Tesla Under Pressure, Big Tech Bolsters S&P 500
42:47 Share

This is an iHeart Podcast. Discover how one of China's largest financial services companies serves 240 million customers with AI-powered solutions. Hear from Ping An's co-CEO and chief scientist. We're a goldmine of data integrated to provide tailored solutions to our customers. Public domain tax 3.2 trillion tokens, 7.5 billion images. Tune in to our technology-powered growth podcast.

Find it at group.pingan.com, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts.

Developers like you are building the future, but you need the right tools to move fast and go further, right? That's where Microsoft comes in. With tools like GitHub Copilot, VS Code, and Azure AI Foundry, you have everything you need to push the limits and bring your ideas to life faster. And with security, compliance, and responsible AI built in, you can focus on what matters most, building the next big thing. Learn more at developer.microsoft.com.

From the heart of where innovation, money, and power collide. In Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow. ♪♪

Live from New York, this is Bloomberg Technology. Coming up, trade tensions, they ramp higher. As US and China accuse one another of violating recent agreements, we bring you the tech impact. That's as big tech stocks have actually been back in the driver's seat, outperforming the S&P 500 for eight consecutive weeks. But

But Tesla, it's under pressure with sales falling aggressively in France to a three-year low. Can Musk's return from Doge turn it around? But first, let's check in on these markets, which whipsaw on the day we were in risk aversion mode a little bit earlier and now we tread back water

to flat. Remember, May was a stellar month for the Nasdaq up 9% for the S&P 500 having one of its best Mays in years. But we are up just a tenth of a percent as we try and shake off what is anxiety around trade tensions. And we get a dose of manufacturing reality as manufacturing numbers come in weak. Looking at the Golden Dragon Index, this is, of course, the Nasdaq Golden Dragon. Looking at some of the tech giants in China, that too recovers up a tenth of a percent. We will

to individual movers because there are some laggards out there and notably Tesla has been off today more broadly and we are going to keep a keen eye on what's happening with 2.7% to the lower as we worry about sales in France. We'll dig into that later in the show. BYD, this is the wrong ticker, we'll bring you what BYD shares have been doing. Their depository receipts have been basically trading flat but here we have it off by about two tenths of a percent. It was low

in Chinese trading that as the competition, fierce competition, it's getting some criticism from the government itself and government-related entities. But focusing more broadly on China, not just the EV sector, we're going to look at what has been happening with the Golden Dragon Index. Look, as we say, just recovering, but after the last three days, it has been having, let's call it a plummet.

Following remarks now we know of President Trump saying that Beijing has violated trade talks, more pain could be in store, of course, as China issues its own claims that the US has breached recent deal itself. Bloomberg's Mike Sheppard joins us. Look, the tentative agreements of Switzerland are unwinding themselves somewhat.

Well, they really are, Cara. We are seeing this detente that had been achieved in Geneva just a few weeks ago rapidly fade away. On Friday, we saw President Donald Trump accuse Beijing of violating the spirit of that understanding without offering too many specifics. But his trade advisor, Jameson Greer, helped fill in the blanks. And the U.S. concerns seem to center on what they see as Beijing's failure to lift

barriers on exports of rare earth minerals to the U.S. quickly enough per whatever was discussed in Switzerland. On the flip side, though, we are seeing China come back very strong today, accusing the U.S. of violating its promises under that agreement with some recent steps. And we saw those with the American move to unveil new guidelines that are coming on

AI chip export controls. And that included a warning to U.S. allies against using Huawei's Ascend chip, which is a challenge, of course, to NVIDIA. The U.S. has also moved to restrict exports and sales of chip design software to China, which is a big deal for China's own AI

and tech ambitions. And then finally, the icing on the cake, of course, the revocation of Chinese student visas, all of those things in China's bill of goods against the U.S. this morning. And this raises questions about whether Xi Jinping and Donald Trump will actually speak by phone, as Donald Trump has said he would like to. And Mike, what's so notable is that two of those moves, of the three that you outline, are completely tech-focused. Is it going to be technology that remains the eye of the storm when this hits a tap?

Well, it's either the eye of the storm, Carol, or the thing that is driving the direction of the storm. Because remember, this comes on top of years of escalating restrictions on exports to China imposed by the U.S. and really also twisting allies' arms to take part in those as well. Remember, this is not just semiconductor exports. It's also sales of

chip making machinery to Beijing. All of this is designed to curb China's ambitions in areas like artificial intelligence. And this is really starting to take a toll in a way politically between Washington and Beijing. And we're seeing tech emerge as this flashpoint and could be what unravels whatever understanding may have emerged

in Geneva. Now, there is a lot of time before the 90-day pause expires, and the two sides still could find a way back to the bargaining table and to maybe have that call between the two leaders. But right now, the direction of travel is not heading in that way, at least from what we are seeing, Caro. Mike Shepard, breaking it down, we thank you. And look, let's stick.

with how markets are reacting, but more broadly, how they should be thinking about this trade uncertainty. An expert is Liza Tobin, Managing Director at Garneau Global. We turn to your years of advising government, the CIA, and of course, more broadly, the field of enterprise. How bad is this looking? How much are we returning to escalation now?

