Rein it in or Ramp it up? Myles Lewis-Skelly Divides Opinion as Arsenal Batter the Champions
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Chris, when people waffle on about the Premier League being the best league in the world, it always feels a little bit self-congratulatory. I can't say that word. Congratulatory. It's a great start. Congratulatory. Congratulatory. Congratulatory.

Chris, when people waffle on about the Premier League being the best league in the world, it all feels a bit self-congratulatory to me. Is that right? That's a different word. It all seems a bit arrogant. No, I think that's a lovely word. I can't pronounce it. It's congratulatory. Yeah, but that sounds great. Self-congratulatory. Yeah, that's good effort. Chris, when people waffle on about the Premier League being the best league in the world, it all feels a bit self-congratulatory to me.

But then we get a weekend like this, and I kind of know exactly what they mean. Forest score seven at home to Brighton. Liverpool win at Bournemouth with a dodgy penalty. Everton score a goal before the game seems to even have kicked off. And then on Sunday, Man Utd lose at home to Palace with a midfielder playing up front. And Arsenal put five past Manchester City.

Five past Manchester City, once more with feeling, as they say. And that's before we even mention Spurs putting Ange Ball in the bin and playing like a grown-up football team to win at Brentford. Decent weekend is what I'm saying.

Yeah, and I think that your phrase, self-congratulatory, you put that brilliantly, Ian. I think that explains it all pretty well. Everton, aren't they flying? Remember when you wrote Everton off on social media? Everton have just opened the door to relegation after Dyche was sacked.

I tweeted that. Yeah, Everton have just opened the door to relegation. I tweeted that literally within 10 seconds of getting the announcement from Everton. You can delete tweets. That sacked Sean Dice.

Also, Everton, of course, now on a winning run. They're going for Europe. Haven't had for a long time. Every time Everton score a goal, my Twitter feed explodes. Explodes with blue venom from that side, Everton's side. But fair play, fair play Everton fans. I put myself on the neck. I put my neck on the line and you guys are enjoying chopping it off.

Don't blame you about that. Don't blame me for that for a minute. Anyway, to the Emirates, mate. Nice to see you, by the way. To the Emirates, what a game. What a result. And a fur dollop of argy-bargy. Arsenal 5, Manchester City 1. I'll say it again. I keep having to say it to believe it. 5-1 to Arsenal. Liftoff for Mikel Arteta's team or so well.

we would hope, Chris. What is important, though, is they have to kick on from here. Yeah, absolutely. I actually fancied Arsenal to win the game, not quite as they did it with the margin. I mean, they were miles ahead of Manchester City. I think they were far more aggressive than

than City. But you're right. It's okay winning this one and celebrating the victory. And, you know, they're quite entitled to celebrate the victory, but it's about this season was about taking that next step and winning the Premier League. And they've still got a long way to go to topple Liverpool. When Arsenal play like that, they are irresistible. Energy, energy.

Aggression, ambition, optimism, in the opponent's faces, winning duels, creating chances, missing chances, scoring goals. They are brilliant to watch. And that is why I've said many times on this podcast this season that they remain. I tipped them to win the title at the start of the season. I'm still not backing away from it because I can see them.

getting onto one of those runs. I can absolutely see them getting on one of those runs where they win, win, win, win, win. But it has to start. It has to start now. And the point that, at the end of all the argy-bargy, which we'll get to in a second, the point that Erling Haaland was making as he walked off the field

having copped a load of abuse from several members of the Arsenal team when he was pointing to his badge on the side of his shirt which identifies him as a Premier League winner. That is the point. Arsenal haven't won anything yet.

and this has to lead to something it has to lead to something even if it's just a Cowboy Cup they've got a 2-0 deficit to overturn at Newcastle in the semi-final on Wednesday night this has to lead to something surely yeah I agree um Harland uh pointing to it to his shirt in the Premier League title I get I get that um

But I do like the rivalry between Arsenal and Manchester City. I like a bit of pettiness. And, you know, if you're an Arsenal fan, you're saying, well, Erling Haaland has brought this on himself, all the stay humble stuff and what have you. And he's got a massive dollop of egg on his face. I loved it. You know, I loved it. I love Gabriel in Haaland's face, obviously.

you know, early on and celebrating. Thought he may have gone a little bit early with that one. Lewis Skelly getting involved and, you know, there are those out there who'll think, well, why is he getting involved at his age?

But it's a bit of personality, isn't it? So I love the rivalry. I sort of take myself back to when I played and you have certain teams where there is this needle and that's what makes the, you know, or let's say the Premier League, but this sort of Pep, Mikel Arteta, you've got the teacher and the apprentice.

