Veronica (Celestialbe1ng on X) on Her Journey to Ray Peat, Sugar Fasting, Fairy Princess Diet
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A lot of people talk about sleep issues on that diet as well, sugar fasting and having a hard time with sleep. Did you run into any sleep issues when you did your Fairy Princess protocol? Fairy Princess, no, because you have the, first of all, I always did tons and tons of gelatin. And some people really miss out on that. I thought Fairy Princess are very busy at night doing all kinds of blessings and helping people with their wishes and stuff. They're not night owls?

Not on this diet, huh? You go to sleep at a good hour. On this diet, you should be sleeping like a baby. A neighbor's choice.

Well, we've got a great discussion in store today. Someone who's been a great influencer for the bioenergetic world and health and nutrition. Veronica joins me. How are you doing? Hello. Well, thank you. How are you doing? I'm doing great. It's great to have you on in the podcast world. You know, usually we've seen you on X or Twitter, and you've been doing a lot to promote the ideas of metabolic supremacy, as you call it.

You know, that's what your page starts off with when we go to your ex-celestial being with a one instead of an I there. It was a take and I had to do something. Yeah. You start off with, you're saying, let me out-doctrinate you. So tell me a little bit about where this comes from, this idea of out-doctrinating what we hear from the mainstream. Sure, of course. So,

I believe that the vast majority of people, even the ones in the so-called known, you know, the ones that think they, you know, have escaped the wokeism or like, you know, red pilled,

even those people, I don't think they necessarily still know what they're doing. So they would, you know, you probably know that, um, in the, even in the red sort of pill, uh, community, um, the carnivore diets or like, um,

All those sites are extremely popular and I don't think they are doing people any good. And not to mention, obviously, the average person who is indoctrinated by the mainstream media. So I think...

The vast majority of people, I would say 99%, do need indoctrination and sort of a serious one. Right, right. You're in London, correct? Yes.

So is that your context for experiencing most of your life? Did you grow up there? Is that what you call home? Or is that something new, this area? I call London home at the moment. I grew up in Pond, very close to Krakow.

and moved to London as a teenager to study law at the university. And I've been living in London ever since. And my family is in London at the moment, my friends, and everything that I hold dear is in England. Right. So do a lot of the censorship or the kind of indoctrination that you talk about, do you think of it from...

the general, you know, the British way of doing it? Or do you see it kind of in the general American-influenced, you know, context that we think about? Because I know it's a whole different ballgame over there. You can get arrested for things you say on Facebook or whatever. Oh, yes, 100%. Yeah. And I think a lot of the influence, dietary and otherwise, comes from you guys. Yeah.

And also my entire sort of audience on Twitter X is American, it's different on Instagram. And so the American influence, we sort of kind of almost look up to you, like whatever those guys over the pond are doing at the moment, you know, it's kind of influencing and it has a huge impact on, you know, things over here.

But we forgot to, as you mentioned, the freedom of speech is kind of non-existent over here. You can definitely get arrested for saying the wrong things. So when you were younger, did you want to get involved with health or did you have another topic of interest that was driving you?

Well, I grew up with skinheads and political sort of rebels and we organized demonstrations and protests.

I could probably show you some pictures. I had this sort of really short hair. I was wearing those, you know, Dr. Martin shoes and just organizing protests. And that was my entire life. So one time I remember I was 11 or 12 and I was this writer. I had this sort of a poetry or like reading of his work.

And I knew because of my family, I just knew that his family was deeply, deeply associated with communism before. And so we would storm the reading and would call him out, how dare you? Not like that, but could

Could you please talk about your involvement in the regime and killing of your brothers, your neighbours? Now you're behaving like nothing has happened. So I did all those things. I would sometimes lie to my parents that I'm going to some school trip, but we would organise demonstrations and protests instead. So that was...

Yeah, that was my sort of thing growing up. And not much has changed. Yeah. So you mentioned on your ex before that you're influenced by people like Murray Rothbard or Hans Hermann Hoppe. These are people that come from a libertarian anarchist, kind of a paleo-libertarian world. These are people usually associated with the Von Mises Institute here and not too far from me in Alabama. So how did that...

that whole scene get into your zeitgeist where you were at. You said you're hanging around skinheads. Some of those skinheads don't like Murray Rothbard either. No, no, no. So that was more sort of being more kind of national throughout my teenage years. I started, I guess, reading libertarian literature later on at the age of...

18, I would say. And it made sense. You know, I don't think being governed or like, I don't think anyone apart from God has, you know, the authority over an individual. It's just not something that I agree with. Yeah.

Interesting. So then how do we get to you discovering Ray Peet and what has become what you're known for now on your platform where you've been able to influence a lot of folks to look at the world of Ray Peet? Well, after arriving in London...

