Are Arsenal Even Close to Achieving Big Things?
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Hello from Paris. This is It's All Kicking Off. The sun is out and Arsenal are out of the Champions League, that is. Chris Sutton, Mikel Arteta says his team are the better side against PSG. But history already tells us they lost both legs of their semi-final.

Yeah, and he said they were the best team, I think, in the competition or said that he didn't think there was a better team in the competition, which is essentially the same thing. Very odd way to look at things. I think PSG, I thought Arsenal were really competitive in both legs, but I thought PSG were the better team and Arsenal deserve to go out. Will there be regrets? Well, Arteta's been there for five years, five seasons now.

And I think it was glaringly obvious to look back and think, Arsenal not bringing in a striker last summer. At that level, it's fine margins, isn't it? No striker brought in in the summer. And then they made that play for Ollie Watkins, that last-minute play, didn't they? In the January window, which was an admission that they got things wrong. So...

While, I mean, Donnarumma was brilliant and made some great saves. I've got to say that the one from Odegaard, especially, I thought that was one of the best saves I've ever seen. So to get down low, big guy that he is and tip that round the post, the one from Saka in the second half. So Arsenal had their moments, but...

Yeah, five seasons he's been in charge now, Arteta. And I think that there are things which he could have affected where Arsenal would have had a better chance of winning more silverware.

Yeah, I think so. I mean, look, as you alluded to that, as I said, I'm in Paris, I was at the game on Wednesday night. Fabulous start by Arsenal, as you say, three big chances in the first eight minutes, two big saves from Giordano Rizzi, Donnarumma, who is fast emerging as...

one of the best goalkeepers in the world, if not the best, that's probably a debate for another day. Don't get Don King on that. No, we won't get Don King, also known as Alison Becker's agent, involved with that conversation. But what we can say is that Donnarumma has, he's one of those goalkeepers who seems to be on a career trajectory, but

That is impressive to say the least. And he was a big player for PSG. But then so was David Rea for Arsenal. David Rea made terrific saves in the first leg in which Arsenal were really disappointing. Saved a penalty.

last night, albeit possibly the worst penalty I've ever seen. Just after, well, just as similar to Ezra's one, wasn't it, for Newcastle? Against Newcastle, wasn't it, for Palace? Very, very similar. Yeah, very weak. And PSG also hit the post last night as well. So let's not pretend that it was one-way traffic towards the PSG goal because it wasn't. My personal view is that Arsenal let themselves down in the first leg. That will be the regret of...

And I've had a bit of a think about this, had a bit of a think about it last night when I was on the way back to the hotel. We can talk about Arsenal season, we can dissect Arsenal season, we can talk about the things that we've talked about before. But one of the things that strikes me is that

For a team that wants to win trophies, they haven't had many statement wins this season or many statement really big performances. If you look down, and as I did last night, if you look down the list of Liverpool's results this season, you can find half a dozen really big wins that leap out at you.

For example, 1-0 down after the first leg of their Carabao Cup semi-final to Tottenham. Tottenham come to Anfield with hope. Liverpool absolutely blow them away. I think Arsenal have had four such games. They beat PSG in the group stages or the league stage of the Champions League. They beat Man City 5-1 at home.

and the beat Real Madrid twice. Those are the four big performances that I would identify from Arsenal's season. I don't think that's enough if you're going to win your first Premier League title or you're going to get yourself to the Champions League final for only the second time in your history. There's got to be more than that.

Yeah, but they're still not far away. I mean, I still feel, I was thinking about it last night, you know, another trophy-less season, there'll be angry Arsenal fans out there thinking, well, you know, is it time for Arteta to move on? I still feel they're a club moving forward.

in the right direction. I thought it was, I thought it was really telling after the game, Arteta, you spoke about Ray and Ray has been a, you know, an excellent goalkeeper for Arsenal, but he talked about the competition in both boxes of the strikers and the goalkeepers and theirs were the best in both games. I think that that, and just going back to what I said earlier, I think that that is really telling because it's not like Arteta just walked in the door and, and,

inherited this squad. This is a squad which he has built. This is a squad this season we have to hold our hands up and say, well, they have had injury issues.

