Liverpool: The title they never saw
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But trust me, it looks delicious. New McChrispy strips, now at McDonald's. The Athletic FC Podcast Network. This episode contains strong language and content some listeners may find upsetting. This is the sound of Liverpool winning the 2024-25 Premier League title.

On the 25th of May 2025, they will receive their 20th top-flight crown, equalling the record set by Manchester United. This season's victory will be defined by Mohamed Salah's goals, Arnaud Slot's career-defining debut,

And the measured manner with which the Reds marched on. But five years ago, when Liverpool last won English football's most prestigious trophy for the first time in three decades, this was not the scene. The outbreak of coronavirus is now undeniably a global crisis and is now officially a pandemic.

The World Health Organization says most, if not all, countries should expect outbreaks. Vaccines give clear hope for the future, but for now, you must all stay home, protect the NHS, save lives. Shutting doors, restricted to watching football via the telly.

fans were denied the chance to fully enjoy a momentous achievement in the club's history. Not being able to celebrate that title broke something in me in a way that I didn't really anticipate and certainly couldn't have predicted how it would go. But not being there wasn't what we all remember from that time.

Because in 2020, some of us lost family, friends, the person in the seat next to us on match day. We sat together, we hugged together, we cried together, you know, every emotion through every game we did. While many adorn their houses, painting the city in red, others are placing memorabilia elsewhere. We'd make sure those flags were out and now it's just like we're planning on

putting flags on his grave. It's just not right. I'm Simon Hughes. I've been speaking to families in Liverpool to find out how this title sits five years on from the COVID-19 pandemic.

You'll hear the story of the content creator who feels disconnected with Anfield now. That idea that the joy of seeing this thing could be robbed from you as well. The former steward who never got to save her, a title win. We had videos from Jamie Carragher and Steven Gerrard. And the Hillsborough survivor for whom the Atletico match was his last. Then obviously, you know, the panic set in. For the Athletic FC, this is Liverpool, the title they never saw. MUSIC

Supporting Liverpool was never really a question, it was just a thing. This is Paul Meechan. If you're a Liverpool fan, you may well have seen him on Redmen TV. Thank you so much. 30 years and this bad boy is finally in the trophy cabinet. Around the late 80s was when it started and just kind of grew from there. Liverpool at home, me and my cousins were with me mum and me auntie, normally at Bellevale Shopping Centre.

normally in our Liverpool kit because you wanted all the other kids walking around to know you supported Liverpool. I just used to think Liverpool played in the FA Cup final every year. I just thought that was what they did. Watching Manchester United sort of catch up and overtake and Fergie talking about knocking Liverpool off their perch and then going ahead as in-league titles and then extending beyond that as well. Yeah, there was just a real sense of, I want to see it. A, Liverpool needed to do that to get back on their perch, but it was just...

I'd just never seen it. And when it became my job, there came a point where I'd been to Champions League finals, I'd been there in the flesh all of a sudden to see us do all this. It's Liverpool's night. Silverware is the currency of success in football. And Liverpool have just hit the Champions League jackpot. And that was the one last one. Back in the 2019-2020 season, that one remaining bucket list item was within touching distance. He's got a run on goal.

He's still going. And Salah for Liverpool! When you get to the business end of a season, this city just turns red. By that, Paul means flags hanging from windows and parades where supporters swing from lampposts. Yeah, there was that real sense of anticipation. Where are you going to go? What are you going to do? Because it was so on for so long. We started singing we're going to win the league in January. Go, Liverpool!

Jamie Mawson is Liverpool through and through. 48 years I've been going to game with him. This is a long time. And I've always sat next to my dad. His dad, Richie, even more so. He was a mad Liverpool fan. Years and years ago he followed them home and away. And obviously I came along in 1972.

I started going to the game when I was five. My dad would always say, I'll have to say a few prayers, get the prayer mat out, you know, and see if we can get us over the line, bring that Premier League home. And it breaks for Roberto Firmino! I can remember that we won the Champions League in 2019 and he was made up with that. Farah Rigi with a chance! And Shawley that wins it for the...