I would say I was a little chubby as a teenager growing up. I just like to eat a lot and I was fed by my grandma and by my aunties and I was just healthy but like in a way not sort of model skinny as I wanted to and so after arriving in London I thought the girls around me are kind of skinny and beautiful and like that sort of you know I never paid attention to it beforehand.

And so I started dieting and one thing led to another. I lost a lot of weight, of course. And a few months down the line, I was eating 800 calories to maintain, you know, after, okay, maybe not a few months, but like after a year and a bit, I had to eat like 800 calories to maintain my weight. And that went on for about, well, almost 10 years, actually. Yeah.

terrible consequences. I lost my period, was diagnosed with Ovarian Syndrome, insulin resistance. I was exhausted. I was... Were you doing one type of diet the whole time for 10 years or all kinds of different things?

No, so it started off actually with the, it was called the South Beach diet, I think. You're just not allowed to eat sugars, fruits, vegetables, and lean protein were fine. But when I stopped seeing results, that was actually the time that Prince William and Kate Middleton were getting married, and she revealed that

that she went on the Dukan diet before her wedding to lose some weight and the Dukan diet was just pure protein, no fats, no starches, no sugars, nothing, just pure protein. So imagine steamed chicken breasts, tinned tuna in water, egg whites, egg yolks probably a little too fatty. So then I went on that kind of diet and I did that for a year and a bit.

And that was still 800 calories or 900 calories of just pure protein. You can imagine the damage was severe. So for 10 years, you were just, you know...

Starving myself. That's like a rabbit, what's that called? Rabbit starvation or something they call that, where you just eat, you can't survive on protein alone? Yes, yes. It was pretty brutal, and I was quite strict with it. Then developed an eating disorder in a sense that, like bulimia type thing, so I'll eat a little bit more than...

I go to the bathroom and that went on for like 10 years. And then COVID hit. And for the first time, I lived on my own in this tiny shoebox type flat apartment in London. And I thought, well, you know, no one will see me. We've got like a fake, obviously, but pandemic going on and people are at home.

What if I try to understand how my brain works and I don't think I'm diseased. That's what the psychologist psychiatrist had told me for 10 years. I don't think it is anything to do with my childhood. My childhood was pretty great.

I just think it was, you know, I just, I'm just hungry. And that's why I do those things. And so I started reading, um, up on things and the recovery took me, I don't know, a few days, honestly, once I understood how things worked, uh,

And I understood I had to eat a little bit more. But because my metabolism was so low, I was gaining weight on, let's say, 1,500 calories, you know, on 1,200 calories. And so I did gain a lot of weight. And shortly afterwards, when I could travel again, I didn't get vaccinated or anything like that. So when I could travel again, I went to first in Switzerland and to Sweden to stay with some friends and to get better.

And I was still doing sort of raw meat and reading up on art and sort of following people like...

Or the raw meat people, I guess. But things were not... Was that enjoyable at all? I mean, doing the only raw meat? I mean, what are we talking about? Not just raw meat, but mainly. I think, yes. I mean, I grew up eating steak tartare since I was tiny. And so that was really enjoyable. Was that the guy... I had a guy on named Josh...

Rainer, and he had this, he was following this raw thing that he almost died because he was eating raw meat. He didn't drink the green juice. Was that the same? It's some strange man's name. I can't remember the name of it right now.

Van, van, vander, something with a van. There's a van in there. Not aware. Not aware of any of that. Not the same one. Okay. Maybe not the same thing, but mostly raw foods. And things were not improving all that much. I wasn't really losing weight. But also, I was still, you know, I still had the brain fog. I was exhausted. I was tired. It was just, I always had to have a nap a couple times a day almost. And then...

Well, I came across this one circadian biologist type person and even though he wasn't necessarily a huge fan of Ray-Pete, we got really friendly, online only, but really friendly. And so he told me, why don't you start eating sugar? And why don't you take progesterone and thyroid hormones? And I was like, hmm, interesting.

Is that going to help? And he never mentioned their name, Ray Peach. I guess those guys are just, they think they're so much better for some reason. But then a few months afterwards, I saw the first raw carrot meme and things kind of started making sense. And I could never get thyroid hormones in Sweden, even with like my British doctor international prescription. And

And I could get T4. But I didn't end up taking it. Perhaps for the better. But once I returned to London, well, I had to return. I had to go back to London because a family member, I found out they had leukemia. And then I really got into Ray-Pete. I remember starting Twitter mostly to ask Georgie, Georgie Dinkoff of All People for help.

for my family member and I started tweeting out of that despair. I was living on a like a reclining chair next to my family members hospital bed and while they're going through you know their treatment and I was just so angry and felt so powerless and started tweeting out of that sort of anger

and it took off for some reason, but because I wanted to help them and also help myself, that was just loads of reading. And as I was reading and learning, I was tweeting, and it's just things happen. That's my story. Yeah, that's very cool. So let's go back to some of the first things you said. They were trying to convince you that you had some kind of psychological problem when really you were just hungry, you said. Yes. How many, like...

