Europe beckons as Liverpool make Paris return
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The Athletic FC Podcast Network. All right, Reds. Tony Evans here with Walk On, your Liverpool podcast from the Athletic. I'm here with James Pearce and Oli Kaye.

Well, Europe takes centre stage this week. We'll be talking about the trip to Paris, what to expect from Paris Saint-Germain, and asking how far can Liverpool go in Europe this season. But first, let's get to your three words. Oli, welcome back to the show. Delighted to have you. You're in Simon Hughes' seat, and I'm sure you're not like that slacker. I'm sure you've got three sizzling words for us. I've got three very evocative words, just...

Paris in springtime. Ah, yeah. Paris in springtime. That was the first place I was ever teaguffed in 1981. You see? City of romance. Yeah, that's how romantic it was for me. That was 1981, was it? 1981, yeah. Mind you, we won. And again, 2022, it's a common theme there. It's not all romance. Yeah.

It's not. James, three words from you. Proper European test. I like it, I like it. And let's see what you're saying. Alan Causer, next game matters. Gary Simpson, clean sheet please. Jed Lunny, stars are aligning. And Herge Bro, bring on PSG. To join our community of listeners on Facebook, just search Walk On Podcast and join the group.

Well, that's a rallying call, James. Bring on PSG. I'm all for that. It is, yeah, yeah. It's a mouth-watering prospect, isn't it, I think. The only shame probably is that this tie is happening in the last 16 when you'd certainly say on current form across Europe...

This is a tie that probably should be in the latter stages of the competition because PSG are flying at the minute, despite they obviously had some issues in the league phase. That was why they ended up as low down as they did. But certainly in the last few months, PSG

things have really clicked for them. And they're absolutely flying domestically in the same way that Liverpool are. And yeah, it's one that absolutely whets the appetite. It's a very different PSG than the one that Liverpool last faced. What was it? Six, seven years ago now. Their whole kind of philosophy as a club has shifted in terms of their investment. But they're

They're a proper unit and looking forward to seeing our Liverpool measure up against them. Oli, what do you make of the draw? Because obviously there were some complaints, some from James, that you win and you end up with PSG, which seems a difficult task. But I mean, I'm of the sort of mindset where you got beaten

the big team. So yeah, whenever, bring them on. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, I can understand Liverpool fans saying, well, how's that fair? We finished first and we got PSG. I think the flip side of it is PSG finished 15th and their, their punishment really is, is that they got Liverpool who finished top of the group. Yeah. Cause they'll be terrified of us, won't they? I'd say Liverpool have been the best, most consistent team in Europe so far this season. So I think it's the draw they would have wanted to avoid and,

clearly of the teams available to Liverpool in that half of the draw, the draw Liverpool wanted to avoid as well. They were the one who were lurking. It could have been Benfica, couldn't it? And that wouldn't have been easy necessarily. But I think the real unfairness with the system is the fact that PSG ended up playing in the group stage. They had Arsenal, Atletico Madrid, Bayern Munich, Man City. I think when you looked at the draw, they had the toughest group stage draw. And obviously they're now...

still paying a price for that because they had to go through the playoffs and now they've got Liverpool. So yeah, it's been harsh on Liverpool in a way, but I think it's been harsher on PSG. I think we can feel confidence as well, James, when we look at Slott's record in knockout football. He took final to the Conference League final. He's done alright in this form of football and obviously in the League Cup with advance, so...

It's not like he's going to be inexperienced in this sort of arena. No, no, no, I think you're right. And I think he does love these kind of tactical battles. And I think he will have also really enjoyed the fact that there was a bit of a breather to actually prepare for this one. You know, it felt like a real luxury considering how crazy the schedule has been for a few months now. The fact that, you know, he was able to give all the players two days off after that match.

that game against Newcastle, you know, back in at the Axel on Saturday and a kind of a proper build up to it, which they wouldn't have had if they'd still been in the FA Cup. So, yeah, I think you're right. I think you only have to look at those previous European games and

this season, you know, the way that he's negotiated some proper tests on their travels. And you think of, you know, Leipzig and AC Milan along the way. The only time they come unstuck was PSV. And of course, you know, that was because he fielded the kids in a shadow lineup. So yeah, more often than not, you know, when games like this have come along, he's found the answers. Yeah, Oli, had we have won that last game,

We wouldn't have got PSG, would we? Because it would have changed the dynamics and it would have pushed Eindhoven down. Oh, I see. So, I mean, it's one of those things where you can complain about it, but it's sort of, it is what it is. Yeah, it is. And it's PSG who really are paying a heavy price and obviously they

They're a really good team and they could win, but I think if they're going to get through to the quarterfinals, they're really going to have to do it the hard way because all the teams have played already. No, I mean, to be fair, we've played Real Madrid, Leverkusen, Milan. It's not like a walk in the park for us, is it? No, I totally agree. When the draw was made, there was a thing done of difficulty of the draws various teams faced and...

