Looking ahead to Southampton and a busy summer
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The only way to score is, of course, to play with a handbrake off.

I'm joined by Art de Rocher and Adrian Clarke. Morning. Hello. Good afternoon. Good afternoon. Good afternoon. You're absolutely right. We're recording this just past midday. See, Robbie, right, our producer, is opener. We're going to talk about, did anyone, any of you watch the Europa League final last night?

I don't care. I don't care. We know them lot won, but I don't care. And I'm also, by the way, reveling in the fact that May and I had finished 16th or possibly 14th, but it doesn't really matter. And they haven't got European football next season. And they've still got Harry Maguire. And they've still got Christian Eriksen on the bench. And so there's a lot to be happy about.

But apparently it was a terrible game, right? Adrian, a terrible game? Oh, it was awful. Yeah, it was a sort of a fitting final between two really bang average teams and...

The scruffiest cult you'll ever see in your life. I won't ever see it. I won't ever see it. No, you won't ever see it. Unless it's sort of playing somewhere where I happen to walk in and see it. And I go, oh, right. That's what happened. Yeah, it happened. Like, yeah, it's annoying because obviously Spurs fans are gloating and whatnot. And I'm sure they were singing, are you watching Arsenal, et cetera. Were they? Well, I wasn't. I wouldn't know because I switched off full time and watched a much higher level game actually.

the National League playoff semi-final between Forest Green and Southend, which went to penalties. And my also beloved Southend won on pens. They're going to Wembley.

for the right to get back in the EFL. So that, for me, made it a good night. What happened in Bilbao was pretty irrelevant. It's a very second-tier competition, isn't it, these days? Art, did you watch it? No, I was on the London-Liverpool Street Express train back from Stansford Airport. That's right. You've been to Albania, haven't you?

And we'll talk about that. And shout out to any Albanian listeners because I had a few iffy moments, but the locals were very helpful. So yeah, if any Albanian Arsenal fans are listening, shout out to you guys. Shout out to the Albanian Arsenal fans. Absolutely right. I didn't watch it. I was out for dinner with a mate.

And just didn't even think about it. I mean, I saw, obviously, I looked at my phone at the end and went, oh, right, okay. That was my sum total of my involvement in that. So let's move on. Let's talk about Max Downman then. I mean, the reason you're in Albania are...

I mean, you went to watch the England under-17s and Max Damwon was playing for the England under-17s, even though he's still 15 at the moment. He's up a couple of levels. Looks like he got on pretty well, right? He was up against another kid whose name you'll tell me in a second. And the two of them had a bit of a battle. Yeah, so the kid you're talking about is called Nathan Decat. Yeah.

It's quite a nice name. A cool name, I think. It's a cartoon name, isn't it, Nathan the Cat? You know, I can see it now, right? Yeah, so they were playing Belgium under-17s. He wasn't purring, was he? Oh!

Thank you, Adrian. Thank you, Adrian. I mean, normally I bring the comedy, but it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Adrian's more than capable. Not on that occasion, though, obviously. No, no, that wasn't comedy. Anyway, um,

if you want comedy come and see me on tour tickets are available i'd launch yesterday but that's neither here nor there anyway art nathan decaf he's played uh for andalex first team a few times already and he's 16 and i think he was by far belgium's best player playing a hold of midfield so naturally him and max came into i guess contact quite often throughout the game and i think people who are watching on the bbc stream saw that max had a few nice moments carrying the ball forward um

Few nice shots as well one was blocked on the line in the first couple of minutes But it was really interesting game because there are moments where the cat had the upper hand. I think he was Yeah, sorry my bad

See, Adrian, you started this now, right? You have no idea what you've unleashed here. And by the way, if you're going to listen through the summer, and we do hope you will, there's going to be a lot more of this because there's less football to talk about. But anyway, De Katt had the upper hand.

At times. And yeah, it was just really interesting to watch. I think that under-17s Euros is probably one of the first real big steps in terms of international football. I know, obviously, these guys have been playing together for years now. And that was one of the things you talked about in your piece as well, how there's quite a lot of them, the coaching staff, they've worked with these kids for quite a few years. Yeah, so Neil Ryan's the head coach and this is his second year with this age group. So they

tend to go with each other it was the same with Ethan Wanyeri who had Greg Lincoln as his under 16s and then under 17s head coach and Kevin Betsy another former Arsenal youth coach he was believer was Jude Bellingham's

and Charlie Patino's coach when they were 15, 16, 17s and 18s. So it's something that FA have done over the last few years. And I think it's just about having that continuity throughout the age groups for those players. Yeah. And in terms of England, I know, you know, with Gareth Southgate, he'd coached the youth and then he came into the, it became England manager of the first team. And suddenly there's all these players that he knew from when they were kids.

