Focus on Newcastle & the battle for second
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Hello, I'm Ian Stone. This is Handbrake Off, the Arsenal podcast brought to you by The Athletic. No midweek match for Arsenal this week. So we're going to look ahead to Newcastle. The wee is Art de Rocher and James McNicholas. Good morning. Good morning. Morning. Morning. Now, I'm assuming we all saw the video of Ethan Waneri and Bukayo Saka basically making this...

Phone call to Per Mertesacker. Have we seen this? Really, it's quite a sweet little thing. This was to support the Premier League's Inside Matters campaign. And the Halen boys chose to check in with their former academy manager. I was slightly surprised that Per Mertesacker, James, didn't have Bukayo Saka's number because he went, who's this? And I thought, don't you know who that is?

It was quite sweet, though, wasn't it? And it's all about mental health and checking in on your pals, right? Yeah, it was lovely, actually. Maybe Bukayo has changed his number recently. Or he's calling from a private number, guys, you know. Or someone else's phone. Yeah.

Any of those things are possible. This is good though, right? Calling people out the blue. I mean, you're a young person, right? I always think of you as a young person. I always will think of you as a young person. Do you make phone calls? Have you ever made a phone call? I mean, I know you guys don't really do that. It's all WhatsApp text messages. No, yeah. So when I make a phone call, it's usually to someone I'm familiar with.

So James actually gets quite a few phone calls from me and Amy as well. But this is not checking in as much as Arsenal related gossip. And other stuff as well. But yeah, if I'm calling a friend, it's mostly like, Oh, do you want to play PlayStation tonight? That's what it is. They'll pick up and they'll be like, what do you want? Knowing exactly what I want. So, so yeah, that,

That's kind of my phone calls, mostly. Just having, do you phone up to check on your pals, particularly your male mates? So we play PlayStation, like, quite a lot of nights during the week. So that's when we'll talk. There's like five of us, maybe four or five of us on the call, and we're just playing games. And chatting away. Yeah, yeah, you just talk. So I think that's quite a common thing for people of a certain generation. Yeah.

Right, yeah, yeah, no, fair enough. James, you call people out of the blue? Do you surprise them? I think as you get older, people don't really want to be called out of the blue, do they, or do they? Yeah, maybe this is me showing my age, but if someone rings me out of the blue, I assume it's a disaster. Do you know what I mean? Something terrible's happened. What's happened? Yeah. Who's died? Who's died, basically? Yeah.

Yeah. So, and I actually am quite bad at sort of, like when my phone rings, sometimes I get, I'll get quite anxious. Like sometimes I get an email from someone at work or in a work situation and I'll just be like, I just won't open that for the time being. Do you know what I mean? Oh my God. The sort of dread of what could be inside. I'll just, I mean, you're speaking to a man who's got currently on his phone, 919 unread text messages and...

177 unread WhatsApps. Some of them might be important, David. They might be, yeah. It turns out everybody's there. I was going to say, somebody might have died. I mean, you just don't know. When did that happen? I guess we'll never know. Seven years ago. I'm sparing my head in the sand, Ian. Right. Right.

Right. I have to say, by the way, I do phone people and I check up on them. I'm quite, you are quite good actually on the phone. Yeah, you do ring people. Yeah, I do ring people and I, but also I'm quite needy as well. So I, as much as I'm checking up on them, I want them to know I'm okay as well. I have to say, but,

But I do call people because I think it's important to maintain those connections is what I think. To talk in all seriousness for one minute. I try and see friends whenever I can. I call people. I don't have as many male mates online.

as I do women friends, but I make sure to phone my male mates and go, are you all right? Is everything all right? Because blokes are notoriously terrible at talking about this stuff. And by the way, there's a phone ringing now downstairs in my house, but I'm going to ignore it. Yeah. It's the landline. Don't answer it. That's my advice. It's the landline. Who's going to phone me on the landline? Let's talk about this open training session Arsenal had on Wednesday. A couple of thousand fans. James, you were there. Yeah.

