Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
Seriously popular. Wow. What's up? I just bought and financed a car through Carvana in minutes. You? The person who agonized four weeks over whether to paint your walls eggshell or off-white bought and financed a car in minutes. They made it easy. Transparent terms, customizable down and monthly. Didn't even have to do any paperwork. Wow. Mm-hmm.
Hey, have you checked out that spreadsheet I sent you for our dinner options? Finance your car with Garvana and experience total control. Financing subject to credit approval. Yeah, sure thing.
Hey, you sold that car yet? Yeah, sold it to Carvana. Oh, I thought you were selling to that guy. The guy who wanted to pay me in foreign currency, no interest over 36 months? Yeah, no. Carvana gave me an offer in minutes, picked it up and paid me on the spot. It was so convenient. Just like that? Yeah. No hassle? None. That is super convenient. Sell your car to Carvana and swap hassle for convenience. Pick up fees may apply.
Well, Chris, I've just got back from Craven Cottage and we'll talk about that in a minute. You are in Glasgow staring at me through the screen of your mobile phone. This is a slightly different It's All Kicking Off this Monday. We're recording it Sunday evening. Your travel is even more bonkers than usual. So if anybody's experiencing a little bit of different sound...
when Chris starts to offer his first opinion of the evening, then that would be why. We're not quite as professionally set up as we usually are, but we're hoping that the content will be just as good. Chris, feeling good? Ready to go?
Yeah, I've had quite a long day, but yeah, I'm looking forward to this. We're not in a different time zone, but it does feel slightly odd. But yeah, I think I'm across most things. Famous last words. First world problems and all that. Anyway, I'm going to start on an upbeat note. What I like about football is that although it gives us lots of things to moan and groan about, it also gives us great redemption stories. And I witnessed a little one at Craven Cottages. Manchester United beat Fulham on the first day.
1-0. Toby Collier is not a name particularly well known to football fans outside of the red half of Manchester, but he's a 21-year-old midfielder who I saw make his Premier League debut for United during that awful 3-0 home defeat to Liverpool under Eric Ten Hag back in September. Collier came on at half-time that day as a replacement for the bewildered Casemiro
And he looked for all the world like a young kid who'd been thrown into the middle of a washing machine. United were getting absolutely humiliated by their greatest rivals. They couldn't get anywhere near the ball. They lost 3-0 in the end and it could have been five. And poor old Toby Collier was in the middle of it and must have been thinking, blimey, this isn't what I dreamt of when I grew up wishing to be a footballer. But fast forward a few months, new manager, footballer,
End of January, wet, windy night at Craven Cottage. United hanging on to a 1-0 lead that they don't really deserve. Heading into injury time and Toby Collier is there to head what would have been an equaliser off the line. Went home the hero.
now he knows what it's like to be a big time footballer. Yeah, that's, that's a, that's a nice story actually. But I mean, you say a redemption story, but you know, it's, it's more of a, a development story really for him, isn't it? Because he's just, you know, he's just starting off, but it is, it is nice. And like you say, you know, you would have wondered what hit him when he, you know, when he played the game against Liverpool, but yeah,
Yeah, I mean, I've only seen brief sort of glimpses of him. He looks to be a really athletic player who's, you know, got his opportunity, worked hard for his opportunity and good luck to him. But that was obviously a nice moment for him today. Yeah, I felt really sorry for him that day back in September and delighted for him tonight. You never felt sorry for me.
Oh no, I feel sorry for you in lots of ways that you don't even know. You can rest assured of that, my friend. Now look, on the other side of the coin, sometimes it would be nice to talk about Manchester United without talking about Marcus Rashford, but it is difficult. He wasn't in the squad again for this game tonight and Ruben Amin, the United coach, was asked about him afterwards and this was his reply. I would put the goalkeeping coach on the bench before a player dies.
who doesn't give their maximum. It's remarkable, isn't it? But can we blame Amram for anything that he said? I've said this to you before, and we've discussed Rashford recently,
before a fit and firing and hungry Marcus Rashford would be a great asset to Manchester United so why is he not doing the basic which most players are at Manchester United knuckling down in training and trying to show the manager what he is capable of he on the outside and we aren't on the inside
but he seems to be behaving like a spoiled brat and that's it. And it's unacceptable. Ruben Amorim wouldn't, why would he have an agenda against him? It's a basic given in football that you go in every day to training with a smile on your face. You put it in, you do the basic, that's it. So he isn't doing that. We know that. I mean, you do look at that United team and they are,
They are bereft, not bereft, that's the wrong word. They don't have any, they're lacking depth.
