Why it’s ‘ridiculous’ for Gary Neville to Suggest Players are ‘micromanaged’
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Morning, Chris Sutton. We are getting told off again by our listeners, or I in particular am getting told off by our listeners. Last week, Chris McHale accused us of trying to be funny when we aren't. And now I'm getting it in the neck from Chris Round for my pronunciation of players' names. Two in particular he's not happy about. So you're going to help me out here because you're the broadcaster. You're the one who does all the research, right?

Um, when you're doing your seven 75 other jobs. So the Everton defender who was accused of, um, fouling Alexis McAllister last week in the Manchester, in the Merseyside Derby, how do we pronounce his name? Well, that's very interesting because I've heard different pronunciations, not pronounced pronunciations. Um, how do you do it? Uh, uh,

I call him Tarkovsky, but a lot of people call him Tarkowski. That sounds like a little bit American. Yeah, I've been calling him Tarkovsky. Tarkovsky, according to the internet. So I think you're right. James Tarkovsky. So that's one. And the other one is the German midfielder who plays for Manchester City, who I interviewed earlier this season. Still can't get it right. Go on.

You call him Gundogan, don't you? It's terrible. Go on. Gundogan. Gundogan. So, with apologies to... He's only been Gundogan for years. With apologies to...

James Tarkovsky and Ilkay Gundogan and indeed Chris Round. There we go. We'll try and get better. Chris actually says, Ian, please get your pronunciation of players' names right. You get Gundogan and Tarkovsky wrong every time. It's unbecoming. You're a journalist.

so surely a basic understanding of pronunciation is a minimum entry requirement clearly not I've been at this for 30 years so clearly not but fair point Chris Round and we will do better from this point on anyway Chris good to see you I was at the game of the weekend can I just have you got a house full there I can hear a lot of

noise well it's Easter holidays isn't it Easter holidays so so Ether is off school and bowling she's been awake since half past six bowling around in the corridor outside and the cat's been involved again they're all off to Knowlesley Safari Park soon so calm will soon descend on the household Knowlesley Safari Park what have they got there what have they got in there

Lions? Lions are amazing at Nolsi Safari Park. Real lions? The lions at Nolsi Safari Park are absolutely fabulous. Absolutely fabulous. Better than any other safari park in the world, are they? Better than any other lions I've ever seen. The

The lions at the fire park, although not as good as the elephants at Chester Zoo, which are quite something. The monkey enclosure at Knowlesley, I always refuse to go through because you drive your car through and the monkeys climb all over your windscreen and pull your windscreen wipers off, et cetera. And I do have a company vehicle, so I've always think it's probably not the best idea to drive the company vehicle through the monkey enclosure at Knowlesley. So we usually look through the wire from the outside.

Not quite the same experience. Apologies to Knowlesley Safari Park if that puts people off, that little thing you said about the monkey and poacher. No, you don't have to go through. You have the option. Just apologies to them. You have the option of going through

in your car or the outside. And the tigers, by the way, the tigers are part of the foot safari. They are also magnificent. So there you go. There's today's advert for Nolsi Safari Park. Other safari parks are available, of course. Chris, there was nothing wild about the Manchester Derby. I was at that game. It was supposed to be the game of the weekend. It turned out to be the worst game of the weekend. 0-0. One of the worst Manchester Derbys ever.

I've ever seen. Um, no surprise that the former Manchester United crew in the sky commentary box, um, was soon ripping into it. Um, Roy Keane, um, has written off Manchester United's chances next season already said they won't get into the top six. Gary Neville, a little bit more nuanced. He's talking about the way that players are coached. Um, this was a quote from Gary Neville after the game. Um,

It looks like it's Sunday afternoon and all the players are going to go off for a roast dinner together now. His point is it was far too friendly. These players were micromanaged within an inch of their lives. That game was so robotic and it's symptomatic of a lot of the games we are watching nowadays. It's not good enough to Manchester Derby and it should have more blood, thunder and risk involved.

and courage. I would agree with the last bit. There was a lack of intensity, but I'm not sure whether Gary or anybody else should be extrapolating the problems of one game, um,

into a supposed malaise affecting the rest of the league. I'm not sure I see that. Yeah, I don't quite know what he means by that. So under the previous manager, Ten Hag, they were undercoached and didn't have an identity. And he took a lot of flack for that, Ten Hag. And now they're overcoached Manchester United under Amorim. And Bruno Fernandes has to play a certain way. He can't, if he...

