Salah's standing as a Premier League great & imperious van Dijk
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The Athletic FC Podcast Network. All right, Reds, Tony Evans here with Walk On, your Liverpool podcast from The Athletic. I'm here with James Pearce and Simon Hughes. Another week, another three points for Arnie Slott's red machine. We'll talk about the dismantling of Ipswich. We'll discuss Mo Salah's standing amongst the Premier League greats. He's got to be up there, hasn't he?

as well as the numbers behind Virgil van Dijk's imperious Liverpool career. But we'll start with those three words. Si, last week we had a reader on who tried one of your tricks by getting four words into three. I rebuked him heavily. Oh, wow. I'm just going to say Arne in control. I like it, I like it. James? Virgil the Rock. Virgil the Rock, yes, yes. I concur with both.

And here's what you've been seeing. Caleb Jenkins, it's too easy. It kind of was against Sipswich. Alex Fogarty, another step closer. Tom Wilkinson, what's Hughes doing? And Andy Corrigan, a pivotal weekend ahead. Every weekend seems to be a pivotal weekend. To join our community of listeners on Facebook, just search Walk On Podcast and join the group. Jack Pope, Salah, it's another Mohamed Salah goal.

Somehow he finds a way to get that ball into the net. Not sure how, but he does it. Well, James, 4-1 on Saturday. It was a bit too easy. I mean, after the Brentford game when you're living on a knife edge. And I was saying, well, like his easy wins when the teams are put away. Well, there you go.

Yeah, it was a rarity, wasn't it, in terms of this season, in terms of no real drama or jeopardy. You could sit back and enjoy it. I don't think the result was in any doubt whatsoever from the moment that Zabozlai drilled home that goal early on. It was a mismatch, to be honest, a real golfing class. I thought Liverpool played with great control. And yeah, you almost got the feeling after half an hour that,

Ipswich just wanted to try and escape with a modicum of dignity and pride still intact. And I think they just about did that with the resistance they showed in the second half. And I suppose the only annoyance was obviously the sight of conceding a slack consolation goal late on. But if you're ever going to, you know, doze off defensively, then doing it when you're 4-0 up in the closing minutes is probably the best time. Yeah, without a doubt. I mean...

you know, I mean, I don't mind giving away a consolation goal occasionally, you know, it's actually, I would rip them apart in the dressing room for, you know, it's a, but sorry. And as a man who's written a brilliant book about, uh, Mo Salah, Jason Salah, 23 goals for the season, 17 assists. Words fail me. It was a really bad time to be bringing the book out, wasn't it? Um, yeah,

Yeah, I thought it was an incredible goal by Salah actually. I know he's only a few yards away, but it's actually quite a hard finish because he has to... Shift one foot to the other, boom, from a narrow angle. I really liked it. It was magnificent.

And again, I mean, he sort of has quiet moments in the game, doesn't he, Salah? But then suddenly he scores a goal or provides an assist, which ends up changing the course of the afternoon. And I thought it was a good opportunity to take stock from Liverpool because you think that the season actually started with a game of games to switch away when they had very little control of the first half and then obviously blew them away in the second half. And this to me really sort of illustrated the gulf between the two teams, as James said earlier.

When you've got Salah on the pitch, he is so much better than most players in the Premier League, particularly against opponents that have just come up. What defenders just must fear is that he can be sort of dormant and then suddenly explodes and there's a goal, a couple of goals, a couple of assists and Liverpool have won the game and that's pretty much the way it was on Saturday. Yeah, James, he's gone past Thierry Henry and the list of all-time Premier League goalscorers, 176 goals.

And given Omri's status as one of the iconic players in the Premier League, where does

Salah sit in the pantheon of greats, not just Liverpool greats, but in the whole of the Premier League era? Yeah, I thought that was a remarkable one to tick off, really, when you think of Thierry Henry, don't you, as one of the greatest strikers that we've witnessed in the Premier League era and the fact that now Salah has usurped him. I think he was the seventh now, I think, in the all-time list. I mean, his numbers are crazy. As Simon said, the

The quality of that finish, the first touch and how lethal the finish was from such a difficult angle. And was that 19, 19 league goals now, 23 in total, 17 assists. I mean...