But the fact that, you know, that striking situation that they haven't got the best in class is probably the reason they're going to miss out on both fronts this season, Champions League and Premier League. I mean, that's a debate, but I think you can certainly argue that. Absolutely. They've had injuries, of course. You made quite a big thing last season, understandably so, about,

the Gabriel Saliba central defensive partnership at the Emirates. I think you said it was the best in the Premier League last season. I think I agree with you. That has been disrupted this time. They lost Havertz. They lost Gabriel Zazis. We know all of that, but equally, they're not the only team to have injuries. What concerns me a little bit? You're right, by the way, they are moving forward. I just don't think they move forward this season. Don't think they move forward this season. That's what surprised me. You say they're close, but...

Well, are they close? They're a long way behind Liverpool now in the Premier League. They've got to the last four of the Champions League. I think they were pretty well beaten over two legs by PSG. And what, again, what alarms me a little bit or what makes me think again is also if you're a big team, and you know this, Chris, because you've been there, you've got seasons ebb and flow, don't they?

The ebb and flow, you have good spells, you have spells when you're not playing as well. When you have those good spells, you've got to seize on them. You've got to seize on them. And I look back to two things, right? So remember when City beat, sorry, when Arsenal beat City 5-1 at home in February, annihilated them, embarrassed them, yeah? Dissected them. Yeah, yeah. Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. They followed that up by losing at home to Newcastle.

in the first leg of their Carabao Cup semi-final. And a couple of weeks later, with Liverpool wobbling on the back of a couple of uncertain defeats, they had a massive game at home to West Ham. Liverpool were under pressure. Liverpool were at Man City the next day. Chance to put them under pressure, lost the game. Similarly, they beat Real Madrid home and away,

earlier this month. And have they taken any momentum from that? Absolutely not. They didn't take it into the Champions League semi-final where they performed pretty dismally in the first leg against PSG. And they've also not managed to take it into the league. Now, I could be reading something into something that's not there or...

I could be identifying a flaw in the makeup. But I must be right, Chris, must I not, when I say that when you win big, when you win well, it's got to trigger. It's got to trigger something. It can't just stand out as an isolated performance. I do understand what you're saying, but I'll go back to what I said earlier. Arsenal are moving in the right direction. I think they've got things wrong.

But watching, and you're right about the first leg, and I don't think anybody would deny that PSG. They were really poor. Yeah, they were, but that can happen. You know, at the highest level, you know, you're playing top teams and PSG can make anybody look

ridiculous. Just think about, remember the home game for PSG in the Parc des Princes against Liverpool? Yes, of course. They absolutely slaughtered Liverpool. Of course. Liverpool end up nicking it and then PSG have the courage, the bravery, the gumption to go to Anfield, Liverpool's backyard and get a result there. I mean, I,

I don't know how many times that has happened in the Champions League European Cup that sides have gone to Anfield when they're losing from the first leg and turned around. I don't know, but that's bloody impressive on the basis of Liverpool being as strong as they have been this season. Wiped the floor with everybody with the Premier League.

But Arsenal's display in the first 20, 25 minutes last night, that was phenomenal. And, you know, spoke about Donnarumma, the saves he made. It could have been different. So Arsenal aren't far away. They're not a million miles away. I don't actually think the issue necessarily is Arsenal

is on the field. I think they've made mistakes off the field in terms of recruitment. That's something which they have to really target. I think the Premier League, whether you want to look at points from the previous two seasons, I think they're going to hit this, is it 75 mark if they win every game this season? Whatever it is. Anyway, that's going to be well short of what they hit in the previous two seasons. So,

There have been dips. You've mentioned about their inconsistency, their inability to really put the foot down and put Liverpool under pressure. That hasn't happened. But it does, it still, to me, Davey, your tips for the title, they don't seem like they are a million miles away. What's happened this season has happened. They're trophy-less. But it's what happens next.

to Arsenal which is the important thing and I think Arteta must be thinking along the same lines that he's made mistakes by not being as proactive as he should have been in the transfer window transfer market sorry if we've been talking about statement wins big performances Arsenal could do one this weekend they are at Anfield on Sunday and

