How significant is title number 20?
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We'll look forward to Sunday's Date with Destiny, as well as discussing the significance of moving on to 20 league titles. But first, let's get your three words. Come on, you must have something poetic, beautiful and staring for us today. It's only spares. I like it. James. Thank you, Arsenal. I thought it'd be something like...

I don't know. New York. I can only think of two. Can I just pick up on something, right? It wasn't a holiday. It was a long weekend.

It was, it was, I had, I had, do you know what? Like even, even in the message channel when I was back in work yesterday, one of the editors put James is back from his holidays. I was like, I had four days off. Two of them were bank holidays and one was a normal day off. So James, let's have this right. You fly across the Atlantic to New York city and you,

Do not do any work. Do not classify it as a holiday. Okay. Right. And now I don't want you to get your little violin out, but I, do you know what? I did not even watch a film on the flight out there because I was working the whole way on the flight, finishing the title read that obviously still hasn't seen the light of day because Liverpool haven't mathematically won it yet. So effectively Friday was a day's work.

Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, back in work, Wednesday morning. You raw-dogged the flight. I did, I did. Can we have a listener poll? Listeners, can you message us or email us at walkonattheathletic.com and you tell us your view. Was James on holiday or was James flogging himself to death while he S's way around New York? Because I'll tell you which side I'm coming down on.

All I'm saying is, Tony, judging by his Instagram account, there wasn't much work going on. Oh, he's on Instagram, is he? Anyway, let's move on to more serious subjects. We've heard what Simon and James think, and here's what you're saying for your three words. Jane Stacey and Brian Lavin, and plenty more of you are saying, a perfect result.

Dermot Kirwan, crystal clear now. Dom O'Brien, 90-minute party. And Paul William, imagine being us. Imagine indeed. To join our community of listeners on Facebook, just search Walk On Podcast and join the group. Well, James, come on. That was New York. You watched the game over there. What was it like going into a Liverpool bar in New York when you're like...

I don't know, the King of Anfield? We are mobbed? Was it like the Beatles arriving at JFK? No, I wouldn't say the scenes were particularly similar. No, it was great. It was, yeah, when I watched the game against Leicester in the 11th Street Bar in the East Village, which is where the New York Reds

assemble on match days and yeah, a big thank you to Justin and all the lads there for looking after me and the missus. We had a very pleasant time. It was helped by the fact that from purely selfish reasons, obviously I was absolutely delighted that Arsenal had won at Ipswich because part of me was slightly concerned that

you know, I didn't really want to be celebrating winning the title on the other side of the Atlantic. Is he out himself there as a secret Arsenal fan? Sorry. That strikes me. That's what I'm hearing. That's what I'm hearing. But yeah, I had quite a lot of people come up to me and say, is Tony Evans as absolutely crackers as he seems on the pod? And I said, you should hear the unedited versions of the pod. Yeah.

The other people, one fellow actually gave me a long list of like food and restaurant recommendations. And I had to explain to him that I do only have three meals a day. You lie, you lie. Despite what Tony, he seemed a bit disappointed when I talked him through where we'd at and that we'd been for like sushi the night before. I think he thought I'd be having like a man versus food

cow with like side helpings of everything what was the best meal James go on oh right I got this one Keane's Steakhouse Theodore Roosevelt used to go there for his steak Babe Ruth and Liza Minnelli all the big hitters

And yeah, that was by far and away the best meal I had. And what cut of meat did you have? Do you know what? I actually had the sirloin salad. And it was tremendous. Absolutely. I couldn't. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Sirloin salad? That doesn't make sense to me. Whoa, did you say salad? What do you mean? Because it counteracts it, doesn't it? No, no, no. You are dead to me, James. You are dead to me.

But it was tremendous. Yeah, yeah, great. And even got a little trip into Citi Field to see the Mets beat the Phillies on Monday night. Sounds like a great holiday, James. It was a decent weekend away. The vacation of a lifetime.

Yeah, as a Mets fan, every time I've been over there, they've got beat. They're good this season, apparently. Yeah, they are, yeah. Yeah, there was a real buzz around the place. So, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's some things that obviously they do with the baseball that you think,

I would just love to see the reaction at Anfield if there was a big screen where they constantly put, focused in on people in the crowd and then demanded more noise and had like a, they have like an eight thinnings karaoke. And you think, can you imagine that with like 10 minutes to go for a big screen? You have to vote for which karaoke song you want during the next break in play.