Yeah, they're mind-boggling numbers, aren't they? And I think he's already put himself in that conversation in terms of one day people will be talking about, was it Salah, was it Gerrard, was it Doglish who was the pick of them? And I think the wider conversation, the more he climbs up that list,

the more his claims to be regarded as one of the greatest to have ever played in the Premier League, that those claims are strengthened as well. Say, you're a bit like Ernest Luttrell, fella, a bit of a miserablist. You know, it's moaning about... Well, actually, you're quite the opposite. You know, you're happy with a victory, even if the display's not great. But you are a miserablist.

I don't know whether... Is this a compliment, Tony, or not? It's a compliment. It doesn't feel like one. You know, I'm an angry old git. You know, but I mean, even Anna's dad has got to be happy with that sort of performance. Yeah, I think so. I mean, I remember writing about Slot's dad in the summer and, you know, he's a...

He's a school teacher, isn't he? So he's always going to find fault in something. You know, school teachers always think that they know better, don't they? Sorry, school teachers. But yeah, I think that that's sort of the discipline from his dad is one of the things that sort of

has become a feature of his life. And there's nothing wrong with wanting a little bit better, wanting a bit more excitement from time to time. One of the Liverpool greats, Ronnie Moran, was infamous for that. You know, if you won 5-0, he'd be fuming that you didn't win 6-0 or 7-0. That Ipswich consolation goal would have sent him into a mind-boggling rage. So, you know, there's nothing wrong with it.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, is there such thing as a perfect performance, Tony? I'm trying to think of the perfect Liverpool performance. There's always something you can look to do better, I guess. But going back to Salah, people might look for that in him at the moment. And he's just so consistent in terms of how much he affects the game. It'd be interesting to see what Arnott's dad thinks of his performances because...

I think in his position and the impact that he has on the game and the numbers that he does, I don't think he can really do any better at the moment, to be honest. So it'll be interesting to see a critical assessment from him. But the interesting thing about Henry is obviously Thierry Henry was a centre forward converted to a winger, wasn't he? He played as a centre forward, more or less sort of drifting to the left a little bit for France and for Juventus and for Monaco. And then he sort of became a player who played in that space, didn't he?

Whereas Salah has always really been a winger playing, drifting centrally. There's a difference between the way they play the game, I think on opposite sides of the pitch as well. So I think Salah's done tremendously well to score the number of goals that he has in the time that he has.

albeit there is the context of the team, the way football has gone. It has changed a bit. But it's just this consistency is extraordinary and it'd be very difficult to replace that, I think. Well, it's a good job he's under contract for another three years, isn't it? Oh.

Well, James, Sati also marked Virgil van Dijk's 300th appearance for the club. And you've written a great piece on him and what he brings to the team. You know, the best win rate of any player to play 300 plus games, 69 points. Well, I'll let you talk me through all that. You wrote the piece. I thought that was probably as straightforward as an afternoon as Virgil van Dijk has had in a Liverpool shirt, I think,

he just oozes composure and class, doesn't he? And, um,

Yeah, as you said, Tony, 300 appearances, win percentage at 69.7%. I think he was the 65th Liverpool player to reach 300. None of them managed anything like that in terms of a win percentage. Even his numbers on Saturday, he had more touches than anyone else on the pitch, completed more passes than anyone has done in a Premier League game so far this season.

I thought it was telling that Liam DeLapp, who has been a threat for Ipswich, you know,

tried a couple of times early on came off second best in a couple of challenges and then just stayed out of van dyke's way it was almost like well i'm not going to get any change out of him i'll have i'll have to chance my arm with canate as well and you know van dyke ends up winning six of his seven duels and he he's just so important to liverpool isn't he i i still think salah's goals and his numbers are crazy but van dyke is liverpool's most indispensable player and

Because I think if the worst happened and you lost Salah for a period of time, then I would back Liverpool's other attacking options to help ensure that they would still win more than enough games. But if you lost Van Dijk, I mean, the void would be absolutely huge. And it's also what it gives you off the pitch. You speak to people around the place and it's...

the way that he sets the standards on a daily basis, how he embraces being captain. Someone said to me the other day that he wants to be across everything. You know, he takes such an interest in whether it's the medical, the fitness, the catering, you know, the coaching department, the video analysis, like, you know, in terms of making sure that everything is right, you know, advice for young players, helping out,

foreign players and their families who are maybe still finding their way around the area and all the rest of it. So he's such like this talismanic figurehead, but more than anything for me, still the best center back around. I don't, I don't see anyone who comes close to him. And I think, um,

He's certainly, for me, the biggest challenge to Salah in terms of the PFA and Football Writers' Player of the Season awards this season. And if he was to captain Liverpool to Champions League glory in Munich...

at the back end of this season, then I don't see any reason why we couldn't be looking at a Ballon d'Or winner in the twilight years of his career because as he approaches his 34th birthday this summer, there's certainly no sign of him slowing down. Yeah, I mean, what's amazing, Si, is that he's... I didn't realise this until a guy, a producer, told me. He's played every minute in the Premier League since...

