Reverse Aging and Live Longer with Bryan Johnson
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Hello and welcome to All The Hacks, a show about upgrading your life, money, and travel. I'm your host, Chris Hutchins, and today we're embarking on an extraordinary journey into the future of health, wellness, and personal optimization with none other than Brian Johnson, perhaps the most measured man on the planet and someone who has done more to reverse his own aging process than anyone I've come across.

After selling his company to PayPal for $800 million, Brian embarked on Project Blueprint, a deeply personal mission to reverse the aging process and achieve optimal health.

Through this project, Brian, who is 46 years old, has attained metabolic health on par with the top 1.5% of 18-year-olds, inflammation levels lower than the average 10-year-old, and has effectively reduced his biological age by the equivalent of 31 years. Today, we will dive into Brian's remarkable journey, uncover the science and philosophy underpinning Blueprint, and discover how we can apply these principles to not just live longer, but to live better.

Whether you're looking to transform your health, inspire global change, or simply curious about the cutting edge of human potential, this episode will give you the insights and inspiration you're looking for. So without further ado, let's dive into this conversation with Brian Johnson right after this.

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What I've been working towards is in any given moment, you and I could probably say a few hundred things about this moment. We could talk about politics or economics or upcoming election or the drama of the day. And I've really basically said that my value in society is not commentary on those items. There's many people who can eloquently talk about that. What I've tried to do is play the role of...

imagining what the 25th century will observe about our moment. Because ultimately, many of us would want to do the things that the 25th century would admire. So when we look back on the 15th century and we see the innovators of that century, if I was in the 18th century, I would have been the one working on discovering germs and that they were leading to infection and that would invite hygiene. And so I think we have this idea in our mind of who we would have been in history. But when we exist in this moment,

the omnipresent concerns of our reality consume us and often as we forget that we're living in this larger context and so don't die is my contemplation of basically saying if i'm observing myself from the 25th century what's the version of me i admire most as a group of intelligent beings in this moment what do we do collectively that we feel proud of from that perspective

We'll get to longevity, but do you think you'll make it to the 25th century to reflect on the path you took? I think the odds are as good as not. What happens with the broader population if that's the case, if we can all live hundreds of years? We look back through history of the previous centuries. We reduce an entire century to maybe five or six things, a few books, a few concepts, and then we carry forward as a species.

Our time and place, as much as we are enthralled by everything we're doing today and all the discussions happening, our moment in time is going to be compressed into one, two, maybe three things. I personally, and I want others to play this game with me, I'm trying to focus on that singular thing that carries through, and that's don't die. And that is basically the observation that if you look at the growth of artificial intelligence and the speed at which we're bringing intelligence on board, our ability to solve problems has dramatically improved.

including that problem set that could be solved, is aging is one of them. We know that biological species can live a very long time. We know they can regenerate.

It's not like it's an unsolvable problem, like you're trying to change the speed of light. And so when you're applying that new intelligence to biology, it's such a special moment for the first time in 4.5 billion years, just in the past few years, has it been possible for someone to say, we may not die, or we're not certain if death is inevitable. In the past few years, it's like a stunning moment.

And it takes a new way of thinking. And I had the pleasure of joining you for a, I don't even know, a thought experiment at dinner. I don't even know what you want to call it. You opened everyone in the room's eyes to this idea of zeroth principle thinking. How would you explain that night to a friend or a loved one?

It was interesting because I remember in the moment after I called my wife and I said, I don't even know how to explain what just happened. Like I didn't know how to explain it. And then the next morning I was thinking about it more and I was like, well, was the fact that the lights were dim and like we were all sitting around a table together and we were all eating this thing that now is actually as we'll get to a staple in my daily diet. But at the time everyone was eating this nutty pudding and it felt very ritualistic.

Did that mess with my thoughts or not? The next morning, I still thought, wow, maybe there's some future where we can trust some other thing to think better than we could. That was my big takeaway was we don't know what's coming next and to assume we would and

act as if we do seems a little crazy, especially when things change so fast. I'm sure having explained this thousands of times, you could do a better job. So how did I do? You did a great job. I would say that you basically said it remapped many of the ways you thought.

It challenged some of your existing assumptions about reality. It wasn't quite clear how you could map those into practical words that others could understand because it's stacked up. So it's inherently an unintelligible thing unless you walk through the entire thing. So yeah, I think all those are correct. And is there a way someone listening could try to walk through something similar on their own?

Yeah, I think it boils down to this. We humans are currently the stewards of knowledge. So we generate knowledge, we learn knowledge, we memorize it, we regurgitate it. And when we talk, you know, we're exchanging knowledge, we're affirming to each other, we know these things, but we are the stewards of knowledge.

Now, artificial intelligence is in the process of becoming the steward of knowledge. It's much better at knowing all things, more so than any human and more so than a collective of humans. AI is going to be generating knowledge just like we are in ways that will be faster and more robust than we humans.

And so we're in a gradual change from us humans being the stewards of knowing all things to not knowing things, to be able to reference things or query things or understand if we query, but we're not the steward. We're no longer the owner of all information. So we're transitioning from a first principle world where we can readily know things and act upon those things to a zero principle world where we don't know by default, we can query by

but there's no way we're going to keep pace with the generation of knowledge and the mastery of all knowledge. And that's the most fundamental shift in our existence is that transition from us being stewards to non-stewards. And so it's a future that we can't clearly map. And so what the dinner is meant to do is to say, we could gather together and talk about any number of given topics.

