Excellent in Europe as Arsenal close in on last 16
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The Athletic FC Podcast Network. The only way to score is, of course, to play with a handbrake off. Hello, I'm Ian Stone. This is Handbrake Off, the Arsenal podcast brought to you by The Athletic. Last night, the Arsenal beat Dinamo Zagreb 3-0 in the Champions League. The result means we're all but through the round of 16.

to reflect on the game. Look ahead to Wolves on Saturday. I'm joined by James McNicholas and Art de Rocher. Morning. Morning, Ian. Good morning. Morning. Before we start talking about the game, have you seen this collaboration between Arsenal and the Coke guy? Do you know about the Coke guy? I have to admit, the first time I knew about the Coke guy was when I read the script this morning saying the Coke guy. Yeah. Art's been talking about the Coke guy for ages. Have you? Well, alright.

Apparently, he's famous for always being seen wearing an orange coat and a Baker Boy hat. And he's always picked up by the cameras when they pan to the crowd celebrating a goal. Is this all true? It is. It's been true for about, well, the cameras have been picking him up for, say, two years. You're probably at most of the games, so that's probably why you don't see them, Ian. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Looking for the camera. Looking for the camera. No, it's me. I'm here. You know, you must have seen me. Yeah.

Oh, well, apparently, anyway, the club have released some new merch. The NPC coat, meaning the non-player character coat. Non-playable. Non-playable character. Oh, is that what it is? Non-playable character. I thought it's just like a guy who's not a player, but okay. No, it's a video game terminology.

I mean, I saw the picture. He looks like a player, I must say. The non-playable character. Okay. Which is in his honour. It's now available via Arsenal Direct. Because there's not enough fashion items to choose from, are there? Let's be fair. I mean, I haven't got Ruben by wardrobe for my regular clothes, to be honest with you. Let alone all the Arsenal merch. Do you have any specific clothing items you always wear to games watching the Arsenal? Any items you've got superstitions attached to? Will you be buying it? Art?

You're a fashionista guru on this podcast. What do you reckon? To be fair, when I first saw it, I was like, do we have to kind of make everything about money? I was just like, just let him have his coat and be the coat guy. Why does everyone have to get his coat? The answer to your question, by the way, is yes. Okay.

This is the Premier League. Do you want a new striker or not? That's my question. Yeah, to be fair, you're right. I probably wasn't going to buy it, but now maybe I have to to find a new nine. How much is it? It's probably about 180 quid or something in the shops. This is the thing. So when he first started getting popular, everyone found the actual coat on H&M and it was like 15 pounds. Well, I can tell you it's a lot more than 15 pounds.

Do you know how much it is, James? It's £80, I believe. Which is, actually, this is a coat we're talking about, right? That is, I mean, that's quite a cheap coat, to be honest with you. Reduced to £72, I believe, for members currently, so. All right, then, fair enough. Are either of you buying this, by the way?

No, it's H&M I feel for. Do you know what I mean? They pioneered the coat in many ways. Right, okay. Well, do you have any items? Do you, I mean... What, superstitious? Yeah, do you wear...

Not really. I wore that big Arsenal-looking coat yesterday again. You did. I saw you in that. Yeah. I was really cold, so I thought I'd go heavy. That was the only one that springs to mind, because whenever it gets below five degrees, that's out. Yeah, I mean, I've got to be honest, James. I mean, my superstitions, it's not really a superstition. If it's cold, I'll wear a coat. I mean, it isn't that...

Difficult. And I won't wear it on the inside, obviously, because I won't feel the benefit. That's the point, right? But what about you, James? I've been going beyond coat recently. I've been wearing long johns under my trousers. Oh, outstanding. Yeah, yeah. I always do that. So I...

Maybe I should have said that. What, all year round? Not all year round, not all year round. You do feel the cold though, Art. I saw him in the office the other day and he was wearing, I can't remember exactly, but I think basically a hat, scarf and gloves on the office floor. Well, my hair was absolutely terrible that day, so I needed the hat to stay on.