you know, wants to play off the cuff and see a pass and, and have a shot from distance. He's not allowed to do that. But Pep Guardiola's Manchester City for years and years and years when they've been, they've been dominant. You know, he's,

we view Pep as being one of the best coaches out there. So, but still Kevin De Bruyne, I think he always makes his own decisions. Teams set up to play in a framework and a structure, but Manchester City's problem isn't that they are micromanaged. It's just that there are too many players off form and too many ageing players in that team. As soon as I saw the midfield, Gundogan, or as soon as I saw Gundogan and...

and Bernardo Silva and Kevin De Bruyne in that team. I thought they're going to struggle. They're great players. I've said many times on this podcast, they do not have the legs anymore. And you throw Phil Foden into the mix in his form. It's not because they're micromanaged. It's just that they're having a particularly poor season in Manchester City. I think we've said before, we've talked about this in the context of Jack Grealish, for example. I think that...

Pep Guardiola does manage teams in a certain way. There is a structure, but there are, I think...

I think I'm trying to think of the right word. There are some very unshakable principles that he asks his players to abide by positionally, what they do when they get the ball. But the fact is that when it works... And by the way, Ian, and by the way, we've praised them for years. That's what I mean. For that. And Peppers changed...

coaching in this country and everybody sees him as a pioneer. So you can't have it on both fronts, can you? You can't on the one side laud him for being such a great coach and then all of a sudden...

when they've had a difficult season, say they're being micromanaged. That's just ridiculous. You've taken the words out of my mouth. I think that's absolutely right. They've given us so much over the years, Pep Guardiola's City team. There are some people, my father is one of them, who don't like the...

the monotony of passing and possession, et cetera. But I think on the whole, most of us see the beauty in what City have done over the years. And the fact is that it's not working. It's not working at the moment. They were awful yesterday. They were. I've written on Mail Online this morning, my match report, they were like ghosts, the City players, like ghosts in sky blue. They were awful.

Awful, unrecognisable, pedestrian, playing without energy, playing without rhythm, playing without tempo, playing without idea, playing without imagination. But it's just a football team playing badly. It happens. To me, it's not symptomatic of overcoaching. It's not symptomatic of micromanaging, robotic players. And Manchester United, I am one of these people who sees football

some progress now in the way that United are playing for Ruben Amirim. Yes, they are small steps, but maybe small steps are the way to go when you're 13th in the Premier League. I saw signs of progress when they lost at Nottingham Forest in the last midweek in the way they keep the ball, the way they're not giving the ball up as cheaply, the way they can move the ball from one end of the field to the other.

I saw it again yesterday, but what they haven't got is a centre forward. They might as well be playing with 10. Hoyland, Rasmus Hoyland, bless him, is a spent force at Manchester United already. At least that's the way that he looks. Every time Manchester United get within...

shooting distance, literally shooting distance of the goal. Everything tends to break, to break down. Um, and I think that is a problem that they're going to try and solve this summer. We'll get to that in a minute. Just going back to the original point that Gary Neville makes, I certainly don't think that fans of Aston Villa, uh,

Crystal Palace, Fulham, just going on what we've seen this weekend. Three teams there who got very, very good results in what looked like very good games of football. I don't think they'll be looking at players like Morgan Rodgers, Adam Wharton, Alex Iwobi,

and saying that their players are being micromanaged and overcoached and being discouraged from playing with freedom. I think they would see the opposite, wouldn't you? The Villa Forest game on Saturday was fantastic.

Yeah, every, you know, I mentioned Ten Hag earlier and I do stand by that. You know, Ten Hag was heavily criticised, wasn't he, for Manchester United, for his team not having an identity. Every team sets up and has a structure. Every coach who coaches in the Premier League does that. It's not like the impression that years ago, we had structures years ago before the start of the Premier League, at the start of the Premier League season,

era teams are coached to play in a certain way but you know certainly you know we can't we can't criticize coaches now the likes of you know Emery for the way that they play and there'll always be an element of you know like you said you mentioned Morgan Rogers Asensio players like that you know you they play with freedom they make their own decisions in the final third and you know

Mention Bruno Fernandes, Kevin De Bruyne. You don't tell them who to pass to, when to pass. They pick their moments and that's why we look at both those players and see them as huge talents. That's what they are. You can't tell them what to do in the final third. They play as they see. And at clubs like Villa and Forest and Fulham and many, many others that we could mention in the Premier League, we see...

