Overcoming an Authoritarian Mindset w/ Helen
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Well, we have another conversation in store in the bioenergetic world and the world that Ray P helped pioneer and put on the map. And he kind of built off of other giants that, you know, he attributed as well. But to do this conversation, we have a returning guest. Helen, how are you doing? I'm great, David. Thank you for having me back on the show. Yeah, it's great to have you on. Now, you know, I like your Twitter or your X feed because you have a lot of, you're really good at finding these obscure things.

studies and kind of finding some interesting facts that are kind of really contrary to conventional thought. And I thought it'd be great to kind of run through some of those with you today. And also, you also have been talking a lot about kind of like the principles behind healthy mental states to have a healthy, vibrant life in light of a lot of the stress that

that people are undergoing and the psyops and confusions that keep people in a demoralized or learned helpless state. So I thought maybe we could start with that. You know, you had been talking about a group in Russia that was known for longevity because of some of the way they live, some of the principles they live by, right?

Yeah, so they're called Abkhazians. And during a census in the 1970s, there was a doctor, Alexander Leith, who discovered that they had about between 10 and sometimes upwards of 50 in certain areas, 50 times the number of centenarians as in the Western world.

So he visited Abkhazia to see what was really going on there and see how they were eating, how they were living. And he noticed a bunch of things that they had in common with other long-lived areas that were quite different from the way we live here in the West. And basically all of them are in line with things that Ray has talked about. So it's pretty interesting to look at that stuff. It's interesting.

A lot of it has to do with diet. So what they're eating, like mostly fruits, lots of milk, definitely some meat, vegetables for sure. All of it grown locally and probably without a lot of the toxins that we're used to in the industrial system. So food is a big part, but it's a lot more than just food. They're up in the mountains, which lowers the oxygen pressure. And that is beneficial for retaining CO2. What's the elevation they typically are at?

I think in Hunza, it's only a couple thousand feet, if I'm not mistaken. It doesn't get quite up to, I'm not Hunza, I'm sorry, any up cut in the Caucasus. It's different. Some of them are in the valleys and some of them are like high up. So it's anywhere between a couple thousand, I think up to 10,000 feet.

So I bet that guy that lived to be 167 was up in that 10,000 feet range all the time. Yeah. I think he was in, I think he was in one of the higher villages if I'm not mistaken. What was his name? Uncle, uncle, uncle Buck or something. I don't actually remember his name. He, it's a Russian name, so it's probably I need to cough or something. It translates to uncle Buck probably. Basically. Yeah. Um,

But actually, I'm not sure if they 100% were able to confirm his birth records, but he was definitely older than anyone the researchers had ever met. They suspected just based on his knowledge of the past. So that's one way they can gauge is like if you remember events from like a certain war or things like that, when they don't have a birth certificate, you can ask them questions and come to a reasonable estimate of their age. Yeah.

Yeah, like did you know Genghis Khan or stuff like that? You've tried to figure out. Yeah. You see a guy that was running around here at one point. He looked like this. You ever seen this guy? So what are some of the other, you know, so you said they had like a diet like Ray P. Like what? I don't think they had tropical fruits over there, though. I mean, so they had a lot of fibrous fruits. Were they cooking them, though, or stewing them?

I don't think they were actually stewing them. I think they had apples was a big thing and potentially pears and figs, I think. Certain berries as well. But really their main source, their main staple, I think, was corn and meat. So it was just a high carbohydrate like corn and meat diet with also lots of fruit and milk. So if I look back at the book that I read about their longevity, I think they were eating like upwards of like six.

three or 400 grams of carbs per day, and then only like 50 to 80 grams of fat, and like similar amount of protein. So it was a very high carb, relatively low fat, moderate protein kind of diet. And so, you know, a lot of people in the repeat world are they shy away from the starches and fibrous materials and corn and wheat are kind of

Sometimes just as problematic as the way the keto and carnivore people think of corn and wheat. But how do you think their situation was different that allowed them to not have endotoxin issues or whatever various issues people raise about those starches and grains? So they have a pretty prolonged preparation process for it. So they obviously harvest it and then they soak it.

and process it with like a couple other ingredients and then they cook it so it's like fairly extensive processing and also i think we have to remember about american grains are pretty um saturated with glyphosate and potentially other not so great chemicals so that's one thing that they probably don't have over there at least not at the time when the census was done they didn't have those things so yeah how did you say they processed the wheat and the corn is it was it similar to the

Some of the other healthy ways that people use today. Yeah, it's not. So it's not like niche tomalization where they soak it with lime. I don't think they do the lime. Yeah, they probably do at least. They do at least soak it. So there's like some hydrolysis going on there. So it does break down some of the starch. But yeah, it's not like a totally beneficial, like 100% all the way process. And then what was some of the, you know, sources for protein and fat that they used for their limited amount they ate?