Tip your camera a bit, because look at the hair. It's okay now, is it? You're having a better hair day. Yeah, I don't have any superstitions. I don't. I've said this before. I said it in the live podcast. I was asked, do I have any superstitions? I said, no, because I don't live in the Middle Ages. But anyway. If the club want to partner with me to do a special range of Long Johns, then I am up for it. The James McNicholas Long Johns? Yeah. Do you know what?

I was going to say, would I buy them? I don't know. I think it'd be a bit weird. Anyway, Arsenal 3, Dinamo, Zagreb 0. Three goals, clean sheet, squad rotation. Really a very, very good night, James. I mean, it's exactly what we wanted in this sort of busy period, isn't it? Something low drama. Because there seems to have been a lot of drama lately. Yeah, it's funny. Going into the game, I sort of...

I wasn't as enthusiastic as I sometimes am, maybe because it was that kind of fifth home game and I was feeling that slight sense of fatigue. And I worried a bit about that. I worried about the attendance, the atmosphere, you know, how would it be? And then as it unfolded in front of me, I was like, actually, this is kind of ideal. This is sort of exactly what we needed as a club, really, to take a bit of a breather, have a game that was bereft of drama, come through pretty much unscathed.

And then also, at the end of the evening, sit back and take a look at our position in that Champions League table and maybe gain a bit of perspective, really, on where we are as a club and where we've come from. Because, you know, we are right up there. And this is a competition that two years ago we weren't even in. And I think for all our frustrations about what might be happening domestically, our European campaign, there's an awful lot to be proud of. Yeah, I absolutely agree with you. I mean, in the end...

Five wins, one draw, one defeat. And that was a tight one as well. This is an excellent Champions League campaign. And, you know, the fact is, if we...

don't get tonked by Girona. We're through. Right? I mean, listen, you know what? You have to go there and play the game and do it properly. And it does mean, by the way, that we can't just play the youth team in Girona because we're also, because there's a seeding thing, isn't there, in the top eight. So we want to finish as high up as we possibly can. Yeah.

Yeah, definitely. And I think going into the league phase, the big thing was just make sure you win all your home games. And Arsenal did that very convincingly. And I think as the seasons progressed, despite the injuries throughout, I think Arsenal

Every Champions League game, Mikel Arteta's gone very strong. The team's been very solid. Even in that defeat away to Inter, as you say, Ian, they were still in the game right until the end, I felt. So very, very impressive European campaign. And hopefully they're able to actually improve on last year as well in terms of what they're able to do in the knockout stages. Yeah.

quite uh detland rice scored 104 seconds apparently it says written down here in front of me i well believe it it was very early on um should have got a second from an absolutely fantastic cross that he should have buried was it who played that cross was it um it was ethan it was ethan wasn't it and we'll get to him my goodness will we get to him what a cameo but um

I mean, he looked really good, Detlef Rice, yesterday. I mean, I know a lot of people say man of the match. What do you think, Art? Yeah, I think he's probably close up there. I couldn't really decide on one because everyone kind of played well. But for me, the big takeaway was not just him scoring, but Martin Odegaard scoring as well. I feel like in the past few seasons, goals from midfield have been...

a real key to what Arsenal have been able to do. And they just haven't had that this year. So it was really encouraging to see A, his finish, but then Mikel Arteta did actually say he should have scored that header in his press conference. And I think he had a similar header against Manchester United that he should have scored as well. So straight to the goalkeeper, wasn't it? Yeah. So hopefully in the following weeks, he's actually not just showing up in those positions, but taking full advantage of,

as well goals from midfield James I mean we have been talking about it on this podcast and I'm sure

out there in the Arsenal fan base. You know, it's all very well. And Kai Havertz, by the way, who we'll also talk about, has now, what, 14, 15 or something? 14 goals so far, which is not a bad return. If he has a decent second half to the season, he could end up with 25, which there ain't that many strikers out there who are going to get more than that. But goals from midfield are so important. So Rice gets one, Erdogan gets one. Hopefully it'll kick-start the pair of them.