He got that red curse at Newcastle in September. I wonder where Guy read that. He told me before I read your piece, you see. Oh, typical, typical. So I thought, hmm, he's obviously told James as well. LAUGHTER

But that is amazing. It's... One of the things about both him and Salah is the robustness. I mean, we know that he had that bad injury, you know, and was out for a long while. But, you know, these things happen. But generally, well, just compare him to, say, Canarte...

Yeah, he seems to me to be back to that pre-injury level that he was at. And the thing that I noticed is, I noticed in that period, so from 2018 to 2020, when Liverpool won everything, it almost felt like the opposition were trying to avoid him on the pitch by putting the ball in other areas of the pitch. And then when he got injured, they were testing him a lot, lot more. Obviously, it took him a while to get back up to speed, but

but you just don't want to go near him now. And the amount of times he's twisting and turning inside the box to sort of clear it away. I love the way Van Dijk does the dirty work really well as well. You know, the really difficult stuff where the ball's like fizzed in low and he's got to hack it away. He does that very well. I think the other thing this season to consider is obviously that the fellow alongside him, the left-back, hasn't had his best season. So he's had that, you know, sometimes when you're trying to

cover for a player, it becomes more of a burden, but Van Dijk hasn't made it look that way. So he's been outstanding this season. He's just looked imperious again. Absolutely no signs of slowing up. You know, his pace is there. He doesn't get exposed very often. And, you know, he's a threat in both boxes. I mean, all the stuff that James mentioned there off the pitch, that is obviously massively important. Yeah.

So, I mean, still no announcements about his contracts. It concerns me. You know, the end of January now, there's all sorts of theories about...

A deal being done and Liverpool having to be quiet, but nevertheless, there's no sign of that. It's a concern, I would say, at this stage because I just don't think you can replace him. I can't think of a player in world football who does what he does for any football team, really. A few years ago, I did have my doubts. I wondered whether he could get back to that level, but he has and he's had an outstanding season. Definitely.

Well, James, that brings us to the inevitable question, and you're going to get the blame for this. I'm telling you. What is the contract situation? Well, you won't be surprised to learn we did ask again after the win over Ipswich. It was kind of the...

inevitable kind of segue really having talked about is him reaching 300 games and he talked about how he was off home to mark the occasion with raising a glass of red wine with his wife and so he was asked how many more times do you think

we could see you in that Liverpool shirt because obviously there is that uncertainty beyond this season and his response was I have no idea how many how many games are left this season hopefully those are guaranteed and I don't know what the future will bring so you know which won't be music to the ears of of Liverpool fans it's your fault James your fault the contract and and yeah I you

you know i know there is this kind of idea going around you know simon referred to it there that you know maybe it's it's done and it's tucked away in a draw somewhere um whilst the uncertainty surrounded other players continues and i hope that's the case i've got no reason to believe it is but um out of all of the three players i think all the way along we've said haven't we that van dyke was the one we were most confident about but i think it also

everything just points to him staying in terms of

it would be absolute madness, wouldn't it? To wave goodbye to someone who is still at the peak of his profession. And there is a different dynamic there to the Salah one, because for a start, he's not earning that kind of money currently anyway. And you can see with Van Dyke just how much...

He loves everything, the responsibility, the pressure, the scrutiny, how he embraces everything that comes with being the leader of Liverpool. And when you throw into the mix what he gives you way, way beyond the peerless defensive performances week in, week out, you just think common sense surely says that you reach an agreement with him. Because, you know, the argument has always been, hasn't it, about, you know, committing too many resources to players in the twilight years of their career.