How many cases or how many people who think they have some kind of psychiatric disorder or psychological problem or maybe they're – so either they're diagnosed or even they may have something but they're undiagnosed. How much of that do you think is because they're hungry? Because that's a huge – that's a vast difference in terms of solutions. Yes. Okay.

Well, I can speak for bulimia. I don't believe it's a sort of a mental issue. Well, it is, but those things are interconnected. I think it's a stress issue, of course. It usually sort of develop bulimia after a prolonged period of dieting. And so obviously your body is so stressed.

that it almost develops this kind of starvation prevention mechanism. And because those kind of signals, they stem from this almost animalistic part of the brain, you know, responsible for kind of like survival and sort of instincts that you don't think about. It's so strong and it's compelling, but it stems from

a stressed organism trying to survive. That's what I've learned. And once I realized that recovery was so easy because, you know, all this sort of, I wasn't diseased. I didn't have terrible childhood or past. I was just hungry. And,

the urges to bend were so compelling because my body was literally trying to keep me alive and you know and so once I understood that and and so obviously your thinking brain okay so I'm not sure how okay so the animalistic part of the kind of brain like the instincts that we you know generate they almost don't

respond to reason and so you just have to sit it through and like observe it as from like a third person perspective at the same time you kind of have to feed yourself so your body isn't stressed anymore and so yeah it was pretty easy then and I think a lot of women men as well but mostly women are terribly misinformed they are told that something is wrong with them that they are diseased

In fact, it's their healthy body trying to keep them alive, to be honest. Not in a perfect way, because the business are not perfect in any way, but our bodies are survival machines. And in one way or another, your body will try to help you stay afloat, survive. I think you would agree probably with the notion that most of these psychological disorders...

are actually metabolically driven, right? Like depression and bipolar and schizophrenia, all these serious things. A lot of them can be resolved through proper metabolic, you know, feeding and bioenergetic principles, which is interesting because this is something that I was chasing this

investigation alongside the, you know, I was in the keto and low carb type world for years and knew all the players still do. And, you know, along the way, I met people like Dr. Chris Palmer from Harvard Psychiatry, who, you know, he's getting people, you know, alleviated of symptoms of schizophrenia by getting them in a ketogenic diet where they don't hear voices anymore. But the moment they go back to eating regular, the voices come back.

So it's like these ketogenic approaches are, they're good like stopgap measures when that's all you know, you know, to just like remove, but to do them long term, you know, you have to stay on the medicine, so to speak, of ketosis, which is something that long term is going to have problems. And so the bioenergetic approach, I think, is a little harder for some people to get into and make it work because it's so different from what they're traditionally considering is, you know, sugar is evil. Yeah.

But, you know, and when you think, okay, I took the sugar away from my client, like Dr. Chris Palmer would say, and then he stopped hearing his voices. I bring the sugar back. He's hearing voices, the scapegoat sugar, but it's not, it's the inability to process the sugar that's going on there.

That's usually the case. I think that and also people who go on the ketogenic or carnivore diets, they usually remove a lot of other toxins. So they would remove, you know, gums and preservatives and terrible things associated with processed foods.

and terrible oils etc so they see improvement they think oh um the carnivore diet or the ketogenic diet saved my life and really removing the poisons um you know what moved the needle um so to speak and and perhaps um helping the body relearn how to metabolize sugar would be the best solution maybe not

help relearn, but like unblock or like remove the blocks that are in place and that prevent you from, you know, metabolizing sugar properly. So for folks, you know, because I have an audience that are here for various topics, it's not always bioenergetics. So for folks who are not familiar, can you speak a little bit about those metabolic blocks that you just mentioned and how to remove them?

Sure, of course. And so one of them would be avoiding sugar for prolonged periods of time. Another one would be just compromised metabolism, compromised thyroid function, starvation, that would be in my case. And so removing them, a few things for me,

Probably the most well a few things actually helped Simon so that mean b1 which is a key player in Sugar metabolism huge help huge huge help Another one would be probably lowering fat and not many people want to actually admit that to help your body

relearn how to metabolize sugar, you probably want to cut down on fat. And I think that was Ray's idea as well, not just for weight loss. Because people think, "Okay, well, I'm going on a high-sugar diet. I should remove fat. Otherwise, if I don't want to lose weight but I really want to fix my metabolism, I can fat max and sugar max simultaneously pretty much." Well, that's not the case.

Because sugar and fat compete, obviously, for oxidation. And so if you want to help people to relearn how to oxidize sugar, it would be easier if you lower dietary fat and not just, obviously, unsaturated fats, but saturated fats as well. So that's probably, I would say, lowering fat, obviously, removing all polyunsaturated and saturated fats, but also lowering fat.

supplementing with thiamine, aspirin maybe, a thyroid, but not many people can get thyroid. Do you use thyroid or do you not take it or you don't?