Hopefully. I mean, I think when Martin Odegaard put that ball away in the later stages of the game, you could see the relief written all over his face. He'd been waiting a long time for that open play goal. And I think hopefully that could be a big moment and a bit of a turning point for him. Rice, I just think Zagreb couldn't live with his physicality, you know, his drive. Mikel Arteta spoke about having

a different bite in his game. It was like he found another gear. In the last few weeks, I think we're seeing Declan Rice come back to his very best. He's such an all-rounder. There aren't many things that you think he could improve. I do wonder if that heading is maybe one of the things in his game he could be better at. Obviously, he takes set pieces for Arsenal. He's not in the box. And even when he doesn't take them,

He's often on the edge of the box, you know, waiting for the ball to break out. So for a guy of his height, I don't think his aerial ability is rated particularly highly. But that's maybe one area where Mikel Moreno has the edge in that position. You know, he's a similar size, but he's really, really good in the duels, climbs well, heads the ball well. I think if Rice is going to play that role, pushing forward...

We want to see him finishing those chances more often. He finishes well with his feet, though. A really nice one last night. Yeah, it was a really good finish. Kai Havertz, he was the UEFA Player of the Match. As I said, 14 goals in all. For the amount of work he is doing, he is working so hard and he just keeps chugging away. He's pressing.

I was glad he got taken off near the end and got a bit of a rest, to be honest with you, because he deserves it, doesn't he? He does. And I think when you look at not just the next four games, which are Wolves, Girona, Manchester City, so three games. And Newcastle after that, by the way. Oh, sorry. Yeah, that's it. Newcastle. Beyond that, I think he's going to be needed. So when you're looking at the injuries, Arsenal have already kind of racked up.

up he's probably on that list of players you don't want to pick up an injury and I think what Mikael Arteta did with Rice around the new year it's probably something he could afford to do with Havertz at some point too so Rice I think came off the bench in two games and missed one game completely so when you're looking at maybe the Girona game that might be one where

Havertz could get a rest, I think, just so you keep him as fresh as possible and able to kind of find a new level as the season progresses. Because I think, as you mentioned, 14 goals now, that's in all competitions. But realistically, in the league, you'd probably want him to get up to 15 or around 15. He's on eight in the league at the minute. So, yeah.

Good first half to the season from Havertz, but still more to come. Some high-profile misses, though, weren't there, James? That's the point. The one at Newcastle, the ones against Manchester United. The fan base got a bit edgy, didn't they, with him? And then all those awful social media messages to his misses. Mm.

His confidence, he is obviously a confidence player, but I do like watching him. Yeah, he had a bad week, didn't he, with the Cup games? I know we spoke about it a lot of the time. And the unfortunate thing is, you know, in this game, as competitive as it is, a bad week can change a season. And it may have changed Arsenal's, you know, not to put it all on Kai, but that bad week we had in the Cups was...

will have a big impact. You just did put it all on Kai there. It's essentially what you did there. Well, I feel for him because, you know, it is all on Kai, really, at the present moment in time. It is, that's true, yeah. With Jesus out, he is the centre forward. It was interesting, you know...

Leandro Trossard, I think, had a little stint there during the second half yesterday. And maybe we'll see a bit more of that over the coming months. That's an option that Mikel Arteta used to really use quite regularly and hasn't done so much of late. So we shouldn't discount that. Maybe he can ease some of the pressure on Kai. Because I agree, at some point, he's going to need a rest. Hopefully it comes because we get a new signing in before the end of the year.

Yeah, let's just contemplate that for a minute. Gabriel Martinelli. James, I love Gabriel Martinelli. I think he's such an amazing talent and he sometimes frustrates me a little bit. But when I see him playing the way he did last night, the work he puts in, the cross for Kai Havertz, absolutely pinpoint. Like I say, I do find it a little bit frustrating, but he's such a splendid player and they couldn't live with him last night, could they? No, and he...

He did well, I thought, on the right against Aston Villa, but he looks so much more comfortable coming from that left-hand side. Great cross. I think back to that Fulham game as well and the cross he put in for Bukayo Saka for that disallowed goal. That's an aspect of his game where he's so good. He can be even better, I think, more consistent with the delivery from that flank.

But you can never fault his attitude. I mean, I will say that for Martinelli. His form might fluctuate and perhaps he hasn't quite hit the level some anticipated when he was a little younger or his development might have plateaued a little this season. His attitude in every single game, whether it's Champions League, Premier League, Carabao Cup, whatever you want, is spot on. And I think that's why the fans will always have a special place in their heart for him.

