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The Athletic FC Podcast Network.
You know what? You've actually given the answer away because my few words are a question. Has something happened? Yeah. James. Still the champions. That, despite anything that's happened, is the main thing, the most important thing.
And that's what Simon and James think. Here's what you're thinking. Marcus Marouth, always a legend. Jimmy Pilnich, forgotten Kiev Trent. Just Kiev? How about Paris? Chris Pratchett, Mersey over Trent. Dom O'Brien, deserves epic send-off. To join our community of listeners on Facebook, just search WalkOn Podcast and join the group. After 20 years at Liverpool Football Club, are we leaving at the end of the season?
An early clearance there for a young man for whom it's an especially big night on his senior debut, Trent Alexander-Arnold. It's Alexander-Arnold, oh, he struck it brilliantly! What a moment for the teenager! What a strike! Liverpool 3-0. Corner-taker, quickly, Origi! Yes! Unbelievable! Alexander-Arnold!
It's hard to think of myself as a legend. I think obviously for me I'm just a normal lad from Liverpool whose dreams just come true.
Oh, the sad music. Just desperately trying to turn into a really bad power ballad. I expected Trent, like, you know, to, like, sing him with that sort of dreadful gusto of a karaoke night. Am I just being cynical here, Si? Am I just being cynical? Too many nights in the crock, that's only. Oh, God.
Yeah, two main nights in the Croc, but before they got karaoke. Yeah, for people who don't know, the Croc is a famous pub in Liverpool, which lurches toward karaoke evenings, which is very good, by the way. But yeah, I mean, obviously, I think it's been pretty clear for some time that this moment has been coming, but there's obviously been a huge reaction to it.
I do think a lot of people have been spending a bit too much time focusing on the reaction rather than the decision because it does merit a big reaction. It's a big moment, obviously, in the player's career. It's a big moment in Liverpool's career. People are, I think, disappointed, sad, upset, a little bit concerned, you know, the...
A player who's been brilliant for Liverpool, a great Liverpool player who could have become one of the greatest, in my opinion, had he stayed, is leaving and is going to give his peak years to another club. A club which, OK, they're not a domestic rival, but they've beaten Liverpool twice in Champions League finals in the last seven years, come up against Liverpool regularly in the competition and earlier rounds.
This sort of thing hasn't happened for some time at Liverpool. I think the last player to leave or want to leave was Philippe Coutinho. Obviously, that didn't end well for him. It ended particularly well for Liverpool. But as well, you've got Trent. He's a local player. This really hasn't happened before in this context. You know, Steve McManaman left...
when Liverpool were some way off, as did Michael Owen. Steven Gerrard thought about leaving just after they won the Champions League, but ultimately he didn't go. A local Liverpool player leaving the club just after they've won the league, a very good local player with huge talent, huge influence over the team for a long period of time, is leaving really for, I might argue, the first time in the club's history. Somebody might correct me on that. So,
it's a big moment and it merits a big reaction I think people are going to feel sort of different ways and are quite entitled to in my opinion Yeah James bank holiday an attempt to not quite bury the bad news but to minimise its impact I was a thought taken from a media perspective a nice relaxing day for you
The first part of it was certainly busy. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think obviously there was no kind of surprise or shock value, was there? I think it's been clear for quite some time that this was the way things were going to end up. And I think it was just a case of when was it going to be formally announced? And I think clearly Trent didn't want to do it whilst...
the title race was still you know not mathematically wrapped up so I think that kind of that was why it dragged on as long as it did it I know he also he was determined that he wasn't gonna wait until after the last game of the season because I think there was a school of thought that you know will he almost like wait till after the Palace game the trophy lift the parade and then come out and say it but he felt that the right thing to do was was no to do it before that
but after the title had been won to ensure that there weren't, you know, you don't want to create an unnecessary distraction. And then of course, I think even like last week before going to Chelsea, you think it's,
is that the right time just before you go to Stamford Bridge? Probably not, especially with Conor Bradley only being fit enough to make a cameo roll off the bench. So, yeah, I can see why he waited until Monday. And I think the reaction has been, what I've seen online has been similar to amongst people I know and friends and even family. I think it really does divide opinion between those who say, do you know what, after 20 years of his life,
good luck to him. He can do what he wants and others that are really hurt and think, why on earth would you walk away from a team that's just won the league? Si, one of the things I thought was most fascinating about the whole tearful departure speech and the piano, I'm going back to the piano, I love the piano, it's moved me. Yes.
