How did we get here?
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The Athletic FC Podcast Network. The only way to score is, of course, to play with a hand break off.

Hello, I'm Ian Stone. This is Handbrake Off, the Arsenal podcast brought to you by The Athletic on Saturday. The Arsenal were beaten 1-0 by West Ham, ending a run of 15 games without defeat. I'm joined by Amy Lawrence and Adrian Clarke. Morning. Hey, y'all. Hello. Jay, our producer, did very luckily strike out good in the good morning. By the way, I had two gigs on Saturday night.

Adrian, I gigged in Windsor and Aylesbury. They were all right, you know, but let me tell you, the drive to the gigs after the game was one of the most miserable drives I've ever had. I mean, it's close to Leeds away when I had to drive 200 miles back in a Nissan Micra.

after Nelson Vivas left Jimmy Floyd Hasselbeck at the back post. 200 miles in a Nissan Microdanny M1. But this one on Saturday was pretty close. Ever had any post-game miserable drives, Adrian? You must have done. Hundreds of them. Of course, you live 100 miles away, don't you? No, I didn't mean it like that. When you're a footballer,

and you don't play for a sort of title-challenging team all the time, the reality is that you can have a lot of disappointments and you can have a lot of days where you go somewhere, you get beat, sometimes you get battered, and you've got to spend five hours on a coach. It is one of the aspects of being a footballer that people probably don't care about because they think you earn loads of money, but in the lower leagues you don't. And...

it's yeah it was awful and it's I mean I can't remember specifics of any any particular journey but I did look through some of my games and Carlisle away we got beat 5-0 once when I played for Southend I

I mean, that is a trek, right? But what I also remember on those journeys is obviously how miserable it is, how depressing it is. But also the coach drivers, they get a certain way and then they're like, nah, we've got to stop now. And I've got to have an hour long break. Cause like,

computer says I can't you know I can't keep driving so that used to just wind you up even more so yeah being a footballer you've got to get used to these miserable journeys being a comedian it must be it must be really hard Stoney right you're feeling like rubbish and then you've got to go and be funny I mean that's hard

Well, I take it out on the audience, to be honest with you. But let me tell you, a lonely meal in Heston services is not the way to get over losing to West Ham and your season being effectively over. Amy, any other journeys? You must have had loads as well. We all have, haven't we? Any football fans have? It's part of this rich tapestry we call being a football supporter. It is.

I do have a strong memory of that FA Cup semi-final in 1999 at Villa Park.

I was the designated driver and I think my friend Danny, who lives in America now, might still wake up in the middle of the night occasionally, you know, because I think I drove angry fast on the way home. Back in the day before speed cameras. Yeah, I'm not sure he's ever got over that. But the other one I remember just in terms of a kind of something memorable that happened on a kind of journey after a bad one.

was the 1995 Cup Winners' Cup final. And in those days, I was really new to writing about football then. I was really young and didn't know what I was doing. And they did used to allow journalists to accompany the team on the team plane to European away trips. So because it was a final and it was all kind of like get close to the action, I was on this trip and we were at the airport in Paris.

Anyone who needs to know what happened, just believe me, don't even look it up. If you don't know, but it was bad. And I remember sitting sort of slumped at the airport. And I think we were back in Luton or wherever it was, Stansted somewhere, and waiting for the suitcases to come around the carousel. And I was sat in the seat, obviously looking down.

sad and gloomy and like desperate and Tony Adams walked over and went come on and started to cheer me up said come on what are you doing what are you doing we just lost the cup final tone he said it's the defeats that make you stronger at like 3am at a carousel after we've lost the European final and it stayed with me forever that leadership yeah yeah and you know I think the

I've heard the issue of captaincy mentioned in dispatches recently when Arsenal are looking a little bit rudderless and the captain is having a rough time. And I think that the whole issue of being the captain has changed so much over the years. But back then, everybody wanted a captain like Tony Adams. That was the blueprint. That was what was expected, to sacrifice yourself to put everybody else first and motivate whatever it took.

