Bayern's Diaz approach turned down & do Liverpool need a new No.9?
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The Athletic FC Podcast Network. All right, Reds. Tony Evans here. We'll walk on your Liverpool podcast from the Athletic.

I'm here with Andy Jones and Mark Carey. Yes, those slackers Hughes and Pearce are on holiday somewhere. Their life's a holiday, isn't it? Anyway, today we're going to talk about Bayern's rejected offer for Diaz, ask what Liverpool do with the Canarsie contract issue and assess how the squad is set before a Premier League title defence. But before we get into that, let

Let's start with those three words. Well, Mark, were you warned about the three words? I was warned about the three words. I have been on once, maybe twice on this podcast, so I've come prepared. And my three words are plenty of change.

Whether that's in the playing side or the coaching side, which we'll come on to with the news that has come out recently. But I think it is really interesting to unpack, as we will in this episode, what has been the outgoings, but also the incomings and how things are

are going to shuffle or, you know, have a bit of a refresh, which I think is interesting. Yeah, and of course you've been on the pods. It's just you've not been in the three-word slot before. Andy, you have, and you are familiar, and you always come prepared. Not like that. Oh, that's a screech use. Yeah, I'm going to go for it. It stands for Ulster Heaven.

because it just keeps things coming off, doesn't it? It keeps the noise all the time. So if you're the transfered ulcer, you are having the time of your life this summer. Yeah, well, I mean, when you look at what everyone's saying, the listeners are saying, well, they agree with that. Stu Siegel, use your beauty. Craig Nysus, don't sell Harvey. Matthew Walker, still no easer.

Marcus Maruth could be Vates. Oh, Marcus, Marcus, Marcus. To join our community of listeners on Facebook, just search Walk On Podcast and join the group. Mark, you're joining us from Philadelphia, the city of brotherly love. Are you enjoying it there? Yeah, really good. Really, really good. It's a little bit rainy here. I've heard that it's very warm back home, so I kind of left the

The nice weather, but yeah, managed to get to a game and going to get to plenty more in Philadelphia and then up to New York for more action in the Club World Cup. Whatever your opinion might be on the Club World Cup, I'm certainly enjoying it because I've got a vested interest in reporting on the games. Yeah, well, I mean, now we've got to knock out FaZe. It certainly has picked up interest. And as I was saying, Andy, I was just saying the city of brotherly love, I mean...

If that other slacker, Pearce, was here, it'd be the city of Philly cheesesteaks, wouldn't it? It would, yeah. It would. I'm sure he's wherever he is at the moment. Although, I think he's working on his book, isn't he? That book, The Rival Size. Yeah.

salad book which you've never mentioned before so I don't know how much time he's got for eating I believe he has but yeah I'm not sure how much time James has got for eating at the minute because I think he's deep in the depths of words alright Andy what's your view on the Club World Cup

Hmm, a good question. I've enjoyed bits of it because I'll admit I haven't watched loads of it. I've sort of dipped in and out of it. I've watched a certain somebody just to see how he was getting on who we don't name. I'm not going to name him this time. Harry Kane? No, not him. I saw enough of him in the Premier League. I don't know if anyone else would be interested in that tournament. Don't know of anyone. No, but that's the thing. So I've sort of watched it when I feel like I wanted to watch a bit of Fuzzy, but I've not really been glued to the screen and...

I'll probably now, as you say, as the knockout phases are getting underway and the big teams are playing the big teams and there's already been the shock of Man City going out, probably watch a little bit more as we get to the final stages. But yeah, I mean, from a Liverpool perspective, I just hope that everyone's knackered and Liverpool get a massive advantage from that next season. That's what I'm hoping for. So City going out wasn't the greatest thing in the world.

From a farmer what do you make of Bayern's approach for Luis Diaz and Liverpool rejecting him? Are you surprised? Do you think he'd suit Bayern and do you think he's the sort of player who Liverpool could afford to let go for the right price? I think it makes sense from a Bayern perspective because Leroy Sané is going to Turkey so I think that they need someone in that wide area someone who's a

a direct runner who can dribble with the ball, who can drag the team up the field, who's really good in those transitional moments and Luis Diaz is that player. We know that to be clear. So I think it makes sense that they would want him if he were obviously available in the market and Liverpool have pushed it back as Andy's mentioned a piece out this morning. So,

