Ray Peat's Christmas Morning Mindset w/ Peat Pillman
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Today's guest is Pete Pillman. How you doing? Hi, Dave. Glad to be on the show. Great to be with you as well. And I think we're going to be in for a fun conversation like we expect here on the show. And I'm going to start with the first question, which is what could be more important to understand than biological energy? What could be more important to understand than that? We all depend on it. And I think there are really cool analogies to be made between

how energy supports the body, and probably also how society functions as a whole. How would that be a connection you would make? Why do you make that connection? Aren't we supposed to look at everything as separated? Everything is supposed to have a specialist separation, right? So why are you connecting biological energy with how society should function?

Yeah, I think repeat encourage like generalization and analogies as a way to think about things and not just analytical logic and compartmentalization. You know, it's easy to make analogies between the body and society. I mean, just like in the body, you have different organs supporting the whole structure, the whole function. Society has like different occupations, different like ways we manage infrastructure, you know,

Yeah, and we all depend on energy. Right. What is energy? Well, so I actually got a minor in physics in college, and the definition there is the capacity to do work. It's kind of a dry-in definition. That's a puritanical definition of energy. I guess you could say so. But energy is the stuff that makes stuff go, right? You know, that's something a lot of people say today. Let's go! Have you heard that? Yeah. Yeah.

LFG. That's what they say. A lot of people want to have energy at least. Yeah. Energy is an interesting topic because machines, we're all familiar with the way machines depend on energy. And I think biological systems don't work in the same way. And they kind of run counter to our intuition. Like with a machine, the more energy is available, the better the machine functions or the more kind of output you get.

But with a biological system, you know, we like to say it takes energy to relax. It's sort of counterintuitive. And as you decrease the energy in an organism, you end up with like a rigidifying or a failure to inhibit energetic processes. So in some sense, when an organism is less energetic, it becomes more chaotic and mismanaged. Yeah. So does that mean that we should not say energy is a positive? It has a dark side to that or something?

Well, it's just a way to understand energy. I think, yeah, there can be a dark side to energy if you don't really understand it. What do you think, you know, creates energy? Is it matter or is it something else? Is matter and energy, you know, kind of coexistent, eternally intertwined together or does one derive from the other? Hmm.

Wait, could you repeat that question? I'm sorry. Like, is energy a property of matter or is it some kind of like co-existing kind of like, kind of like some people would say,

matter had a beginning and some people would say matter had, has always been eternal. And then we'll say that energy is just like a downstream property of, of matter. And other people might say that no matter energy are kind of like intertwined together in some kind of dance. That's like not one is, is, is the parent of the other. Yeah. I think energy can be contained in like the, the structure of matter. Yeah, certainly. But energy is also,

sort of an abstract thing that's contained in motion. Right. What do you think about the state of physics since you studied physics? Do you think physics needs a revolution similar to what perhaps Ray Peet might have envisioned for biology? Yeah. And physics could, well, let me say this. Physics has always been trending toward a unification of different concepts and

And at the turn of the 19th century going into the 20th century, we saw this happen in a big way with electromagnetism. We realized that these two fields are actually kind of the same thing, just in a different reference frame. And Einstein made the same observation with time and space. They're really interchangeable. So what is like the next step in the unification of physics? I don't know, but I think that's the trend.

I've often promoted my co-host who does a program called Science and You with me. We used to do it almost nightly. And then when we went to an afternoon show on radio, we did it nightly.

Sometimes once a week or sometimes more than once a week, but it was called Science and You with my co-host, Dr. Weiping Yu, who's a NASA physicist and he does a lot of work in aerospace. But one of the things that he developed, which is his crowning achievement of life, is what he believes to be the full unification of all physics as one particle, one law, one force, one field, one universe, right?

That is magnetic particles, dipolar magnetic particles. So he thinks that we made a mistake around the time that we started to assume that because there's two electrical charges, there must be two distinct particles carrying those charges. Of course, neutrons too, but positive and negative and neutral, rather than, you know, that's a left brain kind of left hemisphere brain dominant assumption that

that may have been incorrect. We might need to think, go back to it and say, well, if there's two positive and negative, there might be two poles of a magnet. And what we see as magnetism and electromagnetism is actually this fundamental force of all things. We don't need to postulate these kind of just-so forces like strong force and weak force. And we don't need to come up with kind of exotic forces

unprovable things like antimatter or, you know, all this stuff, we can actually unify everything much more simple, much more elegant, one particle, a dipolar magnetic particle with positive negative poles. Uh, and then the way in which it arranges itself structurally creates different, uh, you know, molecules and everything else that we see in the universe. And that we don't have to assume bizarre things like wave particle dualities, uh,

Everything is just explained as this existing magnetic medium that has infinitely divisible little magnets, little dipolar magnets. So I think that that physics theory, I've seen enough evidence over the course of my research into this independently to confirm that I believe he's on to something and that with this unification of physics will open up

The potential for a lot of profound innovations that can help humanity move past itself. I want to ask you a question because I think you'll, I think you'll, and if you need to say something else about whatever I said, that's fine too. But something that comes to mind that I think you might be able to help us with.