There are so many different strands of it, but Arsenal finding a way to win and celebrating, they're entitled to do that. And that sort of Gabrielle Harland, I mean, it's not quite Keane Vieira,

But it's pretty good, isn't it? Well, it's certainly a developing rivalry. Yeah, it's not Roy Keane-Patrick-Vievo yet, but it's certainly a developing rivalry between those two. You and I have criticised Arsenal on the podcast before, last season particularly, for being a bit over-emotional. I still think there's something in that. I don't want to dig down into that today after just beating Man City 5-1. That would be unfair. I still think there is something in that. They are a very emotional side. Sometimes I wonder if it works against them. But if you're in that dressing room,

and you just get into that dressing room after that victory, then I'm sure from a player's point of view, from your point of view, whether it be in a Celtic dressing room or a Blackburn dressing room or whatever, all that matters to you is the feeling inside that dressing room, surely. And you get empowered by a result and a performance like that, do you not?

Absolutely. And Arsenal, look, the bottom line is they'll celebrate, but only for so long. You know, they're not going to be celebrating this for the next month, Arsenal players, because, you know, Mikel Arteta, I'm sure within five minutes would have been saying, well, exactly what you've said. We have to back it up. Arsenal have won nothing this season. They haven't won anything for a long, long time. Arteta's only won the FA Cup twice.

So, you know, this is about making the next step and they have to win for a reason. And this has to be part of them piecing together a jigsaw which ends in the Premier League title. But there's still a long, long way to go. And with Liverpool in the form they're in and, you know, you still fancy Arsenal because they were your tip at the start of the season. But it is hard to see Liverpool slipping, isn't it?

It is. The background that I mentioned goes back, particularly goes back to the game this season that was drawn at the Etihad City equalising very, very late on. Erling Haaland telling Mikel Arteta to stay humble as he walks off the field and also saying to Myles Lewis-Skelly who the F are you when he came to get involved. So there was some disrespect there.

He was patronising to Lewis Skelly. And that obviously is what led to Lewis Skelly scoring the goal yesterday and then mimicking Harlan's kind of that meditation goal celebration that he does. What would you have done at 18? Now, I want to... Blimey. No, seriously. What would you have done at 18? And what is right? I think that shows great personality and belief.

You know, there's a player who, I mean, bearing in mind, you think of all the players who he's knocked out of the Arsenal team. Calafiori is picked out of him. Tierney Zinchenko, what a talent. Why shouldn't he stand up for himself? You know, Haaland was giving it the big and...

you know, earlier on in the season and Arsenal players felt riled by that. They're entitled to respond in whatever way they like. It's all about winning, but it is all about trophies at the end of the season. So you've asked me what I would have done. Okay, look, self-belief is everything. Self-belief is everything in life. It's everything in sport. Absolutely. I've said to you before, one of the things that I always admire about professional sportsmen and women is the mental strength.

to cope, to cope with success, to cope with failure, to keep coming back. I couldn't do it. I know I couldn't. I'm just not made that way. People who are, you are one of them. People who are, I admire that probably as much as I admire their technical ability, okay? So belief is everything. And to see a young kid like Miles Lewis Skelly have that belief, have that attitude to succeed,

is inspiring, but I think you know what's coming next. There's always a book with me and this is it. I'm also quite big on respect and I think that's important in life as well. And I think it's important in sport. And I think that I just wonder whether an 18-year-old kid

should really celebrate his first goal in senior football by taking the piss out of a bloke who's just scored his 250th. That is all I would say, because as you mentioned earlier, in sport as in life, the circle tends to turn and if you're not curled through, you end up getting bitten on the backside.

And that would be my only point. You still haven't answered what you would have done. Well, I kind of have answered it by saying I wouldn't have done it. It's a bit of a cop-out. You think back to when you were 18. But all I'm saying, well, I'd have taken my lead from senior pros.

I'd have taken my lead from senior pros and I would hope that someone in that dressing room, and I'm sure it's happening, is keeping Lewis Skelly's feet firmly on the guard. I actually like that, Ian. Can I just say something? If I was an Arsenal fan, if I was an Arsenal fan, I'd be loving it. And of course you're loving it. But I tell you what, you don't see Liverpool doing that.

You don't see Liverpool doing that. And they're the team who are top of the league. And back in the day, when Man United were winning everything, you didn't really see Man United doing that either. Man United would be nasty and they'd be physical and they'd be intimidating, but they wouldn't take the piss out of you like that. But there was that rivalry. And in the end, all Lewis Skelly's doing is standing up for himself. Erling Haaland certainly knows who he is now, doesn't he? I don't know.

