeah on the Ollie Watkins thing yes

For me, it's a yes from me. I think he's Premier League ready and he can score goals. Morgan Rodgers would be a magnificent player to have as part of the team. Actually, this links up to Westy's question. The panel's ideal three signings, excluding ESAC, by the way. Our three signings, I mean, assuming that we're going to get three, I think we have to say that Zubi Mendy is one of them. And having watched clips, I'm more than happy about that. So if it's Zubi Mendy and two others, who are you having? So...

People who know me for what I do on Football Manager, I basically stack my team with as many central midfielders and attacking midfielders as possible. So I think I showed James one of my formations actually quite recently. Was it 4-6-0? No, no. It was a three at the back with a diamond midfielder and wingers and one striker. And the wingers were not actual wingers. They were number 10s playing that wide.

That being said, Rogers is one of them. I know Eze wouldn't be able to happen now that they've got Europe, but I'd love him. And James is going to shake my head when I say this name, because I don't think it's realistic, but Rayan Shirky. Like, wow. I know that's probably a sign-in of... Who's this? Sorry, tell us who this is. What? Rayan Shirky. Who's this? Yes.

Oh, Ian, Ian, Ian. Sorry, I concentrate on the Arsenal. I know what's going on there. I'll send you some videos. Send me some videos. Yeah, but videos, I mean, we've all got clips, mate. No, trust me. Even watching him for like a full game, 90 minutes against Manchester United, he was the best player on the pitch. He's basically the best dribbler in Europe.

And this year he's finally added end product to that as well. I find it interesting James has been quite quiet throughout all that. James, why have you been quiet about Ray and Shurkey? No, I've just been trying to think. I've been trying to think of my own answers. I mean, I like arts. So what was arts three? It was Morgan Rogers and Ray and Shurkey, who I'm going to watch videos of when I get off. And what's Striker? I don't really like... He doesn't want a striker after all the talk. No, no, no, no, no, no. I...

I haven't been able to get invested in all this striker talk because I have one preference and I know it's not going to happen. He's like Mikel. He's just fixated on Alexander Izak. And they're great players, right? Eze is the other one. And yeah, love to see him at the Arsenal. But again, it's hard to think of a team how we fit Martin Zubimendi, Detlef Reiss,

Morgan Rogers and Ryan Shirky and Eze all in the same team. I can show you the blueprint. James, any others you'd like? With the strikers, to me, it sort of feels like a bit of a toss-up at this point in time. I couldn't really tell you, Yocarez or Sesco, who will fare better out of those two. So, yeah, I'll go with arts. I'm happy with that. All right.

I'd love to see Eze play for the Arsenal, but he's not going to. He's not going to at the moment. I think we just have to understand that. And I wouldn't want to deprive Palace of...

of having him in Europe, to be honest with you. There is also a question from Mike Colpin, who said, with all the talk about big money signing, is there any player you would like Arsenal to sign who would be like a Jorginho-like signing, providing experience and cover for a low price? James, is there anyone out there who could do that sort of job? I mean, we're still a fairly young team, and it's nice to have someone like that around the dressing room who you know can still play. Yeah, it's not a bad shout, that, is it? It'd be good if I...

Had an answer. No, it's not an easy thing to answer, is it really? It's one of those that they'll bring in and you go, oh yeah, he's the guy. We might actually come back to you about this. I mean, it won't happen. It won't happen and he's not as old as Jorginho. But...

29. Okay. I don't hate the idea of like an Alex Iwobi, for example. I knew you were going to say that. I knew it. He has got the experience now and he's been playing really, really well for Fulham. He's been playing really well. He can play in a bunch of positions. And he's an Arsenal boy. So I wouldn't mind that. I saw he did a little interview. I think it's called the Inside Scoop. Sorry. And he mentioned after that Fulham game that I mentioned earlier, he...

quickly spoke to Ethan and Miles just to kind of kind of give them some encouragement on what they were doing to keep doing what they were doing he's one that I was actually devastated when he left because I was like heavy on the Wobes trade and I think it's funny that um Frank Lampard was the one to finally play him in his proper position so yeah he could be a left eight easy

I'd love to see that. Yeah, he could play. He could play. And he's grown into the player we hoped he would be, but never quite was at the Arsenal. Cartoon Steve Bold, if you could make one change for next season, philosophical tactical squad building, what would it be? Bonus points for not saying buy a striker. And that's fair enough. In terms of the philosophy, Art, I mean, I want us to be more attacking. I want us to be... Or more entertaining. Well, entertaining. I want us to take more risks.