- At the moment, yes. I did not, I had a huge, a long, long break. I go back to it last week, two weeks ago. And there's a profound difference. But also, I would say, because not many people can get thyroid, but many people can get vitamin B1. And I also started using vitamin B1, what, two or three days ago after having, let's say, a two month break.

And the difference is profound. I couldn't stop smiling. It was just so nice. And I think...

People argue that, you know, oh, our ancestors didn't use vitamin B1 or thyroid. Well, OK, fine. Our ancestors weren't vaccinated 72 times, weren't exposed to radiation 24-7, didn't eat terrible diet their entire life. They were not dealing with things that we have to deal. And so if you can help yourself,

help your biology fight the really unfair fight against the modern environment by any means necessary, I would say go for it, or otherwise you might be regressing as an organism, to be honest. It's not a level playing field, you know? Yeah, and that's kind of a challenge to a lot of the it-has-to-be-ancestral-only crowd.

There's a lot of truth in that world, but you can't be absolutist about that because you can miss out on some things your body might actually need. And I always say that the Bible begins in a garden and ends in a city. So there's something to be made and something to be constructed with the human mind that involves technology. And that might include things that can help us heal because of the bad use of technology like

Bad drugs and bad food and all the other stuff. You mentioned avoiding fats. Do you think coconut oil is an exception to that rule or does it itself, if you eat it in any significant quantity, also contribute to blocking people's metabolic improvement when they've come off of a mixed diet and standard diet?

Sure. So I think coconut oil might be an exception purely because it almost kind of metabolizes like sugars. It metabolizes really sort of, it takes almost no time and the mechanism appears to be similar. And so some people, like for example, this great guy called Thermobolic on Twitter, he

He is on thyroid hormones, but he swears by eating tons of coconut oil with fruit and sugars and combining for weight loss and metabolic efficiency.

It's hard for me to say. Have you or anybody you know done A, B testing where they do like no fat or coconut oil only fat and seeing if it makes a difference or no? I don't know. I haven't actually seen any sort of not proper, just anecdotal evidence. Those are one of the perennial questions that I've always had since I got to know Ray Pete and started talking to him is like he would say, okay, avoid fat as much as you can. And then he would talk about this.

coconut, you know, Ray Pete carrot salad thing. And I was like, okay, well, how much can I have of that? And then like, how much can I put in my coffee? Or, you know, like, you know, that's one of the things that I liked about the low carb world is that I realized, okay, if I go 30 carbs or less, I'm generally going to go in the direction that I want to go for this diet. But with Ray Pete, there's a lot more variables going on, right? Don't eat these things, but then coconut oil for your carrot thing. And then this thing and that.

And I'm sure you probably have found, would you say, is the carrot salad the best thing that you've used in your toolkit from Ray Peters or something else that stands above that, like thyroid or B1? Yeah.

What would you make it? It's pretty powerful. But recently I've been finding more success with actually well-boiled mushrooms. And so I think Danny Roddy mentions the thing. He mentions that they have very similar sort of properties.

purposes is the gut cleansing, hormone balancing. However, the carrot salad might be better for people with diarrhea and the mushrooms might be better for people with constipation. For some reason, I can't explain, I can't remember the reasons. And I've been actually paying a lot off. And so I

After a few days of eating well-cooked white button mushrooms, you sort of chop them up really nicely, add a little bit of olive oil, a little bit of salt, and you almost feel clearer, I would argue. Do you drink the broth with that too, or do you just eat the mushrooms?

People don't want to try this at home. I do both. I do both. Sometimes I make really nice, lovely meals that mushrooms are part of them. Sometimes the salad. Success with both. But with regards to the most PT interventions that I really felt, obviously thyroid, progesterone, B1, so high doses actually thiamine.

What else? A lot of people like Thiamax on that, and I found that. Do you like that one, or is there one that does better for you for B1? Thiamax is good, although I think Thiamiga, that's how you pronounce it, I think. I think it's better. And so those are like the combined different types of B1.

Some people argue it's too strong after a while. I find it great, not too strong at all. And you can feel a profound difference after taking it. It's like your body's clicking, you know, working again. You can't stop smiling. It's just this warmth, you know, and energy. And of course, sugar, of course, orange juice, the simple things. How's the orange juice in London there?

We're here in Florida. It really depends. So we have those grocery stores. One is called Waitress, the other Marks and Spencer, third one, Sainsbury's. They all do French oranges. Great. But if you can get good oranges, doesn't happen a lot.

But when oranges are in season and you get great oranges and you squeeze the orange juice yourself, nothing compares. Yeah, that's for sure. That is for sure. Yeah, it's a whole different ballgame when you can get fresh oranges. And I have a background in working in the citrus industry. I had a citrus company. And there's nothing better than like we used to have a variety that's not as popular anymore called a honey tangerine.