I mean, honestly, listen, Luton Airport is grim enough in it, really, without having lost a cup final. So, you know, yeah, we all need to be prescribed a bit of Tony Adams this weekend. Our very own James McNicholas said in his post-game report on The Whistle, he did a live report for the Emirates, and he said this team could only outrun their problems for so long. And while we could talk about the game, and we will talk about the game,

Although not that much, I think. I think there's a wider conversation to be had about how, if it wasn't before this weekend, the league season is over as far as the title is concerned. And it is February the 24th. That is not what we signed up for at the start of the season. And now I have to qualify things at this point and say that because this is football...

There is obviously the slim possibility the season ends with Kieran Teaney scoring the winning goal in the Champions League final, having somehow got by Real Madrid and then Liverpool on the way. But let's just assume that doesn't happen. It feels like as good a time as any to ask, how did we get here? Adrian, me and Amy had about a 40-minute chat. Okay. I think I did speak for maybe five or ten minutes of that. I was waiting for that. Yeah.

I didn't know you were such a good listener, Stoney. Well, you know, needs must. But the point is, it did... Adrian, we talked about all the sort of stuff that we're going to talk about now. It showcased that performance, didn't it? It showcased the issues we have all over the pitch, didn't it, really? And the warning signs were there during those 80 minutes at Leicester. Uninspiring, a bit predictable, lacked intensity. It was the same again, wasn't it? And this time we didn't get away with it.

Yeah, yeah. I can't argue with that. We did lack intensity. We didn't have any penetration, did we? It was a lot of passes and not much punch. I don't know. I just think it's hard to be too brutal when you're shorn of so much. Like, it is...

you know, is a big factor. You know, the fact that you've got so few options left that are fitter and available. But yeah, no, I do think we have an issue against certain types of teams where they're a bit physical with us. They're quite defensive. They pack the middle third and we find it hard to sort of break them down. We do seem to

drop points against the same sort of team so that's definitely a factor Newcastle Fulham Villa and West Ham we've played 20 games against them and we've won 4 of them and I'll win 20% yeah ok yeah well that's a bunch of managers that have obviously got our measure

And, yeah, we've got to be better. We've got to learn. We've got to change, haven't we? And maybe that's the issue that's frustrating so many people. If you can park the injuries, then it's like tactically, what can we do that's a little bit different? Can we change things up?

against these teams. And I think that is, if we're going to level any criticism, that's the criticism we probably have to level at the team, at the manager, at the coaches. Are we a bit samey? And probably the answer is no.

is yeah I wanted more chaos on Saturday I wanted some chaos I wanted some chaos I wanted I wanted our forward players to support the striker yeah I wanted the wingers to come in off the sides I wanted Odegaard or Rice to get in beyond and get close and everyone just stuck to their positions and did their bit in their zone and that for me is

is the issue. It's too safe, isn't it? Amy, Mikael was asked after the game whether the poor performance was down to a lack of options in attack. And he said...

No, I refuse that completely. We're talking about the standards of the players and the teams that played today, me included. And that was nowhere near the levels we have to hit to have the opportunity to win the Premier League. We were very consistent, yes, but football is about what you do today and today, nowhere near. I mean, he had to say that, didn't he? What else can he say? But the truth is, if we have a couple of serviceable forwards on the bench...

they're getting on before a couple of left-backs, aren't they? So surely it is down to lack of options. Well, they are. Maybe. When you put it like that. Oh, a service of all forwards, Orzhenchenko in midfield. I mean, I'm not... You might be onto something there, Stoney. I think the thing is, with that question, in truth, both things are true, you know. It is about the forwards and it is about

the levels not being there. Both were very much in evidence. I don't know. I was just thinking about title winning teams of the past and how, you know, I'm still a bit mystified to revisit that old scratch record that Adrian and I bring out every summer about, can we buy a centre forward, please? Or a forward or anything. But, you know, the

It's been noted and it's understandable that, you know, you build first by being resilient, you know, hard to beat and getting your defence and your base right and your midfield working hard and then add the beautiful stuff on top. And Arteta was not incorrect, really, to do that when he first took over at the beginning of the project. But there has been not enough emphasis on that.

the match winners, on the people that can produce something out of nothing, on the guys that have that unpredictability and that zip and that shoot early and that make things happen and have the magic. And you think back to, you know, 89 maybe, which was the first title I saw, was maybe the most similar. But Paul Merson was still a maverick kind of a player in that team. Roe Castle could do amazing things. And then you get to 1991, two years later.