I think, can Liverpool afford to lose him or should they be interested in selling him? I don't think so. I think that he's a great option to have on the left side of attack. Of course, they've got Cody Gakpo as well, but he's really versatile in being able to play that

that false nine role as well which he did so well at times last season sometimes there were a couple of games which maybe didn't work to great effect but broadly speaking he did pretty well and it obviously helped to have a knock-on effect elsewhere on the pitch as well but I think people talk about his lack of output at times and he can be a little bit frustrating sometimes in running down blind alleys with his dribbling and not necessarily always having that sort of output but I looked at the numbers in terms of how many goals and assists he got last season and in all competitions he got 17 goals and 5 assists which is

not to be sniffed at and if you do take that out of the team for next season just puts even more attacking responsibility on Mohamed Salah of course Florian Virch has come in as well but I think he is the sort of player that Liverpool would be looking for if he weren't already at the club or certainly looking at if he weren't already at the club so I think that unless it was just maximising the money in a sale while Liverpool

you can and be quite cold-blooded about it. I don't think Liverpool should be looking to sell. Andy, as Mark just said, you've been all over this and you wrote a great piece about it today, as usual, great pieces. You really should be subscribing to the athletic people. Rises like these are fairly thin on the ground. You need to do it. But anyway, Andy, well, what's the latest and what do you make of Diaz? I'll be absolutely honest, if the price was right, I think I'd pull the trigger on the deal.

Yes, I mean, the latest is that Liverpool were approached by Bayern Munich about the possibility of sort of discussing a deal for Luis Diaz and Liverpool basically shut it down straight away, as they did with Barcelona last month. It's very clear, Liverpool are making it very, very clear that they want to keep Diaz, they're planning on him being there for this season, the upcoming season and beyond, and sort of value what he's going to bring to the slot squad. So they've sort of not...

They've got no desire to enter discussions with anyone. They're basically just saying he's not for sale. I think it's an interesting one. I think with your business hat on, which is not really what you should be thinking about when it comes to footy, ultimately I think there's a price. I think it's a significant price. But if I struggle to see how many Liverpool fans could argue that if an £80 million bid came in for Luis Diaz, they'd say reject it, for example.

Now, I don't know whether anyone would go that high, for example. But I think that's what you're talking about because, as Mark alluded to, he did have a really good season last season. There was periods where the output wasn't there, I think,

I think there was a spell sort of middle of the season where it was one goal in 18 or 19 or something like that, which obviously is... which is when he was predominantly playing as the number nine. But we know from discussing it many times on the podcast that the number nine position was a pretty difficult position to play last season for Liverpool and no one who played there produced goals regularly. But yeah, there's a lot of value in what Liverpool have got at the moment from him in terms of that versatility. I think there's a big question mark about what his...

if, who, the number nine Liverpool potentially might buy us because I think that does dictate things because if you're buying an out-and-out number nine then you're probably going to lose you're going to use Diaz a lot less in that role so then you're talking about him sort of going back to fighting it out with Cody Gappo for the left wing position and I think you would argue that he's at his peak value right now coming off the back of the season that he's had with the two years left from after the summer onwards his value will only decrease but Liverpool have shown that

they're more than happy to put sport and interest above financial and if that is that Diaz plays for the next two years at Liverpool and then leaves for free and they feel that's a greater contribution than selling him and not having him in the team then that's what they'll do so I think that looks like where they're at at the moment because it doesn't seem like there's sort of contract discussions you know advancing or anything like that in terms of giving him a renewal and at the age that that makes a lot of sense for Liverpool to not be really looking at that because

because you don't want to be given a four-year deal and he's then 32 by the end of that contract. He might retain his value at the same time. So there's loads of different ways you can look at it. But I think given the season he's had, given the faith that Slott has in him, he was the preferred number nine at the end of the season, the trust that Slott has in him to do the job that he wants and play in that system, you don't want to be changing too much. And Liverpool are changing a lot already.

So there is that element as well. Yeah, we're going to talk much more about that as we go on. But Mark, one of the things that's interesting is Jarrell Kwanzaa. It's been confirmed he's moved to Bayern Leverkusen. Were you a bit surprised about that? I mean, given Liverpool's need for a centre-half anyway, his performance at the under-21s, Euros...

what do you make of that yeah i thought if he was gonna maybe leave it could be something that that would maybe be more on loan to just allow him to get more minutes and far more experience i think people maybe think that he is kind of a 17 18 year old i think he's 22 now isn't he as well so i think that if he's not going to get regular minutes as he didn't necessarily last season it may be a good opportunity for him to maybe go out on loan but i mean andy spoke about the the financial side of things with the potential diaz deal i think that it was

something that if if Leverkusen were offering the money as they did offer the money that they did in the region of 30 million pounds I think it was something that was maybe led a bit more by the financial decision to be like okay well this is something that we need to to consider here it has left Liverpool a little bit thin on the ground from a centre-back perspective and we'll come on to that as to maybe how they can remedy that whether that's maybe shuffling people around in the squad or bringing someone else in but I do think the financial part of things did sort

sort of play into it a little bit here as well and I don't really know fully about the whole PSR thing I almost don't want to get into it but the idea of balancing the books a little bit from a homegrown perspective I don't know whether that was factored in but that's about as much as I'll say in it because it bores me

But I do think it's maybe one of those that if Liverpool can get another centre-back in of a similar quality for a similar price, or I should say similar price of better quality to improve, then I think it will be kind of a job well done. Even though ideally, you know, Liverpool fans will want to see a homegrown player come through and end up playing for Liverpool for many years. I do think this was a bit more cold-blooded business-like and pretty efficient.

