Cult of Chiesa & Wirtz the wait?
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The Athletic FC Podcast Network. All right, Reds, Sonny Evans here with Walk On, your Liverpool podcast from The Athletic. I'm here with Simon Hughes and Greg Evans. Today we're talking Chiesa, Harvey Elliott and, of course, Florian Wirtz. But let's start with the three words. Greg, three words for you. You're always prepared, so I expect genius from you.

I wouldn't quite say genius, but we're going to go with Slow News Week. Yeah, rub it in. That really whets the appetite for this podcast, doesn't it? You're never prepared. Let's see what you've got. I am, I am. Vates the record. Vates the record.

Yeah, well, I'm not really sure whether he is, to be fair, but it's just, you've got to use his name, haven't you? Yeah, well, I suppose so, yeah, yeah. Well, that's what Simon and Greg think. And here's what you're saying. Zico Lecco, longest transfer ever. Oh, come on, Zico. I mean, what, with the first week in June? Marcus Pension. Things look promising. Yeah, it's more realistic.

Kyle Miles, that's every penny. Oh, Kyle. And Ray Nash, Tony's three words. I'll give you three, Ray. I'm the boss. I make the rules. It's not for you to tell me to do three words. I'm the man. To join our community of listeners on Facebook, just search Walk On Podcast and join the group.

Well, we'll get to that. But before that, Greg, I noticed Chiesa has been speaking to the Italian papers. He's been quoted as saying, I wouldn't mind staying at Liverpool at all. I mean, I very wouldn't. This is the most comfortable bench on the planet. He only plays 104 minutes to get his Premier League medal. What do you make of that?

I have to admit, when I read the interview from an Italian newspaper, I was almost laughing reading it,

because first we've heard from his father a couple of months ago that he's happy in Liverpool, that he's going to ride it out and look forward to next season, etc. Then Arne Slott, the manager, comes out and says a couple of games before the end of the season. It's all down to Federico next season. You know, he's got the chance to show what he's made of, etc. Let him play his way into my plans. And now Chiesa's come out and said it and...

If there was any player in that entire squad who you think is going to leave, it's Chiesa, isn't it? Because he made one Premier League start last season and that was when the title was already won. And he's the sixth choice attacker right now. And Liverpool are trying to sign more attackers. So I just find it... OK, look, you know, it's...

you can't say I want to go it's been a crap season etc but that's pretty much surely what he must be thinking What do you make of this say? I think unless he does play next season and Liverpool have a plan for him they have to sell him this summer because his value will drop again I think at this moment in time Liverpool

Given that Liverpool are champions, there is an argument to say, well, he couldn't get into the team as well because of the performances of Salah, but you'd still expect him ordinarily to play more minutes and more games. I mean, people talk about games, but with him, they're talking about minutes, which is always a bad sign. So I think Liverpool have to make a decision on him, really. Maybe it's not quite up to him. If they are planning to use him next season, give him a go. But if they're really unsure, as they seem to be,

I think it'd be time to cut him loose really because they probably they might get the money back they might even make a little profit on him given he's still regarded as an Italian international and his stock is still pretty high in Italy and there's probably a few clubs who are willing to take him but if Arne Schlott's decided he's not for me he's got to go I think if we take it back just to the start of the season look Liverpool wanted two players in every position didn't they and you know Schlott wanted that and

It was coming towards the end of the transfer window and they had the option of maybe keeping Ben Doke around or signing another player with a bit of experience. And they looked at the Chiesa deal and they thought, yeah, £10 million, that's a good deal for us. He's still got potential to come in and do well. If not, perhaps we can move him on for a similar amount or, as Si said, maybe even more. So I think...

In isolation, getting him in through the door was fine. It just hasn't worked. The manager sees him every single day in training, so he knows what he's good for. I remember some of the games, you know, that he played in PSV, I think, away. Plymouth away when Liverpool went out of the FA Cup where he gave the ball away 27 times. And the only sort of... 27 times? Yeah, incredible, isn't it? And...