Yeah, yeah. I think that's all what it comes down to. And we've spoken about it throughout the season. I think everyone has that yearning for the football that we saw in the 22-23 season. So hopefully with everyone back fit, you kind of have the tools there to allow a bit more freedom and risk-taking. So yeah, I'm 100% with you on that one. James?

I would, I don't know how likely it is, but I would love to change something in Mikel Arteta's... Brain. Brain. Yeah, so basically, I have this nagging feeling that like, the great managers that I grew up watching, you know, the Fergusons, the Vengas, all had this trait, which is that they sort of, they were gamblers at heart. Yes, that's what we're talking about here. Yeah, they love to take that punt. You know, they love to...

throw on a third or fourth striker or, you know, switch up the style of play and just get balls in the box. Like for all they had their philosophy, they understood the need to deviate from it. And I think that that gene is,

is slightly missing in Mikel Arteta at the moment, or it might be a step, an evolutionary step that he has to take as a manager. Because I think you need such a base level of confidence and self-assurance to be able to take that gamble that it's natural that when you're starting out, you don't necessarily have it. But I think to get over the line, I guess my theory is it might be something you need. Yeah, yeah, it does feel that way. On a related subject, Pinarzás,

If Mikel Arteta fails to win a trophy next season, should he be sacked? I mean, it's harsh language, isn't it, really? But in the end, it's a harsh world out there. James, we've got to win one of the big two next year, right? We do, but I think I would stop short of saying if he doesn't, he has to be sacked. I think context is going to be pretty key. Well, how close we get. Yeah, what happens? I mean, it's not binary for me. You know what I mean? It's not like he wins it, he can have it.

15 year contract he doesn't he's got to be out the door the next day i think we'll have to make a bit more of a considered assessment than that and aren't you nodding so i'll take that i'll take that as an agreement this time next year we only have one year left on this contract as well so it's not like you're kind of married to this guy for life we don't want to lose him on a free

But you don't want to lose it on a freeze, so I think... No. Dunno. No, I think you're right, James. Context is everything, really, and...

if they got so close and we all knew that they should have, but they didn't for some reason, you might be inclined, but it's whether the fan base could be sort of calmed enough at that point, really. Because we've spent plenty of time on this podcast when there have been our tether out people talking in the last few years because of our failure to win trophies. And we've gone, hang on a minute, hang on a minute. We're building something here, but you know,

You want to be building something towards a goal, which is Martin Odegaard lifting up a massive trophy. And frankly, whether he sort of could or should be sacked,

I have to be honest and say I just don't see that as a possibility. I sort of ask myself, who are Arsenal with Saki, Mikel Arteta? And I can't really answer that question. No, okay. So we're almost, pinners, we're almost dismissing the idea of the question. All right, sorry. Sorry, mate. Tim Moore asked, Max Dahlman. He's asking about Max Dahlman. Where can he play given Waneri and Odegaard are in his preferred position?

James, I mean, we've all seen a hundred clips of Max Downman. He looks very, very good. Art was out. Hey, hey, earlier you said don't go off the clips. I wasn't. I'm just saying we've all seen them. We've all seen them, I'm just saying. But Art, you saw him in Albania, for goodness sake. You know how good he is. I don't know, James. What do you think? Are we sort of...

Putting out too much hope on a 15-year-old? I mean, people are asking where he can play given two players are ahead of him. Well, it's also the fact that he's 15. Yeah, I don't think we need to worry about that too much. I mean, look, clearly he's got a ton of ability. He scored a brilliant goal last night for the England under-17s. Stunning goal, really, right on the byline. But I think...