They're lacking quality and they're really lacking depth. You look at that squad and think, blimey, what is Marcus Rashford doing or what is he not doing to get in that squad? Now we have a very, very frank answer from the manager. In the manager's eyes, he's not trying. Now, what is interesting about that is that I think Manchester United fans will probably be quite happy to hear that straight talking from their coach. Not sure about Jim Ratcliffe and the United board because they're trying to get Rashford out
They know they can't sell him at the moment. Maybe they'll manage that in the summer, but they want to get him out. I was talking to somebody from United before kickoff tonight, and they were saying to me that, yeah, we will if we can. We're willing to subsidize his wages on a loan to try and get him out. So say it was for a team in Germany or a team in Italy, and they can't afford 300 grand a week. United are prepared to meet an awful lot
of that financial obligation to get him out. The problem is comments like this from the manager aren't going to help. They're not going to help his value for sure because basically you've got a man, you're trying to get rid of an asset and you've just told all the buyers on the market, oh, this is a lad who doesn't try.
Just not going to help. Put yourself in Ruben Amrim's shoes and there'll be a lot of Manchester United fans out there saying, well, why is Marcus Rashford not playing? He's telling everybody why he's not playing. He's being honest. I think he has to do that in this situation. And...
And I think he's done the right thing. He can't be worried. He has to be more worried about the culture and the environment which he's trying to set at Manchester United. Not about the way... If Marcus Rashford isn't going to buy into that, then I think Ruben Ambrose is quite...
within his rights to come out and say that. And he can't worry about what Jim Radcliffe and any of us thinks about that. It's fair. That's fair. It's also putting the ball firmly in the club's court. In other words, saying, look, get him out. He ain't playing. I've now told the world he's not trying in training. Get him out. Anyway, scrappy win for United. Poor game, actually. I was a bit disappointed in Fulham. I think there was a real opportunity for them there.
and they didn't take it. A scrappy win, a scrappy goal, deflected long shot from Lissandra Martinez. Now, what about the Martinez two-footed challenge on Adama Traore that preceded the winning goal by about 15 minutes? For those of you who didn't see it,
It was one of those tackles that Martinez has a habit of making when he goes into 50-50 and he almost jumps. I can only describe it as though he's trying to burst a balloon with two feet. Is that a reasonable way to describe it? Good description. Very good, yeah. That's the way he looks like it. Now, just as he did at Gustav Palace a while ago when he did it...
He missed. So he didn't make contact with the ball. He didn't make contact with Traore. No action was taken. Anstey Taylor didn't even give a foul. VAR don't get involved. Now, why is that, Chris? Because just because he didn't make contact, the clear intent was there. It was an ugly, ugly challenge.
Yeah, and I think you've made the point quite rightly that, you know, he has a history of these challenges. And I don't get why he's not pulled up, you know, for that. Maybe it's because, you know, he didn't catch Traore and maybe it's one that, you know, the referee doesn't want to get involved in and the VAR don't want to get involved in. But the day he does catch a player with that type of challenge, then...
It's a leg-breaking type of challenge, isn't it? And then it becomes a huge problem, and then people will look back to the incident, which...
happened today against Traore and previous incidents and say exactly what you're saying. Why hasn't he been called out for this before? Yeah, an ankle breaker for sure. I'm not saying he should have been sent off. He didn't make contact, but I was surprised that there wasn't a yellow card and I'm just ridiculous that there wasn't even a foul given. But as we know, Chris, that wasn't the worst situation
refereeing decision of the weekend. I think we've probably had the worst one of the season, perhaps on Saturday afternoon at Molyneux. If you haven't heard about it or seen it, you must have been living on a different planet. Michael Oliver, the referee, sends off Arsenal youngster Miles Lewis Skelly for a trip on a Wolves opponent deep inside the stadium.
deep inside the Wolves half VAR don't get involved it can't have been for the denial of a goal scoring opportunity because it was 80 yards from goal therefore we presume it was for dangerous play there was some talk about the fact that it was it was
given and it was serious foul play yeah serious foul play and upheld because it was above the ankle well how do you make a tackle that's beneath the ankle I don't really understand that either anyway Chris it just proves one thing that VAR will never do what we want it to do as long as people make
daft decisions. Oliver makes the mistake and VAR down in England for whatever reason chooses not to get involved beyond comprehension. I actually, this may be quite unpopular what I'm going to say. I have great sympathy for Michael Oliver because of the process.