And the only real moment that he had was in the Carabao Cup final where he took his goal really well and you thought perhaps he can actually kick on and play some more minutes and maybe get some more goals, but was never really given the opportunity. Yes, I understand it was really difficult for him trying to dislodge the Premier League's top goal scorer and some of the other attackers that Liverpool have got were in really good form, but no, it just hasn't worked for him and Liverpool need to move him on. So,

He's become a cult figure. Ow, ow, come on, explain to me. Yeah, well, I think it's easily explainable. Liverpool won the league, so any sort of misstep or...

season like Chiesa's had, it sort of, it gets forgiven now. Come on, you contributed more to them winning the league than Chiesa. I'd love to know how I did that, Tony, in your opinion. Well, you didn't. That's the point. So, yeah, I mean, I think it's just merely down to the fact that people can look at the success and think, well,

you know, he comes with a high, you know, very high reputation. Let's not forget a few years ago, he was regarded as one of the most exciting wingers in world football. You know, the Plymouth game Greg mentioned there, he was absolutely dreadful, but it seems like he hasn't caused any problems for the manager in terms of his behavior at the training ground. Or sometimes when a high profile player comes in and he's not playing, he can be become a bit of a problem quite quickly. I don't think that's happened recently.

So it seems like he's conducted himself pretty well. I think people want him to do well, but unfortunately a lot of Liverpool's Italian signs just haven't worked out. I'm not really sure why that is. And if you win the league, all the little things that annoy you tend to annoy you a little bit less, I think. But next season, put it this way, if he's on the fringes and he's still there,

and Liverpool aren't doing quite as well. I don't think people will be sort of serenading him as they seem to be a little bit online. I mean, cult figure, maybe that's a too strong a description perhaps, but yeah, I think there's a willingness there for people wanting him to do well, but he just seems a long, long way off at the moment, doesn't he? I just, I don't see how he gets it back. Look, everyone wants Liverpool players to do well, but Greg,

Wouldn't Andorv make more sense as a cult figure? Yeah, well, I suppose he almost is a cult figure, isn't he, I think. I think with Chiesa, the...

Just going back to Chiesa finally, it's the song, isn't it? You know, it's a great song and it works and the fans love to sing that. So I think that's helped his name almost carry a little bit of momentum. And I think Endo probably deserves a song of similar stature, really, because he's come in and done a job for Liverpool and actually been a lot more useful than Chiesa, albeit in different positions. But he's just not quite as

I suppose, is he, as Keita. That's probably, that's probably, I'm trying to think of a way to, to describe it in a different way, but...

Yeah, no, I mean, it's a valid point. Well, actually, this is a great song because we had an email from Peter out in Berlin. He said, Dear Tony and the Warcon team, I really love the podcast. Thank you, Peter. I visited Liverpool Parades all the way from Germany and had a wonderful time. But one thing that came to mind with the Chiesa song being on everyone's lips.

lips well I love the tune am I the only one uncomfortable with the lines slagging off Juve given the history between the clubs and the Heysel disaster I was born after that so I'm interested in the opinion of someone who remembers the 80s and the 2005 Liverpool Juventus game thoughts well my thoughts yeah I am a little bit uncomfortable with

It's the 14th anniversary of Heysel this year. It was. And so, yeah. I don't like it, actually. I don't think there's any need for that. It's rubbish, isn't it? As simple as that. You know, I just think it's... I don't know. Certainly, people I speak to about Liverpool's relationship with Juventus, it's not one of any sense of antipathy. It's just...

sense of sadness and regret so I don't see why that needs to be dressed in in that way for me if you're gonna have a song about someone you know contribute something more do something you know especially a song that

as I say, got those overtones. He's done nothing. He's got the song and everyone's loving it and everyone's forgotten their history. What does he do? Supporters certainly like it, don't they? Because if they don't, they wouldn't sing it. And, you know, it's a lot of people have spoken about how much they like the song. And yeah, clearly some of the references do not sit nicely with other supporters, but yeah,

Yeah, it's more about making it towards the player, isn't it, rather than thinking about other things. Yeah. Well, I've got to say, I think it's one of the worst songs in our history. Did you know that foreign investors are quietly funding lawsuits in American courts through a practice called third-party litigation funding? Shadowy overseas funders are paying to sue American companies in our courts, and they don't pay a dime in U.S. taxes if there is an award or settlement.