What's the vibe? I was sitting having a coffee in Muswell Hill on Wednesday morning. Lovely day, right? Lovely day. Was it Wednesday or Tuesday? I can't remember. Anyway, and I was talking to this woman who was about to take her daughter down there. So what did she see and what was it like? Well, it's by neck of the woods, Muswell Hill. I got on the bus there. There's a few Arsenal fans in their kit on the way down. And yeah, a woman said to them on the bus, are you going to a game? Is there a game today? And they're like, no, no, no. Not at 10 a.m., mate. But...

It was all right, actually. So it's an unusual thing for the club to do. They don't do a ton of open training. Art turned me on to...

an interview Granit Xhaka did a couple of years ago where he spoke about that and how he thinks it's a really positive thing potentially for the relationship between fans and the club. That was speaking at a time where things were a bit more strained, a bit more difficult. And he was like, if people came and saw how hard we work, how seriously we approach things, it might do something to build the respect between fans and players. I found it really interesting because as journalists on Champions League match days, we get...

allowed to watch sort of the first 15 minutes of training, which is basically some people doing some jogging and some keepy-uppy. It's PE sessions. It's a PE session. All that is is us going, oh, is Ben White out there? Or has he got a knock? Do you know what I mean? That's all we get. And then we get shepherded away before the real training starts. So it was really interesting to see what they actually do and some of the sort of match style situations that they play.

There was one drill that I was totally fascinated by where they had like two sets of, I think it was 10 outfield players. Mikel Arteta chucks a ball into a zone of the pitch and they all compete for it. They win the kind of transition. And then they just had to kind of play through the opposition. And at that point in time, there were no goals. They just had to create an overload or get a player in behind.

And then they evolved that exercise. They added goals and goalkeepers and they added Kai Havertz. And Kai Havertz was back in training. That was sort of the big news.

But his role was fascinating. He had a different coloured bib on to everyone else. And whichever team was attacking, he would swap to be the centre forward in that team. I don't know if that means we haven't got enough strikers or just shows how much our system and style of play relies on that kind of centre forward. But it was really fascinating to watch. And yeah, a few thousand fans turned up. I think if we had a Champions League final next week, it probably would have been absolutely packed out.

as it was, there were a few thousand down there and

Yeah, it was a good day out. You've been to a few of these, haven't you? I mean, it's what James says, isn't it? I think you're right. You know, you quoted that Granit Xhaka piece. It will add a certain connection between fans and players. Yeah, I was in the room when Granit was talking about that. And the main thing he wanted to get across was that I think he didn't feel like fans could feel how much the players actually cared about what they were doing. So he wanted to kind of build that connection

relationship, which he felt was very naturally done in Europe when he was in Germany because those open training sessions are so

so much more common over there and I think that's what you wanted to bring to Arsenal at the time I think it would have been very difficult to do that especially if you were going to do it at a colony but the Emirates is a great place to kind of try that out and the vibes were good and it kind of yeah spoke to what Granit Xhaka was kind of highlighting a few years back yeah and Kai Havertz present James I mean

It's a bit late, but, you know, we've got two to go. I mean, what's the situation? It was a full training session and he took part, didn't he? Took part in everything, yeah. On both teams. On both teams, yeah. That's how fit he is now. He was more involved than anybody, really. I think it was his first session back because the players were...

You know, giving him a few slaps on the back of the head and stuff as if to say, welcome back to the training field. It was actually good news on the injury front all round. So Jorginho was out there. Declan Rice was out there. Leandro Trossard was out there. The only slight worry was Julian Timber, who was at the ground. This obviously all took place in the Emirates Stadium, but didn't train. So I think he's being assessed ahead of Sunday. But in general, fitness news was positive. And I think for Havertz,

Yeah, OK, maybe it's sort of too little too late in terms of this season. But what's encouraging for me is the idea that he's going to have a fairly normal pre-season now, that he's going to be kind of in parallel with all the other players. He's not playing catch up. And hopefully that means he'll be able to hit the ground running in August when the season starts.