But for me, a two or three year extension for Van Dijk is an absolute no brainer. Yes, I am of the same mind. I have a theory. My theory is all the big brains at Liverpool, the new regime with the computers thought, well, there's going to be a drop off after Klopp. Slot's coming in. He's going to need time to bed in and we're going to have to rebuild. They didn't expect that.

this season to happen like that. And they didn't expect Van Dijk to have such an outrageously good year. They didn't expect Salah to have such an outrageously good year. I mean, if anything, the price on those two players has gone up. And all of a sudden, if they would have had a poor year, struggled to qualify for the Champions League, had what many people thought would be a natural drop-off after Klopp, they could have said, look, we need the resources for rebuilding. It was the kind of noise I was getting.

a year ago, you know, all the money will be recycled and rebuilding and rebuilding and all that. And here we are. I can understand that theory. And unfortunately, Tony, you know, uh,

despite the best laid plans, you know, there's a little almost insignificant issue of matches getting in the way of plans sometimes. And obviously towards the end of last season, you would have said this team does look tired. You know, that the manager obviously was tired by his own admission and went. The team looked exhausted. And when that happens, you obviously look to the more senior players to either get you through those moments or, yeah,

you know, sort of judge them based on how equipped they are to see through that period. And at that, you know, Liverpool season, you can look for all sorts of different ways, but I thought it did sort of collapse last season. Oh yeah, yeah. If that was the case, I can understand why they thought, you know, they might have another, another go this season, a bit of a transition and then, and then obviously, as you said, that word rebuild. But,

I think it would also explain why they're being quite late to the discussions, as we know. So I think it is a difficult decision, not a difficult decision to make for Liverpool because the decision should be to keep them, but the negotiating process is a difficult thing to engineer and navigate your way through given all the things you've spoken about in the past, given...

Some of these problems were inherited, given maybe some of the thought processes about what the future might look like haven't quite transpired that way. And players have had an uplift there.

You know, some of the staff at Liverpool, some of the sporting directors or technical directors, whatever titles they are, might think, well, some of these players are fighting for the future now, so you're going to get more out of them as well. There is that. There might be that nagging doubt in their minds. You know, well, you know, of course this season they're going to be right on it because they're fighting for a new contract. Players instinctively, you know, tend to do that.

But I just think particularly for Salah and Van Dijk, there's no sign that they're slowing up. Look at the goals, look at the numbers, look at the influence they have off the pitch, look at how much of a hole they have on the dressing room, as you say. Inspirational figures that players gravitate towards because they lead their lives properly are a good example to young players as well. That can't be overstated. So, very interesting months ahead, Tony, while Liverpool are trying to win the title. MUSIC

James, you're off to Eindhoven. I am? I am. Yeah, yeah. It's a very nice city. What's the local delicacy? Poffitures, which are sort of like tiny pancake type stuff. They're fried up in the pan and they have ice and sugar on. Oh, that sounds quite sweet though, Tony. If I was James, I would...

I would stick to the Dutch Bieterbollen with nice, it's like a fried mint in a batter and you dip it in mustard. It's absolutely perfect. So Bieterbollen, James. It's a very good bar snack as well.

The company's a nice lager, perfectly. Yeah, well, I mean, they have better beers than lagers there. Dutch don't do great lager, but, you know, it's... Well, actually, it's not Trappist anymore, but just down the roads was the former Trappist Brewery, Archel. It's now Commercial Brewery, but the beers are still very good. But, anyway, qualification sources, but there's plenty of Dutch influence on the pitch, and obviously...

you know, Slot's alfeller will probably be there, won't he? Moaning. So they'll want to put on a show. Yeah, they will. I think it's fair to say that the stakes will be considerably higher in other Champions League games on Wednesday night. But I think for Liverpool, I mean, it's a source of great pride, isn't it? I think Slot talked about it before the Lille game last week. You know, the only club in Europe with the 100% record in the Champions League and that

Although in the grand scheme of things, in terms of who they're going to face in the last 16, finishing top doesn't make a huge amount of difference, but it's still prestigious, isn't it? And a point or better will do it regardless of how Barcelona do on the final matchday. And then, of course, if that does end up as the top two, which it looks likely, then it means that Liverpool couldn't face

Barcelona until the final. Well, that'd be a shame. They conceded four last week. You know what I mean? Bring them on. Bring them on. They're a crazy team, Barcelona, aren't they? They're capable of heroics at one end and an absolute liability at the other. But yeah, regardless of whether Liverpool finish first or second, they're going to be playing...

either 15th, 16th, 17th or 18th in the last 16 in March. It's a bit more on the line for PSV because I think that they're 19th at the minute. So, you know, they're guaranteed a place in the playoff round in February. But if they were to put one over Liverpool and other results went in their direction, they could potentially bypass the playoff round the same as Liverpool. So I think...