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I think it's just a situation that me and the team on my behalf have to have a conversation about because I'm coming into an age now where I'm 22, I'm going to be 23 next season and I don't really want to be

wasting years of my career because it's a short career you don't know what's going to happen you know. Well another player who's been talking about his future while away with the England under 21s is Hervey Elliott this one's quite a dilemma for Liverpool innit say? Yeah largely because of where he's from I think you know in terms of the quota I think he's also obviously I think he's a very useful player to have I think when he has come on this season he's

he's more often than not added something to the game. I like his enthusiasm. I like the fact that he wants to make things happen. I like the fact he doesn't shy away from, you know, from the ball. He wants to be on the ball. And I just think his attitude, particularly coming off the bench, has always been first rate. I think the problem is, is that I don't think he's quite good enough yet. I'm not sure whether he will be to dislodge the players who are in front of him.

And obviously his value is quite high. I suspect, I think Liverpool could get a good sum of money for him. So yeah, I mean, he's obviously a big Liverpool fan. I get the feeling he really wants to make it work, but you only get one career. And if you're not going to play that much and be on the fringes, and it seems like that's going to be the way, you know, particularly with a player like Florian Wirtz coming in, we're still not quite sure what position he's going to play in.

But he is a competitor for Harvey Elliott, isn't he? So I think he's got a big... I think both have got a big decision to make, really. It's a shame because another player that I would like to see at work, but I just don't think he's quite explosive enough to play in this Liverpool first team. He just lacks that yard of pace. But I think he makes up for that, as I said, with all the things that he offers otherwise.

I don't know. My instinct is Liverpool to pay for it. Obviously, they're going to have to pay for Wirtz. Potentially, Kirkers, they've already bought for him. Pong, they are going to have to sell some players. So to the top three players, potentially, that might go Nunes, Elliott, and then Liverpool have made a strong play of saying Diaz is unavailable. But at his age, with the contract length that he's got, it would be understandable if they did consider him as a potential sale. But then the problem is you've then got to replace him.

But certainly, I'd say Elias and Nunes are the two that Liverpool could make decent money on this summer if they decided to sell him. Greg, James said last week he's a player who could be worth £40-50 million. Do you think it's about seeing what kind of offers they get for him?

Yeah, I think it is because it's hard to imagine a club stumping up that kind of cash for him right now, isn't it? I mean, if you just think off the top of your head, where could he go for that amount of money? Who would pay that? And then for Elliot, who has spoke so passionately about Liverpool being his club,

how much he loves it here even though he's not playing you know it's going to be really difficult for him to leave a title winning team to go to another team and if they're sort of that lowish lowish rank club is that going to appeal to him so it's hard to think where he's going to go first and foremost I'm sure he would have looked at the Jeremy Frimpong arrival and thought well that's another blow for me isn't it because that's another right-sided forward who can compete with Mo Salah and

as Liverpool stress that, you know, Frimpongi's not a light-for-light replacement for Trent Alexander-Arnold. So we'll see how that one evolves. And then, as Si mentioned, you know, Liverpool are trying to sign Florian Wurz and he will be another player who will be ahead of him in the pecking order. So it's hard to see how Elliot, if he stays at Liverpool, is going to get more minutes than he did this season. But at the same time, you would like to see him get those because...

you know, a very energetic player, somebody who loves the club. And he does have that moment of magic. He can come off the bench and change a game. Yeah, so you talked last week about how, I mean, we've talked about buying from a position of strength and selling from a position of strength when you're champions is also a good thing. And we've been critical of Fenway's, Fenway Sports Group players

I was going to say sell them, but actually let them players walk away. So, I mean, in some ways you can see it makes sense. Definitely, Tony, yeah. I mean, Liverpool have their...

I think over the last three or four years, too many players' contracts run down and leave for nothing. Now, somewhere along the line, I think a difficult decision had to be made. I mean, Roberto Firmino, I think, stayed at the club for two years too long, if I'm being honest. You know, you look at, he's a player that they could have made money on. You look at somebody like Fabinho, that is the sort of decision that Liverpool need to be making when they're trying to sell somebody. Now, obviously, there was an element of fortune given the

Saudi Arabian clubs were spending so much money in the summer of 2023. But, you know, some of the decisions might be slightly unpopular. But I could understand it if the club decided, you know, this is the summer that maybe we need to think about Harvey Elliott. As much as I like him as a player and want him to do well, it just might be best for everybody if they could find some sort of place for him to go and play. And it's a good point by you, Greg, because...

