The Exorcism of Dionysus with Jason Jones
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Jason Jones, how you doing, sir? Are we on the air? Is this live? From the heart of the plain hills of Texas. Before we begin, can I just say something? Go ahead. I want to make it really clear. Jeffrey Epstein killed himself. I just want everyone to know Jeffrey Epstein killed himself. He didn't mean to kill himself. Hamas was using him as a human shield.

A neighbor's choice.

Well, you were always a big Dan Bongino fan, weren't you? No, not really. You know, I'm sure he's a pleasant fellow. I just don't like the muscular conservatism thing. It's kind of goofy to me. Yeah.

It's very... Not buying it. They used all their muscles to find out that Jeffrey Epstein killed himself. Jeffrey Epstein killed himself. Duh! Duh! You didn't know? I mean, come on. Of course he did. Yeah. Did you get your booster yet for your latest COVID booster? I just wanted to make sure. I wanted to be on record as saying I would never die. I mean, of course Jeffrey Epstein killed himself. Just hoping I get, you know...

Anyway. So you just came back from Asia. What's going on? Yeah, I was in Japan shooting a movie. And I just kind of live a charmed life because my daughter lives in Japan and she's pregnant. And I have a granddaughter who's two. So it was a pretty intense week of running around Tokyo. But then I got to go see my daughter and granddaughter for a couple of days. Wow. Yeah. How's Tokyo doing lately? Okay.

It's interesting because I spent a lot of time in Tokyo in the 90s, and it just feels very different. It feels older and less frenetic. It's not as high energy, huh? Not as high energy and much more culturally diverse. What did you see there that was diverse? You know, because I'm from Hawaii, I know my Asians. Yeah.

So there were a lot of Malaysians, Indonesians, Nepalese. Yeah, I guess they need workers, you know. So yeah, it was just very ethnically diverse, much more ethnically diverse and less energy. Still beautiful. I mean, the Japanese are unique. They're very special people, very unique people.

And, you know, going on the trains, it's quite an experience just because it's so quiet. Yeah. So quiet and so clean. Was everybody masked up still? There were a lot of masks, yes. Not most people. They were doing that before it was cool. So, you know, you got to give them props to that. They stuck by it. Yeah, no, look, I love, you know, my language in college was Japanese and Japanese.

I've always had an affinity to the Japanese. I think it started with the miniseries Shogun as a boy. I watched that thing a thousand times. I went there in the 2000s, early 2000s, so I'm sure it's a lot different from that. It's probably closer to what the 90s was like for you. I think the whole world is different, right? I think if I was Japanese, for example, Hawaii. Hawaii in the 90s was so much more of a pleasant, beautiful place.

and the world is changing. What's it like now? Sourful. I think once agriculture was our number one industry up until 1994, I believe, when the General Agreement on Trades and Tariffs decided to remove Hawaii from the global ag market. So overnight, in the blink of an eye, we lost the industry that knit together the community, the Kama'aina community of Filipinos and Okinawans and Chinese and

And Portuguese and all sort of the community that came together in the early 20th century, like globalism createth and globalism destroyeth. Yeah. You know, so. What do you think about the Moana series? That's tried to introduce Pacific Islander culture to mass audiences. Are you a fan or not a fan? Oh, my gosh. I think the first Moana film is one of the most perfect scripts. It's perfect. It's beautiful. I adore it.

And I haven't seen the new one. And, um, uh, but I, I've been told not to break my heart, but the original one's perfect. And just coming from Hawaii, did you see, um, the Tony and Nicole Scherzinger? Nicole's a friend of mine and she just won the Tony. Wow. And, um,

Her acceptance speech was really quite beautiful. Yeah. She said something about her faith, right? Her faith, her family, her ohana, her 5,000 relatives, which is true on the west side of Oahu. I think everyone's her cousin, you know. Wow. It's a big, beautiful family. And they're really, you know, a part of the culture and community of Hawaii. What's the update on the burn victims of Hawaii? Yeah.

Well, I'll tell you, they're not doing much reconstruction. It's quite tragic. I don't have much to update. Is it going to be a smart city like they said? Yeah, I mean, I think that everything will go according to their plan, as always. But one thing that didn't happen was they really did try to, I really do believe, putting all the conspiracy theories aside, that there was no, there was, it seemed to be a concerted effort to remove the families from Lahaina from Maui.

And they wanted to use it. There wasn't a school to do that. And my organization, VPP, came in really quickly and funded the creation of a pop-up school and then installed Starlinks and then provided free online education for everyone in Lahaina. So we took that excuse away. So, well, you have to they have to go to California or an outer island because they're

Your kids need to go to school. So we took that argument away from them pretty quick. Yeah. You're a homeschooler, right? I am a homeschooler. Yeah. But only so I don't go to prison for murder. Really, that's the only reason. It's not for my kids. It's just to keep me out of prison. Because I think that if my kids came home from school and said, Daddy, Daddy, today we learned how to put a blah, blah, blah on a blah, blah, blah.

Did you recently start homeschooling? Last day as a free man. Have you always homeschooled or is that something recent? Always homeschooled. Yeah, in fact, on my first day with my wife, I told her I was going to have 12 kids and homeschool them. And she laughed at me. And so this will be our last date. Good luck finding a wife. Wow. But I'm so charming and handsome. She couldn't. Did you cut that down to six the next time? We have seven. Wow. And I just, you know, I've just...

I always fall short of my goals. Now, Jason, you got some good news while you were in Japan. Tell us what happened. Yeah, it was really great news. So, you know, I've been back and forth to the Middle East and

Our organization, the Vulnerable People Project, has been serving the families of Gaza since the war started almost from the very first weeks. Initially, we were evacuating pregnant women and wounded women, wounded children to Egypt. But when the Rafah Gate was bombed by the IDF, that closed, that stopped. Then we began distributing food. But about 90 days ago, they stopped all trucks. But we were able to put together...

