One in, one out as Saka returns in style
49:03 Share

The spirit of innovation is deeply ingrained in America, and Google is helping Americans innovate in ways both big and small. The Department of Defense is working with Google to help secure America's digital defense systems, from establishing cloud-based zero-trust solutions to deploying the latest AI technology. This is a new era of American innovation. Find out more at g.co slash American innovation.

Business taxes. We're stressing about all the time and all the money you spent on your taxes. This is my bill? Now Business Taxes is a TurboTax small business expert who does your taxes for you and offers year-round advice at no additional cost so you can keep more money in your business. Now this is taxes. Intuit TurboTax. Get an expert now on TurboTax.com slash business. Only available with TurboTax Live Full Service.

Hey, I'm Robert Vinlow and I'm from New York Times Games and I'm here talking to people about Wordle and the Wordle Archive. Do you all play Wordle? I play it every day. Alright, I have something exciting to show you. It's the Wordle Archive. Whaaaaat? Okay, that's awesome. So now you can play every Wordle that has ever existed. There's like a thousand puzzles. Wordle Archive. Now you can do yesterday's Wordle if you missed it. Yeah. New York Times Games subscribers can now access the entire Wordle Archive. Find out more at NYTimes.com/games

The Athletic FC Podcast Network. The only way to score is, of course, to play with a handbrake off. Hello, I'm Ian Stone. This is Handbrake Off, the Arsenal podcast brought to you by The Athletic. Tuesday night, the Arsenal beat Fulham 2-1 at the Emirates. To reflect on the game and also look forward to Everton at the weekend, I'm joined by James McNicholas and Adrian Clarke. Good afternoon.

Good evening, whichever it is. Hello. Afternoon here. Anyway, earlier this week, I was...

Arsenal announced they were launching a new dating show called The Big Match. It's true, I'm not making this up. It's a show where potential dating matches will attend football matches for a blind date with a fellow gooner to watch Arsenal play in order to find their soulmates. Do you know what? Before we talk about it, have you had a nice or funny footballing memory you've shared with a partner? Adrian, do you share this football stuff with your partner or is it very much work and then you get home and you don't talk about it? Yeah.

Yeah, look, Kate doesn't mind football, but she's not massively into it. So, yeah, if she never went to another match again, I think she could live with it. One of our first dates was a famous Arshaven four-goal haul at Anfield. It's the only time I've ever sat in a pub with Kate.

watching football. I don't know what it was. I think we'd arranged to meet each other and then I said, look, I can't miss this game. Can we just sort of chat around it while the game's on? I think she really enjoyed it because it was a crazy game. The one memory that I really got is when I took Ted and Evie to the game against Leeds a couple of years ago. It was Ted's first ever match

And they came into the breakdown live box and we were smashing leads. I think we got a third and fourth goal in the second half and Tess was on Kate's lap.

fast asleep through most of the second half and I filmed it and when he's older he'll be reminded of his lack of interest on the big day so yeah that was quite a nice memory it was definitely funny you'll hold that over his head until your dying day won't you really I mean I'd like the fact by the way that you took Kate to the pub and watched the game and she's stuck around I mean really that tells you that this could work yeah exactly

Exactly. I knew I was on to a winner. So yeah, no, happy day. It was a good one. I mean, it was one of my favourite matches involving Arsenal ever, really, because it was just, it was a crazy game, wasn't it? And Arshavin was such a likeable player. And like, just his face when he scored the fourth goal, it was beautiful.

Yeah, I know she's not talking about Kate at this point. She just happened to be there. But how lovely. Really, it's like listening to a Barbara Cartland novel, isn't it? For anyone under 50, she was a romantic writer back in at some point. James, do you share with your partner this football stuff or does she also, she has a similar sort of vibe to Adrian's wife?

Yeah, I wouldn't say it's something we share. I think actually it's quite healthy probably that she's not that interested. It gives me that bit of distance.