I'm going to hear those notes in my head all day and all night. But the thing that struck me, there was no mention of where he was going. Yes. Yeah. Well, a contract hasn't been signed as yet. So I suppose that would explain why. So it's quite possible that you pitch up at like Trammere. I mean, they were all white. They're in the midst of a takeover. I mean, after all, Trent is...
looking to take himself out of his comfort zone and test himself elsewhere. So why not Tranmere? That would be an ultimate test. There's nothing comfortable at Birkenhead either. What a personal journey, Darabee. I mean, they've got their own takeover going on at the moment, which has gone on for about 10 months. Who thought we'd start speaking about Tranmere? Joe Takapina, Donald Trump's former lawyer, trying to take over the club. I mean, that's probably worth a podcast in itself. But...
Yeah, I mean, Real Madrid have obviously got the Club World Cup coming up in the US in June. Real Madrid would quite like to have him in situ for that competition. So let's see what happens over the next few weeks. I mean, it would make sense for me...
Liverpool to release him from his contract a bit earlier. Obviously, he wouldn't be playing for Liverpool anyway. Save them a bit of money and possibly get a bit of cash for him in the end as well. 27p. They'll pay you at this stage. There's a story about £900,000, I believe, in one of the Madrid papers this morning. It's obviously not £90 million, but better than nothing. Yeah, true, true. You know, it's a...
James, all the time we thought that he was down Bellingham's ear saying, come to Anfield, come to Anfield, when in fact it turns out it was the other way round.
Yeah, although I think the Bellingham link can probably be kind of overdone a little bit. I don't think it came down to, I really just want to play my club football alongside you, Bellingham. Those piano chords suggest bromance. I just think it's the lure of Madrid, isn't it? And you can loathe them, many people do, but
they are an absolute global powerhouse, aren't they? And the success they've had in the modern era. And yes, you can point to the fact, hang on a minute, they look like a bit of a mess at the minute. And there's a fair bit of upheaval, obviously, Ancelotti on his way out. And, you know, look at how they got dumped out of the Champions League by Arsenal. But they're Real Madrid, aren't they? They'll, you know, Xabi Alonso will take over there this summer. He'll be given loads of money to spend. They'll refresh and they'll be contenders, won't they? So I think...
I don't really think the Bellingham link, from what I've been told, wasn't particularly important. I mean, yeah, of course, it's bound to help him settle in in the Spanish capital, isn't it? But I don't think it was like, well, I just want to play my club football with Jude Bellingham. I think the appeal of Real Madrid goes a lot further than that. And I think for all the emotion that this decision and announcements triggered, you can't really get away from the fact that what Trent ultimately wants, Liverpool just couldn't give him, which...
he wanted to try something new. Now, whether it works or not, only time will tell. But he wants to step out of his comfort zone. He wants to take on a new challenge, try and prove himself to a new manager, a new set of teammates. You know, it's going to be, I'd say, a very unforgiving spotlight. And it's a risk because, you know, you're walking away from kind of like the collective arm around your shoulder that he's had at Liverpool for all of his career. But
But ultimately, that's what he's decided he needs to do for his own career. What's he going to say when he finds out Madrid is not Spanish? You know what? That is, in my opinion, the most overrated lager. Like, loads of people loved it in Liverpool initially. But, I don't know, it's just not good. I mean, Miles Madrid, isn't it? I mean, he's not... This is the thing, I mean...
