Eyes elsewhere as Palace punish Arsenal
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The only way to score is, of course, to play with a handbrake off. Hello, I'm Ian Stone. This is Handbrake Off, the Arsenal podcast brought to you by The Athletic. Last night, Wednesday, the Arsenal drew 2-2 with Crystal Palace and effectively the Premier League title is over, if it wasn't already. To reflect on the game, I'm joined by Amy Lawrence and James McNicholas. Good morning.

Morning, Ian. Morning. Morning. Yeah, that was weird last night. And I've never been so tired at a football game, by the way. And we'll talk about that. But I know you've seen the interview that Myles Lewis-Skelly did this week. He spoke about his confidence and what he does to help it. And he goes, it comes from preparation. True. He said, from young, my mum has instilled in me the positive psychology of journaling, manifestation, gratitude, and ultimately believing you can be the best. Exactly.

Are you grateful, Amy, to be with me and James this morning? Oh, wow. I was just thinking about the concept of journaling and manifesting when I was 18, and that wasn't quite how I was going about life, so fair play, the lad. That's very impressive. I agree. It is impressive, of course, for an 18-year-old, but everything about him is impressive, isn't it, James? Did you journal and manifest at 18? Yeah.

Um, not as diligently as Miles, I would say. I used to do a thing, I still do it actually, where in January, I sort of write down things I want to achieve in that year. I never really go back to it, but it's odd how the act of writing it down often does seem to sort of work to some extent. Well, do you remember what you wrote down? I mean, you don't have to tell us what you wrote down this year, but I'm saying, do you remember what you wrote down so you can, at the end of the year, you know, in December, do your sort of...

You know, appraisal. Yeah, kind of, yeah. And so you have good years and bad years, but you have more good than bad. I'm not sort of...

But, you know, Miles is very, very into that kind of way of thinking, visualization and goal setting. I wouldn't say I'm necessarily like that, but I do just think the act of putting something on paper has a kind of power to it at times. Quite. Amy, did you ever do anything like that when you started your career? Well, I make lists, but that's because I can't remember anything. I'm not sure if that really qualifies in answer to...

You're saying, but I still make lists. I'd be lost without my many lists, most of which I don't look at again. I've got, well, I could show you like piles of lists, backs of envelopes. For those listening, for those listening without the aid of visuals, Amy just showed us a pile of what? I don't know what it was. Back of envelopes, basically. Right, okay. Yeah, I mean, you know, really seems ludicrous nowadays. I think when you look at Miles, I just think...

There is a sweet spot when you're young and you've got enough about you to know what you're trying to do and how to do it. But you also have this beautiful, bold fearlessness where you don't get scared. I think the older you get, the more you overthink, the more you get a bit worried and anxious. But there is that beautiful moment where all that external stuff doesn't really penetrate.

And a long, long time ago, I do remember probably at the start of my career, that was one of the great things was just being excited to do it, feeling just about like I could wing whatever it was that I was supposed to be doing, but also not really looking around and worrying what other people were thinking about it. And I mean, cool, I wouldn't mind going back to that kind of mindset. Yeah.

How lovely. Speaking about sort of gaining confidence early in your career, it is nice that thing of sort of not worrying about what anyone else thinks. But sometimes the support or, you know, a commendation from someone else can mean a lot to you. I don't want to embarrass Amy, but I remember very clearly and I've actually found the email just now in my emails in 2010.

I had an email from someone called Amy Lawrence, who was the guardian at the time. And it said, hi, James. Andrew from Askblog gave me your email address. I just wanted to say I thought your piece on the Walcott conundrum was excellent. If I had read that in one of the national newspapers, I would have been impressed. It was very well composed, argued and thought provoking. Well done. All the best, Amy. And I didn't know Amy at that time. I think that was the first time she ever had any contact with me. But I've never forgotten it.

And I think it's one of those things that really made me think, oh, maybe I can, maybe I can do this, you know? And so it always meant a great deal. And I imagine if you're Miles, similarly having the faith of people like Mikel Arteta or your more senior teammates, that can be a very inspiring thing too. Yeah. Well, first of all, how lovely, Amy.