And not only is Kevin Campbell emerged as another attacking threat, but also George Graham goes out and buys Anders Limpaugh. Now, Anders, if you don't remember him, folks, was another maverick. That's why George in the end kind of couldn't handle him because he kind of did his own thing. He was a winger with dynamism and ideas, but he didn't work as hard as maybe George wanted to.

But he was phenomenal in that season and was one of the most important reasons why Arsenal won that title in 91. Then you fast forward to 98 and here comes Nicola Anelka, who was instrumental. A 17-year-old, but a brilliant, brilliant young footballer who scored goals from the get-go and was electric. And you add him to Ian Wright and Dennis Bergkamp and, you know,

It's adding something. I think you have to refresh in that part of the team. By the time it got to 2002, after finishing second three times, by the way, in case we forget that, Arsene goes out and, you know, by then we've got Thierry Henry, who's becoming the player that he is, capable of being. Plus, he's got Wiltord and Kanu and Pires and Bergkamp is already there. And it wasn't just attacking numbers.

But it was people who could do something brilliant. And obviously, it would have been hugely different and amazingly helpful if all of or most of Arsenal's attackers had been fit. But even so, there's a reason that I think everybody craved something else in the summer to bring something more to this team that was nearly there last year.

And to bring something more to the team that has this kind of, this blind spot when it comes to these mid to low blocks, where they get stuck. Where's that person who suddenly dribbles past people in midfield and surges forward and smacks one in? Where's that person

different kind of winger that brings a different kind of chaos to maybe Martinelli or Trossard. Didn't buy him is the point. Didn't buy him, didn't put him in the team. I think we've got to take lessons from this season. That's the most important thing. This is hard. Everyone's got to, you know, hunker down and navel gaze and get over it however you can. But really, take a good hard look.

and see what can Arsenal learn from this. Because those lessons are something, there's a lot of things beyond control that have been a nightmare and that you do your best to mitigate it against a bit better next time. But there's also things that are apart from that that needed and will need to be better. Come see Arsenal! Come see Arsenal! You and your come see!

Um, I think I just won my taxes. Yeah? I just switched to H&R Block in about one minute. All I had to do was drag and drop last year's return into H&R Block and bam, my information is automatically there. So I don't have to go digging around for all my old papers to switch? Nope. Sounds like we just leveled up our tax game. Switching to H&R Block is easy. Just drag and drop your last return. It's better with Block.

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Adrian, when Mikel Arteta said nowhere near the levels that we have to challenge, I mean, questions need to be asked. Surely they've had a week's holiday in the sunshine two weeks ago. I know they've got injuries and all the rest of it, but the intensity, the lack of intensity...

And we can also talk about the crowd at this point as well, because Amy made the point about the sort of grumbly atmosphere there, really right from the start, the lack of connection, the complaining when misplaced passes and what have you. And there was a real change of atmosphere. Maybe the players are feeling that as well. So, I mean, I'm not looking for blame here. I'm just saying if Amy is talking about this being a learning experience,

then we all have to look at ourselves and that includes us as well as fans. Yeah, but you feed off the team. You feed off the team and the team did not give them anything. No, I'm not going to hammer the fans. You do feed off the performances, but the people inside the stadium are also frustrated at the points that Amy made.

you know so like there's a fresh the connection that was built that was so strong the family we're all in this together isn't this great really exciting it's faded because there's now a feeling that we're not all on the same page because we all wanted this and that didn't happen and now what's happening is that feeling of we're not

pulling in the same direction in the way that we were maybe in terms of the fan base and the club and the players. Yeah, but Adrian, Adrian, sorry to jump in there, but all that stuff online, having a go at the captain...

That is not... I mean, obviously, the players aren't playing well. Yeah, but I'm saying that that's the fan base as well, isn't it? Why are they doing... I mean, obviously, there are a load of social media warriors out there. But seriously, come on, mate. I mean, look how good he's been for us. He's had an injury. Maybe he's not back to his best. It's second place-itis, isn't it? It's because we've come so close two times in a row. This is supposed to be our year. And...

I think that there's a feeling... Well, things didn't work out. I know, but I think there's just a little bit of bitterness setting in among certain fans that the club let us down, that certain players are letting us down, and that, you know, the title that we're supposed to win is not happening now, and that some people can't take it. Look, there's certain elements that I just despise. I've always despised. You know, I'll say it. You know, Arsenal fan TV, I hate it. I absolutely hate it. And I've never watched it.

