Trent's parting gift & possible leadership vacancy
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But first, let's get your three words. Andy, I'm going to come to you first because obviously Simon won't have prepared anything because he never does. Well, mine is very simple, three more points because that's all I can think about as we head towards Sunday. Yeah, so I know you have prepared, I know you have.

I'm turning to more important matters. Where is James? I've been told I was getting a bit of stick last week for not being there and suddenly, you know, he's, he's off.

again during the season and i was not just showing the season sony the winner the title this week imagine he's one of the less than james or not is he yeah well i mean he's eating his way through new york isn't he so i mean probably disrupting five aside games there you know all that sort of stuff so anyway that's what simon and auntie think it's what you're saying joel lafredo so very close

Giles Cheong, Trent's parting gift. I hope he's got a few more, Giles. Adam Walsh, leaving in style. And Dom O'Brien, magic moment Trent. To join our community of listeners on Facebook, just search Walk On Podcast and join the group. Simakash with the corner. Van Dijk's in there. Salah's in there. It's close. McAllister, it's bounced out again. United!

Now it's in! So, three points at Leicester, three points away from winning the league. And that's unless Crystal Palace beat Arsenal on Wednesday.

It's pretty good. I mean, we've been saying for ages, haven't we, that the home game against Tottenham was the place and the time to be. Yeah. Is it bad that I sort of want Arsenal to ensure that it knocks it along to Sunday? Is that bad, Tony? No, I don't think that's bad. Not at all. To come this far and win the title without being at Anfield again, I mean, it would be a bit of... I don't want to say it'd be an anti-climax because it wouldn't because you've still won the league, but...

I think that's on everyone's mind really you know you always think of that moment when the referee's final whistle is blown and

seeing the reactions of people inside the stadium. It will be very different of it's thanks to, you know, a late Crystal Palace winner at the Emirates. And I know you have no faith in Arsenal whatsoever anyway. So I'm now getting worried that maybe Palace might do something, even though their, you know, their form ain't great. You know what, Ante? What I'd like, I'd like, even better than the final whistle at Anfield, the collective howl of entitlement, rage, and horror

from Arsenal fans on Wednesday night would be absolutely brilliant. I'd love that. I'd love that because on social media I'm seeing stuff saying, you know, it's basically they've given us the league because of injuries and because, well, they couldn't even be bothered that much and, you know, all that sort of stuff. And it's so ridiculous. So, yeah, what I'd like to do is take a big chunk of salt and rub it into Arsenal's wounds. Yeah, no, we haven't won the league. They've lost it, haven't they? That's the...

that's the nadis of because the Premier League is rubbish apparently but yeah

there might be three English winners of the European competitions this year but we'll let other people have those debates but yeah I mean just on the points of winning at Anfield obviously I was at Burnley yesterday to watch them get promoted and obviously Leeds got promoted as well and I saw on social media there was a bit of talk from obviously Leeds had to wait for the Sheffield United Burnley result and

It's the second time that they've sort of had to celebrate or celebrated promotion outside of the ground, basically, because of the images of all the fans outside the stadium. And obviously, they'd all been shepherded out by the time the game had finished. And I think if they win the league, they're away from home on the final game of the championship season. So it is something that you do sort of, you realise how important it can be, because to have that moment in a stadium is special. And obviously, Liverpool didn't get it last time because of all the...

all the stuff that was going on obviously but even then Liverpool won the title because of Chelsea drawing with City wasn't it so it wasn't even Liverpool getting the final whistle to win a game to win the league type thing so that's why I'm hoping it knocks on to Sunday because hopefully Liverpool will get that moment

Yeah, yeah. I mean, to me, it doesn't matter, sorry, which way it comes. But, you know, I mean, they could still reach 94 points, Liverpool. And if you think then it's a crap Premier League this season, you are deluding yourself. I mean, I do love those AI images of the referees on open-top buses. Because, you know, it's not like we've, you know, sort of...

haven't seen a referee slagging off a Liverpool manager, you know, in the wrong camera or anything. You know, I mean, they all love us. Liverpool gets preferential treatment and everything, doesn't it? You know, the governments have always been very good to us. The football authorities have been brilliant to us. You know, it's... It's bewildering conversation, Tony, really. I mean, I think...

