Hopes for Trade Deals Drive Tech Stocks Up, Musk Calls Trump Trade Advisor "Moron"
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From the heart of where innovation, money, and power collide in Silicon Valley and beyond, this is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow. ♪♪

Live from New York and San Francisco, this is Bloomberg Technology. We continue to cover the aftermath of President Donald Trump's sweeping tariffs with stocks rebounding on hopes of trade deals following the biggest rout in five years. I focus in on a Nasdaq 100 that is up 3.5%. Only three stocks are generally in the red on the entirety of the benchmark as there are hopes of South Korea deals, Japanese deals. Ed, what's on the micro perspective?

Yeah, two of the biggest technology names that are in the headlines, and that's Tesla and Micron. Tesla is based around a feud between Elon Musk and Peter Navarro. Navarro commenting on television that Tesla is not a car manufacturer, it's a car assembler, which prompted Elon Musk to call him a moron, quote, and explain that actually most of Tesla's components in the car itself are microcomputers.

built with items originated from the US. The stock at session highs, whether that's direct, who knows. Micron, Reuters reporting that Micron's passing on the cost of tariffs to customers in its supply base. The market cheered that. No comment or official word from Micron yet. They haven't answered my call, but interesting in the market's context. From a micro perspective to the macro, more broadly aired trade headlines. Look, they're continuing to drive the markets, of course, with optimism building for trade deals with South Korea, with Japan, but...

China not backing down on President Trump's tariff threats, vowing to "fight to the end." Let's break it all down. Bloomberg's Mike Shepard is with us. Very different tactics. Talk through the latest in terms of South Korea. Well, with South Korea, they seem to be following in the steps of Japan and trying to open up very quickly negotiations with Washington on some kind of deal that would ameliorate or eliminate altogether the reciprocal tariffs that are about to take effect at midnight tonight.

And those tariffs, of course, would be damaging to economies around the world and especially to the trade relationships between these two tech centers, Japan and South Korea, that are so important as well to Silicon Valley. Now, the mood music is leading some to think, what would happen with China? Is China ready to also somehow approach...

President Donald Trump. And the president indicated in his Truth Social post that he was waiting for a call from Beijing. But the mood music, as you indicated, is a little bit different in China. They're sending mixed signals. On the one hand, they are pointing to a willingness to talk, to actually have this conversation about trade. But at the same time, they say that they are willing to fight to the end. And this is in response to President Donald Trump's threat to impose even more tariffs on China if Beijing follows through

with its pledge to keep its retaliatory tariffs in place.

Mike, I'm trying to keep this deeply focused on the technology sector, right? And it's hard to piece it together. Why are the Korea headlines important? One reason, Korea sends $10 billion worth of chips to the U.S. every year, 80% of the memory. You saw the Micron headlines from Reuters. That's one part. The other is that China's not moving, right? And that was the speculation of the last 24 hours. How do they react? What happened overnight was really, really severe. Just recap the wording that the Chinese issued.

Well, when we think about the Chinese, they were talking about how they would fight to the end. And that really sent a signal to the markets and to investors and even to companies that we could be in this for the long haul. And if you're Apple, with so much production, for example, 80% of iPhones are still made in China. Even as Apple has tried to diversify its production lines, it has been much tougher. So the signs of a thaw perhaps with Seoul and with Tokyo

do lend some optimism, especially for producers of products. You think of Sony, you think of SK Hynix, you think of Tokyo Electron and some of the more sophisticated chip-making equipment that they produce. All of these things are in play. But China is really the big target here just because of the size of the economy and the amount of trade that the U.S. does with China.

Bloomberg's Mike Shepard. It's Apple exactly where we want to go next. Shares of Apple rebounding in the session after what was basically three-day, biggest three-day drop since the 2000s. President Trump's tariff threats. Sending customers to the stores. There's panic buying.

of iPhones ahead of speculated but potential price increases. Joining us, Bloomberg Intelligence's Ana Ragrana. Your job is to take data, your own data, third party data, look at the case, best and worst case scenario. What do you do with data or reporting that there's panic buying of iPhones, particularly in this country?

