Snippet 11: Listen To This Before You Quit Your Job - James Hoffmann
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How important do you think it is if, let's say, someone wants to quit their job and start a business today, for them to have a wider, altruistic, somewhat vision behind it that's other than, I need a business to make money because I want to try and quit my job and do something that's fun? If they wish to derive satisfaction from the work they do, I think it's essential.

Because earning from, I mean, it's for a certain sort of mind, just extracting wealth is satisfying. They see the number get bigger and that's satisfying enough. But for most people, it's quite hollow and empty and unsatisfying. And they end up doing work they don't like because the number goes up, but they don't feel good about it and they look for something else. So I think having a purpose or a meaning behind it for me is essential. Like what am I, you know what I mean? I don't really believe in legacy.

But I I think it's a shame not to leave something better than you found it that seems you know what I mean like this the decent thing to do so I want to improve things or be have a positive impact and so that's driving a lot of the decisions I might make around starting businesses or doing stuff like that And I would say the people who enjoy their work the most I've met miserable billionaires You know what I mean like miserable people because they're just what the numbers very big and

So what now slightly bigger like what is that that is you know, they're just miserable. I have no aspiration for that So yeah for me, I think it's essential if you want to enjoy the work you do and feel like it has meaning and purpose Yeah, there has to be vision nice And is this how you were feeling in the early days as well or is this something a philosophy that's developed over time? That's a good question. I think like

I'm aware that I grew up middle class and so I grew up with a safety net and that I started a business and I was never going to go to zero. You know what I mean? And I think that that's always worth noting in people like me who took risks, started businesses. There was a safety net.

I was going to be okay. And I, you know what I mean? That changes your relationship with money. I think if you don't have a safety net, then I'm much more open to the idea of like, no, I need money. I need to build my safety net because I don't have one. But I was aware I did. And so for me, you know, I was a very passionate person about the product. I just really, I really enjoy coffee. I get very excited about it.

And so that was always a driver for me. But I also like learning stuff. And so, you know, learning to build a business was satisfying, learning to sell or market or do the other things that went alongside that. So with YouTube now, like learning to shoot better films, do better audio, light properly, all of those things. I enjoy that process. That's just part of me. I like the constant obsession. It's just very satisfying to get better at something. I like that. I'm always going to like that. This is what it is.

Um, so yeah, I, I, I think I wasn't super money focused. I didn't earn very much from the business for a long time. And, and, um, you know, even now I, I think my, my, because we've always been bootstrapped. So the coffee company is bootstrapped. Everything else has really been bootstrapped. Uh, I have, um,

left it in a lot of the time. I like, especially going into pandemics or going into whatever the economy is going to do now, having cash inside a business is a good thing to me. And that's just because I don't like to be responsible to other people because I suppose I have a bit of a control freak aspect to me. And it's not that I'm against investment or I'm against...

you know, raising money in different ways, but I just like the control. It's just how we've always done it. Like we've done everything out of cash from the beginning. And you would argue, and I would hear you and say, you're probably right. That was not the best use of that money that we could have, you know, borrowed, leveraged the business a little bit, borrowed a ton of cash, grown faster, done all those things.

But if the goal is to make better stuff and feel good about it, then that was not a route we needed to go. So, yeah, like historically, you know, we can talk about money, I guess, a bit. I've never really pulled tons out of the business, which is...

Maybe foolish, you know, I mean, I never really cashed the chips in so to speak But I you know, I'm interested in the businesses that I work with doing the work and being long-term sustainable So so yeah, that's been the general approach interesting. Yeah, there's a Good book by Matt Smokery the the great CEO within one of the things he says is that because he did he does a lot of coaching for like tech founders Silicon Valley type

And he says that basically people want to go, people want to work or start a business for three reasons, to make money, to have fun and to help people. But if you ask them that if they could only pick one, it would be to make money. At that point, once they've ticked that box, if they could only pick one, it would be to have fun generally. And once they've ticked those two boxes, at that point, people then shift to the helping people thing.

And I think that's certainly true for me. Like it's very nice that right now the thing that I'm doing does all three. But I think, yeah, when I was starting out, I was like, you know what? Affiliate marketing, selling t-shirts on the internet, I'll do whatever I can to make money. Then it was cool, I'm making money. Now I'll do whatever I can to have fun while doing this. And

it's only kind of now that I've done it for a few years that I'm now shifting to realize this point about how having a wider mission is ultimately the thing that makes it most satisfying. Yeah, I think purpose is kind of everything for me. And the bit, you know, I suppose I have enough time to look back on, what are we, 13 years old or whatever else? Like it's the same, it's ultimately, it's the same as YouTube metrics. Like subscriber counts are deeply unsatisfying.

hitting a million subscribers isn't rewarding in any way. Not a single way. You know it's coming deep down when it happens, and then you're like, "Oh yeah, but it really doesn't feel like anything." And it's the same sort of thing for me in business, it's the same sort of thing. Like a big fat balance sheet at the end of it, sure, good, fine, whatever. It's an indicator.

Same as an audience, you could do something with it if you want to, but is what you're gonna do with it that's more interesting, more satisfying than the accrual of the number?