Solutions without Havertz & expectations for rest of season
58:08 Share

If your football team had one option in their playbook, their results probably wouldn't be great.

The same could be said for your investments. SIBO index options like SPX and XSP can help expand your investing strategies with cash settlement and potential tax advantages. If you're ready for a more dynamic game plan, head to betterwithoptions.com. SIBO. Life is better with options. Your investments could be too. There are risks associated with SIBO company products. Review the disclosures and disclaimers at SIBO.com slash US underscore disclaimers.

You know what's smart? Enjoying a fresh gourmet meal at home that you didn't have to cook. Meet Factor, your loophole in the laws of mealtime. Chef-crafted meals delivered with a tap, ready in just two minutes. You know what's even smarter? Treating yourself without cheating your goals. Factor is dietician-approved, chef-prepared, and you-plated. Pretty smart, huh? Refresh your routine and eat smart with Factor. Learn more at factormeals.com.

This episode is brought to you by Allstate. Some people just know they could save hundreds on car insurance by checking Allstate first. Like you know to check the date of the big game first,

The Athletic FC Podcast Network. The only way to score is, of course, to play with a hand break off.

Hello, I'm Ian Stone. This is Handbrake Off, the Arsenal podcast brought to you by The Athletic. Arsenal have returned from their warm weather training camp in Dubai and are preparing for their Premier League return against Leicester City on Saturday early afternoon. To look ahead to that game, I'm joined by Arda Roche and James McNicholas. Good morning. Good morning. Morning, Ian. Morning. Now...

As most of you would have heard by now, if you haven't heard and you're tuning in, we've got some bad news to be honest with you. Kai Havertz confirmed out for the rest of the season following a hamstring tear during training in Dubai.

I did actually do a post on Blue Sky yesterday saying I've never hated hamstrings more in my life and then I wondered what my non-football followers would think of that and go what is he on about right but anyway my question who's available who is available who can put a shift in for the Arsenal I've done I've done with Groin I should say that playing the Jewish football game so you know I'm a free agent I'm

Pretty certain nobody's after me. But anyone else out there? James, anyone? Any left field solutions? No, he's shaking his head. No, no. No, I was thinking maybe James Tarkovsky, if he's available, come down. What a finisher. Tell him I finished last night. What a finisher. My God. And wasn't that just...

why we love football, right? Oh, I know you were out, right? Yeah. I know you were out. I was out playing football. You know what? Fair enough. That's a perfectly fine excuse. But football, I mean, like I say,

The madness of it, James. It's insane, isn't it? Sometimes. We've all lost our minds at football and there were 40,000 Evertonians and also Arnie Sloan as well who completely lost it. It was a great moment, wasn't it? It was. Nice to see another club in trouble with referees for once. I enjoyed that aspect of it too. But yeah, such a good finish. He'll do. He'll do. But yeah, playing through the middle. Big man up top.

Back to basics. I'm here for it. Have you heard him talk, by the way? It's the son of Sean Dyche. Really? Oh, yeah. Yeah, he's got that voice. He's got a similar voice. It's absolutely magnificent. We were listening to him being interviewed after the game, reveling in it. Just going, that's outstanding. What about you? Anyone...

Anyone available? Gunnosaurus? Well, I've set up a few chances, a few big chances at the Emirates before. Have you? You've got used to playing in big game conditions. Yeah, so that was last summer, I think. The chances weren't put away. I wouldn't say by who. I wouldn't worry about that. I wouldn't worry about that. You're making them. Yeah, yeah. But I've got two games today after playing yesterday, so we'll see how my hamstrings hold up by the end of the day. Oh.

I just can't believe that art is being overplayed as well. This is such an Arsenal thing, isn't it? We're doing it to all our talent, aren't we? What are we doing? Is there not someone who can come in for the second game? The reason we're doing this, of course, yeah, I haven't got any suggestions. Of course I haven't. We've got three forwards. That's what we're going to have to deal with.

until, you know, Bukayo and Gabriel Martinelli come back. We are talking about this because Arsenal returned from the training in Dubai, the mythical warm weather training camp where everything was meant to be fixed and we were going to come back all serene and lovely and happy and fit. Kai Havertz out for the season with a hamstring tear. The third one, by the way, the third one, James, you'd imagine the club will be looking at this and going, hang on a minute. Obviously, there's a certain maybe overplaying there.

But is there something else as well if they're doing this? Three big hamstring injuries, Bukayo Saka. Well, from what we hear, practically tore his off the bone. It's more of a strain for Gabriel Martinelli and then a bad tear for Kai Havertz. I'm sure they will be looking at it and they've got a performance team there who will be examining this really closely. It's such a difficult thing to pin down though, isn't it? I mean,

Arsenal have been a bit unlucky with injuries, but is there more they could have done at their end to control it without us being there and on the ground? It's difficult to say.

Do you know, it is difficult to say, although I have to say that I did go to Pilates yesterday. When I put my little thing up on Blue Sky about hamstring tears, my Pilates teacher actually said to me, don't blame the hamstring, all right? It's nothing to do with the hamstrings. It's the people using the hamstrings and the way they're using the hamstrings. So are you prescribing more Pilates, basically? Well, I...