I think I've got a little tear in my eye. Those things mean a lot, you know. I'm such a believer in giving people praise. I think we're in a world where everybody's very quick to criticise in any form of whatever you're doing. You know, a bit quick to aggro. And I spent my entire life thinking it's really important to say thank you and well done and stuff like that when...

you think that something is impressive and

So, yeah, I'm glad I did that, James. There you go. I'm a bit amazed that you remembered it and that's really lovely. And it's had terrible consequences. It's unleashed me on the world. What a disaster. What about you, Ian? Well, do you know what? I was never particularly confident, certainly when I started doing stand-up. But I guess it takes a certain amount of stand-up, a certain amount of confidence to start doing something like stand-up comedy, doesn't it, really? To actually stand in front of people and go, yeah, I think they're going to find this funny. In terms of the mentoring...

This is essentially what Amy did with you there, just sort of helping out. I think that I absolutely agree that stuff is so, so important. And I try and do that as much as I can to newer comics. And it's amazing. I've had people come to me and say, oh, you said a thing to me that made such a difference and it was so inspiring. And you think I have no recollection of that at all, but it does mean a lot.

And I certainly had a few people when I started who were really nice to me and I've never forgotten it. Go on, Amy. James, can I ask if you've had similar experiences with acting and comedy and your, you know, the other work that you do? No, everyone says I'm rubbish at that. I sent you an email actually telling you how bad you were at the stop. A very long email. No, I have, I have. And again, it's...

Yeah, little things. It's interesting the ones that you hold on to, I suppose. Little sort of moments that, you know, just give you...

It could be advice. It could be something, you know, why don't you try this? Why don't you change that? Or it might just be that they thought it was good or funny or worthwhile. And yeah, they keep you going in that early stage when you don't really know who you are or what you're doing. So I think they're invaluable. And I try to do the same now. I mean, you know, I'm getting older. I always remember when I started at The Athletic, they were like,

We're going to set up a mentoring scheme for some of the younger writers. And I was like, oh, great. I wonder who I'm going to get.

And they were like, no, no, no, you're at the other end, mate. You're not getting a mentor. You're old now. And I try and sort of pay it forward, as it were, I suppose, you know, as Amy did with me. It is also nice when you see someone like Bukayo Saka and the way that Righty talks about him and the way that Thierry Henry talks about him. And you can see how much it means to him because you're sort of following in the footsteps, aren't you? Yeah.

But certainly, Myles Lewis-Skelly doesn't seem to lack confidence, going back to the original point. And, you know, long may it continue as well. I was sat next to our Crystal Palace correspondent at the game yesterday. And early on, he asked me, I thought, a really good question about Myles. And he said, you know, comparing him to other great youth products that have come through over the years, you know,

Does he fit in that category? You know, how do you place him? And I thought that was a really brilliant question, which I'd quite like to spend a bit more time thinking about. But, you know, when you look back over 30, 40, 50, 60 years or whatever of people coming through, he certainly has shown in this season every indication that he could and should probably go on to be as elite and as important as

as some of the very best who've ever come through. It's quite early to make that assessment just now, but your gut says he has everything that you need. You're not the only one saying that, Amy. I mean, I heard somebody saying the other day the England left-back spot is sewn up for the next 10 years because of him. And I thought, he's not even a left-back, for goodness sake. But anyway, yeah, I...

very, very top echelon, I think. That's certainly the hope and it certainly started very well. Come see the Arsenal! Come see the Arsenal! Come see!

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Should we talk about a game for a bit yesterday? I mean... I suppose so. I saw you, Amy. There was a certain sort of resigned look after the game. We sort of had a sort of I'll speak to you tomorrow look. Well, genuinely, at the point that I saw you, normally we engage slightly after games when we see each other. But I was...

In that sort of frozen thing where my brain was like, I've got to come up with an idea of what to write about here and I have nothing. And I definitely asked two or three of the journalists that I saw. And I think James, when we exchanged messages, I said, look, I'll give you a tenner if you give me an idea. You know, I was feeling quite desperate about what the theme would be.

Just because it felt like a bit of a throwaway game, essentially. One that sort of happened, doesn't really have any lasting value in terms of analysis. And it's just one to put aside, especially given circumstances. That's a bit trite, really, because obviously it does matter in terms of the Premier League finish. But it did definitely have that ambience of...

a bit of a throwaway game. They've all felt like that, haven't they, James, the last few weeks? Brentford, Everton, they all, you know, Ipswich, it was a nice stroll in the afternoon sunshine and what have you, but that's because we're playing not very good team and we did look good. But other than that, they've all felt a bit like, oh yeah, never mind that, we've got a big game next week.