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Oh, James was saying Detling Rice and Leandro Trossard. Have you heard anything? Are they in a reasonably good place to think Detling can start? Because, you know, they were talking about a hamstring injury. Those things don't go away in like three or four days. Yeah, so I think...

It wasn't expected to be serious with Rice, but I'd still maybe play on the cautious side. I know Newcastle's such a massive game. We haven't got a huge amount in midfield, have we? No. Michel Marino's suspended and Jorginho's maybe just coming back. I mean, who's playing there? So...

Thomas Bartey, Martin Oedegaard and one other person. Yeah, hard. Now you think about it, you probably have to start him. But yeah, I think midfield is probably the area where I'd be more cautious than the front line because I guess with Trossard, him training suggests he can start up there. My only worry would be

yeah somebody getting injured in a game that doesn't really matter that much because I remember and this might be I don't know blasphemous to mention on our Arsenal podcast but Chelsea went on a post-season friendly I think to America the year of the Europa League final and Ruben Loftus-Sheik got a really bad injury and that I think basically kind of

halted his growth as a player. So that's always in the back of my mind. I know this one, that won't happen this time around. You've got to, you know what, the players want to play. And although there isn't a huge amount riding on it, there also is as well for a reason that we'll talk about. I mean, Newcastle have beaten us three times already in this season, twice in the Carabao Cup, once in the league.

James, they are a bogey team for us, aren't they? And physically, they're quite an imposing team for us as well. And that's not the case with most teams. No, they are very physical and they're informed as well. I think really in that sort of battle for top five, you'd probably say only City...

They're in better form than them at this point in time. You know, if they beat us at the Emirates Stadium, God forbid, they'll go above us. They'll leapfrog us into second. So it feels like not too long ago, people were looking about this game and thinking,

You know, Newcastle might be in real trouble for their Champions League qualification. You know, a winner gets Alexander Izak was sort of how I was framing the game. But now it feels like they're very much on course for that. And I think it will be tough. I think it will be tough. I think they look very motivated. They look...

fresher maybe than some other teams you know without European football they've had a trophy as well they've had a lift haven't they this whole the whole club feels like a different level now doesn't it it does so I'm expecting a hard game hopefully we get the job done because obviously if we win this one it's pretty much second place guaranteed really unless we let him 15 goals against Southampton essentially and essentially oh what about

What about Eddie Howe then? Because I always feel when I'm watching us against Newcastle that Mikel Arteta has sometimes been...

I don't want to say outcoached, but just a little out of thought, maybe the way that they play or the way that we play seems to really suit them. Yeah, I think they're one, really disciplined and two, really adaptable. So they've got players who can play, I think, in two very different ways. They can be, I guess, very annoying if they want to be. Bruno Guimaraes. Yeah, really aggressive, but then also... Also Bruno Guimaraes. I think...

I think they can be really dynamic in attack as well. And with Arsenal, it seems like they always seem to pick the right way to play. And one thing that stood out to me last season was how they didn't really try and press Arsenal really high. It was more about containing them. And I think they probably set the template for almost like playing a mid-block against Arsenal and doing it well. And then this season, I think...

it was maybe a little, a little bit more awesome, not doing the right things. So like the Carabao cup game at the Emirates, I've just got Alexander Isaac being free the whole game in my head. He was running into spaces, wasn't he? I mean, it was, it was so obvious. Oh yeah, that's what we need. Someone like him. And you know, everyone else is stepping back or forwards and he's stepping back. He suddenly finds himself in 15, 20 yards of space without too much difficulty. Um,

I mean, James, even the game we won at St. James's a few years ago when we won 2-0, we got absolutely battered for 20 minutes, didn't we? And Granit Xhaka made a game-saving challenge when he sprinted the entire length of the field. We do struggle against this lot, don't we? And our home form ain't good. We do struggle against them. There's no getting away from that.