But I've seen the clips. I've seen some of the clips. I just think it's absolute crap. And that element just makes my blood boil. And now they're coming to the fore again and they're getting the clicks and they're getting the publicity and it's fueling others to follow them. And that is what annoys me. Because when we were brilliant for the last two seasons, you didn't hear a peep out of them.

We're all together. And now you've got these videos that are doing the rounds that are just forcing this sort of separation among fans. You know, before we know it, we're fighting each other again. You know, we're better than that. It was also the thing, probably the first thing that changed when Arteta came that was just such a phenomenal relief that the club didn't feel like it was at war with itself. You know, mending some of those fractious moments

kind of breakages that were so hard to live with was such a blessing. It was a big foundation stone to, I think, the improvements that have grown subsequently off the back of that. But I think ask yourself, are you a supporter? It's a simple question. Are you a supporter? Yes or no? If you're a supporter...

Okay, how do we analyse that? Obviously, the meaning of the word is support. You know, that's kind of implied, right? We understand that you don't have to... By being a supporter doesn't mean you agree with everything, doesn't mean that you don't have the right to criticise. Of course you do. But criticise constructively, fairly, calmly. Criticise with love, because you love the club, but not with hate, because what the hell's the point of that? It just feels...

futile and irritating. And I agree with you wholeheartedly, Adrian. We don't want to see that coming back and being dominant. It creates divisions. It's really destructive and unhelpful. And it has been so nice to watch the team in the last few years without that undercurrent. So I think it's a shame, but the modern social media way is that people get this kind of irrational criticism

irate madness that is like flicking a switch, boom, and say or write things that in the cold light of day, you wouldn't really do that. You take a breath and hopefully think a bit differently. I mean, when you're talking about Odegaard, it's a really interesting point because, you know, some of it's become quite vitriolic. We've talked about it not that long ago about Kai Havertz and his family were getting it as well. And, you know...

These are not people who don't care. And these are people who are their own worst critic. And if you think that Martin Odegaard goes home after recent games and says,

feels full of joy and happiness and proud, I'm sure he's eaten himself up that he's not giving what he wants to give and what he has given before. And maybe the person who's most confused about it all is him. We don't know why his performances have dropped so badly. We don't know why his efficiency has...

dissipated. But it's not down to lack of effort, is it? No one tries harder than Erdegaard. No one runs harder. But it's, you know, it's a hard watch and it is at times like that that, you know, it's pretty hard if everybody's just on your case and you're kind of in the

in that spotlight trying to find your way out of a dark hole on top of that i think it has to be part of the conversation i mean you guys have been saying on this podcast for a year and a half we need a striker okay they need some help they need some help and the club did not do it now there may be reasons for that there may be prs reasons there may be you have to we have to sell before we can buy we don't know and they're not going to tell us because partly they're operating in well

they are operating in a competitive environment and that would not help. But maybe the players, Adrian, are feeling it as well. They look up and they see, they don't see, they see Mikel Mourinho up front. No slight on him, but he's not a forward. Where's the backup forward? Where is the help? Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, there'll be frustration among the team.

about that. But you've just got to crack on, haven't you? You've got to make the best of it. Well, I think they did crack on. Whether they made the best of it, I think one can argue because they didn't play well. But they're doing what they can. They couldn't have tried harder. I don't think there's a lack of effort. I know that the intensity... Look, it's easy to say, you know...

We all wanted more aggression. We all wanted more drive, more purpose. It's hard to explain because as a team, you want to do that every game. And for whatever reason, sometimes it just doesn't happen. Yeah, I find it difficult to explain. And Martin Oedegaard can't explain his form. You know, I said it during commentary that, you know, we want...

him to grab the game by the scruff of the neck and take more responsibility. But, you know, because that is a legitimate observation, but it doesn't mean that he's not trying. Of course he is. It's just not happening for him. He's not feeling as confident as he has done in the past.

one thing might just change it. You know, one goal, one moment of brilliance might just click everything back into gear. But I do think that in the short term, we just, we getting it back to football a little bit. We, we have to change maybe the shape of the team.

or the tactics of the team. I think we probably have to play two down the middle, you know, someone with Mourinho. Liverpool didn't play with a striker yesterday. They didn't play with a striker. They played with Sobbeslai and Curtis Jones as twin false nines in a 4-2, 4-0.