I think Arteta faces an interesting sort of dilemma about those flanks though because you know what is the best balance I think in Trossard and Martinelli he's got two players who can do a job on the right but both ultimately look a little more comfortable on the left Raheem Sterling not really happening for on that right hand side so I think

The guy you sort of trailed early on and said, we'll speak about him later, Ethan Ranieri, does feel like maybe there's going to be a big opportunity for him on that right flank. Well, yeah. Let's talk about Ethan. I'm so delighted to see him back. I mean, I don't want to lump too much pressure on, what is he, 18? He's not even 18 yet. He's still 17. He's still 17. He's 18 in March. But he came on.

And he, because you sometimes think with players when they're coming back from a bit of an injury, they're maybe just easing themselves in. No sense of that with him. He's just taking people on and he went past their fullback at one point and just failed to get the ball into the centre and the cross for Detna Rice, missed header as well. Track him back. I mean, listen, we've talked about him so much, but he's such an immense talent and I want him in the team.

Yeah, I think those tracking back moments and there was another moment where he kind of went shoulder to shoulder with one of their players and won the ball and got a massive cheer from the fans. And I think those moments are just as important because they show how physically mature he is for his age and why he belongs in that, whether it's the start at 11 or coming off the bench. I think the big thing for, obviously Arteta will just be managing his minutes now because he is so young. I think,

the injury he got at Brighton was a reminder of that. But when he is on that pitch, you just see how ready he is. And in terms of that whole wing situation, I think this is probably the first positive headache Mikel Arteta's had all season. Yeah, options, options. We haven't had many, have we? No, because I was looking at Martinelli and Trossard earlier in the week. They both had really good weeks last week.

and then both played really well last night too. So I think wherever, say, Martinelli is asked to play, I think he'll do well. What really encouraged me yesterday was for the first goal, he actually used his left foot, which he doesn't do a lot when he's on that wing. And the cross was really nice for Havertz to cushion into Rice. So I think

All three of those players have made great strides in the past kind of week or so, and it should be encouraging for what Arteta can do from those wide areas. Come City, Oslo! Come City, Oslo! Come City, Oslo!

So it's a new year and you're thinking, how am I going to make this year different? How am I going to build something for myself? I'm dying to be my own boss or see if I can turn this business idea that I've been kicking around into a reality, but I don't know how to make it happen. Shopify is how you're going to make it happen. And let me tell you how the best time to start your new business right now. Shopify makes it simple to create your brand open for business and get your first sale, get your store up and running easily, quickly,

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Established in 2025 has a nice ring to it, doesn't it? Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash theathletic, all lowercase. Go to shopify.com slash theathletic to start selling with Shopify today. Shopify.com slash theathletic.

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And Leo Trossard, hundreds of Arsenal appearance. Were either of you around when Mikel Arteta and him had a sort of back and forth? Do you know what, James, do you know what happened here? I mean, they say he's naturally a bit of a moaner. Oh, I see. Yeah, yeah. Leandro Trossard. And I can absolutely get behind that because I love to moan.

I sort of made a comedy career out of it, to be honest with you. But what went on and what was the context? It was a few weeks ago, actually, Michel Arteta was asked about the kind of character Trossard is. And, you know, he landed upon the word, he can be a bit of a moaner, which was put to Trossard in the build-up to...

The Zagreb game. And he pushed back against it, shall we say. You know, he sort of argued, I'm not a moaner, I'm just a winner. I have very high standards, very demanding of myself and others. Listen, he's got a grumpy face. We can say that much. Unfortunately, he's sort of, I think they call it resting bitch face, don't they? They do. But amazing. 100 games.

In almost exactly two years. I mean, that's quite remarkable, isn't it? The amount of appearances he's racked up in a relatively short time at Arsenal. He plays most of the time, doesn't he? I mean, he certainly gets on quite regularly. So, listen, you know what? He had a great game against Villa at the weekend. He came on and was useful again.