Because I met my wife in my other line of work, we met at the Edinburgh Fringe and we knew each other from the comedy circuit. My obsession with football and sort of the degree to which it was part of my life was almost something that she discovered about me quite late. I always had to come out to her really. It's like, you know, I know you think of me as a comedian, but I'm actually a football journalist. But I do remember like when we were first dating in 2016, she's from Reading. That's her hometown town.

and hometown club. And her granddad used to take her when she was quite little to watch Reading play. And Arsenal played Reading in the EFL Cup in 2016. And we went on quite an early date. And I had a look back at the team for that day. I won't make any of you guess the lineup, but it was Emi Martinez in goal,

A back four of Carl Jenkinson, Rob Holding, the other Gabriel, Gabriel Paulista. Paulista, yeah. Kieran Gibbs. Elneny and Maitland-Niles in Holding midfield. And then Oxlade-Chamberlain, Iwobi and Jeff Wren-Adelaide behind Lucas Perez in attack. So there you go. A salubrious night in Arsenal. Arsenal were 2-0 winners, by the way. Oxlade-Chamberlain scored both goals.

It must have been a League Cup game, yeah? Yeah, League Cup, yeah. Yeah, if you'd have taken it to the 7-5, imagine. Oh, yeah. By the way, we wish Lucas Perez well. I read the other day he'd been struck down by TB, which feels quite a bit of a shock. So, yeah, I hope he's doing all right. We wish him all the best. My missus couldn't give a s***.

To be honest with you, couldn't care less. But you know what? We've been together all this time. I mean, once in a while she'll chip in. And obviously it's in the house quite regularly. It's on the TV. So she's sort of imbibed by osmosis, really. But couldn't care less. And fair enough. And I think what you said, James, is right. It's sort of healthy. We have different interests, really. I'm not sure I'd really want to share Arsenal with her, to be honest with you.

I'm hearing you. On this big match, do you think that it was announced in the run-up to April Fool's Day, just in case people thought it was an April Fool's? Because it's a bit random, isn't it? Yeah, it is real, by the way. It's legit. Arsenal are piloting this show. It's sort of an interesting development, actually, that...

More and more football clubs. I suppose the demand for content is just so great and so enormous. And they are effectively these big media organisations. So I think clubs are starting to be a bit more inventive and creative in terms of what can they do. But I have to say, I probably will watch it out of nothing else but curiosity. Definitely.

Definitely. Yeah. Same here. The thing is, I always used to say that a comedy night was a good night for, uh, if you want to go on a date, because if you sit there and you laugh at the same things, then you've got a chance, right? Plus you don't have to talk to each other. You'd have to make small talk for two hours while you watch the show. Similar thing. It's a game really. If you're, your prospective partner is as excited as you, there's a possibility it might work. Um,

There's a lot of possibilities of hugging as well, which, you know, the awkwardness might get taken away, you know, around goals. That's true. Comforting. Comforting. If now I think about it, this actually could work. Anyway, Arsenal 2, Fulham 1. You wouldn't want to take them to the first half of this game, would you, really? Because it was...

pretty flat, to be honest with you. Miles Lewis, Skelly and Ethan went airy start. Trossard dropped to the bench. Martinelli had a very, very good game. My feelings about this game revolve really around two incidents. I mean, the first one was Gabriel getting injured on 15 minutes. We start with the depressing one and then move on to the happy one after that, shall we? Well, yeah, go on then. That was the chronology, I suppose, in the game, wasn't it?

It's sort of what happened. I mean, I missed the first 20 minutes, to be honest. I've watched them since then, but not a lot happened. But I missed the first 20 minutes because it was a 5.45 in the morning kickoff here in Australia. And I came in and Gabriel's off. Well, Jakob Kirill's on. And I thought, hello, what's going on here? Then I find out he's injured. James, I watched on the whistle that you did. And you said his face when he was walking off looked...

look pretty much like he knew. Is there any news since then, by the way? Has anything come out since then? No, no, no news. Miklatica said after the game last night that both Gabriel and Jürgen Timber would be assessed today. I have to say, in the case of Gabriel, obviously there'll be an assessment on the severity, but I don't think there can be too much doubt about what he's done. When you look at the way he's running back towards his own goal, the way he suddenly pulls up,

unfortunately we've become very accustomed to seeing what a hamstring injury looks like at Arsenal this season that's another one and it was writ large on his face really the disappointment because I think

I think every footballer knows, hamstring goes, you're looking at a minimum of three weeks. And he doesn't deserve to miss this game, does he? In terms of the way he's played and what he's given to the club. This is the biggest game we've had in quite a few seasons. And he deserves to be on that pitch. He does. And it would be a massive game for him personally, because this is a game with, you know,

Coming up against some top Brazilian talent as well. It'll be a game that's massive in Brazil, I'm sure, that people will be watching. He missed, actually, the second international during the break. He was suspended. He played against Colombia and was suspended for Brazil against Argentina. And I think collectively, as a fan base, we were like, that's great news. We'll get him back early. He'll be well-rested. And then, sods law, something like this happens. I think as well, for Arsenal...