A lot of times when people say that, you know, when I say, hey, let's have energy too cheap to meter, let's have, you know, endless abundant energy, let's have, you know, rare earth elements that we can transmute from trash rather than having to dig through the belly of the earth. Let's have anti-gravity instead of having to change your tires every year, whatever, six months or whatever you do.

What about this idea that people will tell you, oh, well, you know, if we solve humanity's problems, if we cure all these diseases, we'll just become worse and worse anyways, because then we'll just, we're so petty that once we have

not to worry about all these afflictions and diseases. And once we have abounding energy and we don't have to spend 70 hours or a hundred hours a week, a work week away from our family, once we know what causes stress in our body, then we can eat abundant, rich, delicious foods without breaking the bank to do so. Once we have all those things, we'll be hell on earth because humans are so petty and so evil and so wicked that

That they'll just squabble. Now, on one hand, there's a side of me that says, absolutely. It sounds like there could be a truth to that criticism of my vision because I know how petty and mimetic human beings are. But on the other hand, I'm like, I feel like that's another learned helplessness myth that's made to keep us stuck in the doldrums and just despairing and just putting our nose to the grind and just like compromising with our potential. What do you think? Yeah.

Ray quoted Bertrand Russell. He said, without cooperation, humanity is finished. Right. Yeah. So the big question is, how do we encourage cooperation? Yeah. Like while we progress through all these technologies that make our lives so much easier and that act like a force multiplier for us to accomplish anything, anything in our will. Yeah. Yeah.

I don't know, that's the big question. Nietzsche, I think, has a quote as well, it's like, beware of unearned wisdom. So the proper trajectory for humanity and society seems to be like, where we achieve all these things cooperatively, and that cooperation is sustained once we get to that level. And what does that mean to achieve it cooperatively? What does that look like? Hmm.

What does that look like for us to work together and change the world? Yeah, because some people would say, well, we need to have a communist political thing. Or some people would say, oh, no, you can do plenty of cooperation nonviolently, noncoercively through mutual aid organizations or worker-owned cooperatives or just highly...

ethically kind and considerate companies even can structurally become very cooperative. I don't know how to say it without sounding like a hippie. We've all got to love each other, man. I don't know. Because I'm actually really against authoritarian kind of just like top-down ruling. Like, you know, we might agree like seed oils are bad, but it's probably the wrong move, in my opinion, for the government to ban them.

I mean, it sets a precedent for the government being able to tell us what's right and wrong. But I think we should be able to see in ourselves and choose for ourselves the right thing. Right, right. That's a tough one, too, because there's so much entrenched corporate power that only has their power over the market in food and soaps and all these things that we're told –

you know, are not so good for us. They only got that kind of massive monopoly with, but because of corporate subsidies and rigged, I call them rigged regulations, the rigged regulations. Absolutely. Yeah. Rigged regulations and corporate subsidies and trade deals and monetary policies and all kinds of things.

are all situated in such that they create these parasitical corporate oligarchs that are able to just load so many essential things with so many anti-human substances. And I am like you. I don't believe in authoritarianism, but I've become so, I guess, just thinking, well, I don't think the public seems to be ready to wake up to like a Ron Paul style thing

you know, voluntarist vision of society yet. So in the meantime, you know, let's be optimistic. Maybe they'll be ready for it in 50 years. In the meantime, transition, if we can, we transition to using the coercive power of the state against its own parasitical drivers of evil, such that

Like right now, you know, they ban certain carcinogens and so forth from being in the food supply. Right. And why can't they just ban seed oil since there are known carcinogen and phase them out? I don't, I understand you can't do that overnight. You'd kill all these small mom and pop restaurants and so forth and cripple the economy. But if you gave like a five year phase out window, you know,

and like repealed all the subsidies and stuff. I mean, it would be catastrophic. Our whole system in our country is so built on so much evil that you can't repent of it even if you wanted to in any kind of immediate timeframe. And so therefore, folks who don't have a lot of money are going to be poisoned. And it's a very ethically fraught situation because you're like,

Man, every time people have to slam, you know, I mean, just the endless stuff, you know, shampoos with garbage in it, destroying your cells. Apparently we heard that from my friend anabolic on our show, on our show. And, you know, about what Gilbert Ling said about sodium. Was it laurate or something? The detergent. Yeah. The sodium lauryl sulfate, something like that. Yeah. And everything and.

Put that in the detergent, put that in your tooth. Yeah. And hardly anyone knows what these things are. They're ubiquitous. Yeah. It's like, you know, what the hell? Why do we have so many anti-human things touching humans like at every level of existence in this country? And then you think, oh, you know, like I'm with you. Like my spirit is with you. Like, yeah, it's volunteerism. It's we have to do this to the people, but the people don't.