Very hard for them to say, well, I'm leaving Liverpool. I'm now going to go and play for Wolverhampton Wanderers. I know he's being talked about as a potential target there where you're not being realistic. You're not competing for trophies. So maybe abroad might be an option. There was a bit of talk about Leverkusen being interested in him. A lot of English players, younger English players are doing well abroad now. But the unfortunate reality is that a lot of the clubs...

We're unable to then pay the sort of fees that English clubs are looking for. That said, you know, I suppose Liverpool might be able to point towards an example of somebody like Joe Bellingham, who's just gone to Borussia Dortmund from having had his entire experience in the championship so far. There might be more of a...

an upsurge you know in in you know potential of him getting higher than that but he's still a relatively young player with with reasonable amounts of experience in the championship but hasn't played premier league football you might be able to be able to say well Drew Bellingham was the same when he went there but the point is you know I think Harvey Ellis has proven that he can play to a very very high standards and affect the game and

It's just maybe he's just not quite right in this Liverpool team in terms of what the manager's looking for. So, yeah, I think that Liverpool this summer is... This is the summer I think that Liverpool have just got to be ambitious with both of the buy-in and the sell-in and be confident with it. Because let's face it, any decision that they make is probably going to be bigger than the one that Trent Alexander-Arnold made to leave, you know, as well. So it sort of feels like they won the league. The pressure... I'm not saying the pressure is off next season because...

The expectation, quite rightly, should be Liverpool go again to try and win the league again. I'm not saying that they will, but they should try. That should be the aim, to win the league again next year. And when you're at the top of the league, when you just become champions...

It's arguably, I mean, it'd be interesting to hear from the sporting director. Is it easier or harder at this stage? What changes when you become a champion in terms of the players' expectations go up in terms of the finances? Or do more players want to join you? Is it an easier argument? I just think you've got to be bold this summer and go for it. I'm sort of finished this

this rebuild which has taken two years but within that within within that rebuild they've sort of they've won the league I think so he's done very well but yeah I think that there's certainly Nunes I mean Nunes has had three years at Liverpool that reality is two managers haven't got the best out of him I think still think they can make some reasonable money they'll make a loss on him I'm absolutely certain of that they really have to push hard to try and get the best fee that they can for him because of the fee that they paid for him but

I think there's still some quite big decisions to come this summer. I think one or two players might leave that fans might say, no, you've got to keep hold of him. But hopefully in the long term, it will prove to be the right decisions. Join us now from Germany. It's a pleasure to welcome our latest Liverpool correspondent, Seb Stafford-Bloor. Welcome back, Seb, to the pod.

Thanks, Tyrone. Thanks for having me. Yeah, I mean, make sure you keep this time slot available every week all the way through until August, the end of August, because undoubtedly we're going to be talking about Florian Wirt, aren't we? Yeah, he's a wonderful player. I think in terms of the transfer, I don't think we'll need too many more time slots to talk about that. I think that will happen relatively quickly. But I think...

You know, I'm imagining some kind of, you know, some sort of corner feature where I just monologue about him every week and everybody's happy about that. Talk about his assists and goals and touches and, you know, I reel off lists of data. And that can be my new thing, my new part in this podcast. Well, yeah, I mean, you're better than the East two anyway. You know, you're more interesting. So anyway, how excited should Liverpool fans be? I mean, they're pretty excited already.

Yeah, yeah. He's a wonderful player. I've said this on a few podcasts, but he's one of the best players I've ever seen live in terms of just what a pleasure it is to watch him play football. Well, yeah, well, well, well, well, that's a big statement because I know I've sat next to you on some occasions and you've seen some serious players over the years. Yeah, Scott Parker, Tom Huddleston, you know, Jake Livermore.

In all seriousness, I think there are two ways of looking at it. First of all, the social media version of world-class player and all that stuff. But then a more traditional viewpoint is just what fun it is to watch someone play football. The basics of it. First touch, vision, movement, attacking ambition, these kind of things. Vietz is right up there, Tony. He's

I mean, I saw a lot of Luka Modric live when he was a younger player before he went to Real Madrid. Similar kind of thing. Like, not similar players, but similar in terms of, you know, the spectacle of watching them take a first touch, be a player with their second. You know, that kind of stuff. He is a marvellous footballer. He really is. And, yeah,