I like that. I don't see a problem with that. You know, you stand up to people who call you out. You stand up to bullies. Not that I'm calling Erling Haaland a bully, but in that moment, you know, after the game when there was that sort of altercation, then that's all Lewis Skelly is doing. And I actually admire that. The other side of that, he can become a shrinking violet, can't he? And sort of...

I think there's a line. I understand the respect thing, but think about when you were that age what you would have done. It's easy when we're sitting and we're older and we're wiser to look back and say, well, you know, it shouldn't be doing that. It needs to show greater respect. Well, maybe Erling Haaland should have shown greater respect to Lewis Skelly at that particular moment because he, you know, he's still relatively young, but he was an 18-year-old once.

No, it's all true. I would say there's a fine line between standing up for yourself and disrespecting an established opponent. But look, that's their choice. It's Arsenal's choice. They'll be happy with it. Arsenal fans will be happy with it. I'm sure Mikel Arteta is happy with it. What they need to do now is back it up.

Another team who are still knocking on the door of the Champions League place. It seems like the whole top half of the Premier League are knocking on the door of the Champions League place as it's so tightly congested. You win a game, you drop out. So you win a game, you get in there. You lose a game, you drop out. Aston Villa are the personification of that.

slightly up and down feel at the top end of the Premier League at the moment Villa have now played eight Premier League games on the back of playing Champions League games and they've won only one of them

It's been a big problem for Unai Emery's team. They lost at Wolves on Saturday, 2-0. Afterwards, Emery, their Villa coach, said, we don't have the power of Liverpool or Man City. We need to replace the players that have left us. And this is going to get us into quite an interesting section on the comings and goings at Aston Villa, the way that the club works. They are still in touch with the top four. They've been active in the transfer window already, probably, probably,

the most active Premier League club so far as we sit here on Monday morning with

the best part of 18 hours of the window still, uh, left, uh, Diego Carlos has gone. Emmy Bundia has gone. John Duran has gone. Marcus Rashford is in Marco Asensio is in. And to get deep down into the, into the weeds of this topic, we're going to introduce a new section for the podcast. This is called know it in 90. We'll do this every so often. Um, for the remainder of the season. Um,

And what will happen is that we'll get an expert on the podcast to tell us all about his specialist subject in 90 seconds. And to get us going today, to tell us everything we need to know about Aston Villa and the way things work there on and off the field is our Midlands correspondent, Tom Colamossi. I think Aston Villa in 2025 are really, really interesting. And I'll tell you why. The pitch, it couldn't be more detailed. It couldn't be better prepared.

Unai Emery runs everything. He runs every training session, every individual meeting, every collective meeting. He will analyse the opposition in the absolute nth degree. Nothing is left to chance. Every little detail he tries to cater for and...

If they lose a match, it will never be because they haven't prepared well enough for it. On the recruitment side, I think it's very different. Monchi, the guy in charge of transfers, president of football operations is his title, is a famous man in European football. He was the guy who brought Dani Alves to Sevilla and sold him to Barcelona for many, many more times than he bought him.

But I wonder at his real role at Aston Villa. Is he there to drive recruitment or is he there to get the players that Unai Emery wants? And I think it's the latter. And I think Marco Asensio and Marcus Rashford are examples of that. I think a club with a clear recruitment strategy wouldn't have sold a centre-back or let an attacking midfielder out on loan as they did with Diego Carlos and Emi Buendia before securing replacements. They wouldn't be scrambling around

at the end of a window for Marcus Rashford, who's not played since December 12th, or Marco Asensio, who's never been a major player at a major club. So I think there's a degree of chaos behind the scenes at Villa. There's a degree of gambling. They just have to hope it works.

Tom Conny Mossy there, our Midlands correspondent. Chaos, gambling, strong words from Tom. Strong words also from Tom on Mail Online this Monday morning. He's written about this subject in some detail. Headline I'm looking at here says, "'Rashford brings more baggage to Villa than a long-haul flight,'

here's what they should have done. I think what's interesting about this, Chris, is that the way that Villa are going about it, it's a little bit

it's a little bit old school. It's, it's, it's, it's giving almost absolute power to the manager or first team coach, whatever you want, however you want to describe him, letting him, letting him choose the players, sometimes giving him what he wants, sometimes not giving him what he wants. It's how it used to be done. You know, you was, how it was done when you, when you were playing. It's,

It doesn't tend to be the way these days. These days, Premier League clubs tend to be set up with a structure, chairman, chief executive, football director, if they have one. And the idea is that the manager or the coach gets slotted in and out of that system. And when a manager leaves, the system remains. It's designed to encourage flow and consistency and a direction of travel and to minimise the disruption that often comes when a manager leaves.