I mean, to the extent that they wake up, it's just so slow. It's like it can't compete with the level of violence and trickery that's being done unto them on a cellular level every day. And so you think, well, could we do as long as the people are going to 100 percent agree, Democrat, Republican, everybody else.

that we need a state and it's going to be involved in our lives to the point where it's banning carcinogens. Can we turn that predatorial state against itself? Because I see things like seed oils as a kind of really like a bioweapon that the state without seed oils, would the state be as big and permissive and pervasive and as controlling and coercive as it is today? I don't think so. I think you needed to dumb down the population, drop their IQ, and

drop their energy level, put them in a state of torpor, put them in a state of fatigue and chronic fatigue and chronic deficiency of minerals, and just put them in a state of mental illness where they're flipping off and they can't have emotional control and they're just suspicious and paranoid. All those things are proven by seed oils.

This is not something... It seems to go hand in hand with the complacency in people. Like, it saps their energy. But I don't know. Sometimes I think it's maybe just incidental. But the spirit of, like, why seed oils are so popular is... Like, its origin is evil.

And the way the factory farms got so big, you know, at the expense of the small farms was economic. In the 1970s, it was like part of an economic plan to maximize the size of farms, maximize output with no regard to like market forces. We paid farmers to just produce as much as possible. And then the government said, you know, if you can't sell it, we'll buy it.

and then if we can't figure out what to do with it we'll put our scientists on it that's that's actually like how we got high fructose corn syrup and everything which i know is not really a big peter issue um but it just kind of speaks to like the spirit of our agricultural system and our industry and our industry and technology system it's like it's not it's not centered around humans it's centered around profit

And so, yeah, seed oils are just like kind of one output of like, you know, we just need to make as much big farms as possible. We need to own the global economy. So lots of other countries are dependent on our products to feed their farms and so forth. And yeah, the excess will just somehow convert into food and get it into people just to keep making money. And yeah, we're reaping what we sow now, like cancer's up, autoimmunity's up, all because of the spirit of like our original choice

to make this system was not centered around people. Yes, yes. What was it centered around? Just money. I mean, specifically in the 1970s, the Nixon administration wanted to make the farms as big as possible, kind of in a competition with the Soviet Union. They were our big rival at the time. And, you know, we just wanted to, like, beat them in owning that type of economy, like selling agricultural stuff in the global market. Mm-hmm.

And that pet food has poisoned the whole world, you know? Yeah, it's basically pet food. It's not the right stuff for us. And so we got rich getting everybody sick and ourselves sick on pet food. And then we depleted the soils and we destroyed generational levels of health, right? Yeah, there are transgenerational effects we haven't even reckoned with. I mean, we know that's true with xenoestrogens.

some really shocking stuff that like i could share about that sometimes i sometimes i choose not to i don't like black pilling on the timeline yeah are you black pilled or what uh i'm pete pilled which is like there's white pills and black pills in there you know there's there's optimism and there's there's a a bleak realistic outlook of how bad things are but i don't know i believe in miracles i think people will wake up yeah i think um

I like this post you made on X. They said, Ray Pete said the ideal state of consciousness is this, the excitedly expected state of a child on Christmas morning. Yeah, I think that was one of my most liked posts. I just saw that groundhog so excited to wake up coming out of its cage. And it fits so perfectly. Yeah. I elaborated that on a bit with some neuroscience. I think that tweet got even bigger. Yeah, what did you, do you remember what you said?

Um, yeah, so it's kind of by chance, like I met the authors who did a study on neurofeedback and they were studying motivation. They were asking people like if you could look at an MRI, like like visualization of your brain activity at the same time as you're doing a task, could you motivate yourself just looking at like this bar graph go up if you're motivated or not? Can you make that graph go up just by looking at it?

and then perform better on a task which is associated with motivation. And what they found out was like, people can't do that. People can't just motivate themselves out of thin air, just looking at their own brain activity until they get training. So that, well, actually, yeah, they first asked people to do to motivate themselves, like without the feedback, and then they couldn't do it. But when they when they were able to have the feedback, they were able to train themselves to motivate themselves.

so they're able to activate a part of their brain you know not not knowing like really how to do that um but just by by seeing that activity on a screen they were able to to move that meter up and what that does was make them better at a memory task um yeah so

The weird thing about this study was like, okay, so people can motivate themselves if they can see this feedback measure. What does that actually mean? Like internally in your mind, what does that state like? And people had all kinds of different strategies. So some people imagined they were being cheered on by friends and that was able to motivate them. Others imagined getting a money reward. But what everybody had in common was that they felt this energy in their chest.

Almost like a high-pitched noise was trying to come out. And it's interesting to note that mice do the same thing. When they're overjoyed, an ultrasonic chirp comes out of them. An ultrasonic what? A chirp or squeak. Yeah. Does that be measured in humans? They make a sound like that? People think they do. It's more like a perception. It's not like a real ultrasonic noise. Yeah, if you can imagine like a kid, you know, looking at the Christmas tree, there's presents all around.

you know they're kind of like a bundle of energy it's like trying to come out that's the kind of that's the kind of feeling that's analogous to to what motivation is like and it's and everything right if if everything's where it's supposed to be it tends to feel everything is right with the world before christmas right yeah yeah yeah there's that sensation of energy yeah you have the hot cocoa you know what i mean or whatever and you