It's strange because obviously he's still only 22, but he feels like he's been around forever in Germany. He's been sort of part of the conversation for a really, really long time. And you know what? It's not even I'm happy for you. I'm jealous. I'm jealous. I'm going to get to watch him every week. Where do you think he'll play, Sam? Yeah, it's a great question. He's a 10. He's a 10 in the sort of the modern sense. He has this tendency to drift out to the left.

to receive possession. And you'll see when the ball's in deep midfield and you're watching him from kind of high up in the stands at Anfield, you'll be able to see just how hard he works to kind of find the little pockets of space in that corridor in front of the penalty box. Always running, always, always, always, never stops. But I think with someone like that, to get the best out of him, he has to be the centre of that department. What's interesting, Si, is when...

when he plays for Germany. So obviously, you know, Germany's favoured front three is Kai Havertz, Florian Wirtz and Jamal Musiala when everybody is fit and available. And whilst Musiala is a little bit more of an ad hoc player, there's a bit more instinct to kind of his attacking play. He'll drift a little bit more to receive possession. Wirtz can kind of get lost there because he has to kind of...

he has to accommodate, he's almost deferential to what Musiala's doing. Whereas at Leverkusen, when everything goes through him, and that's build up against a low block, but also transitions too, he's someone that you want on the ball, on the halfway line, running forward with it. When he's the centre of it, he's so much more impactful. And obviously Dominic Zoboszlai has played that role for Liverpool. You must have seen a fair bit of him in Germany, right?

I mean, he divides opinion, Zabaslai. There's sort of a feeling watching Liverpool that he could contribute more, but I'm sort of conflicted by him because he... I think when he's at his best, he sort of sets the tone for Liverpool. Yeah. But there are certain times where he doesn't do quite enough in just a very technical sense, I would argue, in terms of goals and assists. So...

Do you see that he's obviously going to put pressure on his position in the team unless Arnesloth feels that Zaboszaj could play a bit deeper, which he did on occasion in Leipzig, right? That's right. That's right. The complication, Si, is that

When players come through at RB Leipzig or any of those German clubs who compete at a similar level, it's very forgiving, the analysis of it, because you accept they're young players, they're developing, they're evolving. Also, they tend to be playing... There's no comparison between Liverpool and RB Leipzig in terms of expectation and the standard you have to attain. So the things you talk about, the fact that that consistency of influence isn't quite there, that was the case in RB Leipzig. It's just no one noticed that.

But, and I say this as a huge fan of Stobbeslei.

Vince is a different weight class of player in terms of what he's capable of doing and how influential he's capable of being. So I think if there has to be a tweaking of someone's role, everyone's role gets tweaked when they join a new club. Of course it does. But I don't think you're going to shift Vince to accommodate Sobislai. I think it's going to have to be the other way around. And also, clearly, you spend that kind of money on a player, that's what you're going to need to do because that's where everybody's attention is going to be trained. Yeah, I mean, Craig,

Do you have any worries about adapting to the physicality of the Premier League? Not after listening to Seb. I've got no worries about him whatsoever. I'm really excited to see this. You know, Seb, if it goes wrong, then we're going to come looking for you. This is the thing, Tony. In the modern media world, all attention is good, apparently. So I'm just being provocative. I've just provided some rage bait. Listener numbers will go up. Everybody wins.

Oh, dear me. I mean, Craig, you know, as Seb said, we won't need him all the way to August, although he's always welcome on this show. But, I mean, how quickly do you see this happening? Well, look, you know, clearly the negotiations... I've just given you the hospital pass there, haven't I? Yeah, I mean, literally the worst question to answer right now. But, no, look, the negotiations are ongoing, aren't they? And...

Liverpool are not willing to go to the amount that Leverkusen are asking for right now. So it's going to take a little bit of time. I mean, I do find it quite funny, as James said this time last week, you know, we were, what, two, three weeks into a so-called saga last week. Now, I spoke to the volunteer secretary at Ringman Rovers who negotiated the deal with Liverpool to take Liverpool

as a 16-year-old. And he told me they were negotiating back and forward for sort of two to three weeks non-stop. So if a deal like that, which costs €30,000, takes three weeks, then maybe people could understand why a record signing is going to take a little bit longer. I think Liverpool fans just need to just calm down a little bit, don't they? It's clear that Liverpool want this guy. They don't want to overpay for him.

and the negotiations are ongoing do you think that you know over the over the last few years well five or six years you know liverpool have sort of made a big play of becoming very good at getting deals done on the quiet so the the consequence of that is when they don't happen on the quiet it feels like it's dragged out so in their in their attempt to look good you end up looking bad eventually