Yeah, but the thing is that may help, you know, let's say minor earnings in this upcoming quarter, but it doesn't take away the big risk Apple has on procuring more phones for down the road when the next iPhone cycle comes in, when the December quarter comes in. I mean, there is a lot at stake right now, especially when it comes to the size of the tariffs that may hit China.

That's so important that ultimately May 1st when we get their fiscal second quarter earnings, unlikely to show this, it's not going to show up until their fiscal third quarter. And meanwhile, they try to navigate not current inventory, but future supply side, maybe coming more from India. Where is that going to help them on the margin front? How much can they rely on that anorak?

See, they can bring some phones from India, but, you know, there are a large portion of the pro models. India is getting hit with tariffs also. We don't know if somebody finds out that, OK, they are circumventing and trying to get phones from India. We won't have an additional tariffs on that. So there is a lot going on right now. And then almost on a daily basis, we hear about some new tariffs being slapped. But we can remember at the end of the day, it's been the whole target of that is to

try to open more factories in the U.S. unless there is some negotiation between the two countries. So I don't think Apple escapes this any time in the near term. Anurag Rana, putting it plainly, we thank you from Bloomberg Intelligence. For more on tech markets, we broaden out from just Apple to across the board. Dip buyers emerging. Jay Jacobs is with us. BlackRock U.S. head of thematic and active ETFs.

Boy, have we seen some inflows and outflows, Jay. Break it down what today looks like versus the last couple of trading days.

Well, we're seeing a bit of a relief rally here in very strong volumes and corners of the market where I think people have been looking for buying opportunities. If you look at areas like artificial intelligence, look at areas like small caps, a lot of investors have been hunting for deals in these areas. And now that they're off 10%, 15%, 20%, it represents a really attractive entry point for long-term investors. So we're seeing people get very granular about finding targeted opportunities for these lower valuations here.

And they therefore think that the valuation erosion that we've seen in some of these AI names, some of the chip stocks in particular, that they're at the right buying price right now, Jay?

Well, there's certainly contracted valuations here. And what we've been hearing from clients for a while is, you know, they love the AI story. They see the structural disruption. They see the massive total addressable market of artificial intelligence. It was really just a question of valuations. Was this an area that was a little too hyped, a little too inflated by the markets? Now that you're seeing those prices basically 20% off since the beginning of the year,

Those concerns are gone. And yes, maybe the landscape looks a little bit different, but if you still zoom out and look 10 years ahead, there's a ton of conviction in artificial intelligence, and at these valuations, it's hard to pass over. Jay, if the trade conflict goes on indefinitely, is there a corner, a specific area of the technology industry where you do want to boost your exposure?

There is. You know, we actually brought out a strategy a couple of years ago, very focused on this, which is IETCs, or U.S. Tech Focused ETFs. And it's specifically looking to remove geopolitics from technology stocks. The tech sector has over 60 percent of its revenue coming from overseas, very globally integrated supply chains. And if you can really isolate companies that hire, build and sell in the United States, you can still get that tech exposure, that tech growth, but try to limit. What's in it?

and limits on the impact of supply chains. Jay, what's in it? What names are we talking about? What specific technologies, specific supply chains do you want to go into?

Well, if you look at the portfolio today, it's actually underweighting several of the MAG7 stocks that make up such a top-heavy amount of the tech sector as well as the communications sector. A lot of those stocks are still very globally integrated, have a lot of sales overseas. It's looking more domestically, sometimes at e-commerce companies that do a lot of buying and selling within the United States, some AI-related companies.

companies that are doing a lot of buying and selling in the United States. But it's really kind of reweighting the tech sector and that top 10 looks very different in a fund like IATC than just kind of the broad tech sector. Jay, how are you currently discussing with those that are allocating towards your funds, the long term versus short term? How many are wanting to commit at this moment if they are worried about what the next headline seems to be bringing?

It's really about getting granular and taking that long-term view. We have seen a lot of investors, again, are really kind of looking for what's the targeted exposure that they have the highest conviction in over the next five to 10 years. And look, you get compensated for taking equity risk, and we're seeing equity risk play out in the markets today. So if you can take that long-term view, get granular on the themes like artificial intelligence that people believe in over the long term,

we believe they should be rewarded over time. So in many ways, it's opportunity hunting, but it's also behavior and behavioral coaching around being invested and staying invested during turbulent times.