PSG were felt to have the hardest draw. I think Liverpool had the second or third hardest. So for Liverpool to go to

you know, Milan and beat Real Madrid and beat others. You know, it was a really tough group stage draw and Liverpool did really well. And I think PSG also had a very tough group stage draw and scraped through by coming good in the last three games or so. Funnily enough, I did their game in Munich in, I don't know, it was probably November. And they looked at that time like a really kind of young, technically very good, but slightly wet behind the ears team.

And then I did their game against Man City a few weeks later. And look, we can all come out with the saying of this season. Well, it was only Man City, isn't it? But they were really good that night. They were really, really good young players. Barcola and Etienne Douay and Jean Neves and people like that. It was a really, really, really good performance. And yeah,

I think if this was sort of November, December, earlier in the season, I would have said Liverpool will be very comfortable with this. But I think PSG have really developed over the course of the season, so it's going to be interesting. And you know what? You said, you shot this down before I even said it, but I'm still going to say it. It was only Man City, only Man City. James, the importance of Champions League was shown, wasn't it, by the finances which come out last week, which the headline loss is £57 million.

going a long way changes that it does those accounts that were published obviously for the 23-24 season just as if we didn't know already just laid bare the the the gulf that exists isn't it between being in the Champions League and and being out outside it you know that that that

the headline record pre-tax loss of 57 million was you know the biggest chunk of it was down to the 38 million pound drop in media revenue because you know although Liverpool had a decent run in the Europa League it just doesn't come close and of course that gulf is only getting bigger with the you know the revamped Champions League and the extra games and the prize money available I think you know Greg Evans did a piece for us not long ago did he I think where he was saying you know

Liverpool have already earned in excess of £80m from this run, potentially rise to beyond £10m.

£100 million. So yeah, I think there was a few things in those accounts that kind of jumped out. Probably also the fact that Liverpool ended up paying nearly £10 million out to Jurgen Klopp and his backroom staff in terms of... Why is that? The way it was explained to me was just payments that were due in terms of loyalty payments plus the fact that obviously for a number of those staff...

you know, once Klopp had decided he was going, those with time left on their contracts were still able to negotiate severance packages based on what they know. Not all of them, for example, you know, John Akterberg,

And I think Kornmeier fell into the same category, was out of contract last summer anyway. So that, you know, they didn't get payoffs. But yeah, for the rest of them, because, you know, there was never going to be a situation, was there, where like Krawitz or Linders or Wittel-Matos were going to be kept on as part of the new regime. So yeah, that was probably another kind of headline that jumped out

of it. I suppose the other one would be just how much it costs to run Liverpool on an annual basis when you think the total admin costs have gone up to 600 million, which kind of explains when people say, you know, where's all the money? You know, it's like, well, look at that. Look at the wage bill went up again, despite the fact that Liverpool didn't have Champions League football. And we know that a lot of the contracts are heavily incentivised.

with bonuses, you know, the, with the wage bill still went up from 373 million pounds to 386 million. You know, I think, I think he's gone up some like 86% in the last seven years, the wage bill. So yeah, it's, uh, it, it just shows that, uh,

The importance of that media revenue from being in the Champions League also, commercial revenue just keeps on growing past 300 million for the year for the first time. And that should keep on going because obviously there's the new kit deal with Adidas that will be kicking in this summer. And obviously Liverpool also starting to get a proper return on the investment in the Anfield Road, which I think matchday revenue was up.

22 million over the course of the year. So yeah, I think the big loss kind of probably jumps out at you, but I think that in general, there's good reason to believe the next set of accounts for this season will be a lot rosier. Yeah, Oli, the overall trend is up, isn't it? And I would have thought that Manchester United's demise, certainly globally, offers an opportunity for Liverpool to fill that vacuum. Yeah, it's interesting. I mean...