It feels that way, doesn't it? And I mean, there are, it's quite unbelievable how supporters are just getting so worked up about this. It's like contract renewals, isn't it? It's like when you make a big play of a contract renewal, it means that when you don't get the next contract renewal, you look worse. So I just think maybe a sense of balance might be. Hey, you know, I've got no sympathy for any of you because I've lived with this. I've lived with Florian Wirtz to Bayern Munich for probably 18 months and

And the kind of the little sort of what we'll call faux updates that have come from the German media every two weeks, every two weeks, drip feed, drip feed, drip feed. And it's been this kind of, it's been like a cold saga, you know, like a war without a war. Like it's just, it's gone on and on and on. And now we've reached a kind of a new stage with it where...

it's the recrimination stage. Why isn't he playing for Bayern Munich? Whose fault is it? Because it must be, it's not like an institutional failing. It must be an individual person's failing within the system. So that's the kind of the mode that, that built Arjen around FC Bayern right now. So it's, you've got, you've got some way to go until you have my sympathy with this. Why do you think he favours Liverpool?

again this is this this sounds like somebody at Bayern or Man City may have made a mistake somewhere along the line but you don't sign for a club unless you really want to go you know ultimately why do you think he thinks that this is the place for me to go and play for the next three or four years I mean it I'm sure he'll talk about the club the history and all those things but there must be a very practical sense you know in terms of how he sees himself fitting into the team and

I suppose the environment of the club. I know you've mentioned a few times about the sort of the

He's been impressed by the facilities and stuff like that, which is very real, isn't it? The lobster pot? He has this in his repertoire. So when Ferran Wirtz was a youth player, he came up through FC Cologne's academy. And there was an agreement in 2001 between clubs in the region, including Cologne, Bristol Munchen Gladbach, and Bayer Leverkusen, don't take each other's young players for the betterment of the region, right? You just don't do it.

Wirtz, at the end of his youth contract at Cologne, made the decision that he was leaving Cologne and he was going to go to Leverkusen. And he's spoken about this in the past. He knew what that would provoke and he knew the kind of columns that would be written about him and that this would follow him around. And it's still a little bit of a sensitive subject all these years later. It's been five years now.

But he made the decision because Leverkusen was a wealthier club with better facilities, yes, but also had a coach in Peter Bosz who played attacking football who suited his game.

Also saw, and this was a decision that as with every decision made in his career was made with his mother, with his father, and with input from his family members too. This is my route to the next stage of my career. And those decisions, I haven't spoken to anybody personally.

about why this decision has been made so I'm not going to speculate but it wouldn't surprise me if it's the same thing if it's a dispassionate this is the road forward this is the best fit for me it doesn't matter if people at Biome Unit get upset about it I think there are some people who are complicit in that I think Biome Unit's vision for what he could be in their side was a little bit vague by all accounts for him remember what I said about his dynamic with Marciala with

with the German national team everybody wants that at Bayern but they want it in the sense of like you know the kid that wants the shiny toy and then wants the other shiny toy too it's like the best one the best German players should play for Bayern Munich regardless of whether it really works that well and I don't think either Marziala or or Wirtz plays their best football for the German national team yet and

And so he sees a place where huge club, Liverpool is a big club in Germany for obvious reasons. Particularly recently, there was a lot of attention paid to what Jurgen Klopp did at the club. But then going back further, of course, Keegan, there's that connection too. People understand the scale of the football club. And he sees...

stage to be on, the Premier League. He's already won the Bundesliga, remember? And that's a bit different for a lot of German players because ordinarily your route to winning a Bundesliga or a Pokal would be via Bayern Munich because there's the hegemony. And Wirtz is in an unusual situation of kind of, in a sense, having completed German domestic football already. He has won an undefeated domestic double. There is nothing left to do. And so presumably,

and this is me guessing again, he looks at who is more likely to take me to a Champions League final. Who can I win a Ballon d'Or with? The answer is Liverpool, and I completely agree with that. I think it's the better option for him. It makes perfect sense. If you forget that he's a German and that he grew up in the Rhineland, no one will question it at all because it's that clear cut at the moment. Bayern is going through transition and will be doing so for the next couple of years. It's still slightly awkward transition

caught between the last era and the next one and they're still building Liverpool are loaded like you could imagine and I'm not trying to put words in anybody's mouth here or trying to give you false hope but I can fully imagine Liverpool winning the Champions League next season with the players that they're signing the strength is so overwhelming and for Wirtz the chance to play with Salah for instance that's just

you don't get that opportunity very often and you know a rock solid defence a great goalkeeper you've got a few issues at centre forward except that but what a great team to be part of what a great group and yeah chuck in the facilities point you made Sy because I think that's really relevant well there you have it Seb Stafford Bloor