It's important to remind oneself that all of the things we've been spending the last two years talking about haven't ended or gone away. The AI infrastructure build out, all of the forecasts are multi-year. I guess for you, when you think about construction and you think about clients, it's your conviction on whether the trajectory we were on in 2024, particularly around AI infrastructure data center, continues. Do you feel that way?

I don't think there's a major shift here. You know, tech companies are very good at planning for the long term around these very, very, you know, capital intensive build outs. And so if you're building a data center today, it's because you believe in AI three to five years from now.

And I think what's different about this time around is you have tech companies that are flush with cash, that continue to bring in new cash through free cash flow, and they see a huge potential market in artificial intelligence. So they're excited to invest in this space. They're excited to put their capital work and they're planning for the future. You said the word cash three times there. Interesting. Data center, memory chips. You guys interested in that market?

We are. So we look at the entire AI technology stack for opportunities. And, you know, you could kind of look at the bottom of that tech stack, starting with what is the real estate that is really hosting the digital infrastructure required for artificial intelligence. On top of that are a lot of the semiconductor companies, not just GPUs, but memory, drivers. We really like that digital infrastructure area right now because that's where a lot of revenue is being channeled in artificial intelligence for the next couple of years as we see it build out of AI.

Right. Jay Jacobs of BlackRock. Really great to have you back on the program. Thank you very much. Now, coming up, former U.S. Treasury Secretary Larry Summers joins us to talk tariffs and why he expects more turbulence. A key conversation coming up here. This is Bloomberg Technology.

Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley Season 1. I just knew him as a kid. Long, silent voices from his past came forward. And he was just staring at me. And they had secrets of their own to share. Gilbert came. I'm the son of...

Jeremy Lynn Scott. I was no longer just telling the story. I was part of it. Every time I hear about my dad, it's, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil. I was becoming the bridge between a killer and the son he'd never known. If the cops and everything would have done their job properly, my dad would have been in jail. I would have never existed. I never expected to find myself in this place.

Now, I need to tell you how I got here. At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer. Bone Valley, Season 2, Jeremy. Jeremy, I want to tell you something. Listen to new episodes of Bone Valley, Season 2, starting April 9th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear the entire new season ad-free with exclusive content starting April 9th, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.

Join us in New York or via live stream on May 13th for Bloomberg's Winning the Innovation game, Modernizing IT Without Disruption event and networking reception. This event will gather executives to share experiences and provide insights into strategies for implementing groundbreaking AI, cybersecurity, and data management technologies that will transform your workplace. This program is proudly sponsored by Rocket Software. Register at BloombergLive.com slash innovation.

For our Bloomberg audiences worldwide, I'm David Weston and I'm joined now by the former U.S. Treasury Secretary Larry Summers of Harvard. Larry, thank you for being back with us. When we talked just a week ago on Wednesday, the day of the announcement of the tariffs, there was a lot yet to be determined. The markets have been through an amazing amount of volatility since then. Three down days. They're sharply up today. You've been quite explicitly critical of what President Trump has announced here. Do you feel better today because the markets are coming back?

Sure, I feel better anytime instability seems to be calming. But be not confused, there's only one reason why instability is being reduced.

And that is there's a growing hope in markets that a larger part of these policies are going to prove transitory and reversible. This does not reflect any kind of market endorsement of the approach that the president has followed.

Rather, it reflects a judgment that the president might recognize the reality that markets are telling him about, that many of his advisers are telling him about, that corporate CEOs across the country are.

are articulating that this kind of wholesale tariff policy is simply bad for economic performance. We're seeing some signs that the administration may recognize that. We're seeing signs, but do we have a better sense of the goals and the process today than we got from the Rose Garden last Wednesday?

I don't think so. I think this is fundamentally an improvisational effort. You could tell that when you knew that there was a policy based on tariff reciprocity that didn't use any data on the tariffs of other countries in figuring out how to reciprocate.