So the question is, for Villa, I suppose, is it the right way? I suppose it is while it works. But what happens when Emery goes? Does the whole thing fall down? But that's the same with any club. I think with regards to transfers, different clubs have different strategies where some managers do have a greater say in bringing players in than others. But...

The game has certainly changed in terms of football club models and sporting directors and the stuff you talked about and the fact that the club will carry on, but the coach will come in. He won't have a say in who comes into the club.

that'll be down to the sporting director. They will just, the coach will just coach and that's it and try and progress the team. But with Aston Villa, there does seem a bit of an element where they're making it up as they go along. And certainly the signing of Marcus Rashford and, or Marcus Rashford, the signings, I should say, of Marcus Rashford and Asensio,

They seem quite muddled, and I don't think desperate is the right word, but they seem to be a big gamble because Asensio hasn't played regular football for a long, long time now. So what's there to suggest that Unai Emery is going to get the best out of Asensio? And Marcus Rashford, he hasn't kicked a ball in two years, really. Now, if he gets back to the Marcus Rashford, which we all know that...

that he may be capable of, then Villa have won a watch, haven't they? But there's also the other side. You know, it's interesting. Managers talk about signing, you know, not just the player, but the right character. Are you telling me they've signed the right character with Marcus Rashford, with all the baggage and all the trouble which has gone on at Manchester United?

my issue with the Rashford thing is, is whether, uh, whether Rashford will be able to leave the problems behind that he thinks have afflicted him at, at, at Manchester United. The problem with football is that if you're not, uh,

if you've lost a bit of the love, if you've lost a bit of the enthusiasm, it's sometimes that if you've lost a bit of that desire, innate desire to really work hard, sometimes a move to a new club isn't enough. Sometimes those problems follow you to that new club. And I would imagine, I can imagine what might happen with Marcus is it will get there. He'll score in his first game. He'll hit the ground running. People say that he's proving everybody wrong. And then over the course of time, it'll dip again. That is what I think might happen.

It'd be lovely if I was to be proved wrong. Back to the Villa thing specifically, it is interesting that

I remember when Villa hired Unai Emery and essentially changed the whole setup at Villa Park. The CEO went Christian Purslow. The director of football went Johan Lange. He went to Spurs. He was the guy, by the way, Lange, who identified and signed Emi Martinez, John Duran, Leon Bailey, Boubacar Kamara. They were all signed on Lange's watch. He's got quite a good record. And they got rid of him because Emery wanted Monchi to...

in his old sporting director from Seville. I don't think I've ever known a manager essentially appoint a sporting director. It's normally the other way around. And I think that is the danger that Tom Colamossi alludes to, that we've now got a setup at Villa where the manager is all powerful. And while things go well on the field,

as they have been. We were at Villa Park last Wednesday to watch Villa beat Celtic in the Champions League. Wonderful night. You were there when they beat Bayern Munich in the Champions League. Wonderful night. So as long as it all keeps ticking along like that on the field, it's fine. But the question comes when things change, because they always change. Things always change in football. So what happens then? Girl, you have got to try this Laneige lip mask. Trust me, my lips needed that love.

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Another home defeat for Ruben Amirim. Kobe Maynew playing as a false nine, Chris.

I was at the Brentford's G-Tech Stadium yesterday ahead of the Tottenham game when that particular piece of team news came in. Jaws hit the floor. It would look terribly smart, Amrim, if it had paid off, but it didn't pay off. And I'm sorry, that just looks like a bit of a dumb play as far as I'm concerned.

You can look at that two ways. What it does tell you is that he doesn't really rate Xerxe and Rasmus Hoyland and how they will be feeling. Well, I mean, if it was me, I'd be feeling slightly humiliated, the fact that he's had to resort to that. But Manchester United aren't going to get relegated this season and...

Maybe it's a message that he doesn't rate these guys, Xerxes and Hoyland, and he's just going to try things. He's just going to experiment from now to the end of the season and see if things work and if there's some sort of fit which he can find. But on the face of it, I did find it strange, but maybe it's a longer-term power play from him.

He does feel a little bit like that because he has also said on record that he hopes Manchester United can find him a centre forward on the last day of the window. But I'm afraid there are more straightforward and grown-up ways of getting that message across. You can just tell the board. You can say it in public. I mean, if he doesn't trust Hoyland and Xerxe, and let's face it, both of them have had a shot at it. Hoyland, I was at that game with Craven Cottage last Sunday.

when United beat Fulham. Hoyland played up front that day, looked absolutely lost. Xerxe isn't a natural goal scorer. But if you're not going to play them, if you're going to play a false nine, I mean, goodness me, I think any football fan would have said, well, okay, well, Bruno Fernandes is probably the candidate for that role. Kobe Manu, really? If Eric Ten Hag had done that, Eric Ten Hag had done that, he'd have been laughed out of Old Trafford.

playing Kobe Maynou as a false nine. And I'm sorry that Amir is already under a bit of pressure. His rigidity when it comes to this three at the back system is being questioned. His inability seemingly to get a regular tune out of the team is being questioned. And I think when you then go and make a selection like that, then you just run the risk of heaping a whole load of pressure back onto yourself. And that is exactly what he's done here.

