Why Pep Might Not End the Season as Manchester City Manager
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Hello and welcome to It's All Kicking Off. Chris Sutton is here in his Celtic pyjamas. Brendan Rodgers' team have won another cup and we might just mention a bit of that later on. Man City have lost another game meanwhile, this time to Man United and Pep Guardiola told me in yesterday's press conference that he feels he's no longer good enough.

One win in 11 for Guardiola now and his gradual disintegration goes on. The Premier League has also lost another two managers. Gary O'Neill at Wolves and Russell Martin at Southampton have lost their grip on the cliff face. And what about Marcus Rashford? He may well have lost his hold on his Manchester United future at last. Quote of the season here, I think, from his manager, Ruben Ameren.

AF United won the derby without Rashford and indeed without Alejandro Garnaccio when people in the club are losing their jobs said Ameren we have to push our standards incredibly high Chris welcome another Christmas jumper from you I can see none from you

Not one. I did have mine on at the Light Cinema in Stockport on Saturday morning when we went to see the Polar Express. You had to wear your pyjamas at the cinema that I went to on Saturday morning. Is that a Northern thing? I mean, I've not...

Never heard of that before? A friend of mine, when I told him I was going to cinema in pyjamas to watch this film, Polo Express, great film, by the way, Tom Hanks, magnificent, old film. And when I told a friend of mine we had to go in our pyjamas, he said to me, he

He said, what happens if you see someone who hasn't seen you for a long time? I said, what do you mean? He said, well, he's got to go home. He said, I've just bumped into him later in the centre of Stockport on a Saturday morning. He was wearing his pyjamas. What went wrong? Where did you park? Sorry?

Where do I park? Well, where do you park? And then you get out of the car in your pyjamas. It's quite a weird thing, isn't it? Yeah, I bottled it a bit. I mean, if you parked a mile away and you had to wander through town as a family. I had my big coat on. You could really only see me from knees down. You can imagine a big coat for me does come quite a long way down towards the ground. I'm almost tripping over it. So, you know. Yeah.

Well, you do things differently in Stockholm. Yeah, we do things differently in Manchester, as Tony Wilson once said. Right, managers under pressure. Chris, managers getting sacked. Guardiola hanging on by his fingernails, it seems. Let's get to the two that went. Gary O'Neill at Wolves, Russell Martin at Southampton. One went with dignity and one went blaming his players. Yeah, and I think that I can understand...

Why both managers were sacks. I mean, just start with Southampton when you're 5-0 down at home to Tottenham and the manager had disappeared. Russell Martin had disappeared down the tunnel at 4-0, hadn't he? Sorry.

So he missed the fifth goal. You can imagine how that halftime team could have gone, blimey lads, we're four down. I hope somebody told Russell that they were five down at halftime. But yeah, that was unfortunate. I've got greater sympathy for Russell Martin than I do for Gary O'Neill, just based on him getting Southampton promoted. I think that they have...

the weakest squad in the Premier League. Wolves have been a stable Premier League side now for, what, six seasons? And I think that Gary Neal has massively underachieved. And I get all the, you know, they sold Kilman, didn't replace him, sold Neto, didn't replace him. And I understand all that, but he's been a massive underachiever.

Gary O'Neill has chucked his players under the bus and no great surprise. You cannot leak 40 goals as they have done this season. Two and a half goals a game and expect to stay in the Premier League. So he is massively underachieved. Yeah, he felt as though... I think you always know with a manager when...

When their time is up, sometimes, well, often, by the things that players do on the field, but also the things that the managers themselves say in front of the TV cameras and written media, et cetera. And Gary had started to slip into that, you know, it's not me, it's them frame of mind in the last couple of weeks. He said after Saturday's defeat to Ipswich,

beaten in the last minute by a set-piece goal. I would take responsibility for a set-piece if a player was standing in the right place, said Gary. He then talked about the first goal. It was unacceptable in the Premier League. I've seen Liam Dillard bash up defenders like that at under-18s when he was two foot taller than them. Ipswich won't score that goal against any other team. Yeah, Wrighton was on the wall.

by that stage, I think for Gary and maybe have been for a couple of weeks. The Russell Martin thing, we called it suicide football. I called it suicide football at the start of the season. I didn't see any way that Southampton could continue to play the way they played under Martin and survive. They are nine points from safety. They have fewer points after 16 games, five, than record setting Derby had previously.

in 2007, 2008. I do wonder if the Southampton board have left it too long. Whoever comes in now is going to face an almost impossible job to get Southampton clear. I understand what you're saying, but...