I hear people say, well, he's going for the lifestyle, isn't he? He's going to be living, I suspect, in the same air-conditioned palace that he lives in, in Cheshire. I remember Steve McManaman, when he went there, there were tales of him being able to go out and socialise a bit more in Madrid. Obviously, he was a high-profile player then, but he'll be living on the outskirts of Madrid in a nice place with a villa, which has a pool, which he might be able to go in a little bit more often than he would do when he's...
when he's in Cheshire. So, I mean, I'm not sure I quite subscribe to that idea. Footballers, wherever they live, tend to live similar lifestyles these days. You know, in this compound lifestyle. So, I think, you know, if we're being fair to him, he probably, well, he is going for the football. You know, he's going because he wants to win more and he wants to
He thinks that he can achieve something that lots of people don't think that he can achieve, you know, in terms of becoming Ballon d'Or, a right back winning the Ballon d'Or. I'm not so sure. To get himself in that contention, he needs to provide a lot of assists. But the problem that he's got is if he does that, it's more than likely that somebody at the top end of the pitch is banging the goals in. Mbappe. Mbappe. So I just don't see the logic around that. It's a decision which...
It's not without its risks. We've seen recently Mbappé, who from my opinion, the best player in world football at the moment, getting whistled by Real Madrid fans. That's a pretty embedded cultural thing, but it just shows you that Mbappé, for everything that he's done in the game, if he's not playing well, the fans will get on his back. If that happens with Trent, it'd be interesting to see how he reacts to that because although he's had a lot of criticism recently,
you know, from various people, whether it's in the media or online for some of his performances inside Anfield and, you know, the away, travelling away fans, they have always supported him, you know, audibly, tried to get behind him. So that will be a new thing for him. I know he's probably, you know, tougher than maybe people think, but he has gone there to basically to try and do something that in his head hasn't really been achieved. And that is because
the best player in the world and become the first right back to do it. But I just think it might be beyond them, really. Those trophies, no matter how well you play...
you know I think the last defender to win a Ballon d'Or was Fabio Cannavaro and that was because Italy won the World Cup is Trent Alexander-Arnold going to win the World Cup with England maybe not is he going to be the captain of England Cannavaro won that because he was the captain of Italy you know all these things have certain little take-offs it doesn't necessarily matter how well you play at certain times it's
you know, you've got to have certain status within the dressing room and the hierarchy of the club or the country that you play for. And Trent's a little bit off, start from scratch at Real Madrid. And he's obviously not even a first team, a first choice pick with England at the moment. So a lot has to happen for him to get there. For me, I think he's given up a lot leaving Liverpool. I think he's a great Liverpool player.
He should be remembered for all the things, you know, that he's achieved on the football pitch. But I actually think had he stayed for the rest of his career, he could have been right up there with Gerrard and Dalglish for me. And he's given that up now. He's never going to be regarded in that way. And I actually think that sort of immortality, maybe I'm just saying that, you know, because I would have liked him to stay at Liverpool. But I just think that, achieving that would be greater than coming back from Madrid with a load of trophies and maybe a Ballon d'Or. Yeah.
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Well, both James and Simon have written fantastic pieces for The Athletic about Trent's decision. James, you did the inside story, while Simon, you tackled the issue of him walking away from his boyhood team, which you've just talked very, very eloquently about. But both pieces talk about the significance of the summer of 2023. He was named vice-captain after James Milner left. But the thing, and we've talked about it on this pod before, you know,
Why didn't they sort out a new contract for him two years ago? James? Yeah, I think it's a key part of the story. There's no doubt about that because Trent had never got down to his last two years before. He'd signed extensions in 2017, 2019 and 2021 with Liverpool regularly wanting to reward his development and
and growing importance to the team with improved terms. So, you know, he expected that to happen in the summer of 2023. It didn't. I think, you know, the upheaval behind the scenes was a big part of that. If you remember rightly, it was around that time that Julian Ward stepped down as sporting director. Liverpool had had quite a long time to try and find a replacement, but they
they couldn't recruit someone they thought was good enough for the long term. So they end up with the stopgap of Jörg Schmadke, who was essentially recommended by Jürgen Klopp's agent. Schmadke didn't speak to the media much, but when he did, he basically described himself as Klopp's assistant and a facilitator of transfer deals. Schmadke, obviously, his priority that summer was the big midfield rebuild and the four players that Liverpool brought in. And then, of course, it's only what
four, five months after that, that Jürgen Klopp informs Mike Gordon that he wants to step down at the end of the season. So, of course, then it's like, well, we can't open talks with anyone now because Klopp isn't going to lie to a player's face and say, you know, yes, these are the plans for the future and all the rest of it. And then obviously once everyone else learns the news in the January of 2024, every player is then, well, I want to wait and see
who's the manager, where do I fit in, what does he think of me? You know, that's just common sense. So that was kind of like how we reached probably around this time last year. I mean, it was actually April that obviously Richard Hughes, when he came in as sporting director, the big thing initially was to recruit Klopp's successor. But his first call in the job was to Trent Alexander-Arnold's agent to make that introduction. And then before the end of April last year was the opening offer
to them submitted but despite various offers at different points over the course of this season
I think probably from early in the new year onwards, there was a kind of growing sense of resignation at Liverpool. And then ultimately those talks ended in early March. And that was, it was during the March international break that Trent went and saw Slott, knocked on his door at Kirby and told him he'd made the decision to leave. So, James has just explained what happened and that's great. But for me, there's still a big gap there. I don't care.