Right, my friend, let's move swiftly along. Let's do some questions for Chris. This is from Carl on Instagram.

Chris, have you ever been in a situation such as Erling Haaland where a centre-back like Gabriel tries to goad you? If so, how did you respond? Well, every time I played against Martin Keown, I had a similar experience. Martin used to pinch me and I just used to question why he was pinching me and he just used to say there's more of that to come. So I just used to get on with it and let Martin pinch me really. What a strange bloke.

This is from Beans on X. Chris, your thoughts on the emotion when Jota scored for Celtic on his comeback game this weekend? My thoughts are that he should never have left. He went to Saudi for the money and for a young player to do that, I think it was an outpouring of emotion because he feels loved by the Celtic support and would have regretted

the fact that he did leave 18 months ago, it was actually a nice moment in the end and shows his love for the club but also that he feels really wanted again. So he made a mistake, now he's back. Fergal Hardiman on X. Chris, of all the former clubs you played for, which result do you check first? Oh, that's a low blow, Fergal, isn't it? Just a question. At the minute, Nottingham Forest. Not Bournemouth.

Who have you been like that for? So, Norsken Forest. Have you ever played for Norsken Forest? No. Which of the former clubs you played for do you check first? Oh, so, which... I'd check them all. It's Norwich. Maybe Blackburn. Blackburn played well the other night. You're on the fence, Chris. Matthew Donnelly on X. Chugman United have sold Anthony Alanga. He's tearing it up at Norsken Forest.

Yeah, great question. No, they shouldn't because he's playing really well, but he's probably delighted that he's gone to Nottingham Forest to Langer his. He is playing well, good enough for an elite Premier League club, which is what Manchester United must aim to be. I'm not sure. And finally, this is a question for me and Ladyman on It's All Kicking Off. Was Liverpool's penalty at Bournemouth a soft one? Because I thought it was.

I thought it was a penalty. Do you? I don't. Yeah, I do. It was a foul in the build-up. Clyde was fouled in the build-up. That's a different thing, isn't it? That's a totally different thing. But I thought there was a clip and Gakpo then, because of the clip, his feet got sort of muddled and went down. I won a penalty like that for Norwich City at Old Trafford in the early 90s when I paced Gary Pallister and there was a clip. And people say to this day that I dived. I didn't. I was clipped.

we've only been doing this podcast for 18 months and I think that is already about the fourth time that you've mentioned outpacing Gary Pallister for that penalty clearly very very proud of it yes you have yeah anyway that

That's a good section. We love that question for Chris section. Keep those coming. The best place to put them is on X. You can actually place them anywhere you wish. You know that you can go to Spotify or Apple Podcasts, leave questions and comments in the section beneath the show notes while you're there. Hit the follow button and leave us comments

We've got a comment here from one of our friends, Christian Tonnies. We've heard from Christian before. This was on Spotify talking about last week's little debate we had about whether Celtic and Rangers should be invited into the English Premier League, something that Chris and I know will never happen. You both make me laugh, says Christian, suggesting that Celtic and Rangers are bigger than English clubs. That's ridiculous.

Those clubs don't want to leave the Scottish League because that's the only way they'll ever get into the Champions League. They should stay put in their Mickey Mouse League. Not exactly on the fence there, Christian. Let us know what you think about... He's so wrong. You're so wrong, Christian. No.

Let us know about the topics we've talked about on today's show so far. Do you think Miles Lewis Skelly has gone too far in goading Erling Haaland? Or did Haaland get exactly what he deserved after his behaviour in the first game at the Etihad back in October?

September. Am I right to still feel that Arsenal could pip Liverpool to the league title? What do we think about Marcus Rashford and his move to Villa? Is that a step up? The league table seems to suggest it is. Ruben Amarin and his decision to play Kobe Mainu as a false nine for Manchester United. What's all that about? Is that sign of coaching intelligence or is it just a

a bit desperate. Let us know, you know where you can do it. Find us an ex. I'm the one with the silly name and Chris is the one with the famous name. You can also leave comments on Instagram and TikTok and Mail Sports, other social platforms. Make sure you're following. Now,

Chris, I presume that you've switched your allegiance back to Nottingham Forest, having briefly tipped Bournemouth for the top four last... Well, I've always been, you know, being Nottingham born and bred, I've always wanted Nottingham Forest to finish in the top four. But that's, you know, that was just a prediction, Ian. Well, they scored seven against Brighton on the back of 37% possession on Saturday at the City ground. Nuno Espirito Santos...