Hi, Caroline. Great to be on with you. And I agree with Michael Shepard that the honeymoon we saw coming out of Geneva a few weeks ago is now shattered. And we're back in this cycle of escalation between the U.S. and China. And I agree with you that at the center of this is technology. What's interesting about China's very strenuous reaction to the U.S. export controls on the Huawei Ascend chip is their propaganda apparatus has long been arguing that the U.S. export controls are

ineffective and that China can work around them. But I think the level of emphasis they're putting on this, you know, the volume at which they're really screaming for these things to be removed indicates just how effective and how painful they are.

on China. So we're going to be seeing to see how, watch to see how the U.S. reacts going forward. China is trying to press the U.S. very hard to make more concessions. After Geneva, the tariffs came down significantly, but really at the heart of

of those tensions were China's export control on rare earths and then the U.S. export controls on AI chips and related tooling. Let's go to AI chips first before we get to rare earths because there's not only the criticism coming from China but some U.S. companies. I just think of what Jensen Wang was telling our own Ed Ludlow last week how much basically we're forcing China to innovate and how he longs to be able to access that market. Do you ever see that happening?

You know, I think it's all about the scale of compute that's needed. China can always find workarounds through smuggling, through making some of their own chips, but it's really all about scaling. And as you talk about on your show a lot, really being able to make enough chips to supply the rapidly escalating demands of compute in this age of AI is at issue. And that's where the U.S. still has this very large lead, just being able to scale up.

So if China is able to extract any additional concessions from the U.S. so that they can get more chips legally, that's going to help them kind of shrink the gap faster. However, if the U.S. keeps these export controls in place and enforces them strictly and gets allies and partners on board on some of the tooling, some of the aspects where countries like Japan and the Netherlands interfere,

and Germany are strong, then this gap between the US and China in compute stands to lengthen over the coming months and years. But both sides have chips on the table here that they can play and play hard. I was just at the Reagan National Economic Forum on Friday where there was a lot of anxiety just how confident Chinese leadership is at the moment that they too can fight back. Liza, what about the rare earths signals? How much pain could that levy on US industry itself as well?

We know that the auto manufacturers and the defense manufacturers were... They came crying to the U.S. government before the Geneva talks and said that these things are starting to impose pain and starting to impose work stoppages. And that's something that...

It's a gray rhino. I mean, the U.S. national security establishment has known about this dependency on China for rare earth processing for years, but they haven't come up with a solution at scale.

But I think what was interesting over the last month is that China has broken the glass on actually using this coercive instrument. It's actually now ratcheting up pressure. Xi Jinping has an appetite for leverage, and now that he knows he has this leverage over the U.S., you're going to see him pushing again and again to kind of recycle this leverage and try to extract leverage.

more concessions from the U.S. But rather than bending over and giving China more concessions over the last couple of weeks, you've seen them doubling down with this empowered Commerce Department strengthening and broadening the export controls. So you don't expect the U.S. to blink in this moment? What

advice do you give to the private sector right now as to how tough this could get for access to rare earths and indeed in the flip side if you're a Chinese company access to US chips? Well I think that the private sector needs to remember that this isn't just a competition about tech and trade. I mean tariffs and technology export controls of course are incredibly important to markets but perhaps even more important is to watch

the geopolitical tensions that are unfolding in the Indo-Pacific, around Taiwan, in the South China Sea. Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth just on Saturday at the Shangri-La Forum was warning that a Taiwan crisis could be imminent. And we know that China

frequently has military drills, kind of these practice exercises around Taiwan and in the South China Sea. And it's had the habit lately of not announcing these in advance. So it's not giving markets a heads up that these are going to happen. Why does it do that? It wants to preserve

ambiguity. If outside observers aren't sure if this is just a drill or if it's something more, you know, an actual rehearsal for something like a blockade, that's very worrisome because it shrinks the window of warning. And that's something that we're watching very closely at

Garno Global, kind of the links between these technology export controls, tariffs, and the potential for some kind of supply chain disrupting crisis around Taiwan that could prevent the chips from getting out of Taiwan, perhaps for a couple of weeks or longer. Well, that's crucial to our audience. So thanks for making that link. Lisa Tobin, of course, Managing Director at Garno Global. Great to have some time with you. Coming up,

Now, let's talk about chips more, but Broadcom's results this week, they're likely to actually show AI demand is still booming. We're going to talk about what's expected, how it could impact the wider market. This is Bloomberg Technology. Remember when a single technology glitch could bring an entire workday to a standstill? I'm Mark Banfield, Chief Commercial Officer at TeamViewer. Today, most technical issues are recurring. If you know the patterns, these issues can be remediated before they impact your business.