Adrian, are we investing too much hope in Max Downman? I mean, the kid is 15, right? I mean, I see clips and we all see clips and we go, well, he looks like a real talent. And we do hope that he develops in the way that he becomes a first-teamer as soon as possible. And we absolutely know from Ethan Waneri and from Miles Lewis-Skelly how that can happen. And Bukayo Saka before that and the Milsmith throw. And hopefully he's got the right people around him and his parents and friends

and what have you. But are we getting ahead of ourselves a little bit? I mean, a kid is 15 years old and there's so much growing that can happen in those three or four years. You never know. No, well, he's already very big, isn't he? You know, he's already a tall lad, doesn't look like an under 15. So that's what he is. He's not even taking his exams. Like that is this time next year, where he's basically a year 10, which is fine, really.

That he's at the level that he is. Because, you know, I look back and I was a strong player in my own age group, played for England schoolboys at this very same age. But, you know, I wouldn't have been, you know, training with the first team or ready to do anything like that. But he is, you know, he's on a different level to pretty much...

Any of these kids that have come through, really. I think we're okay to get excited. I really do. Based on what I've seen, he looks a beautiful player to watch. Lovely ball carrier. Strong. Awareness. Awareness as well. Very good awareness. Good finisher. He knows where he is on the pitch, doesn't he? Yeah. I mean, all I'll say is look at Laminia Mao.

what is he, 17? He's 17. He played in the Euros at 16. If you are good enough. Won the Euros. Yeah, if you are good enough, you'll get game time. So, from what I've seen, he looks like he definitely has potential to be good enough. And I suspect, yeah,

within a year maybe a year and a bit it elicited something in the first team and maybe Adrian is there a thing about the fact that let's say when you started out there was much more likelihood of you getting absolutely clattered by some 26 year old 27 year old father of two who needs a win bonus you know I remember those days yeah whereas now that sort of stuff doesn't happen quite as much

Yeah, older listeners. But yeah, Pat Vanden Howe. I remember playing against him against Tottenham Reserves. Absolutely nasty player. You know, real cruncher of a player. And I'd have been 17, 18. Clattering into me. Doesn't really happen anymore. But look, it's a different game. It's a much more technical game. It's less of a physical game. He looks a very good athlete. Technically,

He looks every bit as good as a first team player. So, yeah, I don't think there's any point trying to play it down. He looks an incredible talent. And I'm excited to see him burst onto the big stage like those other guys. And another left footer. I mean, we haven't really got enough in our squad, have we, of left footed players? I mean, the fact that Uri and Timber talked about the fact that David Rea is the best right footed passer of the ball. And you go, yeah, OK, fine.

But he's a goalkeeper. Yeah, one, he's a goalkeeper. Two, there's not a lot of choice outside of that. Three, also, he messed up a couple on Sunday against Newcastle. But another left-footed player and can play in that, you know, number 10 position. Um,

I mean, is that the competition for Martin Odegaard? Not yet, Sean. Not yet, not yet. I think what's really important to mention is he's really good off both feet. So when you look at how he's played throughout the season, there are times where you can't really tell what is the stronger one. So I think that's something, obviously, yeah, promising that also Mikel Arteta, who obviously spent a lot more time with him than we have, would take...

take advantage of and I also just think that when you're looking at the way he plays he's a bit different to the guys that are in those sort of positions which would help as well I think he's someone that carries the ball a bit more than say an Erdegaard for instance and just yeah having those different options whenever the time is I know Mikel Arteta said in his press conference that in the near future whenever that is I think it'll just be to his benefit.

Yeah, he carries the ball so quickly, doesn't he? It's very, very quick when he's dribbling with the ball.

The key for me, really, in terms of his first team involvement in the future is how good he is without the ball. I've seen a lot of highlights of him, but I haven't seen the full 90 minutes very often. Can you tell us about what he's like out of possession? Because I think that if he's not great out of possession, that's something he would have to improve on a lot to get game time. Yeah, yeah. So just from watching...

the game, and actually there was a game earlier in the season, I think it was due for a youth league game against PSG. So I was there and one of the coaches from the stands was kind of guiding him on where to stand when, say, the ball's on the other side of the pitch, but you are playing as a right winger and you still need to apply pressure in a certain area. So he's getting that guidance from the touchline constantly. It was the same in the game the other day where at set pieces, he was kind of being told where

to stand, how to position his body and stuff like that. But then also there are moments within the game where he chooses the right moment to maybe pop around the side of the midfielder who has the ball and just nick it from them. And then England are kind of away on a break. But then there are moments where he gets the timing just wrong. So I think those are all things where, as you're saying, this is a kid that we're talking about. He's going to get better at it, but you can already see that it's kind of

already part of his game, which is good to see. I want to talk about moments of brilliance from players this season. You know, Detlam Rice's winning goal against Newcastle. Beautiful strike from outside the box. It's nice to see players having a few more shots. There's no doubt about it. But I remember talking to Amy about this before the PSG semi-final. She was a bit worried because they have more game changers in their team.

than we do at present. And it's also about players being allowed to try these things. I mean, Adrian, what do you think about this? Is that one of the things, aside from a new striker and Zubin Mendy probably and the new signings, which we'll obviously talk about through the summer, but is that one of those things that will elevate us to another level, those moments of individual brilliance and players who are a little bit more

basically the handbrake is taken off. Yeah. No, if there is a criticism of Mikel Arteta and the team, it maybe is that he's so intense. So everything's so detailed that maybe we've lost a little bit of the off the cuff chaos that maybe we've had at other times. Yeah.