care whether they didn't have a sporting director I don't care what Jörg Schmadacher was doing at the time someone from connected with Fenway Sports Group has got to get off the jacksie and they've got to go and get this deal done I mean Billy Hogan could he have done it Mike Gordon or even John Emery himself this was a big deal yeah
They've let it slide too far. It's only speculative, it's a speculative comment maybe, but I do sometimes think that owners take the loyalty of local players for granted a little bit. Oh, Trent, he's going to be Captain Eelsign eventually.
Or are they just taking the eye off the ball completely? I mean, we started the conversation talking about Jude Bellingham and it's a pretty influential summer, all things considered, isn't it? Because in an alternative life, Jude Bellingham comes to Liverpool. Liverpool were very serious on him.
decided that it was too much money to spend on one player. Now, that decision might actually be proven the right one because, you know, it allowed Liverpool to get Alexis McAllister. Ah, I think it's been absolutely vindicates. Yeah, I think it might be the right decision. But...
used to say Drew Bellingham could have come in and had a real impact at Liverpool as well I mean I think Alexis McAllister absolutely brilliant sign and there's no doubt about that Zabaslai slightly different I think I still think he could offer a bit more that's a separate debate but if Liverpool get Drew Bellingham maybe there isn't that person in Madrid who just sort of makes him think actually it might be quite you know I wouldn't mind fancying having a go at that myself you know
Now, as James says, that influence can be overstated, but I guess he's got a point of reference to bounce ideas off there. And Liverpool had, at that time, they were coasting a little bit. They had a really bad 2022-23 season. Julian Ward, as James said, had left the club. They had George Schmadeke back.
recruiting, but nobody really in charge of retention. Now, I can understand why Salah and Van Dijk, because of their age, were left longer, but somebody like Trent, his age, he should have just been all over it. They allowed things to slide, in my opinion. I remember speaking to people in that summer, and I was like, you know, what's going on with contracts? And they were just a bit confused by the whole thing. Yeah, everyone was bewildered. Nothing going on, and
Bit by bit, you know, a club the size of Real Madrid, a club that has recruited well in the free transfer market over a number of years, it allows them then to plant the seeds of, well, why don't you come to us? You know, you could become the next right back for the next five or six years at least. You're going to increase guarantee of winning trophies, everything else.
Try that lifestyle on your personal journey. That argument you can have with them then. So I think Liverpool and FSG are partly responsible for this outcome. It's just a reminder that if you take your eye off the ball, even temporarily, there can be long-term consequences for that. It's two years ago. Maybe you thought, there's no chance of him leaving, he'll stay.
Sadly, he's gone. They've allowed Trent to take sideways glances and think about his own position in the world. And if we're being very fair to Trent, Alexander-Arnold as well, I think that idea of going to Real Madrid certainly predates this season. And at the start of the season, nobody was predicting that Liverpool would win the league under Arne Slott. They've gone and won the league, incredible achievements, brilliant performances.
People are saying, well, this is an opportunity for Trent to go on and be a part of the next stage at Liverpool. You know, they're ahead of the other clubs. But at the start of the season, when this idea is floating around...
There's no guarantee of that at all. If you're a player in your 25, 26, do you really want to dedicate your best years to a period that was potentially looking like transition? Yeah, yeah. Everyone thought it was a transition. Internally, they thought it was transition. Yeah. It was never too late, of course, to check back and think, well, actually, I'm giving up a lot here, you know. But, um...
