More Old Trafford misery & Keown drops in
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The only way to score is, of course, to play with a handbrake off. Hello, I'm Ian Stone. This is Handbrake Off, the Arsenal podcast brought to you by The Athletic. Yesterday, the Arsenal drew 1-1 with Manchester United at Old Trafford to reflect on the game. I'm joined by Amy Lawrence and Adrian Clarke. Good morning. Hello. Hiya.

Good. Before we start talking about the game, and obviously we could spend, you know, 45 minutes on that first half, to be honest with you. If anyone fancies a big night of Champions League football at the Emirates on Wednesday night, there are one or two tickets available. And when I say one or two, I mean about 15,000.

All keenly priced at around £70 or more. One gets the sense that a lot of people don't quite fancy it. So, what I've done is I've got a small selection of TV shows to watch instead of Arsenal PSV. And I thought I'd ask the panel if there's anything they particularly like the look of. I did put it in the document, Amy. We do have a shared document, but Amy just didn't look. LAUGHTER

Adrian, did you look, by the way? Yeah, I got it in front of me here. All right, fair enough. I was waiting for the element of surprise, Ian. I was waiting for you to throw me a selection of televisual feasts. I will. That would be more entertaining and cheaper, in fact, than Arsenal VPSV on Wednesday.

All right, well, Adrian, well, I'll tell you what, Amy, then. I'll give you four, all right? I'll give you four, and you can tell me if there's any you fancy. On Factual, I didn't even know there was a channel called Factual, but there is. It's Nazis. It's always Nazis on Factual. There's Anne Frank, the Nazi capture, and then Nazi megastructures. One's at eight and one's at nine. Don't give me your answer yet.

There's a nature, there's Sky Nature, there's Super Shark Highway at night. I don't know what that is. Anyway, Super Shark Highway. There's an episode of Top Gear on BBC Three. There's always one of them. Or there's Live at the House of Lords on BBC Parliament when they'll be debating something. Anything you fancy from that? Arsenal PSV. LAUGHTER

Come on, you can't, Arsenal PSV. I think by process of incredibly challenging elimination, it sounds like it has to be Shark Highway. Shark Highway. Okay, fair enough. Shark Highway at nine on Sky Nature. I'm going to record it now.

I'll be in the game, obviously. But not all of us are putting our tickets on the exchange. No, fair enough. I also didn't give you the choice of Griff's Great Australian Rail Trip, where a middle-class TV presenter gets paid a lot of money to go on a rail trip. Or Landscape Artist of the Year from Portsmouth Dockyard. But anyway, forget them. Adrian, what about you? Anything particularly fancy? The one that you haven't read out that's on the list is Grand Designs. Oh, do you like Grand Designs?

I'm quite partial to a grand designs. I can happily sit there and watch them, even if they're old. It doesn't matter. It's easy viewing, isn't it? I do quite like those programs, even the ones that was at the spaces as well, where they do up a space in an unusual way. I'm into all that nonsense. So I could see myself watching that. But you left off.

Yeah. Atletico versus Real Madrid. Isn't that on Tuesday? Isn't that on Tuesday? It's on the same time. No, it's on the same time. Oh, they were on the same time. Oh, well, you could watch Atletico. I'll do a bit of scouting and watch that instead. So, I mean, I think it might be a more interesting game than the one that we'll be at, but it is what it is. Yeah, but can it be at Grand Designs where they fail miserably and they end up getting divorced? One of them.

There's a couple of them. There are a couple of them out there where the house is unfinished and it's over a hilltop. It looks like, oh my God, but it didn't quite work out. It's kind of more enjoyable when that's the outcome, isn't it? Sometimes. I also, by the way, I left out on National Geographic Wild, the world's deadliest whale. What?

which I'm tempted to have a look at. I might see what that is. I mean, Kit is a name not in the clue. No, well, it doesn't say killer whale. One would assume that it's a killer whale, you know. But anyway, the world's deadliest whale on National Geographic Wild. Jesus, we really want to talk about Man United Arsenal, don't we? Or Arsenal PSV. Let's just talk telly for 45 minutes. Well, I'm happy to do that. I'm happy, although I can... So am I.

We've got Martin Keown coming on in a bit. We're going to have a chat with him about that. Let's have a chat about the game yesterday. Manchester United won, Arsenal won.