You're with your family and you see the lights and you have your favorite, you have your favorite decorations that you have on the tree and you have a little train around the tree and you're not in school if you're in, you know what I mean? So there's a lot of good feelings, right? Yeah. The freedom, like you can do whatever you want. Everything is like positive. You know, it's cool. A lot of those, I was thinking about that. It's like, you know, you get into the dark months.

and maybe this is a little bit like self-evident, but it took me, I just thought about it, I guess, in a different clear way that the dark months are filled with all these great holidays, you know? And I was like, why the reason why, one of the reasons why you can talk about, well, the harvest season is done and so forth or Saturnalia and all these little things, but fundamentally from a basic human existence level,

you get these really nice, fun, family-oriented holidays at the darkest periods of the year to kind of cheer you up, right? And keep you buffered and joyful, right? So, you know, how Ray always talks about how humans kind of see dark winter as a very stressed state and nighttime as a stressed state. So the most joyful time of the year, we put

Christmas, the light of the world at the darkest period physiologically in our bodies, so to speak, right? Where there's a leaky amount of sunlight and it's supposed to kind of keep us going on that basic pragmatic level of like, you know, the nicest people say, well, that's not the day Christmas. That's not when he was born. It's so dumb because it doesn't matter, first of all. And second of all, it's really a nice place to put that holiday in.

physiologically speaking if you understand the human body right that's why he said what's more yeah well said standing biological energy if you if you know biological energy you'd like christmas to be at the darkest day of the year yeah there's a method to it yeah yeah there's a method to the madness why do we have to be so grinchy you know yeah and people need it i mean ray also said there's like a compulsion towards alcoholism in the dark months yeah as a as an adaptation to that stressor so you can

You see that stressor coming into the eggnog and you can see it coming into the Christmas punch, right? Yeah, yeah. Well, then it's supported by that regenerative atmosphere, socializing and thinking about the light of the world. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's so funny. I was talking to somebody, I was saying, you know, so many of the things that we plan when we are, when we are, when you're a child, you have all this Christmas energy and Christmas is a great distillation of that energy.

And then as life continues, things start to disappoint you or they don't work out like you thought. And bullies or disappointments, betrayals, misunderstandings, all of those things start to accumulate and they calcify probably your tissue as well as calcifying your heart or your spirit. And they numb you out to joy. They numb you out to hopeful, positive things.

belief in the future. And it becomes so, so much so that like Generation Z and the younger, they tend to have such a, you know, I've said, you know, when I used to do the radio show, I would do old school style, you know, from the heart of Central Florida, you know, I would do it. And it was almost like people would look at it like,

They've never seen that because the only time you're allowed to be passionate is in an ironic sense or something. You're not allowed to be earnest with your art as people are so baked in cynicism from a culture of cynicism and just kind of like numbing and shielding your heart preemptively from disappointment.

And so, you know, it's hard to unlearn that. And it's hard to look at something like impaired thyroid function and say, you know, okay, well, where I feel right now about the future, I can't make strong plans exactly about what I'm going to do five, 10 years from now with the mindset I have now, what I know about

that the mindset I have now is a kind of matrix of stress molecules artificially put upon me due to the environment that I'm in. And so I don't have to, in other words, you know, how can you make plans based on a prison? Like if you say, if you find yourself in a prison cell and someone's like, you don't have to stay in this prison cell, there's a way to get out of it. That's what Ray Pete's saying, basically. Yeah.

You can, you know, fix your thyroid. You can fix things, get your gut health, get your stuff under control. And you can actually escape this prison cell. Yeah. You know, a lot of people come by and say, no, you can't, you have to stay in this prison cell. This is the way the world works. You were not in prison when you were a child. And now for whatever reason, you find yourself waking up in a prison cell and raised like, no, you don't have to. And so you start to that learned helplessness.

is making plans for your life as if you're going to be in that prison cell five or ten years from now. And Ray and folks like him are saying, no, don't make your plans like, well, in five years from now, I'm going to put Christmas lights over my bunk bed here in this prison cell. That's my plan. And four years from now, I'm going to hopefully get a gnarly book from the library that is really chewed up, and I'm going to be able to read that one.

And three years from now, I'm hoping that I can have cold turkey sandwich on Thanksgiving in the prison. Yeah, I love how Ray encourages spontaneity. Yeah, and it's like, my point here is just to say, and you take this where you want. I'll just say it like, you can't make plans for the future sincerely if you truly trust sometimes, not everybody has it, but if you have hormonal deficiencies or you have your thyroid as impaired even by a little bit,

don't trust what you think you're capable of handling as if that's what you can handle five, 10 years from now. You might reverse age. You might have more joyful spontaneity and creativity than you've ever had it before. Right. And that's what your birthright is. Right. Yeah. So let's dig, dig into that more about the, the, the consciousness, the ideal state of consciousness is excited. And I like this on so many layers, the ideal state of consciousness is,

is the excitedly expectant state of a child on a Christmas morning. That is the nature of reality because Christ is reality. Christ is the root of consciousness. And all human beings in their ideal state are excitedly expecting the return of Christ as down payment manifested in the Christmas story. Joy to the world. The world, right? Joy to the world. Yeah, hope in the future is the most important thing.