Paul Smith knew Anfield better than many. Yeah.

as a fan. This is his daughter, Megan Smith. He gravitated towards Shankly. He really idolised him. He remembered where he was when Shankly retired because he always said he came onto the blue. No one was expecting it. And he says, I was at school and next minute we all got word and he said, I've never cried in my life but that.

He was really emotional. He grew up in Bootle. His family circumstances changed when he was younger, so they moved to Anfield. So they lived within five minutes of the ground. He met his wife, Marie, at Anfield. He met me on Flagpole Corner, the old Flagpole Corner. He was an exit steward then. I was in the specials. The specials are a voluntary police force.

And I was put on flagpole corner all the time. And he asked me out. I went home and said to my mum, I wonder if Stuart has asked me out. And I went, I don't think I'll go. She went, excuse me. She said, how would you like it if it was your son and you wouldn't say enough for him? And I went, OK. And that's how we got together. Liverpool is in the north-west of England, but it has a big Irish influence.

Many think it has more of a connection with the sea than the land behind it. It is often described as a left-leaning city, but more accurately, it's a city at opposition. Anfield, the home of Liverpool Football Club, is a working-class district just to the north of its centre. Anfield is a fantastic area with lots now of new built housing and people with gardens and drives and all that sort of stuff, but there are

areas of multiple deprivation and within that there are HMOs, houses of multiple occupancy and all of that sort of stuff. That's Steve Rotherham. He's the mayor of the Liverpool city region and he's held that position since 2017. His role is separate from the government's and is perhaps best summarised as soft power in charge of transport, planning and the development for the region.

Oh, and he's a big football fan. When I was a kid, those smells of Higson's beer, if you remember at the time, of hot dogs and fried onions and flatulence. But it isn't just about going and watching 22 fellas kicking the football.

It's about everything before it. It's about where you're going to meet up. Are you going to have a pint with your mates beforehand? It's discussing how you think the line-ups will be. It's second-guessing the manager. It's sometimes over-analysing things. It's picking on your favourite player and then possibly having a go at your least favourite player and predicting that that'll be the person who lets the team down. And Liverpool fans are...

significantly passionate about what happens at Anfield and long may it continue. There's a strong identity that runs through Liverpool.

Scousers are quite belligerent and don't like any imposition. So don't tell them what to do. But there is this Scouse exceptionalism and it's borne out through our history and certainly the very fact that a country heard a city and city region crying injustice and did nothing about it

That injustice that Steve talks about is no stronger than the vivid memories of the darkest day in English football's history, Hillsborough. Richie and Jamie Mawson were in Sheffield that fateful day.

Some of the 97 victims were still alive when the authorities tried to divert blame away from themselves. I was 16 at the time. I was only a young boy, you know. And I remember we got a coach going down to Sheffield. I remember it being really, really congested, you know, by the gates to the point where, you know, we were really, really getting squashed. And my dad said...

Jamie, Jamie...

Paul Smith was also at Hillsborough.

I think he was very, very wary and he wasn't willing to celebrate because he was caught up in Hillsborough. It was so packed in and lucky enough he was with his stepdad. Yeah. And his stepdad was a big man and he pushed him behind one of the gates, the doors, and kind of blocked him in. So he was...

He was kept safe, but he was very close to losing his life that day. I'd say it stuck with him and traumatised him for the rest of his life. Then you could see, obviously, people dying in front of your eyes, which was like, this is really happening. I remember turning to my dad. My dad hugged me and we both started crying because we knew that there wasn't going to be a football match that day. There was going to be a lot of deaths.

Because you could see people in a really bad situation below us, just getting crushed to death. March 11th, 2020. Liverpool versus Atletico Madrid. Officially, 52,267 spectators crammed into Anfield for a Champions League last-16 tie. It was the last game of football on English soil for over three months.