Look, we've already got mighty red. We've gone far enough. We've gone far enough. Anyway, say, you went to Anfield last night. I did. To watch the Arsenal game. I did. What was that like? Very strange. Strange. I mean, I mentioned in the podcast of the day, I was hoping really that everything gets knocked along to Sunday so Liverpool can secure the title at Anfield, you know, in a live moment. But there was a real desire there.

in the pubs and, you know, around Anfield for Palace to beat Arsenal. Now, I was thinking about this, you know, sort of, I wonder why that was the case. And maybe it's just that there's a lot of people locally who can't get into Anfield now, so they don't really care, you know, when it happens. There might be that. But,

But yeah, I was sort of nervously sitting there when Arsenal scored. I thought, that's good. Knocks it along to Sunday. But maybe that's just coming from a position of privilege that Liverpool are so far in advance now. And obviously, fortunately enough, I will be at the ground on Sunday. But yeah, I mean, it was the perfect result in a lot of ways because it reduces any amount of pressure and jeopardy on Liverpool. Obviously, they've still got to get a draw tomorrow.

But it just means that Liverpool can win it in front of their own fans for the first time in a long time, which is obviously something that Liverpool missed out on in 2020. So, yeah, there was quite a lot of people out and about, really. I went to Taggy's Bar where they had a bit of a barbecue once.

dropped in at the King Harry where there was quite a few lads jumping up and down when Mateta scored, which was a great goal, I've got to say. But yeah, it was a satisfactory outcome in the end, I think, from a purely greed point of view, because I think everybody wants that moment, don't they, when the final whistle is blown? It was in many ways the perfect result. I've got to say, James, you know what? I just don't trust Tottenham.

In what way? In what way, Tony? Surely you couldn't ask for a better team coming to Anfield than, I mean, they're so open and they've also still got Europe, haven't they? They've got absolutely... What worries you about Tottenham?

I don't know. They're just, they're untrustworthy. You watch them and you can't rely on them to defend or win. And like, and I can't rely on them to roll over and die for us. I mean, they've made, they've done that. They've made a pretty good habit of doing that so far this season. I know. I know. It's just, it just worries me. You know, it won't worry me when we're 3-0 up after 10 minutes.

But I just, you know, and that might say be one of the reasons that the people in the pubs, you know, they might be thinking like me, just get one. Yeah, I can understand it. I can understand it. I couldn't understand it initially, but then the moral thoughts about it.

I could. I mean, as I said, I mean, who are we to really dictate when we win it? I think you just want that perfect moment. But, you know, if Liverpool had won it last night, in some ways, you know, it would have been great, you know, people spilling onto the streets. You know, there was that sense of anticipation. It wasn't busy around Anfield on the streets, but I'm sure at the final whistle...

you know, similar to five years ago, people would have turned up. I was a bit conflicted by it all in the end, the more I sat there nursing my pint, thinking about what this could all mean. I think immediately I was just thinking, oh, I'm going to have to go and work if the palace has got the victory. And there's Simon just submitting his life, his one long holiday. So, but James, I must admit, I didn't think,

when Palace equalised, I thought, it took me back to 2014 when Palace did for our title challenge. Chris Stample. You know,

Yes, yes. It's, you know, which was a truly disgraceful night. And the more I think about it, you know, we all know how I feel about Brendan Rodgers. I'm like, oh, no. But, I mean, mine did flash back. And it's kind of ironic that they come round again. They're a good team, Palace, aren't they? I thought it was... They are, yeah. It was...

really impressive I must admit I sat down to watch it and especially with you know the early goal for Arsenal and and especially in the context of I couldn't believe that that game was was like obviously uh rescheduled for for like the Wednesday night when they've got an FA Cup semi on Saturday and you thought surely this is just going to be you know an absolute

and walk in the park for Arsenal. But yeah, credit to Glasner. He's done a brilliant job, hasn't he? And they've got some proper players. Mateta. He's had a strange career, Mateta, hasn't he? When I was looking last night, I was thinking, he's so good. And then you look at his career and it's like knocking around in the B team at Lyon for a while. And then he was at Mainz. And he's like a proper kind of late developer, isn't he? And he's 27 now. And Eze is...