Wauhans Germany correspondent said Liverpool will win the Champions League next year Seb you can come on every week we want to hear stuff like this you know what and if we don't we'll hold you responsible I won't come back I will refuse to appear if it doesn't go well thank you for coming on and giving us that update always a pleasure always a pleasure

Did you know that foreign investors are quietly funding lawsuits in American courts through a practice called third-party litigation funding? Shadowy overseas funders are paying to sue American companies in our courts, and they don't pay a dime in U.S. taxes if there is an award or settlement. They profit tax-free from our legal system, while U.S. companies are tied up in court and American families pay the price to the tune of $5,000 a year. But

But there is a solution. A new proposal before Congress would close this loophole and ensure these foreign investors pay taxes, just like the actual plaintiffs have to.

So...

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Welcome to It Takes Energy, presented by Energy Transfer, where we talk all things oil and natural gas. Oil and gas drive our economy, ensure our country's security, and open pathways to brighter futures. What do you know about oil and natural gas? You likely associate them with running your car or heating your home. But these two natural resources fuel so much more than that. More than 6,000 consumer products that we rely on every day are made using oil and gas.

Before you even step out the door in the morning, you've already used more products made possible because of oil and gas than you realize. From the toothpaste you brush your teeth with, the soap you washed your face with, and the sheets you slept on. Not to mention your makeup, contact lenses, clothes, and shoes. Oil and gas are vital parts of all these products and so many more.

Look around and you'll see the essential role oil and gas plays in our lives. Our world needs oil and gas and people rely on us to deliver it. To learn more, visit energytransfer.com. Well, before we go, it's time to delve into the mailbag and see what correspondence we have. Remember, if you want to get in touch with us, the summer's a great time to do that. I mean, let's face it.

We need help with the content. If we have to rely on Simon Hughes, we're in trouble, aren't we? Anyway, just email walkonattheathletic.com. And that's exactly what Andrew has done. He says, OK, lads, I have a new conspiracy theory.

So we like conspiracy theories as we hate them. No, we like this one. I think Liverpool are signing players based on how good the name sounds and the Scouse accents. Think about it. Jeremy Frimpong, Florian Wurz, Milos Kerkas, Ryan Gravenberg, Alexis McAllister, Federico Chiesa, and they also improve, Cosi Gakpo.

All absolutely delicious sounds and from a proper scouter. Not me, to be fair, and from Ellesmere Port. Oh, that's all right. We'll louse some with a light in, don't we? Sorry. It's almost Basque, isn't it? X and Ks. Yeah, yeah. Or Vs. It also explains why Derwin Nunes was preferred over Christopher Nkunku. I mean... Well...

Also, I mean, one of the problems is, you know, and I'm breaking the injunction for forbidding me to pronounce foreign names. If I'm right, based on this criteria alone, who do we reckon are going to sign as a striker or centre-back? Izak's a no-brainer, but obviously not going to happen. What about the deruptions? Sesco? Ekertike? Has he got a point to say? Ekertike? Yeah, his name's being thrown about quite a bit, isn't it?

I think I might be right in saying that the Athletics already reported that he was sort of viewed as potentially an alternative to... No, it's not Wiertz. As Seb said, it's Wiertz, isn't it? So...

I'm not quite sure. But then, but then if, if what Seb is saying is, is accurate, which I'm sure it is, you know, his best position is a 10. It's been a bit of talk all the time playing as a, sort of as a false man, which, which seems quite possible as well, but still leaves that,

that question about the centre forward, doesn't it? Which, Ekateki, as you like to call him, or he should be called, is that player, isn't he? He sort of seems like a player who plays through the middle, drifts left, cuts inside occasionally. So there's still that sort of conundrum, really. But the bottom line is Liverpool won the league without that person, didn't they? I'm not sure, you know, the idea of...