I remember that 2-0 actually. It was a great result. But yeah, I remember that in Shaka intervention. I remember a number of Ramsdale saves. They're always pretty close games. And there aren't many midfields that can live with ours, with the intensity and the physicality. But I think Newcastle is one of the few. I mean, it should be a great game, to be honest. Like, I hope that it is a game and that we know Newcastle can be spoilers. We know they can come and sort of

run down the clock and eat up the time. It feels like they won't do that this time though, doesn't it? No, I don't think they quite need to. Do you know what I mean? I think they look stronger than they have previously and we look a little bit more

They know they can hurt us based on those Carabao games. They've got that threat and the pacing behind. Tough game. So, yeah, I think this is a tough game to call. I feel like this one's maybe a draw, which actually isn't a terrible result for Arsenal in context, given everything else that's going on. No. You know, last home game, you always want to finish with a win. And actually, the last couple of years, even though we've had quite sort of disappointing results,

diminuendos towards the end of the season. We've kind of always rallied for that last home game and it's been quite a fun one and it does matter, I think. It's great to give the fans that send-off and then the players get that send-off as well for the infamous lap of appreciation.

So, yeah, hopefully it strikes the right note this time. Yeah. I mean, our home form isn't worry, isn't it? Two draws, two defeats in our last four home games. I mean, I know James has written about Fortress Emirates and it has felt like that at times. But it's sorry. I was... No, I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think we can put that entirely on me. That wasn't a dig. That really wasn't. OK, but I'm just saying... I have to defend James on that one. It wasn't all him. But...

21 points dropped from winning positions this season. Nine of those points have come since the beginning of April, including in each of the last three home games. Now, there are mitigating circumstances in the sense that we were, you know, trying to focus all our attention on the Champions League. But even still...

And also the set-piece goals as well. We look more vulnerable, it seems to me, right now than we have done for quite a long time. Now, is the set-piece just about Gabriel? Is there a vulnerability through the team? Is there too many injuries? What's going on? Well, I think, so to the first part of that, that's why the second half at Liverpool was so important because I think it was probably very easy or could have been very easy for them to just sleepwalk.

into this game but that hasn't been allowed to happen. Now I think as James said both teams are probably going into this really really wanting a win and I think that should kind of keep Arsenal honest on the weekend. Regarding the set piece goals it's kind of I don't know I haven't looked through all of them back I've tried to kind of erase my memory a little bit from the last few weeks but

I think when it comes down to set pieces and things that can change so quickly, it's probably mostly down to communication. And we know how big a communicator Gabriel is. I think we see that in how Arsenal played in open play as well, when they actually have the ball. I think there's just a little bit less, almost security there. When everyone's moving around like that, I think you probably need your top communicators to be on it. And maybe that's something that Arsenal haven't had in recent weeks.

Yeah, James, it is stark, isn't it? When we think about how many goals we score from set pieces, not so much in the last few months, but in general. And then the fact that we're quite so bad at defending them. I think the stats were down in the bottom three in terms of defending them. But you concur with Art that Gabriel is really so key. I mean, he just wants to win headers, doesn't he? In both boxes. Yeah, I mean, I think...

Without wishing to downplay the role of, you know, the set-piece coach, Jovo, who has been fantastic and, you know, the results do speak for themselves, certainly in the attacking aspect. I think set-pieces are often quite simple, really. It's about good delivery and having someone who really wants to go and win that ball and has the sort of physical and capacity to do it. And Gabriel is absolutely that person in both boxes. So I think his absence is massive in that respect and...

I think, you know, Jakob Kibiel's done well in his absence. I think he's exceeded a lot of people's expectations, including mine. Everyone's. Yeah. Everyone's expectations, I imagine. But I don't think he has quite the same kind of aggression when attacking a ball that Gabriel does. So, yeah, hopefully we'll have that back next season too. Quite. Ian Stone, James McNicholas and Art de Roche here on the Athletics Arsenal podcast handbrake off. Goal!

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But

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They get a hand rig off and you can see that they are more free to play.

I want to ask you about Gabriel Martinelli at Liverpool, James. The way that he was making those out-to-in runs and he was playing more down the centre. I mean, we've talked in the past and we talked on the pod the other day about Martinelli sometimes playing centre-forward. It's almost the first time we've seen it this season. It seemed to really sort of befuddle the Liverpool defence a little bit. Well, it gives him a different problem, doesn't it? And I was happy to see it and...