Yeah, a little bit. It's a slightly odd thing, isn't it? The oscillation between the massive highs of the Champions League and then the slightly underwhelming Premier League fare. I think this one was all the more strange because it represented exactly the same thing to Palace. You know, they've got an FA Cup semi-final at the weekend. Well, they're taking off like Eze or Wharton, they took off. Two of their best players at 60 minutes being 2-1 down. And you think, well, we should really win from here. But...

Yeah, it had that feel, didn't it? But equally, I know what Amy's saying. It is tempting to just sort of write it off and consign it to history as a bit of an anomaly. But there are things within this game that are part of broader patterns across the course of the season. You know, the number of draws, the giving away leads. That I think...

They are kind of themes that have run throughout, even if this particular instance might feel quite isolated in terms of why and how it came about. Do you think, James, that Mikel Arteta will be annoyed by that performance? I think so. He certainly looked it on the touchline. I thought he was going to tear into him at half time. And I thought the second half was worse.

Yeah, I think he has been a bit frustrated about the league performances. I know that we as fans might have a clear priority, but Mikel Arteta being the man he is, I suspect he looks at that Premier League table with...

a degree of regret, actually. Like, I know Arsenal have done tremendously well to maintain second place and they've overcome all sorts of obstacles, but... And he said it as well. He said Mikel Arteta, with all the injuries, he thinks that maybe people aren't appreciating what we've done. I think that is fair, but I also think he probably thinks there's about...

eight or nine points that he's left on the table there or not on the table as it may be. You know, if the season ends as we all hope it does, then that will be forgotten. But I do get the sense he's a little bit frustrated even if he is understanding. I remember when we drew at Goodson Park a few weeks ago. I wasn't actually there myself but I had a few colleagues who were and they said he was absolutely frustrated

you know, apoplectic on the touchline, Arteta. And that was a game that I think many of us as supporters had already kind of gone, well, you know, the league's not really the thing at this point in time. But I just think every single match he wants to win and that mentality is something he's instilled at the club. And,

It's what brought us the progress that we've had. So you have to respect it. What about switching it off and switching it on again, Amy? Because I always thought the whole momentum thing was so important. But in between playing Real Madrid, we played out some pretty drab draws and it didn't seem to matter when we're playing Madrid. So maybe...

If you're going to take positives, you go, well, they get the mistakes out of the way and Mikel Arteta says, all right, all right, we'll let it go because you've been brilliant all season, but do not do this next Tuesday or the following Wednesday. And maybe that's what you take from a game like that. Well, I think before both Madrid legs and before the 7-1 at

psv arsenal had pretty uninspiring draws so yeah there doesn't seem to be a kind of correlation between what's going on domestically and what's going on in these big european matches and yeah let's hope that that continues something that is evident you know next week against paise ashram although having said that we don't really want to be um

too flat in the in-between game of the two legs of the semi-final, which is, I think, Bournemouth at home. No. Because re-qualification for the Champions League and finishing as high up in the table remains pretty imperative. And, you know, not all the games are easy. Liverpool, Newcastle both look potentially quite tricky, let's be honest. And a relaxed Southampton. Well...

I'm just saying. Mikel Moreno and Ben White both out last night. Also, Bukayo Saka didn't start. James...

I mean, obviously, Mikel Arteta wasn't sharing a huge amount. They said they weren't fit before. Do we know any more? No, I don't actually at this point have any more detail. I'm hoping it's precautionary, particularly in the case of Mikel Marino, who I think has been so important to those Champions League games. But we'll have to wait and see. And knowing Mikel Arteta, he'll keep us waiting as long as he can.

Quite. Let's talk about some of the positive. Jakub Kivior. Amy, you were really positive about Jakub, you know, when he came in against Madrid and most of us sat here. I remember me and James sitting here and talking about how we'd bring Ben White into centre-half and...