It's not just as simple as one part of this, you know, good and bad. You know, I think there's lots of context behind it. And I would hope that FSG would learn from this lesson because it's a very costly lesson for them. You know, financially, you know, given how proudly they operate on checks and balances, to lose a player of that quality, of that influence, somebody who could have become one of the all-time greats for absolutely nothing,
is negligence. I agree. I agree. James, obviously, Slott will play him towards the end of the season. Would you play him? I mean, I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I think it's a tricky one because on the one hand, I certainly wouldn't have an issue if Slott did play him because I think no matter where you stand on this, and I understand a lot of the anger around the fact, you know, running his contract down and going for nothing, I think...
I think it would be very harsh if anyone seriously thought that at any point he'd kind of thrown the towel in along the way and his commitment had wavered. Because I think, aside from the obvious in terms of his performances, Slott is absolutely ruthless. We've seen that. There's no sentiment attached to Slott continuing to pick him. It's because Alexander-Arnold's attitude and application has remained spot on. And yeah, I'd say he had a wobble, didn't he, around that.
the Man United home game at the start of January, where clearly his head was absolutely frazzled with all the noise at the time. But he soon put that behind him. So on the one hand, I'm kind of leaning more towards not just because I think you need to look to the future and Conor Bradley is the future. And obviously I was down at Stamford Bridge for that absolute non-event of a game on Sunday. And I thought Conor Bradley provided one of the few positives for Liverpool with his
energy and dynamism when he came off the bench in the second half so I'd still like to see Trent play a part in the in the last few games because and and one thing that really annoys me is I see people saying he shouldn't be part of the trophy lift or he shouldn't be part of the parade that is absolute nonsense
It was just daft, that. Yeah, the idea that you'd have bouncers on the bus to like, no, you're not coming in. No. He has played a big part in this title triumph and he deserves to be a full part of those celebrations.
But yeah, game time over the last three games of the season is something a bit different, isn't it? Because I think, yes, I certainly would give him the chance to be involved. But I think Bradley is the future now, isn't he? And I think the big thing with Conor Bradley is can he stay fit? Because the talent is absolutely undeniable. Yeah. Si, I mean, I might say to him, get used to the bench. You might be seeing more of it than you think in the Bernabeu. Yeah.
Yeah. Well, he's got to get past Danny Carvajal, hasn't he? I know he's had a bad injury, but great player. He's vice-captain of the club as well. You know, so he's got a very influential position in the dressing room. I tend to find vice-captains can be actually a lot more stubborn than captains and immovable objects, as sort of James Milner became at Liverpool, you know. Or Carragher before him. Or Carragher before him. They don't give up the positions easily, vice-captains. So...
Yeah, I mean, I'm just thinking it's not about Trent Alexander-Arnold. It's about what's right for the team, I guess. And I think Conor Bradley is going to have to, in theory, get used to playing a lot more games. So I would like to see him play a bit more. I remember halfway through the season, after the way he played against Real Madrid, to be honest, I was thinking, well...
If he's going to stay, you've got to run with him now. But as James says, it's his injury record that concerns me. I would be majorly surprised if Liverpool go into next season without another right back because...
He has missed a lot of games, Conor Bradley. And then you've got Joe Gomez, who is okay at right back. He's more of a centre-back, but you've got his injury record. I really think that they have to address that position. I don't think he can afford to just say, well, let's Conor Bradley now, and we hope that he stays fit. You've got to give him the best chance of performing. He's still a young player, relatively late into the Liverpool system as well. That's where my concern is. I know there are some players who...
