Conversations with my Team - Ep #1 - Tintin (YouTube Producer)
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Hey guys, I am Tintin. I'm Ali's... I'm gonna go with head of YouTube because it sounds cooler. If someone was like, how is Ali Abdaal so productive? I would say something along the lines of... You had like a high-flying job in a management consulting firm and now you work for a YouTuber. Like...

I was always kind of tempted by like making money online, being inspired by people like you and Naval Ravikant, Gary Vee, Brené Brown. And I was like, okay, the scary thing that I want to do is to start a YouTube channel. I thought a lot about why am I doing all the things I'm doing? Like, is it money? And being so close to you and someone who like has, you know, reached their financial goals. But the primary goal is actually just to do something cool. Alrighty, welcome back to...

the channel. Now we're not yet sure whether this is going to be on deep dive or just on the second channel or even on the main channel potentially but this is I want to resurrect the series Mealtime Mondays where I have food with someone and we talk about things and today we are joined by Tintin who is one of my team members. Tintin do you want to introduce yourself to the people who might be watching or listening to this? Yeah, hey guys I am Tintin, I'm Ali's

I'm going to go with head of YouTube because it sounds cooler. But YouTube producer is kind of the role that I have, which is like basically responsible for the channel growing and help Ali make videos, like coming up with video ideas and working with editors and sponsors and writers and making them like titles and thumbnails and stuff. And yeah, everything to do with YouTube is basically what I do for Ali.

Yeah, that's kind of about it. So you used to be a management consultant. You had like a high-flying job in a management consulting firm and now you work for a YouTuber. Like it seems on the surface quite the fall from grace. Like how do you think about your kind of windy career? Yeah, I was working as a management consultant in like 2021 and I really didn't know what I wanted to do after leaving university.

I kind of, I started off being a football coach as like a volunteer football coach for about nine months for Arsenal Football Club, which is pretty cool. But whilst I was doing that, I kind of was like, not really sure what I want to do next. Consulting seems like a kind of legit thing that people do. And it's like a good way to kind of get experience in like professional sense. And I had no idea where I was going. So I was kind of like, okay, let's do consulting because there's a low barrier to entry. Whereas with things like law and finance,

finance and stuff, it's a lot harder to get in. Um, cause often you have to just like, you have to, I think you have a bit more experience and credibility and stuff. And, uh, so yeah, I just kind of went down the consulting route. And then whilst I was doing that, I, uh,

Was always kind of tempted by like making money online, I think was the kind of broad category. Yeah, the broad, the broad kind of like motivation and dream. And consulting was just not the kind of thing that I want to be doing really long term. The main thing I thought about was like I spoke. Yeah, the main thing I thought about was that the people ahead of me in my consulting job were not interested.

I didn't want to be in their shoes. I didn't want to be five years ahead doing like a kind of being, you know, a senior associate consultant and working on those kind of projects and stuff. I just thought I projected myself forward. So I was like, this is not the path that I want to go down. So I thought, what else can I do whilst I'm working here? And from being inspired by people like you and other kind of creators, like,

Naval Ravikant, Gary Vee, Brené Brown, like a lot of these kind of people. And I was like, okay, the scary thing that I want to do is to start a YouTube channel. So that's what I did. And then three months later, I put my job- Wait, wait, wait. A lot of people have that situation around like, oh, I'm in my job. I know it's not really the thing for me.

And then they might follow. And then like, you know, a subset of people will follow people like me and Gary Vee and stuff and like, you know, consume the content around this. But a very tiny subset of people will actually take action on this.

So what do you think it was about you and your circumstances in your life that actually caused you to be one of the very small percentage of people? Because everyone, basically everyone listening to this probably has that feeling of, oh, you know, my job isn't really the thing. But like a tiny proportion of them are actually going to do something about it. So like, what do you think it was that made the stars align such that you decided to start the YouTube channel? I thought a lot about this. I thought a lot about it. I started my job in January of 2021. And then in February, I watched one of your videos.

which was how writing online made me a millionaire. And you're basically, your thesis was, or the point, the sort of story you were laying out was that you started a blog in 2016 and that then led you to like starting a YouTube channel, which then led you to like starting a business around the channel and all that kind of stuff.

And so I was like, okay, I'm going to do the same thing. I'm going to start a newsletter. And I said, which in hindsight, terrible, terrible route to making money. But the biggest fear for me was, was,

doing something that people didn't expect me to do, kind of breaking out the mold, going against the grain, doing something a little bit different on the side. And so the newsletter was really just like an exercise in getting over all of those psychological barriers. I sent the first four to myself because I was like, okay, if I can just send this to myself, then that will just, I know that doing the thing consistently will lead somewhere.

And I can tell people about it in a month, but I can just send the first four to myself. So I sent the first four newsletters about like appreciation, about like gratitude, just kind of shit that I wanted to share. I sent them to myself. And then after I written four, I was like, okay, these aren't actually as crap as I was worried that they were going to be. I don't mind telling my friends about them.

So that was the initial, everything kind of boils down to that moment of being able to like set up a page on, set up an account on review at the time, which was like a newsletter platform owned by Substack, owned by Twitter, sorry. And it came down to like that moment of actually trying to be like, actually doing, setting up the account, sending the first email and being like, I'm going to do this every Sunday. And I still send that email every Sunday. But yeah,

The thing that then bought like eight months later, let me start my YouTube channel was like, okay, I've realized that sharing this every week is actually not as scary as I thought it was. There's now like 50 to a hundred people or something reading it each week, just mostly friends and family. And they seem somewhat interested in it, but like mostly probably read it just because they know me. And I was like, but it's not as scary as I thought it would be. Maybe I can start a YouTube channel. And the thing that made me do that was

That I was more scared of never doing the thing that I wanted to do or never doing the kind of scary thing that I was of failing. So I was prepared to make that trade off of like looking silly for the benefit of actually pursuing something that mattered to me. And I just thought I just I kind of reasoned I reasoned myself there, basically. Yeah. So eight months of sending a weekly newsletter first to yourself and then to friends and family.

finally made you realize actually this is not as hard as this is not as scary as it once was and the alternative future where you're shackled to a job you don't enjoy and never actually pursuing your dreams was way scarier than the thought of a couple of people from school laughing at you at the thought you might start a youtube channel yeah exactly yeah and i kind of wrote about this kind of stuff in the newsletter itself and then in the youtube videos as well like all of it was kind of an exercise in getting over the hurdle of essentially what people think

broadly. Yeah. And like my family and stuff and yeah, all that kind of thing. Why do you feel you had that hurdle? I guess. I mean, I also had that hurdle and I've also read about it and made videos about it. But I'm curious for you, like you strike me as like a confident dude who was popular in school and like, surely,

Surely a confident dude who was popular in school and was good enough at football to be the coach of the Arsenal football team. You know, you fall squarely into the jock category, or I would have put you into four. I'm actually getting to know you. Why does someone like that feel like, shit, I don't want to, I'm scared of what my friends and family will think? That exactly is like what you described as like,

Not that I was actually a jock. I was more like a sort of middle tier, nice guy, but also very sporty. So which gives you some kind of like credibility in school. I think, yeah, the main thing was, yeah, you've built that up. And it's like this nice little image that people have of you. I was like, you know, happy with my reputation, happy with kind of like what people thought of me. And you're putting that at risk by showing people that you

care about something else and have bigger dreams for yourself and want to do something else and just showing a different side of like, I'm actually really interested in this thing and I kind of actually want to do something else. And for me going against the kind of conventional like consulting path and kind of like conventional personality and reputation that I'd built up was like, it felt like there was a lot at stake for me.