I'll go back to what I said a couple of moments ago. I do feel sorry for Southampton in terms of I think that they had the weakest squad going into this Premier League campaign. Russell Martin is a stickler, was a stickler. Vincent Kompany was a stickler to the way that his Burnley team played. Look what's happened.

but his inability to adapt probably did cost him. But it's what's next for Southampton. I do think that I noticed in the statement that Southampton wrote that they talked about there being a significant gap between the Championship and the Premier League. So if they feel that way, surely there should be a longer-term plan. It cannot just be short-termism in terms of...

Because, you know, there was a strong possibility, a massive possibility that Southampton would go straight back down again. So, you know, we have seen teams in the past benefit from having a longer term approach and then you come back, then hopefully the team goes up, comes down, comes back stronger.

I know what you're saying. And I think there was always that possibility at Burnley had Vincent Kuntmey not jumped ship to Bayern Munich, understandably so, but had he not done so, that they would have kept Vincent and given him the opportunity to bring them back up. But I think Southampton have been so poor

so bad losing losing losing the game they won against Everton they didn't really deserve they didn't they were quite fortunate to win there comes a point in football where if you're just getting your trousers pulled down every single week you can't it can't continue it gets to the point where it's impossible to let that continue and I think Southampton had reached that point there's absolutely no way they could just have let this continue until May you just can't you just can't it was so bad they were so they were so far adrift from everybody else and

I was disappointed to see the way the Southampton fans treated Martin as he was getting done 5-0 by Tottenham. A banner, Russell Martin, get out of our club. Don't like that for a bloke who got them promoted. At one point, I think the fans were giving it, Russell, Russell, give us a wave. He gave them a wave and they booed him. I mean, I don't... That's panto.

That is Panto, and it might be that season, but there's no place for that. That really is kicking a bloke when he's down. And maybe... Well, that was the fans who were actually still there because most of them had left. Yeah, yeah.

Let us know what you think. Anyway, you can find us on the socials. You know how to do that. I'm the one with the stupid name and Chris is the one with the famous name. No, it's not stupid. Unusual, let's say. What do you think about that? Should we be proactively promoting English managers in the Premier League or should it just be a case of give the job

to the best person. Let us know what you think. We've got an email address, as we know, iako.dailymail.co. Popular email address, isn't it? Well, that email address is becoming popular, Chris. I'll have you know. We've had a nice message on it here from Michelle Mather, who says, lying on the beach in Dubai, listening to your fabulous podcast,

I normally live in Alderley Edge, just a few miles away from Ian. I'm a little bit bored on the beach. I thought I would email and say how much I enjoy listening to the two of you. The banter between you is great. Merry Christmas. Well, Merry Christmas to you as well, Michelle. Yes.

Merry Christmas, Michelle. If she's from all the edges, there's a chance that she might be a Manchester United or a Manchester City fan. You never know. I was at the Etihad on Sunday for possibly one of the worst Manchester derbies I have

ever seen. Man United had had one shot on target before that penalty that drew them level but they won it and fair play to their manager Ruben Amarin for leaving out Marcus Rashford and Alejandro Garnaccio. I'm going to go back to that quote Chris that I mentioned at the top of the show when we asked Amarin about his decision to leave the two players out after the game this is what he said.

When people in the club are losing their jobs, we have to push our standards incredibly high. It's not a disciplinary thing. Next week is a new week, a

a new life, but it's how you dress, how you eat and how you interact with your teammates. He said a lot more, but that was the nub of it. His message to Rashford and Garnaccio could not be more clear. No, and I really admire him for his approach because, Ian, he could have taken the easy option and put Garnaccio and Rashford on the bench. Nobody would have batted an eyelid. You know, he...

possibly wouldn't have thrown them on. But he made this decision based, it seems to be on the attitude and lack of performance in training. And it's a message to everybody. And it's certainly a message to Garnaccio and Rashford. And of course, the question will be, are they going to

Are they going to work hard enough and show the correct attitude to try and work their way back into the team? Because there's no doubt that both players are extremely talented. And I suppose with Rashford, I mean, you know, we had the debate last week, you know, is there which Manchester United player would you sell? You said Marcus Rashford. I think a lot of people, you know, would agree with that. But I always think with Rashford, everybody's saying, well, you know, he maybe needs to move elsewhere, right?