And we could do that with Mourinho and someone, you know, but just to get two up there, just to try something different. We have to. We can't play the same way with this personnel, unfortunately, I don't think, and keep winning games. The more I watch this season unfold, the more I think that the Saka injury has been an absolute dagger. And when you look at Liverpool and, you know,

What does it do to all those players around Salah to have him there, to have that guy who's in exquisite killer form? And the closest that Arsenal have to a player like that is Saka. Closest anyone has, really. He's absolutely unbelievable footballer and we lost him and his set pieces as well. Virtually every game since he's not been there. Maybe the Man City game less so because of what happened, but...

There's been a moment where I just looked at it and in my mind's eye, there's this kind of big chasm with a sort of cartoon cloud raining down over it where Sackler should be thinking, you know, where's the magic guy? And I saw, I don't know if it's true, I meant to check, but I didn't have time.

Somebody put on social media, you know, for all of the 26 minutes that Mohamed Salah hasn't played this season, Liverpool were actually held to a draw. It was just kind of comical, but it did just chime in that sense that I think when you have some greatness, an individual that really can change the course of a game on their own has that personality to do it as well as the technical brilliance.

it does lift everyone around you. And I remember even speaking to people in the Invincibles, you know, and they were such a fine team across the board saying, we used to look up and know we had Thierry and Dennis. And if we could just do our bit and give the ball to them.

That level of responsibility and burden that falls on the very best. Salah has grabbed hold of that this season for Liverpool, not just run with it. He's glided and flown and it's extraordinary. But the effect that that has on everyone around them is huge. And at the time of the season when Arsenal needed to grind it out a bit, the middle of the season is always a bit like that really.

That's when the loss of Saka has been so keenly felt. Adrian, you want to say something there? Yeah, I completely agree. And the fact that Salah has played pretty much every minute of the season, does that not also dispel the theory that we ran Saka into the ground?

Well, I mean, to a certain extent, I mean, he did play in every game, didn't he? And he's not the only injury we've got. And I think as Amy's talking about this being a learning experience and say, is our squad too thin? Have we played some players too much? Havertz being one, Saka being another. Look at Salah's career. He never misses games. He plays games.

Game after game after game in all competitions every single season and he's still brilliant. Well, maybe they've got some guy who's just almost freakishly, freakishly good. It's just the way it goes. Yeah, but it's the same with Messi, the same with Ronaldo. There were certain great players and that's what Arteta said years ago when he was asked about Saka when he was young and people said, oh, shouldn't you be protecting him a bit? And he was like, look, for the best, you've got to play at the top level every three days. That's what the best do.

That's what he should aspire to. If you're lucky enough genetically that you can handle it...

You're blessed. I mean, I do think this team is missing Havertz massively as well, by the way. I think Havertz provides a focal point. And again, we certainly played him into the ground as well, playing him against Newcastle, keeping him on for the last 30 minutes when we were 2-0 down already. I'm just putting it out there, Adrian. Yeah, the point on that is that you want an alternative. Which you and Amy were asking for. I do think with strikers, strikers have to make explosive runs.

over and over again in a game it's really knackering playing up front and it's more likely I think to lead to injuries but there you go we haven't got any well the guy that we did have as a backup was

out for the season as well, isn't he? So, yeah, look, we've had so much bad luck, but, you know, could we have done things better? Of course we could. It feels like when you look at this season overall, I'm just mad to be saying this in February, but anyway, that it's like Arsenal opened the door and stepped outside and stepped right into a pile of, you know... It's what you're talking about. Massive pile of... Yeah, that's the one. LAUGHTER

Whereas Liverpool opened their door and skipped over it, didn't even notice it. Wonderful team. I take my hat off to them. I think they've led from the front for most of this season. They seem very unflappable. They're just dealing with everything that comes their way, albeit they haven't had...

so many curses, but they can only deal with what they're dealing with and they've done it in a fashion that we have to respect. But it is sobering to be

sitting here thinking right well that's that then and it is it's much much earlier on in the season than usually when everybody's and even you know this isn't even a man city era we've got a nice run up though to next season where mentally we don't we don't have you know because the last two seasons mentally we've had a crushing blow right at the end of the season that has maybe taken the summer to get over

this time around we've got the players have got a lot of time to get their heads around it haven't they we've had a crushing blow before the clocks go forward yeah exactly so we can just build 90 towards August now in a serene fashion hopefully the kind of the pressure is off isn't it in a way now yeah I do think though there is that kind of success breeding success vibe that you know we've got some significant players with contracts that need renegotiation and

