Kerkez and Diaz latest and other imminent ins and outs
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All right, Reds, Tony Evans here with Walk On, your Liverpool podcast from The Athletic. I'm here with James Pearce and Greg Evans. Versa-wait? Oh dear, the puns, the puns. Anyway, we'll discuss the latest on Liverpool's move for Florian Wirtz, get into the goalkeeping department with Kelleher leaving and Marmadash Vili arriving, and plenty more. But let's start with those three words.

Greg, welcome back. It's brilliant to have you here. Hello, Tony. Thank you very much for having me. It's a pleasure. My three words today are no letting up. No letting up. I like it, I like it. James...

I think, having seen how he squared up to Bruno Fernandes playing for Germany against Portugal, I'll go with Florian the Scouser. No, it's going a bit far, really. So early, so early in the window. That's what James and Greg think. Here's what you're saying. Silas Kidner, missing them already. Kasif Hassan, when's Werdt coming?

Anthony Merta, Florian Friday, please. And Martin Glendrange, totally weird. More puns! No, no! You're listening to Walk On, brought to you by The Athletic. Well, James, I suppose we've got to start there, haven't we?

All right. You know, why isn't he in Liverpool? Why isn't he shopping in the De Alstom in Norris Green? Why? Why? Why? It's your fault. You're the man. Bad news, Piers. Puts a block on everything. Explain to me what's going on. I am. Yeah, I must admit, I...

I did enjoy this thing about, you know, why is it taking so long? And like, you know, why, why are these things becoming so drawn out? And it's like, it's June the 5th. Yeah. It's a Liverpool have already signed Jeremy Frimpong. They've like,

tabled what is a club record bid for the gem of German football who's already told them he wants the move to happen and I think there's a sense of inevitability at both ends that it will happen but yeah and then obviously there's a small matter of him being away on international duty and

So I think there's a fair few factors there, isn't there? And I think the biggest thing from the people I spoke to is that it's not like Liverpool are battling to quickly get this over the line to beat off competition from someone else. Because although there was serious competition for Wurz initially, obviously Bayern Munich...

almost assumed he would be going there because they feel as if they have that divine right. The best young talent in German football will inevitably end up there and strong interest from Manchester City as well. But, you know, Wurz has made it clear that he wanted Liverpool and I think that's testament to

to Arna Slott and the project that's been sold to him. So, yeah. And obviously the fact that we're still over a month away from the start of pre-season. So, yeah, I don't think anyone getting frustrated that this is taking a little while just needs to calm down because, yeah, there's a whole load of reasons why there's absolutely no reason to be concerned. Greg, are you excited about this potential move?

Yeah, I am actually. I'm really excited. I mean, it's quite unusual, isn't it, for a football club to table a record-breaking bid literally days after the season ended. So it is really exciting. And I think, you know, just following some of it, as James said on social media, it's quite amusing, isn't it? The outrage almost that Liverpool are taking so long to get it done. But no, look, you know, very excited because, you know,

My three words that I introduced the podcast to were the fact that Liverpool, they're not letting up, are they? They've just won the title. By far the best team in the division over the course of the season. Now what about Arsenal? Oh, forget them. Bloody hell. They're showcasters. And now they're trying to get a record signing through the door. So, yeah, very, very exciting times. Slot won the league, really, with Klopp's team.

Now we're about to see the slot age begin, really, aren't we? We are, yeah. And I think it's going to be fascinating to see how it does evolve stylistically. And I think we said earlier on the week, didn't we, that back end of the season, slot was talking about wanting to kind of add new weapons. And I thought it was interesting as well when he was saying

you know around the title triumph he talked a lot about how he saw a lot of him room for improvement and I think he kind of he also mentioned in the same conversation like just how many tight games Liverpool had and how there'd been very few occasions over the course of the season where Liverpool had been two or three up and had been able to ease off and

and he felt they could add more elements to the game. And I think you see that already with, you think the pace and dynamism and attacking thrust of Frimpong already on board, you know, his versatility. And Wurz, I think, you know, is probably, you know, a level above, isn't he, in terms of, you know, he's got everything in terms of

that creative spark and ability to, to break teams down. So adept at kind of finding little pockets of space and picking the right pass. He scores, he creates, he,

And again, like Frimpom, there's a versatility there where he can play, you know, left side and midfield. He can play wide left, number 10, false nine. Going to be intriguing to see where kind of slot sees him best being used. And yeah, I even like the kind of...