Take your given 2024 thing that's hot right now. We can all express opinions about what's going to happen, what historical context is relevant, all cool. And what I'm trying to say is we are about to evolve as a species.

into an unrecognizable place. I don't think that it's fair to assume anything we are or believe or trust will map over to this future. It may, but I don't think there's any reason to think by default it will. And so it's a rewrite of our existence in many fundamental ways. And so what I'm trying to do is to socialize this idea and say, we can prepare ourselves for this future, but it's going to invite us to change ourselves in really, really important ways.

One of the things I took away from that, one of those important ways is maybe giving up more control than we are comfortable giving up today. Exactly right. How do you think that takes form? This came from the observation that if I had to say what game in humanity is played the most out of all games, is it religion? Is it capitalism? It's don't die. So the number one game played every day by every human on planet earth is don't die. More so than capitalism, more so than religion, more so than anything else.

We breathe every few seconds and we look before we cross the street, etc. When you identify that, it's something we just forget because we're also focused on making money or acquiring status or power, the games of society. What I was trying to say is if you look at Don't Die, we systematically identify anything that potentially creates immediate death, like getting hit by a car or wearing a seatbelt or throwing up moldy food or changing a smoke detector. And we try to minimize our risk of death.

But at the same time, we're willing to smoke a cigarette or miss bedtimes, excessive alcohol, or name your vice. So we have this really weird behavioral profile where we do not want immediate death, but we're willing to exchange long-term death. And so what I wanted to say is as a species, if we have risk as a species individually and collectively of dying, what are those sources? And can I eliminate all of them? Now in any previous generation, that would have been insane to ask.

People are like, what are you talking about? The Fountain of Youth is not a story where you go into a boat into the jungle and you find some secret elixir. It doesn't exist. It's only right now that question can be posed. So if you pose that question in 2024, you have to have the straight face. It can't just be dismissed. And so what I tried to do is say, okay, if for the first time in human existence, we can ask this question, then I want to go through and basically be the first person in the world

to legitimately try to structure reality around don't die. And that's what I've done for the past three years. And part of that is I recognize that myself, I do things that cause death. I overeat, I eat bad foods, I have vices, I do these things. And so I try to systematically reframe those behaviors as violence, which is a strong word. And I try to eliminate all of them to zero to basically say, what does it look like for a person to live a zero death life?

And for people listening to hear you say that and say, well, no drinking, no staying up late. Some of those things people find joyous in life. And they might say, well, if you get rid of all the risk, can you still have fun? People who are listening, hi, friends.

I know what you're thinking. I know what you're asking. I know why you're telling me these ideas are bad. I know your thoughts because I've had this conversation so much. The responses I'd say are like 98% predictable. And so what I would invite you to do is in this conversation, listen to the idea, but don't express an opinion. You're going to tell me that a life well-lived includes these things. You're going to tell me community is part of longevity. To really understand these ideas,

You have to suspend your beliefs and your knee-jerk reactions, and you have to sit into these ideas. This is not a situation where the future is like, hey, we're coming, and just give me all of your preferences, and I'll do what I can to accommodate. What is happening is the future say, I'm coming at you like a tsunami. You better get ready.

And so the response of, but what about, it doesn't address the severity of the situation of how serious things are going to change. It doesn't fully account for those things. Now we are accustomed because we are alpha on this planet. We do whatever we want, whenever we want and however we want. We treat the planet that way. We treat each other that way. We treat ourselves that way. We have so much authority in intelligent beings.

but that's going to change very quickly. As you mentioned in the dinner, it took us a few hours to get through these ideas. So when you hit the idea after a 30 second statement, you're going to send like five missiles my way at trying to crush these ideas. And I can tell you, I can promise you, if you spend time with me walking through these things, we're at least going to get to a tie where you're going to say, huh,

interesting. I hadn't thought about that before, but it does take time. You have to breathe through it. It's a harder thought process. Yeah. I remember some people saying, well, I'm not willing to give up my free will. And then at the end, they were like, well, do I even have free will? Went into a lot of places, but are there any examples in history that show this kind of radical change in the way things operate that might make people who are just struggling to grasp what the future could look like be more relatable? Beautiful question. That's such a

great bridge. So let's just do a few thought experiments. So we're whispering in the ear of those who lived in 1870 and we say,

Hey, there's these new ideas about microscopic objects that cause infection. They're called germs, and your eyes can't see them. And even though your eyes can't see them, they still cause death. The solution is to wash your hands with this thing called soap. And with that, then you clean your instruments before and in between surgeries. The majority of people in the 1870s say, that is nuts. That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard in my entire life. Some people were like, huh, maybe.

Let's do another thought experiment. Go back a million years. You're talking to Homo erectus. They have an ax in their hand. Hey, Homo erectus, what's up? Where's food? Where's shelter? Where's danger? And we'd listen because they know things we don't. We say, Homo erectus, tell us about the future of the human race. We laugh. There's no way they're going to tell us about the internet and computers and microscopic objects. And you can take a pill and it just fixes an infection. And all the crazy things we have right now that are magic to them, but just normal to us.

So in this moment, we may be homo erectus. That is where our intelligence may be at on the spectrum. Like we are so primitive, it's laughable that we have anything to say about the future whatsoever. And so if you look at it from the 25th century perspective, and you look at the progression of AI, you don't even have to believe in super intelligence. Just look at the math behind how fast it's progressing and tell me that it's not possible that we're likely so primitive that we're laughable in this moment.

And so once you start stacking these things up, you do get a fresh perspective. The future may not be like it has been in the past where in the 1920s or even in any decade before this, you could reasonably map the past and say, here's what I think life is going to be like over a lifetime. It's just been the past few decades where things have been dramatically changing.

And you keep saying 25th century. In my mind, it feels like things are progressing fast enough that next century, you know, like, does it need to go that far? Or how do you even try to process how fast things are moving? Because it seems to me like if you go back 20, 30 years, the amount of progress we made 30 years ago in a year, we're now making in a week. Exactly right.