We've been able to do 2,800 meals a day this week for orphans. And, you know, that's not a lot. That's not a lot when you have, there's 17,000 children that we know of in Gaza that have not one living adult relative. Not that they're orphaned, not that their mom or dad died, but they have not a living relative. So there's 2 million people starving. So, you know, 2,800 meals a day.

It's not a lot, but we're doing our part. But then this weekend, we were able to provide a hot meal to every Christian living in Gaza through the two churches. We distributed hot meals. So we were really grateful for that. I've been to Jordan and the West Bank and Israel twice since January, advocating and working with logistics companies and meeting with people from the embassy and

Trying to get our trucks in. But we were, you know, we're happy now that it's very, very expensive. You know, just to put it in perspective, onions now in Gaza are worth more per ounce than gold. Wow. So I'm going to get for my anniversary, I'm going to buy my wife an onion necklace and tell her she should be very happy. But we really wanted to give vegetables...

to the Christians in Gaza. They really wanted vegetables. It was very expensive. So it cost us $40,000 to distribute, for example, at Holy Family Church. 450 meals cost us $40,000. Wow. Yeah. But praise God we got it in. Because there were onions in them? Yeah, because of the onions. We're going to do, our goal is

to do one hot meal a week at the church. What do they do with the onions? Is that what they use for? They put it on the rice and the noodles. Instead of meat? Or do they get meat too? Not a lot of meat. We have corned beef right now. That's all we have.

Is that something that they're familiar with in their culture or it's like a food they have to get? It's just, it's what's there at this point. You know, it's what we can get in. We're really excited to get trucks in. We're really hoping we can get trucks of food. And we have five trucks ready to roll, but that's not happening. So we're just getting the food we can in Gaza and preparing the hot meals. Yeah. Yeah.

So that's coming from, you said, Jordan or Egypt? Yeah, we will. But Israel now has just banned all aid coming in from any country other than Israel. Okay. Which has a lot of people upset because they see it as a grift, and it is a grift. But, you know, hopefully now they'll see profit tearing off of peace the way they've profited off of war. And I see this as a hopeful sign that now that Israel has banned all aid coming in from other countries,

I think that signals that they mean to end the war and then begin profiting off of our taxpayer dollars in aid and reconstruction. They're going to take how much percentage? It's basically a little welfare. You know, it's a welfare state. Yeah. It's a welfare queen. It's a welfare queen of the Middle East. They live off of that. They have the highest concentration of millionaires per capita, so they can't be welfare. Well...

They definitely have no Republicans have no business. They have no interest in giving welfare, especially to millionaires. I see it as like a welfare trans state. They're trans, you know, like, sure, sure you are. Okay. That's how I see it. You know, it's a colonial settler state in the midst of a brutal ethnic cleansing. And, you know, that's what it is, what it is.

Well, they're surrounded by neighbors that are armed to the teeth with nukes. So what do you expect? They don't have nukes. They have 120 nukes at least, right? I like Iran's little sleight of hand where they said they'll cease enriching uranium if they want a nuclear weapons-free Middle East. So if the United States forces Israel to give up its nuclear weapons—

You know, and I would say that this is something we Americans should take. That's a fair deal, isn't it? Well, you know, I would say that it's something I wouldn't have advocated, but after the past three years, and we see that the state of Israel has zero respect for civilians, they're the last country in the world I would want to have nuclear weapons at this point. Yeah, I think we do need to. They're the last country in the world that's going to give up their nuclear weapons.

Well, I think the world's changing rapidly, and I think Israel's going to see their options. You know, they're... Yeah, the world's changing. And Israel's probably going to have to learn how to play by the rules soon, I suspect. So are you overall pleased? Do you think that this is about to come to an end, or do you think there's going to be another... I mean, I'm not pleased because I'm happy. I want this war to stop. I mean, I think you and I are the same. We're...

anti-war. I mean, I'm almost a pacifist. I'm not a pacifist, but I have, especially over the past four years, I've been in and amongst and around so much war. It's just, it's repulsive. But I'm hopeful that the war will come to an end, but I have no hope that any of the parties with power will have the legitimate interest of the Palestinian people in mind. They see them as, you know,

an obstacle to be removed or a community to be exploited or profited from. But other than the Catholic Church, if you're looking for an institution with power that is thoughtful to the interests of the people, I would say the only institution on earth that treats the Palestinians as an end in themselves is the Catholic Church.

Um, I, you know, this, this myth that Israel is surrounded by its enemies just today, Qatar and Israel cut some big deal, military deal. Um, every one of Israel's neighbors, um, is, is, uh, sort of allied with Israel against the interests of, you know, the small impoverished Palestinian community. Now, according to the Israel influencers on Twitter, they always say that, uh,

you know, all the neighbors do not want the Palestinians. That's how, how, how troublemaking they are. None of them want them in. Well, you know, it's so funny about these people. These are the same people that are saying America's being invaded by Mexicans and Guatemalans and Honduras did an invasion. And we have a duty to secure a border. And then when, you know, Israel's neighbors are like, yeah, no, we don't want 2 million people. Um,

on the one hand, right? But the reality is also a lot of very thoughtful people don't want to be partners in ethnic cleansing. In fact, people were very mad at me for evacuating wounded Palestinian women who were pregnant because they said, I am now a partner in the ethnic cleansing of Gaza. And there's some sad truth to that because Israel never allows them to return. And so they don't tell people. Oh.

So if I take a Palestinian woman who's wounded by shrapnel, if I take a Christian from Gaza whose families live there, whose family was living in the upper room at Pentecost, and then she gets wounded by shrapnel from a 2,000-pound bomb paid for by the United States, dropped from an American-made and paid plane, and then we evacuate her to Egypt, she's never going home again. She will never be allowed home again.