They did eat mostly like milk fat, I think was the primary source of fat. And then they had like, I think it's what I'm looking for, ruminant meats as well. But those, interestingly, they didn't really eat them every day. And they were pretty, the one thing they were pretty stringent about was not eating like leftovers. So they're very like eat fresh the day of, don't let things rot, don't eat leftovers. So yeah.

So they didn't have a lot of pickled or fermented food? I think they had some, but it was mostly fresh food. I mean, really, they were just harvesting and eating the food that they were growing basically every day. And then what were some of the lifestyle or other rituals or things they did that you think might have contributed to their lifestyle that you wanted to highlight?

One of the things that really struck me when I was reading John Robbins' book, Healthy at 100, I believe is the title, where he goes over these different regions where there's longevity. It's not just that they had long lives, long healthy lives. They had really positive attitudes throughout their entire lives. And that's something I've noticed seems to be disappearing from aged populations in the Western world, at least in my experience. A lot of old people tend to have

pretty like sad and resentful outlooks on life. And so one of the things he did, even the young kids have that, even the young kids, it's like people are just aging more quickly. But what really struck me was the way he described how these old people went about their lives. They had like total internal locus of control, just super positive outlooks, wanting to learn new things. Like there's a video documentary, I think it's a 60 minute documentary where they show

um all these different old people and they're like joking around with each other while they're doing these tests they're like taking their blood and they're joking around like they're having fun they're not like you know like why are you here weirdo like they're asking questions of the researchers they're joking with each other they're laughing it's like what you would expect of young people but in old people um so and one of the things that that the author of this book that i was reading attribute he attributed these qualities to was the fact that the elders were

their wisdom was highly valued in those communities. So they had a place their entire lives contributing. So they felt like they were always a part of something greater than themselves. And I think that's a really important quality to maintain throughout your life in order to keep a positive outlook is to feel like you're working towards something beyond yourself. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Like if you have a purpose higher, that consumption should not be the highest goal of your life, but oftentimes that's what it is.

And I always say, if your highest goal is to consume, you will be consumed, you know? And so what you, what you desire and idolize is what you become. So you, you become what your idols are in that way, you know, but you also, I saw that documentary, I think that you linked to that was talking about how their kids are raised differently, like without shame and a lot of, there's no violence or something or not as much as we would see maybe in, in

traditional cultures, even religious cultures have instilled. You know, that's one of the biggest revelations. It's a big mind, you know, blows your mind is that like the way in which our cultures, whether it's liberal cultures or even like, you know, conservative traditionalist cultures, how there's such a disrespect and a disregard for the perspective of children. Yeah.

And kind of treat them like they're, well, it's almost like a hazing ritual for their entire childhood where it's like, you know, get out of the way. You're small, you know, and they don't say it that way. But there's just a kind of disrespect to their way of dealing with life and joy and like a jealousy, really, that's really sublimated in the I'm very disciplinary. You know, you're actually a sourpuss.

low thyroid, you know, person who's jealous of the joy and freedom of children, even your own, and you want to break all of that in them so that they can be like you, which is horrifying, you know? And so many people are getting, you know, and no one usually gets a black or white. Usually it's a mixture, you know, people are complicated so they can, they get all kinds of mixed signals, but

I do think that's where a lot of that, you know, I know that Georgie and Ray and Danny used to talk about the serotonin personality as authoritarian personality. So maybe tie all that in from what you learned with what they did. Yeah. So the, the parenting strategy is, is very inspiring to me. Um, because if you think about it, like what you had mentioned with the, you know, treating your kids as lesser, they come to think of themselves that way and they carry that into adulthood and then they teach their kids. It becomes a cycle. Um,

And so somebody's got to break that, you know, if we want to bring love into the world, somebody has to be brave and choose to, even when it's hard, even when it's scary to actually love. And that's really not easy. So unless, you know, obviously you're instilled with it from childhood, which is what these people did. So it was almost like, you know, they're molding the kids to become good people from the beginning by teaching them that they're valued and valuable and not punishing them excessively. So yeah.