And my older siblings generally were doing things that were quite conventional. And I think, so there was something at stake there, which is basically kind of my like, just, yeah, what my like, essentially the people from school in my head would think of me, who I wasn't even at school with them anymore. But like, and I guess my friends who are close to me, who I knew would support me, but still just like,

I guess kind of like broadly showing the world that you want to do something is kind of scary. And then the second thing is like internally, you can never... If you don't ever try and pursue your dreams, you can never fail. So...

that whole idea once you actually get the the sort of thing in motion then you can actually be shit at it you can you can actually fail it can be something that you sucked at but like if you never actually start the thing if you never actually try and pursue the thing then it's just a dream in your head and that's quite a nice idea it's just like i never you know i never failed so you start the youtube channel eight months in to having written the newsletter at what point like

you know and you're like do you did you suddenly become a millionaire with the youtube channel which is why you quit the job or like what was the story there yeah um i started the channel made um like one two videos a week um for about three months and was like really committed and i was like oh my god this is so energizing i love this so much more than my job i'm gonna like i feel really confident i can succeed with this um before i really understood kind of like

I guess long-term what the plan would have been. Um, but after about like maybe something ridiculous, like a small, very small number of videos, like 20 videos and about three months, I was like, okay, I'm actually on the wrong path. Um, I'm going down the consulting route and I want to be in the educate world of education, the world of kind of online business. And the longer I stay in my consulting job, the

the like more time I'm wasting. So I basically was, I started my YouTube channel in like early October, 2021. And then I told my manager that I was gonna quit around the 20th of December. So actually very, very like quick turnaround because I was just like, I'm just going down the wrong path. And I knew that I could make money tutoring, which is something I'd done in university. So I ended up quitting in January and then just like being a freelance tutor for a bit, kind of making videos, kind of like working part-time for this education company that I knew

And that was a very scary time because I was like, I'd made quite a public exit of the default path to use like Paul Millard's kind of terminology. And I was very much choosing the pathless path. And I read that book around then and I was like, yes, it's really vibes. But that whole period was really, really stressful. Quitting my job was like exceptionally stressful. It's something I've written a lot about in the newsletter. And like, I think it was somewhat unnecessary that it was like a bit public because I felt like,

a public in the sense that just like i'd sort of i'd sort of shared it on instagram and so like people kind of in my network and like would have would have known kind of like friends from school university all that kind of stuff and i probably didn't need to put that pressure on myself um but then uh yeah it was a very stressful period but i took ptya around that time so youtube yeah the part-time youtube academy um the course that we uh or yeah um ali's business like runs and

That was in like April of 2021. So like two, three months after I'd quit, 2022, two, three months after I'd quit. And then after that, a job opened up. Why did you decide to take the course? And did you pay for it or did you get a scholarship? I actually got a scholarship. Yeah. How did you wrangle that? We had like hundreds of scholarship applicants. Yeah. Yeah. I made a two minute, two minute video. And in the video I said, yeah,

that well okay firstly i decided to apply because i was like this is the dude that i follow in the youtube world and in the sort of growing youtube channel world this is kind of my main resource for like

for this stuff. The other YouTubers that I knew of like Think Media, vidIQ, Nick Nimmin, Channel Makers, it didn't seem like they had quite what I wanted. So yeah, I mean, that's not a plug for our course, but yeah, it was just kind of seemed like the best option for me. But it was quite expensive. So I was like, "Okay, maybe I'll apply for a scholarship."

and my, you had to send in a two minute video. And in my two minute video, I was like, I am taking YouTube super seriously. I've made two videos a week for the last five, five weeks. And in total over the last six months, I've made around 40 videos that shows you my commitment. Um, I'm like, you know, I'm taking it very seriously. I'm very consistent at this point. I've got maybe like, you know, I had like 800 subscribers or something. And, um,

I just can't quite afford to take this course right now. It'd be a sort of unreasonable amount of my like net worth was actually like one of the points that I mentioned. So, cause I just had not really saved, I had not saved very much money. And yeah. And then amazingly I was given the application, the scholarship. And so as you were taking the course, by the way, anyone listening, we have, we've not rehearsed this conversation. I actually don't know any of these details. So I'm, I'm actually just genuinely curious.

As you were taking the course and going through the life cohort, what were you thinking, feeling, experiencing about your own like channel and your own like entrepreneurial journey? If I can just crack this system, this, I can, if I can just crack YouTube and if I can just keep making videos, figure out what is the thing that I'm going to be like known for or that figure out my own advantage, then I'll make one video and suddenly kind of everything will be all right. Or like suddenly everything will just kind of kick into gear. Um, and yeah,

I kind of felt like probably didn't want to quite admit that I didn't know what the plan would be. Like even like one, two months down the line, I was kind of making video. I had a good system for like making videos, but I didn't have a niche. I didn't really have a clear thing that I wanted to talk about except for, um,

broadly kind of careers and life design was something that I kind of was was quite interested in I could have gone down that but it felt very hard to have a YouTube channel without having a main thing without having something else in my life um so I kind of made a few videos about consulting and they did quite well naturally because there was like you know low supply and high demand for videos about consulting and that was my unfair advantage but I didn't really want to make more videos about consulting a because I didn't feel like I knew that much and b because I um

like it wasn't the thing that I really wanted to be talking about. Um, but yeah, I was kind of, whilst I was taking the course, I was just like,

i just want to make some videos that blow up and i was just like really what i was feeling and i was like there's money there's money here there's money in like adsense and sponsors in affiliates and like if you can just kind of get a system going or you make a video a week then like i'll kind of figure it itself out as i keep going i was just like action is the most important thing um

Consistency is the most important thing. And I made a video a week from that October whilst I still had the consulting job. I made a video every single week for an entire year and occasionally two videos. And it sort of got me somewhere, but I was just kind of missing a niche. A niche and an unfair advantage, basically, was what I was kind of missing in Reflection.

It sounds like at least part of the decision to do YouTube for you was financially motivated. Like you probably would have seen my videos about like, I think that year 2020, we'd done like a million in revenue or something like that. Did you see the dollar signs to be like, I could become a millionaire by doing YouTube? Or like, what was the thought process? The thought process was, it was less that I thought that I was definitely gonna make money with YouTube. It was more that I knew that this was the path. This was the general direction that I wanted to go in. I kind of was like,

very much taking an experimental mindset at the start, which was like, okay, I'm doing the consulting thing. I kind of know that I don't want to go down this route. What is something else that I can explore? So I explored YouTube and I was like very much pulled in that direction. And I didn't think that it was going to solve, it was going to, yeah, I was going to become a millionaire. It was more like,

I know that this aligns way more with all of the things that I want to be doing. So teaching, the world of education, the possibility of like a bigger upside through, because, you know, there's sort of Naval Ravikant says like there's infinite leverage on the internet and all that kind of crap. And it was just like that world seems way more interesting to me. I'm going to go towards that world. That was what I was thinking.

That was what I was thinking. It was not like I had a grand plan. And around the time that the job application came up to work here, I was like, okay, Ali is making progress in this world and seems like he would be, I would learn a lot about education and online business working for him. So when that job came up, I was like, okay, I'm just going to follow this dude or go in this dude's direction because he's kind of in this world. And yeah, it was very much like a,

I didn't know the specifics, but I was just like, I was thinking, where am I going to learn the most about the things that I want to be working on?

If that kind of makes sense. Yeah, I make that. So it sounds like you didn't have a specific destination in mind, but you aligned your direction. You were like, currently my direction is consulting and I can see a few destinations along the way that don't really vibe with me because I can see the destinations. But actually this new path, this pathless path, this like YouTube entrepreneur education world, there's something here. I don't know exactly what it is. And so if a friend had asked you, what's all this leading to? Your answer would have been, I don't freaking know, but I just...