Pre-match nerves were present, and not just because Liverpool were losing 1-0 from the first leg. It was such a funny game. Poor Machen. It being a Champions League game, there was huge stakes around it. The season had gone, basically, pretty much perfectly up until around that sort of point. Oh, that's broken through. It's broken through for Sadio Mane.

It was crazy going to the game because you had all this sort of looming overhead. The idea that coronavirus wasn't just coming, it wasn't just something you were seeing on the news. It was basically here and there were going to be ramifications coming in the days to follow. We spoke about this week and a half, a week before the game. Jamie Mawson. Because my dad was watching the news, I was watching the news and we'd seen people getting carried out in body bags in Italy and Spain and he'd be on the phone to me saying...

are you sure this is the right thing to, you know, should this game be going ahead? I said, Dad, I don't think it should be. I said, but you've just got to follow what they believe is right. Otherwise, they call it off. I'm sure they call it off.

So I remember him going to the game that night. Well, I was in two minds whether to go to the Atletico game. Steve Rotherham, Mayor of the Liverpool City region. We had a discussion here and what we decided to do was to abide by government guidance. The official guidance from government, if you remember, was that there was no issues really for us and that people should continue with their normal lives.

At this time, La Liga had stopped playing football. Madrid was a hotbed for coronavirus, later deemed to be Spain's epicentre. But in the moment, you're not thinking of that. Again, I remember meeting people and shaking hands, but immediately...

sanitising the hands. The situation we were put in where we were given this warning, this guidance, Jürgen Koch shouting at people in the main stand to pull their hands away and not try and touch the players or have high fives. What we do with not shaking the hands is setting a sign. It's good for you, it's good for you, it's good for me not to shake hands. It's not important that 22 completely healthy players not shaking hands. It's a sign for society, for everybody out there. And Liverpool scored a goal and we just got

Everyone's going nuts. I remember him phoning me after the game because obviously we should have won the game but we didn't win the game.

But I remember him concerned, you know, he said, I didn't feel right, you know, there were people around me putting masks over the face. It's highly likely that when the massive spread happened in Liverpool, it was centred around that game. I said, well, just get home, he said, you'll be OK, you'll be OK. So a couple of days later, he thought it was flu-like symptoms, you know.

That decision to let the match go ahead would wreck Liverpool and the country for the months to come. Even the most basics of things just were more hard work as a result. They weren't just numbers, people were dying unnecessarily. My mum phoned me and said, look, your dad's not a bit well. I've had to phone an ambulance for him. Flu-like symptoms, tiredness, shortness of breath.

you'll remember the signs to look out for. That was the reality for Paul Machen. I posted the first sort of update video on it on the 19th of March and just saying, I'm sick. Weak, achy, cramps, cough, headaches, shortness of breath. It's an absolute delight. The worst flu I'd ever had, just in terms of being laid low and then...

of breath on top of that. So just that sense of not being able to take a full, fulfilling lungful of air, just even the most basics of things just were more hard work as a result. Paul was 37 and a father, but for a man whose entire livelihood was formed around football, it wasn't just health that Paul was worried about. We weren't even going to, didn't even know if the season was ever going to end and what that was going to look like and everything

We entered into then, without a doubt, the worst and most stressful period of my life. Just as a pure football fan, the idea of having that stolen from you, which Jürgen Klopp aptly described as the most important of the least important things. There's all this huge thing going on. People are dying and people that you know are dying as well by this point. It felt a bit like...

you know silly to be worried about such a thing but you had to because the staff there needed paying the livelihoods you know to be be concerned around as well as just that yeah that that idea that the joy of seeing this thing could be robbed from you as well yeah it was a pretty heartbreaking time to be away from football steve rotherham was trying to keep the city safe battling against poor communication from the government in london

Well, I was seeing some of the effects of non-compliance and my only driver in all of that time was the safety of the 1.6, 1.7 million people in the Liverpool city region. All I thought about was what was happening in our areas and I wanted to ensure that people here were as safe as we could possibly make it. And I knew, because I was seeing all of the