That's the math. So if you do look at the math and we go back to the homo erectus, so it's a million years ago, we look at that creature like they're beyond primitive. So how long is it going to take for us to travel 1 million years of evolutionary advance now? Is it a decade or two decades or three decades? It's not a million years. And you're right, the speed we're moving, it's stunningly fast.

And that's, again, why this is so relevant is this is not a luxury thought experiment that is reserved for the rich class of society. This is all of us, no matter where we're at. And it's imminent.

The place you spent the most time focusing on, at least from my outside perspective in the last few years, is around your health. Does that be fair? Or is that just the one you're most known for? Basically, it's what I was trying to say. So again, I try to create clarity. So like, what would the 25th century say? So what I was trying to do is I was saying, we're developing this superintelligence. What do we do with it?

So do you try to make more money? Do you get better at waging war? Do you get better at getting social media followers? Like how do you apply super intelligence?

Currently, the war uses what it can to play the games homo sapiens have played of power, of territory acquisition. We are a violent species and we've created new ways to be violent. Like we have violence in terms of economic sanctions instead of going to war. So we've progressed to become increasingly less violent, but we're still violent just in unique ways. We still have weapons of annihilation at our fingertips.

And so what I was trying to do is say, of all the things that could create existential risk for the species, I'm not just going to talk about those things and offer my opinions. I'm going to be those problems. And so I said, okay, how would I potentially be climate change? I would do the same thing I do with my body, where I became the most measured person in history, measuring all my organs, looked at scientific evidence, created a protocol, and that protocol ran me. Like I said, yes to an algorithm.

And so if we were to say, how would we avoid climate collapse? We would do the same thing. Replace my body with planet earth. You measure planet earth with millions of data points. You look at scientific evidence. How do we maintain a healthy biosphere for the planet? You implement the protocol and we adhere to the protocol. We don't just pollute as we please. And then on AI risk, how would you avoid a negative outcome for AI? You build it with the same objective. Don't die. All the major X,

your existential risk problems for the species, you would approach it through the same process I've done through Blueprint.

And so that's different than largely commentary, which is like, if you hear about climate change, it's stressful. What do you do? Recycle your Amazon boxes and you're left like just trying to vote for people who maybe do things or like support causes. The majority of people feel powerless to do anything. And what I was trying to say is actually you can be every single significant problem affecting the future of our species. You can be it. So if you want to build a future for your children, that's positive.

be the problems. Don't just try to raise them, we'll fix the problem, be the problem, let them be the problem. And so I try to come up with a novel approach of how would you change the future of the human race through structural changes individually and then collectively.

Yeah. And it sounds like your example with earth would take a lot of people coming on board, but to take over your own body, you don't need anyone else's permission. So like, it seems like a great place to start is something that you have full control over. It's unlikely that the world would give you full control over the earth anytime soon. Maybe, maybe we'll see the results.

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My mind is a self-destruction machine. It's really interesting. I am an inferior form of intelligence, and my intelligence tells me to do things that increase my speed of death. It's really absurd.

And so this algorithm has prevented me from doing these things. Now, clearly in this analog version, I'm still making those decisions. Yes. Also, I have an algorithm that is constantly tweaking and managing what I eat when I go to bed. The data is what drives this and the science.

If I compare that with the number of urges I feel to eat something, not part of the protocol or do something, not part of the protocol, it's a lot. We've normalized this so much as humans, we don't even pay attention to it anymore because it kind of makes us feel bad.

It's very hard to achieve change. And we're willing to play these games. Now, like when death is inevitable, sure, do those things because we all die. What does it matter? But when death becomes an open question, it flips everything on its head. So people have said like, why don't you make this a positive statement? Like live long or live best.

Because if you say that to somebody, they'll say, yeah, I'm doing that. If you say don't die, it stops them in their tracks and they have to reconcile with everything they have in existence on what walking towards death or away from death means. And so it really requires a full stop existential reconciliation of their existence. And how many different therapies, treatments, whatever the macro category you would use is, have you experimented with?

hundreds. Yeah. What we did that was unique is the fountain of youth, right? Is this old, well-told story. And I posed the question, where are we in proximity to the fountain of youth legitimately? And we're going to pose this as a scientific question. And so we looked at all the scientific literature. We ranked them according to their effect size, like how good they were. We scored the biostats and then we put all the power laws into me. So we said, all right,

for the past couple hundred years, we'll take humanity's very best science, we'll put it all into me, we'll make me the most measured person in history, and we'll get an answer. Where are we? It's a limited study because it's n equals one, but it's still really interesting that we did this as a project. And so it's like a modern day Magellan or Lewis and Clark or Ernest Shackleton or Neil Armstrong. We're trying to be a pioneer and explorer for something that's never been done. And once one person does it,

Many humans do it. And that's been the case. So like hundreds of thousands of people all around the world are now doing blueprint of some variety. And so it sparked this global change of we want to go through this process of measurement science and iterate again and again. And you've open sourced all of it. It's not a secret what you're doing. You're not trying to keep it to yourself and live longer than anyone else.

That's right. It was funny because people have a lot of conspiracy theories about what the rich class does for their health and wellness. And yeah, I just made this entire thing open. Everything is transparent. All of it's for free. Of all these power laws that you examined, were there some that bubbled to the top as the like, these are the most important? I don't think most people listening are going to go through hundreds and hundreds of things yet. One

Once it becomes more accessible and easier, maybe. But are there things that you took away that are like, wow, these were the starting point for anyone? Yeah, they're really easy. And they're ones everyone knows about. They're the obvious ones. They're the obvious ones. It's diet, sleep, exercise, not doing bad stuff.