One major UK retailer discovered a single point of sale outage cost them around $1 million in lost sales during a single lunchtime. Now, using TeamViewer's digital workplace platform, the same company is able to identify and fix those issues before they even happen. But proactive troubleshooting isn't just about the incremental improvements. It's about fundamentally reimagining how work happens for everyone.

And the companies that move first get competitive advantages in terms of efficiency, productivity, and innovation. To find out more, visit bloomberg.com forward slash team viewer.

The world is built on code. From the apps we use every day to the systems powering industries, developers like you are the architects of tomorrow. But let's be real. The road to innovation can get a little tricky. You need the right tools to move fast, but you also need a community to help you go further. That's where Microsoft comes in. Microsoft has the tools to help you move at lightning speed, like GitHub Copilot, VS Code, and a ton of AI resources to keep you on the cutting edge.

But here's the best part. You can build with confidence, knowing that Microsoft security and compliance are already taken care of. No more worrying about vulnerabilities or threats while you focus on your craft.

And with Azure AI Foundry, you can build your way. The future is yours to build, no strings attached. From ready-to-code tools to full flexibility, it's all in one place. The future's in your hands. So learn more at developer.microsoft.com.

Let's talk about how the same tech giants that contributed to the S&P 500's decline in April, they are now driving the recovery in U.S. equities. Just take Nvidia. It put a bow on a better-than-expected earnings season for big tech last week by delivering a strong outlook for revenue despite U.S. restrictions on sales of its chips to China.

This is, as we expect, earnings from Broadcom this week. You'll see the shares are also trading higher. Bloomberg's Ryan Blastellica has been writing about how the Magnificent Seven in particular have helped bounce back of our lows. Some phenomenal recovery numbers.

Hey, thanks for having me. So this earnings season was a real test for big tech, especially given just how uncertain the backdrop has become, given tariffs, given all sorts of geopolitical tensions, given concerns about AI spending and the ROI from AI. And I would say that broadly speaking, this group passed with flying colors. I'd say the notable exception was Apple, which is dealing with a number of its own sort of idiosyncratic issues. But

The major companies like Microsoft, Nvidia, Meta, Alphabet, quite strong across the board showing pretty positive trends. And these are all companies that have allowed the market to really recover off the low that we saw early in April. It's interesting that we're not back to our record highs. We're actually inching in on them, Ryan. Meanwhile, looking at the S&P 500, the valuation story, that's starting to get a little dicey, right, when you're looking at magnificent seven names.

Yeah, so I'd say these names got pretty cheap by a lot of metrics in the whole tariff sell-off in early April. They have come back quite dramatically. I think Nvidia is up something like 45% or so since that low. So these are pretty remarkable gains and it has come back in the valuation. But I would say

sort of the countering argument to this is growth is expected to remain pretty strong for a lot of these companies. And if you look at something like the PEG ratio, they are all trading at fairly modest ratios on that metric. So the valuations have come back some, but the growth that was just affirmed in these most recent reports, also pretty positive.

We're looking at the moment of how pricey perhaps they are from a price to forward-looking earnings perspective, at least. Bloomberg's Rand Vestelica, it's great to have you on as always. Let's get even more of a take here, and particularly on AI demand, what it means for certain companies about to give us their numbers. Angelo Zeno is with us, VP and Senior Equity Analyst over at CFRA Research. Look, we think about how NVIDIA helped the market recover. We saw the numbers looking good. What about Broadcom as well? We're still going to get AI optimism there?

Yeah, so thanks for having me, Caroline. And I think, yeah, to your point, I think it's going to be very strong. We're looking for top-line growth of about 20% here for the April quarter. And listen, I think when you kind of look overall...

the trends that we've seen here over the last couple of weeks or since Q1 earnings season, really starting with Alphabet and Microsoft at the start of earnings season up until NVIDIA last week, the trend on the compute side of things is, I think, much stronger than anybody had anticipated and really something that Jensen Wong last week really predicted

pounded the table on. So when you kind of think about the drivers here, specifically for the AI semi names here over the next couple of years, it really is going to be tied to compute and the higher demand for compute is going to drive higher capital spending plans, right? Which is what we saw during Q1 earnings season. So we think those trends remain intact here for Broadcom specifically. They've got about a 60-40 split in semis versus software.

So the semi side will continue to drive that demand but software shouldn't be ignored because the profitability there and growth continues to be very good. I mean we're expecting strong things from Broadcom. You too, look your top semiconductor names are Nvidia and Broadcom, AMD, Marvell. I'm looking at how much some of those names have already

driven the S&P 500 recovery. A great chart from Ryan's story. She says that Nvidia makes up 12% basically the S&P 500's rebound since April, but swiftly after them was Microsoft that you named as being a winner of late, Broadcom some 5%. But is the valuation getting a little too rich now given the amount of geopolitical anxiety we're just talking about with Liza Tobin?