The evidence that was coming forward and all the statistical stuff that was being presented to us, that they weren't just numbers. People were dying unnecessarily because of this horrendous pandemic. It was a terrible decision for the game to go ahead because what they had...

is all the scientific evidence behind this. And we didn't have any of that. We never had access to anything. So we were reading the papers and listening to the news on the television like everybody else and then trying to formulate policy for our area. And yet we were doing it blindfolded because they, at that stage, had decided that we weren't privy to what was happening. But those significant decisions that they took on behalf of us all

obviously had really terrible and disastrous consequences for some families who still now are absolutely convinced that their loved ones died of COVID because they attended that football game. Eventually, Steve was able to play a significant role in the safety strategy for the Liverpool City region. We were talking to the right people and we were taking action locally that was having a greater impact than anything that a national government had ever done.

Of course, for many families, that was far too little, far too late. April 1st, that's when he got sick. He just didn't feel right. He was sweating a lot. Richie Mawson had attended the Atletico game and a couple of days later, it started. Mum phones the doctors. They prescribed him, I think, antibiotics over the telephone, which was not worth a carrot, to be honest. A couple of days later, it progressively got worse and worse.

to the point where he couldn't breathe he was he was he was then really struggling to breathe and then my mum phoned me and said look your dad's not a bit well i've had to phone an ambulance for him so she phones an ambulance and the ambulance came pretty quick they gave him an oxygen tank to get his breathing going a bit before he went in the ambulance and she said i remember turning around to him and saying ritchie because she wasn't allowed to go in so she said ritchie there's a tenner

She said, because the likelihood is, is they'll give you something and you can get a taxi back, back home. Paul Smith was working in a cash and carry. The 1st of April was when he started sharing signs with COVID and...

At first, we didn't know whether he was just overexerting himself because he was waking up at four and he was going to wake up at five and then not finish until, like, eight o'clock at night because he was an essential worker. It just seemed like it was one thing after another. He just steadily got worse.

And then he went into hospital on the 3rd and within a day or two, he was on a ventilator. He was so fit and healthy. And when he did get a cold, it was not like he had it. It was destroying people. My dad ended up having two blood transfusions a day because his blood was just clotting. And then he ended up having dialysis twice a day because his kidneys were failing him.

At first it started like, oh, it's like the flu. And then we were like, this is not the flu. We constantly kept saying to the staff on the ITU, because we couldn't go and see him, talk to him about football, talk to him about Liverpool, talk to him about winning the league, because we still had hope that he was going to pull through and make it through, just so we could keep his brain active and he had something to, like...

think about because he was in he was sedated we had videos from Jamie Carragher and Stephen Gerrard he was listening to messages like that he was getting messages from the legends like Bruce Grobbelaar and Dave Jono and things like that and I think that's what kept him going for so long because the nurses and the doctors were quite surprised yeah he survived that long

I remember phoning them, I think on the Friday, it was a couple of days later, and I said to him, Daddy, are you okay? He was really struggling then. Obviously, they had him on the ventilator. I said, you know, like any son, you're going to be fine, you'll be out next week, you know, you'll be fine, you're a fighter. And then the last words he said to me was, he said, I can't breathe, I've got to go. And he put the phones on.

I remember getting a phone call from a consultant one afternoon. And then it was like seven o'clock and we got a phone call and it was like, you need to make it up here now. He said, it's not good news. And I said, what's not good news? He said, I can't do anything else for your dad. He said, I've tried everything. He said, we've turned him, we've given new drugs, we've given steroids to get him going. He said, he's just unresponsive. I said, well,

me being a son i'm saying come on you've got to give another week you've got to give another week and he said janey he said i'd love to give him another week he said i'd love to give him another month he said but he's been here now and he hasn't responded to any treatment whatsoever he said the only thing i can do now i've got no option this he said is to uh turn the machine off which as a son probably the worst the worst feeling i had at the time i just went numb to be honest with you

And he said, I'm going to pass you over to a nurse who's going to do a video call with you so you can see your dad for the last time. I was crying uncontrollably to this nurse. And then obviously the, we had to turn it off, it went blank. Richie Mawson died on the 16th of April 2020. The family was just uncontrollable, you know.