I absolutely am. But you have to be committed, all right? And it's whether the boys really commit is my point. This has veered off slightly from where I was expecting it to. I absolutely think it would help. But it's not like they don't know about this stuff. Of course they do. But when you get three, and the injuries that we have suffered, and muscle injuries as well. If you get knocks, if you get bumps and bruises, you get it. But muscle injuries...

Are they playing with too much intensity? Go on, James, you want to say something? No, I was just going to say, isn't this just a constant? Don't the injuries kind of precipitate further injuries? You know, isn't this something that's been coming because we've had such a...

a weakened attack. We've been forced to play these players again and again and again. And in fact, when Gabriel Martinelli got injured, and I think I said this elsewhere, my only surprise was that it wasn't Kai Havertz. Because Havertz, I saw Havertz, you know, at Wolves, at Newcastle, looking like a...

a broken man and for everything Arteta said about his fitness his durability there is really only so far you can push that and so I don't think you'll find a single Arsenal fan who's surprised that Kai Havertz has picked up an injury I mean we've we have run him into the ground

Yeah, and what, of course, what it does, Art, is it leaves us with three recognised attackers, basically. Ando Trossard, a man, by the way, who was bought as an alternative to someone we were originally going for. Raheem Sterling, who, well, legs look like they might be gone, but we'll see. And a 17-year-old. I mean, that is what we've got, Art. It...

Of the club, basically, I'm not going to say failed us because you know what? They do their thing and we come and support them, but it's going to make the rest of the season very hard. And is this a failure to act properly in the summer and then in the January transfer window? Yeah, I think, I'm not sure if I'd go as far as saying failure, but when you look at everyone's thoughts from the summer, I think...

Pakaio Osaka kind of deputy was on a lot of people's lists. I know we've spoken about how if someone like that came in, maybe the transfer Ethan Monieri wouldn't have come. But still, I think that was an area where you see maybe you take Pakaio Osaka's fitness over the past

five years for granted. You take Kai Havertz fitness over the past two seasons for granted as well. And this is what happens. You look at the workload of those players, not just in terms of what they contribute in attack, but

when Mikel Arteta was talking about Havertz the other week he was talking about the runs he makes to zone six which is like the right back kind of position and he's doing that pretty much every game that's what he meant by zone six because I was looking at train stations yeah

Dan, what are you talking about? Amersham? Chesham? I think that might be further out, actually. Zone six, right? The right back position. Essentially the opposite. Yeah. No, it's all right. I can work it out. Yeah. So he's making basically very, very long distance runs. Yeah. Relatively on a football pitch. Right. Okay. Yeah. So I think probably a bit more care in terms of planning who can come in and give these guys a break because it's

I mean, Havertz came on in League Cup games against Bolton, Preston, came on away to Girona as well, I believe, where he was supposed to have a rest.

So it's just a lot for these guys to kind of push through. And I think we've even seen it now at right back where you have Jurgen Timber, his first season back from an ACL, and I think he's Arsenal's maybe fifth or sixth most used player this season. Yeah. Yeah. And you wouldn't have done that in normal circumstances. No. You would have. Yeah. But if Ben White picks up an injury. Yeah. James...

We do have, apparently, is it right, the third worst injury record? I was reading Brighton and then Tottenham and then us. I mean, these things are difficult, aren't they, James? Because it depends. We've had cluster injuries. Amy has talked about this earlier.

on this podcast, we've had injuries in very similar positions. We've had, you know, we've lost all our right backs for a while. We've lost most of our forwards for a while. We do seem to have been hit pretty hard, but other teams cope as well, don't they? And it's not like we're not coping to a certain extent. Yeah, I think we are coping pretty well, considering. When you look at

I think Spurs have had terrible injuries, right? And Arsenal fans probably won't thank me for pointing it out, but they've had big cluster problems at the back. But look how it's affected their season. They're sat in 14th and quite right, we might all say. But I think it's had a huge impact. The fact that Arsenal are second in the table, seven points off Liverpool, qualified for the next round of the Champions League,

Look, I'm not trying to, you know, force the Kool-Aid down anyone's throat here, but I think Mikel Arteta and his staff have done a pretty decent job with the options at their disposal. I think the trouble is we've all kind of been thinking, well, if we can just get through this bit, if we can just get through, get a few players back, then, you know, there could be this kind of glorious finale. And I think,

I think what's happened with Martinelli and then with Kai Havertz and obviously not signing anybody in January has made that much more difficult for people to believe. I mean, all right. So...

Mikel Arteta and the staff and the players available have done an amazing job. The ownership, what about the part that Edu might have played? Do you think there's something in that art that maybe communication was not quite as good as it could have been and then he goes and I'm not blaming the new guys, Jason Aito, I'm not blaming him but I'm just saying that there's been a slight

in communication. It's obvious that we wanted a forward last summer. You know, we went for Benjamin Sesko. It was very public and then it didn't happen. But you think, OK, are we then going another season without a striker, without a main backup striker, if you like, or a main striker and Kai Havertz can be repurposed again. It seems a little muddled, the thinking.