Yeah, I mean, I think as far as the valuation is concerned, you know, it's not as attractive as it was four to six weeks ago. But I will tell you this, the valuations just got, you know, just hit, you know, basement level values. I mean, you were talking about NVIDIA at one point trading about 17, 18 times on our 2026 estimate. They're now closer to about 24, 25 times.

on 2026 expectations. And I will tell you this, the visibility, again, is improving here. It has improved over the last couple of weeks, whether it be on the trade side of things, improving commentary on trade, or whether it be, you know, just from the reiteration in terms of

cap expense plans for some of these hyperscalers. Now, I will say, as far as what to look out for here on the geopolitical side of things, there are a lot of moving parts here over the next couple of weeks. Obviously, we want to hear about the U.S.-China discussions. But as far

as semis are concerned, there's a 232 semiconductor investigation that is ongoing right now. We expect to get more clarity in terms of what that's going to look like as far as tariffs are concerned here over the next two months or so. So it's wait and see mode, but our view is you're going to see a permanent tariff on the semiconductor industry when that gets unveiled. Our base case right now is about a 25% tariff. What about the smartphone?

because actually Apple has contributed to the reprieve in the S&P 500. It's one of your top names for hardware. But boy, we're wondering whether it's going to get individual tariffs of 25% landed on it, not to mention maybe Samsung gets the same, though. Yeah, so we're not looking for an individual tariff on that side of things, but our view here is they fall under the national security umbrella of the 232 semiconductor investigation, similar to many other hardware names that are right now...

exempt from a lot of the tariffs. But that said, if we're assuming something along the lines of a 25 percent base tariff or the 232, that would imply that Apple probably has to increase the price of its iPhone 17 this fall. Our view is probably along the lines of at least $50 or so. So again, we have to wait and see to see how all this stuff really plays itself out.

on the geopolitical side of things, but our view is there's going to be some sort of permanent tariff that goes into effect for the hardware companies and specifically Apple. And Apple, we think, is best positioned to offset some of those higher tariffs because of their brand recognition and because of their pricing power. So Angelo, if an investor doesn't have the exposure they'd like in these names, should they buy at this point?

I mean, I think that's a good question. You know, we look at it right now in the sense that we're looking more for a near-term, you know, digestion period. The dangerous thing with that is you just don't know what you're going to gain on a day-in, day-out basis because of the geopolitical environment right now. So if you don't own any of these names right now,

Our view is you do want to buy some of these AI semi-oriented names because they are going to really drive the earnings potential for the tech sector here over the next two to three years, specifically NVIDIA and Broadcom as well as some of the other smaller names. But NVIDIA and Broadcom would kind of be two of the top names with the best visibility out there. And even if you see some of these negative headwinds, whether it be tied to the 232 semiconductor investigation or something on the trade side of things,

Ultimately, we think this stuff works itself out and the earnings potential is so great that two to three years down the road, these stocks should be significantly higher than where they are now. And we get those earnings from Broadcom on Thursday after the bell. Angelo Zeno, a busy week ahead. CFRA Research, we thank you.

Samsung, well it's nearing a wide-ranging deal to invest in Perplexity AI and put search technology from the AI startup at the very forefront of the South Korean company's devices. According to people familiar, the two companies are already in talks to preload Perplexity's app and assistant on upcoming Samsung devices. New Meg's Seth Fiegemann joins us for more on the story. And we knew that they struck this deal with Motorola. Samsung ongoing conversations.

How deeply intertwined will they become? Yeah, I think this is even more expansive than Motorola. With Motorola, it's about them being preloaded on devices, which matters a lot. But with Samsung, it's also integrating into its assistant product, into its browser, and of course, just preloading on Samsung devices. Generally, if you're Google right now, I think you'd be sitting up a little bit straighter right

Right now there's a big difference between being preloaded and the default service, which is what Google has paid for for years and quite expensively. But this is a step in that direction. And given the antitrust scrutiny on Google, I would be a little bit concerned. I mean, of course, that antitrust discussion of what ultimately might be the policies they have to enact to appease the judge, I mean, that wrapped up on Friday. Analysts are

are deeply concerned about what all of this means for Alphabet. How much does this also depend on Perplexity getting some money from Samsung? Yeah, I think that's part of the broader tie-up here. So we have previously reported that Perplexity is close to raising about $500 million, like a $14 billion valuation. Samsung could be one of the larger investors in that deal, and that strikes as part of a much larger tie-up between these two companies. How does that $14 billion...

stack up because we've become some numb to these figures because it's enormous over at OpenAI. It's one of the largest AI players out there right now, but still this is a really competitive environment. Not only are they going up against Google, but going up against OpenAI and others who are moving into real-time search, but

being more deeply integrated into devices that millions of people use, that is a really big leg up in that race. And people have loved Perplexity in many ways because it was one of the first that offered you where the information was coming from. But they've had their own copyright issues as well, right? That's true. I think Perplexity's main thing, they have great design. It's not so much that they've built a better model than OpenAI or Google, but they've figured out how to package it in a really compelling way. That seems to be drawing fans, not just from consumers, but from the hardware companies. How soon could this all be announced? As soon as this year, for devices maybe into next year.