But if you're a top, top club and you want to compete for the big trophies, why would you want to bring somebody into the club who is perceived, I think, in many quarters now as a bad egg and has attitude issues? So, you know, if you're a, you know, as I say, a top club, why would they want to buy him anyway and bring somebody in who could disrupt the dressing room? Huge question.

from Amarim, or so it seemed from the outside. And he would have known the United manager. He makes that call and they lose, which they were three minutes away from doing, by the way, and they lose. And they lose Gareth.

despite being in the game in terms of possession and territory, but looking quite blunt up front, only one shot on a target ahead of Ahmad, which might have been going wide anyway before Edison tipped it round. He would have had fingers pointed at him saying, how do you go into a derby without two of your strike players? Why wouldn't you leave them on? Why wouldn't you even have them on the bench? So he knows what he's doing when he makes that call, right? But,

He clearly felt that it was for the long term, it was worth doing. And it made me think of something that Ryan Giggs said to me two, three years ago when I interviewed him. And he was talking to me about how when he was a player, two of the players who Alex Ferguson used to dig out more than most in that United dressing room were himself and David Beckham.

And Gig said to me that at the time, it couldn't work out why he was doing it. But over time, he realised exactly why it was. And it was to send a message. And that message was so that everyone else in that dressing room knew that if myself...

and David Beckham were not safe from the manager's ire or criticism, then no one else in that dressing room would be safe from it. And you think there's a little bit of that at play here. It seems different though, Ian, doesn't it? It's different. This seems to be an attitude thing. No, it is different. All I'm saying is it is different.

in that Rashford, over time, has proved himself to be increasingly difficult to manage. Garnaccio had issues last season. A couple of Instagram posts he made about Eric Ten Haag, we remember. So there is something at play, but my point here is that Amir in not being afraid to take on the big names, the big players, does, at the same stage, send a message to all of the others. That's the point that I'm making. Yeah, but you can't...

And if he was going to take such a measure, I think it's better to do it early as he has done. And, you know, what does he want? He wants a harmonious dressing room. And for years there have been stories, recent times, coming out of the Manchester United dressing room that it's not a happy place. Players too big for the boots and it seems like Garnaccio and Rashford, he's singled them out. It's a, you know, it's a...

it's a, it's a warning, which everybody now knows about, but their problems before, before he's come in, he wants to nip it in the bud and deal with it. And he sort of said, well, it's a clean slate for everybody. Uh,

At this moment in time, Garnaccio and Rashford aren't at the level in terms of their attitude and application. If they get to the level, he'll bring them back into the fold. But it's a shot across the bows from Amram. And I quite like it. It's ruthless. And as I say, he's a smiling assassin, but I think he's done it absolutely brilliantly. It feels like the end of days for Rashford, I have to say. He had a couple of...

close shaves with Eric Ten Hag in terms of discipline etc and I think it was generally accepted that this change of manager would offer Rashford perhaps his final chance to get himself back to where we all feel he should probably be which is front and central of an improving United team feels to me like he's blown it already he was you know Amrim chose him for his first game at Ipswich scored in the

in the second minute. Great start. And here we are, three weeks on, and he's not in the team. And that's a pretty rapid descent, even by Rashford's standards. It feels to me as though it is done for Rashford at Manchester United now. I don't think...

He's any good for them. I don't think they are any good for him. And he has to find a way to start somewhere else. I don't know if we can do it, by the way. I wouldn't be surprised if he disappears, if he makes a sideways move or a slightly downward move. Do you think he could be another Dele Alli? In terms of the...

For different reasons, let's, you know, for different reasons, but if you mean another deli alley in terms of...

I don't think he'll disappear off the face of the earth, which Dele, for lots of reasons that we know about, kind of has done. But I don't think we'll see him back at this level. I really don't. I don't think we'll see him back at this level. I don't think we'll see him in the England team again because something seems to be that little 1% that you know better than I do, that you need to have in your brain, however talented you are, to really stay at the level. I think Marcus has lost it.