have come late into academy football and they find it that has an impact actually because their bodies aren't used to playing and training and
as regularly as they have to this has happened before with academy players you know i'm not saying it's a problem that can't be overcome but i do wonder whether that's a bit of an issue for do you reckon i was going to say do you reconcile that that that makes it a bit of a tricky dilemma in terms of what you do in terms of strengthening it right back because it's not like it would be it'd be more clear-cut wouldn't it if you had a deputy who probably was like an okay backup but not
not absolutely top draw and then you would kind of like it would you it would be 100% clear you've got to go and spend big and recruit a proper elite right back but Bradley is almost so good that it would almost be stupid wouldn't it to spend especially we know that Liverpool have got a you know with having to balance the books and juggle their resources you don't want to over commit to right back because there's other areas of the squad that need strengthening but at the same time
And it's, as you said, Bradley is still young enough to get beyond, you know, lots of young players have succession and muscle issues, don't they? He's only, what is he, 21 years of age? But there is just that question mark, isn't there? I think he's played 54 games for Liverpool. That's all. The way I look at it is, they probably need a simicast type right back. Somebody with a bit of experience who they don't have to pay a load of money for. But somebody who, I mean...
again he's another player that divides opinion but I think providing he doesn't play every game you can almost get away with Simakas because he does offer you something going forward I think you know his delivery his crossing ability very good defensively not so good wouldn't necessarily play him in the big games but you know he's actually I would say he's contributed towards the back end of the season he's actually played ahead of Andy Robertson
So somebody of that profile, I would say, somebody with a little bit more experience who's looking to make a jump that you don't have to spend a huge amount of money on. I suppose that's the best way of putting it. But of course, we've got Richard Hughes and the scouting department. They should be all over these sort of players, really. They've done it before. I don't think you don't have to go and spend...
huge sums of money on every single position I think if you want to be successful in my head I think Connor Bradley he's a very different player to Trent you know he's a bit more he's a bit more aggressive with his running you know he puts himself he's more Andrew Robertson than Trent yeah he is yeah he is and I like it a lot I like everything about him I just worry about his injuries really but to answer your question to
Tony, I would not say, well, Trent, you're not on the team because you're leaving. You know, it'd be more about, well, what is right for Liverpool? What is right for Liverpool in these games? And is playing Connor Bradley a good thing for him? Yes. Well, against Arsenal, I would say yes. Another big opponent, a game where Anfield's going to be rocking.
I would say, arguably, you know, playing him in that championship game, the last game when they were winning the title, he'll gain a lot from that experience as well. So it's all about Conor Bradley now. It's not about Trent really. Unfortunately, he's the past. It's not about the decision he's made. It's about what is the future. And if they feel that Conor Bradley's not ready fitness-wise, don't play him, play Trent. If they feel that there's a risk of him picking up an injury...
play Trent but if you feel that Conor Bradley is ready to play these games and he's going to get something out of these games you play Conor Bradley
There's a bigger issue, isn't there, James, than getting a full back? Because, let's face it, full backs should be the easiest and cheapest position to fill. How are they going to replace his creativity? Now, that is the really big issue. It is. I actually do think that losing Trent this summer probably isn't the kind of massive hammer blow to the way the team sets up.
that it probably would have been under Klopp. Because I just think... Oh, yeah, yeah. I think we've definitely seen the style of the team evolve and you look at how influential the midfield are now in a more controlled possession-based approach. And, you know, Trent had been kind of playing more as an authentic full-back, hadn't he, than kind of what we'd seen previously where he literally was...
the one who made Liverpool tick as a creative force. So, yeah, they're going to have to change and evolve. And, you know, in the same way, obviously a completely different type of player, but Simon mentioned at the start of the pod about Coutinho. And I remember when Coutinho left, it was like, wow, on earth...
can Liverpool so much of Liverpool went through Coutinho when they attacked and I remember Klopp at the time saying that almost other players would just go well Coutinho will it'll create something we'll just leave it and he said it makes you more unpredictable when you have to change and you have to have a kind of a threat from different areas so so yeah it's I mean we know that
The idea that you go and recruit a similar type, I just don't think there is. No, there's no similar type. No, no. So you just have to change. And like I said, I think it's just a fascinating summer because obviously we know Liverpool are in the market for a left-back as well. And if they go for Kierkegaard, Bournemouth talking about a £45 million price tag, Dean Hoysen in the centre-half, £50 million price tag.