And, um, the, the, the orange, the juice from is like an Amber, you know, orange is beautiful. Um, and it's so good. If you, if you heat it at all though, because there's a few brands that tried to sell it and it just tastes like a tomato juice or something, it just ruins it. So that's the same thing for good Valencia oranges or any of that. So, um,

You know, orange juice has always been a key component of the repeat toolkit, as you mentioned. Is it because of what do you what does it do for you? Does it do you use it as I know you have we can get your book, but is that you use it as like a meal to just use orange juice as a foundation for a meal or or how do you use it? I sit on it in between meals with me.

after meals, before meals, any chance I get. It's just so good. People say it's sugar water. It's quite far from it. It's the natural sugars, it's the B vitamins, it's the magnesium, the potassium, trace minerals in general. Right.

It's medicinal. I think Ray mentioned that if he had to offer just one piece of longevity advice, he said, sipping good sweet orange juice every second of your life. Yeah. So if that's just one advice and it's orange juice, you might as well try doing that. Right.

Well, let's talk about, we're leading up kind of talking about some of the things you use, but you've put a book together with Anabology, the Fairy Princess Diet or Fairy Prince Diet, right? So tell us a little bit about that and how that works for folks who might want to check that out.

Of course, yes. So the name, first of all, that came from anabolic sister. She came up with it. And I thought, well, that's just ridiculous. It's not going to work.

but then I thought to myself it's actually almost too ridiculous and in my work actually it did I think people mmm and I think I'm receiving good feedback and well so the very princess died is actually the honey diet that an apology created I contacted our body and that's him well look I've been doing your honey diets for

I don't know, two months now and lost tons of weight. I have tons of energy. I'm feeling great. Would you like to maybe write a book together? And people actually, some people had an issue with it, with that being monetized. But the honey diet, which is the fairy princess diet, the blueprint is there. And we said that with Anabology. It's there on Anabology's, in his bio.

No one is taking that away from you. It's always going to be for free. But if you want to support your favorite creators, get a meal plan, get recipes, get shopping lists, get like, I don't know, well, then you can get it, but you don't have to. And so the honey of the favorite princess diet is this sort of high sugar diet.

and also protein restriction, time restriction, not protein restriction at all, but protein time restriction diet. And so how it works is that scientists discovered that if the body perceives it gets a lot of sugar, but protein is restricted,

a protein that sort of is called FGF21 raises and that sort of skyrockets. It makes it really easy to lose weight. And so you restrict protein for the first, I would say, two-thirds of the day, but still include gelatin. I think the first version of the honey diet was just honey, just sugar.

And many people continue doing it this way. And I think adding gelatin, that doesn't... Obviously, gelatin is an incomplete protein, so it would not interfere with the protein restriction, but adds the sort of calm. You're not too hyper. You're not too... Yeah, I would say hyper is the right word. And so it adds the sort of calm and also...

I would say, you know, protein is important for the liver, for example, to clear out estrogen, et cetera, in general for the liver to work. And so by adding gelatin, I would argue it makes, you know, it makes it really sort of safe and reasonable for a diet that sounds restrictive, which I don't think it should be. And so you eat the gelatin with the sugar for the first two thirds of the day, and then you have a nourishing diet

protein, either protein with fat or protein with sugar meal for dinner. And you have milk also before bed because obviously we have to remember that Ray said that you should be mindful of your calcium intake. And so I think it's a great weight loss diet. Do I think it's great long-term?

It can be, but I don't think you would want to sort of just eat sugar and gelatin for prolonged periods of time. But it's extremely effective because you don't have to...

drop any calories. So most of the diet, like weight loss diets, they will tell you, oh, eat less and move more. The Honey or Fairy Princess diet says you don't have to drop calories, and you shouldn't, actually. You can just be more smarter about not mixing the macros, not entering the macronutrient swampland, so to speak, and restricting protein, but still nourishing yourself, getting enough nutrients, enough calories,

for your metabolism to stay thriving and even actually increase your basal metabolic rate, as happened in my case. So right now I'm on...

two and a half thousand calories for maintenance and as we discussed before I was gaining weight on 1500 short couple few years three years ago so

So, it's great. It's a pro-metabolic diet and fantastic for people who want to lose weight. I know Anabology, in one of his early descriptions of it, he said that you have to have a period of kind of like burning off the sugar where you kind of fast. Do you incorporate that in your version of it or do you think you just eat all the way up until dinner and then switch to your protein meal? Is the gap important to make it work or no?