I think he's lost it somewhere and I don't know if he's going to find it again. But if you're Marcus Rashford, what are you thinking? He's getting up this morning. What is he actually thinking? As I say, the very public nature of...

of him being dropped and Garnaccio being dropped. The only choice he has is to actually knuckle down, work hard and apply himself properly. He doesn't have any other choice. As I said, who is going to want to take him?

if they think he's a disruptor. So he does have a way back. I don't agree with you when you say he doesn't have a way back at Manchester United. He absolutely does. The ball is in his court. Is he a talented footballer, Ian? Yes. Is he a game changer on his day? So if you're him, what do you do? The ball is... And you're doubting, and I get why you're doubting, but you are doubting

his application and whether he has the sort of real gumption and the guts and the attitude to come back, aren't you? The ball is in his court, but I don't think he has the capacity, the will, the wherewithal

to hit it back over the net, to continue that kind of metaphor in a rather clumsy way. You asked me there, what do I think he's thinking when he wakes up this morning? Well, obviously I don't know. But what I suspect, given some of the things he's said in the past, he suggests in the past he thinks that he's an easy target for criticism and he's criticised in a way that other players aren't. I suspect that when Marcus woke up on this Monday morning, he was probably blaming somebody else.

He was probably blaming somebody else. That is what I would suspect. He probably thinks it's somebody else's fault. And until the day, and I might be wrong, but you asked me my opinion, that's my opinion. And until he looks in the mirror one morning and thinks, you know what, Marcus,

You're 27. You might have five, six years left at the top level, if you're lucky. And it's up to you, mate, which direction you take. And I'm going to make sure I take the right path. Until he does that, if he's not done it already, then I see this only plays out one way. And in a way, mate, I worry more about a player like Garnaccio. Rashford's taken the headlines on this story. Of course he has. Marcus Rashford, one of the most famous players.

players in the country, one of the most famous players in Europe. Garnaccio's at a level beneath that in terms of his standing and his profile, but he's also a lot younger. He's got a lot of years ahead of him, and he is a player who should be part of the future of Manchester United, the new Manchester United. On ability, if I was picking a United team, he's in it and Rashford isn't, right? For me, okay? Garnaccio's in that United team on ability, right?

So if I was Ruben Amirum, I'd be probably worrying more about that because he's a player who he should be able to develop and improve and get the best out of and be part of this group going forward. But he's on the wrong side of the path now in terms of his attitude by the sounds of it. That is a worry for me.

Well, yeah, but both, you know, extremely similar in that they are both talented players. Garnaccio being younger, but I do think, you know, there are rules within, you know, every football club and, you know, every player when he goes in to train every day knows that they have to apply themselves, knows that they have to work hard. These are, you know, very basic things. So,

you know, it's a shot across the bows for both players, but there is a way back. Amarim has said that, but, you know, if he's...

When a manager first walks into a door at a football club, that's when he is at his most powerful. So to make a call as he has done really early with this, I think that that is the right move. I think it is the smart move. I mean, these are two players. Let's not forget they had issues under Ten Hag. But because I think over...

longer period of time and the decline in Manchester United's performance. People were maybe questioning Ten Hag and whether that was on him more than Garnaccio and Rashford. But now Amarim has gone in and called them out early. They've seen through Garnaccio and Rashford and it's up to both players simply to respond well.

in the right way. Rashford is 27 years old and if he's a bit jaded after a decade of, of,

of doing what he's done at Manchester United, then he won't be the first. What concerns me about Garnaccio is he's 20 years old. He's 20 years old, mate. He's far too young for a manager to be questioning his attitude and the way he dresses and the way he eats and the way he interacts with players on the training field. I mean, if you're doing that at 20... He's not at his dress sense, question, by the way. Yes, he has.

Is he? Ruben Amrin. It's how you dress, how you eat, how you interact with your teammates. And he was pulled up on this, Amrin, in the press conference after the game. He said, does it really matter what players wear? And the gist of what he said was... Hang on a minute. Hang on a minute. I'm not having this. Can I just say this? We're now discussing...

Garnaccio's dress sense. This is a guy, you, who went to the cinema on Stockport in a pair of pyjamas. And we're now digging Garnaccio. I was off duty. The day I turn up to a Premier League football match wearing my pyjamas is the day to call...

Firstly, call my wife and secondly, call the authorities. That is what I would possibly say. But no, I think Amirin's point was it's part of the bigger picture. And I think Amirin, now you've made the pyjama reference there. I don't think it matters if...

Marcus Rashford, Alejandro Ganachia turns up for training in his pyjamas. I don't think it matters if he goes on to a training pitch in his pyjamas as long as all the other stuff is right. As long as all the other stuff is right. And I think Amirim's point is that it's part of the whole when he looks at these players.

but what they wear might be part of the whole picture in terms of what they do. Going back to the old days, Fergie with Eric Cantona. Fergie wrote a new set of rules for Eric Cantona, okay? He turned up for a Man United function that I think was a three-line whip to be black tie, and he turned up in a cravat with his shirt open. And I think Fergie said, it's okay, it's Eric, he can do what he wants because he gave him something special on the pitch.