I'm just tweaking my direction, the compass point. So I'm going in that way and I'll go in that direction and the path will reveal itself over time. Is that reasonable? Yeah, 100%. Like that's exactly all of the things I was kind of writing about in my newsletter each week was like, I don't know where I'm going. I don't quite know what I'm doing, but I'm trying to just kind of pursue the things that matter to me. Trying to be like really action biased was a big thing and try to kind of lean into uncertainty because...

I knew, I just, yeah, I just knew that like I was taking steps towards something, but I didn't quite know what.

So 800 subscribers, you're making basically zero money from YouTube at that point. How were you funding yourself? And, you know, going from management consulting to freelance tutor probably was a big pay cut. So how did you think about the money in your life? Um, yeah, money in my life as a consultant, I was earning around 30,000 pounds. So actually not that much because it was a, it was a, yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah.

Yeah. I mean, yeah. The, often when people think of consulting, they think of like McKinsey, Bain, BCG, which are the kind of three big strategy firms, strategy consulting firms. And you do generally get paid more like 50, 60K as a starting salary. So like, you know, a reasonable amount more. But then I knew that I could make like two, three K a month as a private tutor because you charge an hourly rate of like,

40, 50 quid was what I was sort of doing at uni. It was kind of a little bit less when I was at uni, but by this point, you know, I was a graduate. I'd had a bit more credibility, a bit more experience and stuff. So I just had, I'd worked with all these different tutoring agencies at university and I just kind of got back in contact and found work through them.

And, um, but it was an unfair advantage that I had that I knew I could lean on that. Whereas other people couldn't necessarily. So I definitely was like, at the time I was like, I know that I can do this. I can afford to do this because I like, I went to a good uni. I felt confident tutoring people and I've had experience doing this. So yeah.

It was still stressful, the money side of things. And I was able to earn around 2,000, 2,500 pounds a month doing it. But I could have earned more, but I didn't want to put too much time into it because I knew that it was a short-term solution.

And a lot of this is actually documented on my YouTube channel. Everyone go check out the YouTube channel. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I'm not posting there anymore, but yeah, it's interesting to have footage of that journey, I guess.

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Okay, so then you get a job at Ali Abdaal Limited. What is that like and what happens next?

I felt that I was like, I still didn't feel sure that I was like what the future held. I was still very much in this kind of like uncertainty, leaning into uncertainty, just kind of like being okay with all of that. Whereas now I feel we're a bit more settled as a business, that there is a little bit more certainty about the future. At the time of joining, it was quite uncertain, like what the business was doing and how I fit into it and stuff. And

So I was just like, okay, this isn't, yeah, this isn't the like, this isn't a sure thing necessarily. So just kind of like turn up, work hard, be useful. And it was very interesting to see things behind the scenes. It was nowhere near as organized as I thought it would be. You were a lot more like,

I guess maybe frantic is the word that like, and I thought you'd be in just in terms of like the way you kind of filmed the way it was just like, it was a lot of action. You have, you are very action biased, but I think you've maybe like got a bit more sort of like a strategy head screwed on these days. But like, I dunno when I, when I joined, it just felt like it was a lot of action.

But yeah, I was kind of like, okay, I'm in the right world. I'm in the right place. I'm in the education space. I'm in the YouTube space. I'm going to learn loads. I kind of thought that maybe I'd be able to grow my YouTube channel more because I worked for you. I thought I'd be able to like,

It will give me video ideas, but then also I'd be able to kind of like leverage your audience a bit. And that would be like my unfair advantage would be that I worked for you and stuff. And I also felt a huge amount of relief that I had a job that I was like secure, a bit more stable financially and a bit more stable in my career. Yeah. What was your first week like? And how did that differ from what your first week was like when you had a real job? Yeah.

There was an onboarding process for, you know, it was a very short onboarding process with Gareth. But, and then it was kind of straight into work on day two. Like day two was like, okay, here's some stuff to do. And I was writing a Notion course, I think it was my first task. And I like,

I wrote that in about two weeks. And that was like my main, yeah, so I had like zero meetings and it was just like, okay, Tintin, you're here to write courses, just get to work. And that was kind of what I did. And I was in the office every day because I was like, I knew that being in the office every day would be a signal of intent, the best way to learn and a great way to kind of meet people. It's like super important, I think, when you have a new job to kind of, you know, be able to meet people in the team.

So I was just there every day writing this notion course. There were surprisingly few people in the office, I remember thinking, especially in the second week when there was like, you know, PTYA didn't go that well and there was like stuff going on and a bit of uncertainty around like what we were going to do. And then I went away in like my third or fourth week because I had a holiday booked before I joined the company. So that was a bit stressful as well because I was like, ah, like I should probably be there. But yeah.

Yeah, everyone was very nice and were very friendly and warm. But I remember thinking that the office was a little bit empty in the first one or two weeks. I think that was maybe a bit of a hangover from COVID as well. Yeah.

What are some of the major lessons that you've learned from now being in this role for a very long time? I guess, actually, before we go there, so you started off as a course writer. We thought we needed a course writer. And then how did your role evolve over time? And how did that feel? Yeah, I spent four months working on the Creativepreneur brand, which was...

something that we thought would be something that would de-risk the business a bit and have something kind of aside from Ali connected to Ali but something different and I spent four months kind of working on that and then basically we realized that we were doing too many things and

in like November of 2022, we kind of realized we were doing too many things and that we needed to scrap Createapreneur. We need to kind of double down on the part time YouTuber Academy as like a source of revenue. And Ali needed help on the YouTube channel because at that point it was basically just him, basically you turning up on a Thursday, like recording three videos a week. I remember at the time, like three videos in a day and you were doing it all on your own. I think you felt a bit like

under pressure doing that. And there was this day that Daniel Priestley came in to help us figure out what to do with the business. And he dropped some knowledge bombs and everyone was like, whoa, okay, we're doing too many things. We need to focus on this. And then after he left the next day, it was the start of November. I remember it very clearly. And we were kind of thinking about what to do. And you were like, I think I need some help on the YouTube channel.

And I think we need to take advantage of this window of opportunity with short form content on YouTube. And so I started writing, I just literally started writing shorts, which at the time felt like, honestly, I was like, this is so strange that this is where I've been, like I've come to is just writing these like 200 word shorts. Honestly, I felt like, I was like, what is the, I was like, are these valuable? How useful is this? Like as a task. And yeah,

That was kind of mostly what I was doing. But then over time since then, like the role evolved just naturally to kind of like helping with long form and then just like overseeing more and more stuff until I basically kind of like, you know, run the YouTube channel. Yeah. So if you were able to speak to yourself from when you had just decided to start a newsletter, what would you say?