United have remained a really big commercial powerhouse entity over the last decade as their results on the pitch have been pretty miserable. But they have been in the Champions League probably more or less every other season over that period. They've been nothing like the force they were, but they've always been in the upper reaches of the Premier League, top six, whatever, top eight, maybe in a bad year.

generally in Europe, but next season, what are they going to be? Are they going to be in Europe? I think they have to win the Europa League now if they're going to do that. Their financial appeal has definitely been hit. And look, Liverpool know probably better than anyone that you can go a long time without the success of the past and still remain a big, powerful, hugely popular global club like Liverpool.

Liverpool remained so in the 90s and 2000s. But there must come a point with United where, I mean, look, to be honest, I think their commercial revenue has or did flatline for a period in the 2010s. I think Liverpool and

and Man City in a different way have certainly closed an awful lot of ground on them. But Liverpool's owners and the people in charge of Liverpool should be thinking, well, let's capitalise on this. Let's make Haywireless and shine. Let's race ahead of them like they did in the 90s. And that applies as much on the pitch as off it. Definitely, definitely. MUSIC

James, there's a new release, Clop Farewell video on Amazon Prime. I haven't seen it yet. Have you seen it? I have, yeah. I sat through all four episodes. Is it any good? I think it depends what your expectations are. So that's a resounding no then. That's a resounding no. Well, if you just... Two thumbs down. If you just want to kind of relive the Clop era and watch some nice match footage and...

some archive press conference stuff and a few little nice set piece interviews thrown in.

retelling the highs and the lows, there's probably something in it for you. I think if you're sitting down watching it, expecting proper fly on the wall, peek behind the curtain, team talks, dressing room stuff, then you're going to be disappointed. Yeah, I think when you watch it, you can see how they've obviously had to pivot from initially thinking they did the jackpot when they were kind of embedded

before Klopp announced he was going. And then, of course, they thought it was going to be the fairy tale finale. And then when that doesn't happen, it pivots and becomes four episodes, I think, rather than eight it was going to be initially. And it's about the Klopp reign as a whole.

So yeah, it's thin pickings at times. I mean, for a start, the only players who kind of allow the cameras to follow them away from the axer are Harvey Elliott, Curtis Jones and Jaden Dans, which gives you some idea about kind of the limits of it.

The best bit is the emotional stuff at the end, the final days of the clock rain and some of the filming with him. But yeah, when you've got Pep Linders on camera talking about how upset he was when Conor Bradley was loaned out to Bolton Wanderers...

and you think how on earth is that making it into a compilation when you've been behind the scenes for six months and the only time you get any proper kind of insight with the coaches all together in the coaches room is when they're watching the Europa League when Liverpool are drawn against Sparta Prague and I've got to be honest I'd forgotten Liverpool even played Sparta Prague last season that's how all

unimportant it felt but then there they are as if like everyone's on tender hooks who we're gonna get

in what was that probably the last 16 of the Europa League or whatever so yeah underwhelming would probably be the word. Have you seen the Zoli? No I've had this conversation with a couple of mates recently where they made me realise I was talking about various football documentaries and as a journalist and like James was sent the access to the preview last week and

And I think as a journalist, you're watching it and you're thinking, what's revelatory? What can we tell our readers is revelatory in this? And I think we're the worst people in the world to judge them because they're not really aimed at people who are covering the team week in, week out or day in, day out. They're generally there to entertain and perhaps even to appeal to a new audience. But I have to say that what I've heard of the Klopp documentary, not

not only from James but from just regular fans who came at it probably more enthusiastically is that it didn't need to be done that kind of thing and it would have been it would have been incredible if it had been what all Liverpool fans hoped it was going to be this time this time last year the finale glorious finale whether it was a

A double, a treble, quadruple, whatever. But I think by the time the season ended, I thought, well, there's not really going to be a great deal of appetite for that. But one other thing I'd say is that if slot had not done so brilliantly, and if this season was even, say there were six points behind Arsenal or 10 points behind Arsenal, or this season was going, it was a reasonable...

in the transition and Slott had come in and was getting his feet under the table. If he hadn't blown the rest of the Premier League away, I think the appetite for a Klopp documentary would have been enormous and also quite unhealthy. The fact that it really seems to have made a great impact at all in terms of, I've seen a great deal about it on social media. I think the appetite is less than people would have expected. I think that's largely because

on a slot and the players have made sure people aren't missing them in the way they expected to. I think that's a good point. I think that the present is so exciting that nobody's really in the mood to suddenly...