good players being made better by the coaches. There's been a lot of that this season. Was Anceli Alanga micromanaged when he strode 85 yards up the pitch and had the option to pass left, I think, to Morgan Gibbs-White, but the Manchester United defenders just backed off and backed off and backed off. Then he made...

his own decision to slot it in the corner when they gave him that option. So that's not micromanagement, that's good management, but also players having the freedom to play as they see it. Yeah, I think you've made your point very, very well. Chris Wheeler, our Manchester United correspondent, wrote last week that Liam De Lappe, the Ipswich forward,

is high up Manchester United's list in terms of a centre forward this summer. I was actually told yesterday that he is top of that list. Who told you that? I think we can, well, somebody that I trust. So I think we can, I think we can assume that that is the case. Very quickly, is he the answer? Is he good enough? Can he take that step up? He's been, he's been a,

He's been a rare bright spark in the gloom at Portman Road this season. Is he good enough to take the step up from Ipswich to Manchester United, Chris? I really like what I've seen of him. When you say take that step up, are you talking about being the absolute finished article?

If Manchester United sign him? No, no. But I'm asking you, can he do well? Can he improve them?

Yeah, I think he can. He's got a good left foot. He's got a good right foot. That makes him unpredictable. I really like that about him. I think if there's parts of his game he can improve on, he's quite a big guy, but I think he can prove his sort of aerial ability. But in terms of back to goal, running channels, he's mobile. He's quick enough. He's cocky. He's arrogant. He backs himself unnoticed.

I like that. I really like that. I think he's going to be another one of those in seasons to come where people look at him and think, well, he was at Manchester City. A bit like the old Cole Palmer one. Pep Guardiola should never have let this guy go. I think he'll be a really decent piece of business.

I mean, I disagree with you, but we're not going to get into it. I don't blame City for letting him go. He wasn't going to get in the team ahead of Erling Haaland. Haaland plays every week. The only player we want centre forward. But let's not get into that. City to United via Ipswich would be an interesting route for a player to move forward.

across Manchester. Let's see what happens. Liam de Lappe, Manchester United's number one target going into summer transfer window. You mentioned this player earlier, Chris. We'll do this quickly. Phil Foden,

Probably wasn't the worst player on the field at Old Trafford on Sunday, but he was certainly one of them. Phil Foden, last year's double player of the year, looks absolutely broken. Pep Guardiola spoke afterwards about some of the taunting that Foden was getting from the United support on the Stretford end. We don't need to go deep into that one. I think we know what we think of that. But Foden himself looks ruined, Chris. He looks ruined. He looks exhausted.

He looks like he needs a rest. And I'm mentioning this because we know about the Club World Cup this summer. We know about Man City's involvement, their commitment to it. We've spoken before about what we think of it. Notice that Thomas Frank, the Brentford manager, called it ridiculous over the weekend. I wouldn't disagree.

I don't think Foden should go, right? And I also think that at times with footballers, you get to a point where you've got to ask yourself, do we need that player for this tournament?

And also, what is best for him? Do we have a duty of care towards that footballer as our player, our employee? Do we have a duty of care towards him to put his needs ahead of our needs as a team and a club? Because I'm not sure that happens very often in football. And I think we're getting to that point with Phil Foden. I think that guy needs...

needs to be left at home in June and July and told to take a breath and get himself ready for next season. I think they all shouldn't go based on the form this season, but why are you singling out Phil Foden? Because he looks ruined, Chris. He looks ruined. So does Bernardo Silva. Shall we leave him at home as well?

Well, Bernardo Silva's at the other end. Hang on, you've asked me the question. Bernardo Silva and Gundogan are at the other end of their careers. Okay. You've got to look at Phil Foden and the next 10 years. You don't need to do that with Gundogan and Silva. So just block them? No, no.

I'm not saying that at all. And you know, I'm not, you'd be being a bit facetious. I'm just singling out Foden in particular because the, you could, you can ask a question of Silva and Gundogan and maybe put it down. You may, as we do with De Bruyne, put it down to age and put it down to age. You can put it down to the cumulative effect of playing at the top level for 10, 12, 13 years. You can't say that with Phil Foden. He's a young player. So there's got to be another reason for what we are seeing.

That's why I'm singing out Phil Foden. It's just had what all players have. It's going through what all players go through. I went through it many times where you're just... Last season, you mentioned he was the best player in the country. Think about that. The best player in the country. Best player in the Premier League, Phil Foden. And now he's dipped. Yeah.