The reason it's so disappointing is that when I sort of think of that Real Madrid tie in a week's time, every iteration, every scenario that I play through in my mind, which has Arsenal come out on top,

is kind of reliant on that defensive foundation that he and Saliba provide. You know, that really was kind of the foothold that was making me feel, we've got a chance here. Without that, I think it's going to be extremely tough. And let's look at the broader picture as well. It's not just Gabriel. We've got concerns over Timber, took a couple of knocks last night. Ben White wasn't fit to be in the squad. Ricardo Calafuri, absent with an injury on international duty. Once again,

A part of the pitch has been struck by several injuries simultaneously. Quite. I was so gutted about this. I'm absolutely with James, Adrian. The defence...

Whenever I looked at this game, I thought, you know what? They have got an unbelievable team around Madrid and they've got a brilliant attack. But we have got a brilliant defence. And that central defensive partnership is such a huge part of that. And like you say, Uri and Timber, we don't know about him as well. I mean, he went down injured early and then he stayed on and he sort of limped off a bit later in the game. And we are really short of defenders. It just reduces our chances of getting through it, doesn't it? I think it does. I think...

Probably quite substantially, really, because Gabriel and Saliba is a fantastic combination. And obviously Mbappe, Vini Jr., Rodrigo, Bellingham, you know, it's an awesome forward line. But I think most Arsenal fans would have trusted those two to handle it as best they could and potentially, you know, dominate someone like Mbappe. But yeah.

Yeah, it's going to be really awkward. What does Mikel Arteta do? You know, does he rush Calafuri back, for instance, or Ben White? Does he give him game time at the weekend in a bid to try and get him up to speed?

I'm more optimistic on Timber because it felt like it was more of a contact injury. Yes. Maybe a dead leg or something, just above his knee. And would you play him at centre half? Timber? Uri and Timber, yes. I'd probably play White at centre half ahead. I'd probably stick with Timber at right back, if I'm honest, if White's fit. If White's fit enough, I would go with White and Saliba if Calafuri's not right. Even though Kivior did some good things in this game, I think...

it's just football at the very, very highest level around Madrid. And I don't know if he might get, get found out. He made one or two mistakes in this game. You know, the big miss from Rodrigo Munoz, you know, he kind of leaves him unmarked inside the box, loses his position and,

There was a couple of other instances where Traore, a heavy touch allowed Traore to run on. He's very quick Traore though, isn't he? To be fair. Very quick. So is Mbappe. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I think, I think in Michal Arteta's head, he'll be really hoping that White or Calafiri can come good in time. But,

whether that happens or not, let's see. And we really, really don't want to lose Thomas Partey from central midfield. I think that it's important that he plays at the base there with Rice and Edegaard. Because especially in the first leg where we want to be, you know, pinning Real Madrid in, we want to be getting at them, creating chances, playing through the lines. I think that Partey really has to play in midfield. So fingers crossed on Timber. Just to jump in, you know, we're all saying

the defensive foundation might have proved to be the key against Real. But maybe we're looking at it all wrong. They shipped four last night against Sociedad.

Maybe we'll come on to the attacking boost we received against Fulham, but maybe, as Adrian suggests, this first leg, we've got to get at them. We've got to try and expose what vulnerabilities they have. Just tear into them, right? I mean, it's not like we can rely on whatever defenders we have in the game. We can't. They also scored four last night, it's worth saying. So, you know.

I was really enjoying it up to that point. I didn't know the school. Come see the Arsenal! Come see the Arsenal! You only come to see.

Have you ever wondered what goes through an athlete's mind before they step on the field? Or about the secret, superstitious pre-game rituals? Hi, I'm Isabella Rossellini. In the latest episode of This is Not a Beauty podcast, we'll speak to the barber responsible for the hairstyles of some of the world's greatest athletes to dig into how beauty shapes sports. Listen now on your favorite podcast platform.