The spikiness of him taking to Instagram this week to dismiss reports in Germany that he'd been throwing his weight around already and been demanding the number 10 shirt, which obviously belongs to Alexis McAllister currently. You know, he was certainly on the front foot there. You don't see that too often with players who haven't even, you know...

they haven't even joined the club yet, making it clear that they have not been doing this. Because I think he obviously wouldn't want to be portrayed as arrogant enough to be kind of walking in and saying, right, I'll have that number, please. So, yeah, there's a lot to admire. And I think, you know, I think Kyrkos clearly is the kind of the third element of this in terms of getting business done early. And if Liverpool can get, you know,

and Kirk is over the line in the next week or so, then what a remarkable platform that is for the rest of the summer.

Well, definitely, definitely. And obviously, a lot of you listeners are quite excited about this and we'd love to hear from you. So if you want to get in touch with us, email walkonattheathletic.com. But we've had a voice note about it. So let's have a listen. Hey, guys. Tom here. Love the pod. It looks like we're going to get the Verts transfer over the line. Really excited about that.

but it does seem to be a bit out of character for FSG. And I'm surprised Moore's not being made of why they're spending all that money on just one player. My dad made a good point that maybe Verts is being signed as a Salah replacement, not a like-for-like replacement on the pitch, but maybe the player that the team is going to be built around in the future. So I'm wondering if you guys think that it's now inevitable that

Edwards and Hughes and FSG will look to cash in on Salah next summer. So summer of 2026 when surely there'll be more interest from Saudi. So yeah, interested to get your thoughts. Thanks. That's a really good point there from Tom, isn't it, Greg? Yeah, it's quite unusual, isn't it, to see Liverpool being prepared to pay such a

amount of money but I just think that they're going to make up this money that they initially outlay with you know sales in the future I think that there are some players there that that Liverpool can move on obviously already moved Kelleher on for for potentially 18 million we'll get into those details a little bit later I think but yeah really nice message there really nice call from one of our listeners and great to great to hear some of the thoughts as for Salah I think he's probably a bit too early to say that isn't it it's

It's difficult to know because if he has the type of season that he's just had with Liverpool, then why on earth would they want to get rid of him? Yeah, yeah. And, you know, I think, but the one thing James is assuming the sign and does go through, I think we're all pretty confident, aren't we? It does create options for the club. It does. Yeah, yeah. And just picking up on that, I think I don't,

I don't see it personally as some big shift from FSG in terms of the way they approach things. I think they've shown throughout that they're willing to dig deep when they're absolutely convinced

that a deal is right. And I think Verts is such a special talent. And you look at the age he is at 22, already achieved so much high ceiling, so much potential. Yes, it's a huge investment now, but in four years' time, I don't think that value is going to be... If anything, I think his value will have been enhanced. So...

So, and I think, I think that's an important part of it. And as, as Greg said as well, in terms of like the, the business model, I think we'll still see that that has remained the same. I think, you know, let's wait and see how much is generated by sales and what kind of the net spend is like, um,

later on in the window because I think Liverpool have already factored in the Kelleher and Trent Alexander-Arnold deals and what's that, the best part of £30 million if you include the add-ons already. And then of course we're talking about a summer where Liverpool are going into it off the back of a money-spinning Champions League run. All the riches that come with winning the Premier League with obviously the media money and all the commercial benefits to that.

the Adidas kit deal, you know, preseason tour of the Far East coming up. And of course doing so little in the market a year ago, it's given them greater flexibility. And then when you throw into the mix, obviously the way that, you know, if you say it ends up as being 115, 120 million pounds for Verts, which I think what is what kind of Leverkusen have been pushing for, you know, that cost will be spread out over the next four or five years. So, so,

So yeah, I think it's an interesting topic of debate. But I just think also it's where Liverpool are at. Because, of course, rewind a couple of years and there was all that talk about Bellingham. Are they going to break the transfer record to get someone like Bellingham? And of course, the way it worked out was essentially spending that kind of money on one player just would have made absolutely no sense business-wise. Because...