Here we are again, Adrian. We ain't got no striker, bruv. As I said last week, as my mate said to me, and as I'm saying again, and lack of firepower up front. I mean, we dominated that first half so much in terms of, you know, just keeping the ball and they're terrible, obviously. And they're playing like the lowest block it's possible to play. Might as well just lined up on the goal line for the first half. And obviously they went in 1-0 up and we'll get to that. But,

you know, all the football except in the final third, there's not much happening. No, and Mikel called it right, didn't he, afterwards? You know, he said, we have to be better in and around the box. We have to be. And that was the story of it. I mean, it wasn't just one level between the two sides. You know, it was a gulf between the two sides in that first half. We looked so much superior overall.

Ameryn doesn't want to play that way, but he knows his team are so much worse than us that he felt that was the only way that they could be competitive. And it worked. So kudos to him for doing it. But yeah, it made for a tough watch, didn't it? It was really frustrating. We didn't see that carnage, the movement, the mayhem that we enjoyed so much against PSV. It's obviously harder to play that way against such a defensive team, but you still can.

And yeah, it was just a half of nearly moments, wasn't it? We got in and around, little scoopy passes into the box. You know, Trossard can't quite get any contact on the volley from Erdegaard's scoop. There were little moments like that that just drove us all nuts, I guess. It was a really, really frustrating game to work on, to commentate on because...

Yeah, we were clearly miles better than them, but we were also off it in terms of our final third play. There's no denying that. Amy, you got anything to add about the first half? In a funny way, I would argue that I found the second half more infuriating than the first half because I kept sitting there in the second half and thinking,

How are Arsenal allowing Man United to actually look a bit dangerous and put us under pressure? Because the first half had been kind of risible in terms of how, even without being ruthless, Arsenal, a million light years away from Man United's levels...

Until that one moment, it was just so silly. But yeah, I was disappointed in the second half because it's like, okay, you've got a stupid outcome from that first half, Arsenal, so sort things out. And yet, Man Utd had a lot more of the more dangerous chances and Arsenal have to thank some remarkable saves from David Raya for it not being a defeat, which would have been unfathomable.

I'll try that one again. Unfathomable. Hard word to say that, isn't it? It was a bit, actually. Yeah, I've never quite noticed it until now. It would have been very difficult to fathom. I think it's easier to say. Isn't it, really? I could not have fathomed it. Obviously, Maynard had went in 1-0 up, um,

with the free kick and also obviously the wall was 11.2 yards away as opposed to 10 it's another one of those only us in it moments I mean I know people say Arsenal fans get a bit paranoid but if anyone's going to get sent off when there's a tackle on the halfway line it's us it's any of those if anyone's going to get a penalty given against them for an accidental clash of heads it's us

And if anyone's going to have the wall 11.2 yards away, it's us. That being said, Adrian, Shea Given, ex-Newcastle goalkeeper, was defending David Ryer on Match of the Day last night, but...

He was quite a long way over. I mean, he's trying to do a bit of kidology, isn't he? But it wasn't even in the corner of the goal. I mean, if he stays in the centre, he saves that, doesn't he? Yeah, he wouldn't stay in the centre because the wall's there to protect one side of the goal. So, you do stand on the other side, but did he stand too far on the other side? I think he did. I think he did. When the ball doesn't go in the corner and it beats you, I think you have to question your own positioning. And I'm sure he will be.

doing that I'm loathe to be too critical because he had a magnificent season and had a great game aside from that I thought his positioning was just a yard or two too much to the right hand side I'd rather give credit to Bruno Fernandes for the quality of the dipped free kick it was a brilliant goal yeah but they were half a mile away though the

wall yeah i mean if it had been 10 yards the wall would block it i think that much is is absolutely clear but do we really want to live in a world where we're gonna get the tape measure out and yes you know make it no we don't come on yes we do but some refs have big strides some refs have little little legs well i have to compensate then don't i if it's a little if it's a short stubby ref he takes 11 did you see the free kick that erdogan had so the erdogan had a free kick

which he didn't take with as much, which I think absolutely Declan Rice should be on free kicks from now on. There's not a better ball striker at the club than Declan Rice. I stand there by every home game. I go and do a bit to camera.

down by the pitch and I milk it. I just stay down there and I watch the warm-ups because it makes me feel close to being a player again. I just want to see it. And every time I'm down there, I'm transfixed by Rice and the way that he hits the ball. He hits it so clean and I don't think anyone else should be on free kicks.

apart from Declan moving forward. So why isn't he? Is that because it's a sort of captain's prerogative to choose? Is that because the manager says, go on, Martin, have another of the umpteen goals that you haven't scored since Burnley 17 years ago or whatever it was? It was a while ago, wasn't it? It's...