Interesting league position now for Arsenal. I don't think anybody really believes they're going to slip from second all the way down to sixth and out of the automatic Champions League places. But it is tight up there. It is tight up there. And I think it's fair to say that they really do need to get something out of this game. Liverpool looked as though they were on the beach when they lost last

at Chelsea last weekend. However, their interest, should we say, their adrenaline ahead of this game, their mood may just have been spiked a little bit by something that Mikel Arteta said in his press conference to preview the game in Paris. Sensi suggested that his team in the last two seasons racked up more points in finishing second to Manchester City.

than Liverpool have accumulated in winning the league this season. Now that isn't true because obviously this season isn't yet over. Not only was it an erroneous thing to say, it also strikes me as being a little bit daft because all he's done is give Liverpool a load of motivation ahead of a game that otherwise may not have meant that much to them.

I don't think that that's going to really fire Liverpool up. I mean, they've won the Premier League. A throwaway comment from Arteta. I mean...

When managers start coming out with stuff like that and talking about points, I think they have to be really careful. And I think if you're an Arsenal fan and you're listening to that, you're thinking, God, you know, it's not about how many points we get. It's about where we finish in the table and we've fallen short again. And the bottom line is why the spin doesn't make sense.

is this season they're not going to hit their points tally of the last two seasons. And that's the bigger issue. He's certainly clutching at straws a little bit there. Liverpool manager Arne Slott has an issue, a selection issue, that interests everybody ahead of the game. Trent Alexander-Arnold is off to Madrid at the end of the season, or even before, if Madrid have their way, and we'll get on to that in a minute. Should Arne Slott pick Alexander-Arnold at right back for this game?

Well, if he wants to give himself the best possible chance of winning the game, depending on... It's obviously been a stressful few days for Trent Alexander-Arnold. But in many ways, I think the fact that he's got it off his chest now, what's happening, we can all move on. Or can we move on? But if he's trained well, then...

then, you know, why would you not start him? Is anybody ever going to move on? Is anyone on the red half of Merseyside ever going to move on from this issue? At times this week, it's felt as though they're not. I agree with you. You should pick Trent Alexander-Arnold. It will be interesting. I'm going to the game. It will be interesting to see what reception he gets. People...

have come at us previously this season on the podcast when we've talked about Trent, asking us to make the distinction between match-going Liverpool fans and Liverpool fans on social media in terms of criticism of Trent Alexander-Arms. However, I'm interested in this because when you look on football websites and newspaper websites and fan channels, you do see...

People from podcasts with credibility, for example, people like the Anfield Rap, who've been going for years and have won awards in the past, talking seriously about how let down they feel by Trent's decision to leave Anfield. You hear Jamie Carragher talking about it online.

on the television, a decorated Liverpool player. So I don't think it is just the loonies on social media this time, Chris. I think there are rank and file Liverpool fans who feel deeply, deeply hurt by this. And you and I, we know what we feel. We think they all kind of need to get over it and let the guy live his life. But it'd be interesting to see if any of it manifests itself on Sunday. I think, well, yeah, and I'm...

You know, you make the point about the Anfield rap and, you know, that being a well-respected podcast, it is. And, you know, and what's the phrase? No one can tell Liverpool fans how to feel. Yeah. Well, you know. Hmm.

Yeah, everybody. No one's telling them how they should feel. Everybody is entitled to their opinion, of course. It's just from the outside, it's a very odd opinion. It is one for you. If you are a young Liverpool player, born and bred in Liverpool, and you have that attachment to the club, what do you think about the whole Trent thing?

situation in that you know he's 20 years been there from a kid won everything and then he just he just feels that he wants to challenge himself at the arguably the biggest club in the world Liverpool's a massive club nobody's disputing that they're not but Real Madrid come calling um

What's wrong with that? Why the anger? Why the angst? Why do Liverpool fans... Why are they so, so head up about this? I don't get it in terms of...

him running his contract down, that's up to the club to find a way in previous seasons to negotiate and get him to that stage. Or, you know, Liverpool fans saying, well, we should have got money for him. Well, you know, they should have sold him last summer then if that, you know, was possible. There are so many things which I don't understand about this, which are,

which are totally wrong. And the other one with Jamie Carragher, what would he have done? I don't know whether anybody's ever asked him that. I don't know if they had the possibility of going to Real Madrid and maybe I've missed something. But when you're in that position, and there's no doubt that Trent would have known about this a long way down the line, you know as well as I do, that there would have been some sort of contact

And this may have been a long time in the making, this whole process of moving to Madrid. But I don't understand why there's so much anger. Someone's won everything. They want a different challenge. Big deal.