We thought so and I thought, you know, it takes three hours for sugar to metabolize completely and so maybe it's a good idea for people to wait three hours before having that protein and fat heavy dinner but then we decided it might be maybe too difficult for people to be eating just the protein

Sorry, just sugar and gelatin for such a long time and then still have to wait three hours. And it works nevertheless. So then we dropped the sort of break and decided, you know what, just eat your, yeah, just, you don't need to have that break. And you also don't need to exercise. You can exercise in the morning, in the afternoon. But if you eat protein at dinner and you want to have a fatty protein, then you should probably not eat carbs with it, right? You got to pick which. Exactly.

Yeah. Very cool. Now, a lot of people have now taken off. I want to get your reaction since you're a co-founder with this fairy princess diet. There's this big thing that's blowing up more in another space that

the YouTube world that's outside of the bioenergetic world with folks like Mark Bell, who is a bodybuilder, and Cole Robinson. They've been talking about sugar fasting and sugar diet, and they have different versions of it. Some of them do sugar all the way through with no protein diet.

And, you know, and Cole Robinson has his shtick where he's telling people you can just go run through this for, you know, if you have a lot of weight to lose, go 60 days sugar only. Or, you know, sometimes he'll modify it to have a break whenever you want. But you see these guys popping up and they have different variations. I want to hear your reaction to what they're doing or saying if you've seen it.

I have, yes. So first of all, I remember Cole Robinson from my eating disorder days and he had this thing called...

snake juice diet I think it was called the snake juice diet back in 2016 and 17 and I really that was the time yeah I was fasting as well I mean I done so many water fasts sadly and so then he was eating rot rotten meat etc um yeah I think really yes I think sugar fasting

It's extremely helpful. If you have to do any kind of fasting, it's probably the safest. However, I still think even for the elimination of estrogen, the liver needs its protein. If not for anything else, you need some protein to help your liver work properly, detoxify, get rid of estrogen, etc.,

And so I think if you do it for prolonged periods of time and over and over and over again, you might run into issues. Is it the safe type of fast? I would say yes, yeah. If you do it for a day or two, it might be fine. Personally, I've done sugar fasting a couple of times. After a day, literally all you can think of is meat. And that brings me to my next point,

It's not very pity if all you can think of is having meat, quality of life, enjoyment of life. If you're hating what you're doing, even though it's sugar, it's pro-metabolic, it's helping you or whatever.

If you're like, if all you can think about is meat, having a normal, comforting meal, that's not easy at all. You're basically kind of torturing yourself, and that's not very rapid-coded. Right, right. That's a good point. And people have complained about the possibility of being in that type of stressful diet can impair your metabolic rate over time, which is strange because you think, well, if you're running pure sugar, that should be raising –

you're meant to have a metabolic rate, but you also, like you said, you need other materials besides sugar to, in the long term, be able to process all that sugar effectively, right? So...

It's interesting. A lot of people talk about sleep issues on that diet as well, sugar fasting and having a hard time with sleep. Did you run into any sleep issues when you did your Fairy Princess protocol? Fairy Princess, no, because you have the, first of all, I always did tons and tons of gelatin. And some people really miss out on that. I thought Fairy Princess are very busy at night doing all kinds of blessings and helping people with their wishes and stuff. They're not night owls?

Not on this diet, huh? You go to sleep at a good hour? On this diet, you should be sleeping like a baby. And first of all, you need the sugar and gelatin diet. It's called sugar and gelatin for a reason. You shouldn't be having tons of gelatin. That's calming, you know, stress-lowering.

Then you have your nourishing protein meal and you have milk at bedtime and you can add gelatin to your milk. If you're having protein and sugar, you can have honey milk, which is obviously almost sedative.

You can have gelatin milk, collagen milk, honey milk, and nourishing protein meals that never had sleep issues on a fairy princess diet with the pure sugar. I can imagine some people might run into those issues, yes. Very good. So do you believe in having a gap between sleep time and drinking milk there and honey versus having a meal, or should you just kind of blend it all together?

I think having your dinner at, let's say, 7 o'clock, 8 o'clock, whatever time you like to have it. And then let's say you go to sleep at 10.30 or 11, you have your milk at bedtime or as a sort of –

But you can have it as dessert straight after dinner as well. You can have panna cotta, which is milk and gelatin. I'm really heavy on the gelatin, you know. You're known for your oxtail. That's good. You do a lot of stuff about oxtail, which is cool, right? Are you a fan of Vietnamese food, pho and everything? You have plenty of those probably around there in London, right? Every day almost. Yeah. What's your favorite oxtail recipe?

Oh, you know, I haven't cooked it a lot myself. I tend to, whenever I can get over to a Vietnamese restaurant, I get the pho, you know, and just load it up with the tendon. I don't know what's in it. I don't trust the little meatballs. I don't know what they put in them. So I say no meatballs, extra tendon in place of those little meatballs, and that's what I do. Beautiful. That's a lot of fun. But try them. Maybe I'll send you some. Okay.