Before we get to one of my favourite moments of the season, another goal from Mikel Mourinho, who, by the way, has now scored more goals for Arsenal than everyone else except Kai Havertz this season. Is that right? I mean, he's up there five or six in the league.

Ridiculous. He is so calm. I also thought, by the way, his general link play, there was a couple of moments when he picked the ball up in midfield and I like the way he turns away from trouble quite nicely as well. Nice little move that. Timber, one airy and a good pull back and then a little lucky with the shot, Adrian. But, you know, he's calm, isn't he, when he's got a sighted goal?

Yeah, he really is calm. Yeah, he had good touch in a tight area. Did well to get his shot away. And yeah, he gets a bit of luck there. But yeah, he's got a habit of scoring big goals, opening goals. I think five of his six in the Premier League for us have been first goals in the game, which is always important. And I really liked his part in the second one as well. I mean, the numbers are scary. You'll be able to read it later on the Arsenal Analyze piece that I'll do on the Arsenal website. But, you know, when he goes to press, you know,

He's relentless. Him and Erdogan are brilliant at it. And he was the one that when impressed Joachim Andersen, forced a loose pass into that Rice intercepts that. And then when Rice gives it to Martinelli, off goes Marino with a lovely sort of angled run to the left wing to really spread the pitch out and to pull defenders around.

And without that run, we don't score that goal. Saka doesn't get that moment and he makes a great run, delivers a good cross that's flicked on by Martinelli and the rest is history. So I think he's really good up front. You can't magic loads of pace, unfortunately, but every other aspect of his play in that position is really good, in my opinion. And I think even though this is like a...

a sort of interim role for Mikel Moreno. I do think that next season and at various junctures, there'll be moments where Mikel Arteta sticks him up top because I think he's shown...

that you can do it. Plus it can give Kai Habert to rest as well. Well, let's talk about the moment that everybody loved last night. And it was, well, there were two moments. One was Bukayo Saka coming on and it was, it reminded me, James, of when Thierry Henry came on against Leeds in that cup game. The general level of excitement as he's warming up and stripping off and he's getting ready and, you know, you just, you

You sensed it, and I'm only watching it on TV. You were in the stadium. The noise when he's coming on was just splendid, wasn't it? And everybody loves him, and you could feel it. Yeah, a few people said that.

to me about being a bit reminiscent of Omri coming back to the stadium in 2012, was it? I mean, what's extraordinary about that is Omri had been away for five years at that point in time. And this felt akin to the kind of reception a player gets when he's been out with a cruciate ligament injury for 12 months, you know, and we've sort of forgotten to the sight of them. It's only been three and a half months for Kaisaka, but man, it's felt like a long time. Yeah. It's been a really...

testing period for the club and you know we've we've endlessly debated the attack we've seen us go out to cup competitions we've seen the league challenge and

go awry somewhat. I think people are just so delighted to see Bakayo back. He's a symbol of optimism and hope, I think, for the club. He just brings such good vibes and at a time when it's really necessary. And I think, in a way, thank goodness we had that because I think, you know, in the light of the Gabriel injury, it could have a really different complexion today. There's a bit of balance offered by the fact that Saka is back, that he had that immediate impact and, yeah,

Yeah, it was a dream return for him. Quite. I've done a couple of gigs just before I started doing this podcast, and I've had people at both gigs, Arsenal fans, want to talk to me about Bukayo Saka coming back, and the smiles on their faces. I mean, it's just infectious, isn't it, really? And then, and then, he's on the pitch seven minutes, Adrian, and he scores. And it's...

I mean, there's somebody's writing his scripts. It's another beautiful moment. Great goal, actually. As you're saying, Mika Marino starts that press. Rice gives it out to Mika Marino. He crosses to Martinelli and that flick and then Bakay is at the back post. And that sort of arms spread out wide going, well, what did you expect? I mean,

I mean, it is one of the highlights of the season, isn't it, really? Definitely, yeah. I think a minute before that, I'd said, look, let's just temper our expectations around Bukayo Saka. He's been out for ages. Why? He needs to feel his way back in. Let's not get our hopes up too high that he's going to do something amazing.

and then he goes to score so yeah it made me look silly they were filming us actually myself and Dan Roebuck asked the media during the game I think they're doing like a behind the scenes sort of piece and I dread to watch it because they'll probably use our reaction to the goal but like my smile must have I've got quite a big smile anyway but

It was just the widest it had ever been. You know, I was just absolutely buzzing for him. So, yeah, I dread to think I probably look quite silly, but it was a great moment.