The league, obviously, at the top end has been without drama. I think it's fair to say that. But that doesn't mean it's down to any lack of quality in the league.

And I think what we've got to remember is, if we're being fair, Manchester City, with all the context around how they've achieved it as a club, nevertheless, have delivered a team that, in my view, is the best team in Premier League history. So that quality of football is so high that they delivered over a long period of time. Anywhere else, any other style of football that wins the league at their expense is never going to be quite as scientific or...

as pleasurable to watch as it might be for some people with the best players in the team. This Liverpool team is slightly different to that. Now, you know, as we discussed, there are teams that are doing very well in Europe. I think you only need to look at the FA Cup semi-finals to see that the quality of the lesser likes have improved. There's three teams in the FA Cup semi-finals that are there by right, they haven't got there by fluke, the good sides. I think Liverpool have had to beat...

probably a lot more decent sides this season than ordinarily they might have to, to go and win the league. So it's just not an, I just think it's an easy argument because it has been without drama or incidents that Liverpool have seen like they're going to win it for such a long period of time. Meanwhile, you know, you've got the same situation in the relegation zone, but there's quite a lot of interest in the Champions League qualification places going into the last five weeks, which again shows me that,

There are teams who you wouldn't ordinarily put there, who've improved dramatically, who are now pushing the top teams that may be falling away a little bit. I don't remember anybody saying how rubbish the Premier League was when City were winning at a canter by such a high number of points. There didn't seem to be many moans and groans about that. So it's quite a strange argument, which I don't hate.

too much attention to but have just given you a two minute answer to yeah yeah two minutes I was timed 16 and a half minutes a United Kingdom an all comers record for an answer on a podcast no but no you're right it's abject nonsense and you know anyway we need to talk about Trent don't we Andy well

you saw what we've missed and what we may miss with him at Leicester I mean he scored a goal with his left foot his first goal with his left foot oh come on you're mocking us now Trent if you're leaving showing us how good you are I know yeah he was just getting that in wasn't he just before he does leave so no one can ever say well he wasn't a Liverpool legend because he didn't score a goal yeah he was so one footed yeah but yeah you do you felt like when you saw him sort of standing on the sideline that he was going to come on and

and have an influence on the game because that's, it's one of the ways footy works, isn't it? There's always sort of those, there's always little storylines within games that sort of, that happen and you sort of can just predict what's going to happen and, you know, it was nice for them to get that moment. Obviously, the celebrations were emphatic, it's fair to say, and I think there was a lot of raw emotion that he was letting out and, you know, he has had to sit on the,

and obviously he hasn't been able to contribute in recent weeks but also he's had to I guess see a lot of because of what we think is leading to the situation in the summer he's had to see a lot of criticism come his way and I'm sure he's

he's been eager to sort of answer that back and show that well yes who knows what his future will be right now he's a Liverpool player and right now he wants to win the league and he's as desperate to do that as anyone else so yeah it was a nice moment and again it was a reminder that he has the ability to change a game and stay in a game and be the person who moves the needle for Liverpool and

you know and can win him a three points whether that's from a pass from a cross or from you know from a goal usually not the not the latter but on this occasion he was in the right place at the right time and

It needed something like that because Liverpool were doing their best to sign not to score, especially for that goal. Yeah, definitely, definitely. I see, Si. He's the first Liverpool defender to come off the bench to score a winner since Martin Skirtle. I mean, who comes up with these stats or snippets? But anyway, the celebration, what do you take from that, Si? I mean, throwing the shirt everywhere, the knee slides. Have you ever done a knee slide? No.