I was watching the game at home with my sons and a bunch of their mates. And honestly, that free kick, you know, everyone was like, oh, it's a waste of time. You haven't scored a bloody direct free kick for a thousand years. I mean, it doesn't feel... It was 18th of September 2021 is when it was. I mean, it was three and a half years ago. Does there not become a point?

absolutely backing you up, Adrian, where somebody makes a decision and says, we're going to try something else now. Well, we have a set piece, coach, who's much more... So why do you think that that's something that has got stuck? I don't know. Maybe they don't want to take it off of the captain. I don't know. I just think there comes a point where it's like,

Look, you've had enough guys, Martin. And look, we're going to try something else. And I think Martin would accept it and take it on the chin. He wouldn't like it. I wouldn't like it. But at the same time, you know, the stats speak for themselves. I think we have to try something new. I kind of think the same about corners. I don't know.

I did expect us to come back from Dubai and come up with a few new routines, but that hasn't transpired. I think maybe it's time to try some new corners and it's time to try a new free kick taker. And again, I'm really loathe to criticise the set-piece coach because he's been unbelievable. But yeah, I think these are little tweaks that we could make or at least try between now and the end of the season. Ethan Nwanehri is also someone who has gone through the youth...

being fine on dead balls. So, you know, there are options and I think at times you've got to explore everything, especially for a team that needs all the help they can get to score goals. Jürgen Timber said that David Rye's got the best right foot of the club. Let him have a go, right? Anyway, listen, by the way, David Rye, we touched on him, but that was a tremendous second half performance. Really good save from Xerxe, probably in the right place at the right time. An outstanding save

from Maserati it was a really nice move from Man Utd they opened us up and it was a great ball across and as soon as it's floating across you're thinking that is 2-0 that is 2-0 and that is probably game over and that was a that was a fabulous save and then the two at the end when he saves the ball from Bruno Fernandes and it's spinning in and then he jumps back up and he and he claws it away I mean we've seen him do it already twice this season now I genuinely feel that

You can't have a go at him for the free kick after what he did the rest of the game. But that's a goalkeeper's lot, isn't it, Adrian? They're going to get any mistakes they make. It obviously results in goals. But he got us a point yesterday and that point could qualify us for the Champions League. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, they were big saves. Yeah, really. You know, the one from Masraoui was brilliant. The way he sort of spread his legs. That was awesome. And the one where he scoops it out is his kind of trademark now, isn't it? You know, so quick across the ground. Yeah.

No, he's had a great season. I'm a big, big fan of David Rye's work. The concern is allowing this Man United team, which is rubbish...

to have this many clear-cut chances. They did slice through us too easily and that is something we won't get away with in the Champions League. You know, against Real Madrid or Atletico, that's three goals that they've probably scored against us in that game, in the second half alone probably. Yeah, Vinicius Junior is a better finisher than Masraoui. I think he might be. But I do think a little bit we struggled down in the sort of full-back positions. Gunn actually had a good game. He sort of

He definitely got the better of Califuri and Lewis Skelly. They also play well against top teams, by the way. They've got results against Liverpool this year. Adrian, I know you are... Listen, they're not a great team. I'm not saying they are, but they do get better results against top teams than they do against pretty much anyone else. So...

It's not completely just us not playing particularly well. And like I say, if we start making chances and work their goalkeeper and maybe get a couple in the first half, the game is completely different anyway. More shots. I mean, I just want more shots. Like, if you pin a team in like we pinned them in,

I just think it was just too many passes. And it got to such a stage that there was just no room to find that little... We resorted to doing these scoopy passes over the top. There was just no room for it. So I think when that's the case, I'd just like to see more shots. Because as we've all seen, you've seen that over the weekend. Deflections happen and they get your goal. So I think that's a lesson for us against lower blocks.

more shots from the edge of the box and better shots as well. Look, we saw Declan's goal. Beautiful hit. He can ping it. I want Declan in matches like that to be having seven shots. Try your luck. Amy, Declan Rice, there was also a bit of analysis on Matchday today, last night, about Declan Rice and about his position and how he's making more forward runs and he's trying to get forward. Obviously, these chats have gone on.

maybe in Dubai or at the training ground or whatever. But, you know, aside from his goal, he was really trying to get forward and trying to get on the end of stuff. And it didn't quite come off. He got one in the area that hit his chest and just bounced away. We want to see Detling get further forward. He's like action man, isn't he? He can sort of do everything. You know, you see the way he timed that brilliant tackle at the end against Hoyland and the way he saw it, which was just a thing of beauty. You know, those two sort of...