He's not a dip. He's on the floor, Chris. He's on the floor. But as I said, he's not the only one at Manchester City. I think there's a case of, you know, you're picking him out because of his age and that he's younger, but he's no, there isn't, I don't see the difference in the age thing as you're seeing it. He is one of many at Manchester City whose form has fallen off a cliff.

this season and look if I mean Pep is wise enough old enough in the twos smart enough to realise if there is an issue you know beyond football whether he needs a mental break from it then he will do that but I do think that you can say that about any Manchester City player this season

De Bruyne, of course, played his last Manchester derby yesterday. Not a great day for him either. And Premier League greats.

Chris, would you put him in that category? I don't know anybody who I've met who wouldn't have him down as a Premier League great. Jamie Carragher said there's only Thierry Henry can match his influence across the years of the Premier League as a foreign player. Not sure about that. I think David Silva was certainly up there in that conversation. Yeah.

Kenton R? Yeah, indeed. So there you go. Roy Keane? Is Roy Keane? Is he a foreigner, Roy Keane? I don't think so. You know, Kenton R. I don't think Ireland's in the EU, isn't it? Robin Van Persie. If you want to put Roy Keane in there, I'm not going to argue with you. I'm not going to argue with you. I don't know.

So there we go. But that's probably a reasonable debating point for some of our listeners. If you've got a view on that, where does Kevin De Bruyne stand in the pantheon of great players in the Premier League? Is he the greatest foreign player ever to walk across our green acres? Is he the greatest? Is he the greatest Manchester City player of the Premier League era? And is he the greatest attacking midfielder of the Premier League era?

Okay, let's have some answers. Let's have some answers to that question. Have you got an opinion? You've got an opinion on everything else? No, but I'm aware that we've been talking for 24 minutes and we've got other things to talk about. So I'm not going to dive into that one right now, but I do, I'm keen to hear people's views on a Liam DeLapp situation. Can he solve Manchester United's attacking problems next season? Would he be the right man for Ruben Amarim's

I'm shot shy team Phil Foden. Should he be going to America for the club or a cup? And is Gary Neville right or not? When he says that the influence of coaches like Pep Guardiola is spreading across the Premier League in terms of the micromanagement of players and not always in a good way. You can find us on X. I'm the one with the silly name and Chris is the one with the famous name. You can also go to male sports, social platforms on Instagram and Facebook and TikTok and indeed X.com.

And you can go to Spotify or Apple Podcasts, wherever it is that you listen to the show. Leave a comment there while you're at it. Hit the follow button and leave us a five-star rating. No five-star rating for Liverpool. Chris at Craven Cottage on Sunday. They fell to only their second league defeat of the season. Awful first half, 3-1 down at the break. Rallied in the second half but could only score one. Hit the bar late on, lost the game 2-0.

3-2. Should Liverpool be panicking after that performance? Their lead at the top is now only 11 points with seven games left to go. They do look a little bit fatigued. I mean, they do and they looked a bit flat against Everton in the Merseyside derby. There's no panic. I actually think the interesting part of this...

said at the weekend, Arsenal, the changes Arsenal made, you know, it would have just been nice for them to exert a bit of pressure on Liverpool and they missed a trick. You know, they've absolutely missed a trick. I thought it was a shocking penalty award.

against Arsenal at the weekend an absolute shocking award I don't know why on I thought it was a clear and obvious error Jack Harrison dived and Arsenal may count themselves unlucky with that but

Mikel Arteta waved the old white flag, didn't he, before the game? He must well have come out, plonked a white flag in the technical area and said, we're focusing on the Champions League. That's his right to do that. I get that. But the fact that they drew, they've not put Liverpool under any pressure. And of course, they play Liverpool as well. May the 10th. Opportunity missed from Arsenal. Yeah.

Yeah, Arsenal, of course, play Real Madrid at home in the Champions League first leg quarterfinal on Tuesday evening. I'll be at that game. That's what Chris is referring to. You're right, no Odegaard, no Saka. I mean, I said to you in the team that played at Everton on Saturday, I said to you a while ago that,

Arsenal have missed that chance to see how Liverpool would react under real pressure. Liverpool are nervous as it is with this big lead and we'll never find out, well, we don't think we're going to find out how they would have reacted if it was three points, four points, even six points, even eight points. And that's what you're alluding to. And I do see that. A couple of questions from the game. I watched it on Saturday lunchtime.