Maybe you can try yourself. Another thing I like is menudo. Have you ever had that? It's a Mexican. You use beef hoof and beef tripe and some peppers and stuff like that. That's pretty good. Would that be parts of the stomach, like gizzards? Yeah, it's the cow stomach. It's different parts of the cow stomach. And then there's beef hoof.

They take the hoof and you just find, so you're just going through it. All of a sudden you see somebody's hoof come up. It's pretty, you know, it's, it's a bit, it's a bit, uh, uh, you know, startling for people who are not used to seeing a hoof come up in their soup. You know, if they're used to chicken noodle soup from Campbell's, but it's, it's pretty, pretty refreshing. And you put that with a little bit of, um, uh, the little puffed out corn hominy, they call it in Mexico, uh,

put some cilantro on that. It's delicious. And that's very PD. I know Ray Pete had that. He was over in Mexico all the time. He had to have had that. Well, I want to talk just kind of, you know, we've talked about some of the foundations, but you know, a lot of this really has to do with, you know, we want a better world, right? We want a society that's not so psychopathically run and governed. We want people to be

flourishing. We don't want people to be stuck on nostalgia to look at like what could be, Oh, wow. Look how nice it used to be. And that's, that's something that, that was a fascinating thing for me to learn from this community that the feeling of nostalgia and sentimentalism sometimes is your body yearning for an earlier period when your metabolic rate was more on unencumbered and more alive. And so you, you remember those memories with that

happy feeling and I think it's fascinating that that the society that's stuck in the past is a society that's metabolically broken in the present right yearning for the the childlike state right maybe mm-hmm I think Nate Lawrence had a beautiful tweet once that says and You know The past is already that we're not

well it's not happening again and bioenergetics is about um adapting to the present sort of taking the best you can from the past but not sort of uh romanticizing it too much as in like oh we have to return to the way things were before i think a great quality or like the only actually most important quality of a biological organism is the ability to adapt to the environment um

that it finds itself in at present. And that's how we survive. That's how we have to adapt. And so all those things, all those people who maybe, oh, no, let's return to the past. Let's return to the way things were in the past. Well, that's not happening. Maybe the question we should be asking is how can we not only survive but thrive together?

in the environment that we're in at the moment. What are the best solutions? What are the best sort of interventions?

Maybe eating sort of ancestral diet and not taking any supplements, just eating raw meat and et cetera was great back then. Maybe taking thyroid hormones and B vitamins and aspirin is good now, considering the environment we are in at present and the challenges we have to overcome. Right. I'd say that politics is downstream from thyroid. So we have to be able to get...

If we want to live in a society that's less violent and less deranged, it has to start with that metabolic rate that we all have. And I have to commend you for doing what you can to promote this to a larger audience outside of

you know, let's face it in the bio energetic world, you have folks who are so learned that they, they know a level of biochemistry that the average person, it's just not familiar with. And you've been able to distill all these things in an effective way. And you've been able to reach a lot of people that way. So we all want that because I want, I was attracted to Ray Pete's ideas from the political context too. I mean, we talked about, you know, how difficult it was to organize dissident voices and groups and,

And he said that's the biggest challenge is being able to organize. And he used his dietary principles as a kind of starting point to try to heal people, knowing that they would then, I guess, organize about those healing principles. And then as they raise their metabolic rate,

become the organizers for a better future. So it's kind of a political revolution. Is that how big your ambition goes with what you're doing? Or do you just want to stick strictly to just healing people and that? Because there's nothing wrong with either way. Some people just to get one person healed is their ambition. And then other people are like, no, I want to see a political revolution and I'm here for it. I think the goal is to

raise collective consciousness in general. I had this conversation actually earlier today. So many people, you walk around and you see people sedated, asleep. That's due to many things.

And you sort of, I know I talk about nutrition, but oftentimes it starts with nutrition. It starts with lifestyle. It starts with the simple things. And then you suddenly, I don't know, become aware of and start sort of more digging. I wrote this piece on serotonin the other day, how

you know, it makes you docile and domesticated and not trying to escape anymore, not asking questions and how that's kind of ideal if you wanted to enslave a population as a whole, you know, just hook them on serotonin or like and I think breaking free from that sort of learned helplessness state as Ray spoke about, I think that's what's needed for people to kind of

you know, start asking questions again, start demanding things, start sort of like

I don't know, refuse and like the sedation and like wake up and like realize that you're being kind of taken advantage of really. And, and also it's, it's a political matter, but also, you know, just free us all. Like, I mean, it's like, you don't know how great you can be as a person, as a spiritual being. And when you, when you're asleep, when you're sedated, sedated. Yeah.

How does your view of God fit with your view of the bioenergetic path that you're on? I mean, you just mentioned that spiritual element there. How do you see those connected? I was raised thrown Catholic.