If we see him, it's going to be fleeting glimpses. You know, it's going to be pre-season. I think it's going to be the odd domestic cup game, maybe off the bench. And my gut says it will probably be in more advanced areas. I think, you know, he might in future become a number 10, a number 8, someone who can be part of a three-man midfield. But,

I don't think you can ask that of a 15-year-old in men's football. And if there is a weakness in his game, it is on the defensive side because he's at that point where he's almost too good for the age groups he's playing in. He's got almost total freedom and luxury to do whatever he wants. So it's going to be a big adaptation for him. In fact, this year...

will have been weird for him because he's been really limited in terms of where he can play and what he's allowed to do. He's not been allowed to play with the 21s. He's not been allowed to play with the senior team. So, as I say, he's been in age groups where, frankly, the standard is not high enough really to challenge him. And so next year, you would imagine going from that

into the men's game is going to be a big challenge. And actually it might see his development for the first time plateau a bit as he adapts to the tactical demands, the physical demands. So I think, yeah, we should temper our expectations, but I also think it's all right to be excited about what's clearly a huge talent.

I mean, you wrote about that very thing in the piece when you interviewed various people about the coaches, about what they have to learn when they're stepping forward. And one of those things is the position you take when you're out of possession and where you should go. And he's still got a lot to learn and he's 15 years old. Fleeting glimpses is what we're talking about, right? Yeah, exactly. And I think when you look at how Mikel Arteta...

I guess, integrated Ethan Warnieri over those years. It was very, very kind of, okay, glimpse here against Bradford, then another the following year against West Ham. I think there'll probably be more for Max. Obviously he's shown, I guess, more at a younger age, but as James said, you don't want to just throw him in as a number eight against maybe a team in League One who's just going to kick the s***.

He's just going to do what they do against those types of players. So I think, yeah, Arteta and Arsenal will have to still be very smart about the way they do it. But obviously, he's a great, great talent. And related to that, James Parham asked, I know we all want wins now, but how do Max Dalman and Jack Porter impact the first team's transfer plans? Not that much, I'd imagine, really. I mean, they're going to go for players and

and if they're not available or if they need a rest, maybe Max Daumann and Jack Porter get to step in. Jack Porter did very well in the, did he play in the League Cup game? He did, he did. But I would say that like, it was a pretty exceptional circumstance in terms of, you know, the goalkeepers that Arsenal had available or didn't have available is more the point. And I would say that would be a fair bit ahead of schedule for him to have played that game. It's probably a nightmare being Jack's

mum and dad or manager at this point in time because he's played already for the first team at 16 and most goalkeepers don't make a breakthrough at senior level until about five years after that. So how they temper his expectations now, I don't know. But he's away with England at the moment, doing well. And I'd like to think that neither of those players should have a significant impact

on our transfer plans because I just think it's too much pressure to put on them. Yeah. Elzar actually talks about, is there anyone else from Hayland you believe could make the step and get some first 10 minutes this season? Art, is there anyone else coming through? It's really difficult to say at this point just because it feels like with Mikel Arteta, the talent has to be exceptional. Yeah.

to make that step because there have been talented players from the academy in the past who have just been numbers on the bench so thinking about Amario Cozy-Dubry and

Raul Walters, Mika Bjerreff who's now scoring goals for fun at Monaco, Amari Hutchinson as well so it's really difficult to say I think I'd want to see what happens in pre-season before I name check anyone and how involved they are because again even last pre-season I thought Salah, Ulad and Hand had a really really promising few games out in America but

he didn't make a single appearance for the first team. Never got a sniff. Never got a sniff. Elza, we'll come back to you about this. All right? When we've seen a bit of pre-season. James, I'll ask you this. Which photo from the Women's Champions League triumph should Arteta put in the changing room for the men to be inspired by for the next season? That's from KP. I mean...

I mean, any of the photos. Yeah. Really? They won the Champions League. This is what we hope and expect of the men next year. Maybe Katie McCabe in her sunglasses say, that could be you at the end of the season. 45 minutes of music, just play that. Go on, Art. So one thing, so I was chatting with Tom Canton from Football London, and he was like, out of the men's players, who do you think would take the Katie McCabe role? Oh.