Rashford and Garnaccio aren't giving Amarim anything on the football field. So therefore, all the other stuff has to be absolutely on the button as far as I am concerned. Anyway, there we go. Marcus Rashford, Alejandro Garnaccio. What will happen with those two? Let us know. Like I said earlier, find us on the socials. Hit us up on the email address.

United did win the game, by the way, 2-1. What a turnaround it was at the end. Penalty from Bruno Fernandes and a dramatic last-minute winner from the sensationally talented young forward, Ahmad Diallo. Pep Guardiola. Chris, let's do it quickly because we've done a lot of Pep on the podcast recently.

Looks like an increasingly broken man to me. Just signed a two-year contract, a new two-year contract at Manchester City. Got to ask you a quick question. Do you think you'll see that contract out? Yeah, I do. Everything which he's said, I do think he'll see it out. I think he's a fighter and...

And, you know, he doesn't sound like a guy who's going to chuck it in. I think that, you know, even if... He looks like one. Yeah, but maybe that's because he's shell-shocked. He would never have experienced anything like this in his managerial career. What, losing eight out of the last 11 games? I just, the longer this goes on, I just wonder at Manchester City whether they have underestimated...

the rest of the Premier League. They have overestimated maybe how talented they think their squad was because I'm looking at Gundogan, I'm looking at De Bruyne, I'm looking at Silva, I'm looking at Kyle Walker and thinking, you know, all 30 plus and...

And the positions these players play in, they need to be at the level in terms of being fit enough, dynamic enough. And I think that these are players who have just, you know, physically are just not at their peak anymore. And I think that that's an issue. You can go back to the summer and look at selling Alvarez and not replacing him. And I think that...

Pep talks about being tired himself. I wonder whether that's rubbing off on the players. Something is amiss. I mean, normally we've been used to Manchester City dominating games, pummeling teams for the last however many seasons, this season.

something is missing badly. And it's not just Rodri. It can't just be Rodri, albeit he is a big miss. But this is when you need your coach. This is when you need your coach. This is when you need your leader to lead. And Pep Guardiola... Well, he's sort of is, isn't he? Pep Guardiola, to me at the moment, looks like he's drowning. I asked him in his press conference after the game at the Etihad whether he still thought he had the energy and whether he still thought he had the magic of...

And he his response to me was, well, I never had any magic. It was all due to the players. And yes, I do have the energy. But he then continued in that very pep way of his to talk and talk and talk and go down several different avenues and turn around, turn around and come back and then go down another one and turn around and come back. And eventually got to this quote where he said, I'm not good enough. I don't think he really believes that.

Of course he doesn't believe that, but I think that's a type of scrambled quote that comes from a scrambled mind. And I have to say, I'm going to answer my own question because you haven't shot it back at me. Do I think he'll still be there at the end of this two-year contract extension? If this run of form goes on much longer, I don't think he'll be there at the end of the season. I think he'll walk.

You think he'll walk? If this uniform continues much longer. He will not be sacked. No, Pep's relationship with Manchester City is so symbiotic, is so close that I don't think either party, Guardiola or the club, would allow that to happen. That would be the ultimate undignity for Pep Guardiola and he doesn't deserve that. He could lose every game between now and the end of the season and he wouldn't deserve that, but he wouldn't let that happen

Guardiola's the type of guy who will walk, just like he did at the end of the 2012 season at Barcelona when he went and had a year off in New York to get his head back together. And he'd done only four years at Barca, by the way, before the mental toll of that became too much. This is his ninth season at City. If this continues, I don't think his pride will...

will allow him to oversee this indefinitely. I don't think his pride will allow him to do it. But that's interesting. Yeah, I mean, that is interesting because you can look at that and, you know, you can flip that and look at it the other way and you're talking about you don't think his pride will allow him to do it, but maybe he's so proud that he would want to bounce back and prove a point. I think January is going to be fascinating, really, in terms of,

how mad City go in bringing other players in. They clearly need a bit of help within the squad. There's not one Manchester City player, Ian, I think you can look at this season and think they have been at the level. Every Manchester City player has been below average, severely below average. And that's astonishing, really.

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Right, let's do some questions for Chris. Frankincense asks, if both players are pulling each other's jerseys, can it be a foul? That's really, that's interesting. There was one of those at the Aston Villa Forest game, wasn't there? I don't know who Frankincense's team is.