So no Odegaard. He's the Arsenal captain. He didn't play. No Odegaard. Captain for the day was Jorginho, which made me wonder what Declan Rice needs to do to get the armband at Arsenal. I mentioned this to our resident Arsenal expert, Henry, our producer, who assures me in good faith that the Arsenal leadership...

um, group is, uh, Odegaard, Giorgino, Gabrielle and Saka. Why on earth is Declan Rice not higher up that list? Is that as puzzling to you as it is to me? I think so. Um,

Yeah. I mean, people view captaincy in different ways these days. Well, do you view it? I think it's important. I think more importantly, he leads by example on the pitch. He seems very vocal. I'd be their best player. Yeah. And I get that. I don't, you know, all these leadership groups. Yeah. I'm not totally sure.

uh, about them. They're just, you know, they're just, maybe it's just a phase footballs going through with, you know, with this, with this sort of thing, but yeah, I, I, I agree with what you're saying. Um, but you don't, you don't, you don't need a title, do you? To be a captain, to be a leader. And that's, that, that would be, that would be my point. I don't, I don't think Declan Rice is going to be, you know, too upset about it, but,

I am surprised that he's not in the group, just like you are. I wonder what it is that's holding him back. And I'd also like to wonder what Thomas Tuchel, the England manager, would make of it, given that he's brought Jordan Henderson back into the England fold, citing a lack of leadership within the group. And, you know, you've got a player like Declan Rice, who to me looks absolutely primed to take that step.

in his career to be a real figurehead. And isn't even on the list. Why don't you ask Mikel Arteta? Well, I think I will. I think I will at some point because I wasn't aware of it. I've obviously knew that Odegaard was a captain and I've presumed that, I would, I've always presumed that Rice was next cab off the rank for the armband. And I'm obviously wrong. I think he should write a letter to...

Mikel Arteta asking. Email. Why am I not part of the email? Send him a WhatsApp. Let it be more personable. Send him a, or kind of create his own meme on Instagram. That's what you do these days, isn't it? Get his social media team on it. That's what you do. Subliminal messaging and all the rest of it. There are people out there all across the country pushing boundaries to grow the game of golf. Like champion speed golfer, Lauren Cup, who plays faster than anyone else.

and Will Lowry, whose work in the golf community inspires more kids to get into the game. As a champion partner of the Masters, Bank of America supports everyone determined to find out what's possible in golf and in life. What would you like the power to do? Bank of America. Bank of America N.A. Member FDIC. Copyright 2025. Bank of America Corporation. All rights reserved.

Um, I think I just won my taxes. Yeah? I just switched to H&R Block in about one minute. All I had to do was drag and drop last year's return into H&R Block, and bam, my information is automatically there. So I don't have to go digging around for all my old papers to switch? Nope. Sounds like we just leveled up our tax game. Switching to H&R Block is easy. Just drag and drop your last return. It's better with Block. The other question that arose from that game, um,

on Saturday lunchtime was around Jordan Pickford. Jordan Pickford, Everton goalkeeper, made an absolutely worldly save from Leandro Trossard. Turns out Trossard was offside, but it was still, what a save. I don't know if you saw it. Absolutely magnificent one-handed save. He's had another brilliant season, Pickford, England goalkeeper. Now, without wishing to upset Everton supporters,

again, but I think I'm going to. I was sitting there watching it thinking, why is Pickford not playing for one of our elite football clubs? Now,

Asterix time. Everton are a big football club. They're a big football club. They are a big football club. They're an important football club, but they've not been playing at the top end of the English game for quite a while. Just cut to the chase because you're now scared about naming these elite clubs for fear of missing one out, aren't you? I am a bit scared. I'm a bit scared of Everton fans these days. Let me ask this question. Is Jordan Pickford better than Sanchez at Chelsea? Yes. Is he better than Vicario at Tottenham?

It's close. Yes. Is he better than... Better with his... Yeah. Is he better than Vicario? But he can catch. Is he better than Anano at United? His arms aren't as long. Is he better than Anano at United? Yes, I think so. So what's the issue? I don't get it. Manchester City want a goalkeeper this summer, right? They want a goalkeeper this summer. But they won't be trying to buy Jordan Pickford. Why not?

What, too old? Too English? How do you know that? I'd be surprised. What do you mean, too English? Oh, come on. What's the reason then? What's the reason? Manchester City have English players. What's the reason then? Why are people not knocking on Everton's door every summer to buy Jordan Pippen? I see your point. I think he's been an outstanding goalkeeper for England. I don't think he's ever let them down, really. We know there's a debate about him over the years, about his temperament.