So they don't tell you that. There's just a lot of gaslighting, a lot of dishonesty, people who are insincere. What's the truth about that?

I'm going to get you guys together for a roundtable if we can. I mean, I would love to talk to her just to just give her life advice and how not to be such a sad, tragic, pitiful, miserable human being. Maybe she should trade her dog in for a husband and a baby and she wouldn't be so keen on, you know, wrecking the future for our posterity. You just went on her naughty list when she goes to the Trump White House next week.

Oh, I don't want to be on Laura Loomer's naughty list. I think everyone is on Laura Loomer's naughty list. I wouldn't want to be on her good list. God forbid. Who's on that list? Benjamin Netanyahu. And who else? Ben Shapiro. Josh Hammer. John Hagee. John Hagee. Who else? Who's on her good list? I mean, I'm sure she mocks Hagee behind his back. Right. Clearly. He's a clown.

No, she's just sad. Like I, this is as a Christian, I shouldn't take pleasure and knowing what a miserable human being she is. We share a lot of friends in common. And so I get to hear the dirt and she suffers from bipolar disorder, whatever. And then I just get joy from that. God forgive me. I take pleasure knowing that she's despondent and wrestles with, you know, I'm not even gonna say it out loud, but.

She's vicious. I call them the spinster Zionists. The most vile, violent, cruel advocates of ethnic cleansing are either spinsters like Laura Loomer or closet homosexuals. Usually they're in the U.S. Senate. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I don't know what that's all about. Yeah.

Before we go out of the Gaza neighborhood, if there's anything else you want to talk about there, you can. But what's the news behind this statement that there's this ISIS group in Gaza that Israel is partnering with? Yeah, something else, isn't it? We now know, I guess Netanyahu, I was in Japan shooting and I got pinged from everyone. I guess Netanyahu slipped and admitted that they're funding a thuggish gang,

Look, here's what we know. Was ISIS created by Israel? I don't know. Have they ever attacked Israel? Once, by accident, they killed some Israelis. They quickly apologized. ISIS apologized. Yeah, it's interesting. ISIS was one of the nastiest of these. Actually, they were the nastiest, classless, disgusting Islamic terrorist group we've ever seen.

yeah they happen to be the ones that are friends with this like laura loomer laura loomer had a group of friends it'd be called isis yeah no it's and well and they're not muslim like the crimes that they committed cannibalism things like this come on it's not a they're not muslim it's to call isis islamists it would be like calling nazis christians you know it's absurd um

They had like a cartoonish level of violence. I mean, bizarro. I mean, I can tell you stories from my time in Iraq. The things that they did, they're just unimaginably evil.

And it's interesting how, like, Trump goes in to clear out ISIS, and then CIA and Assad and everybody who was funding ISIS just, like, stops funding them. And then they just collapse pretty quickly. And then Trump's like, hey, I defeated ISIS. It's kind of like they just said, all right, let's just pull that plot for now, you know. We're going to repurpose them as white hats or whatever else. Whatever. Yeah, comical.

Well, and Trump's legacy is in the balance right now. He has to really take this on, right? So, yeah, the fact that Netanyahu openly was advocating for the support of Hamas. Now, how do we know that Hamas is and those guys that did those killings are not involved with Israel like ISIS appears to be? Yeah, what do you mean? Well, I mean, a lot of this gift is the greatest gift that, you know, these.

And Netanyahu said that, right? Like in 2019, there's a video of him saying if we want to – the best interest of Israel is in funneling money to Hamas. Yeah. And Hamas is brutalizing Palestinians. And Smotrich said that the PA is a liability and Hamas is an asset in the court of public opinion. Yeah, true. So they really were – And that's why I think we should be advocating that the PA is –

Obviously, it's not, you know, an ideal, but I think that Palestinian Authority should be given control of Gaza. Hamas should be disarmed and removed. And yeah, I think Gaza should fall under the authority of the Palestinian Authority and we should move towards this two-state solution. But of course, that's never going to happen. What do you think 20 years from now that situation is going to look like?

What's your guess? I think guys like you and I will have to be advocating for a place in Israel for Jews in the region, because if you just look around the world, there's such a shift in opinion. In fact, in my team, and I really shouldn't even, I don't want to talk about this in the press and the media, because I will hear conservatives or others say this.

as if the Palestinians are ending themselves, right? But in my organization, we've kind of looked towards the office of that assessment as a model for VPP and trying to anticipate ethnic cleansings and genocides and ethnic or racial hatred or ecclesiocides, the cleansing of religious communities in the future. We try to game it out ahead and see how we can begin addressing it in the media or through influence campaigns or other programs. And so we do see

That the brutality of the state of Israel is jeopardizing Jewish interests, not only in Israel, but around the world, and that we will see a rise in Jew hatred and anti-Semitism that's violent and a truly existential threat.

So we don't want to talk about that. I don't like talking about that yet till the war is over because the Palestinians aren't ending themselves. I'm not against mass, you know, I'm not against dropping 2000 pound bombs in 10 cities and melting Palestinian children because that could lead people to want to do the same thing to Israelis. I'm against it because I'm against slaughtering civilians. But the devil's a judo master.

And we can see the popularity of people like Nick Fuentes, who I would say that is authentically more influential with young conservatives than Charlie Kirk or Ben Shapiro. I don't know if you'd agree with that. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Especially the younger generation. Yeah, that's troublesome, right? That should be paused for concern, especially for Christians who want a humane and decent society.