Ever fascinating, Forrest Side. Another fabulous performance. Hatcher for Chris Wood. We've talked about him before. I want to touch on one thing. I took him out of my fantasy team. You fool. Well, who do you replace him with? That's all that matters. Undyne Everton. He scored a penalty, didn't he?

He didn't score three, did he? No, he didn't score three. Well, there you go. You see, you're on the David Moyes party bus as well, aren't you? Everybody's on it. Well, I didn't write a stupid tweet about Everton like you did. You'll be piling in on my ex.

on my ex feed as soon as this recording is over. One thing I did notice when I was watching Matchday on Saturday night about the Forest-Brighton game, the Brighton manager, Fabian Herzler, young German coach who we are an admirer of, done some good things in his first season at Brighton. He was booked during the game

He's been booked five times now this season and has been sent off once, which begs the question, are the deterrents handed out by managers when they are booked, when they are sent off, strong enough? It would appear to me that they probably aren't if you've got a repeat offender such as Herzl. Mm.

Well, yeah, I mean, well, you know the answer to that question you've just asked, Ian. Yeah, of course not.

I tell you, it's a bad look for him. And also, he's got to think about the message that sends to his players. If they see a manager continuously who's disciplined on the touchline, then that certainly can filter onto the pitch. How can he go in the dressing room after games and call out players for daft bookings when he can't keep his head himself?

Yeah. When I did the Everton Stadium tour earlier this season in December, ahead of a... You won't be going back, will you? I won't, no. I've actually got to go. Got to go next Wednesday when they play Liverpool. Anyway, yeah, when I did the Goodison Stadium tour, I wanted to go and have a look around before they knocked the place down. And also I was writing something about the last Merseyside derby at Goodison, blah, blah, blah. When you do that tour and when you get shown up into the director's box,

they show you a couple of seats on the end of a row in the director's box. One of them has been left empty in memory of the late Everton owner Bill Kenwright, which is a nice touch. And the one next to it was always kept empty for Sean Dyche and I presume now for David Moyes. They keep it empty, presuming that at some point the manager will be invited by the match officials to go up and sit there.

And they want to make sure that when that happens, he's got somewhere to park his bottom. But it does play to this serious point of, surely if you've got a repeat offender such as Hertzler, the only way, and there are others, of course, the only way you're really going to...

to dissuade them from this behaviour is to give them lengthy touchline bans, three games, four games, five games, because I think any team can cope with a manager not being in the dugout for one game, you know, mobile phones, all the rest of it.

Any team can cope with that. But I think if a manager's banned from the touchline and from the dressing room before and after a game and at halftime for, say, five or six games, that sends a message. And at a time when we are continually talking about managerial, manager's behaviour, referees' performances, the relationship between the two, there's an obvious open goal there for the football authorities to kick a ball straight into, is there not?

Yeah, I totally agree with you. It's, you know, there has to be, there has to be a big enough deterrent. The other thing which I may not be 100% certain on this, you know, when managers get fined, I'm not sure that would come out of their pocket. I suspect the club would pay for that on behalf of the manager. I don't know that, but certainly... I suspect it's the opposite. Yeah.

Do you really? I'll find out. It's a very, very good question. Does anybody know? Let us know. When a manager gets fined, does he pay it?

Or do the club play it? Any managers listening? Any chief executives listening? Any particularly well-informed football supporters listening? Any other journalists listening? Or journalists, yeah. Anyone at the FA listening? Anyone who knows the answer to that very good question, please let us know. You know where to find us. A better day for Ange Postel. Colgate, as I said, I was at the G-Tech as his Tottenham team. I was ambulance chasing, smelling blood. Yeah, you were. Smelling blood. I wondered why you were there.

I just want to touch on one thing, Chris. You talked about Daniel Levy giving and help, bringing him a player. He's brought him an Austrian central defender, Kevin Danso, on loan, 26 years of age. You know, one in the door and good news for him. And Mickey van der Ven, he left him out at the weekend, didn't he? Nursing him back.

Huge game on Thursday against Liverpool, isn't it, for Ainge Postacoglu? But he needed that win just to steady the ship. Yeah, I would presume that that will be the central defensive partnership for that game. Danso and Van de Ven, we would think, Abbey Anfield for that one. Former Liverpool captain...