But he's proven over the years he's a brilliant goalkeeper. I think the Chelsea thing is really interesting. You could have a debate. I think he's better than Edison. I think Edison's another one of those Manchester City players whose form has dipped. So, yeah, I think he's matured over the years, Jordan Pickford, and he's an outstanding goalkeeper. So I'm totally with you on that. We've both talked about his temperament before, haven't we?

We've both talked about his temperament before. We think he has improved from that point of view. And again, whenever people like you and I have conversations about who's the best goalkeeper in the Premier League or whenever other people on other podcasts and TV shows and in print, et cetera, and across football websites talk about the Premier League's best goalkeepers, he's never in that conversation either. And I've suddenly woken up to that fact. Maybe I'm two or three years too late, but I've woken up to it and it does make me...

You wonder. Anyway, let us know what you think about that. He's got little arms. Nothing wrong with that. Or indeed little legs. And let us know what you think of that. We've had a couple of comments on Spotify over the week, not just about my pronunciations. Dom King and I were speaking last week about Jose Mourinho and whether he's relevant as a coach anymore. Coutinho says, you were strong on Mourinho.

And I enjoyed the episode, but I do wonder if West Ham fans would prefer his fireworks to potter ball brackets, yawn, close brackets. Stu, meanwhile, and I hope poor old Dom King doesn't take offence at this. Stu says, this podcast without Sutton is like Morecambe without Wise or Ant without Debt.

Chris, Southampton are down with seven games to go. No surprise there. Ten points, one shy of the 11 points that Derby went down with, I think, in 2008. That's the Premier League record that nobody wants to have. We know how lamentable the efforts of the bottom three have been. Of the last 18 games played by Southampton and Derby,

Ipswich and I don't know why I'm forgetting the other ones Southampton Ipswich and Leicester 16 have been lost out of those 18 no fight put up whatsoever even Ewick the Southampton coach blames Southampton's problems on the crew Ewick

Blames Southampton's problem on recruitment. Recruitment is everything, he says. There's been a different physicality between us and other teams. Our goal now is to avoid becoming the worst team in Premier League history. Has it been down to recruitment, Chris? Has it been down to the way they've played? Has it been down to anything else other than inadequacy right across the pitch?

I mean, that's the lowest of the lowest of lowest bars, isn't it? What have you got to play for for the rest of the season to beat the worst ever team, Derby County, in Premier League history? It's worrying times at Southampton and they do need to have a plan and an identity. It doesn't look like even Juric is going to be the guy to take them forward. Southampton got beaten 3-1 at Spurs, which condemned them to relegation.

win for Ange Prosteklogu's Tottenham. Prosteklogu under pressure, as we know, been saying some slightly worrying things recently about his own future. Sounds like he might be resigned to what's coming in the summer. But he's talking a little bit more widely also in the last couple of days about something that he spots in modern society that he doesn't like. Have a little listen to this. If somebody says to you, right, Tom, that was a good article last night, but I don't like that.

point you made. You go, okay mate, you might just walk off. If somebody says, hey Tom, I didn't like that article, what do you think they're trying to achieve? No, hold on a second, no, no, reciprocal question, let me answer it. What I think they're trying to achieve, they're not really interested in an answer to a question, they just want a reaction. They want their five minutes of fame because that's what this gives them and that's what I was talking about, right? For young people, this is more dangerous than any other weapon in the world as far as I'm concerned.

And so if I don't pull up, especially young kids, who put up a phone in my face, then what's stopping them from doing that in the schoolyard? What's stopping them doing that in general life and bullying people? Because it's a bullying. But if somebody's holding up a phone, I will react to it because I won't accept it. And I think it was a couple of, it might have been a form game you're talking about where that happened. There was two young boys that were doing it. And I asked them, I don't know if it's shown in the clip, but I asked them, where's your dad? I wanted to talk to their dad. Well, where's your mum? And they got slightly sheepish and embarrassed.

because it's not criticism I'm reacting to. It's them holding up a phone. Why are you holding up a phone? What are you trying to do? So you can put it on social media and say, look, I've got Ange Postacoglu to react. Ange has had enough of it. He's classed with a few supporters recently after games and they've been trying to film his reaction. That's why he's been asked about it.

Chris, it must happen to you. You're a big name, particularly when you go to Glasgow, back to doing your work in Scotland. You must get a bit disrespectful when I go to Norwich. You must get a bit of that. You must get a little bit of that as well. People shoving iPhones in your faces, photographs, filming, etc. Any thoughts on what Pastor Cloggo said?