Mikel Arteta said no, Kivio starts and two outstanding performances and another one really last night and he scored the goal after three or four minutes. Great header from a long way out. His confidence is really growing, isn't it? And that is good management, isn't it, from Mikel Arteta? Yeah, well, he's seized his moment, you know, and you have to when you're one of those players who is on the periphery at times, you know,

It's not always easy to just come in out of nowhere and be on point. But I think it's a credit to him and everyone around him that he's come in with such a focused mindset and a positive mindset. And he's not, you know, it feels like it might be a phrase that will be on a T-shirt or depending on how things go over the next little while, but

There was that little clip of Declan Rice in the tunnel when the boys were lining up before the game in the Burnabout. They're just about to come out and he says, nothing to fear. And I feel like nothing to fear has been a bit of a motto of this, you know, this late run in the knockouts in the Champions League. And,

He's picked it up and run with it, Jakob Kivior, which is really impressive given that having a long run in the team to get yourself informed, get yourself feeling confident is something that he was not afforded. You can look back on every successful team since the year Dot and you'll find players who are kind of happy surprises, players who are a bit cult hero-y, who have...

come in from an unusual circumstance and you need those guys. And I think when you look at Jakob and Mikael Marino, who you just mentioned, they're people who probably at the turn of the year were quite far from people's minds in terms of being instrumental. And yet,

Right now, they both feel absolutely instrumental going into the Paris Saint-Germain game. Yeah, James, I couldn't imagine a time when I'd be going, oh my God, I do hope Mika Marino is fit because he's the only guy who's, I mean, 11 goals and assists.

since whenever it is since he came into the team he's done an absolutely stunning job so hopefully he'll be fine for the first leg next week James the Palace goal I mean I know they obviously have the set piece coach has obviously got a way we've got a way of defending but is it normal to leave their best player on the edge of the area completely unmarked because both

Jay and David on the other side of me both went, is Eze on his own? Is that a good idea? And obviously we've got a way of defending these set pieces. I did read a stat that said actually defensively in set pieces, we're not great. I mean, it was a beautiful volley and everything, but he had time to hit it, didn't he?

It's interesting. Yeah, I was reading something last night about how teams that are really effective on attacking set pieces, it's not always the same that they're good at defending them. You know, the correlation isn't always as clear as you might imagine. In that particular case, it does seem a bit of an error, doesn't it, to leave Eze on the edge of the box. That said, I think if they...

take that corner kick a hundred times and he hits a hundred volleys, you know, I wouldn't bet on too many of them going into the bottom corner and off the post like they did. So it's, I think you've got to give the player some credit as well. It was a, you know, a well-executed finish. Yeah. The other positives, Leo Trossard,

Really, I like the confidence he's playing with at the moment, Amy. I mean, he got the goal, good hit, slight deflection, but he is such a confidence player, isn't he? And right now he looks pretty happy playing in that team. I mean, assuming that Mikko Marino's fit, I can't see him starting against PSG, but he's a useful weapon to have off the bench. Also, he seems happier when he's angry for some reason. Yeah.

if you know what I mean. Yeah, I think there's every chance he does start just because of the party situation and there not being a very obvious player to replace him. I think he'll start too, by the way. I've been wrestling with this a lot because instinctively after the two legs against Madrid, I want Mourinho to be the man in that position up top in between Saka and Martinelli. I want Declan Rice to be in the position

in an advanced midfield place where he did such damage and was man of the match twice. And to kind of interfere with both of those things and reposition both of those players because of Partey's absence, which would mean Trossard starting up top, it looks like that's one very obvious selection.

So I think, yeah, there is a good chance that he starts. But I mean, we are quite strange, really, the way we play. I mean, I know it was only, it was a strange game, as we've mentioned. But quite often I looked up and Trossard was in the centre circle and he was ostensibly playing as a striker. And Odegaard was back exchanging passes with, you know, as an auxiliary centre half. When the Mateta goal comes about.

So, yeah, maybe I think just being able to be playing high up the pitch, making sure we've got players that are right up there in the Champions League is really important. But, James, we do know with Leo Trossard, yes, he was dropping back and receiving the ball. I was quite encouraged by that. But we all said that if he gets a chance, he'll hit the target.

Yeah, I have to say I really like the way that he's taken his chances over the past couple of games. There's been a real efficiency about his finishing. You know, he just seems to have found the most sort of cute angle to score the goal. Like even at the weekend, that little nutmeg just to pass the ball into the net. I thought it was really astutely done. I'm kind of with Amy. I love the structure that Marino brings and I think he's done terrifically in the role.