And you're speaking to that version of Tintin, which I suspect is actually where a lot of our audience is at. Like however old they are, I think a lot of our audience is at the point where they have a job slash they're at union about in a transitionary stage thinking, oh, this thing I'm doing is not really a thing I'll be doing. What would you say to that person like Tintin from back in the day, knowing what you know now? It's almost exactly three years ago that I started the newsletter. I think I would say a lot of the things that I was saying to myself at the time, which was basically like,

The path ahead is scary, hard and uncertain, but just go in the direction that you think you want to go and go also go into the world. I think I'd figured out that education was something that I wanted to work in. So I was like, okay, I just need to go towards that world. And that was like,

I didn't know the details of it, but I was like, I just want to be in there. And I think because of the internet, because of the world evolving, I just think I'll be able to make money, enough money being in that world and potentially more money than in my consulting job. So I'd basically say, pick a broad direction, keep going, appreciate that there are lots of ups and downs. But if you focus on, one of the things to focus on

I don't know, maybe building market value, but that feels a bit like niche. What do you mean by that? Like what, yeah. What do you mean by market value? I didn't really have any skills. Even as a consultant, I still, I didn't really develop any skills. Whereas now I'm like, I understand a lot more about like building a YouTube channel and like even more specific than that, like, you know, making thumbnails and I could like help some, I have market value because someone would pay me for help with their YouTube channel or for the help with their thumbnails or for help with reviewing their videos or their video scripts or like,

with the monetization behind their channel. Like all of these kinds of things, like these skills have market value. Whereas there was very, there was a lot less that I would have been paid for three years ago. And my newsletter had no market value. It was just like my thoughts. Dream and take action is like a nice summary that I think about. Basically have a dream in a certain direction and just take consistent action towards it. Have a goal and take action.

Nice. What surprised you about getting to know me other than the franticness of what was going on? You were a lot funnier than I thought you were going to be. Your internet presence is like broadly, you know, quite sort of armchair intellectual vibes. And I think your sense of humor doesn't come maybe a bit more these days.

but at least in your like sort of like 2019 2020 content um like i don't know it just felt like you were yeah you're you're just basically yeah you have a better sense of humor than i thought you did um you genuinely have a very stoic kind of mindset i feel like a lot of the time um you're quite you're just very positive all the time and i feel like even when things are hard you manage to kind of find the fun in stuff i feel like there are periods in the last year and a half where the business has been in like tricky situations and you've still kind of like

managed to have a sense of lightness and ease a lot of the time. I think you probably are a lot more strategic than I thought you were in the sense that you're just a good entrepreneur. And I feel like on the, on the, on the like content side, on the viewer side, it feels like you are very interested in like, yeah,

you're doing the content for the content sake and you definitely are, but you're also like, there's also a kind of a more kind of like a grander strategy of like making money behind, behind all of that. Um, in like a, in like a very healthy way, I think, you know, like, you know, um, that's like, you know, why, why, why wouldn't you, um, kind of thing, a lot of the kind of like pithy ideas that the viewers like me would have had about how to make money and how to be successful, um,

Like, you know, be consistent, be action biased, do things with high leverage, kind of like follow your energy and like focus on learning. All of these things you did actually embody. And I was like, oh, it is actually just doing these things that is the answer. The answer is like,

is is actually in a lot of these like these things that people talk about which is just like be action biased like kind of lean into uncertainty get over the like there's gonna be loads of fear but just kind of stepping through it like all that kind of shit i was like oh okay fuck yeah i actually like ali's not like a a superhero of some kind with some unreachable skills it's just like his mindset is very good um yeah being part of this business

To what extent do you think anyone can succeed on YouTube slash make money in this world that we're in? Yeah, I think YouTube is evolving in a way that means that like, or maybe this has always been the case. I just see it clearer now. But you really do have to have like

some kind of unfair advantage and some kind of clear target viewer and if you have those things you actually can you actually can grow a channel like there's still very much opportunity to grow and build a youtube-based business um as yeah as i'm kind of experiencing right now with like a sort of side hustle youtube channel i'm like oh you actually can't grow a youtube channel um yeah there's definitely opportunity but you have to you can't rely on people just being interested in your personality um and you um

if you make some kind of extraordinary videos or unique videos and your personality really comes through, you know, you can bring people in by being relatable and all that kind of stuff. But like, um, there's just a high, a reasonably high bar for success. Um, but you only meet that bar by doing it for a long time, I think, and figuring all the things out that you need to figure out to be successful. Um, but yeah, there's definitely opportunity. How, how has your approach to money changed over time?

as a broad open-ended question big numbers seem a lot less like scary than they used to and my imagination can reach uh like 10 million i can sort of imagine what like 10 million dollars or whatever sort of looks like and feels like i know i obviously could have actually can't but like

I just feel like the numbers that we talk about in the business feel, have made money feel like, whoa, there's loads of money in the world. The numbers are way bigger than you think they are like in business. And it's still very hard to get going. And it's still very hard to earn like, you know, $2,000 a month. You have to have some kind of like, you know, market value and some marketable skill. But I think just by nature of being in this business and the numbers that we kind of throw around, like it's all felt a little,

yeah, a lot more approachable potentially. And there's a clearer path to earning money. But then, yeah, my imagination can't stretch to like 100 million or hundreds of millions. Like I don't really know what that looks and feels like, but like I sort of feel like I'm getting a sense of like, yeah,

uh yeah how the world works a little bit more and i would say but i still have huge respect for people who are able to earn like you know a couple thousand pounds on them on on the side a month because i'm still trying to do that and it's still very hard um and well i sort of did it for a bit last year as a youtube consultant i kind of stopped because i just wanted to pivot but like uh yeah i have a bigger imagination now i think and does that bigger imagination tie to bigger ambitions around your own personal like how much money you personally want to make

Yeah, I kind of think that I struggle with this a bit. Like seeing how much money you make and how much money the business makes. And I'm like, that would be so fun. That would be so cool. But then also, yeah,

Yeah, probably does. It potentially influences me in a bad way because I sort of like try and skip the step of like earning like, you know, 5k a month and then try and jump kind of in my head and thinking about like bigger numbers when you kind of have to grow, like you have to kind of go through the ladders, the steps of like wealth creation as Nathan Barry would describe. Yeah.

But yeah, potentially, I don't know. I kind of think about it like right now I have my job and I live off my salary and I save a bit and stuff and I spend a bit. And then anything that I earn on the side is a business and it goes into, it's like forms part of my business. And the business mindset that I have as like a kind of, you know, owner of my side hustle business, I think about much bigger numbers there

And I'm like, okay, I could charge XYZ for a client for YouTube consulting services. Or maybe, okay, over the course of next year, I could make an extra 50K potentially by doing this. I'm like, do I want to do that? Is 50K kind of worth it? I'm like, it definitely is. But I'm sort of thinking, can I earn potentially more than that in the long term by doing something else?

where there is no financial return right now, but potentially there's like a bigger upside down the line, which is like my YouTube newsletter. But then in my personal life, living off my salary, I'm still quite like scarcity minded and think about like saving money in the areas that I can. So I kind of have like a sort of a business hat and a personal hat, I guess.

Does knowing how much money me and the business make, uh, make you feel like, yeah, what, what does that, what, if anything, does that change about the way that you operate? If that makes sense.

It's simultaneously like, damn, this takes a lot of effort. And Ali has a unique set of skills, knowledge, experience, unfair advantage that allows him to make this much money. And there are only so many people who like, yes, business, there's a playbook to business, but also it's really, really hard. And getting to those kind of numbers and multiples is really tricky. And you have to be very, very dedicated.

So there's that whole side of things. It's like, it's basically, it's demotivating. But then there's the other side of things, which is like, no, there is kind of like, there's a path here. You have to learn the skills and it does take a long time. But if you kind of extend your time horizon for these things being possible or for these things succeeding, then...

you actually can learn all the things you need to learn and kind of like make sensible decisions, make strategic decisions to kind of hopefully accrue, you know, wealth and financial returns over the long term. Like there are a lot of things that you do that are not down to your unfair advantages, but are just down to the fact that you've like learned something somewhere and then apply it, which anyone could do in theory.