absolutely brilliant. You think surely he won't be there next season. So for me, it just kind of, again, it just blows out the water, this pathetic narrative that like is the worst Premier League ever. And, you know, almost this thing that rival fans have been peddling. And you've got a situation there where the 12th best team in the Premier League three days before an FA Cup semi when they're actually resting a few.

have actually gone to the Emirates and not only got a point against the Champions League semi-finalists,

But in the end, probably feel pretty hard done by they didn't win the game because they were the only team that looked like they were going to win it late on. So yeah, as Si said, it was the perfect outcome, really, because it does just now mean a point we'll do on Sunday. And yeah, I know some people said to me yesterday, you know, I don't understand this thing of like, you know, you want to pick when you win it. I just want to win it as soon as possible. So there's zero chance of it happening.

of anything possibly going wrong. But no, I'm very much in the camp of you want to win it on home turf, on your own terms by, you know, the result that you achieve yourself rather than someone else. And I'm sure for Van Dijk and the players, they'll feel the same. I think that was the perfect result for Liverpool.

The bottom line is, you know, Liverpool have enough safety between them and Arsenal to sort of be a little bit more picky about when things happen. I guess if Arsenal are breathing right down the necks, anybody would have taken last night. I mean, it was Palace, a slightly strange team, I think, because I thought they were absolutely brilliant against Fulham a few weeks ago in the FA Cup. But then the form has dipped dramatically again.

to the point where I think they had to give a performance last night, you know, ahead of the FA Cup semi-final to give them a little bit more momentum going into that game at Wembley against Villa because, you know, massive opportunity for Palace to get to an FA Cup final. Villa...

Excellent team, done very well, but ultimately beatable, I would say. But I wouldn't say they were beatable if Palace go in off the back of another bad defeat. They've had a few pastings the last few weeks. But when they're on form, they're a very good side. And like you, Tony, I was thinking about 2014 and that Selhurst Park game, and they always just seemed to be their Palace involved in Liverpool's drama somehow. So, yeah, it was...

It was a strange night full of conflicts, really, in lots of ways. But at least it puts it all on Liverpool now to go and seize it.

It's a pleasure to have Oliver Kaye join us on the pod. Hiya, Ollie, how are you today? Very good, thank you. Well, before we go any further, we've got a listener email I'm going to read here. Andrew Heckman, he says, Thank you, Tony, and whomever is with you on the podcast today. Likely James, unless eaten, playing five-a-side, or on holiday. He might be all pre, actually. Simon, who wrote a book about Salah. Or Andy, Greg, Oliver. You haven't given us any catchphrases for them yet.

I read James' article, Hope Liverpool, and couldn't help reading it in my head in James' voice.

Imagine hearing James's voices in your head. Therapy, therapy, Andrew, therapy. Anyway, I've been enjoying the podcast and Liverpool season very much during the dark and stressful times in America and the world. So much that I've started reading any news article in Tony's voice with incredulity and sarcasm and it livens everything up.

Thank you, and keep up the good work. Here's to number 20 on Sunday. I mean, Andrew, seriously, therapy, weeks, months, years of therapy. You need it. Oh.

There's a lot to unpack there, isn't there? An awful lot to unpack. We might need a spin-off podcast for that one. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, if you want to email us and get the same sort of treatments as we've given Andrew, get in touch at walkonattheathletic.com. Just hang on a sec. So did someone say that Si has written a cellar book? Yeah, haven't you heard? It's called Chase and Cellar. And I'll tell you what, it's been nominated for every award in the history of time. And it'll win the lot. Yes.

Well, you know what, right? I was stopped in a Sainsbury's supermarket where I live the other day by somebody who I wouldn't have identified. I wouldn't have identified as a listener to our podcast. And he did say, you know what's doing my head in about the podcast, Tony, going on about your book.

Did he give a name so he can get my shout-outs? I think he preferred if it didn't, to be fair. Oh, dear, dear, dear. It's not anyone would know, is it?