But I just think with the absence of Partey through suspension and Jorginho, you know, seemingly... Injured. Quite significantly injured. I just don't really see another alternative. No. I do think that Mourinho...

showed at Ipswich that even when playing in that kind of left-sided number eight role I think the time playing up front and Arteta has spoken a bit about this has given him sort of a different understanding and appreciation of the way he can make his presence felt in the final third so I

I wonder if it will feel a bit more akin to the kind of front two that we saw sometimes with Havertz and Trossard, with Mourinho taking that role on as a kind of advanced supporting midfielder. But yeah, it is a shame to have to change after, obviously, the brilliant success against Madrid. Quite. And the equalising goal for Palace, bad mistake from William Saliba. James, are you worried about...

William Saliba. I mean, it's two errors. I personally think that David Reyes shouldn't have rolled the ball out to him in Madrid, but at the same time, he got caught. And this one was just slapdash, really. And he put Martin Odegaard in big trouble. And yes, it was a great finish. And Mateta, he's a handful, that guy. But...

That's two mistakes. And I saw, I was watching William Saliba when he came off and he was sort of shaking his head a little bit. But his head's looked a bit fuzzy. I mean, other than that, I think he's played very well. But you make errors in Champions League games or obviously in the Premier League as well. You get punished and I'm a little concerned. How do you feel about it? Yes, I like him. I saw a stat today that he's committed more errors leading to goal in his last three appearances for Arsenal than in the previous 126 combined. So, yeah,

it's fair to say that timing yeah timing and also like like just an unusual little patch of uh errors from him i mean he's not got his mate next to him has he gabrielle as well as jacob kivior has done i imagine there's a certain sort of confidence and assurance that comes from having your regular partner alongside you i think at this point two errors i'm prepared sort of

You know, Wright offers an anomaly, but there's a little niggling doubt there in the back of my mind that, you know, if he has entered a patch of slightly worse form, that could be an issue. It is odd because I sort of agree with you. He's sort of been imperious apart from those errors. But when you play that position, an error can lead to a goal, right?

Amy, anything to add to that? James just kept nodding away. Yeah, you did. I have no worries about him. I think he's a phenomenal player. And I think, yeah, he's been terrific. Yeah, I think I'm not worried that he suddenly hit the rocks at all. Mistakes happen sometimes. And he's one of those players I trust in the same way that I trust Saka. And when the penalty happened in Madrid...

It didn't affect how I felt about Bakayasaka at all. I wasn't worried that it was going to affect his performance overall and obviously he came back to be brilliant for the rest of the game and decisive. Yeah, I'm not worried about Saliba at all really. One thing I thought was interesting, Oliver Glasner was speaking after the game about how

Palace had looked at David Raya's positioning. Yes. And how high he plays. I think Adam Wharton had an attempt earlier in the game. It's obviously an aspect of our play that really helps Arsenal control games. But, you know, I do wonder if it's also something that the opposition might start to pay attention to. You know, long shots have kind of gone out of the game in a lot of respects. But when your keeper's 30 yards from his goal, it might be worth a go.

So, yeah, I'm just sort of curious to see if there's any knock-on effect from that going forward. Well, OK, we shall see. We'll take a break and then we'll talk a little bit about a few other bits and pieces around the club. Ian Stone, Amy Lawrence and James McNicholas here on Handbrake Off, the Arsenal podcast brought to you by The Athletic. The Athletic is coming in!

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This is Hand Break Off, the Athletics Arsenal podcast. Is the Zubi Mendy deal done, James? I mean, it's not done, but it seems like people are acting as if it is done. It seems like a lot of confidence. Yeah, confidence is the word that I keep using. Arsenal are very confident. I mean, no, it's not done until it's done, Kenny thing. But it was quite interesting being out in Real Madrid and speaking to

you know, our correspondence on the Madrid side about their reported interest in Zubin Mendy. As far as they know at this point in time,

you know, that's not something that's a focus for Real Madrid. If Real Madrid appoint Xabi Alonso and he decides he really wants Zubimendi, that could potentially change things. But as things stand, Madrid think he's headed to Arsenal. So, you know, I wouldn't go and get your shirt printed at the Armory just yet, but you can certainly, you can certainly, I think you can afford to dream and think a bit about what an Arsenal midfield with Zubimendi might look like next season. Quite. And there's also talk about Dean...