I think if Liverpool were eighth you'd be like going oh quite fancy a trip down memory lane just to like lift spirits but it's like and also it feels like so it's like so soon after the Klopp era as well like yeah I I don't know but yeah yeah I think Oli's spot on I think it's not it's probably not made for people like us I think there'll be I think there'll be a lot of fans who have

become interested in Premier League football around the world and interested in Liverpool in particular who will probably enjoy it. Yeah, I mean, in the pantheon

of Liverpool documentaries, being Liverpool is obviously the ultimate. You need to improve your attitude. You say steady to me again, when I say something to you, you'll be on the first plane back. I mean, has there ever been a more cringe-worthy football? Maybe the Sunderland one was... The Sunderland one. I love the Sunderland one. Absolutely brilliant. Yeah. I mean, it's cringing...

you know, you're cringing at some of the what's going on, but it as, as a kind of real warts and all thing is, is brilliant. And, um, it made me empathize, probably sympathize a lot more with the Sunderland fans than, than I already did. Um,

And I was thinking, wouldn't it be good if there were cameras there to capture their rather more impressive season this season? But I think the cameras are a bit of a jinx, aren't they? Yeah, well, I think on your advice, James, I will give that a swerve. Get in touch with the show. Remember, you can email us your questions, thoughts and voice notes. Just fire them over to walkonattheathletic.com.

Whether it's about transfers, team selection, or James' dietary habits, just email walkonattheathletic.com. Well, you know, sort of Paris, James, Shirley, that's bucket list for foodies like yourself. I've already penciled in lunch tomorrow a croque monsieur. Just to kick things off. That doesn't sound very high-end to me. No, it's a ham and cheese sandwich.

Yeah, that's what I thought. Oh, he's got to do better than that, hasn't he? He has, yeah, yeah. But, you know, you're a journalist. You're there to work. Oh, don't give me that. Don't give me that. I'll barely have time to eat. Absolutely, absolutely. Because he's at the coalface of creativism. Yes, all day. Absolutely. But, no, the days as a journalist, the days of long, boozy lunches in foreign cities on expenses...

I think they belong to a previous generation. I think our generation and the journalists younger than us are certainly paying the prices for the boozy excesses of previous generations. It's time to take a meet! LAUGHTER

It seemed like it. No. Because you know what? I'll hunt you down. Yeah, yeah. I have it in mind that we're the same generation. Well, let's be serious about Paris, James. First return since the Champions League final, and that was an extremely harrowing experience for those who made the journey, but the entire fan base. What's changed? Has anything changed? Because as I said at the top of the show...

The first time I was in Paris for football, I was tear gassed. The CRS, the paramilitary police, have an extremely aggressive form of crowd control in my experience. And let's put it into perspective. Or so I...

where the Parc des Princes is very different to Saint-Denis. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, to answer you, the honest answer is I don't know how things have changed regarding... You're about to find out. Yeah, yeah, we'll see, won't we, in terms of what the policing and stewarding is like. I mean, of course, it's a very different scenario, more than anything, different stadium, different area, Saint-Denis,

It's got a lot of problems. As you said, Tony, where the Parc des Princes is, it's a completely different type of area in the southwest of Paris. And of course, there'll be the number of Liverpool fans travelling will be so different compared to, you know, the Champions League final of 2022 compared to this one. Although, you know, me and Simon Hughes have been doing a piece on

speaking to various fans and there's a lot of people we know between us who usually go away, who won't go back to Paris, you know, despite, you know, the fact that it is a different stadium, different type of occasion, just completely put off for life from, you know, the harrowing experiences of 2022. And I'm not surprised to be honest. I've not been back to Paris since then and had absolutely no desire to,

to during that that period because it was just absolutely horrific being outside the ground and being involved in that crush before the game so um aside from obviously wanting things to go well on the pitch you know I think what you know really really hope that I'm not find myself writing about you know horrific experiences for traveling supporters again because nobody

nobody wants a repeat of what happened last time. Yeah, Oli, for all the reasons that James stated, the Champions League final was so very different and they also had a ready-made excuse in that was moved from St. Petersburg at a fairly late stage. But even so...