And I was like, oh, good question. Because I don't really think there's an obvious answer. Maybe Declan Rice, but again, he'd have to have a lot of drinks to get to that level. He's teetotal as well, I think, Declan Rice. Yeah. Is he? Okay. Respect, respect, because I am as well. I mean, you do wonder about who would lead the celebrations in that way. I mean, I'd like it to be someone surprising. You know, David Rea suddenly comes out absolutely wasted. It's interesting because, you know,

You could say, it might be a provocative thing to say, that I'm not sure how much Mikel loves those sorts of characters. Do you know what I mean? I don't think it's co-introduced that we're looking at the squad and going, oh yeah, who's the one who'd be pissed up and doing chants on the bus? Look at his captain, Martin Odegaard, he's quite a vanilla guy.

man, a very nice, intelligent man. But, you know, the likes of Ramsdale are long gone, aren't they? Like, so I think... Maybe we need to buy one for centre-forward. Yeah. Right, just get a centre-forward who's like that. I'd say Big Gabby, actually. If I had to give a shout, like, Big Gabby's a big character. Like, he's a very vocal presence in the dressing room and a bit of a leader as well. So maybe he'd be the one. Actually, yeah, and there's

There was a clip of him going around during the season. I think he was streaming or something. And someone on the live stream commented, smile if you think Tottenham are... And he gave a cheeky little smile. He's got it in him. I'd say as well, by the way, particularly when he was in France, William Saliba, he liked to party on the pitch. There were games where...

you know, Saint-Étienne or Marseille got big wins and he was like, you know, had a flag out on the pitch and was like climbing up the fences to get in with the fans. So, I think we'd be looking. If you see him when, not when he scores, when other people score, he goes absolutely mental. Yeah. So, I think Gabi and Saliba would be too. Yeah. All right. All right. All right. Well, there you go. Saliba!

One more then. Gunaropolis, this is for you, Art. You've been in the press room over the past few seasons and have seen how Arteta and the press respond to recent campaigns. How have the press's and Arteta's relationship with beat writers evolved from your first season? I mean, this could be for both of you, to be fair. Yeah, yeah. But, I mean, is he being any less...

Are you enigmatic in his answers or are you just learning to read them better? It's a really interesting one because I think a lot of people, when I guess they go to ask him questions, they find them quite bland. But I think it just depends on the question you're asking, really, because I've always found most of the time he's been quite good with me. But that's not, I don't think that's because of me. I just think it's because maybe I'm not asking the

about the newsiest thing that day so he's kind of a bit more open to answering that but in terms of relationship that there's no relationship

there is nonexistent he I mean he probably wouldn't even know my name I don't think so um Paul C. Wood James I mean you what do you think about our we're best mates we're best mates we're best pals okay in fact he's here with you no he did give me a pat I don't know if you saw there was someone posted some footage from the press room he gave like uh he shook everyone's hand on the final day of the season and uh

he gave me a pat on the chest as he left the room. And I saw loads of comments being like, yeah, Gunner Bloggie's compromised as a journalist. Clearly he and Arteta have a close personal relationship. Best mates. Best mates. Best mates, as it turns out. I think he has relaxed a bit. I mean, like, I think, I don't know if he would have been quite as, I don't know how many chests he was patting five years ago. Do you know what I mean? And again, I don't think it's about me. I think it's about him being,

growing more comfortable in his own skin and understanding the environment and also maybe having a bit of

and respect for... And I don't count myself in this, but there are journalists who go to every press conference every week, who go to every game up and down the country. And I think on Arteta's part, there's probably a grudging respect for that. You wanted to add something, huh? Yeah, yeah. I would say he's got a lot more relaxed, I'd say, as well, over the seasons. I think he's...

At the start, he was very, I don't know what the right word is. Well, he's new. He had to act the part. He was new. When he arrived, he had no experience. So those press conferences were his chance to persuade the outside world that he was an authoritative guy who could do this job. And I think he went into it sort of like acting the part as a manager. Whereas now we're seeing him a bit more...