What do you feel are my unfair advantages? Like if you were to, now that you've sort of seen the outside and the inside, I guess sort of 50-50 of the time, what would you say are the factors that have led to our channel kind of being fairly big and kind of making a decent chunk of money? I guess you kind of had the external unfair advantages, which were like, you know, Cambridge, NHS, doctor and stuff, like the kind of badges which help. But then I think your internal unfair advantages are that you

Naturally, very intelligent, I think is a big one. Like you're very good at explaining, understanding things and explaining things. And I think that like, you know, very much lends itself to YouTube.

I think you're very action biased and don't worry about as much or naturally worry as much about what other people think. I know that you sort of did in the early days, but like, or maybe that's actually me misunderstanding your journey and it's not actually an unfair advantage and it's something you've worked through. But yeah, I would say action bias. I think you have a naturally...

uh, high energy state, you're, you often have like energy to do things. Um, whereas I think some people would just struggle more with like just having the energy to do stuff. I think, um, you, uh, naturally are extremely curious and naturally very much a student. Um, I guess all people can do these things, but like, you know, your unfair advantage is that you're naturally the right fit for a lot of entrepreneurial traits, I feel.

um to have a lot of entrepreneurial traits yeah maybe that's maybe that's me projecting somewhat but like do you do you feel like that yeah that's interesting it's it's sort of like that thing of you know you can't read the label from inside the bottle where it's like i you know the reason i asked that question is not so you can blow air up my ass but because i'm genuinely curious like

as someone who was initially a viewer and now a team member, like, what do you see as those advances? Because people often ask me on podcasts, it's like, well, what was the secret to growing the thing and stuff? And it's like, well, I've been doing this for seven years now and a big part of the secret just keeps going. Um, but another big part of the secret is finding a way to keep it enjoyable, which generates energy. And so that's the energy point. Um,

making sure that like i'm not just making videos for the sake of the money but feel like there's some sort of deeper something behind it um which to me don't feel like unfair advantage i just feel like i mean anyone could do that it's just that most people choose not to is is that fair to say or am i like am i just so out of touch with like what people are with people other than myself that like i just miss uh sort of misjudge how like the difficulty of this stuff

I guess it's hard to know without knowing you before all of it as well, because you may have been quite different then. You may have been a bit more scared, a bit more uncertain, all that kind of stuff. Whereas these days I interact with you and you're just like, you have so much conviction in basically everything that you say. But yeah, I think one of the biggest things actually is if someone was like, "How is Ali Abdaal so productive?"

I would say something along the lines of speed. You're actually like, yes, you make things feel good and stuff, but the speed at which you move through life

is just so much quicker than everyone else. It's like you read faster and you learn stuff faster and you process information faster and you make decisions much faster. Um, maybe that's because you understand the power of making quick decisions, but you, um, like especially reversible decisions, but it is something that I feel like maybe you naturally do. Um, you kind of like, you just make decisions on a daily basis very quickly. Like we'll be filming a video and you'll

you'll, you'll sort of like, we'll be like, Ooh, should, should I have said that? Should I include that? Yeah. Okay. Whatever. Let's move on. And it's like that kind of speed of thought and that kind of cutting through overthinking that I think allows you to condense like 40 years of progress into like maybe seven years or 10 years. Um, because you're just like, you're learning quicker, you're moving quicker, you're making decisions quicker. You're like, you're typing quicker, you're reading quicker. Everything just feels like very fast. Um, and yeah,

Maybe that's just my interpretation. But it feels like there is a natural advantage there, the ability of which you're able to sort of deal with the speed. Yeah, what do you think about that? Oh, that's interesting. That is a good point. Like,

Because like, I guess I don't know the speed at which anyone else operates. So it's hard to say, but I have noticed sometimes if I'm in the car with someone and my audible or podcast auto plays and it's playing at like 2.5 to 3x speed. Yeah. People who are sitting next to me will be like, whoa, how do you even understand that? Or, oh my God, this is so stressful. And those are the two responses that I'll get most often.

With the exception of Cliff Weitzman, who was like, oh, that's good. Like, I think you could bump it up to 3.6. And I'm always a bit surprised because I'm like, I mean, you just train the ability to listen fast. And it's like, there's not much difference between one times and 1.1. And then you slowly build up to 1.2, 1.3, 1.5. And before you know it, you're listening to things at two and a half times speed and like just learning two and a half times faster because why not stuff? But that's an interesting point. Like I had never really considered that as being like a thing before.

But yeah, it does also feel like a thing that anyone can do. Like increasingly people are watching YouTube videos at double speed and installing video speed controller and all that stuff. And speechify, for example, has settings that you can train your listings, but like

why why don't more people do this or but i guess there is also a counter thing of like well fuck this guy like he doesn't he goes he can't smell the roses on the way you know you can't smell the roses at 3.5x speed yeah i think everyone struggles with that to be honest like i think even if you're moving extremely slowly i think most people are still struggling to smell the roses and they're still thinking about like they're still stressing about work or stressing about something else in their life um

So, yeah, I feel like that's a kind of fundamental human problem. It's just like having the time to be present and smell the roses and stuff. And I don't feel like you struggle with that more than anyone else. Yeah, I sort of know what you're getting at, but I feel like there's a deeper thing there, which is like that you are just fundamentally more able to deal with or to just move to move faster. You just like can process information faster and then kind of turn it around faster and like that kind of stuff. And yeah.

Yeah, that's just one of your unfair advantages, I think. But like, you know, I feel like to some extent, some people get money and some people don't. And I feel like I'm naturally someone who doesn't actually get money. And I feel like you are. Like in the sense that maybe again, this is like-

So, so understand. Yeah. Um, I'll expand on it, but like, I feel like maybe this, again, it's me projecting and maybe you actually had to go through this journey and all that kind of stuff. And it probably is more that actually, but I feel like some people just understand how money moves through the world and how like money kind of, um, like is yeah. How to earn money, how to get money, kind of how to have market value, all this kind of stuff. Like people just understand

the scale of it and the like the kind of they're just naturally entrepreneurial basically people like garyvee kind of selling sweets at school and like flipping stuff at age 11 like that whole mindset is like often what people associate with being an entrepreneur and you had that from like age 13 you kind of understood that you could oh i could do a thing and it would like i could exchange it for money um and i feel like some people take a lot longer to come around to that idea of like

yeah doing something useful and getting paid for it and i feel like some people just understand have that have that entrepreneurial mindset very naturally um yeah yeah i guess so like when i hear the stories of like people who were like hustling and when they were 11 selling sweets and stuff i always know i'm gonna vibe with that sort of person because that was basically what i was doing just selling websites on the internet rather than selling sweets and i'm often surprised by the lack of agents personal agency that people have when it comes to their earning potential

Where it feels like for a lot of normal people, the way you earn money is at your job. And like the way you get more money is by asking for a raise in the right way. And your boss is an asshole if he didn't give you the raise because in line with inflation. And it's a very like it's an attitude to money that's around. I get what I am given.

which is not at all the attitude that any entrepreneur has. It's not really, I get what I'm given. It's like, I can choose how much money I want to earn and I can do the things that will take me to get that based on offering enough value to people who are willing to pay for it and stuff.