It's the stuff we know, but being incredibly consistent in doing those things. Were there any things that were a surprise that it looked like maybe this would work or wouldn't work and then it did? I'm surprised it works as well as it does. For example, my speed of aging is now slower than 86% of 18-year-olds. So the body accumulates aging damage every minute of every day. We just slowly deteriorate.

And so your speed of aging matters a lot. And you would know this by looking at your friends. Some friends look great for their age. Some friends don't. It's their speed of aging. And so there's a clock inside the body. This is one of the dozens of markers that we measure on a routine basis. My speed of aging is now better than the average 18 year old.

Now, I've taken a handful of biomarker tests that come out with, here's your chronological age, your biological age, here's your inner age. What tests are you using to measure and how do you think it stack ranks with other ways to calculate your biological age? The ones you're suggesting, they're DNA methylation markers. So they're just looking at the chemical fingerprints inside your body, which leave a trace evidence of what these patterns mean for your speed of aging.

And so the algorithms that are trained to determine that age, they're all trained differently. And so they're not all alike. And so that's why you could get different results from different algorithms because they're trained differently. But we use the denude and pace algorithm from true diagnostics. It's the speed of aging. So I don't look at any biological age markers. We don't think those are the most reliable. We,

we use speed of aging. So you know you're not aging that quickly, but you assume you're still the age you are and you're slowing down or have you kind of gone in reverse? So you can think about chronological age is different than biological age. Biological age is the anatomical elements and the functional elements. If you take the heart, a 10-year-old heart looks like a 10-year-old heart and functions like a 10-year-old heart normally.

is different than an 80-year-old heart. And so you can then score a heart by its anatomical characteristics and its functional ability.

And so my heart, for example, is 37 based upon these biological characteristics. And that's true. We've done this for my entire body. I've done nerve sensitivity, my physical strength. And for those listening, you're older than 37. Yes, I'm 46. Yes. I have probably over 100, no, probably 200 age markers for my body. What's the age of my kidney? What's the age of my lungs? What's the age of my ears, hair, like all of it. We've tried to biologically age every part of me.

And slow down or in some cases reverse that age as much as possible. Yeah, we've had some good wins. Like for example, on one marker for the brain for white matter hyperintensities, it's like a scar for the brain. We lowered that by nine years. My speed of aging, we lowered by the equivalent of 31 years. I improved my nerve sensitivity in my foot by, I think I freed the data, maybe under 20%. We've achieved significant accomplishments by poking at these various organs.

We're just getting started. These are the power laws as of now, but advanced therapies are just around the corner. And so this kind of looks on a broader horizon of how good will we get at slowing down aging and reversing aging damage. The therapies are coming. So it's really motivating for anyone who's contemplating this. It's a good time to be alive and a bad time to die.

You know, we can talk about advanced therapies, but from hearing you talk multiple times, it seems like one of, if not the most important thing, might actually be just getting good sleep. I sometimes joke when I hear people say, oh, you know, I got a cold plunge, it's great. I'm like, by all means, do your cold plunge. But if you have an exercise and all you eat is chocolate chip cookies, the cold plunge might not be the solution. And if someone's thinking, what is the single most valuable thing in their life to dial in, would you say it's sleep? It is. Because...

Everything else is a domino effect from it. When you sleep well, you're motivated to exercise. When you exercise, you're motivated to eat well. And the opposite is true. When you sleep poorly, you're more likely to eat bad food. You're more likely to skip exercise.

So sleep is kind of like the elixir of life. If that's in a good place, other things have a higher probability of also happening. And I know you've maintained a long streak of 100% sleep scores. I use an Oura ring. I keep telling myself I can't get to the same 100 you got because I'm not wearing a whoop and maybe it's a difference between devices. But how important is hitting perfection versus doing really good? I feel like I'm doing most of the things to get good sleep. I feel good about it, but I'm not at 100%.

So there's two things. One is what I do does not need to be repeated by everyone else. I'm trying to do the Ernest Shackleton or the Lewis and Clark or the Armstrong or the Magellan. I'm trying to do something that's never been done before. And that's usually in a group of explorers who take that on.

And so this is not something that I think everyone should be trying to do, but I'm trying to establish these principles. You know, you find your power law. It's an invitation to do the things we've all heard our entire lives that are common sense. And we see evidence every day when we wake up in the morning and we're not well rested, we all feel it. It's not like some do, some don't, we all feel crummy. And so it's just really a lot of common sense. The whole funny thing is like,

Humans are simultaneously brilliant and also completely idiotic. And we occupy both sides of the spectrum at the exact same time.

I want to talk about food because it's a big part of my experience with Blueprint. I can both sit and think about what I should plan out to eat for the week to be the healthiest thing ever and then eat a chocolate chip cookie. And like, I know that those are like completely diametrically opposed actions. I'm not trying to be the Magellan here, though I will say I've come around to certain things are just not even worth the slip, like bad sleep. Sugar is one where I'm like, I know it shouldn't be worth the slip.

But how do you think about diet? Because you've created a diet. Maybe talk a little bit about the study because I'm participating in it as we speak. I saw this video the other day where this guy was dancing with this street band.

And for some reason, this guy pulled up, got out of his car, walked over and cold cocked the guy. No provocation, just happened. And then there was a big internet search. The guy was found and he was sentenced for seven years. That reminded me of how I used to behave with myself. Like I would basically cold cock myself.

So I would wake up in the morning, I would eat well, I'd exercise the entire day, I would be extremely disciplined. And then 7pm would come and I would overeat, I would binge eat. That's like cold cocking yourself. Because when you do that, I'm going to have terrible sleep. It's going to wipe out your deep sleep, you're gonna wake up the next morning, you're gonna be even

more groggy. You're not going to want to exercise. You're more likely to then eat bad food. And so it just creates a domino effect. But it's this really interesting question right now. An unquestioned assumption about our reality is that we are a unified entity of consciousness. So whether the cookie version of you is eating the cookie and whether the good version of you plans out the week for your food, you basically say in your coherence, you tell me I'm a single entity doing this thing, so I'm okay with this. That's what you did in your thought process.