pivotal actions in the game that were on him the the strike for the goal and the the quality of that tackle which as he said afterwards in his interview you mistime that by a millisecond and that's a you know a penalty and a red card potentially although not necessarily together with double jeopardy but you know what i'm saying he was running a lot of risks and uh if anyone's going to get a penalty and a red card against us just to say it's a new rule yeah exactly yeah

No choice for the referees. No choice. No choice to send him off and ban him for 10 games. I'm sorry about that. I was thinking to myself about, you know, when people going on about the wall and the referee and thinking like, you know, some people were actually blaming Arsenal. Like they should have, you know, they should have done something about the wall. And I just had this imaginary kind of,

vaudeville moment of our players going up. Excuse me, Mr. Referee, sir. I do believe that that might just be a touch of a could possibly re-look at the length of, you know, I mean, you know, they're just going to get booked, aren't they? They're just going to get booked. It's just not going to happen. So, but yeah, Declan, look, by his own admission, I think it's been a mixed season for him. I think he's had moments of great quality and spells where he's been

He's frustratingly a little bit below the standards that he sets himself. He had a long period where he looked really, really knackered and was just sort of ploughing through. He looked leggy, but he looks like he's over that hump and able to provide something that no one else provides in that team. And I think his leadership, the way he leads by example, is massive.

But he is a great striker of the ball and he is someone who should be and is very capable of much better numbers in terms of goals. Just by virtue of if there's a way of getting him, instead of feeling like he's got to do everything, having that kind of slightly more design about where he is and when so that he can get himself in shooting positions more often.

Because I think the more Arsenal can get him into shooting positions, I think he's very capable of going on quite a tidy run.

It does look like he's trying to. And Adrian, briefly, how do you feel about, you know, celebrating in front of the United fans and Martinelli telling him to get back because we're at 1-1 and, you know, is there some sort of discord? What do you think about all that? I don't know. I doubt there's any discord. I just think he scored a great goal at Old Trafford. It's a big goal. We had time to get the winner. I don't know.

I'm all for players celebrating. I want to see players with personality. I want to see characters come to the fore. And Declan Rice is my favourite character in the team at the moment. He plays with so much personality. I think he's a joy to watch because there's no one that wants it more than Declan Rice. No one that's trying hard at it.

seemingly, than him. And there was time as well. It's not like when we were 3-0 down against Bournemouth and we got back to 3-0 and Olivier Giroud scored, de-equalised and then did his scorpion kick celebration because he was desperate to do it. And we're going, you know what? Why don't we go on and win the game? It's a slightly different thing. It's no biggie. I think it's more than enough to celebrate that goal. But yeah, we...

It didn't register on my radar, if I'm being brutally honest. No, no, no. I just heard about it because Gabriel Martinelli was slightly sort of upset or something. But I'm glad to see him back though, Martinelli as well, looking sharp. And you know what? That's a positive, I think. We don't need to talk about that game anymore. There's other bits and pieces. But we're going to have a chat with Martin Kerr. And we'll also, by the way, it's 200 games for Mikel Arteta. And we have a new sporting director as well. So we'll talk about that.

after the break. You don't wake up dreaming of McDonald's fries. You wake up dreaming of McDonald's hash browns. McDonald's breakfast comes first.

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200 games for Mikel Arteta, Amy. I mean, it's funny, isn't it? These stats sort of happen and you look at the win-loss record and it's very, very good. It's up there with some of the best managers in the Premier League. I sort of don't care that much, really. I don't know how you feel about the whole thing, really. I mean, he's got a decent, say he's 118, drawn 37, lost 45. But what does it matter? Sorry, when you say you don't care, what do you mean? You don't care about stats?

generally don't care that he's got 200 games. I'm not quite sure

Shall I follow what you mean? I'm saying that I don't care about that stat in particular. I mean, he's our manager and he's doing well. And in the main, I'm enjoying the work that he's doing. And everything else, I'm not really... Oh, it's 200, is it? You know, it's a bit like the players when they say that, you know, that was the 1,000th goal scored in the Premier League on a Sunday. I can't give a s***, mate. You know, that's sort of how I feel about it. That's what I'm talking about. Okay. Um...

Yeah, I don't really know what to say, to be honest. No, no, fair enough. Fair enough. Maybe it was me just stating an opinion, but you know what? Adrian, you got anything to say about Mikel Arteta, 200 games? I mean, I'm happy he's our manager. Yeah, definitely. No, he's done a great job. Loads to like about him. He's got to be one of the most highly regarded players

young coaches in the game. I think we're lucky to have him. He's one of our biggest assets. The one caveat, the one sort of little asterisk there is trophies and maybe a slight regression this season. I know that there are a lot of Arsenal fans out there, understandably so, that are disappointed with how we've played this season. And I get that. I think there has been a slight regression, which you never want that.