Yeah, I think the main thing looking from our perspective is probably wanting Arsenal to act more proactively rather than reactively, which is something I think they've probably done in quite a lot of windows. When you look back to the summer, it was, okay, a sale kind of facilitates a buy, whereas I'm not sure...

a lot of football fans would want that to be the way things work. So when you look at this season as a whole, I think you probably, the reflection you do have is, okay, if Arsenal were a bit more front footed in what they wanted to do in both windows, the season probably could have looked a lot different. And I think that'll be a regret a lot of fans have, whether it's something the club themselves feel as well. I'm not sure.

No, and we'll get on to what our expectations for the season will be in a second. I mean, you know, good news, we've got six left backs. That's a relief, isn't it? I think however bad the injury crisis gets at left back, hopefully we'll be covered. I think everyone can rejoice, I think. I was looking at the injury list, actually. This is from Harris on Blue Sky.

at AFCMHR. I mean, Tommy, he's going in for an operation, isn't he? James, is that right?

I think it's yet to be decided, but there's potential that he could be going in for another operation. He's not expected really to have much chance of being competitive this season at this point in time. I'm sad about Tommy. I'm really sad about him. I think he's such an excellent defender. And there was certainly a period when you thought, oh yeah, he's going to be playing for the Arsenal for 10 years because he can play across the back. Tierney, Mourinho, Odegaard for two months, Kiernan,

Ricardo Calafiori, Durian Timber for a three-week recovery for a hamstring. Ben White, who's expected back quickly. Lewis Skelly had a knock. Bukayo Saka, we obviously talked about. Ethan Waineri had a hamstring injury. Gabriel Jesus, ACL, and Martinelli and Havertz, hamstring injury.

Yeah, sorry, it just depressed me reading that, to be honest with you. I mean, all right, let's talk about then. I mean, we could continue slagging off the management and the ownership for not doing something, but we are in the position we're in. It's Thursday the 13th of February. We've got the squad we got. Assuming there are no free agents knocking about,

who we might be able to... Oh, you shook your head there. Have you looked? Have you looked? A few of us have looked. Have you? Yeah, yeah. You've all been on the search, right? Just so you can phone up the club and go, I've got one. Adiak Nfenwa. He does his talk sport gig, but he's still knocking them out. You've looked? Yeah, the names aren't great. No one? All right. All right. Lucas Perez. Lucas Perez.

Yeah, I mean, I did see Carlos Meier mentioned as well. It's basically ex-Arsenal strikers. I saw Sonoga as well. Stop it. I did, genuinely, genuinely. No, I believe you. I'm just saying, stop it. Is Lord Bentner still knocking him out? No, I didn't see him there. I'm sure he would think that he was available, that he was capable of doing it. Come see Arsenal! Come see Arsenal! Come see Arsenal!

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop. With Mint, you can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments, but that's weird. Okay, one judgment. Anyway, give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of $45 for three-month plan, equivalent to $15 per month required. Intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See full terms at mintmobile.com.

This episode is brought to you by LifeLock. During tax season, your personal info travels to a lot of places, between payroll, your tax consultant, and the IRS. If your W-2 gets exposed, that's just the ticket for identity thieves. That's why LifeLock monitors millions of data points every second. If your identity is stolen, they'll fix it guaranteed or your money back. Don't let identity thieves take you for a ride. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit LifeLock.com slash podcast. Terms apply.

Expectations. This is going to be grim as well, isn't it? James, has the news changed your expectations? I know that you thought that we might come up a bit short in the league and the Champions League might be the best option for us. And, you know, maybe, I mean, I'm sure that still holds, even though we are only actually seven points behind Liverpool. Well, I had been saying that if Liverpool won at Goodison Park,

you know, I considered it over. Now, obviously Liverpool didn't win. So I assume Arsenal will be champions. The logic follows through, right? Entirely, entirely. Right. Okay. I mean, expectations. I mean, I do think as bad as this feels now, and we do have a really tricky period to navigate, um,

When have we not had a tricky period to navigate? Yeah, it'd be nice to have one of those, wouldn't it? Yeah, just breeze through six weeks. I think that in about a month's time, you know, we'll be in a position where we'll be within a week or two, hopefully, of having Gabriel Martinelli and Bakayosaka back available again. Now, who knows what version of those players we get and how ready they are to contribute.

But that will make... That is the light at the end of the tunnel for Arsenal. Like, even without a centre-forward, I think that those two make us...

infinitely more dangerous team so that's what I'm clinging on to like that's my little silver lining is that as bleak as it looks right now those two are around the corner readying themselves for a return and I think with them back even without Kai Havertz we can have a

a functioning dangerous attack. But I know that feels a long way away right now and the damage that could be done to our season in that intervening period, I accept is considerable.

Is there a case, Art, for leaving Leo Trossard out for a couple of weeks just to really wind him up for the rest of the season, right? So just until the end of February and then go, go on then. And then he's sent it forward for three months and you know he's a finisher. We know he's a finisher. I mean, we have said on this podcast that he's the best finisher at the club. By the way, I am joking. Yeah, yeah. I was...