So I think that's a legitimate point to raise. And also you look at individuals. Obviously, Rice with his free kicks against Real Madrid. Moments of absolute brilliance. He's got it. Saka has got it. Remember the goal against Forest early this season. Just ridiculous. Running across the face of goal. It smashes it in the top corner. Anyone else? On occasion, Martinelli's done it, hasn't he? You know, with some brilliant solo goals. Not enough. No, not enough. Erdogan...

has brilliance in a more creative capacity, doesn't really score those long ranges, does he, out of nothing. I'm not just talking about goals though, Adrian. I'm talking about moments that just suddenly the person who's doing them just seems to be playing a slightly different game to everyone else. Yeah, and I think we are sure. Salah pulls it out the bag for Liverpool when they're in a terrible game, doesn't he, over and over again.

So, no, I think the more match winners you have, the more talented players you have, the better. I think we need more, 100%. We need one probably off the left and maybe up top as well. So, yeah, they do matter. They do matter. The issue is this season, we haven't dominated teams as much.

I think in the last two seasons, we have looked unbelievable. We have played quick, fast, pass and move football and basically torn opponents apart almost from beginning to end. When you're playing that way, there's a bit more license to have a bit of fun with it and try stuff. And I think this year, because we haven't been as tight at the back at times, you know, we've let in silly goals because we've been chasing form.

you end up concentrating on the basics and maybe not

expressing yourself as fluidly as you can. And I think that's been the story of our season. I was watching the Palace game the other day, the league game at home to Wolves. And by the end, they were just having fun. I mean, you could see Eze and Teta and the rest of them just having a right laugh. And nice to see Eddie scoring a couple of goals. And I was having a chat with a mate of mine. I was watching this game with a mate and we were talking about, I said to him, would you buy Mbappe? No, we were just discussing, right? And these sort of maverick players,

who don't really play in a team system in the same way. And he said to me, he would buy Mbappe. He said, but if you have to buy Mbappe, you have to build the team around him and you have to basically say, listen, you do your thing. Don't worry about tracking back. A little bit like Liverpool do with Mo Salah. I just want you up in the final third, doing your magic. We'll get the ball to you as often as we can. And the 10 who are not Mbappe have to work a bit harder.

in order to cover for that. Mikel seems very team-oriented, and I have no problem with that, but just, is there room for a maverick in this current arse-literation? Well, for me, I think there always is. There was a point in the season where I was having, I think,

I called it like an identity crisis. Yeah, in terms of Arsenal and the football Arsenal play because there were just points where it felt really stagnant and boring. And of course, part of that was the injuries, but I think another part of it was missing players that had that kind of

off the cuff, I guess, nature. So when you look at how Arsenal used to play and the midfield that they used to have, it was all about one touch passing,

kind of not thinking about what you were doing. Roziski, Fabregas, Hleb, those guys. And it just, obviously, the midfield's makeup is totally different now. So that's where that identity crisis kind of came from. And I think when you look at teams that make you just have fun watching football players, the players that come to mind this season are Eze that you mentioned, Morgan Rodgers at Aston Villa, Ray and Shirky at Lyon, players who just express themselves. And Gibbs White,

Gibbs White too and these types of players I think

There should always be room for them, but I get it's a different game now. No, they should, and there is room for them. I'd love Eze, for example, to play for us, but it doesn't have to be at the expense of hard work. I don't think in the modern game you can carry too many players that just never track back. I don't think that works. I'm not talking about too many. I mean, I'm talking about one, and at Liverpool it did work, didn't it? Yeah, but even that, I wouldn't describe Salah as work shy. Maybe because he's getting a bit older, he saves his legs.

and others cover him a bit more. But I think it's more a case of, you know, everyone's got to work when they don't have the ball. And I don't think any player should have an issue with that. But what my issue is, and where I think Arteta can improve, is to give his players more freedom and license in the final third. Because it is sometimes a little bit predictable what...

you know, pass to A, to B, to C and back. You know, it looks good, but there's not enough invention. You don't want to overcoach your attackers, in my opinion. I think overcoaching creative forwards is a bad thing. I'm not saying that's what Mikel is doing, but I think,

that a little bit more freedom would actually take us to the next level. So you need to do everything for the team up until that final third. But when you're there around the box, go crazy. That is kind of where I think we can go to a high level. Yeah. It's what I feel made Smith Rose such an important player when he came in because he was just freestyling basically. And he was so good at doing that. I think,

Having a space for a player like that is so important because A, it just makes you a lot more unpredictable, but two, it makes the football so much better to watch as well. Come see us go! Come see us go! Come see us go!