Yeah. Yeah. Agency is like another thing that's like very natural to some people and is not to some people. Like taking agency over their life. And some people just find that very hard. And like, I think I've had to very much build that skill. And like one of the reasons I like hanging around with you and I like hanging around with my housemate, Oscar, is because

uh, you guys are naturally high agency people and you make life happen and you kind of like take control over it. Maybe you weren't always like that, but I very much find that to be the case now. And it inspires me to be like, to be more action biased and to take life into my own hands more and, and all that kind of stuff, which is something I've always had to work quite hard for. Now I feel like the muscle, the muscle is very much there and it's grown and like I can flex it and stuff. And I'm now quite high agency, maybe relative to other people, um, in my like

social circle to some extent potentially but like uh yeah i feel like that's an unnatural thing that some people have and some people don't but again yeah a lot of it is learnable so what are the less fun parts of working in this business working with me like what are the what are the downsides if you had to really spill the tea or so you're whatever the phrase is um serve the tea uh i would say the downside is um

I think one thing that I think is maybe like it's public within the team is that you think things can be done quicker than they can. And, and it's not even a lot of it is not even that they can't be done that quickly or you couldn't do them that quickly. It's just like to operate at a hundred percent all the time is super fucking tiring. And like that, that kind of, I think the, you, cause it's your business. You very much like drag the team forwards, not drag. It sounds negative, but like,

you're trying to make it move faster than everyone naturally because it's your business. And so we're like trying to keep up a bit. And I feel like there's always, there's that tension. And I feel like, yes, we're all, we're there.

Like we're with you, but sometimes it's tiring to always be at 100%. And when you weren't in the business or less involved in business, like post the kind of around the time of the life update video in December and stuff. Yeah, naturally, when you're more involved, things like are a bit more chaotic and a bit more like,

kind of lurched into action um which is obviously a good thing but are they are they actually more productive like yeah yeah i don't know because for example in november december black friday we made a lot of money black friday and i wasn't involved in that at all yes um yeah yeah honestly i i i do actually think about this i i think i actually don't know there's something to be said for like if you just completely left gareth to his own devices in terms of making the productivity product

he'd get there quicker and potentially make something better, potentially. But maybe not. Because you will often take it, I feel like strategy-wise, you'll take it in a better direction because you're just more in tune with maybe the entrepreneurial side

side of things, the business as a whole side of things. And you just can see things that other people can't. It's just so hard to look at a business that's not your own as your own. It's like with your YouTube channel. I find it so hard sometimes to really think about it as my YouTube channel when it's your YouTube channel. It's just very difficult. So yeah, honestly, I actually don't know the answer to that question. Like if you were just a consultant for the business, would it move quicker? I think I definitely would have said no a year ago.

Like a year ago, I think you needed to be very involved to kind of like take us out of the phase that we were in and kind of turn P2A into a self-serve thingy and that whole thing. I feel like we need that energy. Today, I'm less sure because the team is better. So yeah, I don't know. What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, I also think that, yeah, the team is much better now than they were two, three years ago. As a leader, me and Angus are way better than we were three years ago. And yeah, yeah.

It's always a bit of a balancing act with me of like knowing, like between me and Angus around, like both of us want the business to go to 10 million. And it's just that like, to what extent is my involvement in stuff actually useful? And to what point does it become a hindrance to that particular goal? And again, I'm not sure. I think when it comes to new product development and when it comes to the YouTube channel, those are two areas that I need to be very involved in. I think also, yeah, yeah.

It's like, because I'm not in the day to day, I do have a more zoomed out perspective on things that people involved in the day to day do. But there's a balance between that and also like kind of seagull management where you come in, you make a lot of noise, you shit over everyone's heads and then you leave.

Uh, and that is like also clearly not helpful. And so getting this balancing act in like how involved do I want to be versus how I'm not involved. Do I want to be with things? Yeah. How much do I want to be okay with someone making a plan and taking action on the thing? And if it doesn't have my name attached to it, I'm a lot more okay with it. Um, but if it doesn't have my name attached to it, I'm not, uh,

But for example, with our light mode keyboards, for example, I wasn't as anally retentive about that as I would be about something if it was like Ali Adal branded. And maybe the thing would have been better if I'd been more perfectionistic about it. In fact, it definitely would have been better if I'd been more perfectionistic about it. But there comes a point where you do have to sort of let go of things. And it's like, yeah, it's hard to know what that balance is. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I don't know the solution, but generally things, I think,

are move faster and better when you are more involved i think that's like a broad thing but there are some specifics maybe like the customer success where maybe maybe that's not the case um but yeah in particular with the youtube channel like the more involved you are the more uh well the content will be better i actually feel like potentially uh the growth i actually don't know the more involved you are as in like obviously assuming you're filming the same number of videos either way um

Like, cause I think you, you, yeah, I don't, I feel less sure about that. Yeah. Maybe that's just bigging myself up. Like if we filmed videos that I wanted to make versus if we filmed videos that you wanted us to make, we'd probably grow faster in your mode because you're in the world with the analytics, with the idea generation, with everything, getting a sense of this is a video that will grow the channel.

Whereas I'm in the world of like, oh, I just, I just read a cool book and I want to share some ideas. And we're like, yeah, but like the title doesn't work. Yeah. Yeah. But then like there's a middle ground because obviously you come in and you're like tinting that title is like all over the place. Like, or it's like, you know, that's going to make me seem like a dick or cause I'm like, I'm like views and you're like brand. And yeah, I think there's a middle, there's a middle ground. Um, so yeah. Yeah.

Why did you decide to not be, not continue to be consistent on YouTube? Because, you know, every week for two years and it changes your life and you did it every week for one year. So why not? Why not continue? Yeah. You have all the systems. Like if anyone in the world could do a side hustle YouTube channel, it's probably you. So why did you decide to not do that? No, I know. Yeah. A hundred percent. Um, so short answer there is actually, I now kind of am, I've kind of returned, but I'll get to that. Um,

I thought when I joined the business that that would actually solve my YouTube problems. I was like, oh my God, I work for a YouTuber with 3 million subscribers at the time. Obviously, I can just like leverage that and my YouTube channel will just grow. But my fundamental problem was that I didn't have something that...

I could continuously kind of talk about where I had expertise that people would listen to me and I sort of wasn't really going to do vlogs and shit and sort of have a like people weren't going to be interested enough in me. I had to be providing some kind of value and I had that fundamental problem. And then I had the problem of being so closely involved with your channel that I didn't know how to like

I didn't know which video it is that was sort of yours or mine, to be honest, because I like talking about a lot of the same things as you. I thought then maybe I could differentiate myself as doing a kind of careers life design thing and maybe quarter life crisis niche. But then I kind of lost a bit of steam with it, lost a bit of motivation. It all felt very much like a sort of heavy lift and like an uphill battle. And I was like, okay, there's not kind of, there's not legs here. So a year ago, I could sort of feel the YouTube channel kind of losing momentum. And

um, I was like, I think I just want to make something, I just want to make something work and I want to make some cash. And, um, you'd mentioned YouTube consulting and other people had mentioned YouTube consulting. So I did that and I got traction very quickly. I kind of like tweeted a few things and like a two weeks later, I had my first client pay me like a hundred pounds for a, for a zoom call. And I was like, whoa, this is all, um, uh, this kind of crazy. And then I managed to increase my price over time. And I kind of,

realized through the process of last year that oh shit people are paying me because I have some like knowledge or skills that they want help with and um and I was like that yeah I have Market value and that is my unfair advantage