Because, oh, look, there are Arsenal fans out there, a lot of them now saying he's got something against Arsenal. Right. But in the moment, he can get that call wrong. Correct. Okay. He can get that wrong. And he did get it wrong. And it was a terrible red card. But Darren England has to help him out in that situation. Right.
And he needs to advise him to rethink his decision, go to the monitor, have a look at the monitor, at least do that. And then he can make his own mind up and look at different frames and make that decision. So I don't necessarily think that the main culprit here is Michael Oliver, yet he is the one who's taken the bulk of
of the abuse and it's got Matt of hand. Yeah, that's a very, very good point. I was actually out for a very short run on Saturday afternoon, listening to, uh, three miles, but that's good. A three mile shuffle, a three mile shuffle. Um,
overtaken by women and children and dogs and all kinds of folk. But I was listening to the commentary on Five Live and it was Ian Dennis, Pat Nevin and then Mark Chapman in the studio at halftime. And the levels of incredulity from those three was something I wouldn't say that I'd never heard before, but the type that you don't often, often hear. And I was thinking, I can't wait to get back home and see this thing. How bad could it be? And then you do see it. And I absolutely agree with you. At full speed,
under pressure, you know, blah, blah, blah. My,
Michael Oliver could make that mistake. Maybe thinks he took him out of the knee. Everything happens in a blur. But for it not to be corrected by Darren England when he's got all the replays at slow motion, etc., you're absolutely right. That is the great mistake. Now, we must mention that the PGMOL, the referees board, put out a statement Sunday evening, sadly telling us that the police are investigating threats that have been made online against Michael Oliver.
his family. I'm led to believe this includes death threats, it includes threats to his children. I don't think we need to really go into what we feel about that. That kind of makes me sick to my stomach, really.
really. But that is the state of play as it stands at the moment. And if things are that serious, I'm glad that the police are at least getting involved. Now let's turn our thoughts back to the football, back to the incident again. And you touched on it earlier when you said there are Arsenal fans out there screaming bias. And we know there are. I think I've said on this podcast before that there's...
a chap who emails me regularly, who's a Liverpool supporter, who's convinced that referees are biased against Liverpool. Now, and I think all supporters feel it. They all think that referees have got it in for their team, but it's not something that you and I have ever bought into, Chris, is it? We just think they, we think they make mistakes, but we, we do think they are honest mistakes. Are we being, are we being desperately naive here? Um,
in believing in integrity? I hope not. Are we being desperately naive? Are we always naive? Yeah, I don't. I really don't. I really don't think that that is the case with Michael Oliver for the reasons that we have described. He wasn't the biggest culprit in this. You know, we've mentioned that Darren England was. And put yourself in Michael Oliver's shoes and, you know,
a certain section of Arsenal fans who are calling him out for being biased and saying there's a conspiracy against Arsenal. Do they really think that Michael Oliver would stand in the tunnel before the game thinking, I'm going to do Arsenal in today? I just don't think that that is...
I don't think that that is something which he would think to work his way up to that level of refereeing. And people make mistakes. Referees make mistakes. Everybody, you know, in every job they do, in every walk of life, makes errors and mistakes. It's the, you know, the nature of his job in the blink of an eye and the speed of the game, he...
He made a big mistake, but he should have been helped out, and that's what VAR was supposedly brought in for. So the support mechanism then didn't help him, and now there is this pile on and this vile abuse on social media, and that's not right. I know we've spoken before, and you mentioned David Coote, and I think that when he was filmed, he was –
speaking about Liverpool and Jurgen Klopp in derogatory terms. And that probably, I think you made this point and I agree with it, that probably doesn't help this situation with regards to certain...
uh, club support thinking, well, there's a bias against our team. Exactly. We were talking about this before the podcast started, weren't we? And I remember at the time of the day at the David Coote thing, I remember saying to you, and I wrote a column about it saying that he's failed, uh,
He's failed referees at all levels. And look, I feel sorry for David Coop. You know, certain things emerged after I wrote that column, after I said those things about David, some of the problems that he might have. And I just hope that wherever he is and whatever he's doing, he's getting the help that he needs. I generally do think that.