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While we're on the subject of attacking players, there's a chart going around on socials talking about the most money spent on attacking signings since 2020. So strikers and wingers. We are placed 60th.

In Europe, 59 clubs have spent more than us on attackers. I should say, by the way, that if you put Kai Havertz in there, the whatever it was, 60 million down the drain that we spent on Kai, we move up to 29th, I believe, or something like that. But we really...

Well, it wasn't totally clear. He is an attacker though, isn't he? He is, but we bought him as a midfielder, didn't we? Or at least those were the utterances coming out of the club. Chelsea have spent 803 million euros on attackers and they had no one on the pitch the other day. I mean, it's absolutely unbelievable. PSG 476. I mean, it's just...

You know, we have spent 80 million quid. If you don't count Kai Havertz. Adrian, we need a striker, don't we? Don't we? Yeah, we do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know no one's been saying this, but we're saying this now. This is the moment when you hear it first.

We need some striking talent. Yeah, we're going to spend some money, aren't we? And everyone knows it. We really have to. Look, the structure's great. The structure of the team is really strong. Could it have been better at times this season? Definitely. But, you know, the basis of our defence, you know, David Rye is in the frame again to win the Golden Glove, the most clean sheets. We're pretty good at that aspect of the game. Yeah. But I think every team is as good as their goal power.

Simple as that and as good as their forwards. And we don't have the best strike force in the division. We don't have anywhere near the best strike force in Europe. And if we want to win the Champions League, we've got to change that. And we have to invest in

in not just one striker, in my opinion, but at least two forwards. At least two. I think three, personally. Just look at the bench, you know. And I don't mean this disrespectfully to Nathan Butler or Adeji, but, you know, it's a guy who's 22. He's never really been close to the first team yet. He's on the bench every week. Others as well. You know, Raheem Sterling's been so out of form, crazily out of form. And, you know, yet we're having to use him. You know...

We're so short in that department. So I think three attackers this summer is really what we need to be going for. One of the sort of world-class variety at least. But yeah, I mean, you're going to chuck some names out there in a minute, I'm sure. And I'm probably going to say yeah to most of them.

Yeah, I am going to chuck some names out. I mean, Guy Carrez, Sesco or Rodrigo. Oh, actually, well, I'll tell you what's an interesting one. Brian Mbwemo. Oh, I really like Mbwemo. I mean, he's had an amazing season. He's got, what, 19 goals, 8 assists. He's 25 years old. He's the right profile. Lovely footballer. And the pace that he's got, I would happily buy him as one of those three attackers. Yeah.

Yeah, he's been top for not just this season. I'd say since Brentford came up, really. He's always caused Arsenal problems. And I think the word you use there, pace, is something that's really important when you're looking in these areas. Because even though Martinelli has that pace, I don't know if he uses it like...

that often, if that makes sense. It doesn't feel like he's ever really bursting past someone. Do you know where he uses it? He uses it to drive past the right back out wide and to get to the byline. He's been really good at that lately, hasn't he? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But not enough driving down the middle. No. When he does, he looks dynamite, doesn't he? But yeah, I think someone who can carry Arsenal up the pitch...

and really kind of impose themselves as needed. And I think Mbwemo, another left footer, but I think his ability in and around the box is something that Arsenal could really use. And it's someone that would also...

I guess give Saka a bit of a rest when needed as well. And Premier League ready as well. Knows what it's like to score in the Premier League. Rodrigo Adrian, I mean, I've seen him be brilliant for Real Madrid, but he seems surplus to requirements. They're talking about going in for Nico Williams, who I personally would like as well. Also less sided. 13 goals and 10 assists in 50 appearances this season, which is better than most of ours. Most of our players, to be perfectly honest.

big goals for Real Madrid in the Champions League. I don't know. What do you think? Yeah, I like him. Yeah, I think he was very quiet actually against us. He didn't have his best game against us. Well, we played really well. Both those games. We played fantastically. Yeah, we did. And no one had their best games against us that night because we were better. You talk about players with X-Factor, he's definitely got it. He's definitely got that ability to produce a mesmeric dribble and just whip one in the top

corner. A world where Rodrigo's on the left and Saka's on the right, either side of a new centre forward, it just fills me with great excitement because I think it would help Saka because I think that teams know that we're going to slant our attacks towards him. But if we had someone of equal talent on the other side, it just spreads it out, doesn't it, naturally? So Rodrigo would absolutely be

at the top of my wish list for sure. He'd be ahead of Nico Williams, even though I really like Nico Williams. Right. I'd happily take him. I'd go Rodrigo first, a clutch player, big game player. He can make things happen out of nothing and he's quick.