I should lean, life would be a lot easier if my side hustles were leveraging my unfair advantage and the thing that I'm going to continue learning about and the thing that I know about, um, rather than something that I'm going to have to like, like rather than something like careers or life design, which are very kind of nebulous topics, which I'd have to, um, read books about and, um,

whatever to try and make videos about. And I was like, life would be a lot easier if I was more aligned. And we had, we actually had a conversation about it in a cafe and I was like, Ali, can you help me out? Um, do you remember in next to your house? I was with you with, um, with your girlfriend and, uh, in the cafe next to, uh, I can't remember. Yeah, it was right next to your house. And, um, I was like, can I have some life coaching? Cause I'm kind of like

do I be a life coachy guy about careers or do I be a YouTube guy? And you were like, the world has presented you with this opportunity to be a YouTube guy for like a YouTuber with lots of subscribers. Like growth is really good. It's really good when things work. Why don't you do more of that? And I was, I kind of thought about it for a bit and I, it was just very hard to let go of this, of the personal YouTube channel and stop making videos that had a lot of identity kind of wrapped up in it. So it was very hard to stop doing that. But I kind of,

basically stopped doing that and decided to start a youtube newsletter about all the things i'm learning working with you and um because that leverages my unfair advantage and the thing that i'm going to continue learning about and then i also decided to start a very simple youtube channel which was like um essentially just screen recordings of me talking about youtube um and uh

that I've seen a lot more just like signal of interest of doing those two things than I did with, uh, my personal channel. Um, and so I made this kind of transition basically. So I haven't stopped YouTube completely. And, uh,

Yeah, I'm now kind of trying to upload a video a week on that channel, just a loom. And I'm going to just make it better over time. You know, who knows what the products will look like in a year's time. It could be like they're really edited and they're kind of like a whiteboard vibe. And I've got thumbnails. But to start with, I was like, what is the unfair advantage here that I can leverage? It's my knowledge of YouTube and the fact that I work for Ali and the fact that what people want to talk to me about YouTube and YouTube.

I'm just going to do the lowest lift version of this that I can imagine because that's the thing that I'll be able to be sustainable with. Yeah, there it is. And this I can be sustainable with. It's a lot easier than making kind of talking head videos. And yeah, it's sort of slowly working. And the reason I stopped consulting was because

I felt a bit scheduled outside of my job and it was like a bit of a time drain and there was a limited upside. Whereas this, there is in theory, a kind of, you know, a bigger upside if, if things go well and, you know, and it's the thing, it's the world that I understand. So yeah, that's kind of why I stopped making videos on my personal channel. Yeah. I remember us having, I remember us having that conversation and me kind of telling you that

Like it's, it's very hard to make any business work, but when you get signals of interest from the market, that's where you're like, you should, you should really think about it.

and trying to be a 25 year old life coach versus trying to be a 25 year old youtube growth guy working for me like yeah you know i know which of those i would bet on um i'm just confident if i keep going i'll just something interesting will happen again you know something will come out of it and things things have already um and yeah i'm not setting my sights on

Because I've realized money is not actually the thing that I really, really want. It's more like I want to do something interesting. I want to help as many YouTubers as possible. I don't like safeguarding the information with one client. I like kind of sharing things with more people. And also, yeah, consulting is kind of tiring, especially given that I do it in my job as well as part of the part time YouTuber Academy.

Yeah, speaking of, so you do weekly office hours for our YouTube Accelerator clients, students. It's not even linked down below. Go to academy.olive.com if anyone wants to sign up. What have you learned about talking to YouTubers who want to grow their YouTube channels every week around what it takes to grow a YouTube channel? Like what have been the surprising things? The surprising things are, yeah, probably a lot of things that you resonate with. One is like,

A lot of questions are answers that you can get elsewhere, kind of through content or through just like watching other videos or like watching the course itself. Then I think some people overcomplicate it. Some people try and do kind of like hyper they try and game YouTube too much and try and like over edit their videos, kind of retention hack, make the thumbnail super click baity, that kind of thing.

I think some people think the timeline is way shorter than it is in terms of being successful. Like, yes, you can blow up your channel quickly if you know how to make sick videos and you have an unfair advantage and all that kind of stuff. Like the kind of stuff that you've been preaching for in YouTube, in part-time YouTube Academy for ages. But if you don't know anything, then like, how can you expect to have, you know, to grow your YouTube channel quickly? I think a big thing is,

not being clear on why you're doing it. So what is your goal? Is it, are you doing this to express yourself? Like deep down, is this what this is really all about? Are you doing it to make money? If you are, is YouTube the best option

And if you're doing it to make money in the sense of like get clients, make that the very clear goal. I'm trying to get clients for my business. That is why I'm doing YouTube. If the goal is for brand and just like have a kind of YouTube channel for brand purposes, for like personal brand or business brand, then like be very clear about that. So kind of be very clear about why you have the YouTube channel in the first place.

And yeah, what else are the things that people do? Yeah, not leveraging their unfair advantage, not understanding that. I feel like I was speaking to someone who was a mortgage broker the other day and she was trying to make her videos appeal to like a sort of 15, 20 year old market by kind of like editing them loads. And I was like,

you don't need to do this. You're just a mortgage broker. Like you just need to say I'm a mortgage broker and talk loads about, um, like just share so much value about like how to, how to help kind of people in their thirties get better mortgages. Um, cause that was, those were who, those were who her clients were. Um, and those were what she was trying to do with YouTube was get clients. And she just kind of was like overcomplicating the process. So yeah. On that note, I think a lot of people take the,

Like the average age of our student is about 36. We have like real adults with real jobs who go through our courses because of the price point and because of mine. But a lot of the advice on YouTube out there is aimed at kids. It's like make the thumbnail super Mr. Beastie, make the editing super retention-y, et cetera, et cetera. Really make the title as click-based as possible. And it's like,

You know, if you're a 48 year old finance, like, like CFO and your business is fractional CFO services, why are you trying to make videos appealing to 14 year olds? Like make videos appealing to their dads who are running businesses, which is very different to how you make videos that appeal to a 14 year old. Um, just something that I keep having to hammer in my sessions as well.

Yeah, 100%. It's just really hard. You're just learning a thousand skills. And so it just takes time. And like, if I could go back and tell myself like stuff, I'd probably just say like,

Keep going. You're kind of doing, you're doing all the right things. Like the main thing that it's funny how genuinely the main thing is if you actually are taking this seriously, the number one thing you could do is keep going as long as you also have a commitment to improving and learning because by keeping going, you are forced to figure out these things. You're forced to figure out your unfair advantage. You're forced to figure out your niche. You're forced to kind of like make better videos and all that stuff. So like kind of start, keep going, get better is like actually,

the three-part method that like has the most truth behind it. I think like, yeah. There's definitely something to that. And this is partly why I still am bullish on the one video a week philosophy because people sometimes will ask in the sessions be like, but like, isn't it better like to make a really high quality video instead? And I'm like, yeah, but the way you get to making a really high quality video is by making lots of videos and improving at the process over time.

And generally when people think high quality video, it's like a video that takes four weeks to edit is unlikely to be a video that leans into anyone's unfair advantages. And yeah, I just think the value of just keeping going. Yeah. Because if the goal is like, if the goal is like be James Jarnie and make documentary vibe videos, then and kind of establish yourself as some kind of like

you know, high production value channel, then you need to figure out how to make really, really good videos and do that maybe on a less frequent basis. But you need to be really clear on like, what is the point in the channel? Who are these videos for? Can I do this sustainably alongside my job? Do I have the money, time, energy to do these things? Like all of it, it's a puzzle. It's just a big puzzle. And yeah, which is why I have gone for Looms because I...