So hopefully he'll keep it going. And like you say, Art, the options, the headaches that Mikel Arteta has to deal with, good headache. We like that sort of headache. Also starts for Jakub Kivior, Jorginho, Zinchenko, Raheem Sterling. James, you mentioned Raheem Sterling earlier.

it's getting to be a bit of a sort of joke around where we sit when Raheem Sterling gets the ball and the expectation is low.

shall I say, as to what he's going to do. I mean, it's difficult to know, isn't it? Because we started having a game of who's worse, Denis Suarez, Willian or Sterling, right? That's what we were doing at one point. I know, I know. But in the end, we pay our money and they pay some of that money to Raheem Sterling and he ain't doing it. Has he lost it for good or is he just not bothered or what? It's so weird. I think it's probably more of a confidence thing because when he came on against Manchester United...

I was actually impressed. He took on his man really well a few times, was able to get past him. But then,

come to the Spurs game Jed Spence is I think everyone could see physically superior and he just can't get around him but then come to the Dinamo Zagreb game he still can't get past his man it's really I'm not sure whether he's kind of lost that belief in terms of having that burst to get around his man he did try it once I think off the left and

and the ball went out of play because he just couldn't get around the defender. It's really a weird one to kind of see in real time, but I think you just see how, I guess, needed Waniere is when Sterling starts because he's not having the effect on the game that you want him to. And just on Trossard, I just thought I'd add...

in that 100 games he's contributed to 41 goals so almost contributing to a goal every other game which is ridiculous Decent that is decent James if Waneri and Sterling are sitting on the bench would you

waiting to come on. I mean, I'm not sure Mikel Arteta was even looking at Raheem Sterling. No, I mean, you think back to before Christmas, there were a number of games, weren't there, where Sterling didn't even get off the bench. We had a lot more sort of depth and options at that particular moment in time. But it was kind of night and day watching him and then Waneri. And you felt like Ethan...

he can sort of sense that opportunity that's there for him. And it was interesting listening to Arteta after the game, speaking about how he's learning that position. You know, I think he recognises, maybe a bit like Myles, you know, this isn't his natural game. It's not the game he's played for the majority of his career to this point, but it's where the opportunity exists right now and he's seizing it. Just on sensing that opportunity, I felt the same way for his goal against Brighton.

I mean, the ball comes over the top and I think most players, most young players in that situation would probably get under control, get their head up and look for a pass. But he just took the ball, drove into the box. And even though the shot was kind of central and the keeper probably should have saved it, it went in. And I think football's about those moments. I think so. And, you know, obviously, Ethan, right now he looks sharper than...

He looks quicker. He seems to have the athletic edge. We're projecting, but maybe it does just come down to hunger as well. And the point that they are at in their career, Ethan is incredibly hungry and it feels like that's what you can see on the pitch. And I think that's a big difference between those two players right now. Yeah. So, but Raheem Stanley was talking about trying to get back in the England squad. I mean, you know, where's the hunger to do that? Um,

Kieran Tierney made his first Champions League appearance for the Arsenal. Those crosses that Kieran Tierney does when he sort of pulls it back to the edge of the penalty area, no one else does that. Oh, you were nodding. No one else does that. I mean, is it done with Kieran Tierney? We're using him when we have to until the end of the season and then he's off? Because when he's fit, he looks more than useful. Every time I see it, sorry, I'm getting more frustrated every time I see him because...

I just don't understand how someone like that can be surplus to requirements. I get it in terms of his fitness record over the years, and it's probably a natural time for him to go with all the left backs that have come ahead of him. We've hardly got a left back, have we? That's the other thing. And I've mentioned it multiple times that he offers something so different. I mean, when you look across the Premier League,

Not every team inverts their fullbacks. Like Anthony Robinson has nine assists this season for Fulham. He does not invert. And I think it's such a valuable option to have when you're a team who can sometimes get stuck in what you're doing. But I'm not the manager, so nobody shout at me. Not yet. Not yet. Not yet. Okay. I mean, you got anything to add to that, James? Not really. I think Kieran Tierney's...

you know, an incredibly reliable player when he is fit. I know that's a, you know, a big if with Kieran, but I also am fascinated by the inverting fullback generally. Like it's a real trope at the moment in the game, but if we know anything about football, it's that it moves in cycles. Yeah.