Paul Smith died on the 23rd of April 2020. They were turning him from his back to his front. So they'd turn him every couple of hours to see if he'd get more oxygen into his lungs. And they were like, we're just concerned that if we turn him, he's not stable enough to kind of recover. I was really lucky that we both made it in to see him.

Marie had grown up an Evertolian. You'll Never Walk Alone is a song associated with her team's rivals. She picks up the story. They said, well, the only muser Paul Smith loved...

A preliminary report into the British government's handling of the pandemic stated that 37 people died unnecessarily because that match between Liverpool and Atletico Madrid went ahead with a full crowd present. The BBC has since extended that number to 41. I blame the previous government. I really, really do. They knew the situation. They knew the situation before.

In Spain, Madrid was the worst affected city in Spain at the time. Forget about following the signs, they knew the situation. We were set up to fail as a country and it just seemed like a domino effect. Things were happening but people were just putting their fingers in their ears and saying, just let people get on with it. I was very emotional when we won the league that night.

How do you celebrate winning the one title that has eluded your team for so long? We were unfortunately to be in lockdown. We all couldn't celebrate it together. But it was a very emotional night that night because we put a bottle of champagne to one side, we raised a glass to my dad, you know. But it was emotional, you know, because you think he should be here because he had no underlying health issues whatsoever. He was a great 70-year-old. He'd go to the empty times a week. He was brilliant.

Paul Maitland was working with his co-host at Redmen TV, Chris Pajak, the night that Liverpool won their first title in the Premier League either. Come on! Absolutely incredible! What a season! What a night! What a rollercoaster! I mean, look at it! Look at it right there! And he had a decision to make. Chris had said, well done everyone, that was amazing. Does anyone want to come to my back garden and we'll have a couple of beers to celebrate? And so I went, cool, I'll follow yous.

And I... So we're based in Hunts Cross and you've got to drive through Walton Village to get to that part of the city. And I drove through Walton Village and people were just in the streets, jumping around, bouncing, celebrating. And I was like, I might just get out here. Because, like, look at all these people here enjoying the moment. And I remember thinking, I'm driving...

to my mate's house where I think there might have been four maybe five of us total sat in darkness having a couple of like beers and letting all the adrenaline drain out and I just thought if Wollong Village is like this Anfield's gonna be fucking mega I'm going to Anfield I just am and just like it was like a homing beacon

I didn't tell anyone, didn't ring my wife, didn't tell Chris I wasn't going until I was there. I just got up, parked up in a side street and just walked towards the cop. And it was just everything that I needed. Just people en masse, drinking and celebrating and cheering and climbing the railings of the Paisley Gates and getting on top of the, you know, like walls and...

smoke bombs going off and flares going off and like god like that was the absolute best of the best the amount of random strangers I'd hugged and bear hugged and people jumped up and down and round and stuff and it was that point I'd come out of having Covid and there probably was a little part of me that went fucking I'll be alright I've had it now but even then I stopped myself I was probably only there for 15-20 minutes

I remember going, that's it. I'll put the lid back on now because this will come to an end and we'll get that moment. We'll get a parade and I'll be able to let go then. I was bottling up all these emotions waiting for the parade. I was like, that's what I'm saving it because it's been 30 years. I want it to be this big thing and then it never came. And so I ended up

feeling really like emotionally detached from football for the years that followed it not being able to celebrate that title broke something in me in a way that I didn't really anticipate and certainly couldn't have predicted how it would go when I saw the scenes of

I absolutely understood the override and emotion that we'd just won this thing after 30 years and everybody was really excited about it and there was an outpouring of emotion. I 100% got every single part of that because I was feeling all of those things too. But the bit that caused me the greatest concern was I was looking at people...