Howson, Heysen, 19, centre-half. Is that what we need, Amy? Do you think? I mean, there's priorities further up, aren't there? Yeah, but I think it depends on all the moving pieces of the squad. You know, there is the potential, the likelihood for some sales as well. And if they think that they can cash in on someone in that area and get

a replacement in who they are interested in, then that might happen. I don't know. He's obviously a very talented young player, so...

Quite, quite. Listen, you know, the guy, Andrew Burt, has just come in. I'm sure he's watching lots and lots of people. These things will develop. There's also, by the way, a campaign. I was walking to the ground last night and there was a big poster saying, Visit Tottenham. And when you read closer, it was about how we'd rather go there than go to Rwanda, where we have on the shirts and what have you. I mean, Amy...

When you talk about human rights and football, it's not that I think the ship has sailed, but to a certain extent it has, isn't it? I mean, I'm not saying that I particularly want my club to be involved with Rwanda because I don't. But this is not just something that affects us. Maybe we don't have to worry about other teams. We just go, well, do we want Rwanda on our shirts or not? And it should just be a decision about that. What do you think about all of this? I think that football puts...

fans in a really impossible position sometimes because of the political landscape, because of finances. Where do you draw the line? We can take a moral stand about things we believe in individually. Can we affect the club if they can make money from things? I don't know what the answer to that is. I admire the people who have come up with a really smart campaign. But yeah, I've felt that football's sort of

Moral compass. It's been problematic for a long time now. Look, even when we talk about Newcastle and the Saudis and stuff like that, it's really easy to sit on the other side of the fence as supporters of another club and be super critical.

But ultimately, if you're an ordinary Newcastle fan and that is foisted upon you and you cannot do anything about it, what do you do? Do you not go? Do you tear your football heart out and chuck it away and say, I'm not going to support my club anymore? Well, some people have, haven't they? Some people have stepped away. It's really bloody complicated. And I don't think there's a simple and straightforward answer. I think that it's absolutely legitimate for football

people to put their message across to clubs if they feel that they're making money out of nefarious means and hope that the club will act. You know, when they're halfway through a contract, I don't suppose they're going to act. James, I think you might have a bit more on this from the club's point of view. You know, the contract runs beyond this season. How much longer do we have? I'm not actually sure, Ian. I know that Visit Rwanda is planned to be on the shirts next season.

So it's at least that long. I think it's a really complicated one because... It is. I think Arsenal... I don't know if this is a bit sort of taboo to say as an Arsenal fan, but I think Arsenal do slightly position themselves as a club who do things the right way and who have a certain degree of moral high ground in a lot of situations. I think principally of kind of, you know, the sort of...

Behind closed doors war with Man City really about expenditure and finance and where money comes from. And I do think that that position is somewhat undermined by some of these things like the Visit Rwanda deal. As Amy points out, we are partway through a deal and it's a deal that was done by people who predominantly aren't actually with the football club anymore.

I think it's pretty difficult to extricate yourself from that once you're in it. It's a contract. How bad would they have to get before we go, actually, we're not getting involved in this? Yeah, true. I don't know. Because from a human rights perspective, the situation is pretty bad as it is. I know I'm asking unanswerable questions here. No, it's the right question to ask, I think. Because I was about to say it's difficult to extricate yourself. Presumably, there's an amount of money you can sacrifice that...

or even pay potentially that would make that the case. I think where I'm at personally with it, and everyone's mileage on this will kind of vary, is that I think it's one thing to sort of inherit a situation or have a situation foisted upon you. But if the contract runs its course and it comes to an end,

I think I can live with that. But I think the active extension of that contract for me would be very problematic. Yeah, yeah.

I'm not sure I've got a huge amount to add to that, really. I mean, I've got comedic takes on it, you know, which I said... No, I said to my pal yesterday I'd rather have a brutal dictator who's an Arsenal fan than a democratically elected leader who supports Tottenham. But that is obviously a comedic take. Don't visit Tottenham, guys, whatever you do, OK? Don't. It's a very clever campaign, but I'm very worried someone's going to take that advice literally and I wouldn't wish that upon them.