You could tell that from the blatant contradictions between what presidential advisor Navarro was saying and presidential advisor Treasury Secretary Scott Pesce was saying. You could tell that from the degree of division between close outside advisor Elon Musk and

and many members of the president's economic team. This is a policy, it's a hugely consequential policy, but by all appearances, it's being improvised on a daily basis, and that's creating huge uncertainty.

but it's only uncertain there's only uncertainty if things go in both directions and today happened to be a day when things moved in a uh positive uh direction i hope that the moves to back off these policies can continue but we'll have to see i suspect we're going to have volatile markets for some time to come and

No one can know, but my judgment is that I'd be surprised if the bottom is yet in with respect to this phase and markets. How bad could it get? Oh, I think the...

I think it's more likely than not that we're going to have a recession. And in the context of a recession, we'll see an extra two million people be unemployed. We'll see losses in household income that are $5,000 a year.

or more. We're very likely in the context of a recession to see markets reach levels significantly below

their current levels. So I think we could be looking for fairly serious economic problems. And I think it will cast a shadow forward because if we have a recession, the budget deficit will go up. The accumulated debt that we have to deal with will go up. There'll be financial distress that will affect higher risk

companies and also higher risk countries in the global economy. But David, there's a central thing to understand about this moment of economic and financial difficulty. To borrow a word from the doctors, it is our first iatrogenic recession, our first iatrogenic financial crisis.

Iatrogenic illness is when you go into the hospital and you catch an infection there. It's when the people whose job it is to make things better are the active agents of making things worse. And iatrogenic illness, staph infections and the like in hospitals is a major preoccupation for doctors. This is an iatrogenic economic challenge.

There is nothing in the outside world that is causing this challenge. It is induced by the words and deeds of President Trump and his administration.

The good news about that is it could be resolved with words and deeds of President Trump if they backed off these policy errors. I think there would be a substantial resumption of normality. But as long as a hospital maintains unsanitary conditions,

It's patients get infections when they enter. And as long as these policies are being pursued, we're going to see substantial volatility in markets, substantial recession risk, substantial damage to middle class families. So just to follow up on that, is there any remedy for the patient?

other than for the chief doctor, that is President Trump, to back off what you just described as policy errors? Is there anybody else who can save us?

Look, depending on what happens with other countries and how they handle their diplomacy, it may be easier or harder for him to back off these policies. Depending upon how the business community responds, there may be more or less ability to...

to create an environment where there's a backing off of these policies. But there's nothing complicated about this. You impose huge tax increases on households in an uncertainty-creating way that's also damaging to established business patterns.

and the economy turns downwards. There's nothing subtle or sophisticated about this. This is introductory economics. It's the kind of question that could have been on an introductory economics exam for decades. Suppose the president of the United States decides suddenly to impose a massive tariff

tax increase on products from all over the world, what will happen to the economy? And

Any B student will know that the answer to that is that it's a supply shock that raises prices and raises unemployment as well and makes the economy less efficient and adds substantially to uncertainty. This isn't some sophisticated, complicated...

thing to analyze. Larry, thank you so much for being back with us. Really appreciate it. That is former U.S. Treasury Secretary Larry Summers of Harvard. Back to you. We thank you, David Weston.

This is Bloomberg Technology.

Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley Season 1. I just knew him as a kid. Long, silent voices from his past came forward. And he was just staring at me. And they had secrets of their own to share. Gilbert King, I'm the son of...

I was no longer just telling the story. I was part of it. I was becoming the bridge between a killer and the son he'd never known. I never expected to find myself in this place.

Now, I need to tell you how I got here. At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer. Bone Valley, Season 2. Jeremy. Jeremy, I want to tell you something. Listen to new episodes of Bone Valley, Season 2, starting April 9th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear the entire new season ad-free with exclusive content starting April 9th, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.

Join us in New York or via live stream on May 13th for Bloomberg's Winning the Innovation game, Modernizing IT Without Disruption event and networking reception. This event will gather executives to share experiences and provide insights into strategies for implementing groundbreaking AI, cybersecurity, and data management technologies that will transform your workplace. This program is proudly sponsored by Rocket Software. Register at BloombergLive.com slash innovation.

Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology. I'm Caroline Hyde in New York. And I'm Ed Ludlow in San Francisco. Some markets, Caro. Yeah, let's check in on them because we're coming off of our highs. The Nasdaq 100, though, still clinging to 2.5 percentage point gain. We're seeing very few stocks in the red today as people start to buy this dip and hope that more trade deals might come. South Korea, Japan in the mix. Move on and have a look at some individual stocks.

little chip stocks that I want to shine a light on because deals are actually getting done. Marvell selling its auto-related part of the business to Infineon, the German company. We're up 6.8% on a $2.5 billion deal. Broadcom buying back its shares.

steep discount after the recent sell-off 6.7 percent high as they say they're going to be purchasing some 10 billion dollars and micron interestingly reports coming that it is looking to pass on some of those tariff costs to customers it's up two and a half percent but let's dwell on another chip company it also makes phones and plenty of other things samsung shares climbed over in london trading after south korean tech giant reported better than expected preliminary results for the fiscal first quarter it also comes of course as president trump

So the prospects for a trade deal with Seoul weren't looking good. Let's dig into it. Peter Ahlstrom is here with us still in New York. Let's go to the earnings first, the fundamentals looking good for memory in particular. Yeah, that's right. So Samsung reports its preliminary earnings right after the quarter closes. We'll get more detail later on.

at least the preliminary numbers were very good. Revenue was up 10 percent. Their operating profit was $4.4 billion, well ahead of what analysts had anticipated. There are a couple things playing into the results here. First of all, DRAM, the legacy DRAM business is taking off quite a bit. And they have a new Galaxy smartphone out there that's doing quite well at this point. So Samsung, at least at this point, is showing some progress. We know that they are

well behind in terms of AI memory chips. They're trying to play catch up with SK Hynix. They didn't give any detail on that today, but we may get it later on in the month. The memory market is very interesting in how Samsung plays it right, particularly when it relates to China, because they are catching up, but they are able to currently serve customers in China until the U.S. tightens export restrictions. Just go with that with us, Peter.

Right. Well, the U.S. administration, first the Biden administration, now the Trump administration, has been quite concerned about some of these chips that are going into China, being sold into China. NVIDIA chips, of course, is sort of the top of the list there. But also, the high-end memory chips are a concern for them. So SK Hynix makes the high-bandwidth memory chips, the HBM chips that are going into China. They have been affected by this. Samsung could also get affected by this in the future. And the goal

the administration is trying to cut off some of these AI capabilities that China is trying to build. In the meantime, of course, those domestic players are competing and they're trying to gain some ground back. China, Samsung in particular, has been struggling because they do have customers in China they want to be able to sell to. But most importantly for them, they want to get verified by NVIDIA so that they can sell the HBM chips that NVIDIA needs for their AI capabilities.

Bloomberg's Peter Elstrom, thank you very much. Let's get more on how technology investors are reacting to all of the market turbulence. Beth Kindig, lead tech analyst at IO Fund joins us now. And Beth, really grateful to have you on the show. I enjoy the kind of breadth of your commentary on X, actually. Some of it tariff and markets focused, a lot of it actually the underlying technology. But given the markets that we find ourselves in right now, what's your latest thinking on the technology sector and how you're going to play the uncertainty of a trade war?

Yeah, look, nobody holding stocks right now is comfortable, especially tech investors. Tech will overweight impact from tariffs, whether it's the electronics, the data center equipment. We're talking hundreds of billions in imports every year that could be impacted.

Ultimately, though, the market can top on good news and it can bottom on bad news, meaning we're seeing SMH semiconductor ETF up 5% despite the threat of up to 100% or higher tariffs in China. Not confirmed, but we've seen some activity over the weekend in that regard. What that means is we are positioned for a bounce.

We think that we're in extreme oversold conditions. If you look at the sentiment reading, retail has almost never been so bearish. Retail is more bearish than COVID and more bearish than 2009. What that means is the market is oversold. We are positioned for a bounce, and that bounce may or may not

continue onward, meaning we still remain cautious even with positioning for a bounce. So forgive me, Beth, have we or have we not hit the bottom in tech? We have unlikely. It is not likely we've hit the bottom through all of the damage that was done last week and the damage that we could see this year.