Paris can be a difficult place for travelling fans. Yeah, it can be. I mean, as you said, of 1981, I mean, I've been in France and as with Italy, as with Spain, where an English team is playing there and the fans get treated horrendously, whether it's sort of herded like cattle or getting...

for no good reason at all or for no reason. What staggered me and appalled me because I was there as well and I was caught up in that

crash outside the Stade de France three years ago, nearly three years ago. What appalled me was the reaction of the authorities, not just in regurgitating lies and complete falsehoods about the number of tickets and number of fake tickets. Never seen that before, have we? No, it's appalling. It's absolutely appalling.

but it was also the attempt to justify everything. I felt people should have, you know, heads should have rolled. People should have resigned over that. Not just the handling of the day itself, but over the, um, the fallout and the way people spoke. But, you know, sports minister and interior minister and head of police and so on, you know, they were all fine. It was as if, as if what they said didn't matter at all because it was, it was only about football fans in England. And, and I think, um,

They didn't really seem to face any accountability for that. But more seriously, people could have died. It was an incredibly harrowing experience and the consequences could have been so much worse. Yeah, well, thankfully, it didn't turn into a significant disaster. But James, do you think... And it's one of those questions. I'm giving you a question that you can't really answer here. Another one? I'm going to do it anyway. Anyway.

Do you think the authorities will be a little bit wary of Liverpool fans, a little bit wary of anything going wrong and they'll say to the police force and the civil authorities, you know, let's just take a softly, softly approach? I hope so. You'd like to think so. I think from...

From going on these trips in the last few years, what you see time and time again is when football fans are treated with respect, you tend to get a lot of respect coming back the other way. And it was absolutely chaotic and shambolic what happened around that final in 2022. So yeah, you'd like to think that would make them even more careful, more vigilant, aware that so many eyes will be on football

Paris and, you know, the organisation this time around because, you know, it took nearly a year, didn't it? I think it was that independent report after the final before, you know, you actually had Alexander Seferin actually apologising to Liverpool fans and that independent report, you know, making it abundantly clear what we all knew on the night was that UEFA and the French authorities bore all the responsibility for

for that. And it was a miracle, really, the fact that no one, no one lost their life because there, you know, there was just, you know, so many horrendous things in terms of both before the game and afterwards. And I was speaking to yesterday, actually, to a Liverpool fan called Danny Smith, who he'd gone to the game with his teenage son, who was 13 at the time and, you know, attacked by one of those gangs that were operating outside the stadium and

Not long after the final whistle and, you know, he's not been able to go back to work since. You know, we're talking about, you know, we're getting on for three years, aren't we, after that final. You know, he worked in a car seat production factory. You know, he's had numerous operations on his knee because he was attacked with hammers that essentially, like, demolished his kneecap.

And, you know, Liverpool, he's really grateful for everything Liverpool had done for him. They paid for all of his physio to help him, you know, get back on his feet. And he's still a season ticket holder at Anfield, but, you know, it massively takes it out of him. And, you know, he said him and his son made a promise to each other. They wouldn't even step foot in France again, let alone Paris. So, yeah, the impact of that night on people's lives is huge.

is still going on and on, especially for people like Danny, because he was one of those ones. He was actually a teenager in the Leppins Lane end at Hillsborough in 1989. So, you know, he said as much as the physical pain has kind of been tough to deal with, he said it's actually even worse has been the trauma and the mental side of things with bringing everything back from, from Hillsborough. So,

It just shouldn't have happened, should it? It was an absolute disgrace that it did. And yeah, let's just hope that this week passes without anything even close to what we saw back there. Yeah, Paris, France and UEFA, we will be watching them. We will hold you accountable.

Well, we're joined by Tom Williams, the Athletic's French football writer, to talk about PSG and what we can expect. Hiya, Tom. Welcome to the show. Hi, Tony. Thanks for having me on. Brilliant, brilliant. Well, Lewis and Rike is into a second season in charge of PSG. Erm...

And at this time of year, they kind of flatter to deceive a little bit, particularly in Europe. What can we expect? I think the feeling in Paris, the hope in Paris at least, is that this team have kind of shrugged off some of the issues that have plagued previous PSG teams, that this is a younger, hungrier iteration of PSG who won't be quite as susceptible to the kind of

complete and utter meltdowns that we've seen from them in the Champions League so many times over the years. Tom, Tom, that's not what we want to hear. That is not what we want to hear. That was Sam Williams, the athletic French football writer, and he is not an expert. He is not an expert. No, no, carry on, Tom. Carry on, Tom. No, but I mean, I think if this tie had been played before Christmas, I think most PSG fans and most French football observers would have shrugged their shoulders and thought, well, that's PSG out because...