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Right, well let's talk about how well equipped the squad is today.

next season at this point. But there's a couple of things which I'm really interested in your opinion on this, both of you. Most teams that defend the title make small changes. You build from position of strength. But Liverpool seem to be making significant changes, particularly with the acquisition of Vards. They're going to play in a different way next season. Before we start on the squads, I'd like to get basically a short

answer from you both certainly you Andy is whether this is a sensible thing to do I think if you're gonna do it it's this summer because of the lack of international competitions and slot will essentially get his entire first team squad there on the first day of pre-season which gives him the maximum amount of time to work with them and figure out these tactical differences but I also think that

There's a lot of outgoings potentially, but a lot of them are squad players. You're generally keeping the core, which I think is the important thing. Wirtz obviously does change a lot of things, but he's probably going to have the same centre-half, the same two central midfielders, the same goalkeeper and Mo Salah. So that is a big part of your spine. It's not like you are losing one of those big players and changing everything from that. Yeah, Mark, what are your thoughts?

Yeah, I do agree. I think that it was quite clear, a lot of people were saying it, that things maybe needed to be tweaked even when Liverpool were doing well and about to clinch the title last season. So it was clear that changes probably needed to be made in the summer regardless. And I know you mentioned it, signing from a position of strength.

I think in personnel terms, there's going to be a bit of change. Obviously, we've seen that in fullback areas, obviously Vert's coming in, but I don't think it will necessarily mean like an overhaul in terms of the overall tactical ideas. I just think it will probably mean on a slot able to actually implement the ideas that we'd already kind of started to see last season or definitely had seen last season, but just to sort of to greater effect or with kind of maybe more conviction and

And you think about things like the fullbacks, Liverpool played far more in the wide areas under Jurgen Klopp, especially sort of midway through his time there. Arnott Slott doesn't

tend to do that quite in the same way and I was looking at the numbers last season in terms of how much of the ball goes through Andy Robertson and Trent Alexander-Arnold it was significantly less it was going far more through the middle obviously Virgil van Dijk into Ryan Gravenbergen through the centre of the pitch now that Wurz is there that would be probably even more so so even with the changes and in the full-back areas I still think the style that Liverpool will play with will be rather similar but just hopefully kind of executed to even greater effect than they did last season

Yeah, I mean, Klopp made the midfield a more of a defensive unit, you know, sort of covering space for the wing-backs, protecting the back, you know, the centre-halves and pressing the opposition. They weren't

It wasn't a ball playing midfield, and that emphasis has changed. So, yeah, so I think we're going to see, because both full-backs are very, very, and we'll talk about this shortly, are very, very ambitious going forward. But, yeah, we'll get to that. Let's start at the goalkeepers. Andy, first of all, I don't believe that we should be signing people whose names are impossible for me to pronounce. LAUGHTER

Well, you'll have to learn quickly then. Because this, I mean, Mamedashvili looks like he's going to be, well, I think the hope is that he's going to be Liverpool's goalkeeper for the next decade maybe, once Alisson does move on. Which, it's a little bit difficult to know exactly when that might be, but it feels like it's coming and Liverpool moving for Mamedashvili when they did. For the price, there's an idea of maybe getting ahead of the pack on him, but ultimately...

they're looking at him as the goalkeeper for the future and if they're executing the move now he's not going to be for the talent levels that he's got he's not going to be wanting to sit on the bench for too long and the way Kelleher got called for it eventually and got fed up of being an excellent backup that's not what he's coming to do he's coming to be Liverpool's number one it's just when

sort of transition happens but what you've got is you know, Kelleher leaving you could have had a big hole in that department but you've not because you've already been proactive and replaced them. Yeah, I mean it looks like a more serious battle for the first you know, for the first team choice there doesn't it Mark? Yeah, which I think many people have said in the past I'm not all that keen