You know, my worst enemy. I'll be honest, I wouldn't want that on the shirt sleeves. Visit Tottenham on the Arsenal. No. There is no amount of money. No, quite, quite. There is no deal. North Korea, we're in. Only if you're celebrating winning a league title there. I think that's the only grounds under which I'd consider it. Quite. I mean, we're going to do a preview on Monday of the PSG game.

we can have a longer chat about it then. I mean, in the end, this is the biggest game the club's had in what? Five? Since the Real Madrid game. Since the Real... Yeah, but this is bigger, isn't it? This is now the semi-final. This is the semi-final. I mean, we're not... We haven't got a game this weekend because this game was moved forward, wasn't it? Because Palace are playing in the cup semi-final. Oh, by the way, on their fans singing second again, I

I was getting progressively more wound up as the game was going on. They're not the only ones who do it. I think Forrest Vance did it. I think almost everyone does it now. Amy, does this piss you off as much as it upsets me? It really does annoy me now, to be honest with you. And I think, second, you dream of second place, wouldn't you? You've won absolutely nothing in your entire history and you're giving us a hard time.

It's just, I think all it is, is if you can take the mic out of someone else so it's not you, isn't it? No? Yeah. It's just a cheap shot. It's an easy one. It doesn't really bother me. At the beginning, when Leicester was singing it, which was the first time I was very aware of it because I was at Leicester and they were literally about a metre away. Yeah.

joyous and i thought uh what i didn't really understand it i was slightly confused but um i can't say i'm getting too too stressed out about it anymore i think it's a bit daft all right well i'll try and take that on board amy okay but i'm glad they had their trip back to you know where there are no tubes and they had to get four buses to get home or something

It really does annoy me. I hope they get battered at the weekend in the Cup semi-final now. I really do. Can we have a song? Is that petty enough, James? I mean, it just upsets me. And I think I must say, if I'm Mikel Arteta, I'm saying to the players, do you want that? Do you want that? Do you want our fans to hear that for the next five years? Go and win a couple of trophies. Yeah, well, that's true. That would certainly call into it. Do I want to get battered? I don't know. They've got Villa, haven't they?

I think I probably would rather Palace, to be honest, in the final. I'm team Palace, I have to say. Really? I think so, yeah. Are you team Villa?

I sort of am, really. I've always had a bit of a soft spot for Villa. I know they're annoying, but I thought Unai, you know, he had a slightly rough deal at the Arsenal. I know it didn't end particularly well in Baku. By the way, it was the other thing I was saying, by the way. Sorry, Omi. I triggered you there, didn't I? I do think, by the way, anyone who went to Baku should get priority tickets for any big games we've got coming up. I genuinely do. They should get free tickets, frankly, if they went to Baku. Yeah.

I do. I think that was a huge sacrifice. To Helen Baku, that was. To Helen Baku, quiet. Anyway, we have a song to finish. James, what have you got? Do you know what? This is kind of... I'm kind of over the Premier League campaign, to be honest with you guys. And I was thinking about songs about...

getting over things, getting over someone. There's a great song I love by Rufus Wainwright called I'm All Right. What a great song. What a song. Yeah, that's kind of how I felt afterwards. You know, it's sort of disappointing, but look, we've got Paris to look forward to. I'm all right. You know, though, James, not that I want to teach my grandmother how to suck eggs, but you know he's not all right.

Well, make of that what you will, listeners. Make of that what you will. Okay, fair enough. Funny though. Really funny song and great. Amy, what you got? Well, also looking ahead rather than backwards and you'll appreciate this. I'm sure the style council with the wonderful Tracy Thorne and the parry match.

Yeah, yeah. I followed Tracy Thorne on social media. She was in some cafe and they started to play Miss You. She said it was a slightly weird but quite sweet moment. That's a little odd. Do you know what? It was a bit cliché, but I genuinely thought after yesterday, I thought I'll just...

And I was generally thinking, don't worry, just be happy because we should be. We've got a great team and we've just got PSG coming up. So I actually listened to Bobby McFerrin last night. Don't worry, be happy. Here's a little song I wrote. You might want to sing it note for note. Don't worry.

I'm not sure it had the desired effect, but I was trying. I was just trying to find a way to let go of what I saw yesterday and look forward to what is going to be momentous. And me and possibly you guys, I'm not sure, we'll get together in the next few days and talk more about the Champions League semi-final coming up. That's it.

for the Mo. Thanks to Amy Lawrence. Thanks to James McNicholas. Thanks to Robbie, our producer. And we'll speak to you about Paris in the next few days. Au revoir.

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