Well, you know, watching the news this morning on the television, seeing NHS staff being filmed by people. I just, I mean, the whole social media thing, I mean, we could talk about this for days, about how I feel about social media. I mean, you know, my daughter's 13 this season. We've...

We've debated long and hard, myself and my wife, about letting her have a phone. And I think she must be one of the only girls in her year at school who doesn't have a phone because of the perils of social media. I mean, I don't know whether this is right or wrong. So when we get her a phone, we can...

You can limit some of the apps which they have and some of the social media platforms. But I might be wrong, totally wrong with this. But my sons were saying to me who have been on social media that Snapchat, you know, I mean, I'm not on Snapchat. They have beheadings on Snapchat. They just randomly come up. I mean, you know, you can take this anywhere. It's not a football topic, but...

It is all related and what have you. And Ange Postakoglu is talking from his situation. And I think he's right to confront people with it because we know what they're trying to do. They're trying to get their five minutes of fame or say that they riled a particular high-profile person. But this isn't just about...

you know, high profile people. It's about NHS staff, but also, you know, the sort of impact that social media is having on, you know,

especially well or you know everybody but especially the younger generation and and bullying on instagram and and uh and what have you i mean i could i could literally talk for hours on this and and my dislikes about where um where sort of everything is heading especially for the younger generations i i actually think it's uh

it sort of ruins young people's lives. You think when we were younger, all we had is not all we had in a bad way. It was great. You'd read a book, you'd go and play sport, you know, you'd be outside. I mean, you walk down a, you walk in a city centre now and the amount of people you nearly bump into who are on the holding, holding a phone, looking at their device. It's, it's,

It's extraordinary. I mean, you go into restaurants and you see kids sat there, four-year-olds, looking at a frigging iPad.

You know, I mean, it's endless and it's just getting worse and getting worse and getting worse. And sort of as a parent, you know, you're a parent and little Ethan in there today, you know, we all know where it's heading. And I think it has a massive detrimental effect. And Poster Coglu touched on a little part of that. But what is the world coming to when, you know, you're trying to get people involved?

you know, film a manager so they have their little five minutes of fame or get a high profile figure into trouble just because, you know, Poster Coglu's a passionate guy. You know, you had the moment against Chelsea where he cupped his hand to his ear, a sort of, you know, a reaction. And he's denied all that, hasn't he? That it wasn't a reaction to the Spurs fans. I think it was.

But I'd forgive him for that because he cares, doesn't he? You know, I think you'd be the same. I'd be the same. You know, he struggled this season. He had a good season last season. This season, this has struggled. That's a reaction just to sort of, you know, get it up you. And I actually don't mind that. You know, I don't mind that. He's passionate. He wants to do well. He's a proud guy. And I think that it's good to see somebody like him, high-profile figures, come out and talk about this.

And not back down with stuff like this. Of course, Tottenham have had a difficult season, but no, I actually quite liked what he did there. You write what you say. You write what you say. Much of what you say, I agree with. But you're also right when you say that

people holding phones up in the faces of managers and players, it is a reaction they're looking for. You're absolutely right. They're looking for that reaction, which then they can post on social media, which will then get them likes and attention and engagement, et cetera. You could also argue that a manager like Postacoglu

has just got to accept it and stop reacting to it. That's the other side. In terms of the wider points that you make, Chris, I wouldn't disagree with at all. Of course, mobile phones are an absolute curse. They are an absolute curse in so many ways for all of us. And we've all fallen down into that trap to, you know, we're all stuck in the mud of,

when it comes to mobile phone use to a varying various degree. I am, I'm sure that you are, and you're right when it comes to we have to think about the effect that it's having on younger generations. But in terms of the very narrow focus of football that we're talking about here, I think Anz Postacoglu does have to learn not to react.

Because reacting gets you nowhere. First of all, it gives them what they want, the person holding the phone, and it takes your focus away from the job in hand. Every other football manager gets it. Every other player gets it. I'm afraid it's not right. It's not great, but you've got to deal with it. You have got to deal with it. And reacting to supporters at the end of games isn't going to help him. It's not going to help him. And I think he's got to find a way not to do it. Just the reality of it, mate.