I don't have the time or I don't want to put in the time to sustain a different kind of YouTube channel. And I think it's the simplest way for me to convey value. So I was going to ask you about this. Like this is breaking all the rules in the YouTube playbook, basically. You have no thumbnails. You know, the titles are reasonable and you're just doing a loom video recording with no editing. What's the rationale there? I think it is a very good idea, but I'm curious about like, what was the thought process? Okay, the first thought process actually is like, what can I do sustainably?

that was crucial so i was like what can i do sustainably like i can make one video that looks like ridiculous but what can i do on a consistent basis that leverages my unfair advantage um and yeah basically that um and i was like to be honest like sitting down and recording videos and working with an editor i was like can i can i just strip all this out can i just like talk to youtubers um in a what's the simplest way i can do that and i kind of landed on looms

And because the way I kind of got there was just like, I want to talk about thumbnails. And to talk about thumbnails, you kind of need something on screen. It was kind of hard to do that, like in a talking head video like this, and then talk about a thumbnail that maybe is on your computer and hope the editor kind of puts it over the top. I was like, why don't I just talk about the thumbnail on the screen? So I was like, okay, looms. And then I was like, yeah, no one else on YouTube is really sharing kind of unfiltered advice like this. It all feels a bit retention hacky. It all feels like they're trying to get you into their course. It all feels like they're kind of...

uh trying to game you a little bit and i was like i reckon there's a market out there um of people which i know these people because we talked to them in the partnership academy i was like who just want some kind of um helpful videos talking over thumbnails and other things um where there's no kind of retention hack and it's just like high quality information from someone that they think is credible so yeah i actually think i may go with thumbnails in the future um the reason i haven't got thumbnails is partly because

Partly because it takes time to make good thumbnails and partly because I think maybe there's an unfair advantage there because my channel is so different to everything else that there is like long-term and upside there. And...

potentially. So yeah, I'm kind of experimenting. I literally, I feel myself like week to week applying all of the principles that we believe in of like a video a week, kind of like don't overthink it,

unfair advantage like clear niche clear target viewer have a clear system spend a bit of time in the week kind of like writing the video and then it comes to filming day and batch them and all that kind of stuff and i still struggle even with just looms i still struggle but like um yeah that's why the channel currently looks and feels the way it does yeah i know it's really good three five nine subscribers only eight videos that's like pretty solid stats

Your video from one day ago, it's already got 132 videos, 132 views, which is like a third of your subscriber count. So that's sort of the equivalent of me doing a video that does 1.5 million views in like a day. I know the people, those 132 views are in theory, like, you know, reasonably high quality views. The people that I kind of want to be in front of.

Yeah, but also I don't know. I don't, I don't know. I don't like even given the amount that I feel like I know about YouTube, I still don't know if this will work slash what this will look like in six months time. I'm just trying to keep going and experiment and figure it out and kind of be strategic and stuff. And yeah, I'm still like just, you know, exploring.

I think it's a real, like a lot of your journey to me, including the way you're approaching this extra YouTube channel is there's this quote from Rumi, which is something to the effect of when you step on the path and walk on it, then the path will appear. And so you are stepping on the path and walking on it and the path is, is, well, it's going to appear and you don't know what form it'll take. You don't know what destination it will take you to, but you just know that, Hey, I'm doing sensible things and I'm going to keep doing them for a long time. Something interesting will happen.

It is, that is the philosophy I think. And, um, sometimes I think I'm like, sometimes I wish I was further ahead than I was, than I am. Sorry. Um, and you get kind of frustrated with all that kind of stuff, but like we, yeah, we talk a lot about infinite games and I try to remember like, I actually am kind of doing all the infinite games that I want to be doing. Like, you know, I love teaching. I love YouTube. I love like working in this business and all that kind of stuff. And so I'm like generally just trying to keep doing the things that I'm doing currently. Um,

But yeah, there's a whole thing there. Yeah, like the reward for good work is more work. And that thing around, you know, like I can guarantee that there is no achievement that you can ever achieve that will make you any happier than you are right now. You know, you could be making 500k a year and it would not change your life very much. You'd go and fancy your holidays. You'd have a bigger bedroom. But beyond that, you know, I'm...

I make more than 500k a year. I'm sitting in my mom's house in the spare room. You know, Thai food takeaway in a little box. I've gone bougie and then I put the noodles into the bowl just because we were doing it on air. Otherwise it would have been in the box. There's like shit all around me because like, as long as behind the camera, as long as the camera viewing looks good behind the camera, no one needs to see all the boxes and stuff that have been piled around.

it's all the same stuff it's all the same stuff that i was doing when i had fewer subscribers than you did than you do now yeah i think yeah i think that is um something i've also realized through working with you is like is nothing profoundly changes um but the i've thought a lot about why am i doing all the things i'm doing like is it money and i think being so close to you and someone who like has you know reached their financial goals um

I've realized that it's really not for me actually. That's obviously a secondary goal, but the primary goal is actually just to do something cool. I want to, that's kind of it. It's like, I want to have like built something and contribute to something in like a, in a cool way. And I want to like, um, have like essentially achievement, but kind of like maybe a more kind of dressed up version of achievement, like, um,

build something like satisfying for myself, kind of like, you know, explore my potential and all that kind of thing. Maybe there's a bit of a status element there, like trying to achieve, do something cool so that I can get kind of respect from others and stuff. And like, that's kind of fun, but it's actually less about the money. Cause like,

If I wanted to make lots of money, I would probably quit my job and be a full-time YouTube consultant and build a business around YouTube consulting or something. But yeah, I think I want to just like 100,000 subscribers on the YouTube channel would actually mean more to me than making money from the YouTube channel just because it'd be like I did something

I managed to like, yeah, to build something cool. I think that's, I think I have an attachment to that idea now in hopefully a healthy way. Um, I may, maybe there's all sorts of things going on there and like you could interrogate me on why and stuff, but I, yeah. Nice. That's very good. We'll save that for round two of this, um, deep dive conversation. Uh, yeah. Um, thank you everyone for watching slash listening. Tintin, any, uh, final parting with wisdom for people who may have, uh, watched all one hour, 20 minutes or listened to one hour, 20 minutes of this, this episode.

I feel like I share a lot of life wisdom and I don't really actually, at least like life wisdom that I'm currently learning myself. And I don't know. Basically, yeah, entrepreneurship is hard, but it is a kind of, there's like a skill set involved with figuring stuff out and kind of keep moving in the, I think broadly like identify what, it's all the shit you talk about in your videos. Like kind of actually, that is actually a really good final, that is a really good final point is, yeah,

Even though I work very closely with Ali,

I also want to be kind of reminded of the lessons and stuff that Ali learns and like all the things that we talk about in the business. Basically everything is public in the videos. So sometimes even I like go back and watch a video to just hear Ali talk about something. I'm like, oh, that's such a good point. And I have more context maybe for what they mean because I speak to Ali about them separately. But basically everything, everything you kind of need is actually in the videos. Like I think like all the encouragement, inspiration, tools, tips, techniques, like

a lot of it is on your channel um and so i think it is actually a very good resource to mine um yeah that's a final point i guess thank you for making a plug for the channel and where can people learn more about you and your little uh endeavors youtubehowto.substack.com is my youtube newsletter which yeah fantastic

And if you guys, if anyone listening to this wants to start a grow, scale YouTube channel, you should check out a YouTuber Academy or the YouTuber Accelerator, where you get access to weekly office hours with Tintin, where he can give you more advice specifically about how to grow your channel. Anyway, thank you for joining Tintin for this experimental episode of Deep Dive and see you later. Bye guys.

All right, so that's it for this week's episode of Deep Dive. Thank you so much for watching or listening. All the links and resources that we mentioned in the podcast are gonna be linked down in the video description or in the show notes, depending on where you're watching or listening to this. If you're listening to this on a podcast platform, then do please leave us a review on the iTunes store. It really helps other people discover the podcast. Or if you're watching this in full HD or 4K on YouTube, then you can leave a comment down below and ask any questions or any insights or any thoughts about the episode. That would be awesome. And if you enjoyed this episode, you might like to check out this episode here as well, which links in with some of the stuff that we talked about in the episode.

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