OK, we'll keep an eye out for all the unfolding events. Seth Lieberman, we appreciate it. Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology. I'm Caroline Hyde in New York. A quick check on these markets because

May was a stellar month for the Nasdaq. Today we bounce off of our lows, but the anxiety remains. What about the pulling back from China and the US in terms of those tentative agreements made in Switzerland? The progress seems to be on the line. Many are worrying about that at the moment. Dig into some of the names. I want to shine a light on one Chinese EV player, of course. We've got to keep an eye on BYD. Depository receipts doing better than they did trade in Hong Kong, at least. But under pressure is indeed the Chinese government.

Tries to hint at BYD that you're competing too hard in our country. You're racing to the bottom in terms of price or to boost your numbers. Will they pull back a little bit from that? But Tesla are up by 3%. This is the numbers are woeful for sales in May in France. They're down 67%, just 721 cars.

in the whole of France. All of this comes, though, as Elon Musk officially departs the White House after running Doge over there, at least as many would say he was running it. Wentbush Securities Managing Director Dan Ise writing this weekend that this is, quote, music to the ears of Tesla shareholders with a crucial few months ahead. Dan Ise joins us now. And boy, those French numbers really show what the crucial few months mean. Can Elon steer this the other way?

Look, I mean, obviously the leader is back, right? I mean, Musk is Tesla, Tesla is Musk. But I believe it's really about autonomous. I mean, as we go into Austin in June, you go into the robotics future, that's going to be a key part of the value of Tesla. It's how we get to a $2 trillion value.

valuation but when you look at Europe, you look at US, you look at China, I think Musk is going to start to turn that around. I think that's where investors are starting to factor in. Not necessarily what's happening next month or two but a rebound in the second half of the year. Okay so stomach for the near term these probably remaining poor numbers the new refreshed Model Y isn't cutting it it seems it is more the political backlash but you think ultimately the

technology is going to outweigh a brand issue that they've had. Yeah, I mean, look, meaning you've talked about it before, I believe 90% of the future value is autonomous and robotics.

You know, look, in terms of margins, delivery, growth, that's obviously very important to near-term numbers. But I do believe streets factoring in, you start to see a rebound second half of the year. You have a recommitted must, clearly. And I think when you look to the future, I mean, this along with NVIDIA, I believe the most disruptive technology companies in the world. And then who's driving the software piece? Of course, it's Palantir. But why?

Is Tesla clearly going to be such a leadership in autonomous when Waymo is already busy doing it? And there is a difference in the technology here with Waymo going all in on LiDAR and a very different tactic coming from Elon Musk and Tesla.

Yeah, look, Waymo clearly a head start, but I think Waymo, they're going to be at the kids' table relative to what I've cast in the coming years because of the scale and scope. Waymo's in four cities, 230,000-hour cars. Like, in other words, when I look out over the coming years...

I think you look, this is going to be dominated by Tesla in terms of cybercaps. It all starts, obviously, in the next few weeks in Austin. But no one will match the global scale and scope of Musk and Tesla. So what milestones in Austin, for example, do they need to meet? Ed Ludlow with that great reporting out last week that June 12th is going to be the date we're anticipating for it to...

already make actionable what they've been trialing on the roads thus far. What do they need to meet? How do they need to show off in the technology to work?

Look, the interventions, right? I mean, just showing that this is something that is ready for prime time because this is just the beginning of ultimately going to be 15, 20, 25 cities over the next year. And I think this is just really kind of laying the groundwork from a technology perspective, showing where Tesla is going to get to. And what I believe, look, Wemo is going to be successful and that's going to be a key sort of player.

But in terms of the global vision, who's really going to dominate? I believe it's Tesla and autonomous. And is it the cyber cab that dominates? Is it the fact that the Teslas are already out on the road and they become the autonomous vehicles? They are the ones that we don't use ourselves but lend out to the ecosystem?

Well, yeah, I mean, first of all, it's data-driven. I mean, by next year, you'll have 10 million vehicles, you know, in terms of Teslas that have been sold. Data-driven. But I do believe cybercabs, when you think about the autonomous piece, that's going to be so important. But then also it's about FSD. I mean, FSD penetration could go from 15% to 50%. Think about the margin, the software, the uplift that that's going to lead to Tesla. And that's why I believe...

they're going into their biggest chapter of growth. And that's why also it's just so important that Musk laser focus on Tesla and those days in Trump White House now rearview mirror. And you think he will be laser focused on Tesla because he's also saying I've got to be laser focused on X. He's also remaining very committed and focused on SpaceX as well. And not to mention XAI getting woven into X in the moment.