But at the same time, there's so many circumstances that have gone absolutely against us. And some other managers might have allowed that frustration to get the better of them. And that could have rubbed off on the team. You know, we've seen clubs like Spurs and Man U and Chelsea and others have absolute car crash seasons where they go from Champions League football every year to 10th or 12th.

We're still second. We're still, you know, the next best outside of Liverpool. And I think that's in part down to the way that he's carried himself this season through very difficult circumstances. Yeah. We also have, Amy, a new sporting director. This is good news, isn't it? I mean, you wrote a piece about this, didn't you? And...

Can we get a bit of background about the guy? Well, I think there's a very big background piece coming out a little later or tomorrow from one of our writers out in Spain, which will fill in a lot of detail because obviously the vast majority of his work over the last decade or so has been with Atletico Madrid. I tried to look at it from the point of view of Arsenal, really, rather than the point of view of him. And...

This sporting director decision, who they go for at this particular moment in time, feels like quite a pivotal moment in the life of Arsenal, Arteta and this team. Everybody would agree that the last two transfer windows were questionable, or other words could be applicable. Good word! And that follows a period where

You know, I think Arsenal had some pretty decent transfer windows. Yes. But it's interesting how quickly one or two iffy ones allied to, you know, problems that have surfaced within the life of the squad have

have been really damaging. You know, you can undo quite a lot of good work quite quickly, essentially. It's often said if you're trying to rebuild a team that you might need several windows to get there because you can't do it all at once, which is true. And it's really important that Arsenal don't sort of undo a lot of good work by falling into, you know, not performing well when it comes to these opportunities that come twice a year.

to reshape your squad and to make yourself stronger and better and push everything on. And it felt like, obviously, the Edo decision to leave came unexpectedly. So it left Arsenal in a bit of a hole. And you could argue that the January window was problematic just because while they promoted his deputy, Jason Eto, the circumstances were such that they just weren't stable or solid enough across the

whole club's recruitment team to, you know, to deal with that. But this summer, I'm most glad that Arsenal have made their decision timing-wise in time to attack the summer properly. Because if it had gone, it's already been four months to get to this point. And if it went on much longer, it doesn't give a new person a huge amount of time to come in. You know, because let's be honest, a lot of the, all the planning, all the preparations for Arsenal

whatever happens in the summer are very much underway right now. It's not even like it's just started. It's been since the end of January. Everything is full throttle, focusing on preparing all the groundwork to have the best summer that you can. It felt to me that as we're at this crossroads, they had a choice. But which type of person they go for. When you look at the names that were in the long list, there was a real range.

You know, someone like Dan Ashworth, who comes with sort of Premier League experience and he's been around a lot of clubs, is known to Richie Garlett. Keeping Jason Ato, who's popular inside the club and loves the club, has the club at heart, but maybe doesn't have that same experience or clout. Someone like Berta.

who is a kind of career sporting director who's been around a massive club who have been competing in a top league and punching above their weight at times against maybe wealthier or, you know, bigger fish in their particular pond in terms of Barcelona and Real Madrid. And as done, you know, that club have done amazingly well.

with obviously Simeone mostly being the manager of the players they brought in and Berto with some of the deals that he's done to keep that squad ticking over. So it's a fascinating period because this feels so crunch. I think for Arteta, for all the improvements that have happened in his time, I'm sure that there's a little bit less patience maybe for the long-term, medium-term project. He needs it now. He needs the difference makers now.

right away. I don't think he can wait any longer. I don't think fishing around on the last day of the window to bring in Sterling on loan as an extra attacker, that cannot happen again. Arsenal have to shortcut getting the bits of magic in to take this squad from being second to

perhaps three years in a row, we're obviously not there yet this season, and getting to push it. If it's going to happen, they have to be aggressive. So they've brought in somebody new to sprinkle some new ideas. I think he's a big character in sporting director circles. He's going to be different, but it's also, by choosing someone like that,

He's got to make those relationships with the people inside the club because it's not like he turns up and they go, hey, ciao, Andrea. You know, here's the budget. Do what you like. Doesn't work like that. He's coming into a recruitment gang, if you like. It's not all on him. He's obviously important, but they do things as a group differently.

They identify players. They speak to agents. They approach the player themselves and sell the club to them. They come up with the deal. All this stuff involves a bunch of people. That includes Richard Garlick, James King, who's in charge of the contracts, Mikel Arteta, obviously, and ultimately Josh Kroenke, who essentially says yay or nay to the release of funds for a deal. It's not just on the sporting director side.