So 20 years from now, what I think we're going to have to do is hold back the tide of hatred against Jews. And one of the things I always like to remind people, the loudest, clearest, most courageous and consistent voices for Palestinians have been Jews. Yeah. And period. This to me is not about being Muslim or being Jewish. Zionism is a virulent ideology that comes from a family of Jews.

virulent ideologies. Most of them have gone extinct, praise God. It's like the last one. A Palestinian Christian friend of mine said when we were just talking about why do evangelical Christians

you know, why do they advocate sort of the Zionist racism or ethnic cleansing and hatred? And my Palestinian Christian friend said to me, it's because it's a European religion and Zionism is a European ideology. Yeah. And I never thought of it that way. He goes, you know, he said Zionism or evangelical Christianity, he said, from my perspective as a Palestinian Christian, it's not Christian, it's not Christianity. It's like a European ancillary religion.

ideology that grew to maturity amidst colonialism. So it's a colonial ideology and Zionism is colonialism. Therefore, obviously, evangelical Christianity and ethno-nationalism and Zionism are going to be partners in genocide. But we as Christians, obviously, we want a humane world.

And we have to be vigilant that we, you know, we protect people from these violent contagions. I want to ask you a question. How do you feel as a Girardian that Peter Thiel, a student of Rene Girard, who's someone who's funded a lot of great books and programs, you know, promoting the teachings of Rene Girard, is pushing, is investing in and developing companies that have been weaponized against the vulnerable, right?

Palantir is responsible, I believe, for the high number of civilian casualties, especially amongst journalists and aid workers in Gaza, because I really think the way that program works is if I'm a journalist and I'm promoting, I'm publishing articles under my name and critical of Israel, that's going to put me on the Palantir naughty list and it's going to get a drone visiting my house.

And that's probably why we've seen, I think, I don't know, but it just seems logical. Why have more journalists died in Gaza than in all the wars of the 20th century combined? I think it's because they're being targeted. Well, Rene Girard, you know, and his contemporary, what's his name? Hamerton Kelly, Robert Hamerton Kelly. They both at Stanford University, I think after 9-11 and everything, they kind of took a...

traditional, which a lot of people did, you know, like kind of bought into the general sentiment that there's a problem with this revival of this. Remember the Battling to the End and the cover that they use in the American version? There was this kind of concept of this ancient type of sacrificial sacrifice

religion rearing its ugly head again in a way that kind of Rene was really disturbed by. And I don't know, you know, I don't, obviously they probably didn't support the Iraq war when that fell apart, but I don't know where that whole scene that Peter Thiel was intellectually very impressed by. And, and they used to do these groups well after Rene was retired, you know, they would do these group discussions and,

on the campus of Stanford. And I'm not sure, you know, to what extent hawkishness remained some kind of line within that framework that kind of was the conservatives were already in world was had this kind of anti Muslim extremist,

bias. And then there was this progressive wing with the Raven Foundation and some of these other groups that emerged that were much more, you know, socially into social justice. And I guess, you know, it seems like Peter Thiel, you know, he recently interviewed or was interviewed by Jordan Peterson for the Daily Wire. And it was interesting because he was trying to critique Jordan Peterson's

inaccurate conception of sacrifice, you know, because Gordon Peterson likes to take a kind of traditional pro-sacrificial view in a psychological sense of you're giving up something in the short term for a long-term, you know, return or something, like a blessing or a favor. It's kind of like a, almost like an economic concept of delayed gratification.

And, you know, Peter said that that's not really where sacrifice is. Sacrifice is something we should reject. And he said, I'm very big on the idea that God is very much against sacrifice, like very much so. And he said that he thinks that we should take Jesus' word seriously, that when he says, you know, that such is the kingdom of these.

And he said, the child that I think Jesus has in mind there is Isaac. He said we should listen to Isaac more. And of course, he's referring to Abraham and Isaac, where Isaac truly believes that God's not going to kill him. So Isaac has no conception and no tolerance for any kind of sacrificial notion that the God that he believes in would kill him or demand his blood. And so

How that squares with Palantir, you know, I have no answer. I have no understanding. I've never really seen a Girardian-type person such as myself ask Peter Till that, and I would love to ask him that in an interview. So, you know, I saw him at the – what was it, Oxford or Cambridge, where he –

You know, he was really confronted by a lot of the protesters. And he seems to be pretty loyal to kind of a right-wing package deal that seems to say that, you know, the Palestinians seem to be, the pro-Palestinian cause seems to be

dominated by the same voices behind Greta Thunberg project and all these other global groups. That's true. But he's tribal like that. Like he's loyal to right wing intersectionality. Yeah. You know what I would say, Peter, and I don't, Peter might watch the show. You're too smart for that, brother. I think we're going to see a lot of tears from this man in the future. He's he, I think he is like Peter being swept away from Christ, the mob as so many people are right now.

And, you know, I pray he comes back. And he has a lot of—he has to repent. He has to repent for the role that he has played in this great— Would he have any power to actually stop it, though, at this point, since it's a publicly traded company? His voice. Yeah. I mean, the way it is right now, it's just—it's heartening when you see someone like Pierce Morgan—

who, you know, I say, you see this a lot, the terrorists running out with the hostages. You know, a lot of the people who have been advocating for this ethnic cleansing, now as we're coming to the end of it and the tide is beginning to turn and public opinion is beginning to turn, you're going to see a lot of people coming out, I never knew or who, I didn't understand. Pierce got off the boat, didn't he? Yeah, my friend said about Pierce Morgan is,

He's usually, when he jumps ship, the ship's going to sink. You know, he has like this uncanny instinct to like one day be totally, sincerely, shamelessly defending Israel. And then 24 hours later, you know, it's just like magic. And I'll just say in the past three weeks, something's happened where I'd be getting ratioed.

on television shows or podcasts or social media just totally ratioed you know and i love it i feel like cyrano de bergerac or harrison bergeron you know like when the mob comes for you you know like they're screaming give us barabas you're like i'm so glad i'm not barabas you can have them um but now the other side's getting ratioed like overnight like i don't know if you've noticed this like in the past three weeks and it's just i always think about you know

Christ comes in with palms, and they nail him to a cross, and there's the resurrection. It's just this pattern. And even Peter, the first pope, gets swept away. Even Peter Thiel gets swept away. It's interesting that I recently learned, and I don't know why it makes perfect sense. I didn't know this, but Dionysus...