However, I do stand by the point that as soon as you get a referee publicly or privately, but then the film he made was released into public domain. And as soon as you have a referee sitting there admitting to a real dislike of a Premier League manager, Jurgen Klopp in Coutts' case, you then do, I'm afraid, open the door to every one of your colleagues saying,
all the way down the food chain, all the way down the pyramid, all the way to the Saturday park games, the Sunday park games, the evening five-a-side games, you open the door to that, to feeding that ridiculous minority who genuinely believe that our referees
are corrupt, essentially. Corrupt, dishonest, biased. And I thought it then, and I think it now. And the truth is, football's such a passionate game, and all joking aside, guys we know who actually think this is a thing are bright, intelligent guys. But I think it's the fact that maybe what...
With regards to Arsenal, maybe the... I don't know whether desperation is fair, but maybe the desperation that this was going to be their season, this was the season they were going to take that final step and then they see Manchester City fade away. But all of a sudden, Arnaud Slot's gone and Liverpool and they've got this huge lead. That may be all adding to the madness.
At Sierra, discover great deals on top brand workout gear, like high quality bikes, which might lead to another discovery. Getting back on the saddle isn't always comfortable. Good news is, Sierra has massage guns. And chafe wipes, too. Discover top brands at unexpectedly low prices. Sierra, let's get moving.
Now, I was talking to somebody close to Tottenham last week, a real dear friend of mine in football, and we were having a bit of a moan and groan about Tottenham's woes. And he said to me, he said, well, it's Leicester at home next. At least I know we're not going to lose that one. It's a big problem for Ange Postakoglu. It's a huge problem. And, you know, where are we at? Are Tottenham in a relegation battle? I don't think so.
Are they depleted in terms of injuries? Yes, they are. Are there a lot of other teams in the Premier League depleted with injuries? Yes, there are. The one thing in this which I do not understand, and Postacoglu, even after today, has a lot of support from Tottenham fans, but there are a lot of Tottenham fans who think, well, time is up for him.
And there's a lot of criticism of Daniel Levy and the way that he has run the club. And Tottenham fans are saying, well, you know, we've had so many great managers over the years, he hasn't invested enough in the playing staff. What I don't get is we are now at the end of January.
And Daniel Levy would have seen what everybody else has seen, that Tottenham have had some of their biggest hitters out, their best players out. So why on earth did Daniel Levy not help Ange Postakoglu in terms of bringing players in at the start of January? Brought the goalkeeper in, Kinski.
But I think that's it. And that's unfortunate. Yeah, but they've got a week left, but it's the end of January. It's, you know, the games, I know they beat Hoffenheim in the week, but they've lost, you know, they've had a bad month, a bad, bad month. And this isn't a new thing. Ange Postakoglu has gone on record as saying, well, we, you know, we need to bring
players in, but he hasn't been helped in that sense. But of course the great unknown is, and what's keeping him in a job is the fact that they can still, they can still win a trophy. And they've gone, Tottenham have made this commitment to, to buying young players.
buying for the future, to use one of your phrases, buying development players. So they bought Archie Gray, they bought Bergvall, they bought the lad from Burnley whose name I currently can't remember. Odderberg. Correct, Odderberg. And
and of course they're all having to play. Paul D'Arcy-Gray's been playing left back now, central midfielder who spent most of the season at centre half, now playing at left back. Bergvall's having to play all the time. They're out on the feet, these lads. And what Tottenham and their football director, Johan Lang, won't want to do now is take, is, is, is take a route away from that path and buy emergency players. It's what they won't want to do. I'm,
I'm kind of in your camp and in Pastor Coghlu's camp in terms of saying, well, yeah, but they probably have to because nobody knew they were going to lose this number of players, but they won't want to do it because it's not the, it's not the policy that they've decided to stick to. But I think I'm with you that they do need something. And if they don't do it, I think Pastor Coghlu will be quite right to feel miffed about it. For those of you who are, um,
of a Tottenham persuasion, or just like very good sports writings, a very, very good column written by my colleague, Riyadh Al-Samurai, that's running on Mail Online at the moment, which dives deeply into Daniel Levy and particularly his reluctance to pay what Riyadh believes are the going weight in terms of wages costs.