And I had a tiny little period break when I'm sort of rebelling maybe as a sort of older teenager. But apart from that, that was my upbringing. I think that good metabolism is something that brings you closer to God, to the divine. Almost like you're one with the divine. It's...

um it makes you a better person brings you definitely closer to god and ray and and carl jung and anita they all speak about um those those things um uh about the childlike stage or like the eternal boy or like you know um i think it's that's been you know um

That's sort of my opinion. The kingdom of heaven is like children. That's what Jesus said, so that would be a high state. Indeed. And I think that's...

just incredible that Jesus said, as he mentioned, you have to become like your children to enter the kingdom of heaven. And then Ray Peete's entire philosophy is about returning to the childlike metabolic state. And I also like how he, Ray, talks about this biological premise that we were meant to live forever, which is very Christian, really. You know what I mean? This rejection of entropy as a kind of psyop.

by people who want us to believe you only have so many heartbeats. So don't race. Don't, don't do anything that raises your heartbeat too fast. That's like the, there's an anti-aging community that likes to do that. Like you have to divvy up your heartbeats and, and then there's this, you know, you, you know, we can now, we can only get glimpses of the past with ancestral diet and,

We can only, you know, in terms of the good old days, it's always the golden ages behind us. Whereas Jesus's first miracle is the best wine is at the end, which is a total, a total attack against that view of history. Right. Which is like the best is yet to come, not just for yourself, but the human species and the planet earth and everything that we do with it. Right. I completely agree. Yes.

So how do you navigate between, you know, in the theological sense, we call that already not yet. We're already the kingdom of heaven has arrived, but it's not yet complete. How do you navigate becoming like a child while you have psychopaths all around you trying to, as you've mentioned before, draw you into stress?

Raise your cortisol. I saw you have a hat on your website. Don't raise my cortisol, right? So how do you become a child like the kingdom of heaven, but still be on guard against cortisol and all this type of stuff?

I think the key difference we have to differentiate between being childish and being childlike. Childish is naive and childish. I'm not so sure what other words I can use to describe that state. And childlike is just having sort of being whimsical and happy and joyful as opposed to

whatever else we're experiencing, what's the opposite that we're experiencing people sedation, you know, I think it's,

Childlike would be the opposite of sedation, would be the sort of youthfulness and joy and those things. And there is a profound difference. So let's not be naive, but let's definitely be whimsical and joyful. Ray said, I think in some place, that the future of humanity will look a little more female-oriented.

And that's interesting because then you have like the Hillary Clinton archetype where she says the future is female. You say, well, how could those two people say something? But they mean totally different. Could you explain that for audiences? Like this estrogenic.

Hillary Clinton model of the future is female versus the progesterone future is female concept that maybe Ray had in mind where there's maybe you could help people understand. Let me think about it because I haven't heard of that concept. So, okay. Maybe in a sense that progesterone really is sort of life-giving and life-saving both for females and males.

And so how would you interpret that? Well, how does having a higher progesterone to estrogen make your disposition? Are you more easy to forgive? Are you more easy to love, to not hold grudges? You know, if you look at the fruit of the spirit, right, love keeps no record of wrongs. It does not, you know, this concept of a high metabolic rate should associate with

a happier, more pleasant, joyful humanity that's more whimsical, more creative, which is kind of the best attributes of females versus the Hillary Clinton model where it's stress and it's estrogenic and it's kind of, there's two different ways of looking at a female experience. Most people encounter the stress one because that's the one promoted by society in a kind of psyop.

Yeah, in that sense, I see precisely what you mean. I hope that our future is progesterone. Any vision where the lion is laying down the lamb would have to be kind of progesterone-like, you know, in terms of that flourishing, right? Sure. Well, I appreciate your time, Veronica. It's been great talking with you. You know, I think that...

You've laid out a lot of different things for people to think about. And thanks for sharing a little bit of your journey for those who may have not been familiar with it. I think that's cool to see people willing to put their stuff out there and share their, you know, their triumphs and failures and, you know, mistakes or things they learned along the way when it comes to.

You know, but, but you've, but you've, you know, whenever you do that, you're going to take arrows and you've taken some arrows. I know a lot of folks who put themselves out there do. So I appreciate what you're doing and keep up the good work.

Thank you so much, David. Really appreciate you and honored to be invited. I appreciate what you're doing as well. Having conversations with really valuable people and politicians and nutritionists and repeat people. And I love your podcast and

It's an honor. It really is. Thank you very much. Well, thank you for coming on, and let's do it again sometime. Of course. We'll have you on again sometime to talk about what people can do. I think Make America Healthy Again, there's a lot of stuff we could do there. Like you said, a lot of countries are looking at what America is doing, and they want to imitate what we're doing. So this is a great opportunity to exploit that advantage we might have with Robert Kennedy there. Yeah.

Thank you. Thank you.

I took the road. I took the road. Woo!