So it's like, are you really going to commit big money as well to a right back? When obviously the other huge priority has to be a new number nine because the need for that is absolutely compelling. So yeah, I think it is fascinating to see how Liverpool deal with that because Bradley is just so good, isn't he? They just need to...
you know, try and ensure that, um, that they can get 30 to 40 games out of him. Hmm. Well, what about his, say, his relationship with Salah? Apparently you've written a book on Salah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we know that. Um, yeah,
Is it up for any award? No, it didn't win, James. It didn't win any of the awards. Of course, did you mention that? They gave us a book about Djokovic. Probably Real Madrid's influence. But no, that's... I mean, that changes things. I mean, you look at the performance of the team. Pick the most obvious example, the League Cup final against Newcastle without him. And it's...
the creativity I mean you're not going to get that from a full back so it needs to come from the midfield can you see any of the current midfield providing that or do they need to buy some of that in well I think the league cup final is a good example of the sort of thing that I'm talking about Gerald Kwan's a I think very good player he's not a right back you know he did okay in the league cup final he's not a right back but
I think a lot of Salah's success this season has come, you know, from Trent's early passing. You know, we discussed this before. He sort of shovels it down the line, really, and gets Salah into play quickly. And, you know, Salah's played well as well when Conor Bradley's been in the team as well. You know, I think you've just got to get somebody who is naturally a right-back playing right-back, who has got an understanding of the position a bit more.
them playing a centre-half there who just isn't quite as comfortable. I think it's very evident when that happens. So, yeah, I mean, Salah's game, as we know, has changed. It's not...
you know, one-to-one, he's not quite as effective as he used to be. But if you get him into space early, he can really hurt you. So I've been surprised by Slott's style of football because it wasn't quite what I witnessed when he was at Feyenoord. You know, he did actually have full-backs drifting in fields, centre-halves almost going out wide at certain times.
He's delivered a team at Liverpool that's a bit more orthodox, really. Full-backs are full-backs. You know, further up the pitch, the midfielders are there to dribble and create the space for forwards to be effective. So that's a very simplistic way of looking at it, but that's just my interpretation. So I'm sure, I mean, it'll be interesting to see what they do with Salah. I sometimes think, I wonder whether they'll...
he'll play him a bit more centre-forward, where he has had some joy over his time at Liverpool. He's been very good as a centre-forward. He's very good with his back-to-goal now. He brings other people into play. But then that would require another signing in his position, I guess. So maybe that won't happen. I mean, I'm not too worried about the impact it has on Salah. I just think they need somebody to understand that you need to get him into play as quickly as possible to give him the space to affect the game. James.
We've got Canarte heading into his final 12 months of his contract. Are there any lessons going to be learned there? I hope so, yeah. I mean, what is he, 25? Similar age, isn't he, to Trent? And, yeah, there's a big decision there, isn't there? I think this summer in terms of... Because I was told that there was still quite a hefty gap between what was being demanded and what was on the table. So if a compromise can't be reached, then...
Liverpool are going to have to consider their options. Do you run the risk of losing him for nothing in the summer of 2026?
or do you cash in in the upcoming window I think I think obviously it's the way that these things are balanced it's like well what essentially could you get for him what's the market and what's the value of keeping him for that extra year and you you kind of like balance that up in terms of what what's best because you know it's it's probably a different type of scenario but I remember when Alden would be an example where it was pretty clear that he wouldn't sign a new contract and
And I think Liverpool got offered 20, 25 million for him of the year to go. But it was, they essentially decided, well, no, his value to us for this upcoming season is worth a lot more than pocketing 20, 25 million now. And in a similar way that they could have got 20, 25 million for Trent in January. But it was like, why on earth would you do that when, you know, look at the value of winning the league. And obviously at the time, Liverpool still had hopes of winning the Champions League. So, but yeah, there's no doubt that
It's going to be a factor, isn't it? Because it's not a good look to lose players in the peak years of their career for nothing. Liverpool, when they've lost other players...
on free transfers it's been a lot easier to understand you know with people like Firmino you know the back end of his career Oxlade-Chamberlain players who didn't really have you know even if you'd sold them with a year to go didn't really have much much value but Canarte is a very different situation isn't he you know he is an elite centre half and you know you just hope that winning the title with Liverpool and being part of those scenes that he'd have that
that would have hopefully played some part in convincing him that he doesn't want to embark on a new challenge like Trent is about to. And I suppose there's a lot of movement to be done in the next few weeks and a lot of discussions but I've got to say if he doesn't want to stay and you can move him on
then if you're going to lose him, you're going to get rid of Nunes and Kelleher's going to go. Then the idea of buying two defenders from Bournemouth, if indeed they don't get gazumped by Real Madrid, then £100 million doesn't look that much when you take that into account. No. I mean, Dean Howson is a player that's really surprised me, you know, the impact that he's had on the Premier League because you look at him.