And I wonder if in a few years' time we'll move away from that again. I'm just sort of curious to see. I feel like we're in the real thick of the inverted fullback moment at this particular point in time. And I'm curious to see how that develops moving forward. You're right, though, that these are trends that happen. They don't necessarily keep going. I read a piece yesterday that said...

hardly anyone plays a back three anymore and will they ever play a back three again and I honestly thought we should play a back three now and we sort of do quite often with the fullbacks popping into midfield every time I look up one of our fullbacks is in the central midfield position basically standing next to Thomas Partey I'm enjoying Man U's attempts to play a back three they can carry on with that

Yes, they can. Yes. Didn't their manager smash up a telly in the dressing room the other day? I mean, we've all felt like smashing a TV having to watch Man U recently. It's got to them quick, hasn't it? I mean, it usually takes a little time before they start losing their minds. A little cameo. Nathan Butler-Oyedeji, Champions League debut, 22 years old, joined the club when he was eight.

I mean, Per Mertesacker, James, sometimes was a liability when he was on the pitch, but he's killing it in the academy, isn't he, really? It was a nice moment, wasn't it, for him? And you could almost hear the crowd willing him to get on a little bit sooner or get his touch of the ball. It must be strange for him, like, you know, being part of that academy contingent, the first team squad, but he's like five or six years older than some of the guys who are playing every week.

Listen, he's been at Arsenal a long time and it's been a long time coming. And I'm not sure, you know, what his long-term future holds, but...

I'm sure it's a moment that he will treasure regardless of what happens in future. Quite. Currently, we did say this, third in the table, in the 32-team table on 16 points, five behind Liverpool, two off Barcelona. And we do want to get as high as possible, don't we? In the end...

As I understand it, there's a sort of seeding system. So, you know, the higher up we finish, we can avoid Liverpool or Barca. We don't have to play hopefully both of them. We get one of them and then we get hopefully into the final and play the other one. But we don't want to play them earlier on, do we? Because they look like the form teams. No, especially not Liverpool. It's actually weird to think they've won every single game in the Champions League. And obviously that's...

who Arsenal competed with in the Premier League as well. So if they were to face them at some point, it'd kind of feel, I don't know if you, well, obviously you guys remember like the Liverpool-Chelsea Champions League games in the kind of mid-2000s or something like that. I don't think there's been a Champions League run like that with a lot of English sides playing each other of late. But yeah, I'd rather avoid that until as late as possible.

Quite. Well, I mean, in terms of the English teams, uh, Arsenal, Liverpool, uh,

Liverpool are through, Arsenal are virtually through, Villa have got a fight on their hands to get into the top eight, and Man City may well not even qualify for the knockout qualifiers, which would objectively be funny, wouldn't it really? I mean, we have to say. And PSG, as we said, look much better than they did when we played them. James, in the end, with the Champions League, it's just nice to be involved. And as you said, it was good to see a crowd there last night and a decent atmosphere there.

And from now on, obviously Girona to come, but from now on, it's serious business, isn't it? It is. It is. And I think, look, finishing in the top eight, which is all but confirmed, is huge for a squad who have looked quite fatigued and looked quite stretched at times. I mean, it should also enable Arsenal to get away on that warm weather training break as well. So I think it's a win all round. And...

Yeah, listen, Liverpool are growing great guns in both competitions, but we're not too far behind. We're not too far behind. Ian Stone, Art de Rocher and James McNicholas here on the Arsenal podcast handbrake off for the Athletic. We're the back is champions!

They get a handbrake off and you can see that they are more free to play. This is Handbrake Off, the Athletics Arsenal podcast. Are you pleased to know, Art, that we are 7th in the Deloitte Football Money League? Liverpool are 8th, Tottenham are 9th and Chelsea are 10th. A revenue increase of 35%. I mean...

Those £80 coats, I guess. £80 coats, that's what it is. £80 coats, the money is rolling in. I mean, I don't know what I think about this. Listen, we're one of the big clubs in Europe and we know that and there's a lot of money knocking about and I guess it's good news, is it? What do you think? Yeah, for me, big whoop. LAUGHTER

Yeah, fair enough. I mean, it does increase revenue for signings, James, doesn't it? Assuming we can get round the rules. Not get round the rules, you know what I mean? Yeah, it is important, especially with Arsenal having PSL regulations to follow, not just in the Premier League, but UEFA have their own rules and participating in UEFA competitions means Arsenal have to abide by those. You know, only a certain portion of revenue could be spent on signings.

transfer fees and player wages. So this will definitely help in that respect. I think Arsenal have got themselves into a pretty healthy position there. Right. Well, assuming there's money in the bank then...