It might be, actually. Well, anyway, James, you've been to New York. We all know that society takes more holidays than you. And the piece Andrew references on The Athletic now, it's looking at the backgrounds and roots of Liverpool's Dutch contingents. And it's an excellent piece. It's one of the reasons that you should be subscribing to The Athletic. Thanks. Yeah, it was an interesting trip because, obviously,

so many of the influential figures in this uh impending title triumph that you know they were they were shaped in the netherlands and so did a bit of a planes trains and automobiles around the place from amsterdam sitting down with one of ryan gravenberg's first coaches to to

to Zvoller and had a drink with the the guy who gave Arne Slott his first taste of of senior football at um at Zvoller and then from there on down to Eindhoven to to speak to a guy who worked with Cody Gagpo in the PSV academy and then from from there to to Breda where of course you know the Virgil van Dijk spent his his formative years in the um

in the youth ranks, a little junior club just on the outskirts of town there. So it was, yeah, it was a fascinating trip. And yeah, I think what kind of rammed home more than anything was just the sheer pride of the Netherlands in the fact that, you know, this is kind of their glory, you know, certainly how it's viewed there in terms of, it means a lot to them that there is so many influential figures in what Liverpool have achieved. Yeah.

Yeah, another great piece this week on The Athletic is yours, Oli, about...

the significance of Liverpool moving on to 20 league titles you know effectively they have you know when you take into account the goal difference it's one isn't it even before um even before Sunday but yeah your piece is really interesting can you give us a little bit of flavor of it yeah it's about it's about Liverpool moving level with Manchester United on 20 league titles and and so

sort of all the background to that that rivalry and how it when I was growing up and when when all of us were a lot younger um it was it was 18-7 for Liverpool in league titles and that looked completely unassailable in in 1990 and then Manchester United basically over the course of the 90s and 2000s whittled it down overturned it it was 2018 by the time Ferguson left and at that point it was it was probably hard to see where Liverpool's next league title was coming from and

But yeah, now it's going to be 2020. And what I was particularly writing about is, I mean, it's a bit in there about how the various sort of empires that the two clubs have had have kind of crumbled and then risen again. But I think the interesting thing in terms of the here and now is that

I've almost heard nothing about, you know, Liverpool fans aren't singing about it being number 20, not really focusing on United at all. Whereas if I go back, you know, I was covering Man United a lot in the late 2000s and early 2010s, and they were absolutely obsessed with equaling and breaking that record. I mean, the stuff Ferguson said at the time, Gary Neville said at the time, Rooney, Rio Ferdinand said at the time, that it was an absolute obsession. Fans were singing about it nonstop, but,

And I think it's different when they'd come from so far back and so on. But it felt like maybe similar to that listener with your voice and James's voice that Liverpool were very much in United's head at that time. There was a big obsession with turning the tide, whereas...

It feels like it's not even an afterthought at Liverpool. You could argue there was a case for not writing about it at all, but I think it's really interesting. It feels like, obviously, it was Ferguson. It was a manager who had been part of that, who had taken over when United were in Liverpool's shadow. It was personal to him. It was personal to Gary Neville when he was growing up.

Rooney gigs etc whereas I think this Liverpool team is newer it's more modern it's more sort of cosmopolitan in terms of where it's come from but the interesting thing is that the fan base seem far more interested in just celebrating Liverpool rather than worrying about what it means to in the wider context of that rivalry Oli do you reckon that's just because United have been such an irrelevance in recent seasons?

In a sense, but Liverpool were, I mean, not to quite the same extent, but Liverpool were quite irrelevant to United for periods of that time. You know, really real low periods. Liverpool weren't ever finishing the bottom half. It was always, you know, I think eighth was as low as it got. But, you know, there were years without winning a trophy. There was, although Istanbul and the 2006 FA Cup were still fresh in the mind by Liverpool,

Certainly by the time United overtook Liverpool in 2011 and then 2013, you know, Liverpool were a complete mess and there seemed to be no way back. So I think, I don't know, it feels to me like it's Liverpool fans probably went through a period where they were kind of unhealthily obsessed with United and media coverage of United and everything United were doing.