Now, we do have some comments from Thursday's show, Chris. Of course we do. We got ourselves into a bit of a mess on Thursday. Hang on. How am I implicated in this mess? Well, actually, you know what? That wasn't even meant to be a joke. Another fine mess we got ourselves into as it happened. Didn't even mean to do that. Okay.
I can roll out the puns even without meaning to. That was a completely accidental bit of punditry there. We got confused with Lowell and Hardy, didn't we? Well, hang on a minute. No, you got confused and I sort of bailed you out. And now you're bringing me into it. You're dragging me into it. For the record, Stan Lowell was the thin one.
Oliver Hardy, was not the thin one. Few people have picked us up on that. No surprise there. This is a comment on Spotify from Andy B. I've been a male reader forever and have listened to the podcast since it started, but you've both had an absolute shocker. How the hell can two blokes of your age not know who is who from Laurel and Hardy? I can understand it if you were both teenagers, but come on, that sucks.
was just poor. What does he mean your age? I'm 15 years younger than you. No, you wish. Nigel T70 on Spotify says, mixing up Lowell and Hardy is like mixing up Pele and Mara.
And then a completely different subject. We talked a little bit about Celtic and Rangers last week, didn't we? After Celtic qualified for the next stage of the Champions League, about the gap between them. I was talking about Champions League money. Stephen Lyons, a bit more direct. Rangers aren't competitive as they were caught financially doping and are now paying
their price. There we go. Lowell and Hardy, who would have thought that that would be the topic du jour this Sunday evening? Chris, right, talking of questions, let's go into some questions for you, my friend. This is from Chris at Double Denim on X. Is Justin Cliver playing his way into a big summer move?
Oh, that's a good question. And Bournemouth are the... I mean, they're one of the stories of the season. Another goal at the weekend, didn't he, against my beloved Nottingham Forest? And I don't think anybody saw a 5-0 with Nottingham Forest's defence. But he probably is. And yet, Bournemouth...
I think seventh now in the Premier League. Absolutely flying now, but they are a club where I think that the, should I say without disrespecting Bournemouth, the bigger clubs will be looking at players like Clive, looking at his numbers this season. I think there's 11 Premier League goals this season and thinking maybe,
maybe he'll do for a big one. Won't need to get a big move if Bournemouth finish in the Champions League places. This is from at Olly Foxy on X. Who's going to finish in the top four, Chris, in order? Right, OK then. Liverpool, Arsenal, Manchester City, Bournemouth.
Oh, big cover, Bournemouth. Not so good for Eddie Howes. Well, they've got so many injuries. Imagine when they get the full team back. Yeah, it was amusing seeing all the injured players gathered in that TV studio watching the game on Saturday. Ian Henderson on X asks, and this is a very interesting question, what on earth has happened to Aberdeen?
Earlier in the season, they couldn't stop winning. Now they can't win to save their lives. Oh, blimey. And there was a bad run at the weekend. They got, they got drubbed by St Mirren, 3-0 at Pittodri. And the, the centre-half, one of their centre-halves, Rubisic, had a stinker for the, the,
for the first two St Mirren goals. And then he asked to come off and this is after 40 minutes and came off and ran straight down the tunnel with greater pace than when he was chasing one of the St Mirren boys.
towards his own goal. I took a great interest in the Aberdeen story at the start of the season when they were second and nobody could beat them and they have fallen off the proverbial cliff, let Rangers back in the door. Rangers, of course, won 3-1 away today. You were there, Chris. TD asks on X, why are Celtic dragging their heels on transfers?
Oh, I mean, the biggest transfer story is that I don't get this. I'd love your opinion on this. So Celtic have qualified for the playoff round of the Champions League.
Battle of Britain in the week against Aston Villa and it looks like there's a deal done for their main striker, Kyogo Furuhashi, the Japanese international, to go to Rennes in Ligue 1, who I think they're 14th. I do not get why. I know a lot of Celtic fans are saying, and this is the club thought process, £10 million for a 30-year-old.
That's good money. Well, it is good money. But even if you sold them in the summer, you wouldn't get a lot less than that. But why on Earth?