That's very I think that's very important. And I definitely like I think about that often. I aspire to be that kind of person, because once you see like how being kind and gentle and loving can actually transform a person. For me, at least, I don't ever want to go back to like treating people bad. Once you realize it works to take the first step. People have justifications for why they have to treat people bad. It's because I'm loving you in a tough way or something. Mm hmm.

And that's complicated, right? Because people often, especially like religious communities and traditionalist communities, bring up boundaries, right? And I talk about boundaries. I think boundaries are healthy. And I think there's a cultural mindset, right, that our culture is afflicted with, which has an allergic reaction to any kind of boundary, so to speak. But at the same time, paradoxically, it's completely authoritarian controlled. So some of the people who are like,

follow your bliss, do whatever your heart's desire is, end up going off into really insane directions where they lose sense of their body, gender dysphoria, or they lose their mind, or they become addicted to drugs or television or smartphones or, you know, really insane ideologies. But they think they're following their bliss because they don't understand what emotions, you know, what passions actually can be derived from. And so you have this

weird. It's a weird kind of libertinism that is the dominant religion of our society, but also an authoritarian paradox to it where it's like they're the first to put on the mask, the first to put on the stay in the house. The doctor, you know, someone on TV says no sunlight does nothing for your health and they hide in the house and order, you know, Taco Bell delivered at DoorDash and spray down the

spray down the box where the Taco Bell was left because they're afraid of disease. And yet they're the ones that will say, oh yeah, there is no limits. Break up your family and change your gender and leave your kids in the dust. So how do you square the bioenergetic approach, which is all about freedom? And I think a lot of people say, I think there's a lot of Christianity that is built into some of the ideas that Ray was building on.

How do you square that with this other kind of problem of like this toxic relationship to boundaries where there's like, don't tell me what to do, but yet there's just so much authoritarianism in there. Yeah, that's, this is probably one of my favorite topics because it's just so widely applicable. And I really do feel strongly that whatever, you know, whatever it is that gives you energy, whether it's food or prayer or doing things for others that fills you up with energy, you

all of those things can turn you into the kind of person that would be less authoritarian. And it's not that it would be, it's not that it's the easiest thing or that you don't have to practice or that there isn't accountability involved, but just the idea that it can come from a place of inspiration and not force to treat people well, you know, that you don't have to be afraid of what would happen if you don't necessarily, that's probably not the right thing to hinge all of your actions on is not fear, but

Hopefully inspiration. So, but I understand it's like it's hard because a lot of people are stuck in a place where they can't feel inspired because they're so sick that it's just you just have to get to the next day. And you're employing all of these like fear based tactics, you might not even realize a few based tactics to get what you want, because you don't have the internal motivation.

robustness to just be at peace with yourself. So it's like, it's hard, you know? And then there's a lot of wicked stress-based mutations about what God wants of you, where you have this sick Marine drill sergeant, insane person as a God deity. And that creates a lot of neuroticism in religious folks.

And I'm saying that because I have a lot of religious folks that listen to my show and I like to step on people's toes. That's what they say in those sermons. Now I'm going to step on some toes now, but I need to say something, you know, and that's when you start getting into doing stuff that'll rock the boat of your tithes and offerings, you know, those types of sermons. But, you know, but there's a point there that, you know, we all need to hear. I need to hear it. And it's great to talk about it, which is like, you know, unpacking some of these,

Like you said, being at peace with yourself. When you really think it's really hard for God to love you when you die, you can't be at peace with yourself. And I think a lot of people, I know I'm going off in a different direction maybe than you were expecting, but that's kind of what we do on this show. But, you know, it's like, you know, you think about it, it's like, you know, how can you even want to have children if you have this vicious view of God that like, oh my gosh, they have to really work hard to be loved by God to earn their way to salvation or something.

That's really terrifying to bring human souls into a world where they could experience eternal torment or something if they don't really do a lot of stuff to get God's love. And so how many religious folks live with that kind of weight, neurotic weight that is a slander against Jesus Christ? And they rob themselves of all of that energy that gets misdirected into stress pathways in the name of holiness. It's amazing, isn't it?

It is. And, you know, you're probably braver than me with your desire or ability to step on toes. But you kind of inspired me because something I'm thinking about lately is the very same thing you're talking about with like the sort of hypocrisy where it's like, I want to be free. But then in my personal life, I'm an authoritarian. So it's like very hypocritical. And I think one of the reasons that many I don't want to just put Christians in this box. Well, anyone who has the idea that like

Being good is always or mostly a chore. I think that's because if they were to do what they wanted to do, it probably would be bad. So becoming the kind of person where, you know, what you want to do is good. I think there's an energy component to that that is missed. That's a good point.