And there was probably a bit of a chip on the shoulder at that point. But I think, I don't know whether it's something that Klopp did or whether it's something that just happened to the fan base organically. But you never hear the fans chanting about United. It doesn't seem like Liverpool constantly comparing themselves to United at all anymore. It's not even in a historical sense. So it's, yeah, I think that's interesting. And that's one of the things that's explored in the article. Yeah.

I think that one of the reasons for this, and I mean, I think it is bubbling away at the back of people's minds, but it's not at the forefront of people's minds. So, for example, last night near Anfield, there was a couple of Manchester chants that went up, but it was almost like humorous. And I think that humor comes from the fact that United aren't a threat anymore.

You know, it wasn't like serious chanting or anything like that or particularly that loud, but it was there. So I think what it stems from is that when you think about United's rise over Liverpool, Liverpool's lowest moments really in that period were

It was right at the beginning, you know, under Souness, when they were actually threatened by relegation at one point. You know, in March time, you know, they were only a couple of points above the drop zone. Now, United aren't threatened by relegation this season, but their lowest moment, arguably, is going to be this season, which is 12 years after they last won the title, which just shows you how far away they are. They're not getting closer. They're getting further away.

And the games, the most competitive game between Liverpool United, certainly at Anfield, since 2016 was this season. I mean, I always felt when Liverpool went to Old Trafford, even in the good years for Man United, Liverpool always had a chance, you know, of getting a draw. They obviously had some good wins there as well. United just don't look like doing that at the moment. They don't seem to have it in them. So,

I think there is a difference in terms of the chronology of the way things have worked, which has contributed to why obviously a lot of people, it's just not there in people's minds, but it is significant and it is definitely worth writing about because, you know, I always remember thinking like around this. So let's, let's, let's face it. 19, 1990, uh,

to 2002 is the time frame that Liverpool and Man United are occupying now in terms of how long it took for Liverpool to get back into a position where they were sort of pushing United a bit further. I think Liverpool were closer at that moment than United are now. You know, United seem much further away. So people say, you know, casually, well, United have to get it right at some point.

I think there's a lot to get right at United. The challenge is different because of the way football is now and the structures around football. But United have proven that money just isn't... It obviously helps, but it doesn't solve all your problems, particularly when lots of other teams have money as well. So at this moment in time, it's not part of the conversation. I don't think after Liverpool do secure the title, people are going to be saying, yes, we're level with them. It might be different when they get...

if they get to 21, for example, because being level, being level is not like maybe something to sing about as much as being ahead. Yeah. I mean, let's face it. I mean, you know, we sing about the champions leagues six times. It was quite interesting because I had a conversation with Danny Murphy, who said one of his favorite goals was against Everton at Goodison. He said, but no one ever asked him about that. He said, when he travels the world, he said, and he's been all over the place.

The first thing anyone ever asks him is the goals he scores against Man United. So it's still there and it's still the rivalry and the obsession. But I think you're right, Oli. It's just now, at the moment, it seems the least important thing about the... Well, not the least important thing. But yeah, maybe the least important thing about the title win. There's also... I mean, it's quite amusing. There's another context to it in terms of most trophies won

So if you include charity Community Shields, this league championship will take Liverpool to 68 trophies, which will take them level with United. This is Man United who have on their investor relations website that they are English football's most successful club. So it will take it to 68-68. And the reason why I mentioned the Charity Shields is that if you take the Charity Shields away, as I think most people think,

would because, you know, it just isn't a major trophy. It's a friendly. It's a friendly. It is. Even Alex Ferguson used to sort of dismiss the idea that it was a trophy worth taking seriously. So if you take them away, it's 51-47 and it will be level in league titles. It will be Liverpool, obviously, three clear in European Cups, clear in League Cups.

clearing UEFA Cups, Super Cups, etc. So United, more FA Cups, more Community Shields and more European Cup Winners' Cup. I think anybody would look at that, those two roles of honour and say, well, Liverpool are the most successful. So I think United are going to have to update that for their shareholders and potential investors in the United States. They've probably got...