No, I haven't. I've never taken my shirt off or done a knee slide or scored a goal. I bet you James has done both in the wrong game. Yeah, 100%. 100%. Blowing kisses to the wrong fans as well, probably. No, yeah. I mean, it was funny because I watched the game in the dispensary in Liverpool.

And obviously Trent had just come on and I wouldn't say he got a warm reception from some of the Liverpool fans, put it that way. So that developed into a conversation with the mate who he was with, you know, about where he rests now, how we feel about him. Honestly, just not as reporters or journalists, but just as fans really. And, you know, it's fair to say, you know, we were sort of a bit frustrated by Liverpool's inability to take the lead. And, yeah.

suddenly he pops up. It was like the timing was just perfect in terms of the context of the conversation. I'm not one of these people who tells others how they should celebrate a goal or... I mean, he's obviously... I'd imagine he probably heard the smattering of boos from the away end. And people are entitled to react whichever way they want about a local player leaving. I'm sort of... I see both sides of it. I sort of think...

I think he's making a mistake going there, if I'm being totally honest. I'm sure we'll get into that conversation when the time is right. But for him, I can understand why he celebrated that way, yeah? I mean, he's just now got the argument forever that he's scored a goal that has sent Liverpool one step away from winning the title and putting it at Anfield as well, potentially. So...

It's a big moment in his career, in his life. And I do wonder whether when he was looking into the crowd and looking at the reaction of the way he made people feel, I mean, he's never going to get that feeling again at Real Madrid. People will never feel the way they did in that moment, the way he did, the way the fans did. Just a perfect story. You know, it was just a great story, wasn't it, Tony? You know, I suppose as journalists, we're always looking for...

that sort of arc and it was just like absolutely perfect wasn't it I couldn't believe it when he's running away thinking oh yeah he's like sort of it had to be him didn't it it did it did you know and people always say you couldn't write it and the stuff they say there about happens on an almost weekly basis in sports so you know it's yeah actually you could you could and we do we do Marvel Studios Thunderbolts will take the world by storm yeah

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I'm not going to speak on my situation. I'm not going to go into details, but these days like today are always special. Scoring goals, playing, winning games, being close to winning titles as well, being in title races. They're special moments that will live with me forever. I'm glad to be a part of them. Well, Andy, it's beginning to feel real, isn't it now, with the other two signing? And do you think there's any possibility of a late change of heart? No.

If there was anything that was going to change, I think Si is right. I think him looking into that crowd and sort of realising that this is probably the last time this is going to happen, then that would be it. But yeah, I think it's fair to say that that's not going to be the case. I think his answer in the interview he did afterwards was pretty telling. And I think Slott as well in the pre-match press conference when he was asked about Trent, obviously off the back of the other two signing. I think, again, his answer was pretty telling in that interview.

he's made it clear at points during the season that he's wanted Salah to stay and he's wanted Van Dijk to stay and I don't think he's ever sort of said that with Trent and he was sort of given a nice easy lay-up to basically do that so it sort of makes it very clear of where the situation's going but yeah it is beginning to feel real and I think it was the fact that he was on the pitch and playing football again because he's sort of been this figure in the shadows hasn't he sort of

because he's been injured since the news broke. We've not really seen him at all. And so it was sort of him reminding everyone that he exists. He's not this thing that we just talk about and contributing to a Liverpool win. It does then, you know, project your thoughts further on to what Liverpool will be missing and what they're not going to have next season if what happens is what we expect to happen. So, yeah, it is beginning to feel real and it will continue to because, you know, ultimately we're counting down

the game's till the end of the season, where we will be once we've won the league. And that will be, you know, Countdown to games until his exes, pretty much. Yeah. So, I mean, the thing is, when you analyse how much he'll be missed, you know, we can easily rationalise his performance as a full-back and say, well, he's not really a full-back. He's a bit less than a full-back. But actually, he's a lot more than a right-back as well. I mean, he's been...