I just wasn't expecting you to go there. No, all right. All right. So, all right. So James thinks, you know, with Liverpool drawing that we're going to win the title and then the Champions League, well, we'll see how that goes. What about you, Art? Where are you after? Because I was pretty depressed yesterday, I've got to be honest with you.

So I didn't realise Liverpool drew until maybe like two hours after the game. Right. Because the last I'd seen... How late were you playing football, by the way? That's a late game. Well, we had Nando's after. Oh, yeah, okay. Fair enough. It was 2-1 the last time I checked. And then the first thing I saw was that Decore mad this. I was like, wait, why was he celebrating?

Oh, they equalised. Yeah, yeah, yeah. To be fair, yeah, my hopes aren't that high for a Premier League right now. James kind of brought me back up a little bit, I think. Just now. Here we go, here we go. Yeah, yeah. But also, I'm not sure if you guys have seen that, obviously Sterling can't play against Chelsea in a few weeks. That's a great point.

Well, I hadn't seen that. Had you seen that, James? I hadn't thought about that. Oh my God, Sterling can't play against Chelsea. I mean, there will be fans who say that is a plus, all right? But right now we have to get all hands to the pump, really. I've seen some people walking up some back five lineups. Yeah, a lot of that around. So yeah, I think Leicester should be okay. West Ham,

Should be okay. When you get to Forest in midweek. And that's a Wednesday, I think. Yeah, man. I'm just going to take it week by week because I can't stress myself too much thinking too far into the future. Okay. All right. So we don't want to talk about the Champions League then because, I mean, our first game back will be...

hopefully one of Martinelli and Saka are back by the time we get back in the Champions League. And we do have, I mean, if we go back to the start of, I don't know, whatever it was, the last few seasons, we have two of the most exciting wide players in the world playing for us. Yeah, I think that might come too soon for them, to be honest. I think we've got to get through that first Champions League knockout probably with what we've got currently. How does that make you feel? I...

How does it make me feel? It's sad, if I'm honest with you. It makes me feel sad. That was the main feeling I had. There was obviously the anger because you go, why didn't you buy anyone? But obviously there wasn't a single striker available on earth who could possibly improve our team and was the right fit and the right temperament and all the rest of it. So we had what we had. And there was a certain inevitability about Kai Havertz, as you said, James, getting injured.

So there was a bit of anger yesterday, but my overall feeling is sadness because these boys, I have to say that, you know, how well they've done considering all the injuries they've got, how they've kept themselves in a place where they can challenge. And this is a cruel blow. This is a cruel blow. And yeah, obviously we overplayed Kai Havertz and you say you could see it coming.

But sadness was my overall feeling. But you know what? It's football. And come Saturday, if we get a last-minute winner at quarter-past two against Leicester, hopefully it doesn't come to that. Yeah, I was going to say. No, but I'm just saying I will have those safe feelings of joy that I would always have because, you know, hey, it's the journey, right? And who knows with this team, with the battling qualities of this team?

They've shown they can overcome so much adversity. They lost their captain. They've lost now four of their seven forwards, one of whom was not expected to come in and be a regular forward. You know, they've lost a lot. They've lost their regular right back for three months. And my God, am I looking forward to his sunny disposition coming back in the dressing room. That will help, no doubt. So, all right, you're taking it game by game. James, we're going to win the title, maybe the Champions League. I get that. LAUGHTER

We're holding you to it, James. My expectations for the rest of the season, just football is my expectation. Just football. I mean, it's football, isn't it? And I'm glad we watch it. And when we watched that Everton-Liverpool game last night and the absolute unhinged madness of it, I just want a bit of that. That's what I want. And if we can get that on May the 31st or June the 1st, I'll absolutely take it, all right? Whenever it is. Champions League final, just in case you're wondering. And in terms of the summer...

Right, because we're talking about the rest of the season. The rest of the season and then the summer. James, I mean, two strikers, midfield player, right? Maybe another left back just for, you know, safety. But two strikers and a midfield player and an attacking midfield player, by the way. That's what we're looking for, isn't it? Something like that?

Yeah, I mean, I only know of them actively looking for one, but I'd be with you. I'd like another. I'd like a central forward and a wide player. Yes. I think they'll have to do that, really, because I can't see Raheem Sterling staying. I can't see Rhys Nelson being reintegrated. Yeah, I'd like to see that. And what else will they do? I mean, a holding midfielder, we know they'll do. I'd like to see a more creative midfield player, but...