I think slot will make a fair few changes I think it's a balancing act of course it is because you don't want you know you never want to lose do you it just dampens the mood suddenly a bit of self-doubt can creep in but I just think that game at Bournemouth on Saturday is so big and you look at you look at what Bournemouth did to Nottingham Forest at the weekend I

I think he'll be making, I'd have thought, at least a handful of changes. And to be fair, when you look at how strong the bench was on the weekend, I think he should be able to do that without a serious drop in quality levels. When you look at the players he brought on the other day, people like Nunes and Harvey Elliott and Chiesa, and of course, Jadon Dan's got a few minutes late on, maybe Connor Bradley,

Simakas might come back in so yeah I'm expecting him to utilise the squad Yeah Si and Gakpo going back to a former club you know it's a little bit of spice to his old isn't it he's been in brilliant form hasn't he Oh yeah he has been brilliant yeah I mean I really really like really really like him for all sorts of different reasons

It'd be interesting to see how he uses them, of course, because, you know, Liverpool have got a few important games coming up. James Wentz and Bournemouth, obviously the Tottenham game still in the balance. Like a few weeks ago, I was saying, well, he might as well just, you know, forget about the League Cup. I'm now thinking, well, you're one game away from Wembley, aren't you? What do you do? You might as well just go for it now. It's just potentially one extra game. So, yeah, I think those two games certainly take...

Preston that makes me wonder whether he'll the role that Gapo will play against PSV because nice for him to go home of course but

Is it that important? Not really, but you mentioned the League Cup, I think one of the difficult things is for fans to put themselves in the position of manager, because if you look at Slot, he might be looking at last year and saying, OK, won the League Cup, and then it all went wrong, comparatively. And Dalglish once said to me, he said, and

Any manager is only eight games away from the sack. And, you know, things in football can go wrong really badly. I think he's going to go for it, Tony. He's going to go for it, Slott, because, as you say, if he gets that... I mean, not that the League Cup matters to the owners, but if he were to go and win that competition, I mean, not that he needs to get fans on side, but it gives him something to point towards straight away.

you know he feels it feels it's quite a strong well strong team at top of them didn't he for the first like so there's no reason to believe he's just gonna say well see you later for the second leg is there

So, yeah, I mean, I know last season did fall apart, but to some extent, Tony, that had happened, you know, the seeds of that had happened before the League Cup final with all the injuries and the team that they had to put out, really. So I guess the FA Cup is the one that you could probably not take as seriously at this stage, given the number of games that Liverpool have got to win to get to a final. I mean, I personally just think, you know, that the PSV game...

I know there's all sorts of different permutations that Liverpool could get, but they're not in control of themselves, you know, with all the playoff games and all the different teams that could go through. So you could drive yourself crazy thinking about who you might or may not get. Well,

when there's nothing guaranteed anyway. So the only guarantee is if you win the League Cup semi-final against Tottenham and knock them out, you're in a final. Well, there is one more guarantee that every team in Europe will be scared of getting Liverpool. That is true. That is true. I would not, I mean, Liverpool at the moment are the team to beat. There's no harm in embracing that. You know, they've had a couple of indifferent results, you know, three or four indifferent results over Christmas, but they've still managed to get points in a lot of those games. Yeah.

you know, they tend to, you know, flat-track bullies, which is good, you know, that they're beating those teams that they should, but they're also, you know, really competitive against the good teams. They've got a run of games coming up, testing away games, Manchester City and Everton, which are always difficult games, no matter what's going on in the season. And,

So, yeah, we will know more again in a few weeks' time, Tony. Yeah, we'll know more in May. James, on Saturday, another three o'clock kick-off. I'm having flashbacks. That's three in a row, isn't it? On the Saturday, you know, the Richard Hughes Derby. Have Bournemouth performances actually...

this season, enhanced his reputation a bit? Yeah, I think they have. When you think of how good their recruitment has been and also, of course, the appointment of Areola as manager has proved to be a masterstroke. I think they're such an impressive sideboard, when you think of they are great to watch, play on the front foot, they're positive players,

And, you know, suddenly this game on Saturday has taken on kind of the kind of importance that you thought you'd never attach to a trip to the south coast and, you know, playing at such a tight little ground as that. And of course, you know, Liverpool had an absolute walk in the park there last season, won 4-0. But, you know, they have slipped up there previously. I think back to the one before that when, what was it, six days after Stamford,

sticking seven past Man United and Liverpool somehow managed to absolutely deliver a stinker of a performance and got beat down at Bournemouth. So, yeah, I think, you know, Kluivert especially, you look at the form he's in at the moment. You know, I think Semenyo as well.