But what if in the future our different selves were thought of as different entities? Because they really are. The version of you that eats a cookie or stays up late or doesn't get to sleep is a different person than you who's trying to do well entirely. We think of ourselves as a unified whole, but that's not true. We behave as different humans.

And so if you think about the future of our existence, like what if a decision needed to basically be agreed to by all versions of yourselves? It was like a committee that had to convene and be like, all right, morning, Brian, what do you vote? Exercise, Brian, what do you vote?

These things are going to be possible in the future with our technology. In the moment, we decide everything we want to do and we can justify anything we want for any reason. I can certainly talk about my diet. Like we try to design a perfect diet by using the world's best science and saying every calorie had to fight for its life. That itself is like maybe valuable, but it falls short of trying to bridge to this future. So the role I always try to play in these conversations is to try to offer up perspective or insight that's

that would be unique to the person, that would be valuable. Because otherwise, if I'm filling the air with things that others could say, I don't feel like I'm playing the role in society that I am best served to play. I can't tell if I'm reading into this incorrectly, but you've done a lot of research on foods that are valuable and foods that did not win the fight for their caloric value. Can you share some of them? My diet is 2,250 calories. Every calorie has had a fight for its life. I used to drink three ounces of red wine.

because there's some health benefits of that. But it was 74 calories and it was too calorically expensive, so I got rid of it. Things like peanuts, they don't cross the nutritional value threshold. Neither do cashews. There's higher value nuts. If you're going to include nuts, we do macadamia nuts, walnuts, hazelnuts.

For fruits, I don't do a lot of stone fruits. They're okay, but they don't pack the nutritional punch and you don't have the same kind of longevity studies on them. You certainly can become OCD in trying to chase down these foods. And we've published this whole thing publicly. But the thing I would encourage people is if you're trying to eat well, good on you.

Like it's so much better than a trash diet. So I don't want to send people down a rabbit hole thinking that they need to spend more energy than necessary on doing this. It's a really delicate, but I've seen this happen where people will lock in and want to know the exact decision between this vegetable, that vegetable. And sometimes they get locked in on this paralysis where they just forget to do anything because they're just so locked in on this very small detail.

I think that's healthy to not try to say, do this, don't do that. Like if you're trending towards a healthy diet, you're probably on the right path. Based on what I know from the blueprint diet, do you think there's an exception on that to be made for premium high quality olive oil? Yeah.

So yeah, I consume a lot of extra virgin olive oil. Three tablespoons a day. Yeah, 45 ml. So as part of this study, I'll try to say what I understand about it. Yeah. You have the N of one. I know there's at least one person on your team that's maybe increased that to two. Yeah. You wanted to see what happened if you added some aspects of this, not all the same measurements and all the same things to a much larger group.

So there are some number of thousands of people, myself included, who are doing some percentage of what you're doing. And in my case, it's probably around four to 600 calories that get swapped out for some of what you've put together. Yes. We wanted to pose a question. We believe we've created the most evidence-based health protocol ever. If it's not, then it's right there among the top ever done.

And we wanted to say, if you take the power laws of what we've done and you apply them to a few thousand people, what happens? That's what this BP 5000 is about, is a few thousand people at various stages in life, various levels of fitness, various levels of health. What do you do if you just apply these 67 evidence-based health interventions?

And that's what we're doing. And then we're measuring blood and body composition and questionnaires and wearables. So it will be one of the most interesting data sets in the field and never done. And so even though it's not a controlled study, it's still a fantastic endeavor that energizes the entire community, that teaches us to practice that measurement is really the foundation. And then applying evidence-based interventions is the best way to try to figure out what is correct, what is incorrect, and how to improve going forward.

And so I know every day I'm having some of this olive oil and maybe spend a minute on what is so magical about olive oil, because I think I've heard you say that it's one of the most amazing things you could be adding to your diet, but it's not every olive oil. Yeah. I usually joke kind of and say extra virgin olive oil is better than NR, resveratrol, cold plunge, sauna, and your favorite podcast.

And I'm joking, but not really. It's that good. And so like basic things, when you eat food, it causes damage to your body. And so you want to lessen that damage. So consuming extra virgin olive oil when you eat food lowers oxidized LDL by over 80%. It lowers blood glucose spikes by a similar level, like 80%.

has all kinds of health benefits. It's been used for proper weight management, just be used for dozens of things. And so it's such an all encompassing food. 15% of my daily diet is extra virgin olive oil. And the olive oil we have is graded according to six criteria. It has to meet all six criteria or we don't consume it. And so the majority of the olive oil on market does not meet the criteria. So it does not have the chemical characteristics that will achieve the health benefits.

Are these criteria someone can look up online and find olive oils near them? We publish the data. So we tell people what to look for in an olive oil. And of course, the problem is nobody publishes this data. So you don't know if it meets that criteria. You can look at online reports, people who have done certain specs, but we publish our specs.

So we do a third party analysis. We publish what the results are. So with the olive oil, you always know exactly what you're getting. And then you can reference out the studies to say, yep, this is in fact meet the criteria that the evidence says this kind of olive oil has produced these kinds of results in people.

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Another key component is supplements in this protocol. You said 67 interventions or something? What role do you think supplements should have, not to get too specific, in someone's healthy approach to longevity in life? You're trying to give the body everything it needs to perform the functions it needs to do. You're trying to improve the good and lessen the bad.