that I think our metabolism depends on. But who would have a hope in the future if you didn't know the Christian story, right? The Christian story is what gives us this idea that we have a future to begin with, right? The pagans were lost in something called the eternal return, as Nietzsche called it, which is that history is only a cycle, you know, and that it's all a cycle based on the seasons and that there is no springtime season

relative in the future towards what is in the past. It's just kind of a perfect cycle. And the cycle really is mediated by violence and it's mediated by power and might and subduing your opponent. At the end of the day, the heart of the pagan order, which is the pre-Christian order, is all about might makes right. And that sounds trite, but it's actually true because you cannot have

Any kind of other explanation for sacrifice and ideas of power in a pagan sense without that mantra really being underlying at all, which is I have the might, which gives me the right to rule or to take care of my people how I wish. Sure. So that's a substitution for the Christian value. Right.

I am fascinated by the intersection between the Christian story and what Ray Peet was grasping at at biological levels. And I think that if we are going to say that Christ is king of all things, then that includes biology. Biology is not some separate sphere that is something the atheist or Richard Dawkins types touch.

That's just, they're touching it, but it's actually Christ, right? So Christ made carbon dioxide to function as it should in the human body for our benefit and for the plants and animals with it. And these things are designed as such because God likes them. They're not just random molecules that are colliding around and God is like this little ghost that's like, oh, wow, that's interesting. Well, I'm really concerned about your spiritual life. No, it's all intertwined together, right?

Yeah, there's a scientist that I really like. His name is Philip S. Callahan. And I think his ideas are really in line with Ray Peet's.

There's a quote by Ray Peet from Mind and Energy. I'll just read it right here. It says, when more has been learned about magnetism, water, and the structure of the protoplasm so that long range safety is assured, we can probably expect to see the establishment of regular brain improvement resorts using the combined effects of structured water, mountain air, electrons, and environmental magnetism. It's possible that the optimum conditions already exist in some regions and account for the unique vigor of the inhabitants.

Wow. Who said that? That's Ray Peet. Oh, okay, cool. And where's that in? Mind and Tissue. Okay. Yeah, it's a book about the Soviet science, which I think is where he talks the most about magnetism. Yeah. And so I tie that a lot with this other scientist, Philip S. Callahan, because he, I think very much like Ray Peet, he was just a guy who was very observant about nature.

You know, not intentionally trying to figure stuff out for, you know, the sake of his job or something. It was just his passion to try and understand nature. And he started with like studying insects and he postulated that they respond to infrared radiation in a way nobody else had really described.

So he postulated that insects are tuned into this invisible world that's all around us. And he made some really remarkable insights, not just about insect communication and electromagnetic radiation, but also about the magnetic properties of soil. And I know I'm kind of jumping topics here, but...

yeah the magnetic properties of soil was like another big focus of his and um he was a deeply religious guy he actually tied these properties with the soil and stone with sites of miracles in churches in old europe so he he had a way of tying science with the supernatural which he thought was

It was the right thing to do because this is all in God's domain, isn't it? Right. Yeah. And a supernatural, let's be clear, is what we call it. It doesn't, it's, it's our mental conception of it because we don't have a full understanding of what the natural is. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Yeah. I've made this earth and this planet and everything naturally. And it doesn't mean that it's a reduction to say, well,

you know, you know, it's that the supernatural is just that it's a super above natural, what we consider to be like observable nature. That means we don't fully understand the full reality that we're in. Yeah. It doesn't mean, see, there's a, the problem is when you, when you make supernatural like this, again, this kind of like a dualistic compartment, right?

There's this magic box called supernatural. And then there's this other box called natural. And that's where we like do real stuff. And the supernatural stuff is where we just have all of our fun little random stuff we can't explain. Well, that's not the way it works. Actually, the supernatural used to be a lot of things that we now know are natural, you know, natural parts of our existence. And I think so many people spend their whole life, again, constructing their self-image

complex, like this is my personality, when reality is that, no, that is a personality that is completely in the matrix of cortisol and serotonin and excess estrogen and impaired thyroid function and all these other greatest hits that Ray Peet is so keen to emphasize as something to look at.

that actually these things can be physiologically actually corrected. And people say, Lord, it's so hard to be forgiving. Well, have you checked your thyroid? Right. Lord, it's so hard to be hopeful. Well, have you checked your, your metabolic, your, your metabolism? Right. How can you, well, my personality is I'm just a crabby cranky person. That's just my personality. Well, how do you know that?

Right. Yes, you can choose to be anything. You can have a great, healthy thyroid and choose to do evil, you know. But at the end of the day, it becomes harder and harder. People think that like they're designed to be a little worm and God is this angry Marine drill sergeant in the sky who is like, don't you dare say.

Come in my sight unless you are totally perfect and like in some measure of law that supposedly above even his own grace and mercy. That's what a lot of people imagine. And he's this harsh, brutal kind of ghost in the machine that, you know, when the eye of Sauron looks on you, he's going to see you as this miserable little wretched worm that's so imperfect. That's just not that is I think that is a conception of God created by stress.