You just think he's just got out of bed, him. You know, he's just socks really low. That's not what I think when I look at him, Si. What do you think? Well, I don't think he's just got out of bed. James, do you look at him and think he's just got out of bed? Isn't that a strange thought process, don't you think? Very strange, yeah. And it's also pot calling the kettle. Hey, James, you can't always look as fabulous as you.
But yeah, he doesn't... He's not how you imagine a centre-half to be, really. You know, he's quite a very long and sort of languid... You know, he does... There's a Hanson-esque quality to him, I would say. But in all the games that I've played, you know, he's very good positional sense, excellent. And I couldn't understand if Real Madrid want to sign him, why they would sign him. I mean, I know we said they've had a bad season this season, which they have. They're not going to win any of the major trophies and the manager's going to go. But it's...
but it's still a very young team, Real Madrid. It's a team that could stay together for a long period of time. I guess at centre-half, there's a few questions around that, and that might be why...
they might be trying to sign another centre-half. They've put in a couple of the B-team players this season. Militao is sort of mid to late 20s. David Alaba is beyond that. So they probably do need another centre-half and I can understand why they'd want somebody like him who's obviously very good on the ball. But I would say, you know, what's impressed me about him is
in the Premier League, very good in the air. You never see anybody sort of push him around. And he's obviously a very young player who could play for a long time.
I guess from his perspective, it's whether he thinks going to Real Madrid, I'm going to play every week. I think somebody of that ability at this stage of his life probably does need to play every week and going in alongside Virgil van Dijk, I mean, it'd be a great learning curve for him. I mean, it sounds like I'm trying to sell the club to him, but I think he'd be a real good sign. But as we know for Real Madrid, they can be very persuasive, can't they? Yeah, they can, they can. I think this is the first sort of
in what's going to be an extremely busy summer, James? Yeah, yeah. I think it's going to be a really interesting window for Liverpool, I think. A real contrast to last summer where with all the kind of
upheaval off the pitch, but obviously Edwards coming in and Hughes coming in and slot and then having to kind of rebuild the entire football operations and, you know, the changes behind the scenes in terms of the scouting network and the way they do things. It was the decision last summer was, well, let's stick with what we've got on the pitch, you know, and almost slot will have, you know, like a full season to fully assess the
what needs to be done. And I think now you've got the kind of stability and a structure off the pitch. We'll now see some hefty changes on it because the squad will evolve. We know as brilliantly as Liverpool have done this season, surpassing all expectations, this isn't a squad built to go on winning and to go on winning defensively.
big trophies. It needs strengthening. And although I wouldn't read anything into the game at Stamford Bridge because one team had nothing on the line, another team was fighting for Champions League qualification and it showed, but it did kind of underline what we already know, the left-back, centre-half, centre-forward, these are areas that need to be bolstered. I think there's a lot of opportunity for Liverpool going into this window because I think the
the pulling power of them is huge in terms of attracting new faces and you know as slot said himself any prospective signing watching those celebration scenes at anfield you know why would you not want to be a part of that and then twinned with that you've got a lot of uncertainty surrounding certain players you know people like harvey elliott people like luis diaz and and jota and you're expecting nunez to leave and simakas probably to leave and
Kelleher, obviously, is another one that's expected to move on. So, yeah, it is shaping up to be an absolutely intriguing few months ahead. Well, yes, yes, it is. And it'll be an exciting summer. And we promise never to say the name Trent Alvarez.
Alexander Arnold ever, ever again. So that's it for Walk On, your Liverpool podcast brought to you by The Athletic. Thanks to James and Simon and you too for listening. Well, we probably will mention Trent, but we'll be back later on in the week and we'll catch you then.