So, yeah, I love that. I was on another podcast this week with Ted Knutson. I don't know if you guys have heard of him. The guy who was in charge of Statsbomb. He's a sort of data analyst expert and recruitment expert. And I talked about the strikers with him. I'll name check it. Fitz Des World of Sport. I host that one. So I'm going to chuck that one out there. It was a really good one-off special. I said Isak v. Xokarez v. Sesko. And he said neither. Yeah.

which I found quite remarkable. He said, if you can't get ESAC, don't get the other two. He says, you're not getting ESAC. And then on Jacare, as he said, the price is way, way too much. There's too much risk. And Sesko, he said, the price would have to be in the 30 million bracket to represent value. Otherwise, if you're paying over, then you are risking losing a lot of money in wages and on the fee. So I just found that he looks at it at a different angle, of course.

he was more talking about value people like a like a Delap and stuff like that which I see as a third striker but not not as your number one I'm really like Liam Delap right

that, right? I really like, I like his energy. I like how he sort of shoves people about, but not at the level that we're looking at. I mean, I think risk at this point is something that we have to take. We have to take. I agree with that. Sorry, Ted. No, exactly. No, but look, he's looking at it from a maths point of view, you know, and probabilities and stuff like that. Johan Wisser was another player that came up.

older but would be a cheaper option than Mboma. 19 goals from open play. I know. One thing you've got to say about Mboma is a lot of the goals are pens. Even though he's fantastic. Whistler has scored a lot of goals. Yeah, Whistler could be a very good value option. But he wouldn't satisfy the fans, would he? Let's be fair. No, it has to be Jacarez, Rodrigo and Whistler. There you go. That's your three. Sorted. Right.

Okay. I mean, all right. Meanwhile, we will lose a few players. Jorginho, there were reports saying he's about to sign for Flamenco. He's going to play in the Club World Cup. And by the way, I mean, I'm so glad we're not involved in that as well. Just let him have a holiday. I mean, I had Phil Foden. I read a piece Phil Foden moaning about he was in a tough season and he's had a few problems. And now he's got to go. They've got to go and play in the Club World Cup.

Cup and there could be up to seven games. Just another ridiculous FIFA idea, right? But let's talk about Jorginho. Oh, sad to see him go. He's

good energy he seems to be liked about the place he's been good for us as well and he's maybe got that future coach manager vibes he could possibly come back to the club at a later date yeah a lot better than expected when he first joined I think there's always I guess a suspicion whenever when someone joins Arsenal from Chelsea but I think straight away he fit in really well of course it helps when he scores that goal against Aston Villa I know it's down as a known goal but it's

Doesn't matter. We know what happened. And I think, yeah, to be fair to him, I think in that early kind of period, he probably could have been used a lot more. It was Arsenal's first title race and there was that spell in April where Partey was just having terrible game after terrible game, kept starting and yeah.

before you know it, Arsenal are out of the title race. But I think Jorginho's time will be remembered very fondly, especially for the people, I think it's the West End at the Emirates who always see him coaching on the side of the pitch. So yeah, as you say, I think he's doing his badges. So I don't know how that will continue over in Brazil, but may see him in a dugout sometime soon. Good luck to him. Adrian, Leandro Trossard,

There is speculation he could be on the way out. I would like to keep him personally, but we understand about how squad building goes. But what's your feelings about him? I'd like to keep him, definitely. I think he's a great finisher. He's had some really good moments this season. He's versatile as well. Someone that can play on the left, off the right, down the middle. Can even play as one of those box-to-box midfielders.

So I think he's got great value to Mikel Arteta, if I'm honest. But I just talked about signing three players and none of them were very cheap. So money, it's not a case of money's no object. If we have to sacrifice someone, I suppose losing Trossard is...

He's palatable, but... At his age as well. Yeah, only because of his age, really. But then, because has he peaked? Probably. His best years are probably behind him. But I don't think we'd get a lot of money for him necessarily. But it'd be wages off the wage bill. But yeah, it'd be reluctant to say goodbye to him because I think he's still got a lot to offer. But this is how it goes. And, oh, Kieran Tierney going back to Celtic.

Yeah, I just feel sad about Kieran, really. I've got so much time for him. He seems like a good guy. And I even like the way that he had his little bit parts this year when he would come on and do a job. And he also, by the way, crosses the ball in a different way to everyone else, into a different area to everyone else. And now, finally, Martin Erdogan has decided to shoot. It seems a shame in a way because you know that Kieran Tierney would put one on a plate for him on the edge of the area. And if he connected right, he'd score. So...