Zubi Mendy looks like a prospect. There's no getting away from it. He's an outstanding footballer. I've seen bits of him. He is, but he's at the base of the midfield, isn't he? Well, we're going to have to replace one of Jorginho and Partey, aren't we? Absolutely. They're not going to stay, but they're going to have to do some serious business. And we are talking, you know, edging towards a quarter of a billion pounds. I know it's insane.

but that is what it will take to build the squad to the level that we want and to show the players who we're going to keep there. I'm talking about William Saliba, right, who will certainly be looking at Madrid, especially after the way they played the other day against Man City. They're amazing to watch, by the way. I just, I do love watching them. The devil with which they play. I'd like us to do a bit more of that. But,

Yeah, we say to William Saliba and anyone else who's getting itchy feet, going, look, this is who we brought in. This is who we brought in. It's as much about showing them what we can do as showing the fans, isn't it, really? Yeah, 100%. I think when you look at January, even Declan Rice after the Tottenham game was kind of speaking, wanting something to happen in the market. And when you look at Saliba's...

contract situation 2027 sorry my voice when you look at this he's been overworked hasn't he that's the thing that's the thing James he's been overworked overplayed on the podcast you know we should have rotated more than we did Ian I could see this coming yeah

Yeah, sorry. Oh, God, you were making a point. I'm sorry. When you look at his contract situation, I know when he signed it, a lot of people raised eyebrows. But if you look at it from a professional standpoint, I don't have any issues with it. You have to respect it because he's kind of

With doing that, you hold the club to account. You keep them honest. Do your job. Do your job. Exactly. So I have no problem with Saliba kind of negotiating that contract for himself.

because it kind of puts the onus on Arsenal to make those steps forward, which they have to do to keep them. Yeah, basically, you know, a centre forward, I mean, I would like them to go to say a Newcastle, if they don't get in the Champions League, is 140 million quid.

We want Alexander Isak and you, Alexander, are the final piece of the jigsaw, except we will spend some more money on other players as well. But this is what I mean about a quarter of a billion pounds. It's obviously an insane amount of money, but I think in order to get the sort of forward we want, we're looking at three, you know, a hundred million or so. And then you've got to spend more than that because this is quite a small squad. Um,

James, do you think that the fans will be satisfied by the club? Do you think the Cronkers have the same ambitions? I mean, I sort of felt for a while they did, but these last two transfer windows have shaken my faith somewhat. Yeah, I think that's a pretty widespread feeling. And actually, I think a lot of Arsenal fans probably feel like they don't want to hear about the summer right now. I think it's like sort of jam tomorrow, isn't it? And I think they...

I think there's so much frustration at the situation we're currently in that people almost aren't prepared to sort of look beyond this season. And I understand that. I do understand that. There's nothing we can do about the situation we're currently in aside from get players fit and just hope for the best. I mean, that's it. But I think what James is saying is people don't want to hear about if, buts and maybes.

Because it just becomes frustrating. You know what? Okay, that is a fair point. But okay, well, let's see how we get on against Leicester at the weekend. Yeah. Let's see. And listen, I think Arsenal are a really good team and they're really well coached. And Mikel Arteta is really...

smart and good at figuring out a system that can maximise what he can get from his players. And they have withstood a lot this season. And my bet is that they will probably do all right. Like I'm not, you know, in seriousness, I'm not saying, oh, we're going to win the league. But I think we will remain competitive even with these restrictions. It's just the sort of frustration and disappointment of perhaps what might have been and that feeling that our potential has been kind of

And I would love to know what the conversation is internally. At this point, I don't know. But at the end of the window, they had real conviction about the decisions that they made and they clearly felt that they had to. Yeah. And they felt that they'd made a strategic choice, right? That they had weighed all the outcomes and that they felt this was the right thing to do for the club. It's a gamble though, isn't it? It is. And of those potential outcomes...

I'd say they're in the bottom few percent, aren't they, already? In that respect, they have probably been unfortunate. But I wonder now, what is their feeling? Is it one of regret? Is it one of, this is still the right thing, but this is a very painful route to have to go through? I don't know. In a way, I hope they still think it was the right thing.

because that's what you want from the decision makers, that there is actually a plan and they believe that in the long term this will be beneficial. Right now, for us on the outside, it's hard to see that. Yeah, I mean, I've heard people say they feel cheated and I sort of feel like that's quite strong language really, but then I'm talking about failure as well. So I guess there's something in it. And, you know, as fans, we pay our money,

And, you know, you commit, don't you? You commit to the whole thing. We'll see, won't we? Leicester away on Saturday morning. And we'll talk about that in a moment. Before we head to the break, I just want to tell you about Connections Sports Edition, a new game for sports fans from The Athletic.

It is basically a daily dose of trivia and so satisfying to solve. Is it not? You've done them, haven't you? Yeah, I completed it this morning. There you go. He's completed it. There must be new ones. Anyway, he's done a few puzzles and he's hooked. Are you hooked? Well, I already was.

I already was, but this is now the sports version. And luckily I got them all right because they're all kind of US themed. But me as a Londoner still was able to fly through flying colours. Congratulations. Play now at theathletic.com forward slash connections. Ian Stone, Art de Rocher and James McNicholas here on the Athletics Arsenal podcast hand break off. We're the Pakistanians!

They get a hand-wreck off and you can see that they are more free to play. Looking forward to Leicester away. Lunchtime kick-off on Saturday. Got very good memories of this fixture. Aaron Ramsdale's save, particularly that one. I think that might have been a Saturday morning as well because I sort of watched it live.

We beat them 4-2 in a reverse fixture in September. They actually equalised, didn't they? And then, is that the game where Ethan Wanaire basically came on and just basically just lifted everyone? Yeah, honestly, I don't think I'll ever forget that. He didn't even score, but his first touch, he just kind of cut, cut.