He is an important figure within the group that make these decisions. So, you know, pronto, he needs to get cracking and get relationships going so that they're singing from the same song sheet and that there's not some sort of like, I want this and I want that and who's actually going to be making the calls here. The fact is, Gabrielle,

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They get a humbric off and you can see that they are more free to play. We're joined by a very special guest, Martin Keown. Hello, Martin. Hi, guys. Nice to be on your pod. Hello. Hi, Martin. Thank you very much. Arsenal fans in the UK and Ireland can watch our UEFA Champions League journey live on TNT Sports.

where you'll be working as a pundit for the PSV second leg coverage. Yeah, 7-1 up. It's a bit...

Have you ever been in a situation like this? Well, Amy would tell you we'd been standard of the age, didn't we? Seven something? 7-0. Back in the day. So it's all been done before, but not in the Champions League. I'm not sure if that was the second leg. Was it the second leg? So I don't remember having this sort of privilege of being able to rest everybody or make changes to this level. And I think a lot of the players need that rest of some sort.

When Airey particularly needs a rest. Haven't they just been away in Dubai for a week? It was only a few weeks ago. I mean, I'm genuinely asking this. I think there's a mental strain to it. Look at the changes. He's only changing the odd player, isn't he? In every game, the last four or five games, he's only changed one player every time, really. He's not, he's in a sort of, we're asking a lot of Lewis Skelly and when Airey, young kids, he's 17 years of age, when Airey. So, you know, I wouldn't mind giving him a rest in midweek.

there's one or two and and the 7-1 gives you the luxury to be able to do that so there's been some good news in that performance i i certainly thought um the makeshift striker marino

The way that he was able to float around in that position was looking very much like Havertz, you know, in that match. And I thought, okay, we've answered all of our, all of our prayers have been answered. But when you play against a team that just, you know, opens the door to us as they did, we can still destroy them. But everybody else sits edge of the box and Arsenal having trouble at the moment breaking teams down.

Yeah, Adrian did say, have they never seen us play before, PSV? And I remember you said this last week and the way they were so open. And obviously we saw the contrast with Manchester United at the weekend. Adrian, say something. What have you got to say for yourself? What do you think? I want to ask you, Martin, what do we do? What's the fix for coming up against a low block then? Because we haven't got a frontline striker at the moment. Everyone that's got any sense...

will set up like Manchester United did at the weekend. What's our way around it? I still think the carnage in terms of the movement, the interchange of the positions, popping up here, there and everywhere, I still think it can work against a deep line defence. But...

Is there anything you've got in mind that can fix this issue? Because Arsenal are struggling against teams like that. I was never really in this position. Obviously, we had Henry, we had Bergkamp, and there's sometimes who without them and Wiltord. But if it were without Wiltord and Canu, we might have had an issue. So it's been unprecedented, the amount of players that are not available. That's an issue. I do feel that you need pace in that central area. And we are quite fixed.

So we like to, if we, you know, the canvas we create is two wide players that are fixed and then our, they, so they pin the opposition's fullbacks and then our fullbacks are the ones that end up in really sort of good positions. It's almost the wrong way around in the modern day game. I'd like to see when Aries certainly go much more centrally,

and change it a little bit. And maybe we have two players parked on one side just to change the picture and just see how the opposition would deal with that. But we had 67% possession against Manchester United. I was sitting at home in my armchair and it was kind of like, it just felt...

same old story but you as a player you've got to retain the belief you can't not believe in what you're doing but you know even you know Amarim was smart enough to change his tactics it would be critical of him for not doing that and he did it against Arsenal you know just that deep so no they've got to keep looking for solutions I think now Martinelli's fit Adrian I think if he becomes more central he's got wheels he's quick

I don't want to see him stood outside, but maybe he's like... Nowadays, there are inside forwards, aren't there? You know, you see Salah. He's not a proper winger. He sits in between. So we need to sort of maybe have to have a different maker to allow for that pace for Martinelli with two players that sort of sit in those positions. So there's time on the training pitch to do that. But we've got to get results. We play Cherise after this one. They've just won two games, winnable games against Southampton and Leicester.

So there's a bonfire beneath us, you know, and we've got to start scoring goals to try and make it to second place. That in itself is going to have to be a victory now. Martin, I've got a couple of questions. The first one, as a defender...