arguably the creative force in the best Liverpool sides of the Premier League era and he's got a very very unique skill set and that's going to make him really hard to replace isn't it I think he's brilliant he's one of the the best players I've seen play for Liverpool for the last 25 years highly influential for all the reasons that you say and

I think a couple of things have helped that, you know, that given the way Klopp changed the team for the fullbacks to be the creative forces in the team rather than the midfielders. Also having Salah in front of him to some extent. Sometimes people say, well, Trent has been left exposed because of Salah's attacking instincts, not so good going back. But I actually think sometimes, you know, Salah is such a threat to the opposition that

The opponent is often thinking about stopping Salah before Trent, which has given him more space to play in. And at his best for Liverpool, he's been as influential in terms of his creativity as Steven Gerrard. I think at times, not the same player absolutely, but in terms of that pass that he provides, the variation of his passing and his vision, I just think he's on a similar level.

There are a few areas where he's not on a similar level, but so he's going to be a massive loss. It was a strange performance from Conor Bradley because I thought the first 20 minutes he was on the ropes a little bit. But then second half, I think we saw what he can offer that maybe Trent doesn't offer quite so much in the, he's got that dynamism. I like it when he breaks forward, you know, that sort of, he's not, he's not afraid of taking a fall back on.

And that's where I think Trent's game has slightly changed over the last few years. I think him actually taking his top off reminded us of a few things, you know, because when he first came to the Liverpool team, he was quite wiry, wasn't he? And I think that helped his dynamism, being able to sort of sweep past players he was trying to get beyond. He's more of an athletic player now, you know, his body is bigger now.

He's got much chunkier, hasn't he? Yeah, he has got much chunkier. I don't know whether that's contributed towards the change in style or whether he's done that to become slightly sturdier, you know, defensively, a bit more difficult to get past. I don't know. Only he can explain that, I guess. But he has changed, you know, I suppose as you get older, everybody's body changes, doesn't it? But the bottom line is a player, a top quality player who's 26, who can deliver match winners, even though you're the right back,

on as a substitute, you're always going to miss. Yeah, definitely, definitely. You know, you look at the stats, Andy...

This season in the games he started, with 128-35, 80% win rate, only lost at home to both Nottingham Forest and PSG. And without him in the start of the 11th, nine wins from 16. That's a 56% win rate. You know, James might be in New York, but respect us here with stats, isn't it? Yeah, and to be honest as well, when you think that the home PSG game is one of those ones that we lost...

He was the one who was going to win that game for Liverpool. He'd put in an unbelievable 15 minutes at the start of that second half. You know, he hit the post, took the game by the scuff of the neck, basically. And it felt like if he hadn't got injured, that Liverpool were sort of building towards that equaliser that, you know, would have...

you know, hopefully taking them through. So it was a massive shame. But yeah, I think that shows, you know, the stats there show his influence. There's obviously a few games in there that he missed, like the, you know, PSV away and Plymouth in the cup where Liverpool didn't really try and win the PSV game and the Plymouth one was just one of them days. But ultimately, if he's in the team,

Liverpool are looking like they're going to win games, which is, you know, that's always a good thing. Yeah, yeah. You know, if you've got someone like Trent in the team, you're going from a good start, aren't you? What does it mean, Si, for the leadership group? I mean, he's vice-captain. Take him out the equation, and obviously you've got Virgil van Dijk, who is the leader, without a doubt. You've got Salah, who leads by example, but isn't necessarily a...

A captain. So who's going to fill that leadership void? That's a really good question. There hasn't been much discussion about it, I suppose, isn't it? So Trent is a... That's why we're a better podcast to listen to than anyone else. So Trent's at the moment vice-captain. The other members of this leadership group, which is a very modern term in football, are Alison and Andy Robertson. Now, Andy Robertson, a few question marks around...