Right up until the game against Manchester City at the end of the league phase, which was actually towards the end of January, PSG were, as you say, flattering to deceive an awful lot. And one of the big problems they had in the first part of the season was that they would very frequently dominate their matches and

but they wouldn't score enough goals. And, you know, Luis Enrique kept on saying that he was confident things would fall into place, but the weeks went on and you weren't really seeing a huge amount of evolution in terms of the quality of PSG's football. And it was hard to know whether things were actually going to, you know, were actually going to pan out as he was hoping. And since that Manchester City game, they've been exceptional. And they've won the last 10 games in all competitions. They've scored 40 goals in those 10 games. And okay, you know, who have they beaten? They've beaten an A

an ailing Manchester City team. They've beaten some of the bigger clubs in France. They've also thrashed the odd Minnow. But the talk in France these last few weeks has been about whether this is potentially the best version of PSG that we've ever seen, which I think says an awful lot about the kind of form they're in.

That being said, this is a team whose Champions League record historically, certainly in the knockout rounds, is pretty terrible when it comes to these big head-to-heads. So on the one hand, there's a degree of optimism. There's a real sense of momentum behind PSG. But at the same time, there have been times when PSG have gone into ties like this in great form. And generally speaking, things haven't tended to work out very well for them. Yeah. Tom, who should we worry about?

I mean, I think the forward line is probably the first thing that catches the eye. I mean, when Kylian Mbappe left last summer, PSG decided not to

not to sign a direct replacement. And Luis Enrique said, well, look, Kylian Mbappé scored 40, 45 goals a season. We don't have a player like that. But what we need is for Ousmane Dembele to score, you know, 20 goals. Maybe Bradley Barcola can score 15 goals. Maybe Gonzalo Ramos can score a few goals off the bench. If everyone chips in, then it'll work. And over the first half of the season, that's not what was happening. It was like, well, there's a massive Mbappé-shaped hole in this team.

And then again, kind of going back to that Man City game, perhaps a little bit before, Dembele, who is now playing as a false nine most of the time, has suddenly transformed into this impossibly prolific goal scorer. I think he's got 26 goals in all competitions so far this season. Miles better than anything he's ever done before. Bradley Bacola has had a fantastic season. The 0-2-A took a couple of months to find his feet after...

leaving Rennes last summer he's been in great form of course we've got Krzysztof Garczewski who Liverpool fans know a lot about as well not sure if he'll start but obviously a very talented player as well and then in midfield huge amount of industry Vitinha, Joan Neves Fabian Ruiz

you know they never really stopped running and I think that's a big change with PSG this sense that you have a team that works hard from the start to the end you haven't got superstar forwards like Neymar, Messi and Mbappe you know not putting in a shift you haven't got players you just kind of give up when they lose the ball you haven't got a team that really takes their foot off the pedal with 20 minutes half an hour to go they carry on working and trying to score goals right until the end

hmm that's interesting interesting james we mentioned the dembele that uh brings up some memories doesn't it from 2019 it does yeah yeah i was in the new camp that night when you kind of thought well this is the final nail in the coffin as as he ran through and could have squared it for for lionel messi to just knock it into an empty net four nil tie absolutely done and dusted and

Made an absolute hash of it, didn't he? And I remember Messi's absolutely raging reaction. And of course, at the time, you thought, well, it's just like a little side note. It's not going to be particularly important. Yeah, he played a little part, didn't he, in Liverpool's European history. But as Tom said, his numbers are crazy, isn't it? I mean, Tom, do you think, is it the positional switch? Is that what's changed for him this time around? Because he's...

bit of an enigma previously and everything now seems to have clicked. Yeah I think so I mean I think a lot of it is is that playing through the middle is just putting him in in better goal scoring positions I think one of his issues was that you

you know he's typically played on the right in his career and he'd kind of cut inside he'd beat a couple of players I mean you know he's an incredible dribber of the ball and he'd arrive in front of goal and there'd be a bit of panic or he'd be a little bit knackered because of the work he'd had to do to get there whereas now he's generally you know he's running onto a cross he's running onto a through ball he's only got the goalkeeper to beat I think he's clearly worked on his finishing he seems a bit

calmer there's more variety to his finishing he's the kind of player who would just routinely try and hammer the ball as if that was the only way to kind of handle the stress of being in a goal scoring position whereas now there's a bit more there's

there's a bit more versatility to his finishing. Um, and he's also playing in a team that creates an awful lot of chances. You know, I talked about that midfield and how industrious they are. You know, Jean Nevis has got a lot of assists this season. Um, you know, the wide players, Bakula, Douay, uh, Kvaros Galea, um, who's, who seems to be finding his feet gradually. Um,

this is a team that in domestic matches at least tends to dominate the ball and when you are the number one goal scorer in a team like that you are going to find yourself in good goal scoring positions and I think what has happened with Dembele is that he's kind of the pennies sort of dropped in terms of realising the kind of calmness you need in front of goal to become a kind of 20-25 goal a season player whereas previously he's been you know kind of 10-15 goals a season at best