Look, it's all part of obviously the broader Musk ecosystem, but the hearts and lungs, the golden goose continues to be Tesla. And I think Musk recognizes now is the time, especially given autonomous and robotics without actually with Optimus. Tell us the $2 trillion valuation and how you actually got there from a numbers perspective.

Look, when I look at autonomous and you start to model out what could ultimately be 20% of vehicles being autonomous, you're essentially looking $3, $4 earnings eventually is going to be $13 to $15 earnings. So the whole math...

of the Tesla valuation is going to drastically change. And that's all about, like, I believe from an AI perspective, one of probably the most undervalued pure players in the market is Tesla. Now, of course, NVIDIA, Palantir, you know, a lot of the hyperscalers, Microsoft and others, continue front and center, but, you know, Tesla more and more is going to prove

that when you, especially in the physical AI play in terms of autonomous robotics, they're going to be front and center. At the moment, it's a $1 trillion market capitalization. How quickly does this $2 trillion become a reality? I think next 12 to 18 months. And I look and I think that... It's going to double in that amount of time?

That's our view. And I think it could be conservative relative to as this all plays out, because I think, again and again, Musk and Tesla underestimated. Next week, you know, late next week, when this actually, the vision starts, it's going to kick off, I think, the golden age at Tesla.

You are the highest price target, 500. Fubon's security is below you, 470. But the price targets go all the way down to just, I mean, JPMorgan at 115. So what is it that others aren't getting here? Is it just the scale of the ambition? Is it the execution? What is it when you sit around the table with other analysts and they're like, no, Dan, and you're like, no, yes.

Well, yeah, I mean, to that point, I mean, if you go back over the last five, seven, eight years, I mean, they've underestimated Tesla and Musk every time, right? So, I mean, many thought the chance of them actually coming out with an EV was unrealistic. The chance of them scaling to over a million vehicles. And we're just again and again, I think they continue to view this as an automobile company. It's a disruptive technology player, one of the best in the world, along with NVIDIA and, of course, Palantir.

Therefore, we're looking forward to the global story here. Does this have to be executed in the US? What about over in China at the moment, where we're just seeing the level of price competition and indeed the commitment that we're starting to see from BYD also into autonomous? Look, China is a key market. I mean, you're talking about over 40% of deliveries that come out of China, to keep up from a supply perspective. But it's also why too, it's important more and more Musk, that he distanced himself in terms of from Trump White House.

now start to play that 10% politician, 90% CEO, you know what we see from Apple. China's key. And I think we're going to continue to see now a rebound in China. And autonomous, Tesla's going to be a major player in that market along with BYD and others. And then let's talk robotics because I'm hearing more and more about how robotics is going to be the next area of key growth. How quickly does the optimist become the $2 trillion driver?

And remember, we're not even really factoring that in. So it speaks to our view. When you look at Optimus and as that plays out, robotics potentially could even be bigger than autonomous. And I think when it comes to physical AI, it's Tesla and NVIDIA that are leading that. I think is that all put? This is going to get in the next 12, 18, 24 months.

It's the reality, right? The scale and scope is something that Tesla has a huge advantage of. And that's why I think optimism is something that, again, I think investors are Wall Street massively underestimating. But they will be proven wrong, I think, as this all plays out. How much is supply chain going to be a bottleneck here? Because we keep talking time and time again about the rare earths control that China has. I mean, the fact that Tesla is so present in China from a supply side perspective, is that a winning formula?

Oh, I mean, you just nailed it. I think that's the key, right? Like having such a big presence. And of course, Musk has very good relationship in Beijing, you know, in terms of their footprint. That is very important. It gives them a huge advantage. And also, I think it speaks to the timing, especially in this U.S.-China negotiations. The further and further Musk distanced himself from Trump in the White House, I think is important, especially when it plays to what's happening in China.

I'm going to end on Apple because you were just talking about other companies that have been owning the space, Palantir, of course, being one that you keep mentioning within software. But what about the future of Apple right now from a supply chain perspective, from a geopolitical perspective? Because it seems as though, well, Tim Cook needs to be a little bit more politician right now, too. Yeah, but I think there's no better CEO in the world that can navigate it. He's not done very well so far.

I would disagree to the point that he's been able to navigate to India, which is actually a huge part of the Pokemon, puts him in a lot better negotiating position. And also, like, look, the chances of iPhones coming to the U.S., we continue to view as unrealistic, unless you want a $3,500 iPhone.

And Cook's another one. There's an understanding. Okay, they might have been late to the game, but the consumer AI revolution comes through Cupertino. You'll start to see that next week, WWDC. I view that as a very important event that starts this next chapter.