Sort of a hairs on the back of your neck moment, no doubt about that. I think in general, I don't want to put it down or not, in general, I think he was feeling his way back. He didn't really try and take on his man. He sort of kept everything pretty simple. He didn't exert himself overly. He's up against a good player as well, remember, as well. He was not having a good game, if any. I didn't think Robinson was very good, but he is a good player. But a sort of standby, what I said earlier,

before he scored in terms of maybe we should temper our expectations a little bit. I'm still not sold that he will start against Real Madrid because that is a long time to be out. And that game, mark my words, is going to be fast.

It's going to be scarily fast in terms of the speed of the football. You're going to have to have players on the pitch that are super sharp. And look, I think only a really stellar sort of outing against Everton, maybe off the bench, maybe persuade Mikel to start him. Let's see. Well, James, what do you do? Do you start him at the weekend against Everton and maybe bring him off after 50, 60 minutes? Or do you do the same again and bring him on when players are a bit tired and let him have another run out? Because...

It's difficult, isn't it? You want to give him more minutes, don't you, before Madrid? Yeah, I've always been of the mind that the first leg would come a bit too soon for him to start. I've said that throughout. I have to say, seeing him last night and seeing the way Mikel Arteta spoke about him before and after the game. And his readiness. Yeah, I do wonder. It almost felt in a way that Arteta was speaking to Saka.

at times. Sort of giving him that reassurance of you are ready to take this step. You've done the work. You can play without fear. Did you feel the same, Adrian?

Yeah, yeah, I did. Yeah, I think you bang on. I mean, managers are very clever. You know, there's a lot of subliminal messages whenever they speak. It must be hard, Adrian. Have you had hamstring injuries, nasty injuries like that? Yeah, yeah. Only after I retired, funnily enough. I did one in a charity game. No, but what I'm saying is, it's just in terms of coming back, there must, you must be a little bit tentative at first.

you know you haven't sprinted for three months it's the worst one for me because you you know when you get cramp but you know you get that sort of tight that tight feeling in your hammy and that take it's kind of there you know it's there and you think oh am i all right or not and you just got to trust that you've done the right strengthening exercises to to get through it but um

Yeah, look, he made some sprints, you know, he ran around a bit and whatnot. So it's just that that sharpness that you need at the highest level. And this will be the highest level match ever.

that we'll have played for a long time, it's going to be quick. And, you know, I hope he's ready, but, you know, I'd love him to start, but my hunch is that he might not be ready. Let's see. I hope I'm wrong. Second leg. I think that call can't be made today. No. You know, I think a lot will depend on Everton and I don't expect Saka to start that one. But if, as Adrian suggests, he comes on,

And there's a bit of zip there. He's electric. And training, of course. What they see from him in training this week. I think if he gives Arteta a little bit of hope he's ready, I think Arteta will pick him because...

because historically that's what he's done but a lot might depend on what we see at Goodison Park. Let's see on the other side by the way Gabriel Martinelli really an excellent performance yesterday I mean James it felt like that was him really back to his best I mean that

time when he left Castagne sprawling on the floor. It was a great bit of football and he was making those sprints all evening and really unlucky with the offside goal. Only marginal when it was offside. He was a handful, wasn't he?

He was. And I think the big thing is that he looked a threat dribbling, which I don't think he has been at his level in terms of one-on-one getting past his man this season. And he looked much sharper in that regard. I felt for him a bit because if it wasn't for Saka's return, I think we'd have been all waxing lyrical about Martinelli today. It was a really complete performance from him.

And having those two back in tandem obviously adds just another dimension to this team, the threat in behind, the threat they have in one-on-one situations. So very happy for him. At the same time, I think he needs to deliver this level of performance more consistently. You know, he's absolutely got the ability and we've seen it from him in the past, but...

With injuries and inconsistencies, we've not seen him regularly doing this. And I really hope that he can kick on from this point and produce between now and the end of the season. Adrian, he's a confidence player, isn't he? Gabriel Martinelli. He has, he does sit. I mean, you can say that about everyone, but with him...