In his own skin. Joking. It's also the fact, isn't it, that we think about that time with the League Cup with that particular ball and he got asked that question and then suddenly he reads all this stuff saying that we lost because of the ball and there must be bits of him that thinks, see, this is why I don't like him because there's that sort of taking words out of context and taking answers out of context and I've got, you know, I'm on various Facebook and WhatsApp groups of other football fans of other teams who still talk about it and you think,

That's not what he said. So there's always going to be a certain wariness. But remember, again, this is his first gig. He's been doing this. If you think about someone like Ancelotti sitting in a press conference or Jose Mourinho or whoever who've done thousands of these, he's not at that level, is he? Yeah. And I think obviously those moments that get taken out of context, oftentimes it's not by the people who are in the room.

but it's by people online and that, that gets the most traction. But then I don't know, like, again, this is probably an interesting discussion to be had another time, but I don't know if he knows that people in the room aren't the ones that are taken out of, are not taken out of. He probably doesn't pay that much attention. Exactly. So, so then,

you can't really begrudge him for having his guard up at times. Right. Okay. Okay. Thanks for the questions, everyone. We really appreciate that, particularly the sheep.

I have to say. I will be thinking about that for quite some time to come. Are we talking about regular-sized sheep? Anyway, we don't have to get into that now. Lambs. I reckon I could take a good 15, 20 lambs. Lambs. Or lambs. It just sounds like a word that shouldn't be, and there should be a different plural. Anyway, let's have a song. To be honest, I haven't got myself together for this. Please tell me you have. I'm sorry I haven't, but I...

I want to use this as an opportunity to answer a question that was abrupt and it was from Ming and it was from Fuad. They asked me when I'm going to stream on Twitch again. And the answer is I still need to sort out my internet.

So I've been putting it off, putting it off. What's going on here? This is like Art just taking over the show to publicize his Twitch stream. He is. He is at this point. I would like to say that I am touring right now, but you know what? Guys, I've got a PayPal account. If anyone just wants to chuck me a few quid. No, no. I actually, no, I haven't monetized my Twitch. Sling a tenner my way. Anyway, Art, your Twitch account. Once I sought out the internet,

I'll try and do it this summer. But how are we speaking to you if your internet doesn't work?

You know what? Art and his internet. I mean, this has been going on since the internet began, really. It's the cables rather than the Wi-Fi. Is that what it is? The cable issue? Yeah. They are readily available. You know there are cables out there you can get. I mean, do you want us to buy? When's your birthday? We'll buy you some cables. He's looking at two cables. He's trying to decide. There's one cable he really wants. There's one cable he really wants, but it's just too expensive.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what's going on there. You haven't got a song then, is what you're saying.

No. All right, James, you've got some briskers. You're going to have to rescue us. Yeah, it's not a cheerful one. Sorry. For the end of the season, I just, I went for no distance left to run. Blur. Because that's a fairly depressing way to go out. No, but it's only for this season. We'll start again. You know, I mean, my God, we're going to get together every week anyway, through the close season, talk about various things. You know, all the incomings, we're going to have to have extra.

podcast, aren't we? Just as all these new players come through the door. That's it then. That's it.

for Handbrake Off thanks to Art thanks to James and thanks to JR producer and yeah we will be out there for the whole of the summer so we'll be in touch next week and watch Art's Twitch stream when it appears and go and see Ian on tour please and see James as well and bring me some food at the Emirates for God's sake bring me a little cake or something and

I might bring you one of them little Portuguese pastels. Actually, sorry, on that, we've spoken about food at the Everett's before and I don't know if you remember me saying, I just go to Tesco on Holloway Road and buy like

a pastry and a Coke to take in with me because I know A, it's cheaper and B, I like it. So why not just do that? Do you know what? He makes a fair point. He makes a fair point though, doesn't he, James? Really? All those cardboard pizzas you've eaten, you could have bought something healthier. You could have bought yourself a salad outside. That's me told, guys.

Next season, I'll try harder. What can I say? Yeah, that's every week. What have you got in the bag this week, James? All right. Thanks for listening. See you soon. Ta-ra.

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