And apparently it was known, I don't know, some people dispute whether it happened after Christ or before, but there were these legends that Dionysus, the god of wine and revelry and the crowd, actually would perform a miracle of water into wine too. And I think it's interesting if that's the case because you've got Jesus' first miracle is water to wine, which read in a Greek context, they would understand, oh, who is this?

If that is Dionysus' turf in the mind of the Greek audience that's being spread the gospel by Paul and others. What are the literary parallels there? And then you look at that, and that fits very nicely with later on when Paul recounts to a Greek court how he converted to Christ and why. He uses the word, it's hard for thee to kick against the pricks. He uses that saying in the words, he quotes Jesus saying that.

Which was an idiom, but it was also an idiom very popular in the play, which was the biggest play of the time, The Bacchae, which was a story about... Really? I did not know that's unbelievable. Yeah, so he's quoting Dionysus when Dionysus is on trial by King Pentheus.

And King Pentheus is, you know, kind of interrogating him. And Dionysus says, it's hard for thee to kick against the pricks. And that was a warning that at the, I'm, I'm God, I'm the God here. You're, you're a mortal. You think you've got me under control, but I've got you and I'll have the final number. And the, and the story of the Bacchae ends with Dionysus' followers tearing King Pentheus apart in a crowd orgy of violence.

which is just interesting. His first miracle Jesus does has this parallel with Dionysus, and then his encounter with Paul, which changes the whole Gentile world, has this kind of parallel with Dionysus. And so you think to yourself, what is God trying to communicate here? You know, what is this? And I think it's probably something to do with that Jesus coming to deconstruct the crowd. He's going to deconstruct the collective.

and he's going to unmask it, and he's going to unveil it. And he's not going to unveil it with vengeance, because with Paul, when Jesus says that, it's hard for thee to kick against the pricks, Paul is hearing that on the road to go kill people, on the road to being like a Dionysian. But he thinks he's doing a Yahweh thing, but he's actually becoming a Dionysian.

And that's kind of the irony of that statement is that instead of Dionysus telling or instead of Jesus being like Dionysus, like, Paul, you think you've got my people persecuted, but you're actually hurting me. And it's hard for you to kick against the bricks, meaning you can run, but you can't hide from my love and my forgiveness.

Right. Which is just it's fascinating. Right. That it's like this how that would have registered to the Bacchae familiar audience that that is hearing Paul recount why he follows Christ even unto death.

You know, it's so astounding. It's so radical. It's so beyond progressive for that time and even our time, obviously. No, I mean, when you look at the gospel, you talk about being beyond progressive, like kissing lepers, talking to a woman in a well, let alone a Samaritan woman, kneeling down next to a woman caught in the act of adultery. This is crazy. I just can't even imagine what it was like then to hear it, because even now it's startling.

I mean, I can't even imagine what it was. Could you imagine in the first century this? He did what? He knelt down next to a woman caught in the act of adultery and defended her. Yeah. What? And they had rocks in their hands and he knelt down next to her. Yeah. Crazy. You know, it's what I want to talk about crowds. You look at what's happening in Los Angeles. And I saw this. I was in Japan working on this movie.

And then I was with my granddaughter, my daughter. Karate Kid 3. Pardon? Karate Kid 3, I think. That's what my bet is. Is that what the... No, I can't. I can't talk about the movie right now. I'm NDA'd. But it's the biggest movie I've ever worked on. I'm really excited. But I wasn't paying attention. Then I'm in my Uber. And I actually had a two-hour Uber ride. And I wrote an open letter to America. I don't know if you saw it.

And it was my response to the images of these riots in L.A. And I thought, here they go again, trying to divide us, trying to incite us to violence and hatred. And it's the same images, you know.

BLM. They had big, scary brown people doing scary things, holding scary flags. Then it was January 6th and they had scary white people holding the scary flag, doing scary things. And now again, here we go. You got a Mexican guy on a police car holding a scary flag. And it's just like,

They keep dividing us. They keep manipulating us. And I watch on social media as my friends get swept away. And I just, and one, I feel sorry for them. And then I feel sorry for myself. Why can't I just be swept away? I would be great in a mob. I would love to be a member of a mob.

You know, I was at January 6th as a speaker and one of my best friends, she was a big BLM advocate. She's black and I love her. And I would message her when she was at the BLM events, like, don't go. It's dangerous. These are bad people. And she would say, Jason, like literally it's families and singing and barbecue. Then we go away and the sun sets and then the paid troublemakers come and that's what they show. And you see that.

And then I didn't believe her. And then I was there January 6th. And I very clearly witnessed paid agitators doing horrible things.

After watching, you know, honestly, I didn't even get MAGA. I was Republican. I voted for Trump. But I didn't get what the MAGA movement was about until January 6th. It was so ethnically diverse, so wholesome. I saw all these Vietnamese flags, Hong Kong flags. It was the most diverse political rally I had ever seen in my life. Actually, so diverse, I spoke at the January 5th event. They were like, I want to use the proper terminology here.

I always use the old word for trans. I won't use the old word. They get so offended when you say that old word. But I was like, there were like a couple of trans speakers on the stage with me. And it was just very diverse. You know, they're big, like, you know, Trump flags and they're bedaggled shoes or whatever, bejazzled shoes. And I was like, wow, you know, Trump really, this Trump movement really represents the people that Hillary called deplorables or those that we have said don't deserve representation in

in the political life of our community. And Trump kind of said, you do deserve representation. And he put together this really strange coalition. But my same friend who was at the BLM events, and I would text her, please don't go. It's dangerous. Go home. I don't want you to get hurt. She's texting me, Jason, leave. Take down your pictures. It's dangerous. You're going to get arrested. Go home. And OK, so we all went through that. And now we see it again. Here we go again. And guess what's coming down the road?