So Beth, we turn to you when IO Fund has outperformed most benchmarks for the last couple of years and indeed a lot of the other tech-focused funds. Do you make the most of these valuations, just go very focused on individual names and just withstand the volatility? Or do you wait for a better outcome? Do you wait for more clarity from president?

It's a little bit of both. We layered in on Friday and Monday. The reason is it's clear to us probability favors that balance. That balance is very important for a tech investor because of the damage that was done. You have to capture that balance if you're going to compete on an annual basis like my firm. And therefore, capturing that balance is key. De-risking

on a bounce rather than during capitulation is everything to a tech investor, being very strategic. So de-risking on that bounce is key to the performance this year.

It's interesting, Scott Besson, of course Treasury Secretary, has time and time again said this isn't a MAGA problem, this is a MAG7 problem. The NASDAQ peaked back in February, this is actually about deep-seek. And to that point, we've seen pressure on chip stocks running into this tariff crisis. We were worried about an AI infrastructure bubble. How much have you been paying credence to that or was the market getting that wrong too?

It is a Mag7 problem. We hold very few Mag7 stocks because of the outsized spending on CapEx. You have to think about, is the schedule for depreciation on servers, is that even accurate? Is it really going to be a five to six year depreciation schedule? That matters because if it's not and it's more brief due to these Blackwell systems coming out and then Blackwell Ultra and then Rubin,

You know, we can see more effects on the bottom line, meaning they're the customers. That is not typically the way the Mag 7 was constructed. And that piece is important to understand. There's a shift in how big tech was the producer, but now it's the customer.

I saw you say on X the other day that AI needs compute, and when it comes to compute, NVIDIA is the gold standard. So if you don't hold many Mag7 names, do you hold NVIDIA? How do you see NVIDIA's ability to continue its trajectory in this environment?

NVIDIA is the exception. NVIDIA is the beneficiary from all of this CapEx. Very low China exposure. There's a semiconductor exemption to the tariffs. Of course, there would still be some impact, but by far the safest stock in the market today is NVIDIA. Currently trading more than 5% higher. Beth Kindig, great to have you on the show. Lead tech analyst at the IO Fund. We thank you.

We have some breaking news for you at the moment, and this time it's not on tariffs. But we understand that hackers have indeed been spying on 100 bank regulators' emails for over a year. Ed, we're going to be delving into the details. I know you've got the story in front of you at the moment, but hackers spying on 100 bank regulators' emails for over a year just showing the extent to which technology has been lapsing for key overseers here.

Yeah, the Bloomberg report that cites sources basically says that the hackers had access to the deliberations of regulators who are deliberating information about the banks they oversee. Clearly, it's a deep report. 150,000 emails from June 2023 until they were discovered earlier this year. We'll get with the team that broke that story. It seems like a big one that's starting to have repercussions from Bloomberg Tech Newsroom.

There's a lot more happening in the world as well. Elon Musk took to X to criticize President Trump's top trade advisor, Pete Navarro, calling him, quote, a moron.

This was in response to Navarro's comment that Musk is a car assembler rather than a car manufacturer. That also comes after Elon Musk's younger brother, Kimball Musk, criticized President Trump's tariff strategy, calling them a "structural permanent tax" on the American consumer. Bloomberg's Cara Coulson is in Austin, Texas, and has the fortunate job of untangling all of that. I think we should start with the feud between Navarro and Musk. And actually, if you look at the data, third party or Tesla's own,

There is support for what Elon Musk is saying that vehicles built in the United States, source components from the United States are assembled and manufactured in the United States sort of nose to tail. Yeah, definitely. You know, this is something that Tesla's been promoting for a while. They say promotions frequently in the last few months that are, you know, Tesla's are American made. They know this is something consumers are looking for as they get concerned about tariffs. And it's something they've been touting. And

Elon Musk hasn't directly said anything on Trump's policies, but he has been speaking out against tariffs. He's been saying that Trump's tariffs as well will impact Tesla. They're not completely insulated, even as he acknowledges that Tesla is, in his opinion, more American-made than other cars.

Cara, what we're trying to pass here is what is happening in an administration and a White House level and who has the ear of President Trump. And on tariffs, it feels as though Elon has not. In fact, he goes as far as to not just call Peter Navarro a moron, but calling him dumber than a sack of bricks. I mean, it feels as though he's pushing against the flow, the trajectory here.