If you were coming up against the team that didn't have all their forwards, if it kind of looked a little bit like Arsenal look now, are you rubbing your hands together and thinking, thank you very much? Well, it was interesting when Nunes, the manager for Forest, said that he would ordinarily might have played a five, but because Arsenal don't have a striker, what's the point in having three central defenders roaming around with no one to pick up?

And that kind of said it all, really. Because an Arsenal team that's going to win something, it's going to have to have a striker that terrifies the life out of the Premier League. And that isn't there yet. You know, you think of Henry, what he did to his opponents. You know, what a great talent. And those players give you the belief that,

to be champions, to win something, to get over the line. An Ian Wright goal can cling on to that then. And this current group haven't got that at the moment. So I do feel for them. I do feel that every compartment of the team though, until we get to the top of the ladder in front of the goal, is kind of in place. Declan now is going to a new level. The two central defenders, it was a bit open yesterday, but the goalkeeper then showed his worth.

Because he, at the beginning, was a bit iffy about him at the beginning. Now his passing is amazing, but he's saving us as well, isn't he? Making vital saves. So it's kind of all there and the pieces in the jigsaw are nearly in place, but they're not in place. And then our rivals suddenly have an incredible picture, don't they now, at Liverpool?

You know, but who, you know, everyone's saying they didn't think, see that happening, but why not? They were already great talents that Klopp had put together. Painstakingly, his second coming really, his second Klopp team was coming together in the background. But everyone wants to beat Arsenal with this stick that, you know, they were going to win it today. There's no divine right to win anything.

And Liverpool have won it by a row. You got me very nostalgic when you were mentioning sort of, you know, Carnu, Wiltour, Pires, Bergkamp, Henry and that. And when you've got a team where all the departments are top notch, I remember you and your peers always saying it was harder in training against those forwards than who you'd come up against on a Saturday. And I think they felt the same, that it was harder in the week having to try and get past you lot than it would be maybe the guys that they would come up against. Do you feel that...

It's really needed for this entire team to get that right because sometimes the defence gets a bit exposed because maybe in the week, particularly at the moment, they're not getting as challenged as much as they might do if everybody was fit. Can you lose your energy a bit? There's such little time between the games. So they have to manage those minutes on the training ground. But you essentially, when you start, you come together as a group in pre-season and you look around the room

And you need to know that you can rely on everybody, that you're with a group of players that are some of the best players that have ever played the game.

When you get to that level, you can achieve special things. And that's what we were able to do. So we were all very privileged. I spent a lifetime really. Look, I've been in an amazing youth team. Eight of us made it into the first team. So every dressing room I was in was a decent one. But you're looking at, you know, it started with the likes of Omar's and the Nalka and Manny Petit. You know, you really couldn't believe how good they were, how quick they were. And it was like, I was giggling when they got the ball because I played against it all week. And I thought, no, Premier League's not ready for this. These are too good.

So we've got to keep building, keep believing, and we get players. There might be some uncomfortable decisions here. There might be some players that their noses are put out of joint. There might have to be some, quite a bit of work in the transfer market is one or two players might have to leave the football club because they haven't quite hit the levels. And other players come in because Arteta has to be ruthless, really. You know, of course, he loves these players, but they haven't quite been able to deliver for him.

the end of last season, we, what was it? 16 games? 16-1-1. We won 14 of them. Yeah. Yeah. And it was like that. So therefore, maybe that gave us the feeling that we didn't need a striker. We scored 91 goals. Yeah. Last season. But he's, I think he's relentless, the boss. I think he's going to go big in the transfer market. There's rumours there's a centre forward already ready to come in or someone's already done. I don't know who that's going to be. We have a new director of football coming in. I don't mean the timing of their dude going when,

when he did was ideal at all. As much as we thank him for his work at the club, that wasn't ideal to lose him in that window. And the lateness of the injuries to Havertz and, you know, Havertz didn't do that injury until the 8th of February.

Jim, they officially didn't announce it until the 18th of February. So, you know, you can't really plan. But I think we all wanted a different type of striker, didn't we? A look at Ian Wright type finisher, somebody with a bit more pace, somebody who could score a goal out of nothing. And let's see now what they bring in. I mean, if you're a head of recruitment now, you're working night and day, surely, aren't you now? Try and find that player in all areas. You know, there are free transfers everywhere.

the uncut diamonds, you know, the expensive players. It's not just the Declan Rises out there. You've got to go and look below the surface and bring players that Wormuth have taken and Brian have taken and say, look, okay, let's be really competitive in that area and let's take them before they do. Martin, we're thinking that second is again a possibility, third season in a row. I know you've been in this situation before.