And it's a lot easier to talk to people when everybody's flying because you've won something. It's going to be a lot harder to keep some of the best players believing this is the right place to be and it's going to happen. That is the one thing that is that, you know, there is a potential knock-on effect to this, you know, s*** show of a season. That's why we need to sign some players in the summer. Big players. July the 1st.

Triple unveiling. Yeah, that's the best way to do it. I agree. No, don't wait till August. I agree. Because that way, then their players will look around the dressing room and go, oh, who's this new blonde, enormous striker that's better than Erling Haaland? One other thing we haven't talked about, in discipline, we did get our sixth red card of the season, or fifth,

actually, as it turns out. A few too many, Amy, really. I mean, with Marlon Lewis-Skelly, he's a teenager. He made a mistake. It was a goal-scoring opportunity. And I get it. It's a bit ridiculous, but there you go. We have to work on that. You're talking about learning experiences. That's another one, isn't it, really? Well, I think he was sort of put in a position, maybe, that was a bit avoidable. You know, the whole team was...

was not exactly on it. And therefore, if you're exposed, you might be more inclined to make a rash decision. It was definitely, of all the red cards, the one that felt more like you just shrug your shoulders and say, okay, that's the way it is. It was just a bit of a nightmare that it happened.

when the team was struggling and short of players, you know, and losing. And a hard game coming up. And a hard game coming up, which we will talk about after the break. Ian Stone, Adrian Clarke and Amy Lawrence here on Hand Break Off.

They get a handbrake off and you can see that they are more free to play. Okay, this is the Athletics Arsenal podcast handbrake off.

We haven't talked that much, really, about the West Ham game itself. But you know what? There were a couple of good moments. I think we can basically... A couple of good moments. Ben White, Amy's going, what good moments? I'll tell you what good moments. Ben White returning, right? It's great to see him back on the pitch. It just is. And also, David Ryer...

chasing back, not pulling a hamstring, because I do have a picture in the head of Peter Schmeichel chasing back after some game and pulling a hamstring. 98 after the Overmars goal. Is that what it was? That was it, that was. Yeah. So, and David Ryer didn't do that and made a great tackle. What's a sprinting style he's got? It's a straight sprinting. Who knew? Yes, well, he's a goalkeeper and they, but that was basically it.

that was basically it really so we've got to take that forward we've got to be angry for a day or two and then we've got Nottingham Forest away on Wednesday Forest they've fallen off a little bit Adrian but

Even against Newcastle, I mean, Newcastle battered them, but they went 1-0 up. They had chances and they got back to 4-3. This is a dangerous team. And that front four, Ilanga, Hudson-Odoi, Gibbs-White and Chris Wood, they're a danger to any team. Yeah, look, you say they've fallen off a cliff, but in their last home game, they won 7-0.

Aside from that game. It's a very, very small cliff. As they were falling, they did do okay on the way down. I will say that. Look, it's not been a happy hunting ground for us. Really. Nuno is a tough manager.

for us as well. I think you could almost add him to the list. I know that we swatted them aside at Emirates. That was a pretty good performance, but he is the kind of manager that will set up in that way that we talked about where they'll be quite aggressive, they'll be very defensive and they'll be well organised. So, yeah, it's going to be a really hard game, a really hard game because their strengths are

a little bit like West Ham at the weekend, you know, where they got the quickies up front that could offer that threat on the counter-attack. So we've got to be much better at dealing with that. I mean, Calafuri, obviously we haven't talked about specifics, but he had a long time to get tight, to try and stop that cross, and that wasn't the best from him. And he's up against a player that's one of the quickest in the league, in Alanga. Watching Alanga yesterday, really,

running past Lewis Hall at some pace and I did fear for our boys on Wednesday with watching that. Yeah, but Lewis Hall took him the other way, didn't he? I think Lewis Hall won that battle but yeah, Langer's quick and he's a danger man. Morgan Gibbs-White is a really good player. Chris Wood is having a phenomenal season. Chris Wood has the best conversion rate