Yeah, I do agree that – I do it. You turn a blind eye to people when they're rude or shaming stuff. That's my tactic. But I also do think, Ian, it's sort of refreshing. The Poster Coglu clip, he was saying –

you know, he wanted to speak to the dad. He wanted to speak to the mum of the kids who did it. And do you know what? It's good that somebody is talking about it and sort of, you know, I think, and confronting the issue because now we are talking about it. It is, you know, it is a thing and it, you know, it brings into light the sort of

the wider dangers of social media. And it's, you know, it's a strange place. Yeah, indeed. It's an interesting subject. It's a very depressing subject. But Angus Poster-Clogg, he's never afraid of wading into topics, broader topics, deeper topics, topics away from football. If indeed he does go, does leave Tottenham this summer, I think we will.

we'll miss him for sure. Right, my friend, let's lighten the mood a little bit. Let's do our moments of the weekend. And I am going to go first. Uh, I love Bruno Fernandes and his word, his kind words about Kevin De Bruyne after the Manchester Derby. I also, by the way, um, I absolutely hear it when people like Gary Neville and, uh,

and Roy Keane suggests that players are too friendly with each other these days. We can talk about that, but I have to say the respect and love that was shown from United players towards Kevin De Bruyne on the field after yesterday's derby was really, really lovely to see. And I haven't got a problem with that. You play your game, you do what you do. Some games you kick lumps out of each other. Some games you don't. At the end, I don't think there's anything wrong with a handshake

any smile. I really don't. And it was quite obvious that United players were deliberately going up to De Bruyne after yesterday's game to say, you know, congratulations on your career, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I really liked that. But what I liked more from Bruno was something I saw before the game was

when the mascots came out with the players from the tunnel at the start of the game, the mascot who was with Bruno was seven-year-old Bobby Moore from Belfast, a little kid who was sitting in a little electric wheelchair. The first mascot ever to grace the field at Old Trafford in a wheelchair, apparently,

Bobby's celebration when Bruno scored a penalty in the derby at the Etihad earlier in the season was spotted on social media by Manchester United and by Bruno. They invited him over. He spent the day at the training ground on Friday, met the players and then was guest of honour for the game yesterday. And I have to say that absolutely warmed my heart.

Very nice. Lovely story. So my moment, it's not the weekend, it's the previous one, but have you heard of Petko Ganchev? Nope. I mean, you're a... Well, this did make me laugh. Where is this going? I think you'll quite like this. So a Bulgarian team, Arda Kazali, this was a couple of weeks ago, but I saw this story. They...

They held a minute silence for poor old Petko and Petko.

Posted on social media. He posted on social media about the news of his death. That was a little bit premature. That's right. That's absolutely right. A minute silence for a bloke who wasn't dead. Yeah, I did see it. I did. That really did. That did really tickle me. And they did honour him eventually.

But the poor guy, one of the club greats, Avado Kazali. So great that he's even come back from the dead. He's so great.

I shouldn't laugh. We shouldn't laugh. No, we should laugh. It's hilarious. Of course we should laugh. Talk about going the extra yard for your club. You even do an extra 10 minutes once they've said goodbye to you. Lovely story. He said that hearing the news, he consoled himself. He poured himself a small brandy to console himself. Yeah.

I wonder if when he does die, they won't bother. When he does die, when he does die, they'll think, oh, we've done this already, we can't do it again. We'll just roll out the footage of the last time that we did it.

There we go. Well, we got a bit serious towards the end of that podcast talking about mobile phones. It says, I'm glad we've ended it with a smile. I hope everybody's enjoyed it. Champions League week this week, of course, I'll be in, I've got a busy week. I'll be at the Emirates for Arsenal on Tuesday night and then I'll be in Paris for Aston Villa at PSG on Wednesday. Chris, are you getting busy? What are you up to?

I've got quite a quiet week this week. I can't wait for the Champions League, actually. Really looking forward to the English teams. Villa are on form, aren't they? And Arsenal, Real Madrid.

and a big night for Rangers as well in the Europa League we might talk about that next week who knows Celtic getting closer to the Scottish Premiership title despite losing at the weekend right thanks for being with us everybody you know where to find us leave us some reviews and comments hit that follow button please and we'll see you on Thursday I'm Ian Ladyman the chap who wants to flog Phil Foden all the way to America and back this summer is Chris Sutton this has been it's all kicking off

Hello, it's Ian here from It's All Kicking Off. I hope you're enjoying listening to the show. We really enjoy making it and would love to make it even better for you. So we're running a short survey to find out more about you, our listeners, so that we can continue to bring you episodes that will make you complain in the comments about our questionable opinions. It only takes two minutes and would be so valuable to Chris and I. The link is in the show notes. Thanks and back to the episode.