Him, well, not his future, but certainly his presence in the starting XI, as evidenced by the fact that Kostas Simakas started against Leicester and started the last two league games as Liverpool are sort of trying to close in on the title. So I ordinarily would expect somebody who's going to start most games to step up and become the vice-captain.

So on that basis, you're probably thinking Salah, aren't you really? I mean, they've obviously given Salah a big new contract and they don't do that unless they think he's going to play a lot. I mean, he doesn't miss many games through injury. Alisson, you know, is a highly respected figure in the dressing room and altogether very different personality, but does miss games as well. So, yeah,

I wonder whether that would count against them. And then, of course, you know, there's a few sort of newer, slightly younger players. Maybe they might...

they might push Alexis McAllister into that sort of group, you know. Zbozlai is captain of Hungary? Yeah, yeah, he should. I mean, he still frustrates me a bit, Zbozlai, but that's just my opinion. No, I'm with you on that. It's a fair point, you know, he is the captain of Hungary, but I suppose he's the best player. It seems to me like he's been given that captaincy

off the back of being the best player, first and foremost. Yeah, definitely. I might be wrong. But yeah, so there's not really anyone you're sort of thinking jump straight into that area. I mean, I've got to say, I think Curtis Jones, I thought that was quite an interesting substitution that he brought Harvey Elliott on first the other day against Leicester. I think he's got to be thinking now, I'm going to be the main local lad. That entails more responsibility now.

He's getting sort of mid-twenties now. I'd expect him to kick on in terms of taking on more responsibility. You're seeing him do more interviews and talking with a bit more authority, which I think is a good thing. I think Alexis McAllister, as I say, he's a World Cup winner. A lot of experience now. Plays every week.

I will be trying to push him into that area because I know he's a subtle but determined presence in the dressing room, you know, and you see that on the pitch. Maybe there might be somebody who they sign who they might elevate. That does happen from time to time. But I think one thing that Slott has certainly sort of

to be in favour of is that longevity he doesn't seem to like radical change does he maybe it's just because he realises he's inherited a decent side that could have a go this season he was used to a lot of change of finals losing players left right and centre

But if I remember correctly, you know, the captain for this team at Feyenoord was Gernot Trauner, a big Austrian centre-half. It wasn't like the big star player. It was just like the big fella at the back who just basically ordered everyone around. Yeah. Well, Andy, that brings me to, you know, would you keep someone like Endo around because obviously captain of Japan? And while he won't be on the pitch, I mean, one of the problems when we're looking at leadership on the pitch and vice captains is that there's a lot of players who...

and not, you know, Shabazzla even, and Curtis Jones, who aren't certain of the place in the team. But you do need experience. I mean, you look in the past, James Milner, his playing time was really limited, but was a positive presence around the place. I mean, so was there a case for keeping someone like Hendo around? Who can also slot in in the back four, if needed?

Yeah, I mean, Slott has gone out of his way, hasn't he, on countless occasions this season to sort of bring up Endo or when he's been given an opportunity to be, well, when he's been asked about Endo, he's always sort of praised him to the hills, really. You know, he's been really, really, really, really positive about him and his attitude. Because I think Endo knows his place in the squad. He knows that 10 minutes, 15 minutes max is probably what he's going to get. And, you know, unless it's a heavily rotated side on the cup or something like that. And

And, you know, for a player to, you know, to have the right attitude is really, really important because the last thing you want is, you know, is just disruptors really and,

I guess there's a case to keep him around. I mean, I would like Liverpool to buy a midfielder in the summer who can sort of, is quite versatile and can do a number of different roles. Because I feel like you do need to upgrade on Endo because you need someone who can play more than 15 minutes at the end of matches. You need someone who can also be thought of as someone who can start in a Premier League game, which clearly doesn't feel Endo is capable

is of that quality but there is a case to keep him around and obviously the problem is that if you do bring a midfielder in then that bumps him further down the pecking order and