And so you can do that through a wide range of approaches. You can do basic things. You can do more advanced things. We've tried to, again, pack the power laws into these supplements to say, how do we minimize the bad and accentuate the good as much as possible? And to the people who say multivitamins don't make sense if you have a healthy diet, you don't need all these supplements if you're just eating the right things. What is your response? Yeah, no diet can do that. There is not a diet in existence that can accommodate everything the body needs to be optimally functioning.

And the only way to know what those things are on an individual level, would it be to test and measure? And is the future of medicine one where you might have to do a lot more testing and measurement of yourself to know what supplements make sense? Testing is always wonderful. In the absence of testing, there are some general rules one can apply. For example, over time, your levels of NAD go down as you age.

And so supplementing NAD, you can't just go out and get sunlight, you know, and that thing fixes itself or you can't get sleep and it fixes itself. It's in a deterioration. So you need to supplement these things that decline with age. And so that's what we've done with all these supplements is what things can we be confident that are happening in most everyone's body? And how do you address those with supplements?

And you mentioned measurements important. I think a lot of people listening have measured some of their biomarkers, whether it's the ones their doctor ordered, whether they did an online panel. Some people may have gone a little bit further, but are there specific measurements that someone who wants to just get a baseline measurement

might not be thinking about because they're not typically recommended by a doctor, but have given more insight per dollar cost, right? There are probably some that are very expensive, but to get the most bang for your buck, what are the measurements that people should know about themselves? I'll list out a few fun ones. Blood is the most common. Another one is called VO2 max, which just looks at your body's ability to utilize oxygen. So at the professional grade, you wear a mask and you're on a treadmill and it's pretty painful.

because you go to your breaking point. But that really gives you a wonderful readout of your cardiovascular capacity and to put you on an age scale. That one I think is really informative.

Others, you can do basic tests like sit and reach, like how flexible are you? You can do continuous pushups. That gives you some basic idea on flexibility and strength. You can do a one-legged standing, so you can close your eyes and stand on one leg. And how long you can stay balanced is an important indicator of age, because as you age, your balance deteriorates, your ability to balance yourself deteriorates, especially with your eyes closed.

And then also another one is you can see how far you can run in 12 minutes time. And so you can age score all of those things.

I love that you didn't give me a bunch of things that would cost thousands of dollars, whole body MRIs and all that stuff. Some of those, I think people probably listening are like, I'm going to go do that right now. Yeah. Balance, strength, flexibility. Those seem like things that we can all adjust and change. I know VO2 max is much harder to change, but can change over time. Where does fitness fall into this? And is it right below sleep? Or if you're kind of thinking of what are the most important things to get right? How do you think about exercise? It's an

It's in the top three. I mean, number one is don't smoke. And then number two is exercise. The exercise adds, I think, six to eight years of life. And it's six hours a week, four and a half hours in zone two through four. So like roughly heart rate zone between 110 and 160 thereabouts. And then zone five is above that. So four and a half hours of zone two through four and 90 minutes of zone five.

that changes a little bit with age because where your heart rate's at, your heart rate is 220 minus your biological age is where your zones are. But if you're at zero exercise, even getting some is so much better. So if you're listening to this, don't feel discouraged. Even one 10 minute walk a day is a great start. So just getting some activity is better than none. And how does strength fit into that?

I don't know the exact data on strength as a predictor, but my current bench press and leg press, my leg press is in the top 1% of 18-year-olds and my bench press is in the top 10% of 18-year-olds. People listening to this, you probably thought, why is this bastard comparing itself to an 18-year-old? Because 20-year-olds, 25 and 30-year-olds are so much stronger. Yes. But you max out in ratio as an 18-year-old, the same as your VO2 max. So you peak in ratio at age 18 for those tests.

And so for my ratio between my weight and what I can do with leg press and bench press, I'm in the top 1%, 10% of 18 year olds. So those are good predictors. And so when you say six hours of exercise, does that include the strength training and lifting and all and stretching? It's not just six hours of running at zone two, you know, zone five mix. It's all of it in one. It's everything. Yeah. Is there an optimal balance? You think if someone's spending those six hours, are they spending two on cardio and four on strength?

The science behind exercise is not that granular yet. I think outside the strength test, sit and reach that you kind of do your thing, whatever your hobby is, whether it's running or yoga or Pilates or whatever you do. I think it's just being active and consistently doing so.

I love that you keep bringing up sit and reach because we had the presidential fitness chest as a kid. And the sit and reach was the one that I could always, like I had good flexibility, but I could never do it on the pull-ups. I was never in whatever the top tier was. So now I'm trying to get back in shape when it comes to strength. I remember in sixth grade, I couldn't do a single pull-up and I was so embarrassed. Yeah.

I remember we had the rope climb. I definitely couldn't climb the rope. I don't know why that one stuck with me. What about just general everyday actions? I think we could talk about big things, adding six hours of exercise, completely changing your diet. And I know that some of the everyday things might not have the same power law effect, but are there things that people should be doing that are maybe easier, less impactful, but important, whether it's related to air or sunscreen or things like that?

I'll give an answer that is probably the most challenging. It's oftentimes much easier to do a positive thing than it is to stop a negative thing. I think it's why pills are so popular. To pop a pill to do something good for yourself is pretty easy. Throw it in the mouth, drink a water, you're good to go. Stopping a bad habit of eating too much food or eating too many sweets or whatever is

that's really hard. And so we tend to do more positive things than we do to take on the negative things. Sometimes we justify it like, well, since I'm doing all these positive things, I guess I'm going to treat myself because like I'm okay. And so it has this boomerang effect. I would say my suggestion would be to identify your single greatest vice and take that on. Because oftentimes the vice is a thing that creates a domino effect that ruins everything else.