that keen on in terms of there being some doubt as to maybe who's going to start but I think it's obvious that Alisson is going to be the one to start as long as he's at the club I think he will be definitely the number one I think that Mohamedash Vili there you go I can't even say it Mohamedash Vili has said that he is coming to learn I think that he's under no illusion that to Andy's point that he's going to be the

for the future but in the immediate term or the short term he said that he's coming to learn to be able to train with Alisson and learn so much I think would be hugely valuable of course he is still young I think that

his distribution if we were sort of breaking it down between shot stopping and distribution I think it's clear the size of him as well the stature that he's got he's a fantastic shot stopper I think it's clear and it's been reported widely that his distribution maybe still could be improved so you think that okay if he is to have a season to be the backup can improve that distribution significantly and then sort of

allow Liverpool to build him into the player that they want to while he's in the building rather than try to maybe buy a ready-made player and then you kind of got a bit of peril if they start on the opening day of the season you just don't know exactly what you're going to get so I think it's wise I think it's good future planning I think Liverpool have been good at that in recent seasons and

I will be interested to see just how the dynamic might change across the season. Of course, Kelly had got more minutes than he may be expected last season because of Alison's injury. So if the same thing were to happen again for the stretch of five or six weeks, it'd be interesting to see kind of how he...

Yeah, drops in and does a good job in the style that Liverpool want him to. Yeah, that's going to be a very interesting situation. And given Alisson's injury record, you're right, Mark, we might see more of him than we anticipated. Well, Antti, the back four, you did a piece last week about the uncertainty around Canarte. And depending on what happens...

It's possible that there could be three changes from last season in the back four with only Virgil van Dijk being there. Now, if you're going to have anyone who stays, you know, you want an organiser and a voice and a presence like Virgil. But it is a big overhaul, isn't it really?

Yeah, it would be. And obviously, you know, the piece basically outlined that, you know, the options that Liverpool have got when it comes to Canarte because, you know, there is a situation where he ends up being the second player or the second defender to leave on a free at the peak of his powers, basically, in successive seasons. And it's something that Liverpool...

really can't afford to let happen. I think it's fair to say because of Canarte's quality and I think when he was at his best last season and I think whether he quite recaptured the form he had in those early months after that

knee injury that he had I'm not quite sure because he did sort of he came back quicker Joe Gomez got injured didn't he and I think he said himself he was playing through the pain Barry and I'm not quite sure he ever got quite back up to that same standard that he set in those first two months three months but he was still excellent and it's a

centre-back partnership that I think Slott regardless of Canarte's contract situation will want to keep together for the upcoming season definitely because it was such a strong foundation with Alisson behind them I think the full-backs are interesting because of the type of full-backs I think it

It'll be interesting to see how he uses them because they are, as we alluded to, attack-minded and want to get forward. But that has put a lot of pressure on the centre-backs and Canarte has been brilliant at being able to fill in that space when that fella used to get off the flank to cause havoc creatively. Because ultimately, I don't think you can cash in on Canarte this summer because, one, the teams who won him

So PSG and Real Madrid have been the main two linked with them. Neither of them are desperate for the centre-half. Real Madrid have obviously signed Huisson and PSG showed last season that they've got quality in that department. So there's no real need for them to spend money when they can wait 12 months and get in for free. And ultimately, Canarte is also...

into the fact that if he wants to dictate where he wants to go, he can wait 12 months. It's then what you do from a Liverpool perspective about long-term planning. But, you know, Slotcher last season with the right back, I mentioned him a lot, I'm not going to be able to say his name and find different ways to say it, that he will, you know, Liverpool's success comes first. So whether there's contract situations hanging over them or not, he will put the best team out that will help Liverpool win games. So,

So it's an interesting one, but it's potentially a succession plan. And ultimately, Liverpool do hope that there will be a resolution and Canarte will extend his tenure at Liverpool beyond 2026. Yeah, I mean, I don't see... I mean, if we're talking about succession planning, Mark, I don't see Canarte...

ever develop into anywhere close to Van Dijk personally. I think if he goes anywhere else, he's going to find life without Virgil to be much more difficult. But, I mean, what's your thoughts on him and this whole change of emphasis in the defence? Yeah, I think any player who plays alongside Virgil van Dijk is made to look better and then you take Virgil van Dijk out of the team and the player is maybe...

to your point and maybe not got quite the the leadership or the organization but i think that's mainly more a compliment to virgil van dyck as much as anything but i think that what canate does well and andy alluded to it before is his ability to to cover those those wide areas it's probably more relevant under the under jürgen klopp but his ability to to push into wide areas and to cover loads of space behind him i think if you were to maybe get someone else in they'd have to sort of

or work on that, which Canarte has got, irrespective of maybe how he is on the ball. And I was actually reading something recently with Liverpool's former director of research, Ian Graham, and he said that when he was looking into the data on Canarte, if you looked at the event data, so the things that do happen, your tackles, your clearances and stuff, he didn't necessarily stand out. But the tracking data, which showed where he was on the pitch, it showed that he was just so...