over the course of that season it became clear they had to rebuild an entire midfield and of course they end up buying four midfielders for what was 130 million combined which was effectively you know what the cost of the Bellingham deal so I just think it also shows where the squad is at now where you're able to like just add you know

real quality rather than it's not a summer where slot is and richard hughes are having to look to rebuild a department say like like liverpool were having to a couple of years back if you want to know how to fan the football way ask the fans with the medallion only they know when to show up for the game and what to bring and that every win is best celebrated with a medallion medallion the cerveza for football drink responsibly beer imported by crown import chicago lenoir

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See?

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Kroger, fresh for everyone. Have your say in getting golf by emailing walk-on at theathletic.com Remember, we'd love to hear from you. We'll put a link in the description so you can give us your feedback on the show, what content you've enjoyed most and what you'd like us to do differently next season.

You want us to do something different next season? Fascists. Anyway, on with the housekeeping. From next week, we'll be down to one pod a week throughout the summer, before ramping back up to two for the new season. Well, Greg, you did a great piece this week for The Athletic. You've become The Athletic's goalkeeping correspondent, haven't you? And about the situation at Liverpool.

Yeah, I suppose I have in some ways. It's quite funny really because when Liverpool signed Jorgin Mamadashvili, my editor asked me to write an article about him just to give some of our readers a little bit more insight. And since that, I think he thinks that I'm an expert on Mamadashvili and goalkeepers. So every time there's a topic around goalkeepers, I tend to write about it. But I think...

The points that I made in the article were really that it's a bit of a risk, isn't it, this year for Liverpool. OK, Kelleher had been pushing to leave for some time and it was inevitable he was going to become a number one somewhere. But if you just look at that move in isolation, breaking up what was the best goalkeeping department in the country,

by letting Kelleher leave. And look, third choice goalkeeper Vítor Slav. Jarosz is probably going to leave on loan as well. It's a bit of a risk, isn't it? Because although you've still got Alisson, Mamed Ashvili's coming in and Liverpool think very highly of him. But he is untested at Premier League level. So if anything happens to Alisson, and the concern always is that at some point in the season he'll pick up an injury,

it's all going to fall on Mamadashvili to fill in. Yeah, yeah. James, I mean, the one thing about Keller, he was really reliable. You know, you made the point on the previous pod that when he came in, there was no discussion about the drop-off from Alisson, really. It's almost...

It's one of the things that went under the radar this season, wasn't it? You know, it's how good he was. So, I mean, in a sense, what's your thoughts about Greg's view that this is a little bit of a risk?

Yeah, I think change, there's always a degree of risk, isn't there, associated with change? And I think in an ideal world, you would keep Kelleher for the next five years and know that you have got the best number two around. But I think...

there's just been a sense of inevitability about Keller leaving. And to be honest, I'm amazed that Liverpool have been able to keep hold of him until the age of 26, because, and I think, you know, part of that is obviously, you know, they, they haven't had the right offers. And I, it baffles me actually that bigger, bigger clubs haven't come in before now with, with the kind of offers that would have really tested Liverpool's resolve and,

keep hold of him but yeah I mean I think we said earlier in the week didn't we that you know he's guaranteed one hell of a reception when he comes back with Brentford next season because I know Kavine Keller is one of those few people in football that I don't think I've ever heard anyone say a bad word about him you know he's universally liked at Liverpool you know I think Brentford I think their director of football mentioned it when in when the move went through in terms of

Obviously, he'd done various character checks and all the rest of it on him in terms of the enthusiasm that came back the other way. And he's never let Liverpool down, has he? 67 appearances over the course of the best part of six years. And always stepped up and delivered. And he deserves the chance now to go and become...

become a first team number one at Brentford and going to be fascinating as I guess Greg wrote in his you know that good piece earlier on the week you know it's the dynamic now because of course Mamadashvili

you know, the dynamic is going to be different because it was almost like Keller kind of always knew his place and, and slot, even, even when Keller was excelling in Alison's absence, if you remember rightly, slot was like, no, no, no. As soon as Alison's fit, he comes back in. Um,

And now that dynamic is going to be so interesting because, of course, Mamadashvili isn't coming in as, wow, isn't it going to be great to work with Alison Becker and I can learn so much from him. He's coming in to try and take Alison Becker's place. So, yeah, I think...