Cut through midfield, went past a few players, shot from outside the box, trying to do that finish that everyone's become so accustomed to. That we've seen now, haven't we? And I just remember the energy in the stadium completely changed in that moment. And he also had a moment that led to the fourth goal, like a tackle on halfway, which led to a throw-in. So very good evening, or I should say afternoon in the end of the day. Yeah.

James, I mean, we should beat Leicester, shouldn't we? You know, forward line, depleted forward line, notwithstanding, we should have too much talent. This is a team that have lost four of their last five games. The only way that the only one they won was at Spurs. And, you know, let Tottenham get battered everywhere they go. So, you know, we should beat them, shouldn't we? We absolutely should. Yeah. And...

Actually quite nice to come up against Ruud van Nistelrooy. We owe him one for a few things down the years. Do we? Yeah, go on. I hope we can really make an impression with this game. The sort of managerial equivalent of leaving one on him. I like those feelings. I think those feelings should be encouraged, especially when it comes to Ruud van Nistelrooy. Yeah, but I do think Arsenal...

Michael Arteta's job, and I'm really intrigued to see his press conference on Friday because he has got a big job on now. He's got to not only come out and presumably sort of bat for the club in terms of like defending the decisions that were made and the strategic choices and the training that was done in Dubai and all of these things.

He's also got to pick up from the floor a fan base and presumably a group of players who are feeling really downhearted right now. And it's going to have to be the press conference of his life. I mean, probably apart from the press conference he gave when he first got the managerial job and he had to walk in there and own that room and be credible. I'd argue this is as big a press conference as he's had.

Because he's got to somehow make sure the next few months of the season aren't just a non-event. So...

Yeah, bring it on. I'm looking forward to see what he says. Do you know what? I'm excited now as well, aren't you? After hearing that, I genuinely am thinking, I can't wait for this press conference because he's going to be pumped, isn't he? He is definitely going to be pumped because, as you say, he's got to make it sound like we're on course. Yeah, so I'll be there and I was thinking... You're going to be there, Art. Yeah. This could be one of those where were you when it happened moments. I was thinking kind of like... Two rows back.

I was like, what kind of mood is he going to be? And that's kind of always my thought going up there. It's like, what kind of Mikel are we going to get today? Defiant, I would imagine. Defiant. Yeah. I couldn't quite figure it out until James just kind of laid it all out there for us. So, yeah. Yeah. I'd assume he'd go quite big. And one of the press conferences that stuck out was around Nugent.

Norwich. I don't know if you guys remember when his job was kind of teetering. Three losses at the start of the 21-22 season. And he was quite, again, defiant that day. Yeah.

So you'd hope he's maybe similar and it has a similar effect because we all know what happened from that point onwards. He does back himself. I mean, one has to say, and obviously he's been like that since he turned up at the club, since he went for the interview and they went, wow. And they wanted to hire him, didn't they? When they hired Unai Emery, but they just thought, this is just, we can't. Obviously we're watching that interview and we're watching his presentation thinking this guy's a genius. So obviously he's always backed himself and I don't think that will change.

but it will be, it will be fascinating. I think, uh, yeah, we'll be watching. Art will be there. Sorry, there's other things about the game. How would we line up? Well, can you walk? You're in, you're in. Uh, I'm actually quite interested to see Trossard as a, just a lone number nine for the first time in a couple of years. I don't remember. It's on you, mate. It's on you, mate. Go on then. I remember, um, I think James was at the game at Leicester. Um,

where he played as a nine and he he scored a goal that was ruled out for Ben White messing around with the goalkeeper yeah great finish but then he also set up Martinelli for the one nil goal which won it and I felt like in the past couple of years we haven't seen him play there enough because I think he can do a lot of good there by himself but

We'll probably see that again now. He's got the arrogance to play there, I believe. And like you say, it's going to happen, I would have thought. We've got a few listener questions. What do you think of Merce's comments about going for Harry Kane in the summer? I mean, high quality player. I don't... He's outstanding, but would he fit into the team if they looked at him...

That doesn't sound like a bad idea to me. I understand the Tottenham thing, but I don't care at this point. He's coming from Bayern Munich anyway. What are your thoughts? I've not seen the clip, so I don't know how tongue-in-cheek Mercer's being. I like it because of how much it would upset Spurs fans. On that level, I like it. Do you think we should unveil him from behind a curtain like we did with Sol? It would be funny. There's certainly no... And, you know...

If we get a penalty at the Emirates, we know he's scoring it. He's done it many times before. That's true. Just imagine you're a Tottenham player, mate. That said, I think we want to be looking more to the future than a Harry Kane. So you're saying next season instead of this season? No, I'm joking. Look, if we get him in now until May, I'd do that. Yes, yes.

Thanks, James. Alfie said, should we just focus on winning the Champions League this season? I mean, it's ridiculous that we're actually asking a question like that. And I think people should at least take a moment when I've said that question to go, oh, yeah, maybe we'll just focus on winning the Champions League this season. Can we not? People have to understand how far we've come. And I think it's worth taking a moment to do that. What do you think, Art?