I'm not saying he's moody. I'm really not. But when he goes off the ball, he really does go off the ball. But when it sort of clicks back in, he's so dangerous. And we just want him to maintain that level. Yeah, we're all confidence players. First of all, confident footballers is miles better than when they're not confident. Yeah, I agree with you guys. You know, it's the dribbling, wasn't it? It was the willingness to take on his man. I always think...

early on in the game because I used to play in that position I always used to the first time I got the ball if I could I'd

I would try to take the player on just to be really positive from the get go. And if obviously if you get round them or even if you win a throw or a corner or you do something, it's a trigger for, it gives you more confidence and encouragement to do it again and again and again. And I think too many times lately, Martelli started games playing it safe, just going back, keep the ball, you know, let's not take any risks. But in this game, it was different. He just went at him and he took him to the cleaners because Stan, you could not wait to,

for the final whistle. It was brilliant. I thought he was phenomenal. Best performance of the season from him easily. Reminded me of 22, 23 Martinelli. Five chances created, 12 touches in the box. That's seven more than any other Arsenal player. Nine crosses, 25 sprints,

three shots they're all match highs for for Arsenal so yeah he was he was great and there's one name on the team sheet there for Real Madrid fitness permitting now I think he's I think he's ahead of Trossard in that battle to start on the left and yeah he'll start against Madrid and before we move on from this game I was reading various people saying that they felt there was a bit of an end of season feel certainly in the first half James would you concur with that I mean it's

We sort of know the league is done. Obviously, if Liverpool slip up, we'll step in. But we need the points. You know, Forest won again last night and they'll keep coming. But...

We sort of feel like second is... That's where we're probably going to end up. Yeah, maybe. I mean, I suppose Forrest, who are just behind us, are playing with a lot more motivation. They're playing for what for them is a huge prize, right? In Champions League qualification. I know it's important to us and to these players and to the club, but I could understand our squad maybe not quite being up for it in quite the same way as Forrest at this point in the season. But this was an important win.

Keeps things moving in the right direction. The last thing we want, and I don't think it will happen now, but is to be dragged back in our league places and get in some sort of battle. But naturally, I do think there's a lot of eyes on Madrid. When Gabriel went off, I don't think anyone was thinking, oh, Sablo is going to be tougher to beat Fulham. They were thinking, is he going to be fit for Real Madrid? When Bukayo Saka came on, it was a lift on the night, but it was all about, is he going to be ready to start again?

in a week's time. And the players are only human. And I suspect there might be a bit of that in their mentality too, although the manager will be working really hard to counteract that. Yeah, I feel that might be more the case with the fans than the players, funnily enough. I didn't necessarily see them holding back in the game. I thought by and large it was a good solid sort of 7 out of 10 performance. But what I really liked about it, and I mentioned this in commentary, was...

When we decided to make purposeful driving runs, we destroyed them. We absolutely cut them open. Remember, they came with a back five, you know, set the stall out to kill the game, really. And to outmaneuver them, we needed runs to pierce the lines. And Martinelli was a trigger. Obviously, Waneri, think about that goal. Great run in behind. You think about Martinelli's... Timber did it. Yeah, Timber did a brilliant surging run. 1-2 with Erdegaard. Yeah.

He winded Berndt-Lennart, didn't he, with a shot. You had Martell's disallowed goal. Brilliant driving run inside Castagne, even though he's a fraction offside. I actually thought there was a real desire to hurt Fulham athletically, physically. And I think Arsenal are always a miles better team when we have that in our make-up. So please bring that next Tuesday. Because I don't think... Real Madrid, if we take it to them,

make life hell for them early on in the game you know it'll be a test it'll be a real test for them yeah quite one other thing by the way um quite a lot of ex-Arsenal players on there Milt Smith-Rowe didn't do a huge amount in the game but big ovation people are happy to see Bert Leno um Willian as well by the way a lot of ex-Arsenal uh

on the pitch. Iwobi was good when he came on, wasn't he? Yes, Iwobi, Alex Iwobi as well. It's a nice touching photo, James, of Smith Rowe and Saka at one point in the game. I mean, it's nice to see them back, isn't it? And especially we can say this now that we've won. You know, it feels all right, but we wish them all the best, don't we?