I don't get Celtic's mindset with this one. Why don't they try and progress further in the Champions League? Keep your best player, that gives you your best forward, that gives you a better chance of qualifying for the next stage. It feels, Ian, like they've hit the ceiling or they have a ceiling. Into the playoffs, it doesn't matter. We don't want to go any further. We've done enough. I don't like that.
they get £9 million if they win that playoff game so they really do need to win it I do wonder whether Brendan Rodgers is sanctioned that transfer I can't believe it in fairness to Brendan he said he's a player that they don't want to lose but that sort of makes it I don't mean anything and finally final question Solomon Kolecki picking up on something you said on Thursday
Is twerpism, twerpism even a word? I think it was, I think you were accusing Henry, our producer, of twerpism.
on Thursday. Is it a word? Of course it's not. You don't need to answer that question, Chris. But tell you what, I loved it. And if you want to continue to reinvent the English language on this podcast, then be my guest. Now, there we are. Those are questions to Chris. Keep those coming. You know where you can put them. You can put them on X. You can put them on any of the places I mentioned earlier. It's a section of the show that we like.
So keep those coming in time for next Monday's show. And by the way, talking to Justin Cliver, another plug for a wonderful piece that's running on Mail Online at the moment. My colleague Lewis Steele went to interview Cliver at Bournemouth last week. That piece ran on Saturday. It's still available on our platforms. You can go and find it. Listen to Cliver's life story. Famous father, of course, about to become a father himself.
Lots of detail and insight in that piece from Lewis going. Check it out. Now, I was off on Saturday, Chris. So after I'd finished huffing and puffing my way around Fog Lane Park in Disby, I did manage to get to the... Fog Lane Park. Fog Lane Park. I did manage to... Which was Fog Lane Park, which is even less glamorous than it sounds. I was... But I was able to get to the juicer for a couple of hours on early Saturday evening. The what? The juicer.
The pub. Okay. I've never heard that. Never heard that before. I managed to watch the Man City-Chelsea game with a few friends of mine. And I have to say, goodness me, I was talking before about feeling sorry for Toby Collier. How sorry did we all feel for Abdou Kadir Kouzanoff two minutes into his City debut after he gifted...
Madureki, wasn't it? The first Chelsea goal. My goodness, I thought he was going to cry. I felt like crying for him. Did you feel like that on my Chelsea debut? When he fell over and he was played through the middle. Yeah. Did you feel like crying then? I did, yeah. Only because I had a bet on you for the first goal. LAUGHTER
Yes, I mean, it's a brutal game, isn't it? You know, at the highest level. And I mean, he was very lucky, wasn't he? Because moments after that, I mean, it wasn't a red card. Yes, I mean, it certainly wasn't a red card, but it was one of those, I mean...
It was pretty hairy, but oh my God, he must have been wondering what the hell had hit him. But, you know, Pep brought him in, he trusted him, maybe threw him in too early. But he's had some rise, hasn't he, Kusunov? Yeah, it's an extraordinary deal.
£33 million. He's only played 20, he's only made 20 starts for, for Lens in, in France. And I think was he 84, was I reading it? 84 grand. The, the, the move from the club he was at to Lens. Yeah. That's some appreciation, isn't it? I mean, look, I think there might be a little bit of, let's say January inflation in that fee in terms of, no, what I mean is,
City were planning to do, City on record as saying they were planning to do all their business in the summer. And because they've been in such a desperate form, they decided to bring all the deals forward to January. That must have cost them a few quid. I'm sure the price did go up. But even so, that is, I mean, look, it's one of those, if he's in their team in a year's time and they're back on the top of the Premier League,
you know, and they're about to win the League Cup like they usually do and they're firing in Europe. Nobody will care about the transfer fee. At the moment, it does seem a bit toppy. Moyes' masterclass is what I read in the Mail on Sunday this morning. Um,
the headline on Everton's 1-0 win. How did that make you feel? You know what, mate? It made me laugh. It made me laugh because that's exactly what Sean Dyche was doing. He was like winning crap games, really boring games with a penalty. And all of a sudden, because it's your new manager and it's David Moyes, it's a Moyes masterclass. Although to be fair to David, he has managed to do something that Sean didn't do all season, which is put two Premier League wins together back.
to back 700 Premier League games and up now for David second only to Arsene Wenger and Alex Ferguson I believe yeah I mean you would have preferred to see Graham Potter wouldn't you I think going at Everton I just think I just think that nothing against Graham Potter but you know there's always been this stigma surrounding David Moyes that he's a
He's a bit of a dinosaur. I never felt that. I think if you look back at his managerial record, even you go back to Preston,
a club which he took over his first job. He had great success there, led him to a League Two title. And then he moved on and, you know, we look at Everton as a bit of a basket case club at this moment in time. You think his 11 years at Everton, what did he provide them with? I think they were a point above the relegation zone when he took over something like that. And he turned them into a very, very, very stable club
top half club. And then what he did at West Ham and we're just realising now with the change at West Ham, Lopetegui, you know, losing his job and you look back at the Moyes years, you know, when he first took over, keeping...