So for someone that might be not sleeping, I have a friend who claims, and I refute his claims regularly, that he's totally fine sleeping three or four hours a night and he'll catch up on the weekend. For him, that would probably be that. It's like, don't worry about whether your diet's a little bit off. Tackle the big thing. Yeah, I think so. For me, it was overeating at 7 p.m. and specifically eating really bad foods. And so everyone has vices. I

I call this evening Brian, you know, and he was unstoppable. But I think if you really want to try to make meaningful change in your life, vices are a really great start. They're the hardest thing to do, but they're probably the biggest, most impactful. So I started asking for some of the easiest things and you went straight to the hardest thing. But there are a few things on your protocol that I think would be easy during all the

all the fires in the Bay Area. Everybody bought this air purifier in their house. And then everyone I know just put it in the garage once the fires went away. Air quality is something really important to you. Is that something important because you've already knocked off all the other things? It's a very easy thing. You buy it, you put it in your house, you change the filters.

You know, you pay for the incremental electricity and it can help. It is important. And I live in LA where the air quality is not great. So I have an air purifier in, I think every room in the house. And we have multiple sensors measuring the air quality at all times. I get monthly reports on the air quality. So yeah, it's pristine in the house.

And that matters. You've measured. Have you measured that it matters or do you just know that it matters? Yeah. The evidence of air quality is present. Yes. Do you ever get sick? Almost no. I got COVID in November of 2022. I got a cold over the break. My son had a cold. We traveled together and I caught his cold.

outside of those two instances i haven't been sick in three and a half years and do you think that's because you don't have as much exposure to lots of people and you've chosen to limit exposure or do you think that the entire protocol you're on has just made your body more able to fight off sickness when i was depressed and grinding on a startup and in a challenging relationship like in the toughest time of my life i felt sick almost all the time i always had something it felt like and

And it feels pretty amazing. I feel almost impervious and I'm out and about like I'm not sequestered in my home. I'm out in large events. I'm with large groups of people. So I don't take any precautions that are out of the norm to avoid that. I want to go back to what you said before about the future might come with more medical interventions. So for the most part, many of the things you're doing are

are changing behavior, changing what goes in your body. What are some of the other things? I know gene therapy is one thing, but what are some of the kind of future bigger changes that either you've experimented with, read about, or are excited about in the future? - Cell therapies are the most powerful. They carry some risks and they're getting better, but we're now to a point where we're acquiring the ability to reprogram our cellular processes. And that's where you can get into some really big games.

Currently, it's called, we're primarily working with the Yamanaka factors. One study that came out last month, they did this therapy in mice that were 124 weeks. They died 128 weeks. And doing this in this very, very late stage of life, they increased their lifespan by 109%. So even though it's the very tail end of their lives, the life improvement is significant. Therapies that are being developed are extremely promising for their effect size.

Like if you say, I'm going to eat well and exercise and not smoke, you may get a yield of 15 to 20 years of life. If you look at some of these other therapies, you may get in the range of 20, 30, 40, 50 years. We don't know. We'll have to see how the research. So they're becoming increasingly powerful and the ability to regenerate ourselves continually. And that's why I think if you look at the map of technologies being developed, you're

And then the intelligence that's working on the therapies to improve them is a different game than we've ever been in. That's why I'm so bullish on this area. Yeah. Someone today posed that AI could pretty quickly replace your doctor. And in a moment I was like, actually that makes total sense because AI

I messaged my doctor the other day and said, hey, here's three biomarkers that are out of whack. Should we talk about it? He's like, let's come in and talk about it. I was like, why do I even need you to talk about it? Why can't the internet and by the internet, I mean, why can't some model know all of my biomarkers, all of my history, all the research and just say, here's what you need to tackle.

And so this is perfect encapsulation. This is what I'm talking about. No human is going to be the steward of knowledge going forward. The computational systems we have will be so far superior reading all of your data and then looking at all the scientific evidence and then making specific suggestions for you.

It's so superior than any doctor ever will be. We've passed that point. So we as a species, we're now querying our intelligence about how to piece these things together. But that's just an intermediate phase. Soon the system is just going to do it for us. We're not going to have to query. And that's what I've done with Blueprint. I've basically said this algorithm is better at taking care of me than I can myself. It's better at measuring. It's better at looking at the data. It's better at making the suggestions. It's better at doing the iteration. It's better.

And so we know this from history, when technology exceeds human ability in doing a given thing, it doesn't matter what anyone's opinion is. We adopt it ferociously.

It's coming. It's here. It's imminent. And that's why I'm saying these ideas I express are not speculation. They're just following exactly what's happening in the world today. Like you just told me a story that represents what I'm trying to communicate. Now, if that's the case, like if that thing is doing it for you and that's no longer your responsibility, you're off to play another games in life. So what are we going to play? This protocol has told you, you stop eating at 11 a.m.

And maybe that's what I need for the last 15 points for my sleep score. You know, if you're having a good conversation with someone, you're going to stop it and go to bed before 9, 930, I think. There are things in your life you can't do that you used to love to do. You have urges. It's not like you're not human. I'm sure that if you walked by a bakery, you might be like, that would probably be pretty good. Are you happy now? Not doing all of those things. Never been happier in my entire life. It's not even comparable.

This is what is the most hilarious thing about this whole thing is I'm going to bed on time and eating well and exercising consistently. And what's the world's response is to put me on the stand and tell me I'm not happy.

It's hilarious. And so they're telling me that their lack of sleep and the debauchery is making their existence happier than mine. That I'm the one that needs to defend myself. And so that does not pass anyone's common sense. We all know when you're not sleeping and you're doing debauchery, you don't feel great. We all know this.