strong at being able to just cover so much of that space this was before they recruited him and there's not too many centre-backs who can sort of fit into that mould quite in the same way and you think that Liverpool have been linked with Mark Gurhey for example obviously Crystal Palace defender they for all that he is a quality centre-back

for Crystal Palace at least, he's done it maybe more for England and he's obviously been trained in the Chelsea Academy. He's a very strong centre-back, but he's not someone who is as capable or has played as frequently in a high line, able to cover loads and loads of space in a defensive two. So I think sometimes it's maybe not be careful what you wish for, but maybe thinking that you can upgrade in certain areas, but it's a very specific profile of player sometimes that Liverpool need. I think that Canate kind of does provide that. I think that

maybe on a slot given that he's got a bit more focus on playing in possession as Virgil van Dijk has shown his improvement if you like in possession or he's a really impressed slot I think he said last season and just how good he is at starting build-ups for Liverpool if you could get another player who can maybe be a bit stronger in possession I could understand it but I think Liverpool should absolutely do their best to try and hold on to Canarsie for as long as possible.

Well, you know what my problem with Canarte is? My problem is limping off with cramp in the second half of a knockout game in the Champions League. No, no, the big fat no. And really, he's got to do something spectacular to win me back.

Let's talk about the midfield and how does that jigsaw work with Wirtz? I don't know, Andy. That's why I'm asking you. Well, I mean, this is the... I think this is the most interesting thing going into the pre-season and seeing Wirtz in action is exactly where Slot uses him. I think it feels like he's going to be a number 10, but then that does have knock-on effects across the rest of the team in terms of Sabozlai and...

the amount of work he gets through covering for Salah but obviously Werth is also, well Werth is more left-sided so there's the number 10 flip to the other side to incorporate getting the best out of Werth and then how does that change everything tactically it's

it's really really interesting I don't think anyone's got the answer Arna Slott definitely does because that's how he convinced Valiant Wraiths to come to the club and I'm sure I mean he's much more gifted tactically than me so I'm sure he's got the answer No surely not

And it'll all work, I'm sure. But it is the big question. It's where he's going to be used. And ultimately, with Liverpool not signing a number nine yet, it does feel like whether the plan was to play him as a number 10 or not, he may have to do a fair bit of false nine until Liverpool get that, if Liverpool do get that striker in, because it does feel like that dictates what comes next in the way Liverpool are set up.

The other thing with Wirtz is he's not the tallest. And, you know, to go back to Canarte, and if you're losing to Bosley's height, for example, if that's where he comes in...

Suddenly you're looking at a Liverpool team which isn't huge. It wasn't particularly big anyway, but it factors in for recruitment of a centre-half as well. Because Canarsie is a big unit next to Van Dijk and with the full-backs Liverpool have brought in, Frimpong is small and Kerkhuis isn't big either. So there's those little things, but I think ultimately Liverpool need to make sure they get the best out of Florian Wurth and the best out of Mo Salah next season. They should get the best out of each other.

And it's just interesting to see how it all fits in. And I am interested by Mark's thoughts on it, to be honest. As someone who's a bit more data-tatticky, that is the forte of him. That's where we're going next. But I'd like to, Mark, at this stage, because we're running ahead of ourselves, as we always do, and we're talking about the forwards again, but the midfield, how do you see it? If you ask me now to write down Liverpool's start in the first 11 for the beginning of the season...

I'm not so sure I'd be confident yeah that's interesting I wouldn't be confident in naming it but I'd be confident in the midfield that Liverpool have and the options that they have I think that Slott's got good players good players very good players I think Slott probably needs to rotate a little bit more in trusting certain players to come in he did it at times last season but I think we can speak about it in terms of Ryan Gravenberch was just

by the end of the season. I think that he could maybe rotate a little bit more in kind of the pivot area. I think he trusted Gravenberg so much that he just kind of ran him into the ground a little bit. But I think maybe rotations in terms of Curtis Jones can do that. Obviously Alexis McAllister can do that. I think if he really stretched it, Dominic Soboslai could potentially do that as well. But I think that, yeah, with the options that they have, I think that they've got a really strong team

a strong midfield if we're thinking about the attacking midfield obviously with a Soboslai and a Wurz could they play together?