Yeah, well said. And Ray Peet was definitely against that idea of Christianity, although he didn't really, you know, explicitly say like what Christianity is or what it should be. You know, he took a hands off kind of approach to that. But he did say this authoritarian view of like, you know, static structures, like people are stuck in a certain way and then there's a right and a wrong. You know, Ray Peet was against that and that judgmental view of God. Right.

And you think that's probably what undergirds so much of, again, it's like you go, you look back at the soil, you talk about the magnetic structures of the soil. And I keep thinking that the way to liberate humanity from the bankers and all that is to fix the soil. For some reason, it seems like that's a message that I keep hearing over and over again in my life is you got to fix the soil.

You heal the soil and somehow, and it's so weird because you're like, well, I don't know exactly. I can make a little, I can make a little explanation as to how that fixes it, but it's kind of just fits like a glove in a way that's hard to totally articulate, which is like fix the soil, heal the soil. And that, that makes the weeds of the bankers go away. Right. Or, or, or the, the, um, and, and agriculture, they have things like nematodes and things that bother, um,

And those little nematode banks and their control over the world, their enslavement to us, enslavement of us in debt. Like you think about why someone would take out a, you know, 30 year mortgage or something, you know, and they would put that kind of burden of bondage onto their head. They say, well, it's not a bondage. I make X amount of money. I can afford it easily. Yeah. But what kind of job are you doing? And how many, how many hours are you spending chasing in the rat race for nothing?

When you're on your deathbed, none of that will matter, really. What matters is, like you said, love. And if your kids don't see you loving them because you're too busy working, paying off some kind of Babylonian interest rate, you know, is that really what it means to be alive? Is that what it really means to be human? Is that what it really means to be if you're concerned with proving your masculinity because you want to show that you're a provider?

Well, all the people I know who are millionaires and people who spend their life chasing fame and fortune, they have really, they're really miserable about the, a lot of the conditions of their family life and their lack of love that they were able to experience or share or, or, or pass on to others. Yeah. And it seems like that's probably a big focus for, I don't know how we, how we fix the world. And that's all, that's where we get all our food. Yeah.

And that's that system of agriculture has been something that's like been parasitized by industry. Like what do you do for your daily diet? What do you recommend or what do you find helpful for your flourishing and your state of joy and creativity in your work? Yeah, I make repeats ice cream pretty often. Yeah.

Yeah, it's super easy and really affordable. It's just coconut oil, milk powder and milk and an egg. And all you need is a blender. And there you have it. It's plenty of sugar. So I kind of have this milkshake for breakfast. And, you know, sometimes I change it up with like blueberries or a little bit of coffee in there.

But yeah, I also eat real food. I mean, I tolerate starch pretty well. This is kind of controversial, but like really well boiled potatoes make up a big part of my calories, I'd say. Yeah. And like the good thing about them is that potatoes are rich in keto acids. So these sort of act like protein and they help lower ammonia, which is a product of like protein breakdown in the body.

So potatoes are great for me. And then I try, I think the biggest expense that I pay like out of my wallet is on just quality meat. So I go for like gelatinous cuts. I'm a big fan of lamb shanks and lamb shoulder chops, sometimes turkey wings. These are all pretty gelatinous. So, you know, they balance out the amino acids. It's good for longevity and keeping stress down.

And then I occasionally have seafood as well. So those are really high in trace minerals. Selenium in particular is good for conversion of the thyroid hormone. So it's essentially pro thyroid in that way. It's got iodine and it tastes good. I love shrimp. I'm not a huge fan of oysters. So I don't try and get those too often, but, you know, nutritionally, those are great as well. Yeah, that's kind of the big picture of like what I eat. Do you like orange juice? Do you drink that?

Oh, yeah. So actually, I love making marmalade. That's like probably the big way I get my citrus fruits. And I find that it like it's it's pretty awesome. You can use the whole orange. You don't have to throw the peels away. And it's got it's got all kinds of beneficial compounds in there. Are you not a fan of the grocery store orange juice? I've been sampling all of them. The quality is like really different between them. So I'm still figuring it out. It's good stuff, though.

So what are some of the things that you think that folks around us would benefit from? And is it about following these little favorite hit foods that Ray and others in his circles have promoted? Or do you think it's more about the mindset or all of the above? Or what are some things that you think people should be benefited from if they look into this kind of whole bioenergetic sphere? I think the easiest thing for everyone to do is to just get more gelatin.

You know, it's an easy thing to implement and it's not controversial. So it's honestly easier to convince people about that, especially from like an ancestral argument. You know, we used to use all parts of the animal and nowadays we're only eating muscle meat. That kind of makes intuitive sense to people. If that's the one piece of advice I could give, yeah. What's the strangest or oddest thing you've come across in your research that sticks out in your mind?

Or a couple of things, whatever. Just, you know, you know, there's always interesting things, you know, when you go down the rabbit trail of things like CO2 research. I know people have been posting a lot of quotes. The blue account, she's been posting quotes from Maduna's research on carbon dioxide therapy and, you know, using large amounts of it.

to solve problems of fear and atheism and stuff like that, which is so weird. You know, like I don't even understand like that's so fascinating. I would love to like talk to the case studies of that. Like somebody who's like walks in there like a snarling Richard Dawkins and comes out like mother Teresa, you know, what the heck one session. Good Lord. How does that work? I want to know all about that. I mean, that just, yeah.