of any striker that scored at least three and there's a lot of people that have scored three goals in the Premier League but a better conversion rate than Isak a better conversion rate than Haaland I mean they get less he's getting less chances and he's scoring more goals he's a menace it's a dangerous team you know they do know how to defend even though they're still letting four in quick succession the other day but they you know they are capable so I think this is a I think it's a really hard game really hard game for us but

we've got to pick ourselves up. We've got to, we've got to scrap it out. And my hope is that we just try something different, that we, we give it, get a bit more support around Mikel Moreno and, and, and yeah, just show, show some real fight in the game because that,

was the disappointment, wasn't it, the other day? It felt like we sort of conceded defeat a little bit there. We didn't work the goalie anywhere near enough, did we, against West Ham. So, yeah, let's just go for it here. Amy, the fight that Adrian is talking about, is it just really should come from the anger of what they did at the weekend and go, no, no, we're not having that. I mean, we talk about the fucking standards and all the rest of it. Well, come on, show them. Hopefully.

Yeah, hopefully. But they've got to back each other. So they've got to back themselves and they've got to back each other up. And I think when things are tough, that's when it becomes sometimes a little bit more difficult to back each other up. And against West Ham, it looked a little bit like people were sort of having to try and do things on their own. There wasn't that kind of connectivity between the team of everybody being...

you know, like a unified force attacking together, defending together. It's just, it's just all a bit off kilter, you know, and, and somehow they have to find that connectivity. I'll tell you who could, who should be angry and fired up is Declan Rice. Yes. I was just thinking that as well. I was just thinking the same thing. Cause like, I did think it was, he wasn't having his best game. He was part culpable for the goal. Um,

As was Califuri, as was Partey maybe inside the box. You know, he sort of stepped up weirdly at the last bit, but it was a substitution that completely caught me off guard. And look, he's just got to use that as fuel. I don't mind it in a way because Arteta is sort of saying no one's too good to come off. You know, I'll hook you if I don't think you're doing it. That's quite clear.

positive in a way but what you want to see is that real positive response from Declan and hopefully we'll get that and it'll steam into Forrest and own the match and if he does let's be honest he's the

And Urdegaard is our captain. He's been a brilliant captain. And, you know, I love him. I absolutely love everything about Urdegaard. He's just going for a tough patch. But Rice is the tone setter, really, in terms of playing. And, yeah, I just think we need a big game from him. And, Amy, one more thing before we finish. I mean, right now, we're in a decent position for top four, right? We're away in second, but...

you know, these things can slip very, very quickly. So these guys have to have a day of moping about and then they have to go, right, we are Arsenal and we are a good team and we should go to Forest with a reasonable expectation of getting a result. They have to get their head straight now because this could get very serious very quickly. Yeah, I think there's professional pride that all of these players have that will kick in pretty quickly. I'd be astonished if they sort of threw the rest of the season away

I also think that, you know, there's a lot of licking of wounds going on, justifiably so. But first of all, this season isn't over. I mean, you know, yes, we know it would take one of the oddest miracles of all time, but they do happen occasionally. They do, which is why I said it at the start. And let's not forget that, you know, there's still a Champions League to attack.

It's daunting and difficult, but if Arsenal... You can't switch it on and off.

if they're not doing the right things against Forest? Why are they going to be doing the right things against PSV a few days later? Which is not a gimme, is it? Let's be fair. I mean, I'm talking to people about, oh, going to Madrid. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Well, you said it yourself. Earlier on this pod, you said, guaranteed the other way to winning the Champions League after getting past Real Madrid and Liverpool. You didn't even mention PSV.

I didn't mention BSV. You're right. I'm doing it myself. I didn't. You're absolutely right. Sorry to bring you up on that. Fair enough, Amy. You're absolutely right. I was just talking about something unattainable, but you're right. Yeah. Look, we all know it's silly long shot stuff. But look, 2006, Arsenal got to the final. We all remember that back line. I mean, it's risible. Flamini was left

Flamini was left back. Flamini was left back and Eberway was right back. Kolo Toure and Philippe Senderos, was it? Senderos and, yeah, I mean, you know, it was remarkable. They went nine games in the Champions League without conceding a goal. What on earth? I don't think any of us imagine that something similar is going to happen now. You never know.