So they they they they resent doing good because they don't really want to do it. No. And if they were to do what they want to do, it would be bad. So they assume that therefore that's what you would do if you want to do what you did. So it's it's a projection. So, yeah. And there's so much fear with the grace message like in Paul.

A lot of people, they call that antinomianism, anti-lawism or whatever, which is like this fear of like easy believism or something where it's like it's easy. You don't have to be... You can be a Christian and just be a total nihilist in your daily life and then go to church. And obviously that's a problem, right? But it's weird how...

the authoritarian legalism is the same bird as the antinomianism. It's, it's one in the same. It's just like, it's just like the United States government. We have the biggest government in the world with more regulations and intrusions and surveillances of everything of our lives. And yet we have a nihilistic culture. Isn't that weird? You know, we have a nihilistic culture that can't, can't take care of itself. Can't have any savings, you know, can't,

you know, like take care of their elderly on their own. They can't do anything. They're institutionalized, they're medicalized, they're bombarded by all kinds of stressors. And yet, you know, so in one level, they look, oh, I'm free. I do whatever I want. I'm going to go and, you know, whatever, do degeneracies. And they think that's freedom. But at the same time, they are under the control of the most authoritarian ideology in the world, really.

And it's this weird dynamic that's always there between legalism and authoritarianism and then this kind of lawlessness in your own life, right? Yeah. It produces the same thing. It kind of manifests the same thing going on. Absolutely. And it's, you know, a lot of people that I've seen, like especially online, are, and I agree with this perspective a lot, that there's missing accountability in a lot of places, right?

And, but we have to remember like where that accountability comes from is just as important as taking the accountability because it can't, it's not sustainable if it comes from a place of fear of excessive fear. It has to come from a place of wanting to love God as he loves you. And that's, you know, truly loving God without fear of loving him out of fear.

is a terrifying thing. And it's because what it opens you up to is people are afraid with a stress mechanism induced mindset to love freely because they're afraid they'll be taken advantage of. And they're afraid they'll be taken advantage of because they're under the domain of death anxiety. They don't believe they're going to live forever. If you believe you're going to live forever, you don't care about what happens to like, oh, I didn't make enough money off of that deal.

Well, I can't get that bigger home now. What does it matter? You're going to live forever. This is a blip. This is like somebody said, you know, infinity or eternity times your lifespan is makes your lifespan zero. It's like nothing, you know, because there's nothing to it. It's eternal. And so, you know, being fixated on this death anxiety that people are ruled by. And that's one of the things I like about Ray P is that he has a fundamental, I don't care what people like to, I saw somebody saying something again, uh,

oh, Ray Peet's not a Christian. You can't put Christian stuff. Oh, come on. You have no idea. It's like, you know, the way Christianity works, it's a perception change, right? It's a perception change on the human species. And it operates within the institution of the church, but also operates outside of it in the cultural, in the cultures that Christianity infects. And Ray Peet was certainly learning from philosophers and thinkers and William Blake and

who are deeply saturated and haunted by the cross and the effects of what Christianity allows people to see. And having said that, I love the way he has this bold,

and the redemption of man, that God made us to be eternal. And I love how his insights say stuff like, I think, was it you or somebody that said, there's nothing to suggest in the human organism that we were meant to just succumb to death. We have all the things within our structure and energy to...

in the right conditions, you know, completely regenerate and live beyond what we think we're capable of right now. And he said, what would happen to humanity if we actually believe that? Cause that starts with the belief, right? Yeah. I think Danny had posted that. Yeah. It's, it's a total mindset shift and it can be for me when I first came across Ray stuff and was trying to square it with like my faith, it was, there was a lot of tension because I had,

been raised in a way and I still have a lot of this tendency to like, you know, there's certain things you have to do because it's the right thing to do. And you just, you know, whether it feels good or bad, you do that. And like, I agree. I still agree with that, that there's honor and duty and there's that's beautiful and very important. But without energy, it it's missing a huge piece of that that context, like what makes it easier to be good and what makes it pleasurable to be good.