Can we send Nunes over to have a conversation with him? Anyway, Oli, I mean, Tom mentioned the midfields and the relentless. You saw them against Man City. How do you think they'll match up with our central three? It's interesting because they play as more of a three, whereas Liverpool most of the season it's been 4-2-3-1 and Soboslai's been a bit further ahead, so...

Although Subberslide does an awful lot of work, those two, generally Gravenberg and McAllister, have had to do an awful lot of work defensively themselves. Whereas the PSG is more of a three. They really do control the ball very well. They totally overran Man City. And I know a number of teams have done that this season, but I would say the PSG performance, certainly the second half,

of that game, that is, I think, the most I've seen Man City overrun this season. Even more than Plymouth in the first half on Saturday. Even more than the two Liverpool games. They were seriously, seriously good that second half. The midfield, their forwards. And I think it's a real test, real, real test for Liverpool because it's, you know, sometimes you play

a good team at an advantageous time where they're not particularly in great nick. It feels like PSG are in their best spell of the season. A lot of players playing really well. Yeah, I think it's going to be fascinating. Tom, what impact do you think the second leg is and feels will have?

I think it had a big impact. I mean, like all visiting teams who find themselves playing at Anfield in a second leg, I think there's a feeling that if PSG haven't got some kind of advantage to defend going into that second leg...

It's going to be very difficult for them to turn things around. There's an interview in the Keep this morning with Mamadou Sakho, who's obviously played at PSG and at Liverpool. And he said that when you turn up at Anfield for a big game, Liverpool's players play like Popeye having just opened a can of spinach. That there's, you know, that kind of something extra. And...

Yeah, I think as much as PSG have been impressive, the thought of this very, you know, still very young, quite callow team going into the kind of, you know, the furnace of Anfield, it would be a massive, massive challenge for them. So, yeah,

Yeah, I think PSG are conscious that I think to stand any chance, they probably need to win the first leg. They certainly need to have some kind of advantage to defend. I don't think it's beyond them to pull out a remarkable performance in either of these matches. I'm sure they'll have periods in both games, depending on how the tie pans out when they're on top. But

But yeah, I think given the way that Anfield tests teams and given the sort of inexperience and the youthfulness of this PSG team, I think the feeling is that if they're going to win the tie, they need to make a really big impact in the first leg. One thing I was just going to say was that I think really underestimated is how lively and loud and partisan the atmosphere is at the Parc des Princes. I think people look at it and think it's...

You know, it's a relatively new club. It's certainly a newly successful club. And it's not one of the, you know, it's Paris, which is not until the last 20 years was never really regarded as a great football city. But the atmosphere there, it's not just some kind of tourist atmosphere. It's really, really loud. Despite the pricing, despite the tourists, despite the running track, you've got a hardcore of really, really loud people.

passionate, partisan, volatile crowds, which I think will make it a really good atmosphere. That should inspire them, I think. James, who will we see out there, do you think? Yeah, I don't think there'll be too many changes to that team that beat Newcastle in the Premier League last week. I think Robertson come back in at left-back, I think, for Simakas.

And then the only real other decision for him is probably who leads the line, because obviously he went with Jota, didn't he, that night. Gagpoglavan, a bit more training time to get fully up to speed after his recent knock. So that's probably the one decision for him. But yeah, everything else is pretty settled, isn't it? And I think Slott will be desperately hoping that there'll be a freshness to Liverpool having had...

that bit of downtime and then a decent preparation for this one, having had such an intensive period in the Premier League the few weeks previously. Well, Europe, here we come. And that's it from Walk On, your Liverpool podcast brought to you by The Athletic. Thanks to James, Oli and Tom for joining me and you for listening. We'll be back on Thursday and we'll talk about what we see in Paris. We'll catch you then. The Athletic FC Podcast Network.