Yeah, so I was actually watching the Real Madrid City game and at one point I was just wondering who would I rather go through in this game? City or Madrid? Yeah, obviously Arsenal wouldn't play them in the round of 16 but maybe further along the line and it got to a point where City were winning and I was like, wait, Arsenal actually play alright against City now so I don't know if I'd rather them go through but anyway, I think see you get in the round of 16.

when you get to the quarters, if you get to the quarters, then you can think about the Champions League. I'm not, I'm not doing this three putt or legs in one basket thing yet. That's not for me. Good answer. And I would agree. Becca also asked as well, talking about Mikel's struggle to rotate optimally. Wow. How many players we got? Martin asks, James, what do you think the return of Ben White will mean for the team? Will he bring out the best in Martin Erdegaard is what he says. Well,

I think we've missed Ben White more than we can possibly imagine. I think Urien Timber's done an outstanding job and I love him and I love how solid he is. But Ben White offers you something different in an attacking phase and there was a period...

James, when Ben White and Martin Oedegaarden and Bukayo Saka were operating in tandem and we looked so dangerous down that right side. Yeah, that's true and I think it could be quite exciting to see him potentially combining with Ethan Raniere. There's a natural balance there. One

right foot wants to go on the outside and one of left foot who's going to go inside. That could be a nice partnership. It is amazing. I wrote an article this morning and I'd say about 50% of the comments from our readers are people proposing a back three or a switch to a wing back system.

and I don't know how realistic that is, but I know that Ben White enables you to do that very easily. I mean, you know, a trio of White, Saliba and Gabriel is really strong. And you could put, you could field Timber outside him, or you switch Timber into centre-back and play White as a wing-back. You've got Calafuri, you've got Lewis Skelly, who all help you potentially make that system work. So,

It does give Michael Arteta options. It also just makes me a little bit, there's still a grain of frustration in me when I think, we spoke about Tommy Asu's absence earlier. Look how well the back half of the squad is constructed, that we've been able to withstand the absence of Tommy Asu and White. And frankly, at times, you know, not noticeably, you know, we've managed it so well. And you compare it to the other half of the pitch and the degree of depth is so different.

Yeah. Nishant asked, do we need another creative midfielder? I mean, I've said before, I think we do really. I think,

I think the pressure has to be taken off Martin Odegaard a bit. Yeah, 100%. Obviously, when everyone's back fit, probably looking towards the next season, I think Ethan Waniere probably contributes as one of those. But then you look further into the depth of the squad. If you want to go far in the Champions League again, you probably need another one. And yeah, I'd like someone who unlocks things a bit more than just say Declan Rice as an eight. I'd like someone...

who's a bit more intricate, should we say. Yeah, less get up and downy. Although they can do that as well. Pass and move. More pass and move, yeah. And we all understand exactly what you mean. James Paolo says, do we need to change our approach tactically when it comes to cup games? I mean, surely every game, really? Yeah, I mean, I suppose they're...

implying Arteta's knockout record is maybe not the best. And I think there's some validity to that claim. Since that FA Cup win in 2020, particularly in domestic cups, he's not really got to the latter stages as often as we might expect.

Even in European knockout ties, there have been some question marks. I think there are sort of explanations for a lot of those exits up until this point. I mean, even last year, it was kind of our first year back in the Champions League and there's a learning curve for player and manager alike. I am really intrigued to see how we get on this year. And I think the draw...

will be a big part of that. It's sort of mad, these Champions League games that are going on at the moment and yet we're not involved. It feels quite odd to me as a fan. I feel sort of like, are we out? I thought we were in it. What's going on? But yeah, I've got one eye on it and I'm looking forward to seeing who we face in the next round. God, yes. The Wiggler, love the pod. Thank you, The Wiggler. He or she says, do you feel Martinelli is getting close to a last chance at Arsenal? Oh, um,

I mean, two seasons in a row he said without serious creative or goal-scoring output doesn't augur well for a guy turning 24. I mean, is there something in that? People have complained about Martinelli. I have to say I love him. I've also complained about him, but I absolutely love him. And he loves the club. He's an Arsenal boy. He loves being in London. He said he'd stay here after he finished playing. He loves it here, right? He really does. He wouldn't want to go anywhere else. But...

He's a frustrating player. Yeah, there's definitely room for improvement, but I wouldn't say he's at last chance saloon just yet. I think when you look at... Is he close to the saloon? Is he just outside about to step in, shaking off his umbrella? I'd say he was probably closer around Christmas. But then since Saka's injury, I think he was one of the players that stepped up the most.