For the curious side of me, you know, that kind of stuff like that. I love that weird science like that. Is there anything like that that, you know, you've learned or run across? I think you mentioned a few of those little interesting things like the some of the things you've referenced so far. But, you know, one thing I think is a cool coincidence. It was recently discovered that these proteins in the heart that give it structure like that hold the heart cells together. They're actually very dynamic proteins.

So in a matter of seconds, you know, if you experience a so-called fight or flight reaction or an adrenaline surge, like if someone startles you, for instance, these proteins that hold the heart muscles together will actually like you'll pull in the reserve proteins from the inside of the cell and shuttle them to the to the anchoring points on adjacent cells. So what that means is that like on the flick of a switch, your heart will tighten like physically. Right.

Yeah, and I thought that was remarkable because, you know, in the book of Exodus, when Moses is challenging Pharaoh and he says, let my people go and performs all these miracles, you know, time and time again, it says Pharaoh's heart was hardened. So I thought it was a remarkable analogy because we just recently figured out, oh, that's actually a literal thing that happens. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah. Yeah.

I think that idea that Jesus says that we are his body is an interesting thing when you think about it from a bioenergetic standpoint, right? And the idea of like stress, the stress mechanism working itself out in the collective body of people who want to imitate Jesus, because that's literally what you are my body means. It means people bound together by a shared desire to imitate the way of Jesus, right?

And what, what are the stress mechanisms that erupt socially that cause the body to be impaired? Right. And, and thinking about how cells communicate and how, you know, some of the cool things that we're learning, uh, you know, in this space about, or rediscovering things that have been done a long time ago, how color affects the body, how light affects the body in its communication with different tissues and how, um,

Matthew Spearman talked about that on a recent show he did with me and how all these things are this grand orchestra and we barely even understand even one bit of it. And how much more so, like you said, we could learn from

If we could all kind of, you know, get away from that fight or flight, I've got to hurt you before you hurt me mindset. That is so much part of human nature. And people will tell us that it's naive to think we can ever move the masses away from that. Do you think it's naive or do you just think it's something, you know, that can be easily attainable?

I believe in it. Yeah. There's some interesting analogies in biology where like you can, you can make a small change to like many, many things and it causes very large global change in the cell. Yeah. What about people that say, well, you know, Ray picks out all these things that are iconic staples of Western diet, milk, orange juice, mushrooms, carrot salad, vegetables,

sugar, Coca-Cola. I mean, these are like the most consumed products in the Western world. Why isn't it, you know, why aren't we seeing this renaissance of non-stressed out people? You know, what's going on here? Yeah. You know, there's a quote by him. It says he's probably the most damaging effect is the lack of meaningful choices. So it seems to imply like, you know, you can have a lot of good things going on, but probably the most important thing

thing that affects your orientation is uh is like hope in the future the idea that you have agency yeah i mean if you look at the if you consider like the learned helplessness experiments with mice it's really just one you know one kind of event or series of events that causes this huge shift in its perception and its behavior um and you can reverse that you know with actually like a thyroid supplement and those mice you take a thyroid supplement

I've experimented with it, but I actually don't regularly take one now. Why? Is it too weird or something? It's difficult. Yeah. Yeah, and I think like some other people have noticed there's like varying potency in the batches. Have you ever taken the Cynomel or Armor like Ray used to recommend? No, I haven't taken desiccated thyroid supplement. I've been kind of turned away from it just on the kind of difficulties other people have with it.

Some people have great results. What about that Sinomel and Sinoplus? Those are synthetic, right? Yeah, those are synthetic. So those are supposed to work pretty well. I've taken Georgie's thyroid supplement, but it's not the same because they're liquid formulations. So, yeah, I'm not a nibbler, as they call it. Do you think it's too... Is it just too tricky to get right without harming yourself, you think, for you? No, I don't think that's the issue. It's just...

You know, you have to weigh the effort of, like, dialing in your dosage and with, like, your current state. Like, do you stand to benefit from it? And I've gotten, like, really good results in improving, like, my basal temperature, just overall energy with other methods. So let's talk about what could you share any numbers of how you were, like, what your temperature was and what it is now when you wake up or where you wanted it to be and where it is now or what? Yeah, sure. I mean, like, before I started feeding,

I had the impression that like a low temperature was good because, you know, I used to think it just makes sense. Like if you're not burning as much energy, it kind of lasts longer. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, anyway, I used to never hit the 98s like in the whole day. In the morning or any time? No, like throughout the whole day. Like in the morning, I would probably wake up, you know, like 96.8 or something like that.

And then maybe I would peak at like 97.6 or something like that. So I wouldn't hit 98 and like not even the so-called standard 98.6, but just with some like vitamins. That would be considered hypothyroid then by the classic definition? Yeah, certainly by the Broderbarns definition. Yeah. So then what'd you get it up to now?