Jordan Henderson, nice link there for me. Nice link. The way I go from that into Jordan Henderson, it's quite something. It really is. It's self-praise, self-praise, no praise. That's what they say. That's what they say. Anyway, former Liverpool captain Jordan Henderson. Tell you what, Chris, he has had a funny old year and that's a polite way of putting it. Let's just, let's just recap. Upset everybody by leaving Liverpool for Saudi Arabia, England,

18 months ago, then upset everybody in Saudi Arabia for leaving Saudi Arabia to go to Ajax 12 months ago. And now he's upsetting everybody in Amsterdam. It turns out, um, brief backstory. Um, last Thursday, uh, Ajax were playing Galatasaray in Europe. And there was talk swirling around the Dutch media that Jordan Henderson was trying to engineer a move away from Ajax to Monaco. Um, uh,

Henderson played in the game against Galatasaray, didn't have the armband on. Some suggested in the Dutch media that he didn't want to wear it. Henderson has denied that. Then there was a suggestion afterwards that he didn't wave at the supporters. Henderson has denied that too. Anyway, it all came to a head on Sunday after Ajax had played away.

Feyenoord Henderson addressed the media and got into this rather, let's say, forthright exchange with the Dutch football writer, Mike Verwaaij. Can you say, Jordan, why you wanted to make a transfer to Monaco? Based on what again? The coach just told us that you wanted to go to Monaco. The coach told you that I wanted to go to Monaco? Yeah, because you had the big over.

Because I had a big offer. It's not true. Then you have to tell the coach that it's not true. Yeah. But did Ajax tell you they wanted to sell you? Did Ajax say they wanted to sell us? Yeah. Well, they were negotiating, so I'd imagine they did, yeah. They were negotiating with Monaco? For a fee, yeah. And you wanted a transfer free? No, no, no. They were negotiating a fee. But again, Mike, it's not about the details. I'm not giving you details. I know the truth. I know what happened.

I'm not here to give you details, I'm just here to tell you. From my side... But you say it's not true. Can you give details about the conversation with Alex? No, I don't need to. I don't need to. You can, though. It sounds like you can, anyway. I think you read it. Eh? Yeah, yeah. And it was untrue? What was untrue? 99% of it. Yeah, but what? Give an example. What part? The bit before the game or the bit after? How did he convince you to stay?

It wasn't him. And he didn't need to convince us. Who convinced you to stay? Nobody convinced us. Again, you're going into the detail. It's not about the detail. But you know the details. Give us the details. If you tell us, it's not true. No, no, no, no, no. I don't need to.

I don't need to sit here and defend what I... Can you imagine that people thought that you wanted to force a pressure? But why did you think that? Because of your behaviour on Thursday? Because of my behaviour? In what way? Not being a captain? Yeah, but you don't know... Not celebrating the second goal? Yeah, but you don't know the information. I've just explained this. I'm not thanking the crowd.

I've just explained the second goal, not what? Thanking the crowd after the game. I clapped the crowd when I went off. You made your point about this. Is there anyone who would like to talk about the game today or maybe looking forward to the next one? Desperate Ajax press officer at the end there saying, anybody want to talk about the game, please? Was he in on it? Was the press officer in on it? Yeah, he was sitting there. Anybody want to talk about the game to stop my most hyped profile player? No, but was he in on it?

On the Henderson attack. Was he part of all that? That's the way it sounded to me. Because why didn't he get in earlier? Yeah, he might have. He was drowning Jordan Henderson there, wasn't he? I mean, look, I asked somebody who I know and trust...

very well in Holland this morning before he started the podcast about Mark Furwey. And my friend said to me, Mike Furwey is basically the best connected journalist in Holland. He gets about 28, don't know why 28, but 28 scoops a season. You are a brave footballer if you take him on in public. Jordan Henderson has just dug himself a very big hole. I mean, from a journalist point of view,

what I, the, the, the skill from Mike Furwey there of, of De Telegraaf, the Dutch, Amsterdam based Dutch daily newspaper, very big, very great reputation for sport, De Telegraaf. Um,

The skill in what he did there was essentially drop it on Jordan's toes by saying, you're telling me my article wasn't true. You're telling me my details are wrong. You say it's 99% untrue. Then tell me which are the untrue bits. And Jordan didn't do it, did he? He didn't do it. I mean, the detail was important there. And the fact Jordan didn't give detail about what he was aggrieved about then, yeah, said it all.

Yeah. The view from Holland on the Henderson situation, particularly from Ajax, is that he is their best paid player. They are in the middle of a title race, the second at the moment, but they think they can do it and they absolutely have no desire to sell their captain and their best player. I am told by my friend in Holland that...