Dan Ives of Wedbush, some of the biggest price targets out there for Tesla and for Apple. It's always great to have you on the show. Thank you very much. Coming up, tech has become a major economic driver for New York's economy. And a new campaign is celebrating just that. We'll have more on the industry's impact and what's expected from New York Tech Week as a Bloomberg Technology. Remember when a single technology glitch could bring an entire workday to a standstill? I'm Mark Banfield, Chief Commercial Officer at TeamViewer.

Today, most technical issues are recurring. If you know the patterns, these issues can be remediated before they impact your business. One major UK retailer discovered a single point of sale outage cost them around $1 million in lost sales during a single lunchtime. Now, using TeamViewer's digital workplace platform, the same company is able to identify and fix those issues before they even happen. But proactive troubleshooting isn't just about the incremental improvements.

is about fundamentally reimagining how work happens for everyone. And the companies that move first get competitive advantages in terms of efficiency, productivity, and innovation. To find out more, visit bloomberg.com forward slash team viewer.

The world is built on code. From the apps we use every day to the systems powering industries, developers like you are the architects of tomorrow. But let's be real. The road to innovation can get a little tricky. You need the right tools to move fast, but you also need a community to help you go further. That's where Microsoft comes in. Microsoft has the tools to help you move at lightning speed, like GitHub Copilot, VS Code, and a ton of AI resources to keep you on the cutting edge.

But here's the best part. You can build with confidence, knowing that Microsoft security and compliance are already taken care of. No more worrying about vulnerabilities or threats while you focus on your craft.

And with Azure AI Foundry, you can build your way. The future is yours to build, no strings attached. From ready-to-code tools to full flexibility, it's all in one place. The future's in your hands. So learn more at developer.microsoft.com.

Time now for Talking Tech. First up, Byron Allen. Well, he's hired Mollis to find buyers for 28 local TV stations his company owns. Now, this comes as an effort to reduce debt is coming on while taking advantage of potential deregulation in the broadcast business. In a statement, Allen said, "We have received numerous inquiries. We are going to use this opportunity to take a serious look at the offers."

Plus, Meta is betting on automation for the future of ads. The social media company aims to enable brands to fully create and target ads using AI by the end of next year. Now that's according to the Wall Street Journal, citing sources. Meta's ad platform already offers some AI tools that can generate variations of existing ads.

and ABRIDGE AI, a startup that uses artificial intelligence to transcribe medical conversations, is raising $300 million in a new funding round led by Andreessen Horowitz. So all according to sources who say that the round values a Pittsburgh-based company of $5.3 billion, including the investment.

Let's bring it to New York. New York Tech Week kicks off today. The city is known for fashion and finance, and it's seen a tech boom, though, over the past decade. The sector actually made 41% of the city's net job growth since 2019. Judy Samuels is president and CEO of TechNYC. It's a nonprofit. You promote the sector and the city, and you have got...

a rather cool new campaign. We do. We're so excited about it. We're launching today with support from New York City and in partnership with Red Antler a campaign called Obviously New York. And it's really just a moment to celebrate the amazing growth of the tech industry here to really highlight all the things that we think are just going so well in New York right now. Give us the obvious statistics. Give us the obvious statistics.

statements of fact that make New York number two tech sector in the world? I mean, listen, I have so many, but just some that I'd highlight. I think that really underscore what makes New York so amazing. New York is the number one destination for college graduates. The tech sector here in New York, you talked about the 41% figure, is responsible for, creates 10 times the amount of new jobs in our local economy than 10 times more than other industries. Than finance? That's right. Since the pandemic, in the past five years. But

that speaks to the growth, that speaks to the J curve that we're on here that I think is so important. You know, it's a $700 billion industry, 25,000 startups. It's just booming here. And it's because, of course, you know,

that New York City is home to every industry and increasingly technology is just powering every other industry and the thing that we think is happening here that is unique to New York is that as the technology especially in this moment where AI is just booming you know all the your entire intro is about all these companies just growing AI building AI as the new technology evolves what happens uniquely here in New York is companies figure out

how to use it, who's going to pay for it, what it's going to actually do in practice. And that is the New York story. So give us some pinups. When you think of the icons of the New York startup scene, I think cognition AI in many ways from the underlying really leaps and bounds driving forward the technology when it comes to coding. But where else are we seeing success stories? On the AI space in particular, of course, we've got runway, which is just

an amazing New York story because it marries the creativity that is inherent to so much that happens in New York City and the AI side. It's beyond AI, of course. You've got Ramp, which is probably the fastest growing startup in New York. That's in the fintech space. We have a ton happening in digital health companies like Maven and Rowe. I mean, the list goes on and on. But again, I would underscore that all of those companies are, for the most part, building in uniquely New York industries. I love that you keep trying to do this tongue twister again and again, and you're like nailing it, and I don't want to.

I have a little bit of practice. I have a little bit of practice. But what about sort of why the campaign around it? Why this moment and need to celebrate? I think that, listen, there's a couple things happening here.

