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cover of episode Elon Musk's polarizing ascent in the MAGA movement

Elon Musk's polarizing ascent in the MAGA movement

2025/2/27
logo of podcast Decoder with Nilay Patel

Decoder with Nilay Patel

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Alex Heath
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Gabby Del Valle
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Alex Heath: 我对Elon Musk和Donald Trump之间的关系以及它如何影响美国的右翼政治运动变化很感兴趣。CPAC是了解这一变化的绝佳场所。 我也想知道,鉴于许多CEO向特朗普示好,政府是否会对科技公司更加宽容。 Gabby Del Valle: CPAC是美国最大的保守派年会之一,但近年来其基调发生了显著变化,规模缩小,但参与者的热情不减。CPAC与会者对Elon Musk、Doge和科技监管的看法,与Bitcoin会议的与会者有些相似,但并不完全相同。Elon Musk在CPAC的出现非常引人注目,他挥舞着电锯,并谈论了Doge币从一个表情包变成现实货币的经历。CPAC的与会者同时喜爱Elon Musk、Donald Trump、Steve Bannon和J.D. Vance,他们对这些人物的评价很高,即使他们之间存在分歧。CPAC的演讲者,包括国际演讲者,都提到了Doge币和Elon Musk对政府的影响,以及对特朗普的支持。MAGA运动对科技的愿景是:打破大型科技公司的垄断,并认为大型科技公司是反民族主义和反民粹主义的。Steve Bannon对Elon Musk的态度复杂,既有批评也有支持,他的影响力可能正在下降,但他仍然对MAGA运动的底层支持者有影响力。CPAC是一个充满矛盾的地方,但这些矛盾并不重要,人们同时喜爱Elon Musk和Steve Bannon,即使他们之间存在分歧。很难定义CPAC的平均与会者,他们来自不同的群体,包括保守派老年人、特朗普支持者、1月6日事件参与者和年轻的保守派知识分子。MAGA运动是一个基于联盟的运动,它通过整合不同的群体来扩大其影响力,J.D. Vance的副总统候选人提名以及Elon Musk的参与,都体现了这种联盟的扩张。没有人公开批评Doge币,但有些人批评Elon Musk,甚至有人认为他是“披着羊皮的狼”。一些CPAC与会者对Neuralink和超人类主义感到恐惧,他们担心脑部植入芯片和意识上传云端。MAGA运动内部存在分歧,一部分人支持科技进步,另一部分人则担心科技进步会对人类造成负面影响,例如抢走工作机会。许多政府雇员被解雇或要求辞职,这与所谓的“DEI”无关,而是政府机构裁员的体现。我没有在CPAC看到Elon Musk裁员的负面影响,但在网上看到了一些例子,这似乎与Doge币的初衷不符。CPAC之后,我对MAGA群体的理解发生了变化,他们是由许多不同动机的人组成的联盟。特朗普之后,MAGA运动的未来存在不确定性,J.D. Vance是可能的接班人,但特朗普本人也暗示可能在2028年再次参选。特朗普能够团结MAGA运动内部的不同派别,掩盖其内部的矛盾,一旦他离开,这些矛盾可能会显现出来。Elon Musk的实际权力可能不如表面上看起来那么大,他的权力可能与特朗普对他的支持直接相关。只要Elon Musk和特朗普的关系良好,Elon Musk的权力就不会减弱。Elon Musk可能只被允许对特朗普不那么重视的机构采取行动,这可能是他们将此行为定义为打击政府浪费和清除政府中“觉醒”分子的方式。特朗普政府对科技行业的关注可能不如科技行业对特朗普政府的关注,特朗普更关心惩罚批评者和敌人。特朗普政府可能同时在多个方面采取行动,很难判断他们的优先级是什么,他们可能正在采取“泛滥成灾”的策略来压倒对手。 Elon Musk: (根据访谈内容推断,Elon Musk在CPAC的言论主要围绕着打破官僚主义,以及Doge币从meme到现实货币的转变。) Donald Trump: (根据访谈内容推断,Donald Trump在CPAC的言论中,可能对科技行业没有过多关注,更侧重于打击政治对手和巩固自身权力。) Steve Bannon: (根据访谈内容推断,Steve Bannon对Elon Musk持复杂态度,既有合作也有批评,他将大型科技公司定义为反民族主义和反民粹主义的势力。) J.D. Vance: (根据访谈内容推断,J.D. Vance在CPAC的言论中,可能更多地关注移民问题,以及对政府机构的改革。)

Deep Dive

Chapters
This chapter introduces the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) 2025, highlighting its smaller size compared to previous years but emphasizing the increased enthusiasm among attendees. Gabby Del Valle, a reporter who attended, describes the event and her experience.
  • CPAC 2025 was smaller than in previous years.
  • Attendee enthusiasm remained high.
  • The event is described as a blend of a Trump rally and a conservative conference.

Shownotes Transcript

This is Alex Heath, deputy editor of The Verge. I’m guest hosting today’s episode while Nilay is still away for a much-needed vacation. He’ll be back next week. But today, we’re diving into the bromance between Elon Musk and Donald Trump, and more specifically, how it’s impacting the changing right-wing political movement here in the United States. 

There’s no better place to get that temperature check than CPAC. Musk showed up there this year for a wild interview — you may have seen clips of him waving around a literal chainsaw. Thankfully, *Verge *policy Gaby del Valle was on the ground this year, and as you’ll hear her say, she barely slept. But she got a front-row look at how the world of MAGA really feels about Elon, DOGE, and regulating Big Tech. 

**Links: **

  • I cannot describe how strange Elon Musk’s CPAC appearance was | Verge)

  • At CPAC, the world’s populists parrot the leader who inspired them | Politico)

  • Government still threatening to ‘semi-fire’ workers who don’t answer Musk email | Verge)

  • Saying ‘no’ to Musk | NYT)

  • What that chainsaw was really about | NYT)

  • Sequins, merch, chainsaws: Trump’s return to CPAC | NYT)

  • Bannon calls Musk a ‘parasitic illegal immigrant’ | NYT)

  • New York got $80 Million for migrants. The White House took it back | NYT)

  • Federal technology staffers resign rather than help Musk and DOGE | AP)

  • National Park Service layoffs, hiring delays impact visitors | NPR

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

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