But then again, they could win the Europa League in a couple of weeks, couldn't they? So that would be another one on the board for them. But yeah, nobody really includes Community Shields, do they? And it's, you know, in terms of the big two...

the league and the European Cup, Liverpool will no longer be lagging in either of them. Yeah, but I mean, they won't update it because we live in a post-truth world, don't we? But James, you know, you can't deny, even though the frequency of the rivalry is now its most intense now, the 7-0 is still one of the great moments of the Klopp era.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And even when you look back at this season, I think the day when I think people really stood up and took notice of Arna Slott was that win at Old Trafford at the start of September. Yeah.

Because I think, what has it been? Ipswich and Brentford, I think, up to that point. And then, you know, forget how bad United have been for a lot of this season. You go to Old Trafford, a ground where even throughout the Klopp era, Liverpool's record wasn't particularly great there. And demolish them in the way they did that day. You know, that was almost, when you look back to when it went...

you kind of thought, okay, we really could be onto something with this guy. You know, I think it, yeah, of course it's still, it still matters, doesn't it? But it's, yeah, I just think it is a really interesting piece that Ollie's written there because it, yeah, it's, it just hasn't been, certainly, certainly just not popularised

not part of the discussion amongst people I know in terms of the significance of this title triumph. But yeah, I think it probably will be part of the conversation when Liverpool come to face United again next season. Yeah, sorry. I remember when United beat Chelsea in Moscow last

And I was working that night and it was a dreadful, dreadful night. And Oli phoned him from Moscow, he was covering it. And he had to counsel me. He was like, I was so depressed. Well, that was the final Liverpool could have got to as well. They played Chelsea. Did they play Chelsea in the semi, is that right? Yeah, we did, yeah. And Chelsea played, I've got to say, magnificently at Anfield in terms of...

an away performance that was probably one of the best, one that I didn't see coming at the time. But that would, had Liverpool got through, that would have provided an unprecedented moment, wouldn't it, in Moscow? It's all being a gulag now.

Yeah, I know. Almost the year before, the year before was very nearly Liverpool United as well, 2007. Because United played Milan in the semi-final and won the first leg. So you think if those two finals had happened, you know, you could have seen that rivalry becoming even more intense than it has been. Whereas in fact, the last...

few years it seems to have tailed off a bit. Well, that's the funny thing because the periods where the clubs have been strong have not coincided. And that was the closest to it. And, you know, and even so it's still missed. But yeah, I mean, it's...

It's still very, very... On Sunday, I will be texting all my Mancunian friends. And you know, I've got hordes and hordes of Mancunian friends. Thousands. Some of my best friends are, etc. Yeah, yeah. Tony always gives me stick for having made two Evertonians and here he is going on about his Mancunian mates. All right, all right, I'm lying. My Mancunian enemies...

But there will surely be... I mean, Hand It Over Manchester has been sung in the last few weeks, but that's obviously directed at City. Yeah. Or Andy Burnham bringing it in a vehicle. But I would think there'd be a lot of Are You Watching Manchester on Sunday, wouldn't there? Yeah, there will be. As I said, it's there bubbling away in the back of people's minds, but it's not at the forefront. And I think instinctively, you know, that thoughts will...

divert in that direction at some point yeah i i went to the pub um the other night and they had like on two pumps right next to each other two separate beers called manchester bitter like i thought what a we don't wear a parable for our times and i took a picture of it i put it up on social media what was it like tony did you did you have a sample

Both of them were magnificent. Oh, well, there you go. You know, I hate to say good things about anything Mancunian, but both of them were absolutely fabulous. So, yeah, and he tasted all the sweeter for Liverpool's new dominance. Well, let's look forward to Sunday, James. Task is simple. Get a point.

Get three points, score seven against Tottenham. I remember that happening. The best thing that could happen is put the game away as soon as possible. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just can't wait. I can't wait. It's going to be one of those incredible Anfield days. I think, you know, the last time I checked, I think the forecast was decent. Hopefully the sun will be shining and it doesn't get any better, does it? Than...