them in the league and then West Ham having the sense to get them back and then keeping them up again and winning a European trophy they're going to be in years to come West Ham fans are going to look at the days under David Moyes
and look at them with great, great fondness. So him going to Everton, which, you know, going back, you always think, well, would that be a good idea? He's had a great, great start. But I've always felt because of what happened to him at Manchester United, he keeps getting whacked. He keeps getting smacked with that.
that same old stick, which is deeply unfair on him. Yeah, I think what... Yeah, I agree. Look, he was out of his depth at Manchester United. I don't mind saying that. I thought I was covering Manchester United at the time. I thought it then. But was that all down to... Was that all...
solely down to David Moyes or were there other factors there? There were other factors at play. Manchester United have subsequently admitted privately to people like me that they dealt David Moyes a very, very bad hand. They really did. However, that still doesn't change my view from what I saw, which was I used to look into the eyes of a bloke who I just didn't really think was up for it. Not up for it, up to it.
up to it in terms of the mental challenge of managing Manchester United. However... Who has been since? However, when he then went to Sociedad and Sunderland, it was then that I thought we were seeing the end of David Moyes. And that is what makes his return to eminence and prominence so impressive. It was brave to go to Sociedad, but it didn't work. And at Sunderland...
he was pretty dreadful at Sunderland. He was pretty dreadful. And it was then that I thought, it's a long way back from this. And I wonder whether we won't see him again. You go and manage Scotland or something. But what I admire about him is that desire, that desire to say, no, I'm not finished with football. I'm not finished with the Premier League. I'm going to come back.
And I'm going to show you, and I'm going to show myself, and I'm going to prove myself once again. And that is what he has done at two spells at West Ham. And now I'm sure he'll do a very, very presentable job back at Everton. That is what, that is the, that is the mark of the man ever.
I don't think, you know, Dave and I didn't get on particularly well at Manchester United. I don't think he particularly likes me, but it doesn't really matter. No surprise there. He obviously met you. He's probably forgotten who I am. But the bottom line is it takes nothing away from the admiration you've got to have for the fact that he's come back and re-established himself and now he's got 700 Premier League games. Well said all that. But two weeks ago, you didn't want him to get the job.
So what? It was irrelevant. That was about Everton. That wasn't about David. I said to you at the time, there's no way I could say David was a bad appointment. I just would have preferred it if they'd given it to Graham Potter. That was all. Anyway, there we go. A couple of wins. A couple of wins, you change your mind. Correct.
Right, moments of the weekend, my friend, you or me? Well, I'll go first, if that's okay. Joanne Wisser, the Brentford players, O'Brien and Bermo missed his first penalty at...
against Crystal Palace. But Mark Gahey, the Crystal Palace defender, had impeded the box when he went to take it. But encroached in peace, same thing, isn't it? You can't impede a penalty. Oh, right. Well, whatever. Anyway, he went...
It's late. I'm a twerp. Anyway, he had a retake. But what was incredible, as he was doing his run-up to slot the penalty where he was going to slot it, Ewan Wisser had started to celebrate...
the goal which he was assuming that Mboma was going to score. He was running towards the Brentford fans, arms in the air. You've got to see it to actually believe it. What I think, wouldn't it have been funny
if Brian and Berman would have missed. But that's faith in your teammates. That's the sort of thing I'd do for you if you were stepping up to take a penalty. I'd start with celebrating. Yeah, I wouldn't need that. I think he was doing it to put the goalkeeper off because the goalkeeper must spot that. Must spot that movement. I think that's why he was doing it. But it is wonderful. If you haven't seen it, go and check it out on socials. He was doing it to put that off.
goalkeeper on. It is a fabulous moment. I've got two moments of the weekend. The first one, Tony Moby back at West Brom, of course, having had a year or so out, been treated for bowel cancer back at the Hawthorns. 5-1, Tony's West Brom beat Portsmouth.