You're going to see white people with scary flags doing scary things in response to these scary people with their scary flags. And there's this Bob Marley song, Ambushed in the Night. Love this song. And Bob Marley says, they say what we know is what they teach us and every time they reach us. That's it. What we know is what they teach us and every time they reach us.

But it's the gospel. That's the only thing that can stop us, that can deconstruct the mob. It's the only thing that can keep me from being swept away from the mob. And I have friends on this channel.

You know, they're on both sides because I work on migrant issues. I fund shelters for pregnant migrants. I was about to say, are you going to be bringing in truckloads of corned beef to these protesters? If you want to keep your... If they were starving and Israel was bombing them, maybe. Yeah, and I wouldn't put it past them. I mean, you can look at what Laura Loomer... Laura Loomer is saying to use Palantir on them.

You know, they're saying, look at them flying the Mexican. Anyone flying a foreign flag should be expelled from the country as they have Israel flag pins. That's cute. But I have friends on both sides of the divide. And, you know, I have an uncanny friend group. So I have right wing MAGA and I have, you know, people that work literally work for me at the border getting swept away in the other direction. And I watch how they're both being swept away.

And I get envious. I'm like, wow, they seem to be having so much fun. It seems so exhilarating to be swept away by a mob. Gosh darn it for Jesus. I mean, I really, if I could choose my religion, I would be in the cult of Dionysus. That's probably the best religion out there, you know? But unfortunately, I've assented to the truth of Jesus Christ. That's the meta cult of all the religions, I think, was the point, right? Jesus' actions.

It's to the heart of it. You know, my grandfather was a Scientologist and he was every he's always trying, you know, every Christmas I got Dianetics every Christmas. And I joke, but it's kind of true. You know, I have raging ADHD. And I said, Grandpa, I would have been a Scientologist, but you wouldn't let me take Ritalin so I can never finish your book. But I joke, but I'm so glad my grandpa was a Scientologist because every teacher was trying to shove Ritalin down my throat.

So my mom would refuse because my grandpa, you know, was giving her leaflets on Ritalin. So like L. Ron Hubbard saved my life. Thank you, L. Ron Hubbard. But in the seventh grade, I said to my grandfather, I don't know how I was so wise in seventh grade. I said, Grandpa, if I'm going to join a cult, I want candles and sex rituals, not number two pencils and fluorescent lights. Isn't that fair? Yeah. I mean, it seems fair if I'm going to join a cult.

And I don't want... They probably do that. I mean, Scientology is very Hollywood connected. I don't think they do that. Don't you think? Yeah. I don't think so. I think it's more boring. I think it's... You wish. I'm not saying they don't belong to other people. Why was Tom Hanks... Not Tom Hanks. Tom Cruise jumping on top of the couches and stuff? That was weird, man. I think he was on prednisone. Have you ever taken prednisone? No. I have. And you want to jump on couches. That looked like prednisone to me.

Who knows? He's probably a member of multiple cults, you know? So you're not, you're not busting food to the, to the protesters in LA, huh? No, but I do, you know, vulnerable people project. They're vulnerable. The Marines are coming in. No, I'm on both. You know, look, I will tell you, and I'm going to write an article on this. I'm sketching it out right now.

We don't disagree on it. I've been writing the same article 20 ways for 20 years. I've written it 100 times. You have a template? You just replaced the people group names? No, I really do. I have a template on immigration. I've been advocating the same thing. In 2004...

I worked for the RNC and I worked in Wisconsin and I was going to meet farmers in western Wisconsin. And then I'm in this like I think it was called Black River Falls, beautiful little town with dairy farms and whatnot. And I saw these Mexican guys riding bicycles and I went to one of the dairy farmers. I said, what's up with all the Mexican guys riding bicycles?

And he goes, oh, they work, you know, on the farms. They work in, you know, different ag businesses in the area. And they're illegal. And so they can't drive or they're afraid to drive. And I said, well, you know, where do they work? And he told me, yeah, you know, we employ thousands. He said, I, he said, I employ thousands of illegal migrants. And I said, aren't you afraid of getting arrested? He goes, no, it doesn't work that way. No, not afraid at all. So I was like, wait a second, the migrant workers, we want them here. He goes, 100%.

Yeah, we need them. They're trapped in an underground economy. They're afraid to drive. But those of you who employ thousands of them have no worries at all. None at all. Like that doesn't seem right. That's when I began really looking at the immigration issue and I started writing it. And here's been my article since 2004. I read it a thousand times different ways. We have an obligation to protect vulnerable from exploitation.

We have an obligation to working class Americans to protect their jobs, to protect their income, protect their wages. We don't want to undercut them with migrant labor outside of legal protections. But we also have an obligation to protect migrants from economic exploitation. And so a just migration policy would be this. Secure the border.

to protect Americans from drugs and cartels, but also to protect their wages, right? And we have an obligation to protect migrants from economic exploitation. We should have workplace verification system that's easy to use and mandatory so that everyone working in this country has the same architecture of legal protection.

But we have some people that are living in like robin bear days in the wild, wild west. And there are those, the rest of us citizens who have this

This huge architecture, some would argue, is too monstrous of protections. And then, you know, there are those with no protections. So secure the border to protect the vulnerable from exploitation and a mandatory verification system to make sure every American worker has the same architecture of legal protection. Then quotas that make sense to America's economic interests and needs. Right. So we have seasonal visas, temporary working visas.

And so that they can be working here legally. They're not being exploited. They don't have to live in fear, skulking around everywhere. And then finally, we should take care of the dreamers. You know, if your family's here because they've been part of this dysfunctional relationship of exploitation that we've had,

And you've been here since you were three or four or seven years old. I went to middle school with you. I went to junior high with you. You know, we made out at the roller rink after skating to roller skating to Hall and Oates. We went to prom together. You ate sugar cereal and watched the Flintstones on Saturday morning. You're an American. This just this is it. It's very simple.