Really? Yeah, and quite sort of painfully poetic in a way, I suppose. Emile Smith-Rowe coming off around the time Bakayasaka comes on. It sort of sums up the sliding doors fact of their career. I've got to say, I was watching Willian warm up. I've rarely seen an opposition player so popular with the home team. Everybody was chatting to him. And not many of these guys played with him in his brief spell here. But everyone wanted to talk to Willian, catch up or whatever.

you know, Oleksandr Sinchenko and he were in a big chat. Obviously, Willian Ekshaktar, I don't know if that was about life in Ukraine. But yeah, it's just interesting to see the regard in which he was held by the playing staff and the squad, which is maybe not reflected among the fan base. Ha ha ha ha!

Maybe not. And Robbie, our producer, has said, by the way, it's in the document, 61 points is the maximum points that Tottenham can get to this season. I mean, the next point for Arsenal, drop points from them, will give us a St. Tottenham's Day. That's tomorrow then. Chelsea. That may well be tomorrow. Anyway, we'll have a chat about Everton after the break. We're the back-experience!

They get a handbrake off and you can see that they are more free to play. Ian Stone, James McNicholas and Adrian Clarke here on the Athletics Arsenal podcast. Handbrake off. Monday, March 31st marked the 24-year anniversary, my God, time passes, of the passing of Rocky Roecastle.

In March 2021, to mark the 20th anniversary of his passing, the Roquastle family in Arsenal formed the Rocky 7 Project. The initiative sees Arsenal and the community work with local youngsters, providing them with one-to-one support and exposure to a wide range of experiences aimed to inspire and aid personal development. James, I mean...

I mean, yeah, he's been gone quite some time now, but he lives on in the hearts and minds of Arsenal fans, doesn't he? And people still sing his name. I saw a nice little chat between Wrighty and Bukayo Saka. So he's on The Next Generation as well. He's still around, isn't he? Yeah. And that point about The Next Generation is really important, I think. I mean...

David Roecastle, he lives on in the hearts of Arsenal fans who weren't even around when he was playing the game. And what an incredible legacy that is. Bukayo Saka, for example, he knows the significance of that number seven shirt. And he wears that responsibility with enormous pride. And yeah, it's heartening, I think, when you see at the Emirates Stadium younger fans who...

weren't even following the club during his time as a player with us singing his name. It's just great to see the affection in which he's still held and will continue to be held, even if it is also always a sad occasion when that anniversary comes around.

Quite. Adrian, I mean, you knew him, right? I mean, this doesn't really get any easier, does it, really? He was taken so young. Oh, it was cruel. Yeah, it was really cruel. I mean, he never wanted to leave Arsenal in the first place. I know that. I think it really hurt him when Arsenal decided to sell him. But yeah, no, he's just supremely popular in the dressing room, a real big character. But yeah, I grew up watching him in the West End lower ranks.

And then, you know, some amazing performances. I was a winger, obviously, so, you know, I was always looking at him. I loved the step over that he used to do and go on the outside. There's so many echoes really with Sakharan Rokas actually, you know, scary. So, you know, the right player is wearing that number seven shirt.

But yeah, no, I think it's absolutely fantastic that Arsenal as a club and the fan base will never allow David Roedkaas to be forgotten. You know, he is a massive part of the club's folklore. And, you know, in 20, 30 years time, I'd love to think that we're still doing this. Quite. Everton away Saturday, 12th of May, which is sort of a...

It's a warm-up game, isn't it, really, ever so in a way? I mean, we want to win it. Of course we do. Goodison Park, not a great place for us to visit. Fans are being asked to stand up in the ninth minute and sing Super Kevin Campbell, and that will be some moment, I imagine, James. You know, the two main clubs, really, that Kev Campbell played for for most of his career. And, of course, Adrian, you did the...

the podcast on Monday when you were talking to all those ex-players about what Kev Campbell meant to us another ex-Arsenal taken far too soon I think it's going to be quite emotional isn't it at Goodison on Saturday?