Is there anyone, sorry to ask this question, but you know what's coming. It's a week to go. Any rumours? Anything you'd like to start? Perhaps. I mean, the one we heard about was Mateus Cunha. I love watching him. Oh my God, I love watching him. Bit moody at the moment, playing for Wolves, and I'm not sure we'll see him play against us at the weekend. I certainly hope not.

Hopefully he's travelling down on the train to have a medical. But anything, James? Well, I mean, I think I said right at the start of January that he's a player Arsenal like and that continues to be the case. He's in a bit of a standoff with Wolves over a new contract this

It looks to me like they're trying to get him, you know, his camp are trying to get him out of there. The fee that I've heard attached to him is about £70 million. Now, I think he's a really good player, but that is an awful lot of money. It's a lot of money, but we are seventh in the Deloitte Money League. Good point. Good point. I think I don't see Arsenal investing in him at that level, to be honest. I think that if they did...

That would probably be their forward signing for 2025. And I'm not sure, as good as he is, I'm not sure what he offers is quite enough to justify that. I've got a sneaky feeling he might end up at Nottingham Forest. I just feel like that's a move that might make more sense. But I'm still optimistic about the window. Are you? Yeah, I am. I think Arsenal will do business. I think they...

they recognise they need to add an attacking player, that it's not a question of whether they can. It really is a need at this point in time. And maybe I'm naive, but I have faith that the people at the top will find a solution. I just hope it's a solution that sort of doesn't impinge too much on our bigger strategic plans. You know, it's all very well saying we need somebody now, but if it costs us the right player in the summer, I think we need to be a bit careful with that. Well...

Okay, but... Okay. I'm not quite sure how to react to that because you're basically saying both things are required, really. It has to be someone who's happy to sort of turn up and play essentially a starring role for the next five months and then step back gracefully when Bukayo Setsuka... No, no, no. What I mean is I don't think we need... I think if we could find... If there's a player that we want, like a Benjamin Sesko or whoever it is who is a kind of...

star signing who we really think can impact the first team and we can do that now then we absolutely should what I wouldn't want us to do is spend the budget on a player who we don't feel is really of that level and it prohibits us doing that in the future in that scenario where we can't get the principal targets I think you're better off trying to find a kind of bridging transfer like a lower cost transfer or a loan and

and keep the bigger plan intact. That's what I mean. Yeah, no, I do see it. I was being slightly pedantic. I mean, 70 million quid for Matthias Kunja. Like I say, I absolutely love watching him. There was a Zidane bit of control the other week on Match of the Day that my son sent me and we were just basically purring over this. And he's a wonderful footballer, but 70 million quid seems a lot. I tend to agree with James. Get someone in to fill a gap

A Raheem Sterling type player is essentially what we're looking for, but only someone who's producing. Yeah, I think when you're looking at January and when James says maybe Forrest for Kunja and you've seen Forrest bid for Johan Wisser as well. And I think Wisser is someone who could really...

I guess, be impactful in any strike force in the Premier League. He seems like a Trossard-type character to me. Not in the moaning. I don't mean in the moaning, but I mean in the cost of him. And he's Premier League ready. He's obviously been playing at a high level for a very good Brentford team. And he could really step up. Yeah, so that's kind of why I mention him because when we think back to Trossard signing, it was £27 million. Obviously, Modric had just gone to Chelsea for...

way more than that and I think at the time well he's he's exceeded his expectations of that transfer I'd say and you're looking at maybe someone in that ilk so I think Wiss is probably the best kind of fit for that in terms of a striker out there who's already had some interest in him in the Premier League I think if you're looking at the market and looking for an opportunity

he's probably the most obvious one there yeah i do love the word ilk don't you it's just a great word you don't hear it that often but it's a good word i won't keep saying it because it'll start sounding weird anyway uh walls uh three o'clock on saturday afternoon who get us retro cells playing at three o'clock on a saturday afternoon it's the eighth game of january uh

Which feels like it's gone on for about two months. They lost away at Chelsea on Monday. We beat them in the reverse fixture. Saka and Havertz scored. Riccardo Calafiori seems to be back. He's back training. Ethan Waineri. Saliba unlikely to be available. I mean, it's a must win, isn't it?