You know, I think a lot of people carry they want to be good, but then they carry the resentment of doing something that has betrayed their soul. And then they end up that ends up coming out later and they end up hurting people eventually. So I really hope and see and want to help facilitate a revolution in like the therapy industry.

to inject bioenergetic principles into a lot of the psychology field and counseling and all that stuff really needs to be... Because so much of this stuff happens, you get traumatized and people say you're holding on to your trauma. And a lot of that looks like endotoxin or other things that are going on in your body, right? These stress cascades that build up over time and they literally make it harder for you to forgive and forget. You literally clean chemically

Now, this is where we get into this interesting dynamic that when the Bible talks about, you know, dying to self and dying to taking up your cross and crucifying the flesh, that includes all of those stress cascades that we talk about, right?

dying to those things means in some sense the mindset the spirit overcoming right that that mindset that is afflicted by you know biochemical pathways in the body right what do you think of that yeah i i agree i think it's um it's funny when you start reading the bible from like with the bioenergetic perspective you just see different things sometimes um so i i'll notice things as i'm going through and like i just the other day i was like reading um

through Genesis again, just because the idea of Eden is like so fascinating to me. Um, the idea of what? Of Eden, just the concept of it. Um, and the fall. Um, what, what actually was really not haunting, but, um,

getting me thinking a lot was you know basically we're like my question is were adam and eve virtuous because there were no temptations prior to the fall or you know how much temptation makes you a good person how much temptation destroys you like if we're going to view temptation as let's call it stress you know how much of that is necessary to become better and how much of that is destructive it probably depends on the person but it's something that i was thinking

I was thinking about something about Genesis today, too. About the energetic thing, I was thinking about the word for, it says that God made man from the dust of the earth. And I was wondering, I was like, I wonder if dust of the earth is kind of like the biblical language for like,

bacteria and all that you know that ends up becoming the little mitochondria that you know our body uses to power itself like is that is there a picture there worth looking into i think it's interesting yeah it is interesting for sure because like mitochondria they're the ones that were like from what i understand they're like little encapsulated little

like our bodies are made up of little and of little ensnared little bacteria right i think that was that was the prevailing theory for a while i think there's like a new theory that they were potentially created like just as a structure within the first cells i'm not entirely sure what the nature of the theory is but but they weren't necessarily from engulfed bacteria but just like energy and structure kind of like they literally were just a spontaneous kind of

Right. So what are your kind of takeaway lessons as we kind of land the plane here on some of the things that you, you know, we're looking at with this tribe here, the, or not tribe, but the Abkhazians, Abkhazians, you know, you have this link here from this paper.

It says, I never heard a child cry in protest or a parent raise his voice or threaten spanking. A command is never repeated twice. As a teacher of fidgety American youth, I marveled at Abkhazian school children. They sit at attention for hours. Such miraculous results are not motivated by fear.

And it says that their parents never scold or nag and they never criticize or punish their children. How, you may wonder, do they get their children to behave properly? They explain that parents express disapproval by withholding praise, which is otherwise very generously dispensed. So the Abkhazian concept of discipline considered necessary and good for children is not intertwined with the concept of punishment.

And they believe that physical punishment induces disrespect. Yes, it's funny. So I ride horses and that's kind of been in my life for a long time. And one of the things I noticed was that the people who tend to use punishment to train their animals have very fearful animals that are untrustworthy. You can't put a little kid on that animal. People who take the time, it takes longer, but it's worth it in the end, take the time to

emphasize reward or just withholding of praise and then excessive award when there's something dumb that you like, have much better results in the long term. You know, it might take longer, more investment, more time. And that's one of the reasons why the industry doesn't use that tactic a lot, unfortunately. But the horses that come out with that tend to be just happier, healthier and safer for more people to ride. So.

That's just a personal experience that I've had. What about, well, we can throw out one for you to see what you think of this one. What about like one of the common things people wrestle with in a modern culture of raising children is screen times. You hear this a lot.

How much television time? How much smartphone time? How much video game time? And it's so ubiquitous with streaming content and high definition smartphones and stuff that kids at a very, very young age, like two, three and so forth, can get a hold of these things. And tired parents acquiesce or people who want to be like bioenergetic and say, I don't want to say no and I don't want to be a herring and I don't want to.

you know, nag my kids. So I'm just going to let them free range. And then there's these programs designed by highly, you know, suggestible, you know, advertiser, you know, manipulators that know how to induce a kind of zombie like status of content in children. So how do you negotiate the difference between, okay, that's enough and,

versus, oh, no, let them find their way, and when they're 10, they'll realize they're sick and tired of television after they've been, like, propagandized for years. Yeah, I feel very strongly that the parents absolutely have to set the example. Like, so you can't be watching TV and using tablets if you want your kids not to be vaccinated. Like, why does mommy get to do it? Like, why does daddy get to do it? You've got to be involved as a parent, like, really taking the kids, doing stuff with the kids.