It again shows the value a year ago of Liverpool succession planning and having Mamadashvili lined up because I think otherwise you'd be thinking, oh, you know, that's a big void to fill in terms of Kelleher. But yeah, going to be interesting. And obviously, you know, Yarros probably needs a loan. You know, Harvey Davis, young local goalkeeper, he's been with the academy, I think, since he was about eight or nine.

He was out of contract, but as we reported earlier on this week, he signed a new long-term contract. So you wonder whether maybe he could be the number three if Jarosz does go out on loan. Yeah, Greg, I mean...

It's going to be difficult in many ways. The dynamic is going to change an awful lot because Mamed Ashville, this time last year, he was one of the standout players at the Euros. He's going to want to play, isn't he? He's not going to be content like Kelleher was to be second fiddle to Alisson.

No, no. Look, a slightly different character because he's coming to Liverpool as an established number one, an international, a guy who has done very, very well in Spain with Valencia for a number of years now. And obviously, Keller was just a little bit different because he worked his way up through the ranks almost and always knew his place. And he's very difficult. I've spoken to many goalkeepers in the past who have...

Yeah.

But with Mohamed Ashvili, he's very, very confident. He's been at Ballon d'Or awards previously because he's been nominated to be the best goalkeeper in the world in those rankings. He has high ambitions of becoming the best goalkeeper in the world. Liverpool really had to push through the deal to get him in over last summer because...

Although they'd scouted him heavily for months, his performances at the Euros really just stood out. And, you know, Liverpool were a little bit concerned that other clubs would then come in. So, you know, they got that deal done very quickly. So it will be interesting to see when he comes in. He's going to have a couple of weeks in pre-season and then he's hoping to get some information on what Liverpool see his role being over the course of the season.

Yeah, James, does this tell us anything about Alisson's future? I mean, after the win in Paris, we were saying that we'd still have the best part of a decade in him at the top level. Is this a straw in the wind that suggests he might be looking further afield?

Certainly not in the short term. I think, as I said before, I think it is more succession planning. I think, you know, Liverpool knew when they did the Mamadash-Philly deal last year that, you know, the way that Alisson's contract is, you know, he's effectively, there's, I think...

He's got a year left now, but there's an option, a 12-month option that belongs to the club, which obviously the club would trigger that. So essentially he's got two years left. So what is he? 32. I think he's coming off the back of a really good season. And certainly I didn't sense... I was watching back actually earlier on this week all the interviews from the parade bus and the absolute glee on his face of...

of being part of a Premier League title winning team for the second time with Liverpool. And then he talked about looking forward to going for a new challenge with the club come August. So I certainly don't get any sense that he's already unsettled in any way. And I know when Liverpool did the Mamadashvili deal, they were very respectful in terms of explaining it to Alisson beforehand and everything.

and how it was about planning for the future. And, you know, I think he went, he's talked publicly himself about how, you know, he thought that was a wise move by the club because obviously Mamadashvili is a lot younger. And he said, you know, of course I won't be here forever, but he said he fully intended to, to honor the rest of his, his contract. Um, so, so yeah, I mean, Alison is one of those players that's been repeatedly targeted by the Saudi pro league. Um,

you know, turn down numerous offers. And of course, you never really know, do you? Because I think what we do know with the Saudi Pro League is they don't tend to take no for an answer. They just tend to come back with bigger and bigger offers. So, yeah, at the moment, I don't think there's any reason to believe that Alisson will be going anywhere in the next,

two seasons but I think it's just shrewd business from Liverpool to ensure that there's a contingency plan there in place if that does change and also you can't ignore the fact that Alisson has had a succession of hamstring injuries and

and you know they they can be difficult to shake off especially as you you get older as a player you know the fact that keller her played so much last season you know allison missed 10 premier league games which is a quarter of the season so i actually think you know probably when you look at it they'll they when you throw in the domestic cups and probably some european commitments at times as well there'll be more than enough football to keep mama dash really satisfied as he adapts to his new surroundings yeah

Greg, one of the best things I find about this podcast is that we get insights into James's life.