But yet we want to put someone else in the stand like myself because reconciling that those things truly are causing misery is very rough. It's very hard to do. So therefore, it's much easier to attack me and to want me to be miserable. Because if I'm happy, it means that what they're doing is making them sad. And if they're sad, they have to make change. And making change is hard. And so what I'm going to suggest is change is hard, but being miserable is harder. Poor sleep, debauchery, not exercising, that is misery. We all know it.

It seems so funny because testing out something like your protocol, going to bed early, eating a different diet, exercising, it's a reversible decision, right? Anyone who says, could I really be happy living that life? They don't have to commit to it for the rest of their life. They could commit to it for a month or two. Will they get to the same place you are in a month or two? No, but some of these vices that I'm like, would giving them up

really be a fulfilling life? If I didn't get to do X, Y, and Z, would I really be happy? I've had those thoughts in preparation even for this conversation. And then upon speaking, I just thought, well, I guess I could just try it, right? You say you're happiest you've ever been now. You started three years ago. How long into that process did it take to feel a level of happiness that was at least above where you were before?

I'll now deliver the truth thesis of this experiment. In early America with 13 colonies, they said, we think democracy is a better form of governance than this monarchy thing. The monarch makes bad decisions. It doesn't understand what's happening in the ground. We're better doing this ourselves.

They changed the structural processes of managing society. I did the same with myself. I said, my monarch, my mind makes bad decisions. It doesn't understand what's happening on the ground. So I changed the system of governance to say my organs and my body's in charge.

And I had to do that. I had to inquire them, how are you doing with all the data? That algorithm now runs. And so what I'm suggesting is our minds are not suitable for the modern world. We have just been surpassed by a superior form of intelligence. It is better at doing these things than we are ourselves. And so what I'm arguing is the mind is dead. Now, we can't see that because we think our mind's always the monarch and will always reign supreme. It

It's not. And we see this every day when we outsource something to a technology that's better than our minds, we willfully and gladly do that. So we already do this and we lean in technology that helps achieve our objectives. This is one of the final things to come over the threshold. And that's what I tried to demonstrate with Blueprint. This is inevitable. It's coming. And it's actually amazing. It's better than anything we could have otherwise. We're all going to love it. It just takes a little bit of time to get over the new idea.

If anyone was going to end this episode and think or journal for five minutes, is there a prompt you give them to think about? Or maybe alternatively, if they're about to have dinner with a family member or a spouse, a prompt for that conversation? So the thought experiment is if you had access to an algorithm that could give you the best physical, mental, spiritual health of your life, but in exchange for that, you needed to do what the algorithm said. Go to bed when it said, eat what it said. Would you do it? Yes or no?

Now, you must realize that the majority of people upon hearing this say no. I watched it happen. Almost every person. We had an incredibly accomplished group. There are 12 people there. Every single person was top of their field, extremely intelligent, articulate, and almost every person said no. They said no to the best physical, spiritual, and mental health of their life.

Why? They wanted freedom. They wanted their autonomy. And we got to the end of the dinner and we redid the poll. And what happened? I don't remember the exact number, but it was at least 50-50. It was like 90%. Yes. Okay. Okay. At that point, I was off in my own head trying to figure out what I was even thinking. So I might've missed the count. Yeah.

Our minds have been the best technology we've had to navigate existence. It no longer is. Our minds are our nemesis in so many ways. We all know this. It's not a secret.

we just don't talk about it because it's just like we're normalized to it and it's also pretty unpleasant to look at and so what i'm suggesting is as a species we are at the most interesting time in 4.5 billion years on this planet and if we can be sober enough to acknowledge this moment this future may be ours but we can blow it too and i just don't think that our minds as they're currently configured are the best pilots to navigate this future

That makes sense. A big takeaway is that if you optimized an algorithm to live longer and that algorithm didn't make you happy, the parts of your brain that make you happy, I have to believe are tied to the parts of your body that are not functioning optimally. So like it's one in the same a bit. And we even have to say this whole notion of happiness. We have to realize that's not a universal truth.

The only thing I'm willing to accept that I know in existence is that I don't want to die. Anything above that, I don't know if I know. Every possible hypothesis is a reflection of this moment in time. It's not a truth. This is suspending all things. It's the hardest thought experiment that a human can do. So if you're listening and you're struggling, I've been there. I encourage you to take this, think on it, talk with people, write about it. If people want to dig deeper, where can they go deeper?

Join don't die.brianjohnson.com. I'm standing the website up right now. So sign up for the newsletter. I want to build don't die endeavors around the world. So I want to work with people who want to build don't die in the

in the environment and in business and in international relations and in every aspect of society to build don't die endeavors like i've tried to build don't die for human health we need don't die for the planet we don't die for public safety we don't die for you know relationships so basically the objective of homo sapiens in the early 21st century is to eliminate death of every source

Well, people can check that out. Everything we talked about on Blueprint is also online. And I'm going to follow up after I get my biomarkers all back at the end of 90 days with everyone listening to share how my experience has gone as well. Can't wait to hear them myself. I want to hear everyone. So we have 5,000 people. Brian, thanks for joining me. Thanks for being here.

Wow, that was a really awesome conversation. And I intentionally didn't go down every single rabbit hole of Brian's blueprint protocol. So I've linked to all that in the show notes if you want to go deeper. I can't wait to give you all an update after I've been on his protocol for the full 90 days and gotten my updated biomarkers back.

Until then, please keep all your ideas for future topics for this show coming. I specifically asked about personal finance topics two weeks ago, and I got so many incredible ideas from you. Thank you so much. I will absolutely be turning many of them into future episodes. So in the spirit of today's episode on health and the broad category of life, if there are topics you're interested in, please send them to podcast at allthehacks.com. Thank you in advance. Thank you for joining me today. I will see you next week.