Yeah, over the weekend, Elon Musk did push back on just the concept of tariffs alone. He was saying he wants more of a free open trade between Europe and the US. He is definitely more pro free market, and it's something he has said before in the past. And while Tesla was initially seen as kind of an initial winner in the tariffs where it'd be less affected, executives have said there is expected impact from tariffs on Tesla.

Cara Carlson, breaking it down, we thank you. Meanwhile, let's just think about President Trump's tariff uncertainty, changing the minds of some of the biggest bulls on Wall Street. Dan Ives, Wedbush, slashing his Apple and Tesla price targets, writing, these tariffs are so absurd, scary, uncertain to anyone that has a basic understanding of the global supply chain and the way U.S. tech companies operate and U.S. consumers live their daily lives. Dan Ives joins us now. You also wrote in your Tesla piece that Elon Musk needed to...

step up he needed to lead is this him leading is this in stepping up pushing back against peter navarro look i mean it's our view must basically needs to leave the government and be i mean because if you look at the brand damage

You just cannot deny it. I mean, I think there's 20% actually permanent brand damage in Europe, 10% at least in the U.S. So when he's pushing back, because look, Musk, he's getting calls from Fremont, from Austin, from what he's hearing in China and in Germany. No one's probably more plugged in along with, you know, Nadella and along with Jensen, obviously Cook, than Musk. So he knows tariffs are

It's a disaster across the board. And it's our view. It sends the tech industry back a decade if these tariffs actually hit. And on the other hand, Tesla is more insulated than the others on tariffs, right? So what I tried to distinguish in your note is those forecasts you gave on demand loss. You said 10% globally, but more severe in China and the EU. That's not really a tariffs issue, right? It's a reputational issue, right?

of Musk's association with Trump. Just explain your modeling. Yeah, I mean, Ed, unfortunately, Tesla's become a political symbol around the world, but in a bad way, right? I mean, if any frustration toward Trump, dude, tariffs, globally, there's one symbol. It's Tesla.

And, you know, Musk obviously went into the government, you know, in terms of Doge and everything we've seen. And we've talked about it. It's at least a hundred hour overhang in the stock. And I think when you look at trying to model it, there's brand damage, there's tariff issues, and you're just trying to take stabs at it. I mean, they just came off of a disaster one queue delivery number. And, you know, as someone that's been such a long-term bull, and remember, we didn't

lower our rating, still maintain our bullishness on autonomous, on Roblox, and the future of Tesla. In my view, it's been a sad few months to watch it because it's brand destruction by the hour, by the day. Can't deny it.

Dan, can't deny it, but as you say, you're still overweight and you still see maybe 28% upside from here. So what is the recovery process here? Because it takes a long time to build brand and very quick to destroy it. There's three things. One, he has to leave government. So when you look at what's happened with Navarro, investors are wondering, is this the first step in terms of stage left? And we've talked about it's a key 60, 90 days ahead. Two...

If that happens, you have brand damage. Some of that's permanent, but it's a scar, it's a black eye, it stitches, but it doesn't change the long-term view of Tesla in terms of autonomous robotics and the broader future. The third thing is it's investors' understanding, like what the game plan is here. You have BYD that's rising as a competitor globally. And you can't in rose-colored glasses say that they're not.

You need a CEO, Musk, in that seat as CEO of Tesla. You can't be spending 5%, 3%, 2% of your time there and the rest of the government. That's been the frustration because Musk is Tesla. Tesla is Musk. But what does he bring out to compete against BYD when he doesn't want to erode from a price point? Everyone feeling that it would be cannibalization if he brought back a much lower priced

competitor to a Model 3, for example, where does he go? The Cybertruck isn't selling. But our view is that 90% of the value of Tesla going forward is autonomous robotics. It's about unsupervised FSD in Austin. It's about launching everything, when you look into next year's cybercaps, that they could do a core scale in production. And I think that's why, when you look at these tariffs, Tesla...