I mean, you know, ordering like salads in a steakhouse, these constant non-holidays that he goes on. And now we find he spends his spare time watching interviews from the bus back. Not games, not the biggest moments in Liverpool's history on the pitch, but interviews from the bus on the parade. And I think sometimes I wonder about him.

That was too many days drinking, James. I still haven't had an update on that. How was that period where I was last on the pod and we were talking about five days of drinking in a row? And then you went to Ibiza. Bloody hell. It was hard work. I've got to be honest. It was gruelling. Yeah. I made the really poor error of going big.

at the Football Writers' Dinner in London on the Thursday night, which then meant having to really dig deep for the LFC Foundation Dinner in Liverpool on the Friday night, which then made the Radio 1 concert in Sefton Park on the Saturday, you know, a real battle of resilience. And then Town after the trophy lift on the Sunday was a real battle. So yeah, it was. And then, of course, the

Yeah, I took it easy on the Monday at the parade. It was a soft drink day.

I mean, yes. First day recovery. James' surreal life. Anyway, let's get back to transfers. And there's a bit of an update with Luis Diaz, isn't there? There is, yeah. Yeah, there's obviously been a lot of noise around Diaz since the end of the season. You know, talk of Barcelona making a move. And way beyond that goes back...

Yeah, it was more of the same really. Obviously, it was a bit of a long-running one last summer and then it cranked up again towards the back end of the season. Barcelona and also strong interest from the Saudi Pro League as well. And now Liverpool have actually had an approach from Barcelona. That arrived on Wednesday. But yeah, the response was absolutely unequivocal that Liverpool telling Liverpool

Barcelona that he is not for sale and that they are planning with Diaz on board for next season. So, yeah, I think it would take a huge offer to test that resolve. I think, you know, what does Liverpool pay? 50 million for him? I think you'd be silly to even think about it for less than 70 or 80 million. Yeah, Greg, I mean...

Every player's got the price. You know, it's further talked about him going to Barcelona, didn't he? And let's face it, most South American players, they grow up dreaming of going somewhere like Barcelona. It might turn out to be a good deal for everyone concerned if the right offer comes in.

I see I don't know I just I think Diaz I really like Diaz as a player I think that I think he's so important to Liverpool actually and I think that Arne Slatt you know really started really enjoyed working with him last season and used him in different positions and

you know, the clubs that have been linked with him, minus the Saudi interest for a moment, you know, Barcelona, Manchester City, clubs that are, you know, really close to Liverpool in terms of the level. So it's not like he's going to be ever dropping down anywhere that he goes because he's that good of a player. Oh no, Manchester City's a club who can win anything. Yeah, I would say clubs. Yeah, correct me when I'm wrong, Tony. Correct me when I'm wrong. Come on. I'm not having that. But,

But I just think that Liverpool have got players, other players like Nunes and Chiesa, who won't command figures much.

at the same level as Diaz but for me it would be stepping back a little bit if they sold Diaz I think move on Chiesa and Nunes if they're going to look at mixing things up and look you know as James said Liverpool insist there are no intentions of moving him on and

And hopefully that's right, because I think he'll be better staying at Liverpool regardless of the amount of money they get for him. Yeah, I absolutely agree with you there, Greg. I think it is interesting, isn't it, with his contract situation, because it'll be 30 by the time his current deal expires.

So I don't know, maybe it might be one that Liverpool are just prepared to, considering what they paid for him and what they've had out of him, maybe they will just sit tight. And if they don't get the kind of offer that is almost impossible to turn down, maybe he might just stay around for the last two years of his deal. Because I suppose it's a balancing act, isn't it? Because you have to almost weigh up

you know, how much will he have left in the tank at the age of 30? Because if, you know, it's all well and good saying, you know, give him a new, you know, if he, if he was going to sign a new contract this summer, say, you know, he would probably want a four year deal, wouldn't he? So, so then you're making a big, big financial commitment up to the age of 32. Yeah.

So, yeah, I just think it's a really interesting situation with Diaz because if he was 24 or 25 coming into this summer after the season he's had... It's a no-brainer then. Yeah, there's not a conversation to be had. But I think the fact, you know, he'll be turning 29 midway through next season, you know, that makes it a different scenario. Yeah.