It's a shame, but he's had fitness issues and we wish him all the best, right? Yeah, I just wish that Mikel Arteta would have maybe realised trying to make him invert wasn't the move earlier. Yes. Because it just feels like he would have given Arsenal so much

As an alternative. Exactly. Going up the outside, on the outside of the wide man. I think he could have turned a lot of draws into wins and possibly losses into draws. But hey, I think 100% of Arsenal fans still really love him. I've got a Chiarantini shirt, so I'll don that maybe on the day that he leaves. But yeah,

Yeah, I think everyone's got a soft spot for him. He was someone who could have been captain. He wore the armband a few times himself. So yeah, he'll be very, very, very missed. Just thinking about those players that I was mentioning there,

I'm actually going to go back on that and say, we definitely need that left winger. We definitely need the frontline striker, but rather than maybe having that third striker, because Havertz is still a brilliant option. I actually think it's that box to box attacking midfield position that we need to beef up. Yes. I think that's the, that's a big priority this summer because, you know, Martin Odegaard needs a bit of pressure on him. Rice,

He's been brilliant, but sometimes we might need him elsewhere. And you talked about magic earlier on or that invention, players that can make things happen. It's those attacking midfielders that really drive the team. And I think that we are a bit short there because look at the options. I mean, it's Rice and Erdegaard and Mourinho, isn't it really? That's it. One area can do it.

but hasn't been given a run there. I think we're also forgetting if Martin Zubimendi comes in and I have been watching clips and he's some player and if Martin Zubimendi comes in and sits back, Detlef Rice will drive forward quite a bit. Oh yeah. Kai Havertz can play in that position as well. I don't think Martin Erdogan's place in the team is entirely safe if he keeps playing like he did. Yeah.

So, yeah, an attacking box-to-box player with a bit of flair. And it is. I know they're qualified for the Europa League now, so it'll be tougher to get him. But I do think Eta in our team would be frighteningly good. I can't see it. No, I can't see it. But we are big enough to put pressure on Crystal Palace for that signature if we pursue it. Well, I have personally, I know his cousin and I've asked him to ask him.

Okay, yeah, yeah. So I've asked him to ask him. And I can't really do any more than that, to be honest with you. But it's a personal thing. Are you on a commission? On a commission? What, if he comes? No, my commission is watching us tear teams apart. That's my commission. I'm absolutely fine with that. You know, I mean, if somebody, anyway, no, I'm not on a commission. No, I just, but I've done what, I'm saying I've done my bit. All right.

My brother actually used to play five-a-side of his brother because he's quite local. Get on the phone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Get on the phone. Let's work it from all angles, all right? Ian Stone, Art de Rocher and Adrian Clarke here on the Athletics Arsenal podcast. Handbrake off. We're the Vikings champions!

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They get a humbric off and you can see that they are more free to play.

Adrian Clarknot de Rocher here with me on Handbrake Off. Injury news, there's always injury news. I mean, it doesn't end, does it? Jurien Timber is undergoing, or maybe has already undergone, a minor procedure on his ankle. Amazing what he did off the back of the ACL to come in and just play essentially the whole season without any cover for a lot of it because Ben White was injured earlier.

And he's such a leader. He's a warrior. I mean, I absolutely love him. And he's so calm. And the mentality he's got.

Hopefully he recovers quick. Yeah, I think you just used the word. The mentality is really strong, isn't it? He's a winner. There's no doubt about that. He's such a determined so-and-so. And I do like that about him. And yeah, he'll be back. And it'll be quite nice in a way, you know, as this sorted. There's a nice bit of time off. And then he can come back, hopefully, you know, to hit pre-season.

you know, flying again. So yeah, no, very, very successful campaign for, for during timber. Yeah, it was great. And, uh, uh, William Saliba picked up a hamstring injury. Can you believe it? I mean, another one, uh, it doesn't look like he needed surgery.

It's just a minor three or four weeks out. Have a rest, skip the internationals, go on Aldi, go to some beautiful island for six weeks or whatever it is, and then come back in July ready to go. Yeah, exactly. I think for him and also Gabriel, hopefully they'll be able to have a pre-season together again. But then on the right back, so I'm actually...

hoping touch wood that Mikel Arteta has a season where he can actually interchange Ben White and Jaron Timber for once I think

That's what I'm looking forward to for next season or one of the things I'm looking forward to, seeing how they can affect games differently. Yeah, because it almost feels like if you bring Ben White on for Uri and Timber 60 minutes in, that's almost an attacking substitution at that point, isn't it? Because you know that Ben White is going to get forward on the outside and it changes the angles of everything. So yeah, I'm hopeful as well. Southampton away, last game of the season, Sunday at 4pm.

At St Mary's, I hope the Arsenal fans give Aaron Ramstad a good send-off as well. I feel for Rambo a little bit, relegated again. But he's been pretty special. But I don't think he's getting a Premier League club, is he, after this? I mean, I was thinking about it, Adrian, and thinking how football's brutal, right? You know this. It's so brutal. He's Arsenal's first-team goalkeeper. And then suddenly, out of nowhere, Mikel Arteta buys David Rea. As it turns out, he knew more than we did.

about goalkeeping and that's absolutely fair enough. And David Rea is just, he's obviously Arsenal's number one. It's possible he's going to win the Golden Glove again. Aaron Ramsdale, not a huge amount. He goes to Southampton and they get absolutely battered most weeks and it would have been more battered. But for him, I don't know. He'll be alright.