To be honest, if you told me when Kai Havertz went down injured, you won't see Gabriel Martinelli through the middle until mid-May, I think I would have been really surprised by that. Because who could have foreseen, I suppose, the Marino solution being as dependable as it became? But yeah, this is something that I envisaged Arsenal doing. It's almost a bit like...

Zinchenko in midfield. It's something that Mikel Arteta resisted for quite a long time until injuries and unavailability sort of forced his hand. But I'm glad he tried it and I hope it's something he makes more use of in the future. I'm not saying Martinelli should be

the number nine or exclusively a number nine but I think he's definitely an option there he showed that when he first came to the club and you know he scored a header at Anfield he scored plenty of headers in his time at Arsenal when he first arrived you know there were some really good headed goals from within the width of the post so I'm keen to see more of him and I know Kai Havertz is back in training but I'd be very surprised if he's ready to start

on Sunday or even against Southampton. So I hope we see a little bit more of Martinelli through the middle. And Leandro Trossard, I mean...

potentially injured or we don't know do we did he did he start the training session by the way yeah he trained he took the full part right okay you know that was a great cross he did yeah by the way and he was a handful against Liverpool in the second half as we all as the whole team were to be honest hopefully he'll play some part because again we're short yeah and I think with those two what makes them work well together is that they can interchange Trossard's really comfortable out on the left and

and then it makes I guess those movements from Martinelli a bit more unpredictable when they happen and just on him through the middle I think maybe sometimes maybe his skill sets are actually better suited to be more central so we often see him on the left kind of maybe struggling to get past his man and that I guess wouldn't be as much of an issue if he's just

the guy the guy in the middle he needs to apply the finishing touch but i know there's so much more to being a mckay arteta striker than just scoring goals so that's probably why arteta's been so resistant um yeah we'd have to play a different way wouldn't we almost yeah gabriel martinelli plays down the middle but okay i mean hopefully this won't be so much of an issue uh assuming what uh business we do in the transfer market in the summer um

Apparently, by the way, the deadline for this summer's transfer window has been brought forward to 7pm to sort of make it more reasonable working hours for the staff, which I think is fair enough, really. 11 always seemed a bit ridiculous. And there's also going to be two transfer windows. The first...

specifically for Premier League sides, is an additional 10-day window between June 1st and 10th after FIFA granted permission for an exceptional interim transfer window. This is to do with the Club World Cup, which is why Real Madrid are trying to buy Alexander-Arnold early or get him early so he can sign him up. Anyway, it's some ridiculous, ridiculous tournament which they don't need, which no one needs.

That's something else. And then the rest of the window goes from June the 16th to September the 1st. Martin Zubimendi, James. All but done. I mean, like I say, unless Fabrizio Romano and David Ornstein both tell me it's done, I'm not going to believe it, to be honest with you. But where are we? I think Arsenal are in a really good position on this. You know, they're very confident that

This one will get over the line. And I think there's a chance sort of chronologically that it might be the first signing of the summer because theoretically everything's sort of in place. They just need to move forward with completing the deal. And how do we feel about the fact that our first signing of the summer is a defensive midfield player? Because...

I mean, I've seen people in the press who are not Arsenal connected having a go and saying Arsenal don't need another defensive midfield player. Obviously, it depends on Thomas Partey's contract and what happens there as well. But I feel a bit underwhelmed. Is that fair? Yeah, I understand that. I think...

One of the things that happens in transfer windows is that I think fans place a lot of importance on the order of the transfers. Whereas actually you can only really assess the business at the end of the window, right? It might be that the number nine, you know, happens a few weeks after Arsenal eventually get Zibamendi. And you can't always control the order in which business unfolds.