Yeah, well, I don't know. I mean, you know, isn't one of the things we've seen about Fenway's shift in tactics is that, Greg, they go and they sign players in the 30s for big money these days. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, they do. Just one final point on Diaz and I'll be interested to see what James says on this also. Do you think, James, there is ever a point really, look, Diaz is very well paid, of course, and his girlfriend's come out and said recently how much they're very happy at Liverpool and they love everything that they've been offered since they've been there. But is there ever a stage where, because these contract talks and these whispers that we've been hearing have been going on for quite a long time now, that Diaz ever gets to the point where he's just a bit...

you know, frustrated by it all? What do you think? Because it has been going on for quite some time now, hasn't it? This clear need or clear desire to have a new contract and just hasn't been given one yet. Yeah, yeah, I think it is an interesting... I kind of interpreted that, all the noise last summer, because the stories just kept on coming about Barcelona. And then when you actually...

you know, when our Barcelona guys speak to Barcelona and obviously I speak to people at Liverpool, it was like, no, there's still nothing. There's still nothing. So you kind of like lead yourself to think, well, that noise is being created by someone. And it is, is that as we know, it has been quite often the case previously, almost trying to put pressure on the club to kind of,

to put that new contract under his nose. And, but, you know, I think, I think also what, what we've learned from, you know, the way that Michael Edwards and Richard Hughes operate is they're not going to be pushed into something that they don't think is in, in the, in the long-term interests of Liverpool. And, and of course, you know, I think,

age is a key part of that discussion. So yeah, from Diaz's perspective and I think also going back quite a long time now, I think there was some story during the rounds that he

he was only on £55,000 a week or something, Diaz. And someone said to me that was absolute nonsense. When you think these contracts are heavily incentivised with big bonuses and obviously they tend to rise incrementally anyway. I don't know, as you understand, exactly what he's on or what he was on when he first arrived from Porto. But

I think it's common sense tells you that you don't pay £50 million for a player who then earns £55,000 a week. That would just be absolutely nonsensical. No, no. I mean, the transfer fee normally gives you a good indication of what the wages will be. And it's certainly the correlation between...

what the club paid for Diaz and 55,000 a week doesn't really stand up to scrutiny, does it? Oh, no!

As you've probably heard by now, we've teamed up with BetMGM this season. We'll be using BetMGM lines to make all of our picks, and we'll have special offers for our listeners each week. If you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code THEATHLETIC, and you'll get a one-year subscription to The Athletic, plus up to a $1,500 first bet offer on your first wager with BetMGM. Here's how it works.

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You guys are on the ground. Is there much else happening? Greg, have you heard anything? Well, James is the main transfer guy, so I'll let him answer that one first. David Ornstein is the main transfer guy, so I'll let him answer that one. What else is happening? I mean, I think the fascinating thing about this summer is just that there is so much up in the air, isn't there? Especially in terms of outgoings, because there's just...

People always want clarity and certainty. Like now, who's coming in? Who's going? I think we're pretty clear, aren't we? And who's coming in? I fully expect Verts to go through. And I think Kirk has...

you know, he's desperate for the move to Liverpool to happen. You're going to ruin your reputation. You're going to become good news, Pierce. And, you know, I don't know how we're going to cope with that. And, you know, it's just a case of Liverpool and Bournemouth thrashing out an agreement because I think, you know, Bournemouth was sticking pretty rigidly to their £45 million valuation of Kirkes and I think Liverpool were looking to get that knocked down a bit. And,

And then, yeah, I think what else Liverpool do will be influenced to an extent by sales. You know, Darwin Nunes is obviously the, I'd say, you know, the most certain to move on. But it's like, well, where's he going to go? And of course, Liverpool want to maximise what they can get for him. They obviously turned down the Saudi interest in January, which I think, you know, I think that was proved right because although he didn't,

play a massive part in the second half of the season. You know, he still made a couple of telling contributions, not least Brentford away, which I think, you know, proved, you know, showed the sense of keeping the squad together. As we said, you know, the Diaz question mark, Harvey Elliott, you know, there's a lot of talk about after the last game, was that kind of him saying goodbye? I think, I think Harvey Elliott's a fascinating one because it's like,