maybe, which has been done before Liverpool last season. Potentially, I think I wrote about it when we analysed Wurz and said that Sobislai is a little bit more macro in terms of his intensity, his leading of the press, his work off the ball and Wurz is very much micro and like those small little gaps, those little pockets and maybe playing more against defensively

deeper defences who are going to maybe just try and shut the door and keep things really compact and frustrate Liverpool, Virts will absolutely come into his own there. If it's more maybe away from home, leading the press, making sure that you're just

pushing the opposition as much as you can I think Solbergslai is maybe more the player there so if it was to be one or the other those sort of tactical demands might dictate then who plays but I just think I do genuinely think the options in midfield going from defensive midfield into attacking midfield is really really good and the versatility of each of those players could kind of rotate within whether it is defensive central or attacking midfield and

yeah i i don't want to do a pun but i'm going to any but that vert's versatility you could say allows you to play him in in different pockets i think if people haven't got a headline on that already they absolutely should that he can he can play more in central midfield areas and i say central midfield as in central areas within attacking midfield but can push of course over to the left and maybe play as a false nine as well so it's really exciting what the the options that slot has and

As Jonesy said, I think that he's clearly outlined that to Virta, maybe where he sees him next season. As you've probably heard by now, we've teamed up with BetMGM this season. We'll be using BetMGM lines to make all of our picks, and we'll have special offers for our listeners each week. If you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code THEATHLETIC, and you'll get a one-year subscription to The Athletic, plus up to a $1,500 first bet offer on your first wager with BetMGM. Here's how it works.

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Well, we're at the attack, Andy. So let's have more conversation about Verte. And let's have more puns about Verte. Let's see if we can go for the United Kingdom and Old Cummins records on Verte puns on a podcast episode. I think we've probably broken it already. Yeah, I haven't got any. I need time to think about puns. They come to me naturally, I have to say. In that case, talk football.

Talk to the attack. Yes, I mean, the attacks really interest them because it looks like Liverpool are going to move on Darwin Nunes and Federico Chiesa, which obviously takes them down to those six attackers, five and one, I guess, for Chiesa, because I don't know whether you can really consider him part of Liverpool last season because of just the lack of minutes and lack of impact he had. But you are, you know, it's where the VAR is seen as part of that.

you know that attacking crew which would suggest more of false nine or we're still waiting to find out exactly who they're going to add to it and you know Liverpool have got to sell down Nunes first and while we continue to talk about the fact that he's going to go there's still got to be a club that comes in and pays the money that Liverpool feel he's worth which is significant in a

in a market and as we've seen with strikers that are potentially moving this summer it's a market that's demanding a lot of money for a lot of players regardless of

you know, really reputation. It's just that there's not many number nines about and therefore prices are going through the roof as a lot of clubs are finding when they sign it because it's not just Liverpool looking for a number nine this summer. So yeah, I think once Nunes moves on, it'll probably become a little bit clear exactly what Liverpool want to do. But again, it's whether they want that number nine or do they want to make it more versatile forward or are they prepared to settle with sort of

with Vertus being one of the forward options. Ultimately, it comes down to can you rely on Mohamed Salah to have the same season that he did last season because he was so pivotal in his record-breaking goals and assist contributions and everything like that. If you can guarantee he's going to do that again, then it makes everything else a lot easier to think about. But it's...

Do you need a number nine to come in and score 20 goals for you to help with the load on Salah? That's the big question, and I'm sure that's the one Liverpool have been talking about for a long time now, to see what direction you want to move the attack in. Yeah, well, I mean, if you can find a 20-goal striker, you can just bring him in anyway, anytime. But it's all going to be about Vert and Salah, really, isn't it, Mark? I mean...

The attack is going to be built around them one way or another. I think so. I think there's obviously so much talk about so many teams across Europe maybe needing a certain centre forward. It's only my opinion, but I just don't think that Liverpool need a centre forward per se. What they need is goals in their team and a clinical striker of the ball, not necessarily a clinical striker. And that is Mohamed Salah. So however the goals may come, they have someone who is the...

if you like and yes to Andy's point I don't think that maybe he'll have the same unbelievable season that he had last season but I don't think he needs to and I think that

Rather than necessarily trying to buy a centre forward who's kind of a plug-in play, he's your 20 goal a season striker. I think that they've been far more intelligent about it by bringing in Wirt and his creativity. They've basically brought in one of the most creative players in European football, can then raise the levels of the other players in the attacking line and himself chip in with goals.