on Saturday. Not a great day for Pompey fans, but fabulous for Tony. I think anyone who's ever met Tony Mowbray, and I've been lucky to do so a couple of occasions, will tell you there is probably not a better guy in football. So welcome back, Tony, and well done. And I'm going to go for, you'll appreciate this as a former centre-forward, Chris, the Alexander Izak first touch
from the Jacob Murphy pass for his goal from open play, not the penalty, at Southampton. Alan Shearer highlighted it on Match of the Day. To be fair, I'd already clocked it. Absolutely wonderful because that pass was absolutely pinged in fast and it could have been very easy to let that kind of...
rebound a little bit too far. What a touch. That guy and Cliver, the two of them between them look like they'd score in the dark at the moment. They are in such incredible form. As illustrated, by the way, he took the penalty without even looking at the ball when he kicked it, which is still something that bamboozles me even to think about.
Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. He's a striker in brilliant form. I'd love to see you take a penalty with that. I took three penalties against Peter Shilton once. Did he dive after the ball hit the back of the net? I took three penalties against Peter Shilton. I mean, admittedly, Peter was about 25 years ago. So I'd reckon Peter would be about 40 at the time. So not exactly in his prime. He saved the first one.
gave him the eyes with the second one and slotted it, slotted it, which pleased me. And then, and then gave him the eyes with the third one, but put it wide. So that's unlucky. Do you think Peter remembers? I interviewed him a couple of years ago and I mentioned it and he, he didn't seem to oddly. How did that, how did that come about?
It was a media thing. It was a media thing. We were there to interview him and promote something. It was a bit of fun. The guy from Sky TV won it because he was a cameraman from Sky. I turned up with a pair of football boots and all the rest of it. The cameraman from Sky TV didn't even take his Timberland boots off
And he just, you know, he just, cameramen are always massive, aren't they? TV cameramen, because they've got to be to carry all the kit, right? So absolutely massive bloke. There's ambled up to the board, absolutely toe-bunged it three times with these Timberland boots. Almost took Schilt's head off each time. I think by the third one, Peter was just letting him in. He was just thinking, I'm not here to take one in the face or break a finger. You know what I mean? Probably only getting paid a hundred quid or something like that, you know?
So yeah, the guy from Sky. On another podcast, remind me to tell you about the day that I played football with Arsene Wenger. Now that's a story that we haven't got time for today, but we will tell it. Oh, I forgot my last moment of the weekend. The Traitors. I don't know. Did you watch it, The Traitors? No, never watched it. Don't particularly want to talk about it, but if you insist...
Do you insist? People get angry. People get angry if you talk about the traitors and who won it. But honestly, well, don't do it then. It's unbelievable. You should, you should watch it. It's about human behavior. You can learn a lot from it. I don't want to talk about it. Right. There we go. Well, I've enjoyed this. It's just turned midnight on Sunday evening. I thought this was going to be absolutely amazing.
Looking for my golden slipper. I thought this, I hope we've got a bleep button handy. I thought this was going to be a show, but it actually hasn't been a show. It's been quite a good show. You're almost delirious with tiredness. I'm just feeling a bit giddy because I've actually been able to report on a Manchester United victory for once, which
feels unusual. So I think we should wrap it up. Thanks for being with us, everybody. You know where to find us to leave those comments, to leave your opinions and your views and your criticism and your thanks. Go to all the social accounts. Go and make sure you're following Malesport. I burnt my hand this weekend as well.
I don't want to ask you how that was. What were you doing? Ironing your underpants? No, just showing you my hand where I burnt it. How did you burn it? I bought the kind lady from BBC Scotland an Americano and a latte to take over his coffee. And as I was walking across the road from a Starbucks to the BBC, my phone rang in my pocket and I went to get my phone out and juggled it and then it
The coffee scalded me. It's got bad burn, really bad burn on my hand. Excellent. Glasgow Infirmary, A&E for you then after this show. Anyway, I was in the middle of giving a plug for email support platforms. I'll do it quickly. Make sure you're all over them. TikTok.
and Instagram and X and Facebook. You can see excerpts, not experts. There's no experts on this podcast. Excerpts from the show, not the experts. You can find them there. While you're there, leave us some comments and some ratings and reviews and hit the follow button and all the rest of it. Right, we're done. I am Ian Ladyman. The Stan Laurel to my Oliver Hardy is...
Here's Chris Sutton, currently waving his burnt hand at the camera. Nobody needs to see that at this time of night. This has been It's All Kicking Off.