Ajax directors actually stormed down to the dressing room after the Galatasaray game on Thursday to make it clear to Jordan that he wasn't going to be going. Henderson seems to be denying much of this. Indeed, all of this seems to be suggesting that the club were trying to sell him

two versions of events floating around in Holland. But I think what we can say there is that it all adds up to a pretty uncomfortable situation for Jordan. And I do feel a little bit sorry for him. He's made some, he probably hasn't made the best decisions of his life in the last 18 months, but I still think fundamentally he's a footballer, something to offer. I think fundamentally he's still a good bloke, but he did come out on the wrong side

of that exchange with Mike Furwey. Chris, I would imagine when you used to have argy-bargies with journalists back in the day, and I know you had some, at least you knew that there was only two or three people listening. The problem these days, of course, is that everything's on telly, everything appears on social media, the whole world gets to see it. And I think if that had been a boxing match between Furwey and Henderson, then I think it would have been stopped completely.

after 20 seconds or so to prevent Jordan taking any further punishment. Yeah, absolutely. I remember pinning a journalist up against the wall at Blackburn who called me a flop once. Do you want to name him? No. I might know him. Well, you probably do. You know everyone. We've got friends in Holland. Name names. Come on.

No, it was because it was, no, I'm not going to name names. Did you actually get him up against the wall? Yeah, I didn't threaten him as such. Really? How do you get someone up against the wall without threatening them? Just, you know, just corner them in and sort of a few pokes. What were you going to do, tickle him? And that was that.

Tickle him to death. Kiss him. I always got a solid eight in the paper from that moment onwards. Right, moments of the weekend. You or me first, my friend.

Well, you normally have eight. So I'm going to go for my moment of the weekend, my Nottingham Forest. Proud Nottingham boy, Ian, as you well know. But 7-0 they won. But the Gedling Inn in Nottingham gave a free pint for every time that Nottingham Forest scored a goal. And that would have cost them a fair few quid.

In the end, Ian. That was actually one of my moments the weekend, but it's okay because it enables me to put a little bit of the flesh on your bones. Absolutely right. The Gedlington. Landlady Becky Webster came up with the plan, try and get a few guys and girls in to watch the game. 300 pints she ended up giving away for free. 300 pints, seven goals. But she did say afterwards...

It was a surprise that they scored seven, but it's nice to get behind the team. It's good for the whole city. They're putting us on the map and Nottingham Forest are absolutely doing that. Lovely, lovely story. It goes as well, I've got a couple of others lined up. Back to Holland, by the way, Robin Van Persie's

Her and Wien drew 2-2 with Fortuna-Sittard. Only for Van Persie to point out afterwards that the opposition had had 12 men on the field at one point. Substitute had gone on, Bloke hadn't come off. You think we've got problems with VAR over here? Somebody certainly needs to be paying more attention in Holland. And the other one, Richie Wellens, manager of Leighton Orient, responded to disappointing defeat at the weekend.

being asked about his injury list. And so I'm not going to talk about injuries. I'm not Hans Boster Coghlu, which was probably a brave thing to say, but particularly so given that Orient and Tottenham have a bit of a relationship whereby Tottenham tend to alone orient a few of those players. So a few of their players. So dear old Ritchie had to go into reverse pretty quickly on that one. Yes, he did. And to be fair to him, issued what was a very grown up,

And apparently heartfelt apology. Just his childish comment before was okay though. Well, look, ruling life,

If you mess up, at least apologise. And he did. He hasn't run away from it. Fair enough. He's put his hand up and said, yeah, shouldn't have said it. There we go. Fair play, Richie. We all live and learn. Right, there we go, my friend. That's the end of it for today. We've covered quite a bit of ground. Just to remind you all that if you want to get in touch and have a chat about it, just

Today's hot topics, really. Arji Barji at the Emirates. Who was in the right and who was in the wrong there? Harlan versus Gabriel. Harlan versus Myles Lewis-Skelly. That's something we didn't think we'd be talking about at the start of the season.

City have conceded 35 goals, even more than Manchester United. Who would have thought that? What do we think of the transfer policy at Aston Villa? Tom Colomossi thinks that manager Una Emery has got too much control. Give us a shout on that one. Kobe Mayne up front for Manchester United. What was Ruben Emery in?

thinking, managers behaving badly, touchline bans. Do we think there should be more than one game at a time? And who pays them? When a manager gets fined, who pays the bill? The manager or the Football Club? Anybody got an idea? Let us know. And Jordan Henderson versus Mike Furwey in Holland. That was a bit of a row. That reminded me a little bit of myself.

and Eric Ten Haag. You know where to find us, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, hit us up on the socials. We've got an email address, iako.dailymail.co.uk. You can go there too. And if you don't fancy any of that, don't worry about it. We'll be back here on Thursday to go all around the mountain one more time. I am Ian Ladyman, the chap who likes to get journeys up against the wall when the mean to him is Chris Sutton. And the spin is all kicking off.