And then it's a question of is he making, you know, he might not make a bench on certain weeks if, you know, if the squad is strong and everyone's fit. And that's when you can, you know, suddenly that can have an effect on players and stuff like that. And I doubt it would necessarily for him because I think he's the type of player who knows where he stands in the squad, if you like. But yeah, it'd be an interesting one. But they're the type of characters you want around the group all the time because his professionalism,

is something that is praised all the time and ultimately if you've got people around there who are pointing people in the right direction you're going to have a squad that remains united and remains you know pressing forward in the right way I think with Endo the issue is minutes really because it is a fair you know I know you're not directly comparing Milner with him but Milner played started a lot of games didn't he for Liverpool he was always an active participant whereas

Endo as we said is getting 10-15 minutes at most at the end of games at an age where players that age you want to be playing particularly if you're a senior figure in your international team with Japan so

He might, I don't know, I'm sort of trying to read between the lines, but he might think, you know, particularly Liverpool win the league. It's like, well, aside from winning the Champions League, there's not much more I can achieve here. You know, it might be up to him really in terms of what he wants to do. If it was up to me and if he was happy to stay, I would keep him because as you say, I know listening to some people, you know, certainly at the training grounds helps drive standards, you know, because he does not stop. You know, he's aggressive. You know, he keeps,

training intensity high because he's so determined in the same way that Milner was so players like that are very very valuable and when he does come on he doesn't let you down I don't think he's good enough I think Milner James Milner

was a much better footballer than Endo. You know, let's have it right. Let's have it right. But I think he is a sort of very subtle, he can be a very subtle influence, I think, if he's handled in the right way. But I suspect players of that age, when he plays a lot of football, when they've, you know, they've got a senior role with the national team, they get itchy feet when they're not getting many minutes and that's a problem at Liverpool. Unless slot changes his approach next season and varies his selection a bit more.

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I think next season, Andy, what we're going to see is increasingly Slott putting his stamp on the team and, um...

Van Dijk is the leadership totem for at least two years but yeah we're going to have to see people grow and develop aren't we? Yeah I mean the way Slott's thought about Van Dijk in pre-match before Leicester of his influence not just on the pitch but in the training ground and he referenced Ryan Gravenberg and

you know, sort of putting him in the right directions and sort of, you know, Gravenberg hasn't really experienced a season where he's played so many minutes at this level, at this intensity before and slot sort of, you know, highlighted him as someone Van Dijk's been really not on the back in a bad way but sort of constantly trying to, you know, help him and sort of in that respect and he's, you know, Gravenberg is a type of player who in three, four years you would want to be considering as someone who's

you know, as a leader in the team because, you know, he'd be that, you know, that peak age, if you like. But yeah, you're right. I mean, you've obviously got the leadership group as it is and Salah's going to be around for two more years and leads in his own way because, you know, how many different players have brought up the fact that him being in the gym is the reason why they're in the gym

you know, more than they were in the past and all those types of things. I think size, size McAllister shout was spot on. I think he's the one for me who stands out as the ones to sort of, you know, move into that, maybe move into that group or be someone who you can, you can see as, as, you know, one of the next captains of Liverpool, you know, again, has a very different style to, to, you know, the way Van Dijk operates. Seemingly anyway, I don't think he's particularly vocal in that sense, but yeah,

you know, you don't have to be vocal to be a leader. Gerrard sort of epitomised that in the sense that it was him, he sort of led by actions, whereas Carragher was more of the, you know, the voice, I guess. So I think as long as you've got the right collection of personalities in the team and the right collection of

as long as you're not a completely quiet team, you're probably going in the right direction. It's having that blend and, you know, you are looking at sort of Alisson and Robertson, for example, and sort of how long will they be at Liverpool in two years' time? You know, Andy Robertson's got a contract coming up. Alisson's, I think, two years left on his. So, you do need to start bringing in and this is a job for Slott and I'm sure he's thinking about it of,

who are the players at the moment who I can see as being my next leadership group in two, three years' time. And I think there are a few candidates, you know, we mentioned Sabazlai as well, and there'll be others as well. How hard, say, is it to buy for leadership? You know, looking at players, I mean, you know, in the stats bunker, in the analytics lab. That's another great question, Tony. Full of great questions, Tony.