Jamie Carragher was on Sky on Monday Night Football. He said that he was sick of people and of journalists telling Liverpool fans how they should feel. I don't really understand that from Jamie because if we followed that to its logical conclusion, then none of us would ever be really allowed to have an opinion on anything in football or anything. You know, we wouldn't be able to, you and I wouldn't be able to say that

like we did last year, that Crystal Palace fans should be careful what they wish for when it comes to changing manager. We wouldn't be able to say that Nottingham Forest fans should have been upset when their club sacked Steve Cooper. I mean, you really would never be able to project your thoughts or feelings onto any fan base at all. So it's a slightly interesting take. That's for sure. You can't say it's the M23 derby anymore. People get...

The M23 Derby, is that something to do? That can't be something to do with Norwich and Ipswich because there aren't any motorways down that part of the world, are there? Brighton Palace. Oh, Brighton Palace. Yeah, indeed. People get angry about that. You and I wouldn't be able to laugh at anybody at all. It'd be pointless having this podcast if we followed Jamie Carragher's rationale. One final question. There's been a suggestion that Real might try...

and offer a few quid to Liverpool to get Trent out of his contract before the end of the season so that they can take him to the Club World Cup. If Madrid put 10 million quid on the table for Liverpool, should they take it? Yeah. I would say so. 100%. Yeah, well, why wouldn't they? 10 million pounds. You're making it sound like a tenner.

Aren't you? You know, dropping it down the back of a couch. That's 10 million pounds. And, you know, Liverpool aren't involved in anything else. They're on the beach already, aren't they? So, yeah.

Yeah, I suppose, matter of principle, you're our player, you're contracted, you'll play at the end of the season, could come in for it, but I absolutely agree with you. If the money's there, then take it and you might buy, if 10 million quid might get you the right kneecap of a half-decent replacement going forward. This is a paid advertisement from BetterHelp. Life can get overwhelming and stress and anxiety have a way of creeping up on us.

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Give it a try and take care of yourself. You deserve it. The NBA playoffs are here and I'm getting my bets in on FanDuel. Talk to me, Chuck GPT. What do you know? All sorts of interesting stuff. Even Charles Barkley's greatest fear. Hey, nobody needs to know that. New customers bet $5 to get 200 in bonus bets if you win FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook.

Team of the season. We started it last week with goalkeepers.

You went for Alison Becker and I went for Matt Sattles. You were otherwise engaged on Monday, so we didn't continue it then, but we can now. Today we're going to do our back four of the season. Leave it up to you, Chris, whether you want to go first or second.

Do you want me to just rattle through my back four? You've rattled through a few back fours in your time, to be fair. Well, yeah. So right back, Ola Eina, Nottingham Forest. Since he's sort of come out of the team, you can see what a big miss he is. Played again against Palace, didn't he, on Monday?

Yeah, but they certainly missed him in the period that he was out. And as that coincided with now Forrest, they've got that race on now for a Champions League spot. But I think he's been outstanding. Virgil van Dijk has to be in their ascent to half. I think he has been back to the level which he was at before his serious injury.

So I'd play him at right centre-half, left centre-half, Murillo, Nottingham Forest. I was thinking of Gabriel, but I just think the whole Forest story, you got cells into your team on the basis of his season. I'd say similar with Murillo on his importance to their team and their relative success. And at left-back, I'd have Myles Lewis-Skelly. I think that he has been...

outstanding I was trying to think of someone else to sort of challenge him or whatever but I couldn't I think he's been head and shoulders so that would be my back four yeah I thought you would go for the two forest players although I must admit I thought you'd go for Milenkovic and not Murillo

but yeah, and yeah, interesting, interesting choice at left back. So I'm not going to argue with you with Virgil van Dijk. I think you're absolutely right.