Yeah, he will land on his feet. He will be alright. I mean, you are talking to someone who tumbled down the leagues very, very quickly, Stoney. You know, I was playing for the Arsenal. And you are alright. It's true. But do you know what I mean? And then before you know it, you're in the third tier playing for Southend. You know, this happens in football. But I think with Aaron Ramsdale, he could get a Premier League club. I mean, Leeds are definitely looking for a new goalkeeper, aren't they? If James Trapper gets sold by...

by Burnley for a big fee Burnley will be looking for a goalkeeper I know but if he goes to a promoted club and they get another relegation and they get another relegation well yeah here's what it is he's you know I'm sure he's still enjoying himself to a degree but he looks like he is he'll wish he was still at Arsenal let's not you know of course he wishes he's still there he got dealt a bit of a rough hand there

But that's the nature of football. It is ruthless, as you rightly say. Yeah, he'll be all right. It'll be good to see him at the weekend and hopefully he doesn't have too good a game. And some goodbyes as well to players. And we've mentioned Jorginho and Trossard and Kieran Tierney. Alexander Sinchenko, maybe his last game really changed a lot. I mean, if, and I firmly hope this is the case, that we go on to win big things. Alexander Sinchenko will have had a lot to do with it. The speeches he made, the...

how he inspired the team. Well, we'll see what happens. We don't know if he's leaving, but Art, what do you think with Zinni? He's been good for us, hasn't he? Yeah, I think it's really unfortunate the way things have panned out for both him and Gabriel Jesus because the summer they came in, they completely transformed everything. They did. And I think when you're talking about X Factor, they both had it in different ways. Obviously, Zinchenko,

playing as a central midfielder basically from left back. But then I think Gabry J. Zeus is so frustrating because...

the words we were talking about earlier in terms of flair oh yeah the Mavericks thing he could do that he has it but his knees just won't allow him to kind of do it on a regular basis and I think if he didn't have so many injuries it would be really interesting to see where this Arsenal side could have ended up but yeah on on

on zinchenko i think hopefully he's won um because he's been given more minutes in this close of the season maybe you can actually um kind of command a decent fee when comparing to maybe other departures i think actually if he was 32 or something be more likely to stay because i think he's still still have something to offer in that midfield position i was talking about where we're like because i

If I'm honest, I wouldn't really consider him as a left-back now. I think he should be a midfielder. Doesn't have the physicality, does he, really? No, unfortunately not. But he's only 28, you know, so we can't write him off. He could go somewhere else and be brilliant. So I suspect he'll go because he's too good a player, really, to be on the fringes. And he's very much on the fringes. Quite. Talking about on the fringes. Yeah.

Neto and Raheem Sterling. I mean, well, thanks Neto for the one game. Was it one game? Yeah, yeah. Was it when he almost handled outside the box? Yeah. I mean, it was mad. But thanks for that. We won the game, didn't we? So that was all right. And Raheem Sterling, I mean, mate.

It's not happened, is it? What was that? I mean, really, what was that? And listen, great that he provided some sort of mentoring for Ethan Waneri and Myles Lewis-Skelly in terms of what he liked as a player coming through and a person of colour as well and the sort of stick you might get in the newspapers. And I guess he can tell him good stories, but I'm not sure that's worth 150 grand a week or whatever we paid him. I mean, he...

I don't understand with Raheem. I really don't understand. I really was quite excited. I thought if he's come along and he wants to maybe re-establish himself as an England player, he'd very quickly understand that he hasn't got the pace. But then what you do is you play those little one-twos and you dart about and you're a nuisance. And all he did was he received the ball, turned around, the fullback comes to the walls and he plays it back.

What was the point? No, it was really annoying because it felt like the story of his first, I guess, first half of the season was he'd have a bright 5-10 minutes and then he'd kind of disappear. And it was almost like you could still see something there. The Girona game was actually one of those games I felt. And then he ended that with a missed penalty. The Girona game, he was good in that game. He had a really good start to the game and then...

I don't know whether he just doesn't have the legs anymore. He can't kind of keep that standard of play up for, I'm not even going to say 90 minutes because it was about 45 minutes. And then the Leicester game was the final nail on the coffin, I think. It was a real struggle, didn't it? That's right. There were times where I think, so Leicester's right back, James Justin, got subbed off and his replacement was actually making his debut

So first game for Leicester against Arsenal and you're up against Raheem Sterling. And you know when a winger has the ball and you're kind of thinking, OK, maybe they'll do a little faint here to buy an extra yard and they'll dart the other way. There was none of that. No double movements or anything. It was just really lacklustre. And I think, yeah, unfortunately, that's probably going to be how his time at Arsenal is going to be remembered. Yeah.

Yeah, the bottom line is they're both loanees and I just don't think Arsenal need to be going in for loanees. Look, if you get your recruitment done properly and well organised in good time, you shouldn't need a lone player. Well, we know Sterling came in on the last day, didn't he? Yeah, exactly. So I just think lone players are very risky because it's...