But, well, it depends on the referee to make that call. But you can pull... One can pull somebody's jersey more vigorously than the other one could possibly pull. So that's... Yeah, that's a very subjective question. But I'm not so sure that that was about the Nottingham Forest Aston Villa game. Oh, you think there might be something in Scotland that you might be referring to? Maybe, yeah. I think so too. Peter Harris...

Are all football fans fickle? Southampton Wolves fans are unrealistic. Question and a statement in one, then. Are all football fans fickle? We're doing a podcast, hopefully, for football fans. Absolutely. It's like, you know, is everybody fickle in life? Of course they're not, Ian.

I think we should be careful before we point fingers. Our opinions on this podcast seem to go backwards and forwards like the dodgy garden gate. I can currently hear banging outside my house. Charlie67 on Spotify. Why did neither of you say that Anthony could be the one to be sold at Manchester United? He is awful.

It's a great, great point. I'd forgotten about it. Me too. And to be fair, who would... I mean, how much would he go for? What did he come in for? Was it 85? 80. 80 million pounds. How much could they... He would devalue more than I devalued in a year at Chelsea. I mean, 80. Seriously, what would they get for Anthony now? 10? 15. 15, yeah, I was going to say 15. And finally, Forza Alba.

How did the ref in the Liverpool game get so far up the pyramid? Forza Alba reckons that Tony Harrington made four big calls, all in the favour of Fulham as they drew two all at Anfield.

I don't think Tony Harrington, that suggests Tony Harrington is a Fulham fan. I don't think that was the case. You know, interestingly, Andy Robertson sending off and there was the one before that with Diop, you know, talk about him getting a straight red. I actually thought he won the ball, Diop, and there's that follow through and these things happen. Sometimes there are collisions and accidents in football. I thought the Robertson red was the right call

I mean, I was at the game. The unusual thing about that, just on the Robertson red, why it was the right call, because he took a touch and Wilson got the other side of him, got to the ball first and Robertson brought him down. So that's denial of an obvious goal-scoring opportunity.

The oddity in all this and why I think football fans are irate is the ball ended up going to Raul Jimenez, who then tried to dink Alisson and he missed. So it was like, well, they'd had the goal scoring opportunity through Jimenez, but then he went back to send Robertson off. So what he should have done really is blown and sent Robertson off and then we wouldn't be having this situation.

debate about the rights and wrongs. I disagree. I think he played the correct advantage. It was a clear advantage. But having done so, there was absolutely no way under law that he could then send Robertson off for the denial of a goal-scoring opportunity when his action was

provided a goal scoring opportunity for a teammate. We saw the goal scoring opportunity. It was there. It wasn't a red card. He was going away from goal and his touch was too heavy. It should have been. Well, that's not, that's not true. We'll agree to disagree. It was ridiculous. That's ridiculous. It shouldn't have been a yellow. Virgil van Dijk said after the game that he thought the refs seemed nervous during the game. Just ask you quickly, Chris, on the field, if,

if players feel that a referee is struggling a little bit or maybe susceptible to pressure, do players try to exploit that if you think you've got a weak referee on your hands? Oh, absolutely. If you, you know, played many times and always used to try and influence the referees. Every player does that. Of course, you're trying to get... But were there some that you thought were more susceptible to it than others? And others have you thought, oh, there's just no point because this bloke's made of iron? Um...

Not really. I try to influence absolutely everybody, Ian. Well, by just chatting away, if I had a foul given against me, I would question the Realms whether that was the correct decision. Just kind of in his ear as you run past? Yeah.

And suggest maybe in a roundabout way he was being biased towards the opposition to actually try and win my particular team a free kick. Very petty. Very, very, very petty. And I understand that. But you do anything to win it. Would you try and ingratiate yourself with the referee by being overly nice to him?

Would you? I mean, seriously, would you? Well, that's one of my life traits, just be overly nice to a bit of charm. Would you try and charm him, asking him about his weekend, asking him about his family, how he was, what he wanted for Christmas? Yeah.

I know. Yeah. I used to like a guy called Keith Cooper, Steve Cooper. So I used to, I used to have some good chats with him, but I never, I never, he used to disappoint me because he used to sort of award mainly the correct decisions. But so, so chatting away to him was, was that because he was Welsh really, but he was Welsh and you were from Norfolk. So you both came, you both came from kind of minority, minority communities. Thought you had something in common. Yeah.