I'm actually going to go with Trent Alexander-Arnold as my right back. I do think he's been, I think he's had a very good final season. I think Liverpool really missed him in that spell when he wasn't playing, when he got injured in the second leg against PSG. So I'll go for Trent at right back. I'll go for Van Dijk at centre half. I will go for Milenkovic as my other centre half, the other Nottingham Forest central defender who's had a great season at the City ground. And I'm going to go at left back.

For the Wolves defender, Ryan Ait Nuri, who I think is a terrific player and has played a superb part in Wolves revival under Vito Pereira. He's played 34 times in the Premier League this season. Apparently,

Wolves are thinking about a new contract because there's interest from elsewhere. £40 million people are talking about. I think Ait Nour is, Ait Nour has had an absolutely perfect, not perfect season, a very, very impressive season. You were looking really confused. Better than Lewis Skelly, do you think? Mm-hmm.

Who would you take right now if you had a choice? Lewis Skelly or Ait Norey? If you were a manager of a Premier League team? Yeah, I'd probably take Lewis Skelly. Okay, well, let's move on then. No, that's not what this is about. See, you and I...

It's not because it's not, because it goes, it goes back again to the conversation about our player of the season. You've got to, you've got to consider who players are playing for to how, to how well they, to how well they have played. Okay. You know what I mean? Because otherwise, otherwise, otherwise you just choose a Liverpool back four, wouldn't you? You just choose a Liverpool back four.

That's what you would do. You'd just choose a Liverpool back four. How many goals did Wolves concede under Gary O'Neill at the start of the season? I think 40 goals in 15, 16 games. Right. So Aitnourou was part of that defence, but he's still in your team of the season. Fine, you carry on.

I think when you look at Wolves' season in the whole, they have had a progressive season. He is a terrific left-back. People will want to buy him this summer, and he is my left-back. So that is my... Okay, I'm just writing down team of the half season. You don't have to write it down. Just remember it. Team of the half season. Now we've got...

the first five players in our team of the season. Chris, I have mine. Let us know what yours is. I'm sure that there'll be lots of support for my choice at left back. So let's hear it. Let's hear it on the socials. Let's hear it on Spotify and Apple. Let us know exactly what you think about that. Big end of the season for one of your former clubs, Chelsea, Chris.

Not only are they hunting down, if that's the right word, the Europa Conference League title. What did I call that competition once? The egg and spoon race of European football? I think I pretty much stand by that description. Anyway, they might win that. The coach, Enzo Maresco, suggested that that will prove that Chelsea are back.

if they win that tournament. Not sure about that. What will prove that Chelsea are back? Because if they're finishing the top five and get themselves back into Champions League, that's where they want to be. Huge end of the season for Chelsea, who go away to Newcastle on Sunday. Then they're at home to Manchester United,

the Friday night before the FA Cup final, and then they finish with a final game of the season away at Nottingham Forest. That could yet be a Champions League shootout. Big fortnight coming up for Chelsea, but I want to go back 80, how many years? 17 years.

17 years to 2008 story that's, that's appeared this week about, we both remember the, the Champions League final between Chelsea and Manchester United in Moscow. I was there pouring rain, finished one all after extra time.

Chelsea look like they're going to win it on penalties. John Terry has the final Chelsea penalty to win the cup, falls over as he takes it, misses the target. United go on to win the Champions League. Well, this week, the former Chelsea midfielder, Claude McAlealy, has been talking about that night and has revealed that or claimed that John Terry was not even supposed to take the

that final penalty. I'll just read out a little bit what McAlealy has been saying. We made a big mistake ahead of the penalties. We had an order which was agreed with the players and the manager, but it changed at the last minute. It was supposed to be Salomon Kalou taking the last penalty, but John Terry took the opportunity off him. I was very angry when he missed. John had to be the leader and do what was best for the team.