Yeah, he made his debut, funnily enough, for Arsenal at Goodison Park. So, you know, that was fitting when you think back at that. I think, you know, he was a teenager at the time. Yeah, look, if anyone hasn't listened to Monday's pod, you know, do check it out because, you know, Alan Smith, Lee Dixon, Paul Davis and Andy Cole, they spoke so warmly.

about Kev alongside myself and Amy and yeah it was a joy to sit around the table with them I've got to say and I want to thank everybody that's been in touch because so many people have been in touch since that came out to say you know how much they enjoyed it and and how nice it was to listen to so thanks for everyone to for doing that yeah and they also spoke about Arteta's Arsenal as well so plenty of their sort of current interest as well

give it a listen James will you be there on Saturday by the way will you be at that game no I won't be I'm not going up to Goodison I'll be watching from home but yeah it will be an emotional moment in an emotional week as for the game itself listen I want Arsenal to win every game don't get me wrong the result is always paramount but right now I am thinking please no more injuries that's where I am

That's where I am. I know. Yeah. Who do you wrap in cotton wool then, James? Come on. All of them. All of them. No, come on. Every single one. No chance. Do you know what? The goalkeeper, for one. Absolutely the goalkeeper. Any defenders that are left. He'll play, David Raya. I mean, the one that you could debate is maybe would be Saliba if we had alternatives. You know, if Gabriel is out, you're...

you might say protects Lieber, but we don't have anyone else. We've lost four players from the defensive line. And actually, in terms of wrapping people in cotton wool, it might be that they look at someone like Jurien Timber and say, if there's any doubt, sit him down. Because...

We've got Vinicius Junior on that flank on Tuesday night. Timber won't play. Timber won't play. What about Thomas Partey? I mean, Jorginho could come in. Thomas Partey might have to play right back, unfortunately, because it depends, doesn't it, who's fit and available. If Ben White's fit, I think he should play and get minutes to see whether he's ready. I don't think Mikel will really.

rotate that heavily I would leave out Rice I'd give him the day off because I think he's such an important player in that game because we've got Zinni or Jorginho who can come into that maybe the pair of them actually can come into that team for Partey and Rice Jorginho and Zinchenko but outside of that what else can we do really I mean

it's a tough game. Everything's a really tough game and you don't want to be losing. You want to be getting a result there, in my opinion. So I think the team that kind of almost finished that, that game, Bayern, Saka maybe, might, might be the one that starts. Yeah. Yeah. It's a bit of a fingers crossed, isn't it? Really? The whole thing really, just hopefully they'll somehow get away with a win and, and everyone's fit and ready to go for Real Madrid next week. Yeah.

we've got Real Madrid next week by the way I think it's worth just taking that in I know how excited you are James and we'll definitely get more excited after Everton but you know

I've said this before on this podcast. Let's take a moment. We've got Real Madrid in the quarterfinals of the Champions League. This is the second year running, by the way. We've been in the quarterfinals of the Champions League. I do feel like there's progress. And by the way, also with the injuries, we've had so many this year. It's been an absolute bastard this year for injuries. And I know people say I was an excuse, but...

God, we've lost a huge amount of players. And Mikel actually said, didn't he? He said, the good thing is that it's been like this all season. You see Martinelli today. We miss him three months. Bukayo, four months. Kai, four months. Gabriel Jesus, almost the whole season. We haven't even talked about Tomiyasu. We've lost a lot of players. So, yeah, hopefully they'll be in some reasonable place, the rest of them, to start against Real Madrid next week. Let's have a song.

To finish Adrian...

Yeah. There's a song out at the moment. I think it's out at the moment. It's on all the sort of hits playlists. I really like it. My eight-year-old daughter really likes this song. She started playing it and it kind of sums up how we're all going to feel on Saturday, watching that game, hoping for no injuries. It sums up how we maybe felt in the last bit of injury time last night. It's called Anxiety. I know you heard the song by Doichi. I don't know if I pronounced that right. It's a really good song.

I like a lot of songs that are out at the moment as it happens, but yeah, Anxiety by Doichi. Yeah, it kind of sums up how we're probably going to feel in regards to people being fit for next Tuesday. Quite. James, what about you?

I went with the theme of dreams and dreamy. It was the dream comeback for Bukayo Saka and it's got us all dreaming maybe of what might happen against Madrid in a week's time. So I went for Dream On by Aerosmith, a song I really, really love. Sing with me, sing for me.

Well, I was watching Bekoa's second warm-up and the love and respect

that everyone has for him and I've been listening to the Kinks quite a lot and a song called A Well Respected Man which I've just been playing to death over the last few days and Bukayo's definitely a well respected man and can't wait to see him starting regularly for the Arsenal That's it

for this edition of Handbrake Off. Thanks to Adrian, thanks to James and thanks to Robbie, our producer. And we'll speak to you after Everton and before Madrid. See you.