Well, we did. We're both huge fans of Sheep. So we had... Why him though? Why him? Why that love? No, but he's one I remember chatting away to at times. I remember commenting on... He wasn't having a particularly good game once at Ewood Park. I can't remember. It may have been against Spurs. And I commented on...

on his substandard refereeing and he told me to watch the game back and look at my own performance in a roundabout way which is fair enough but I like it I keep telling you to listen back to this podcast and assess your own performance but I'm not sure that you ever do brief mention earlier the Forest versus Aston Villa game I mean look we

We need to talk about Forest again at some point. Goodness me. Champions League places, if we're not careful. The save from Emi Martinez, you have described him previously as the best goalkeeper in the Premier League. So I would imagine that, which I don't agree with, but I presume... And that save proved it. I mean...

Astrid Williams on Matchday said it was the best day he'd ever seen. Not sure about that. Was it better than Gordon Banks? I think he means in the Premier League. In the Premier League. What about David? Was that Premier League David Seaman? FA Cup. David Seaman, Paul Pesce, Salido. Does that count then? Does that count? That was David Seaman, Paul Pesce, Salido, FA Cup semi-final at Old Trafford in about 2010.

I would guess, clawed it back off the line from the Sheffield United striker. Incredible save by safe hands. To be fair, the best goalkeeping display at the weekend was probably from Jordan Pickford at Arsenal. Magnificent hatchet of saves by the Everton goalkeeper. Arsenal's

quickly becoming the most boring team to watch in the Premier League. Only 18 goals now from open play and haven't scored one from open play since November. Our producer, Henry, starting to pull the hairs on his little fuzzy moustache out with frustration. Mikel Arteta talking afterwards as though Everton had some kind of responsibility to come out and play. Ah,

Not that old one. Which I thought was frankly ridiculous. Mikel, you've got the top players in your team, Mikel. It's up to them to find a way. Celtic are the Scottish League Cup champions, Chris, beat Rangers on penalties. What a game. 3-0 at Hampden.

I felt a bit sorry for Philippe Clermont, the Rangers manager. He's had a difficult season. He's had a difficult season and he almost won one against the head there. I felt a bit sorry for him. What do you mean almost? Almost won one. Penalties is, you know, I keep hearing penalties are a lottery. They're not. They're a skill. Good performance though from Rangers, surely.

It's a cup final. They're there to win. And, you know, you could look at Rangers and, you know, big Phil, you know, he talked last week about budgets and the fact that Rangers were playing two teams with greater budgets, Tottenham and then Celtic. But, you know, he failed to mention that

Every other week in the Scottish Premier League, Rangers' budget is considerably bigger than everybody else's. He's been in now a while. He hasn't beaten Brendan Rodgers, I think, in six games. It was huge for him yesterday and...

If we're being balanced, we can say Rangers can take a fair bit out of the way that they played. But still, he needed that trophy and the pressure will be on. In recent times, I'll be fair to him, the performance levels in the last four or five games have sort of been there.

um and yesterday they they pushed celtic but celtic you know fighting on all fronts as uh as well and maybe going through a patch where they're where they where their form has been patchy and they're playing in moments in games but getting over the lines you know was it was a big deal and uh

I mean, possible treble for Celtic and Rangers now are under pressure because you look at the league table and 11 points, the gap they play each other, January the 2nd, which is huge. It's at Ibrox. Philip Clement cannot keep losing to Brendan Rodgers. And if he loses that one, I really think it'll be the end of the road for him.

But also, all Rangers managers lose to Brendan Rodgers. As you told me before we came, before we started the podcast, Brendan's only lost one out of 20 old firm games in his two spells. That's incredible, isn't it? Sorry?

That's incredible, isn't it? Yeah, and he's two spells at Parkhead. He's lost one old firm game out of 20. I personally think it would have been handy if the Scottish game had Rangers won that final. Oh, what a load of rubbish. What an absolute load of guff. Why? If you want a one-team league rather than a two-team... It's a cup competition. If you

Yeah, but you know that that would have given Clement a bit of breathing space. It would have given Rangers a little bit of confidence. It might have given them a bit of belief going forward. And this is just going to kick them back in the opposite direction. And if you think that by the end of the season in Scotland, it's okay for Celtic to have won the league by 20 points, then that's okay with your Celtic hat on.

I don't think it's okay. It's nothing to do with the Celtic, we've congratulated Manchester City for however many years, you know, you don't bat an eyelid with that because it's Celtic now who are now the most successful club in terms of trophies, 119 just ahead of Rangers. It's completely different. But you've got to earn the right, Ian. That's what you've got to do.