and thinking you don't know out of that horde who might or might not have COVID who can easily pass it on to somebody who can then go and pass it on to a relative and it might not be because it was a lot of younger people might not have been some of those that succumbed but it could easily have been somebody that they innocently passed that on to so that caused me sort of great anguish

It's been a long, long time since Liverpool fans have been able to celebrate their team winning the title. Nobody knew in 1990 there would be a 30-year wait for the next one. And when that moment came, the world was a very different place. So now, in 2025, with Liverpool winning the title with games to spare, how does it compare? It's harder this time around because when we celebrated five years ago,

We were still under restrictions. We were still not allowed to be in close proximity to each other. So we didn't have a full stadium. It was just flags on Copend. Whereas now, with it, it's an amazing thing. And I'm made up that we've won.

But it's also a little tinge with sadness because you're constantly thinking, oh, he'd be doing this now. Or he'd be saying, he'd be winding up the Evertonians at work. The anticipation for some people will be greater than ever. I'm really not sure how to feel about it this time. I think there's probably more sadness for me this time around. I think if Liverpool had won it last season under Klopp,

I said in a few places, like, nothing on earth could have kept me off the pitch at Anfield if they'd confirmed that on the last game of the season. I was ready. That would have been me done. I'd take my ban on order. Never need to go back to Anfield again and completed football. I think there's a little recrimination or a little sadness that it's not been as emotional this ride this time around. The way Liverpool have achieved, it has been much more functional, more

that I don't feel that same level of emotional attachment to that and that might be an age thing. So yeah, I haven't felt that same level of connection this time. But look, I will probably cry my eyes out at Anfield when I finally see a Premier League title lifted there. I'm just not sure. I'll never know. I'll never know how it would have compared to seeing it in 2020 or in 2023, 2024. Since Jamie's dad Richie has passed away, Jamie hasn't wanted to return to Anfield.

I've still got the season tickets, the two season tickets. He gives them to his daughter so they remain in the family. But Anfield has changed for Jamie. It's just not the same, you know, because I miss his character that much, you know. We hugged together, we cried together, you know, every emotion through every game we did. And I just cannot, for the life of me at this moment in time, drag myself up to get myself to that ground because I'm thinking, where is he?

I think we'll have a good celebration. I think everyone's looking forward to it, you know, and get that bus through the city properly, what we deserve. For Megan and Marie Smith, it's been much harder. The things I miss about him the most, it's the little tiny things, like when you'd walk past him when he was sat on the couch and he'd go, are you OK, son? And he'd grab your hand. Mrs Voice, more than anything.

And what was he saying to me? I know you like the back of my hand. He knew us very well. He used to call me his shadow because I followed him everywhere. I idolised my dad. He was such a good man and someone to look up to with his values. He never really asked for much. He was very quiet, like routine, a wind-up. I think my relationship with him

When Liverpool returned to Anfield for a game against Crystal Palace for the first time since the season was interrupted, a stewards' jacket with Paul Smith's name had been placed on the cough in his honour.

Winning the league triggers a lot of emotions off. Like, I suffer with PTSD now because of what happened and what I saw on that ITU that day. And then when something triggers it off, like hearing you'll never walk alone, that kind of, like, brings waves of memories that I've forgotten over the five years. But then I'm back there, square one on that day. It just doesn't seem like five years. It seems like yesterday.

There's something else Megan would like to say. She's delighted Liverpool are champions again. She just hopes supporters don't forget what happened last time. I think the one thing he'd want is that the Liverpool fans celebrate us and celebrate it to the utmost because he was such a mad red. But then he'd also say, remember us, the ones who didn't make it. Remember us when you're having a pint.

You've been listening to Liverpool, the title they never saw. It was written and presented by me, Simon Hughes, with additional help from Andy Fifield. The executive producer was Abby Patterson. Take control of the numbers and supercharge your small business with Xero. That's X-E-R-O.

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