but he didn't make sure we won the trophy. He tried to be a hero. That's a big claim. I'm sure John Terry will have something to say about that. At some point, I'm sure he will get right of reply. First of all, Chris, do you believe it? Secondly, if you believe it, what do you make of it? Why would he say it if it wasn't true? Because he must have known that.

that this would open a can of worms, open a debate, and everybody would think the same thing. I mean, if the manager has agreed with the players an order of, you know, your one to five, they'd go further than that, you know, the six, seven, eight, you know, a certain order, then you stick to that. I know that we've had...

arguments over the years about players taking a particular penalty and another player coming and taking it off him and we've had those debates you know but you know the penalty taker for me is always the one who is designated by the manager no player has a right to overrule their uh their manager so um it'll be interesting to see what john terry says about this but if he did that then um

It's, you know, that's pretty poor, isn't it? Well, more than poor. And, you know, the Chelsea fans will, you know, be sort of gobsmacked, I think, with it. The fact that it's taken so long, what do you say, 17 years ago for this to come to light, though, I mean...

I don't know. That's what makes me wonder about it. But then again, John Terry, what is it the banner says at Stanford? British captain, leader, legend, or something like that. He's held in such esteem, Chelsea, that maybe nobody's ever wanted to break ranks on this. Equally, if he did grab hold of the ball. I mean, the other way to look at it, the other way to look at it, I suppose, just thinking on the hoof here, is if you're the captain and you're

you've got this incredible high pressure moment. You know, it's turned out to be one of the most iconic moments in Champions League history. You know, a player like John Terry falling over as he attempts to win the competition for his club. Maybe he just thought, this is a moment of such intense pressure. We've played for 120 minutes.

It comes down to this sod it. I'm the captain. I'm taking responsibility. Maybe it wasn't about being the hero. Maybe it was about, maybe that is leadership saying to Kalou, don't worry. I'm not going to put you through this. I'm going to do it. And I'm going to, I'm going to make sure that we win this trophy. I'm the captain. This is my statement. Is that valid? Well, is it leadership going against your leader? Oh, the manager you mean?

Well, yeah. Is that leadership? Is that good leadership? Yeah, I know why. I would beg to differ on that. You have to follow your manager's instruction, whether you like it or not. You just do. Great story. I love things like this because when –

You then start to imagine in your head how, I mean, that shapes everything. It shapes everything for Chelsea. It shapes everything for Manchester United because that would have meant that Alex Ferguson would have retired after all his years at Manchester United with only one Champions League trophy, having not won it for many, many, many years. That changes the whole context of his legacy. And to think it would come down to a decision such as that is absolutely fascinating.

I'm sure that John Toe will have his say, but,

On this matter, I'd like to hear from John Terry. I'd like to know whether he was recovered from the bleeding nipple that he sustained in the London Marathon. There was some images going around of him suffering that runner's curse, the chafing of the runner's vest against the nipple, which really, for anyone who's ever done any kind of distance running, and of course there's only one of us on this podcast who ever has done any distance running, and it's not you,

I mean, you know, you know that that's a problem. You put plasters on your nips. It's as simple as that. If you're going to run a long way, you put plasters on your nips. Come on, John. Naive. I don't know if there's any plasters big enough to cover your nipples. Yeah.

You've seen my nipples. Anyway, there we go. So that's as good as ways to end today, I think. John Terry and the famous Moscow penalty wasn't supposed to take it. That's a bit of a wow story, I think. As always, let us know what you think. Chelsea fans out there, come on.

do get in touch. Can John Terry ever do anything to Sully? Can anything ever be said about John Terry to Sully, his legacy at Stamford Bridge? I'm not sure about that. But Claude McAlealy has certainly set the cat amongst the proverbial pigeons with that one.

Friday, ho, we're done. Big weekend of football to come. Best of luck to everybody involved in the EFL playoffs over the next few days. We only haven't dealt with those games today because we're recording on Thursday morning. A lot of them are taking place on Thursday night. Be out of date by the time somebody gets this podcast. So we've left it alone for now, but I'm sure we'll be visiting it on Monday. A lot of things still to be settled. Chris and I will be back for our Monday show and we will see you then.