It's completely different. City have not won all the titles convincingly. They've been pushed all the way by Liverpool on a couple of occasions, by Arsenal. What I'm saying is that the further Celtic get ahead at the top of that league, the more the problem is.

the problems that we know about in Scottish football take root. Right, moments of the weekend. Problems in Scottish football. The champions of Scotland are ahead of the champions of England in the Champions League table. Yeah, I'm delighted about that. I'm delighted about that. We covered that on the last podcast. Right, moments of the weekend, my friend. You go first.

Well, there are so many on the all the time moments of the weekend. I quite liked Mark Kukureya redeeming himself with a brilliant header against Brentford. But he is a bit of an oddball. He reminds me of you because he then got himself...

He then got himself into a skirmish at the end of the game and ended up getting a second yellow card and getting sent off. He just can't leave things alone, can he? So that was my number. Why always him? You're right, it was a wonderful header. Weird little penguin celebration dance that he did. Not sure what that was all about. He also got an opponent booked with a...

awful piece of play acting in added time, throwing himself to the ground under minimal contact, not quite on the Kyle Walker level, but even so. And it is sometimes a little bit hard to feel sorry for Kukurela. He obviously had a difficult time last week in the game at Tottenham, fell on his backside to give Tottenham a 2-0 lead. Chelsea recovered from that, as we know. But like you say, he then has an argy-bargy with his boot company, Puma, overthrowing his

very expensive pair of new boots in the bin. I see Puma now making an ad campaign on the back of that fair play to them. Nothing wrong, nothing wrong with a bit of opportunism in the advertising industry. But yeah, Kikorela scores a great goal and then behaves like a bit of a plum at full time.

which does, um, make me wonder anyway, Chelsea onwards and upwards 65 goals in 25 games so far this season, which apparently is a record for any Chelsea team. Now my moments of the weekend, I have a couple. The first one's very quick, lovely touch at the Emirates, um, before the Arsenal Everton game, a banner, um, at one end of the ground, um, paying tribute to the late Kevin Campbell, who of course played, um, with distinction for, uh,

for Everton and for Arsenal and passed away early this year utterly lovely man Kevin Campbell I knew him a little bit when he played for Nottingham Forest one of our own the banner said and I'm sure that would have meant an awful lot to his family so well done to whoever came up with that one and my second moment of the weekend Jack Taylor scored the winner for Ipswich

against Wolves, headed from his set piece. He has now joined an elite club of players who have scored, not in the top four divisions, because there's quite a few of them about, but in the top three.

five divisions of English football. He scored in the Premier League and the Championship with Ipswich. He scored in the Championship and League One with Peterborough and he scored in League Two and the National League

with barnett well done brilliant yeah that's taylor that's a brilliant story a bit of jamie vardy about that but listen to this okay he scored in the top five there's a guy still playing you might know a little bit who scored in the top seven divisions of the english game um

He is called Gary Hooper. Yes, yes. Hooper. Well done, Chris Sutton. Gary Hooper has scored in the top seven divisions of English football. He's also scored in the Scottish Premiership with Celtic. And he's also scored in Australia, India, Cyprus and the UAE. Currently playing for Kettering in the Southern Football League Premier League.

Premier Division Central which is the seventh tier and he scored in a win over Stourbridge in October to make sure his run continues Gary Hooper and he's only 37 he's only he's only 37 mate he's the same age as Jamie Vardy two or three years less than him yeah yeah

Ah, it's a testament. 37 still playing. Super duper hooper. Super duper hooper. Love it. Absolutely marvellous. Right, there we go. Super duper hooper, super duper podcaster today. Thanks for being with us as always, everybody. All that's left to say is remember...

wherever you're listening to this podcast, hit that bloody follow button, will you? Not enough of you sticking your big fat fingers on that button. Please do it for us. Christmas present for Chris and I. While you're there, leave us a rating, leave us a review. Five stars would be nice. Leave us a comment. And of course, you can do that on X. The questions for Chris this week were good. X is the best place to leave those on a Sunday or indeed on a Wednesday before a Thursday pod or any time that you wish. We're always checking that.

And you never know, with a bit of luck, Chris could be answering yours next week. Okay, that's it, Chris, my friend. Don't know what you've got planned today, but you need to take that jumper off. And I'll see you on Thursday. I am Ian Ladyman, the man with the first trophy of the season in his cabinet. It's Chris Sutton. This has been It's All Kicking Off.