Nothing to be afraid of. I don't know about your family. My family is my son-in-law's from Guatemala. My brother-in-law's from Mexico, was an illegal immigrant. My aunt was an illegal immigrant from New Zealand. These are all of our families. This is our families. You can't divide us. We cannot let them divide us.

What do you say about the, like you said, the Gen Z that listened to Nick Fuentes, they're saying if we don't deport those 20 million illegals, America is over. It will become this sprawling left wing, lawless, no fidelity to the Constitution, totally remade demographic. The destiny of America will be sealed in that direction that abandons the things that people have come to enjoy about America.

I would say that our demography was destroyed when we let the Irish in, you know? Yeah.

And then the Irish, we let the Irish in. It was ruined. So let's go for it. No, it's insane to me. Look, I do have sympathy. My writing partner, John Zmirak, writes about this. He's very concerned about this, that you look at the voting and there's a fear that, you know, and the Democrats seem to use this and they want to remake the electorate. I'm not so worried about the cultural. I have more in common with...

with a pious Mexican or Guatemalan or Ecuadorian Catholic than I do with some godless leftist that has blonde hair, blue eyes, and red skin like me and pasty. So I'm not so much worried about it. I mean, that's silly. But it's a legitimate concern, right? It is a legitimate concern that these migrants are being lured in here not only to be economically exploited, but they're being exploited because of their naivete. And...

They're easier to manipulate and take advantage of as migrants for political power. And I think that's true.

And I, but what we should be doing is working on, obviously we need to secure the border. We have the right to expel everyone in this country illegally. They should expel 20 million if that's absurd. It's and it won't happen. But Obama did what? 5 million in eight years. Is that what they said? 5 million. He deported 5 million. Why was it such a non-issue back then? And why was it so much easier to do? I don't know if there's new laws. Well, you know, if you want to deport people, vote Democrat. And if you want to,

You know, drone strike people vote Democrat. You know, when Obama was drone striking civilians left and right all over the world, he was drone striking and slaughtering brown civilians and children, blowing up wedding parties and things in Yemen. You know, yeah, I guess Democrats are the best for that job. What would you do if you were on surveillance? If you want to take away our civil liberties, vote for Trump and get Palantir. It is interesting how it works.

If you want a North American union, vote Republican and Trump will sell it to the conservatives. I mean, to see conservatives like celebrating the idea of like acquiring Canada and Greenland. Oh, you mean the North American union, something we have been opposing forever. And then the war on our civil liberties coming from people who cell phone numbers I have in my phone. Like that is bizarre to me. Yeah. Bizarre to me. What would you do if you're on Michelle Obama's podcast?

She has the podcast? Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I would ask her, you know, the question. Yeah. You know what question I'd ask her? Were you the one that pressed the button to kill Awolaki's 16-year-old son? No. They would ask that? Did she press the button? I'm just asking if she was in the room. I'd ask her. I mean, all my friends tell me she's a dude. I just would ask, are you a dude? All my friends say you're a dude.

so what do you do let me let's before we go too far off on that one do you think there's any room for um for remaking a left wing that would be a much more honorable left wing is that is that is there any um is there any hope of that happening the left that's not focused on the trans kids thing and violent feminism and all this deconstruction of

I don't know. Do I have any hope for an honorable right wing? No. There's a young woman who works for me, and she's wonderful.

works with me. We fund her work. And she's a conservative Catholic, but I can see how easy she's being swayed by what's happening in L.A. It's inflaming her and I see it. And I just see how we're so simple as a people. You know, I have a friend who's a Palestinian Christian and I was just with her in the West Bank. And she says, you know, she says that she supports a three state solution for Israel. I go, three states? What are the three states? And

She said one for Zionist lunatics, one for Arab Islamist lunatics, and then one state for just normal Jews, Christians, Arabs, you know, Druze, where we can all live together. So, you know, give the lunatics their own states, the rest of us can live happily ever after. If you look at so much of what kind of fell under Trump, you know, it's really, they don't have any political unity from Dave Smith,

And so many of them are comedians, you know, and so, you know, I'll just, you know, look at, let's just take Dave Smith. He's a libertarian. Joe Rogan was a Bernie bro. And then Tim Dillon, I don't know what Tim Dillon is, but he's like my favorite guy on earth right now. And if you follow Tim Dillon, but, you know, maybe there'll be a sane coalition of the sane, of the humane, right? I don't think it's going to be on the left or the right. And I think a lot of these, I have a friend, we have a mutual friend who's black, who's friends with Nick, right?

We won't say his name probably, but you and I have this mutual friend. And he really got me to have empathy for him and the young people who follow him. He said, Jason, why do you have friends who are in the Nation of Islam or 5%ers, which I do, and yet you wouldn't be friends with someone like Nick? You're a hypocrite. Why do you accept ethno-nationalism from black people, but you find Nick so intolerable? And I said, well, because he's not aggrieved.

You look at Malcolm X, his father was pulled across the train tracks and severed in half by the Ku Klux Klan. I get how Malcolm X, especially as a young man, became a virulent black nationalist separatist, right? It makes sense. I said, but what does Nick have to be aggrieved about? And our mutual friend said, Jason, when you were a kid, every TV hero was black. I mean, sorry, it was white.

You had St. Patrick's Day and St. Valentine's Day and Columbus Day. And no one called you a colonizer and a patriarch and a blah, blah, blah. He said, these poor boys have been abused relentlessly by people in positions of authority as teachers and through the media and mocked and made fun of. What you don't understand is they too are aggrieved. Yeah. And I thought, whoa, that's really profound. Yeah.