Well, you're just a shameless flatterer. You think it will make me go easy on you, don't you? Well, you're wrong. You are wrong. You have not mentioned my Salah book today. And we're, what, 35 minutes in and I'm really disappointed. So I'm trying to put you up a little bit with your questions. So, okay. So yeah, just here. We need to stop it and say, for those who don't know, Sia has written a brilliant book about Salah called Chasing Salah that's been nominated for...

every award in the world. It'll probably win the lot. You need to go out and get it. And if you haven't get it, you know, and then, and you know, and if, if you don't like side, buy it to burn it or something. Yeah. You know what, what Tony said there is not true, but I'm not going to kind of correct him to answer the question. I mean, I think now,

It's generally accepted, you know, in terms of leadership, it's not viewed as what it was 20 years ago. I think Liverpool currently have a leader in Virgil van Dijk who has some traits that were similar to Jordan Henderson's, you know, in that they are vocal and they want to see things done in a certain way.

But I would also say, you know, Jordan Henderson was a lead by example sort of character on the pitch as well. You know, he, I think when he was at his best, set the tempo for the Liverpool team. Oh, definitely, definitely. Van Dijk, slightly different on the pitch. He sort of, I think, tries to take the sort of tempo away almost out of a game, take the sting out of a game, particularly if Liverpool are under a little bit of pressure. Yeah.

he's very good at calming people down as well so there's similarities but differences but you can see why both are being captains of Liverpool I think the problem is now you know you sort of you look at what's below there's no continuity there and you were hoping Trent would become and evolve and become that sort of figure in the team and

So in terms of actually buying, I mean, I don't think you can. You know, I mean, I'm just trying to think of players that Liverpool would ordinarily look towards who...

who I'm aware of, who could come in and stamp their authority. I think Liverpool has always been the sort of dressing room where you've got to come in and prove yourself first. You don't get anything given to you. That's often been the culture at Liverpool. You may have been the best player in another team, the captain, the leading goal scorer, whatever. It doesn't matter at Liverpool. You've got to come in and prove it all again. So I would be reluctant for that to happen. I think that is a good thing. We're coming to a new club today.

You get yourself right, you get your performances right, and then you start thinking about, you know, what comes next. So for me, I think a more sensible thing at this moment in time would be to look from within. I think Salah... I think Salah would make sense, to be honest. I mean, I think he's become...

All the stuff that Andy says, you know, about the dressing room, he's taken that more seriously now. I think he's also, it's part of, he's realised that it can be part of his armoury. It's not just about what he does in his performance now, it's the standards that he sets and realising how other players gravitate towards him. And that helps him and it helps the team, also helps the conversations around his contract, as it did for James Milner. You know, he's very smart, very clever. I can imagine he's been watching James Milner for years, thinking,

you know, I've got to do a bit of that. I've got to do that. You know, he's a learner, Salah. So I would, I'm not just saying this because I've written his book. I just think, you know, you've written a book about him. I just think at this moment in time, you know, I just think it's one of the things that seems like quite an easy decision to me. I don't think it needs to be overthought, but it's definitely a worthwhile discussion. I'm glad we've had it.