Apple, GM, go across the board. It cuts the legs off of U.S. tech. And that's been why it's just such a very frustrating, uncertain time. Dan, I got a question from the audience on X from Mark Monroe who asks if tech companies are removing guidance. I think he means will they remove guidance? Oh, yeah. I mean, any tech company that gives guidance, I'd be shocked.

Because right now it's blindfolded darts. You don't know where guidance is going to go. But it speaks a point. We're going to have rallies. You see number cuts. We've tried to cut some numbers. Other analysts have as well. But I mean, you put these tariffs in when it comes to China and Taiwan, then ultimately you're going to have to toss out two Q numbers. You're going to toss out three Q numbers. Street, assuming it's some sort of three to six month trade battle,

then they'll basically look at what did 2026 numbers look like. And that's how investors are going to ultimately, when you look at worst case, base case, best case, all the things that we're talking about with investors around the world over the last 72 hours, that's where you look at Nvidia. What's baked in? What's baked into Microsoft? Worst, base, bear case. Dan Ives of WebBish. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

We've got some breaking news crossing the Bloomberg terminal. The Supreme Court has backed President Trump for now in the issue of federal worker firings. It's a case that's being discussed as part of the broader initiative of layoffs and voluntary redundancies, voluntary that Doge is undertaking. The wording of the headline is for now, Caroline, indicating, I think, that it's a temporary judgment and that there's more to come. I'm waiting for the story to hit.

the terminal as well, but it's one that we're watching closely. There's another big story happening in our world on Bloomberg technology, and that's private markets. It was supposed to be the year for IPOs among venture capitalists and startups. Instead, President Trump's tariffs have put a pause on any ambitions to go public with the likes of StubHub and Klarna pulling back on their plans. Bloomberg's Katie Roof joins us. You summarized the anxiety that's out there, the panic,

brilliantly in the peace out overnight. I have to be honest, when I woke up, I got text messages from both sides. Some said paralysis, some said there's some panic happening, but people are moving. Summarize your reporting.

Sure. Other than Trump's strongest supporters, most of Silicon Valley, most VCs we talked to were very upset about this. You know, basically there's two issues here. It's delaying some much needed IPOs due to market volatility and then also could bring higher costs to some of their businesses depending on the business line. But as you know, there haven't been a lot of IPOs for three years and this is supposed to be that quarter. LPs.

getting pretty anxious and leaning on the VCs, Katie. But what about current funding rounds? Are there any areas where, particularly in the AI space, companies are still able to raise?

Sure. And so normally there's a lag effect, you know, from public market volatility to private markets where it takes a few months for things to trickle down at each stage. But, you know, I think it partly also depends on the sector. Obviously, if there's a direct business impact, if anything, you know,

if their revenue could be hit by this, if their costs could go up because of this due to international trade, those things are gonna have a tougher time fundraising right now, or at least at the terms that they thought they could get.

But if it's something that's not directly impacted by the tariffs, then you may see things remain relatively constant from a fundraising perspective, unless there's a broader issue with the markets, although it seems like it's kind of resolved a little bit so far.

Jake Saper, who you quote from Emergence Capital, we're trying to triage and figure out. Katie Roof, thanks so much for that story. Let's talk about one area where a company is potentially making moves. Billionaire Michael Novogratz has got his wish. His crypto conglomerate, Galaxy Digital Holdings Limited, has received permission for a direct listing on the Nasdaq Stock Exchange.

Finally, his company can trade in the United States as well as in Canada, where we're assuming trading is expected to actually happen pretty shortly, Ed, after a special shareholder meeting on May 9th. The company has said all of this in a press release.

This is the U.S. Justice Department. We'll limit the kinds of cryptocurrency crimes it will investigate and prosecute. We've got a memo the DOJ said it will focus on cases related to terrorism, drug cartels, victimizing investors and other limited categories. One story will continue to track Caro throughout the year.

Yeah, all things on crypto news. Crypto show coming up 12 p.m. Eastern time. But that does it for this edition of Bloomberg Technology. Check in on the markets as we continue to rally today. This is Bloomberg Technology.

Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley Season 1. Every time I hear about my dad, it's, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil. I was becoming the bridge between Jeremy Scott and the son he'd never known. At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer. Listen to new episodes of Bone Valley Season 2 starting April 9th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.