Don't get me wrong. If Arsenal sign Zubamendi and don't augment their attack in some way, I'll have my pitchfork out. But I think they will. And you mentioned Thomas Partey's contract. Jorginho is another who's on his way. I mean, he's actually someone who might make use of that initial transfer window because he could potentially play in the Club World Cup for... Is it Flamengo? Is that right? Yeah. Yeah, he's on his way to Flamengo. Yeah.

who want him to be eligible for that competition. So yeah, I think Zubamendi is a great signing potentially. You know, he's a guy who Liverpool desperately wanted last summer. Didn't happen in the end. Arsenal have been tracking him for a long time. I think these conversations began, you know, at least a year ago, if not before. And he potentially provides a kind of long-term solution at the base of midfield. So yeah,

I think it'd be a good piece of business. Fingers crossed, everything progresses as expected and it gets done. As for strikers, I mean, the latest one is Victor Joicares, sporting Lisbon. I mean, he looks useful. He's scoring goals for fun in Portugal. I mean, what do we think? I mean, there's a lot of links to him. There's a lot of talk at the moment. What's the general vibe in the Roche Towers? LAUGHTER

Um, the general vibe, uh, surrounding Swedish Victor is like, I'm, I'm obviously not going to like say no to Victor. Would he be third choice? Would he be third choice if, if every striker was available and we're going Isak, Sesko, Gjordje Kares, or are we saying Gjordje Kares has moved up to second?

So I'm kind of still undecided on where he is in that listing. What I would say is the issue I mentioned earlier about those mid blocks that Arsenal face, I think he probably fixes those because he runs in behind. The other thing is, I guess, do we have the players to make the passes to find them? Hopefully, Zubin Mendy could be one. But yeah, I'm still like...

And just being totally honest, I haven't got a real, real opinion on him because I just haven't spent enough time watching him play. I know. And I think that's fair enough. But James, if Art is right,

And Victor Guicarese can get us through those mid-blocks. The mid-blocks are what kills us, aren't they? Let's be fair. The teams that we've talked about, Fulham and Bournemouth, I guess, and one or two others who play that sort of way that seems to confound us. West Ham as well. We lose points to these teams quite regularly. And I think it was all about the mid-block, wasn't it? Yeah, I mean, with the Jockerheads...

The numbers do speak for themselves. That's the thing. Whatever you may think of him or your concerns you may have about the league he's playing in. I was looking it up this morning. I think he's got 52 goals and 13 assists in 50 appearances for sporting this season. There's kind of nobody else out there who can boast that sort of productivity. So if you imagine the conversations that are happening amid the football committee at Arsenal...

You know, Andrea Berta, we know he's a big fan of Jokeres. I mean, I could imagine him pulling up a slide with those numbers on.

And, you know, it's difficult to argue with it. You can't argue with those numbers. You can't. But, you know, it's as Art said, it's about the way we play as well and whether we've got someone in midfield who can provide the sort of passes that he needs. Yeah. And also I think the Isak ship is sort of disappeared over the horizon slightly as I, as I, as I mentioned before, I think Newcastle are going to make champions league. And I just think that makes it close to impossible. Um,

Not on Football Manager. Yeah. Listeners can't see, but Art is shedding a solitary tear right now. But... Yeah. Sesco is, like Zubimendi, a kind of long-term project. Arsenal have tracked him for, I think, at least five years. So it's a lot of work that's gone into that player. And Leipzig have not qualified for the Champions League, have they? Leipzig have not qualified. He's been playing this year in...

Not a great team. You know, they've not had a good season. I know his record is nowhere near that of Jokeres, but he's playing in a tougher league in a worse team. He's much the younger player. And as I say, like he's been, I remember the last summer, you know what, every summer I get asked to write a kind of transfer window preview.

And I remember at the start of last summer, my transfer window preview and the two big names that were picked out in the headline as potential targets were Sesco and Zoumendi. And it's just, it turns out the preview was 12 months early, basically. But, you know, that shows you these guys have been on the radar for a very long time. When Arsenal have that kind of long-term interest, typically they have followed through, you know, they tend to go with the guy they really know and have tracked. So, yeah,

And Jokeres, comparatively, although it sounds absurd given his goal record, would feel like a bit more of a punt because until Andrea Berta got the job at Arsenal a few months ago...