Like every game. They all are. Well, except for Girona, which is a must draw. Yeah, must draw, must draw. But the rest of them are must wins, aren't they? Yeah, I think this one, obviously going off the back of the Aston Villa game as well, you just need to keep that momentum going because too often this winter, Arsenal have won a game or won a few games and then drawn. One,

One of you, then drawn. You can't keep getting in that pattern for too long before your season's done, really. So hopefully this is the start of a run, but I've been hoping that for the past few weeks. So I'm not... I'm expecting a win, but...

we'll see what actually happens I'm beaten in 12 league games James I think it's 12 something like that I mean we are you know in the league sorry what are you saying but a lot of those are draws are they a lot of them how many of them

I can think of at least four. Yeah, that's a possibility. I know what you're saying. I know what you're saying. And we don't want, we definitely need to go to Wolves and win. And I would expect us to, James, with the players we've got. And amazingly, considering how many games they played and how little rotation there's been, they look like they had some energy again last night. They did. And, you know, you mentioned Califiori might be back. I think there might be an outside chance of Williams-Lieber having some involvement as well. That would be great.

We hope for good news from Myles Lewis-Skelly's knee scan that he's undergoing today after a knock he picked up against Aston Villa, jarred his knee there. Hopefully we'll have enough. I think it's a really important game that we need to win because you look at next week, we've obviously got the away trip in the Champions League, then it's Manchester City, a massive game at the weekend. So...

Fingers crossed we can get the job done. Saturday 3pm. I just hope we remember how to play away from home. It's been a while, right? I was going to say that. We're getting on the bus going, where are we going? Don't we play there every week? You know, as we leave the Emirates. Let's have a song to finish. James...

Listen, my song is actually cribbed from Art's intro in his write-up today for The Athletic, which is what they played at full-time, Vanilla Ice, Ice Ice Baby. They did. And I enjoyed Art's reference to that in the athleticism. All right, Art, what have you got? Just on that...

It was the first time I've heard it in ages. I haven't heard them play it in so long. So that's why it kind of stood out. Yeah. I mean, do you think Detlef Rice thinks, yeah, it's been a while since I played this? Yeah, yeah. Maybe too long, really. They're listening out for their song. Is it mine? Oh, no. It's been a lot of Havertz recently. Yeah. But my song today is Wolves by Kanye West. What if Mary...

Was in the club But she met Joseph Around hella thugs Cover Norrie And Lamb's Wall We surrounded by F***ing walls Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Nice, nice. Okay, cool. Sweet walls. Three o'clock on Saturday. I had a look...

I was thinking about Ethan last night, as I often do. Born, by the way, 21st of March, 2007. Feel good, guys? Feel good? Ah, you're positively venerable, old Art DeRosso, compared to him. I took a look at the charts for that week to see if there's anything suitable. Well, there was the Sugar Babes and Girls Aloud did Walk This Way, which I think is an aberration, really. I would...

I don't think we should play that. The Proclaimers, 500 Miles. Couldn't think of anything really to link that. Anyway, take that and shine. I like the song. Oh, it's not looking so keen. A bit cringe. Is it a bit cringe? In my opinion. Well, okay. But, you know, fair enough. There is a slight age difference. This is for the mums and nannas out there, okay? See the light on your face. Let it shine.

Let it shine. Because it's Ethan. It is your time to shine, mate. Okay? Now until June the 1st. Parade day. I think that is. Anyway, that's it for this edition of Handbrake Off. Thanks to James. Thanks to Art. And thanks to Robbie, our producer, who stepped in on Thursday because Jay's got more important things to do. Right?

Anyway, and thanks for listening and we'll speak to you afterwards. Ta-ra.

Or at least the top 10 leagues that I run on a football manager save. Follow this show today and you'll never miss another big story again, whether it's news that the Athletic has just broken David Ornstein...

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