A number nine. I mean, if everybody talks about the number nine, I think they're going to try and, as a lot of clubs do, elite clubs do, it's not about having a player who puts the ball in the back of the net now, is it? The player who plays that position is almost like a connector who brings other players into the equation. Like Roberto Firmino, they need to find another Firmino, don't they, somehow?

Well, I personally like players who put the ball in the back of the net. I do. I'm old-fashioned that way. Yeah, I do. But the game isn't really like that anymore, is it? I mean, maybe Haaland is... He's probably won a few players, isn't he? You would classify as being that figure at the top of the team.

But there aren't many players who are like that now. You get into the team as the centre forward because of the number of goals that they scored, because of the all-round play and their ability to bring goalies into the game. They seem to get more of an edge with the elite sides. Greg?

There's only one question I've got to you on this. Can you read those list of names and the Bromley accents and see how it works? Oh, bloody hell. Well, that would really ruin the podcast, wouldn't it? I'm sure people have heard enough of me. There was one other name, actually, one forward that I thought would fit with a good Scouse accent. I need you or Si to do it, obviously, but Victor Iocaris.

That's a good one, isn't it? I mean, he's certainly been linked to plenty of clubs and he's one of the most

you know, discuss strikers at the moment. Can I just offer my local knowledge here? So the word grok used to refer to anybody who was massive. So he would become Victor Grokerez. There's no doubt about that. Well, that's my suggestion. I think that's better than me reading them out in Brummie anyway. Yeah.

No, you know, promise of great accents. I mean, you know, some of my favourite songs in my going to football over the years have come from fans in Birmingham. I remember...

Birmingham City fans used to sing to the tune of Karma Chameleon by Culture Club. And I'm not going to attempt to pronounce the accent, but come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, you blues. And it sounded brilliant. And like a scouse scum garara brum in a Birmingham accent. It sounded brilliant. Even though I was the scouse scum that he wanted out of Brum. It's like it just sounded great.

And I mean, the Birmingham accent actually is a much maligned one. You know, Liverpool might be the capital city of football, but Birmingham is the capital city of heavy metal. So, you know, I mean, let's give Birmingham credit where it's due.

Well, thanks, Tony. I appreciate that. It's good to get a bit of credit because our accent does get globally slated. So I love your support, mate. You know what? It's a distinctive accent. And in a world that's becoming more and more homogenous, I am all up for Brummie. I 100% agree. I like the Birmingham accents. Yeah, it's pretty damn good, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rather than just this sort of generic...

generic English accent which is undetectable I like I like a strong accent we will all agree with that and that's it for walk on your Liverpool podcast brought to you by the Athletic thanks to Simon and Greg and you too for listening we'll be back with you next week and we'll catch you then The Athletic FC Podcast Network

Did you know that foreign investors are quietly funding lawsuits in American courts through a practice called third-party litigation funding? Shadowy overseas funders are paying to sue American companies in our courts, and they don't pay a dime in U.S. taxes if there is an award or settlement. They profit tax-free from our legal system, while U.S. companies are tied up in court and American families pay the price to the tune of $5,000 a year. But

But there is a solution. A new proposal before Congress would close this loophole and ensure these foreign investors pay taxes, just like the actual plaintiffs have to.

It's a common sense move that discourages frivolous and abusive lawsuits and redirects resources back into American jobs, innovation, and growth. Only President Trump and congressional Republicans can deliver this win for America and hold these foreign investors accountable. Contact your lawmakers today and demand they take a stand to end foreign-funded litigation abuse. For the ones who get it done, the most important part is the one you need now.

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Welcome to It Takes Energy, presented by Energy Transfer, where we talk all things oil and natural gas. Oil and gas drive our economy, ensure our country's security, and open pathways to brighter futures.

When it comes to meeting the world's energy needs, more is better. What we mean is our world needs a wide range of energy sources to meet our increasing needs. Just wind or solar won't get us there, as the sun doesn't always shine and the wind doesn't always blow. With our growing population and the increasing use of energy-demanding technologies like AI, reliability is key.

and the reliability of natural gas is unmatched by wind and solar. That doesn't mean we all can't work together, but natural gas is vital to ensuring we meet our energy needs. Look around, and you'll see the essential role oil and gas plays in our lives. Our world needs oil and gas, and people rely on us to deliver it. To learn more, visit energytransfer.com.