Yeah, just to go back on the sort of buying leader thing, I think also the age bracket that Liverpool try and buy in makes it a little bit sickier to buy those leaders because when you think of leaders and you're sort of talking about that late 20s who've established themselves and sort of built a career and built a reputation, whereas when you're buying 22, 23-year-olds, they are still finding their way in the game. It's very rare that you'll find someone who can come in and take a dressing room, you

you know, and just have it in the palm of their hand at that age. So I think that that element factors into it. Liverpool almost need to build leaders and they have. It's very rare that you're bringing players in who've sort of already got that and some players have that aura, I guess, of the walk-in addressing room and

and they can have that impact. But when Liverpool are shopping in certain markets, not all the time, because they've obviously done it with Van Dijk and Alisson, who sort of were two who came in and felt like leaders almost instantly. But Salah didn't feel like a leader when he arrived, for example, and he's built himself into a leader. So I think in that sense, it's difficult to buy leaders, but you've got to sort of, as I said, with players proving themselves in a dressing room and building themselves up and building that reputation in a club,

You're sort of building your leaders yourself when you are shopping in the market. Liverpool seem to sort of shop in at the sort of younger age. Any recruitment strategist for Liverpool, you've got to be looking at, you know, the character and the temperament of the person that you're trying to sign. That lends itself to leadership ultimately, because I think to be able to be a success at Liverpool...

that you have to have some of those qualities in you because it's not an easy club to play for. You know, no matter whether they're doing well or doing bad, it presents very intense challenges. So I think naturally, you know, Liverpool should always...

should be and pretty certain are always looking for certain qualities in a personality that lends itself to at some point becoming a leader I mean it was always very clear to me that Virgil van Dijk at some point would become the Liverpool captain from the first six months of his Liverpool career because just the way he holds himself the way he spoke you know the way people gravitated towards him I remember doing an interview with Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain this was like I think within a month of Virgil

signing for Liverpool and he was saying you know he was already running the dressing room pretty much just you know he was putting his music on and everything else so but I think he was able to do that because of the transfer fee and everything else and everybody knew that he was coming in to be the main man but

I do think it's a different matter if you're signing somebody saying right signing you to be captain I think it does tend to upset people as well a little bit I think so other players who've been there a long time think well you know what why have I been overlooked and it just adds an extra pressure on the recruits I think it's always better to get them in let them settle let them understand what the pressures are the unique pressures of Liverpool and

And then at some point, you know, as Jordan Henderson, I mean, he signed in 2011, became captain in 2015. Virgil van Dijk, who just seems like an obvious captain, joined Liverpool in 2018, did not become captain until 2024, became Dutch captain before he became Liverpool captain. You know, it's, I just think continuity and the hierarchy of a dressing room is,

There's a lot to be said for it. I think dressing rooms that have positive hierarchies can be negative as well sometimes, but I think if you get it right and people respect the people at the top of that dressing room and they're still performing on the pitch, the most important thing is

then, you know, it can be a really powerful asset for any team. Yeah, and I also think if you're going to be captain of Liverpool, you need to get a sense of the place, a sense of the fans, a sense of the culture of the club and grow and develop into that. And so I'd hate to see them sign someone and throw the armband down immediately.

Just before we sign off, I've got to tell one of my favourite captaincy stories. It was from 1983-84 and the last game of the season to win the league, Liverpool played away to Notts County.

and Alan Kennedy the left back who scored in the winning goals in two European Cup finals turned up in a pair of leather trousers that some of the younger players were wearing and Alan wasn't one of the younger players at the time they got to Meadow Lane and Graeme Souness the captain walked up and he said take those trousers off and don't put them back on ever

And Alan Kennedy didn't. They were still hanging on the peg.

in the dressing room when Liverpool went home with the title. I'm sure I've seen Graeme Shewness wear a pair of leather kegs before. Well, you know, he might have, but he wasn't having them from Alan Kennedy. Fair enough, fair enough. You've got to have a certain status, haven't you, to pull them off. I suppose if you're Graeme Shewness, you could wear a pair of leather kegs. Exactly, exactly. As could you, Tony, as could you. Well, I frequently do. I frequently do. Anyway, but the point of that story is they left

They left Nottingham with the title and the trophy will be coming back to Anfield's dressing room very, very soon. So that's it from Walk On, your Liverpool podcast brought to you by The Athletic. Thanks to Simon and Andy for joining me and you for listening. We'll be back later in the week as we inch towards being champions.