There is no way in modern football that you can afford to, you know, to just throw toys at the pram and feel sorry for yourself. And the best dressing rooms, Amy...

they do come together in adversity. They do, they do find something and we've got a great dressing room. We love this team. We absolutely love this team. So, you know, I'm not changing my mind on that. This team will come again. I've got no doubt about it. But this team needs some more help and that's the learning that we have to do. Exactly. Exactly. So they just got to grit their teeth, bite down on that gum shield, get through the next few games, be better. And then,

Saka will be back and Martinelli will be back and then we can attack this Champions League hopefully and

And, you know, maybe put a bit of pressure on Liverpool just in case they have a crumble. But yeah, it's really about the Champions League and securing top four, isn't it now? And the sooner we secure that top four spot, the better. You know, we probably need to get, what do we need? 75 points, something like that. Winning on Wednesday will go a long way to making us reasonably... There's a lot of points to be won, but winning on Wednesday makes a nice gap between us and fifth.

or possibly even six this year. Anyway, we obviously could do this for another hour and a half, but we'll do more of it on Thursday or next Monday or, you know, as things go on. Let's have a song to finish. Adrian, you're usually quite upbeat with your songs, but I'm figuring not today. No chance. No? I'm just going to go with, you know, I think it pretty speaks for all of us, but...

But because the manager said it, then, you know, we're allowed to say it really, aren't we? So I'm going to go with Shania Twain. That didn't impress me much. No. No, fair enough. I can't argue with that. That don't impress me.

Amy, what about you? Well, I think that after the way this weekend went, when Liverpool won so easily, I felt like we could be at peace a little bit the rest of the season. When I phoned you and I said, how are you, Amy? She said, Amy said, I'm trying to be at peace. And I went, how's that going? And you sort of unconvincingly said, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's coming along. Well, I just, you know, you know how it is when it's all, when every...

sort of millisecond of every game and every point feels so important. It's sort of stressful and exhausting. It takes you to the edge of reason. And, you know, if that ain't happening, then you may as well just try and chill out a bit. So, yeah, I think being at peace with this season, it's been...

Real slog with so much hardship and heartache that, you know, things that have been difficult to deal with. So just make the best of whatever is in front and learn. So I'm going for Peace of Mind by Lauryn Hill. There's a fantastic live version of that that's like nine minutes long. Check it out. You are my peace of mind That old me is left behind

I got a message from Victor Dupuy. I'm sorry if I got the pronunciation wrong. I think I almost certainly did. On Blue Sky for a song suggested The End by The Doors, which is a bit bleak, but I get the point. But Rip Buckler, the jam's drummer, died last week and it was very sad for all fans of the band. And one of the songs they had was called Standards. And I think it's pretty sad.

after what we saw at the weekend. Amy, you got a message on social media as well, did you not? Yeah, this was an email into the handbrake email address from Noah, who says, I know we're all disappointed with the result this weekend. I thought I'd check in to uplift a bit so Stoney doesn't have to tell a joke. Oh!

Oh, hang on a minute. Go on. My wife and I were delighted to welcome our first child, a son, Hugh, last month. He was born in Philadelphia just hours after the Arsenal completed their Champions League victory over Zagreb.

um makes some lovely points and then finishes off by saying Hugh has already heard a few minutes of the pod on his way back from a pediatrician visit all good normal checkup a new Guna is emerging so cheers Noah for a bit of sweetness to end this pod and uh hopefully one day young Hugh makes his way to the Emirates and uh and

And we get to see him and he gets to see us. And Hugh, Hugh, you're invited to a gig. Your dad can stay away. Just before we go, I think we ought to mention Jack Pitbrook's article, if you didn't see it on The Athletic, about Tottenham asking not to be called Tottenham anymore. Yeah. That was just priceless. They sent out an official missive. Yeah, they did. To...

broadcasters and various people like that formally requesting that nobody calls them Tottenham which of course opens the door for all sorts of other names should you feel so inclined but I'm happy to call them Tottenham and hey if you want some peace just think for a minute about what it would be like to be them and

and then come back to the fact that we're us. That should make you feel a bit more peaceful. That's it. Thanks to Adrian, thanks to Amy, and thanks to Jay, our producer, and we'll speak to you after Forest on Wednesday. See you. See you.