He was not particularly prominent on that list. So it would be wrong to call it a 180, but it would definitely reflect a change in strategy. Maybe a 90. Yeah, maybe a 90 degree turn. Not quite. Not quite. And what about some backup for, well, for Martin Odegaard and for Bukayo Saka as well? I mean, I'd imagine...

anyone, any right-sided attacking player would demure about coming to Arsenal just because they know they're not going to get that many games. But does Bukayo need some help over there? Yes, but can we rely on Ethan Waniere and then maybe Gabriel Martinelli who played over there a couple of times and looked pretty good? Yeah, I think it really depends where Mikel Arteta wants to play Ethan Waniere. So before the Bournemouth game, I wouldn't say it was a dismissive comment, but he said,

Ethan's main position is attacking midfield after everyone probably thinks of him as a right winger now for what he did when Saka was injured. So I'm personally quite interested to see when he gets more minutes in that attacking midfield position. That's his position, isn't it? That is his position, number 10. So yeah, where or how that looks is something that really intrigues me because I think he can probably play

with both Erdogan and Saka. But then I guess because of his age, you might not want to just throw him in there in games that mean so much like they have done in recent weeks. Beyond that, I still think you need someone to offer that support to both Saka and Martinelli, not just one of them. I think someone who can free up both of them at

different points in the season is really important and someone who actually has pace. Rodrigo, you like the look of him? There's been talk about Rodrigo, isn't there, that he's not happy around Madrid? Yeah, I think he'd definitely be a good option to bring in. Raises the floor, raises the quality of what's in the squad. I personally don't know how far along that is. But yeah, someone who actually adds something, adds something different to what Sacro and Martinelli do as well.

You know what? We can have this. We can continue this conversation if you'd like, but I sort of get the feeling that this one's going to run and run. So I'll tell you what, we'll leave it there because a lot of it is speculation anyway. Let's have a song before we go. Art, do you have a song?

I don't listen to this artist, okay? Like, just put it out there. It's okay. We don't mind. I mean, no one's judging you. Who are we talking about? Taylor Swift. Oh my God, what is wrong with you?

I mean, a lot of people are a bit funny about Taylor Swift, and I wouldn't know one of her songs, you know, to save my life. But she's very, very popular, and she seems like a good person as well. Yes. You know, she does. She gives money to food banks and all that sort of stuff. No, no, I'm serious. She seems like a good person. So what have you got, Art?

From this artist you don't listen to. This is for Ethan Warnieri, whose new number is 22. So I'm going for 22 by Taylor Swift. Nice. Nice. Okay, I like that. Yeah, that's right. They swapped numbers, didn't they? Ethan Warnieri's got 22 and David Raya's got the number one. Yes. Right and proper. By the way, James, he's been tremendous, hasn't he, this season? David Raya. Really good. Really good. A worthy...

inheritor of that number one shirt certainly yeah and what song are you on for us well actually speaking of David Ryan the goalkeepers they had some music playing while they were doing their training session yesterday I was watching them do their goalkeeping drills to the sounds of Break My Soul by Beyonce and I've not been able to get it out my head since so I've picked that one

Lovely. I like the idea. Goalkeepers training to break my soul. That's what they want to do to strikers. One-on-ones. I'm having Here Comes the Summer by The Undertone. Here comes the summer.

Oh, you look non-plus. You know who Fergal Shark is, right? He's the guy who moans about our rivers and streams being full of excrement. You know him.

Anyway, he used to be the lead singer of the Undertones back in 1870s, I think it was. Anyway, here comes the summer. That's it for this edition of Handbrake Off. We'll have a chat with you after Newcastle at the weekend. Thank you to James. Thank you to Art.

And thanks to Robbie, our producer. And if there's any Swedish listeners, I'll be in Stockholm for the next two days performing there. I should have had something by the Ting Ting, shouldn't I, really? Anyway, have a good weekend. Ta-ra.

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