been an absolute, you know, brilliant sign in for them. And they're dangerous. That's the thing. I mean, it's, it's not unthinkable that, that they could actually sneak into the champions league places. I think what they only, there's only a point behind Man City and fourth at the moment, Bournemouth, which is crazy when you just assume that, you know, Bournemouth is about, you know, survival and, you know, retaining their status as a top flight club. But, uh,

Yeah, that's why I think that will definitely be in Slott's head when he picks that team for PSV because it is a quick turnaround as well. I know they're staying in Eindhoven Wednesday night. So then you come back Thursday, that's recovery. And then you're flying down to Bournemouth, aren't you? Friday evening.

So, you know, that quick turnaround, I think, will certainly be in his head. And then I think he will go strong, really strong, for the second leg of the Carabao semi. Because then, of course, three days after that, he's got Plymouth away in the FA Cup. And I think Plymouth will be the one where, again, he's probably picking a team there with one eye on the Merseyside derby. Yeah, definitely. I mean...

We talked about how imperious Van Dijk has been, but you'd think against Bournemouth he's going to have his hands full. I think so, Tony. It feels like a second Nottingham Forest game, almost. Yeah.

Robocops? Robocops of Val? Well, I say that, but they're two centre-halves. I've never seen two centre-halves with the socks around their ankles like them. You wouldn't think they were two. So they're the opposite. Is it Dean Heysen? Is that how you say his surname? He looks like a real player to me. He's been outstanding for Bournemouth.

And the remarkable thing about them, you know, is the injury record that they've had and Iriola has managed to overcome that significant problem. It's going to be a really interesting match for all sorts of different reasons. I thought only Arsenal got injuries. That's true, yeah. That is another discussion for another podcast, James. But, you know, they've had a great season. Iriola, I think maybe in a few years' time, will be...

Sort of in contention for one of the top jobs, certainly. I think he probably...

Has to get them into Europe and maybe get them to a final, at the very least, if not win a final, to really sort of consolidate his reputation. He's obviously done great things in Spain before as well. But I like the way they play. You know, they're more aggressive, more attacking than, say, Nottingham Forest. I think that showed at the weekend. I mean, they cut them open time again. And on this occasion, you know, the Forest keeper didn't save them. Play with good width as well. Yeah.

I can understand why Liverpool might be interested in one or two of the players. You know, there's been talk about Kerkers, who looks like a really good player to me. James has mentioned some of them already. Semenyo, he's a player that I really like. I like his story as well. Somebody who's sort of developed quite late, but he's a real handful. So they're a good side and it's going to be a tough game for Liverpool.

Play the same for me. Sort of shape as well, a 4-2-3-1 with the sort of fluid midfielders at the top of that apex. Justin Clive has been...

So as you can probably tell, I watched extended highlights of their game at the weekend and I was just like, wow, these are really, really good. It was the first time I watched a game of football in the Premier League involving two other teams where I thought, for quite some time, I thought these are really, really good side. So they're not to be underestimated. But that said, you know, a Liverpool team with...

which is confidence, I would always back them to go and get a good result at Bournemouth. James just sort of underlined it there that the fixtures, in terms of the flow of the fixtures, have worked out okay for Liverpool, particularly with that Plymouth game away. I cannot see them playing a very strong team there. But as we said, the bench, you say not a strong team. Some players can't even get on the bench.

So it is a strong team. It's not going to be just a team. You know, like the team that played the Canabao Cup final last year was a team of kids by and large. You know, kids that, you know, untested. But Liverpool have got like sort of a second team almost now that is relatively competitive and could probably go to Plymouth and do a good job. But they need that game in the middle of this run, given the importance of all the other games around it, I'd say.

James, enjoy Eindhoven. I'm sure you will find some magnificent eateries there. I always find the Dutch do good steaks as well.

Tremendous. I'm high on protein at the minute on this health kick, so that sounds good to me. Fantastic, fantastic. So that's it for Walk On, your Liverpool podcast brought to you by The Athletic. Thanks to James and Simon for joining me and you for listening. We'll be back next week before the League Cup semi-final, second leg with Tottenham, and we'll catch you then.