They're available for loan for a reader as well. You know, things aren't working out where they are because that's why they're allowed to leave on loan. And you're not married to the club in the same way, are you? You don't, it's human nature that you're not deep down going to,

as much as the players. Now, I'm sure he does care every time he goes on the pitch. But he never got on the pitch, did he? But it's not the same when you're on loan because you can just walk away at the end of it. So I'm hoping that Arsenal's recruitment is so strong this summer that we don't even have to consider going into the loan market. These two haven't been good loan signings, have they? No. It's just, sorry, Robbie has just written, do you have a preference for who you want to finish in the Champions League places? I mean, do we particularly...

I do. I do. I think I might. I think I might. Well, go on then. Who are your preferences then? Well, I'm desperate for Forrest. I'm desperate for Forrest to beat Chelsea. I mean, because if they do, they finish above them. Still might not be enough though.

No, but Villa could beat Man Utd, which is very likely, I would suggest. Yeah. But Forrest beating Chelsea would put Chelsea in seventh and qualify them for the Conference League, which is obviously hilarious. Then you're hoping that Real Betis beat them in the final.

And therefore, they have to stay in the Conference League for a second season. So that is the dream scenario. Anthony will do the business for Real Betis in the final, I guess. Doesn't he play for Real Betis now? He does. Yeah, okay. So you're saying you'd like Forrest to get in and, well... Chelsea to drop out, for sure. Chelsea to drop out and Forrest, and then we'll see with Villa, won't we? And like you say... Oh, have you got preferences as well? Yeah, I haven't done all the maths that Adrian's done. LAUGHTER

He's not a stats man, he knows better stuff. That was pretty basic maths art, come on. Just add three, if a team wins, just add three to what they've got. It's not difficult. Mine's more based off, I don't want Aston Villa to get in because then, again, this may not be realistic, but if you can unsettle Morgan Rogers in any way,

I'd try that. And then again, if Newcastle don't get Champions League and that makes things more interesting regarding who they need to keep. There's no way that Isak is leaving Newcastle. There is no way, no matter what happens. And it would, of course, be funny if Newcastle blew it against Everton. And that will not be an easy game. David Moyes will set them up, make it difficult. But if Newcastle blow it and...

you know, Forest and Villa, say, jump in. We all think City are going to do it. Although, I mean, they're playing Fulham. You never know. That would be a disaster for them, wouldn't it? But obviously very funny for the rest of us. I think it's going to be quite exciting. Yeah. I mean, there's potential for one of these big ones to blow up, which is quite fun. It's the only excitement, though, isn't it?

But yes, there is potential. Well, hopefully. Let's have a song before we go. Art? I didn't ask anyone in particular. Art, what have you got? My head hasn't been... Has it not? No, sorry. Oh, all right. That's all right. It's not like compulsory. The Albanian national anthem. The Albanian national anthem. That's...

To be fair, I got treated some Albanian hip hop in the taxi. How was that? There you go. It was interesting. It was good. It was good. You know what? I've got some Slovenian techno on an old laptop that I'm trying to sort out because I really liked it. Yeah, okay. Well, keep an eye out for some Albanian hip hop tune. Yeah.

Adrian, have you got something? I mean, I imagine you've got Albanian hip hop as well. Yeah, of course. The music sort of guy that you are. Dancing around to it. Yeah, big summer, isn't it? Big summer. And I hope we get to meet a lot of new players this summer. So, yeah, I'm going to Calvin Harris. It's a bit of a banger, isn't it? When I met you in the summer. When I met you in the summer. To my heartbeat sound.

It's a bit of a tune. Fell in love by the time the leaves turned brown. That's what I want to feel about all our signings this summer. I want to fall in love before that, mate. I don't want to be waiting. I don't want to be waiting until October. I mean, I get it. I get it. I have gone in tribute to last night's Europa League final. Iggy Azalea, not important.

Wow. Not important. No, I saw Iggy Azalea. Oh, that was so patronising. That, wow. That was outrageous. Wow. Do you even heard of her? I've seen her. I walked an hour across Glastonbury one year to go and see Iggy Azalea. I don't believe you. Do you know what? I didn't even know it was a girl. Oh, no. I mean, wow. Well, anyway, cheers. And she did a song called Not Important.

And that's exactly how I felt about last night. It could earn Spurs in the Champions League as much as they would get if they finished in seventh place in the extra money you get from the Premier League. So, yeah, they could have just tried a bit harder, I guess. Anyway.

Not important. That is the point. Not important. Certainly not important to us. So let's leave that alone. That's it for this actually rather long edition of Hand Break Off. We had a little bit to talk about, I guess. Thanks to Adrian. Thanks to Art. Thanks to Robbie, our producer. Enjoy the final day of the season and we're going to do a couple of season reviews next Monday and Tuesday. Thanks for listening. Ta-ra. ...

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