You know, they maybe were only 20, 30 years apart in age, but we had completely different experiences. But then you look at someone who, like a Malcolm X or Muhammad Ali, who early in their lives were attracted to the Nation of Islam. And why were they attracted to the Nation of Islam? Because it really exalted the beauty and dignity of Black people. And it gave them something to cling to and they felt represented who they were. But both Muhammad Ali and Malcolm X,

Moved away from the Nation of Islam and became Sunni Muslims and were very humane and beautiful right and and you look at There's a famous scene where? Where I believe was Muhammad Ali told Don King he was gonna knock him out because Don King disrespected his Jewish trainer and Muhammad Ali lost his temper right and said I'll knock you out if you disrespect him again and

But this was a guy who's a member of the Nation of Islam, but he's standing up to a black man for insulting a Jewish man. So I just really have hope. But I think that that's where those of us who are Christians need to hold the line and not look to weaponize. And I do. I am very fearful that

there are going to be those political opportunists that look at how aggrieved and radicalized young people are, instead of trying to speak the gospel of Jesus Christ into them, are going to look to weaponize and harness them for power. So it's going to be really interesting to see how all of this plays out. But I think those of us who are conservatives, those of us on the right, have really an obligation to these young people to rescue them from sort of these Nero-

ideologies that they've been attracted to because they have been abused, right? They really have, we have allowed them to be abused and mistreated and talked down to or never stuck to me. You know, we hear it and we go, whatever, water off a duck's bill. But they're hearing it. They're four and five and seven and nine. I'm in between their generation and your generation. So I kind of see a little bit of both, you know, so I see the transition. Yeah.

Yeah, so... Yeah, right? No, we have an obligation to them and not to be bitter or hateful or mock them, but to rescue them.

Because they're going to be robbed of their inheritance. A lot of them ate the seed oils too, and that really messes you up. We haven't talked about seed oils at all. Yeah. Well, once I realized that you were sponsored by Big Seed Oil, I was like, man, I can't. He's got all that food. I am. I just want to say, I came on the show to say three things. There's a new study coming out that says not only...

Our seed oil is not harmless. They're really good for you. And they cure cancer. And Jeffrey Epstein did not kill him. I mean, Jeffrey Epstein killed himself. And now we know why you get on all the big breaks. And there are no videos. All the movie star deals. There's no videos. There are no videos of anybody. How is it that we got a video of Glenn Greenwald

Before we got a video of one person from Epstein Island. How is that? There will be a video of me before there is a video of Epstein Island. I can promise you. We'll never, ever have a video from Epstein Island. Never. It's just so bizarre to see Don Bongino and Cash Patel. How dishonorable. You know, I'm so grateful that.

That my political inciting incident was in eighth grade when I had a radical libertarian teacher that made us read Anthem and Harrison Bergeron and Cyrano de Bergerac. And in all of the things I read, it was very clear. I'm just going to get shot in the end of the story, right? Like Harrison gets shot. Cyrano gets ambushed. This is how it ends. So just don't be dishonorable. Yeah.

Well, I appreciate your time. What's your, what's your, the best website for people? I want to help for people that want to donate to the food that you're developing. We want to make sure we can get some more hot meals over there and get them onions over there. Yeah. We have three big initiatives right now, brother, vulnerable people, project.com. We've got a lot going on. We're, we're, we're advocating for Christians in India or, you know, that are facing horrible. You were going to India. Did you go there yet?

No, that'll be my, I'm only going to be home two more weeks. I just got home hours ago from Japan. So if I'm incoherent and, uh, that's now, you know, why a 25 hour travel time because weather delays. Um, yeah, I'm only gonna be home two weeks between now and Thanksgiving. Um,

a lot of traveling. But our big initiatives right now are, you know, in one state alone in India, 280 churches were burned down and there were only 340 churches. Can you share where you'll be in India or you can't? No, I mean, it's probably prudent that I don't share, but I will be in Nigeria as well. You know, we have a program in Nigeria where we provide security for churches and also synagogues that are being threatened by Islamists. We're bringing food into Gaza.

We still have our safe houses in Central Asia where we shelter our former Afghan allies as they're waiting for their visas to be processed. They're all SIV recipients, Special Immigrant Visa recipients. And in Sudan, we've been evacuating Christians from Sudan out of the conflict zone and providing shelter and food. So it's just been a really intense year.

But yeah, the initiative that's really a big budget item for us is we're providing one hot meal a week for Christians in Gaza going forward and also as many meals per week as we can. This week, it's been about between 1,800 and 2,800 meals a day for orphans. These are hot meals. And we're hopeful that there's going to be a ceasefire soon.

And then once there's a ceasefire and order is established, the large NGOs will come in, funded by governments, and we can step away. But what the Vulnerable People Project does is sort of like you think of those Japanese vases where the cracks are filled in with gold. We try to be the gold that fills the cracks. You know, once the conflict ends, these large NGOs that are generally, I don't want to be disrespectful. It's not that they're risk averse, but they have to be prudent. They're large organizations. They have a lot of stakeholders involved.

They can't take the risks or a small organization like ours can. And so our sort of our mission is to to serve in those moments of crisis that where it's outside of the mission or abilities of large organizations to serve. Fantastic. So we want to support him and those efforts and we'll continue to watch what happens. Maybe we'll do a show with you during one of your travels if you have time.

Yeah, and I just, again, I want to make sure everyone knows that Jeffrey Epstein killed himself. There are no videos. No. You're a conspiracy theorist, David. I'm not. I want everybody to know that, man, this administration is radically different from any administration. So different. Shockingly so different. I mean, we're even going to get another war. If we go to war with Iran...

I'm just, I give up. I'm moving to Micronesia on a little island, build a hut, just fish till I die. Yeah, that won't be a good situation. All right, take care. I appreciate you, Jason. I'm going to sleep. Good night, guys. Good night.

I took the boat away.