First of all, I just think people love to have fun. People love to celebrate. And right now, New York is just ascendant when it comes to tech. And we wanted to kind of put a stamp on that. We wanted to call it out. We wanted people here to feel excited. And then we want to go on the road and remind people just how great the New York tech ecosystem is. Because here's the thing.

When you meet young people, people of all ages, but especially young people, they always want to live in New York. And we need to remind them that you can come here and build a really dynamic tech career doing that. But when I think of...

the resurgence in San Francisco, basically. Generative AI, Cerebral Valley, we've covered it time and time again. Do we need to be either or? Is it mutually beneficial? Are you seeing companies building talent systems in both places? Well, I think, listen, I think you want to see tech

building and growing the economy all over the country. I think that's incredibly important. I like the way we do it here in New York. That speaks to me. That's why I'm here doing this job here. But I think to your point, we want this to happen on both coasts. We want this to happen in the middle of the country as well. I think that's really important. And, you know, we talked about a lot of homegrown New York tech companies, but OpenAI is also growing like crazy here. And a really iconic New York building downtown. They're taking more and more space. So it's going to take all

of these pieces all of this input you are like the quintessential public-private partnership because you as a nonprofit in the middle of bringing leaders within some of the iconic New York tech sector in to help give advice to the public sector and and it goes both ways what is it that the public sector is doing that helps that's a really good question so in this instance the city is putting a significant amount of money it's I think four million dollars in total behind helping to bolster the AI ecosystem part of that is helping support our

our campaign, but that's just a small part. They're doing a lot more. They have an AI Nexus program. The city is putting its money where its mouth is, and we think that's really important. The state is also doing its fair share. We've got a great program here called Empire AI, where we're really empowering academic institutions, giving them access to just the amazing quantity of compute that's incredibly hard for anyone outside of the private sector to get. So

the state, the city especially in this instance, are really doubling down to ensure that New York is a place where people want to come to build and grow tech companies, but also where people want to live.

I'm excited to see the statistics coming out for 2025. AI job postings surging 25,000 in 2024 in New York. Julie Samuels, CEO, president of TechNYC. Go enjoy Tech Week. Meanwhile, let's talk about China, because Tom Cruise's film is back on top there. Mission Impossible: The Final Reckoning posted the biggest opening for a US film in the country this year. It earned $25.2 million during its opening weekend, defying trade geopolitical tensions between Washington and Beijing.

IPO activity in the tech space, it is heating up. Digital banking start-up Chime, crypto firm Circle, both targeting strong offerings. Anthony Hughes is here to break it all down. And the way in which we see that there's strength is Circle being able to sell more shares at a higher price point, it seems.

Yes, Circle seems to be going very well. The IPO is pricing in the middle of this week, so it actually launched last week. Since that happened, Bitcoin did come off a bit, but there is certainly a lot more enthusiasm towards cryptocurrency, of course, particularly in the last month or so. We also saw Coinbase come into the S&P 500 last month, so that has contributed to a lot of enthusiasm for that cryptocurrency.

that company in particular, which is behind Stablecoins. And it's a business that some people are wondering where it fits into the scheme of things, whether it's more of like a payments company and maybe it might deserve a bit of a discount to a company like Coinbase, which has become sort of the premier sort of stock in the crypto space industry.

one of the premier stocks anyway. Well, what's interesting is that Chime, being very much sort of a retail-focused offering in the fintech space, is it going to tap into retail demand? Is it institutional demand that makes that also a success story when it finally comes to the market?

Well, I think Chime has a really interesting retail story because it's obviously appealed very much. It's got 8 million customers and it sells a debit card and a credit card and it's been very popular with a certain sort of demographic, a younger demographic. It actually reminds me a little bit of the Robin Hood IPO from years ago, from a few years back, where there's this idea that perhaps you have...

attracted a lot of customers and maybe it might not necessarily be easy to attract millions and millions more really quickly like you have in the past but when you have these younger customers you can grow with them and add on products and stuff like that so that'll be one of the real sort of

selling points, I guess, with the Chime IPO. But the company does come at a significant down round or lower valuation than it was able to attract in 2021 when we had very high valuations for all sorts of tech companies, including FinTech and this company, but also software companies and the like. So we are in a very different environment from 2021 and we have to take that into account.

Hinge Health had that as well. Of course, I need to disclose that my husband does indeed work over at Coinbase as well. Anthony Hughes, thank you very much indeed for joining us. Now that does it for this edition of Bluebeg Technology. Do not forget to check out our podcast. Find it on the terminal, as well as online on Apple, Spotify and iHeart. This is Bluebeg Technology.

Developers like you are building the future, but you need the right tools to move fast and go further, right? That's where Microsoft comes in. With tools like GitHub Copilot, VS Code, and Azure AI Foundry, you have everything you need to push the limits and bring your ideas to life faster. And with security, compliance, and responsible AI built in, you can focus on what matters most, building the next big thing. Learn more at developer.microsoft.com.

This is an iHeart Podcast.