the back end of April walking into Anfield knowing that you're a point away from being crowned Premier League champions and I was just thinking just then when Si was speaking it's just funny isn't it how things change because if someone had said you know

if someone had said, I don't know, five, six, seven years ago, you know, be like quibbling over, well, you know, I don't really want to win it then. I don't want to win it. Oh, no, let's not win it then. Let's like, let's just win it some other, you know, it's got to be like, it'll be on our own terms. It's like, you know, it obviously is so different to five years ago because of the pandemic. It was just, and you had,

people like Karen Brady saying, just null and void it. We'll just cancel it and start again next season. And it was just like, just get it done. Just, I don't care how it happens, just get it done. And I think there's going to be so much emotion at Anfield on Sunday. And a lot of that will be tied into five years ago, the fact that so many people there

couldn't be there. And that's why that achievement was bittersweet in a way, because it was... I was one of the lucky few that was inside Anfield that night for the trophy lift, but it wasn't... It almost felt like I'm grateful talking about it afterwards, because people would say to me, you were... I must have been amazing. And I was like, but it wasn't, no. It was incredibly underwhelming, because it might have looked good on the telly, but

you still, despite the best attempts, and they did make the best of it in the circumstances with that kind of plinth that was built in the Kop, but it was just such a surreal feeling. And yeah, I think that just, I mean, it would be big enough anyway, wouldn't it? Because it means so much. But I just think that whole element from five years ago just adds an extra layer of emotion to Sunday.

Yeah, without a doubt. And, you know, when you think of all the people who, you know, particularly the pandemic and post-pandemic, who basically were lost since then, who never got the chance to see a full Anfield with the trophy. And, you know, it's, yeah, I think there will be a, with all the joy, there'll be an element of joy

not sadness, but an element of regret for what happened five years ago. And, oh, I don't know. It's hard to articulate, say. Yeah, so I've been thinking about what this all means in a historical context, in terms of what Anfield will witness this Sunday. And the last time that sort of feeling was relevant and visible and palpable at Anfield was

And obviously all the reasons both you, Tony and James have just discussed in relation to 2020, people just didn't get that opportunity. Then you roll it back to 1990. Well, when Liverpool won the league in 1990, it was expected that Liverpool were going to win the league, even after 89 when they lost it to Arsenal. When I speak to people about that 1990, it's in the aftermath of Hillsborough. It doesn't seem to...

It didn't seem to mean that much winning the league because of what has happened 12 months earlier. Because Liverpool was still, you know, a team that was expected to win the league. So,

I actually think, you know, I've done a fair bit of reading about 72-73 when Shankly delivered the title after, you know, many years of going without it and the nervousness around Anfield in a game against Leicester City. There was more riding on that game because Liverpool still could have been caught after that game had the result not gone their way. And I think that's the last time maybe, you know, Anfield will have witnessed this sort of

not in a sense of jeopardy, but this moment of exhilaration, you know, and almost, you know, freedom. So it's a really, really big moment. I mean, going back to your point about COVID, Tony, I do know there are people, you know, who didn't get to see out, see Liverpool lift the trophy in 2020, who sadly passed away before that moment. So yeah, there's a lot of people who might have sort of mixed emotions about

on Sunday if and when Liverpool do clinch it but I think it's a moment that needs to happen you know people just want everybody I speak to it's about the moment that final whistle is blown and Liverpool can say they became champions at Anfield in front of a full house for the first time in a very very long time you know I can't for example I cannot remember 1990 I I

You know, I'm 41 now. I can't... You're only 41! I can't say I've ever experienced this. Sorry, James. We don't all gin. Some paper around that. Paper around a Mordor. It's because you don't get enough holidays. Yeah, don't get enough rest, James. You only get lonely. It's all that sun damage on his face. That's just aged him, all those trips.

But yeah, I've never had this, you know, I've never experienced it. And for everybody, I suppose, maybe just below, well, below me, haven't experienced it as well. So there's a lot of people who experience something for the first time. Yeah, I mean, I've seen a lot of titles sealed over the years. I'll have to count them up, actually. But, you know, often in very, very different circumstances. Yeah.

And, to be honest, we had a sense of entitlement for many of them. I mean, I remember in 82 when we beat Tottenham. If we beat Tottenham to winners or even draw with Tottenham to winner, it'll be the third time we've won the title of Anfield against Tottenham. But I remember Graeme Souness coming out with the old Football League trophy

and just throwing it in the air to Ronnie Whelan, who nearly died when this precious old trophy flew towards him. You know, so there was that swagger and we've won the league. I mean, that's something that we won't see this time because obviously we're not winning it on a regular basis. But James, what should we expect for the team?