Yeah, I get sometimes up to 99 without a buttered supplement in the middle of the day. In the morning? Or what do you wake up at? What do I wake up at? Usually like 97.9. I don't quite wake up at 98 yet. But I notice the really big determinant in my temperatures is just activity. If I do something stimulating throughout the day, my numbers go up. It's not entirely dependent on what I eat or how much light I necessarily get. It's just kind of

Doing stuff and being engaged is like the biggest factor for me. Do you eat a lot of fat or do you just keep that low? Like a lot of them do.

Gosh, I don't, I don't like really track that. I mean, are you careful not to mix your macros or do you eat whatever you want? No, I don't really worry about that. That's the future of it. It's gotta be something that people could just like, not, you know, stress out about every meal because nobody wants to eat potatoes with nothing on it. They want to have a flavor on it or something, you know, a little bit of oil or butter. I mean,

The thing is, listen to your body. They always say, listen to your body. Your body is most happy when it's eating fat and carbohydrates at the same time. Yeah, a little bit of fat. I mean, it also is supposed to prevent resorption, which is an issue that comes up every now and then in the feeding circle. What is it?

Yeah, that's when starch molecules, or theoretically anything, passes through the intestinal lining inappropriately and then goes in the bloodstream. Okay. Is that leaky gut they talk about? Yeah, it's related to that. So if you have leaky gut problems, presorption is going to be more likely. And this can interrupt circulation, can just cause general inflammation.

So what's your high thyroid dream? What do you want to do with your energy when you have your biggest dream state that you're like creatively just on fire? What do you want to see happen? What do you want to be a part of in life? Is there something you want to accomplish or achieve, discover scientifically, create statistically, or, you know, clean up your closet or whatever it is, you know, like what is the thing that you want to do the most?

Yeah, I mean, I'm kind of building up towards that. Like when I when I started my feeding, I didn't know anything about engines. And I took on this project of restoring a motorcycle. And yeah, I got it running. Like this whole time I've been on. That's my side project, like at the same time as I started my Twitter.

So that's going well. And I think what I want to do after that is build aquariums. So I've been interested in the Wollstab method. Yeah, one of the things I want to do with all my energies is build aquariums. I'm really interested in this no filter method. Yeah, I've just been reading about it so far. It's tropical fish or what is it you want to look at? I don't know yet. I mean, the first thing you kind of do is you set it up in stages. So you first need the aquatic plants.

and then after that you can introduce fish and maybe snails and shrimp i think uh i joke about this sometimes but i i wouldn't mind a career like shrimp farming or something like producing a real real commodity maybe you could sell it to like chicken farmers or something there you go yeah yeah that's what we need we need smart ideas to change agriculture for

Like you said, being pro-human, that's such a novel concept. Why can't we do that? You know, why does everything have to be anti-human? You know, you pick up anything, you know, bread is so anti-human, you know, most of the time, the affordable ones, you know, flour, anti-human. Yeah, things have just been engineered in so many ways.

Yeah. You know, there's a real shocking thing I could tell you about that. So even the things we do to our food that are supposed to improve it end up just totally backfiring. So if you find bacon in the store, it's always going to have ascorbate or erythrobate added to it. So that's a vitamin C or an isomer vitamin C. And that's a federal mandate. It's in the Code of Federal Regulations. You have to add

vitamin C or erythrobate to a cured meat. And the idea is that it prevents the nitrate in the cured meat, or excuse me, the nitrate from converting into cancerous nitrosamines. And on paper, this sounds really good, but it turns out in 2006, they found out that in the presence of fat, vitamin C actually like accelerates the formation of nitrosamines. Wow.

Yeah. So this mandate that was supposed to be protecting people's health is probably doing the opposite. It's almost like there's little devils or something sneaking in little things in the regulations. I don't know, man. It's just crazy. Yeah. It's crazy. It's like little devils that hate humans. You know, I want to kill them. Put this in. And they're like, oh, what's this? It's going to help them. And like, all right, we're listening to you. We tucked it in. Yes. And then lots of people are in pain. It's like, what a sick freak, whoever does that.

I really appreciate your time. Any last thoughts you'd like to share with us or let us know about anything to how to follow you or website or things to look forward to? Yeah. Well, I'm Pete Pell on Twitter. I don't have anything to sell. I appreciate everyone who follows me. And I just want to remind people to like read Ray Pete directly. There's a lot of stuff, a lot of promoters, some with different agendas on the, on the Pete Twitter, but you know, I try to just do it out of the love of the game. So yeah,

Very good. How can people read that? Do you have a source or where people can read his works directly or besides the website, RayPete.com and stuff? I think most people already know about the big ones. But yeah, bioenergetic.life is great. It's an open search for all the transcripts of Ray Pete's interviews. So if you ever wonder what he said about William Koch carrying cancer, you can find every time Ray Pete mentioned that.

Well, very good. Thank you for coming on. I really enjoyed the conversation. Thank you. Hey, thanks for having me. This was great. Really appreciate it. Take care. And again, if you want to follow us, you can email me hello at a neighbor's choice.com. I'm David Gronowski. Godspeed.

Bye.