You'd been in this situation after you'd won the title, hadn't you? So it's a slightly different feeling. You know you've been there. How do they keep that motivation going? You can say it's different, but it's the same because you don't know if you can be a champion again. You don't know if you've lost it. Have I lost the ability to really win something? We were on the pitch against Liverpool. Somehow, if you were there that day at the Millennium Stadium,

how did we not win that game you know how did we not beat Galatasaray in that match they're down to 10 men how did we not beat Manchester United in 1999 but the thing is like I took that hurt you know and I stood with other players and it was like we can't let this happen again

And we're not going to lose our belief. And I say, well, when I look back, that was a special group of players. And they're going to have to demonstrate now that they're special as well. Because they get no thanks for what they've done in the last two or three years. No thanks at all, because they don't win anything. There's no lovely photographs, is there? Trophies of the cloud applauding them. They've not felt that feeling. And I want it for this group.

but they just the pieces aren't quite there yet and we've got to keep believing that they're going to find them One piece Martin that is absolutely there is Declan Rice you mentioned him earlier I mean this is a player that plays with serious personality he's driving this team at the minute no one seems to want it more than him

Is the debate over now? Is he a box-to-box midfielder? Is that it now? Or can you see as part of the reshaped Arsenal next season, him dropping back or not? In the final 11, in the final piece of the jigsuit, he'll be sitting in the front of that defence.

And if he wants to roam forward, he can. And there'll be another player equally adapt to try and sit alongside him so that we don't just become, we have an all purpose midfield three that can do all of those jobs. Like maybe the one of the three. Okay. But there's another player that can sit alongside him and he can get forward because he has demonstrated he's got everything in his game. He's finishing now. His top, top level is assists from the corners. I mean, that was innovation from the manager.

when they went away to Dubai last year, he came back taking those. So he's got...

everything in his game. He's got, I like his personality. He doesn't look to me to be one of those that feel sorry for himself at any point. He's a driving force and we need to embrace that and get like-minded characters like that into the group. Martin, I know you're going to have to head off at this point. We did talk to you just before we started recording. Can we have a song for the podcast, please? Because we always, we always choose a song depending on our mood. I'm going to go with Johnny Logan. We're coming up to the Eurovision Song Contest, aren't we? It's just that time of year. Yeah.

What's Another Year by Johnny Logan. Good choice. What's Another Year

This has been very entertaining and also depressing, but thank you. Nice to see you, Martin. Does Amy approve? That's the big question. Amy's there. She's the knowledge, the fount of all knowledge. Amy? Amy's just appalled. Oh, no. I mean, we had enough. We get enough cheesy tunes from Adrian. Adrian, you've still got a way to go. Thank you, Martin. Nice to see you. Thanks, guys. See you soon. See you.

Come see me also! Come see me also! You know me!

Let's have a song then from each of you. Amy, have you got a song? Well, I thought I'd choose some Italian house. Well, obviously. I'm a new man. It's not quite happened yet, but it seems to be inevitable. One of my favourite old Italian house tracks is Soft House Company and What You Need. Obviously, he's got to sort out what Arsenal need and Arsenal need to hope he is what they need.

I love the idea that you've got a favourite Italian house track or one of a favourite movie. How's it compared to like English house or American or... It's a little bit... No, no, it's a bit more jazzy, a bit more piano. I don't want jazz and piano. It's just a slightly different, a bit more strings. It's just, yeah. As someone... It was a whole Italian house movement in the 90s. Is it in Europe's top five leagues for house? LAUGHTER

Well, in the 1990s it was. I'd say yes. Do you know what? I'm not really interested in jazz in a house setting, but you know what? As someone who frequents these establishments on occasion...

Adrian, what about you? Have you got some Spanish jazz or something? What have you got? Some Slovenian folk music? What have you got? No. I think there will be a bit of regret there with that performance. In a way, I kind of almost regret getting so excited after PSV because I wanted the same thing to happen again. I thought it could happen.

against United and I think if we had another go at that game we'd win it easily so I'm going to go with Cher if I could turn back time because that is I'm afraid a missed opportunity for us to smash Manchester United

I've gone for Alanis Morissette because I found out I'm going to Glastonbury and she's on and I'm going to go and see her and I'm very, very excited. I do love particularly that album. But she did a song called Reasons I Drink and, you know, watching Arsenal every so often can get a bit like that. These are the reasons I drink.

That's it for this edition of Hand Break Off. Thank you to Amy Lawrence. Thank you to Adrian Clark. Thank you to Martin Keown. Very lovely to speak to you. And thanks to Robbie, our producer. And we'll speak to you after Super Shark Highway on Wednesday night.

Thank you.

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