I think it will be similar to what we saw at Leicester last weekend. You'd imagine Trent Alexander-Arnold after his heroics off the bench with another week under his belt training-wise may well come in for Bradley at right back. I think despite what everyone expects over his future, I think slot from everything he's said up to this point

It doesn't seem as if he's going to be influenced at all by any thoughts about that because I think more than anything, just because he talked himself, didn't he, after the Leicester game about how impeccable Alexander-Arnold's attitude and application has remained throughout...

So, you know, that's one. I think, you know, the midfield three seem pretty settled, don't they? And, you know, probably Curtis Jones would be the only one who could potentially force his way into that. And again, I don't really see, you know, the front line changing much. Maybe, I suppose it's just a toss up between Jota or Diaz, I think, for...

for that number nine spot and I know there was some talk in Portugal earlier on in the week that basically if Darwin Nunes starts another game this season that would trigger a clause that meant that Liverpool would have to pay Benfica another 5 million euros which is

may well be the case but I think I think what we what is absolutely not you know beyond doubt is that the only reason that Darwin Nunes is not getting picked is is on form and on the basis of of what he served up certainly in in recent months unfortunately so um so yeah you know the idea that slot would be told who he can and can't pick is is nonsensical but it's um

Yeah, I'd be surprised if we saw Darwin in the starting lineup. And yeah, I can't wait for it. I just got, I promised I'd give a mention to a mate of mine, Peter Clarkson, who listens to the podcast. He was, me and him,

well, we started going to the games regularly together when we started at university in 1996. And all my kind of first European aways were with him. And of course, he's never seen Liverpool win the title inside Anfield, been a season ticket holder for probably the best part of 30 years. And he's at a wedding on Sunday. And he's been... Sure.

Sorry, it shouldn't laugh, that's me. Is it a good friend? He is a good friend. So the reason you've mentioned him is Samoakim. It's his godson. And I've given him various scenarios where he

you know, potentially could just cause enough offense to get him off the guest list, but, but like not too much offense to cause like a serious rift in the family. But he hasn't taken me up on the, the ideas at the moment. I'm coming up with more elaborate ideas to try and help him out. I mean, I know it's a one 30 wedding near Middlesbrough. He, he did. He he's been looking into how much it would cost to get a helicopter. Yeah.

which would basically clear out his life savings i think but he's he's now had to abandon that idea um but yeah on your wages james you could afford it i told him i just put it on the expenses but yeah so i do i do i mean my second obviously once i felt his pain i the next question was obviously who's having your ticket

Like, is that still up for grabs? I know plenty of takers, but... Who's he giving it to, James? Oh, no, he's already... Yeah, it had already been promised to someone else, unfortunately. But yeah, so I... The worst thing is, he actually said to me in about October, November...

I just know it. I just know we're going to end up winning the title at home to Tottenham. And obviously he was like, because I've got this wedding and it's my godson. I'm really close to him. I can't get out of it.

You know, and obviously I was like, don't be stupid. I said, for a start, they haven't done the TV games for that month. I was like, you know, it could be Saturday at 1230. It could be Monday night. Like, you'll be fine. And he was like, no, no, I just know it's going to be Sunday afternoon. I was like, nah, stop being like all doom and gloom. It'll be fine. Like, you know, we're not going to win the title that far in advance. And then sure enough, the worst fears have come home to roost.

A wedding in Middlesbrough. I mean, of all places. I mean. I do like the way James, in his attempt to show sympathy, is actually just blatantly laughing at him. We're all laughing at him. You know, now an international audience is able to mock him. You know what, though? I had an ear miss with this because my wife booked to go to the theatre in London several months ago.

knowing full well that the game against Tottenham was originally scheduled for Saturday. So had it been Saturday, I'd have been with the kids this weekend. No way out.

But anyway, it's worked out fine for me. You would have found a way out. Yeah, I don't know. Anyway, that's it for Walk On, your Liverpool podcast brought to you by The Athletic. Thanks to James, Simon and Oli for joining me and you too for listening. Well, people, have a brilliant Sunday and we'll be back next week, hopefully with a title in our hands. The Athletic FC Podcast Network.