I think to me, he's a 40 to 50 million pound, probably 50 million pound footballer. But you know, you look at his skillset and what he's already achieved at what the age of 22, whatever he is now. And yeah,

Yet, immediately, that obviously massively limits the kind of options that would be open to him in terms of who would be willing to pay that amount. I know there were some quotes knocking around from Chiesa saying, not ruling out the possibility of going back to Italy. Kind of cult hero figure, despite hardly playing for Liverpool over the course of the season. So, lots of noise around Kwanzaa. He was mentioned as a possible make-weight in the Wurz deal, although I was told...

you know, that is highly unlikely to happen. And the talks were centered just around, you know, cash and, you know, what the balance was going to be between the guarantees of the fee and what was going to be the add-ons. So, and then you've got those players on the fringes that Liverpool are looking, be looking to maximize money for people like Tyler Morton, you know, should get decent money for him to a lesser extent. Of course, someone like Nat Phillips, who's still a Liverpool player coming back from his loan at Derby County, Rhys Williams,

you know, another one that they'll be looking to do a deal for, you know, what's going to happen with Ben Doak, um, turn down what they turned down 15, 16 million for him in January, probably want nearly double that, I think to sell him. Um, so, so,

So yeah, there's a lot up in the air at the minute. If you get Wurz and Kerkéz over the line, having already got Frimpong, then I think probably then the two big conversations are, what do you do at centre-back? And do you still pursue a number nine? Or do you see Wurz as almost the answer to that? Centre-backs...

Tell us about it. Yeah, well, I think clearly Liverpool are looking at kind of succession planning in that department as well. I think you go back to last summer when, you know, they were part of the conversation for Lenny Yoro. But, you know, I think, you know, the price difference

for him, coupled with the fact that he wanted guarantees about first team football, meant that, you know, Liverpool didn't persevere on that front. You know, Howson at Bournemouth, you know, obviously, I think Liverpool kind of knew, despite Liverpool's

making efforts to try and get him that if Real Madrid were in the race that was always going to be a difficult one to pull off and of course a lot of what in terms of the urgency around the centre-back situation will be influenced by other factors like what happens with Canarte and

those discussions over a new contract ongoing. You know, he's obviously coming into the last year of his current deal. As we said before, you know, a bit of uncertainty over Kwanzaa. You know, again, Liverpool don't want to lose Kwanzaa, but, you know, it would depend, I think, heavily on what kind of offers were forthcoming for him. And again, Liverpool would want a big fee because, you know, there aren't many talented young English centre-halves around and there'd be a premium for that. And of course, Joe Gomez, who,

coming up to what's it 10 years this summer unbelievably since he joined Liverpool you know missed pretty much the whole of the second half of the season through injury so so I think you know even if Canati was to sign a new contract you'd you could still make a very strong case for Liverpool needing to bring in a young centre-half to you know you'd want some kind of you know succession planning in place for that and to give you more depth so um

So yeah, it's certainly going to be an intriguing few weeks. Yeah, I mean, I was looking forward to having some time off in July, but I don't think there'll be much free time because there is going to be a lot happening. I mean, James has mentioned so many names there potentially that have been either linked with the move away, but incoming. There's also Simicas as well. You know, if Kyrkes does come in, Liverpool won't be keeping three.

left backs on board will though so Simicast is another one that they could probably get a bit of money for also Bicetic you know what happens with him after he went on loan to a couple of loan spells wasn't it last season that didn't really work out for him last Palmas I think were relegated in the end from La Liga so that couldn't have been very enjoyable either so yeah plenty to look forward to this summer I think in terms of incomings and some outgoings and yeah we're going to be very busy

Well, yeah, so make sure you tune in to walk on. Yeah, Liverpool podcast brought to you by The Athletic. Thanks to James and Greg and YouTube for listening. We'll be back next week. We'll catch you then. The Athletic FC Podcast Network. When you're a forward thinker, the only thing you're afraid of is business as usual. Workday is the AI platform that transforms the way you manage your people and money today so you can transform tomorrow. Workday, moving business forever forward.

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