As my, you know, if that's your intention. Right. So to think about that probably before you have kids. Right. That's, but that's so many people are in that boat. Right. And so many people don't think about, like you said, what you're describing as mimesis, you know, like imitational, you know, desiring what people model for you in front of you. That's really at the heart of real education. But, you know, it makes you wonder though, how folks who are, like you said, you know,

in this imperfect world can navigate a balance without, because like, for example, if everybody's just with their kids all the time, well, that means nine to five jobs and all that stuff starts to collapse on the vine, doesn't it? So that's like an economic revolution that you're calling for here. You're starting to sound like a revolutionary, like a Ray Pete there. Yeah, you're right. It is a lot harder once you're already in it to figure out how to disentangle all those incentives that you've set up.

And no one's saying it's easy. It's the hardest thing ever. I mean, once you realize like all the, it's the same way as like when you carry on like a trauma from like your past, from the way you were raised or from people in your life that came in and, you know, you have to be honest with yourself about what,

what lessons you learned during those times, like subconscious lessons. Right. Because, you know, if you don't do that work, you're just going to carry it on to the rest of the world. So do you think that psychotherapy and all the modern psychology field is helpful or up to the task of helping people with all of this stuff? Or do you think like I'm suggesting and suspecting that maybe a bioenergetic approach that's encompassing

the energy part and the mindset part and the, you know, the food part a lot more seriously is what's necessary for people to kind of have that revolutionary shift. I, yeah. So I haven't actually seen therapy really work for any. And I know many people that have done it. I think it's, I don't know for sure that there aren't any therapists that couldn't help people. I'm not going to go on and say that that's true because there probably are ones that are very successful, but I think,

that the reason why they're successful is probably because they treat their patients like, not like clients, but like people. And they probably share actual, you know, they're vulnerable with their clients because you can't really have a relationship with a person if one of them is just like the authority and the other one's like, you know, you've got to share. So yeah, it's hard to, because I think that the main problem with modern psychotherapy, I feel like is probably the

the incentive to just keep your clients, like not solve their problem. So the financial incentive to just keep them coming back is a, is a problem. And you have to have some sense of morality and duty to not like just fully take advantage of that. Yeah. It's like an ethical mismatch, isn't it? And incentives. You got one person that's trying to like get resolved. And then one that's kind of like,

their model kind of needs to keep going, doesn't it? Right. And it's not like the incentive is like, you're just helpless for me incentive. Like you can choose to like be a good cycle. This just means that it's in general going to be less likely that you'll find one that goes against that grid because it's hard. And I do think, you know, and the bioenergetic thing teaches people to be easy on yourself and therefore being easy on yourself allows you to be easy on others, right? Like once you realize that some of the habits of your thought are

are not like random darkness that you have, but could be just like, you know, impaired thyroid function and other things are a factor there that make it, you know, you know, I saw you posted that Bible verse. That's something that I've been seeing people share with me a lot. Be anxious for nothing. Right. If it's a lot easier to be anxious for nothing when you have a metabolism like a child.

And that's what the kingdom of God is like, right? So be easy on yourself if you're not quite there yet, right? You might have to practice a little bit and being silent and patient and being easy so that you can get to the point where it's easier to be less anxious, right? Because your body is well fed. It's not in a state of stress and feeling of survival, right? Yeah, and I think that as I've been learning more about...

applying all this stuff in real life it just there's so much more to it than as much as food is really the cornerstone or the foundation for most people there's so much more to energy than food like there are things that can give you energy that are totally unrelated to even just like food or the sun it's like just reading an inspiring you know story or like watching someone do something that you know you thought wasn't even possible like those things can inspire you praying can it like there's so much more to energy than just food um so yeah yeah

That's very good. Well, I appreciate your time, Helen. And any, any last thoughts or want to give a plug to where people want to find your, your posts and so forth? Yeah. So the only platform that I currently have is Twitter and it's just anomaly with an IE underscore blue, like the color. Well, thanks. And maybe next time we can, I want to cover some of these other CO2 studies that you've found through the years. Those are fun to look at and think about. Yeah, those are cool.

All right. Appreciate your time. Thank you. Thanks for having me. If you want to follow us, you can email me hello at a neighbor's choice.com to stay in touch or follow us at David Gronowski on x.com. And we'll put a link to Helen's X and our description notes.

Bye.