then maybe set up more players who are maybe coming into the midfield as well, or from midfield into the box as well. So I think that they've kind of gone more for the foundation of improving the attack rather than someone who could potentially blow hot and cold as a centre forward who you maybe got more question marks over. So I think it has been a really intelligent piece of business to bring Wirtz in for his creativity as well as his goal scoring. He has got an eye for a goal as well. And

if there was ever a blueprint I know that Arnaz Lot likes to look at other managers and other teams across Europe as um as inspiration if you like and you only have to look as far as Paris Saint-Germain PSG obviously just won the Champions League they've got a really fluid attack across the three and Ousmane Dembele has been a clinical goal scorer but he's a winger by trade and each of those three if you ever watch them they'll just rotate between them sometimes one will pop up on the left then on the right then through the middle and

And I don't think that one necessarily needs a dedicated central striker. And obviously the champions of Europe currently have proved that to be the case. So I think if Liverpool move maybe more towards that direction with the players they've got and the quality that they've got already in the squad, I think that will be really, really exciting next season. I think the one big difference or one of the big differences, because there's a few, but Mark's right, Slott talked so positively and so clearly

you know, wax lyrical about PSG basically after Liverpool have played them. But what is one of the big keys of their front three is the pace. And I think it's fair to say that Liverpool's front line is lacking pace. Now Liverpool have added pace in other areas with the signers they've made in Kierkegaard and Fimpong to provide plenty of pace down the flanks. And Werther's pace is in the mind in that he's five, 10 seconds ahead of everyone else in terms of where he wants to play the ball. But I think Liverpool, you know, Salah has still got pace, but he's not the electric striker

speedster that he was when he, you know, in his mid-twenties when he first arrived at Liverpool. And I think it is important that you do have the players with the ability to stretch him behind and really cause, you know, opposition problems. Nunes was, has got the attributes to do it, but so often, you know, struggled to do it. Whether that was from him standing offside, whether it was the, you know, just the defences that Liverpool were coming up against. For anyone that Liverpool recruits, I feel like they've got to have speed and

I think it's really important to, to one, add versatility because it's a skill set that Liverpool's front four don't really have. But just to have that out and out speed, I think that's what made PSG so incredible to watch, but also so dangerous that they can go from A to B in 0.0 seconds because they were that quick and it was just ridiculous. Some of the, some of the movements. 0.0 seconds. Exactly. Well, that's a new record, isn't it? You couldn't even blink. It had moved, it had gone and it changed. Yeah.

But that's the thing, they were, Kvac, Gellie, Dembele, Barkhole, you know, all of them were just so, so quick in the,

on and off the ball and it just made them impossible to keep up with and it's fair to say Ains and Milan experienced that at the highest order when they faced them in the Champions League final because they also had the pace of Nuno Mendes and Hakimi who were as quick as the forwards so the pace and the ability and the engines that all five of them had just made them ridiculous and I think that pace is a really important attribute that Liverpool need to add to the forward line this summer

Yeah, interesting. What do you think, Mark? Do you think the relationship between Frimpong and Wurz will be something that we'll see a lot of during the season? You know, the way there was a right back, I forget his name, him and Salah used to have this thing going for them all. You know, even Mane and Robertson, you know, the way they sort of

the way they played together. Do you think we're going to see that? You know, them both coming from Leverkusen, obviously, and having a previous relationship. Do you think that's something that's going to be one of the defining factors of the season? I actually don't. I don't think it'll be a defining factor. I think it will certainly help them both settle at the club. I don't think it will be outrageous in terms of the link up between the two. I think it obviously helps that they know each other's game, of course. I think Andy mentioned it, that

tends to like to drift over to the left more than the right if he sort of had the choice, shall we say. I think he probably will drift across both sides in the coming season a little bit more than he maybe did because he was more of the left, specifically the left number 10 at Leverkusen. But if he's going to be a bit more kind of the central number 10, he can go on both sides. So I think that it will help that he'll know the sort of runs that Frimpong will make. But I don't think it will necessarily be defining. But as I say, it will certainly help if nothing else. And I think

As much as anything, the main thing is bringing quality players in, whoever that may be from. And I think they've obviously done that with the pair of them, two players who know what it means to go undefeated for a whole season. They're clearly...

And I think just going back to the idea of pace as well, I think that with Frimpong, he kind of only knows one direction, that is forward. I think across European football, of any fullback, he's got the most, if not touches into the box and runs into the box. He really, really loves to spend a lot of time in the attacking third. So,

if it were the case that maybe Salah was to tuck inside ever so slightly and Frimpong would be the one to either overlap or underlap you've got maybe pace in raw terms in terms of speed but also in number where if you're the opposition left back and you've got Salah and Frimpong running at you in different directions as well I think that could maybe be something that kind of can discombobulate the fullbacks as well so I think it's a good start that they've got such pace in in fullback areas obviously with Kirk has on the other side as well who are just willing to just

go and go forward with everything they have so hopefully I've sort of broadly answered your question but I don't think that necessarily the link up between them would be defining but as I say of course it helps I think it could be defining but not necessarily as the link up but just in terms of Liverpool's setup because if it's if it does stay if he does place number 10 but the number 10 remains on the right hand side and you've got Wirt, Frimpong and Salah as a three then

all of their you know they all do their best work in the final third you really wouldn't want to be a left back in this league you wouldn't but you might want to be a left winger who stays up yeah because if that would you know that would scream there's your counter attack on opportunity because if you won all three where they're going to work best then obviously there would be