Even though sometimes on the right he didn't look natural, he was still effective, I felt. I think what would help him, I know we spoke about it a couple of times already, but is that like more support in wide areas from just more options for Mikel Arteta to have. Then he doesn't have to start every game. He could be a bit fresher coming off the bench, being an impact player who has maybe spaces to go at. I think when you're the guy who's starting every game,

I think up until Christmas, then it just becomes a bit of a slog. And it's felt like a slog for him for a while until the last few weeks, I'd say, where he actually had a bit of space to go into. I think that's all true. But I just, I like him and I want him to do well at the Arsenal. And I do remember two years ago. Yeah. Stoke Newington Gooners asked, do you think Arsenal's approach of playing the kids in the League Cup might be an approach to bring back

might give us a better chance of getting to the later rounds of the FA Cup. I mean, we did have some very, very talented kids. I remember Cesc Fabregas playing against Port Vale or someone years ago, James. So maybe, but do you think he's... I think the question is, do you think he's rotated the squad enough? What do you think? Oh, man, that's a big question because I think... It is. I think...

The Arsenal situation was different. I think that the way that our squad was constructed at that time was different. You've got to remember that was a period where we weren't investing so much in big first team signings, but we were quite aggressively pursuing young talent. So we had below that first team.

a group of kind of 18, 19 year olds and younger sometimes in Cesc Fabregas or Jack Wilshere that you could kind of cobble together a pretty impressive team from. You know, I'm thinking of periods where we had kind of, we mentioned Nick Bentner earlier, but Bentner, Lupoli, Quincy Owusu-Obeye, Danny Carbassiun, these were all players who'd been assembled from like Europe and North America and some of the top academies and,

And then later on, obviously, Carlos Vela, we mentioned as well. These were really gifted groups. And a lot of those players went on to have careers at international levels.

I don't think Arsenal have right now in their academy a group of, apart from the obvious exceptions who are making pressure on the first team, future international calibre players. We can by all means rotate and play the kids, but there's a very good chance we might go out. And I'm not sure people want that either.

Yeah, I mean, all these questions bring up all sorts of other questions that we could discuss. But we've just got a couple more. Ben, hey guys, who are the team that you want to do well outside of Arsenal? Yeah.

whether through fondness, certain players or family ties. I'm going to ask both of you. Are, uh, anyone you got a little, you know, after the Arsenal? To be fair, it doesn't really go by clubs. It kind of goes by players. Um, so like this year kind of kept an eye out for Fulham. Um,

I went to a Fulham game as well because of Smith Rowe, Iwobi and Nelson. But yeah, down the years, it's never really been like I've never had a second club kind of thing. No. But yeah, players I'll look out for still. James, I'll ask you. Yeah, don't have a special sort of second club. I look out for a few local teams to where I grew up. Watford, Boreham Wood,

I will say, and it sounds odd because they're sort of rivals of ours this season. I've really enjoyed watching Forest of late. I love the way they counter-attack. You know, they've got Alanga, Hudson-Odoi, Gibbs-White.

Chris Wood in the form of his life they are genuinely quite an enthralling team to watch and very very dynamic so and Nuno's a good character as well isn't he yeah I mean listen we like the manager he did well at Spurs for us so I like that so yeah I've enjoyed them this season but no I mean I'm very Arsenal focused and I'm not sure if you've noticed

Also, on players, I remember at the Community Shield, Cole Palmer's goal.

and I was just like wow this guy's unbelievable and I'd already liked him beforehand because of I don't know if you guys seen his post-match interview from like three years ago yeah where the guy asks him oh first FA Cup goal how about in the Premier League and he goes Prem soon come and I was just obsessed with him since then so even though even though he's a Chelsea player I still love him and I also feel like you

He just plays football the right way. So he's a guy I always look out for as well. Yeah. Ian? West Ham a little bit because they were the first club I ever went to and I was born around there, even though I didn't live there for very long. But West Ham really would be the one. But now I want Gerard Bowen to sign for us is what I'd like now. I really, really think he'd be an excellent person to go for, I think.

personally and that's not actually not just personally it's a mate of mine Sean who feels the same way and we talk about it quite a lot we just like the way he plays but West Ham would be the ones um

And we don't want to do this. Alvin, finally, if we go to season again without a trophy, will questions be asked as to whether Arteta are taking us as far as they can? Yes, of course they will, Alvin. I think really it's a case of whether we want to listen to the questions. Really? Yeah. I mean, sure, those questions will be asked. I think they already are. It will be asked, but I guess it depends who we sign, right?

And if we sign, if we have a big summer, people will go, go on then. Yeah, let's not have that podcast before we get there. No, that's my feeling. Let's have a song, though. Let's have a song, James. Oh, I've gone for sure. If I could turn back time. Nice. I've got two in my head. I had one coming into it to kind of uplift the vibes, which was Rock Your Body by Justin Timberlake.

But then when you were talking about sadness, my head went to Summertime Sadness by Lana Del Rey. Yeah, well, I mean, I got Sorrow by David Bowie. I've also got, I was thinking about the hamstrings. So Stretch, there's a band called Stretch. Why did you do it? Which doesn't necessarily relate to anything, but the band are called Stretch. So you get the point. Why did you do it?

Why did you do that thing to me? It's Pilates, you see, hamstring. Anyway, that's what I would do on stage. I'd explain the joke again until they laughed, and I'd keep making eye contact with all of them. Anyway, that's it for this edition of Hand Break Off. We'll see you after Leicester. Thanks to James, thanks to Art, and thanks to Robbie, our producer. See you.