Liverpool will do plenty of work to make sure that this all works smoothly. But I think it could be the fan, because if that is the way Liverpool do set up in terms of Vert does play,

go the right side of number 10 and stay there. You've got Frimpong bombing on ahead of Salah. You've got Salah staying forward and not really doing the work. It is interesting to see how the midfield may, the midfield and defence would then all sort of fit in. It would be a lot of work you feel for Ryan Gravenberg and Ibrahim Mekanati, for example. And you wonder, because what Slott did really well last season was he was able to control opposition counter-attacks really, really well. That's one of the

the things that Liverpool improved or felt that they improved in as they were able to be more compact and stay in shape and not look as exposed if teams were able to break on them. And you do wonder how it all fits in as to, you know, if you've got all three of them on the same side of the pitch, all in the same, you know, where you want them to be, which is high up the pitch, how that may then, you know,

filter down throughout the rest of the team of how you work out how you stay compact and and win the ball back as quickly as possible and and not allow teams to to counter-attack so i think that's why it might be the final not necessarily their their link specifically but i think just how they may influence liverpool's tactical shape could be quite interesting yeah is there any opprovy elliot mark

I think the signing of Wurz kind of means that the writing is on the wall. I think it's obvious that he's had an unbelievable summer for the under-21s. I mean, when you see the goals as well that he scored, it's frightening just how much quality he has. And you think, could there be a place for him? But as I say, it seems from the actions that Liverpool have taken that there's probably not.

I think he would be kind of perfect as a number 10. Well, he is perfect as a number 10 or very good in that position because I think that the question marks that I think has been placed on Harvey Elliott previously is that he's not a number eight who's able to cover the ground just because of his diminutive size. He's able to cover the ground and get up and down the pitch quite as well as

as maybe a Ryan Gravenberch in terms of just the legs he has in midfield, for example. But given the way that Liverpool are kind of evolving now, it feels like actually he is the sort of profile of player who could work so, so well within this system. But obviously, as I say, the opportunity to buy Florian Wurz, you're not going to pass that up. So I think it kind of goes back to what we maybe said earlier,

At the start, from a business perspective, if you can maybe maximise the profit and the sale of Harvey Elliott, sentimentality aside, he's a big Liverpool fan himself. I think if the opportunity were there to cash in on him, I think that Liverpool would be wise to do so. And Andy, just before we go, changes to the coaching staff. Van Bronckhorst confirmed today.

What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, I mean, it's a ref, someone who's got plenty of reputation in the coaching circles. You know, he's obviously, you know, been very successful as a manager himself in Holland and at Rangers as well. So, yeah, it's a pretty impressive hire to replace Heisinger, who, you know, did a really, really good job. You know, so many people spoke very highly about the role he played last season. So, you know, he's going to, it's a loss that's going to be felt. So, yeah, bringing someone in of Van Bronckhorst, you know, sort of attributes and,

knowledge is I'm sure only going to enhance the coaching staff and I think it's never a bad thing to have someone come in with fresh eyes on things and new ideas and how you know and a different take on things because there can be a case of sometimes where everyone believes you're heading in the right direction it's

sometimes you do need some you know a fresh set of eyes to go what about this what about that and those little tweaks can be really important whether it's a game you know just one game or you know whether it's a little tweak that helps you through a certain month in the season and things like that yeah and then the goalkeeping department has changed as well Xavi Valero has come in from after seven years at West Ham and Fabian Ott who arrived last summer and Cardio Taffarel who has been a you know part of Liverpool's goalkeeping the

department for a long time now have both departed so yeah freshening things up there so you know ideally it'll be it'll improve Liverpool in a certain way and you know as you say fresh eyes new ways of working new styles new insights and information for players so you know hopefully that will only be a benefit to Liverpool moving forwards

Brilliant. Well, I'll tell you what, after talking to you two, I'm even more excited about the season now. Roll on August. We're in July, so we're closing in on it. And that's it from Walk On, your Liverpool podcast brought to you by The Athletic. Thanks to Andy and Mark and you two for listening. We'll be back next week. We'll catch you then. The Athletic FC Podcast Network.

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